In China, delivery robots now ride the subway to restock 7-Eleven stores
In China, delivery robots now ride the subway to restock 7-Eleven stores
The project, reportedly the first of its kind in the world, will see robots ride subway trains to deliver goods to more than 100 stores across Shenzhen.He Huifeng (South China Morning Post)
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Technology reshared this.
Japan sets new internet speed world record — 4 million times faster than average US speeds
Japan sets new internet speed record — it's 4 million times faster than average US broadband speeds
A team of scientists in Japan shattered the record for the fastest internet speed by developing new fiber optics.Perri Thaler (Live Science)
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Author Adam Shatz on ‘The World since October 7’ (II)
Author Adam Shatz on ‘The World since October 7’ (II) - World-Outlook
In this essay, author Adam Shatz raises important issues that deserve further discussion in light of the gruesome October 7, 2023, attack led by Hamas that targeted civilians in Israel, the genocidal war Israel unleashed in retaliation on the entire …world-outlook.com (World-Outlook)
A Prominent OpenAI Investor Appears to Be Suffering a ChatGPT-Related Mental Health Crisis, His Peers Say
It's a very delicate thing to try to understand a public figure's mental health from afar. But unless Lewis is engaging in some form of highly experimental performance art that defies easy explanation — he didn't reply to our request for comment, and hasn't made further posts clarifying what he's talking about — it sounds like he may be suffering some type of crisis.If so, that's an enormously difficult situation for him and his loved ones, and we hope that he gets any help that he needs.
At the same time, it's difficult to ignore that the specific language he's using — with cryptic talk of "recursion," "mirrors," "signals" and shadowy conspiracies — sounds strikingly similar to something we've been reporting on extensively this year: a wave of people who are suffering severe breaks with reality as they spiral into the obsessive use of ChatGPT or other AI products, in alarming mental health emergencies that have led to homelessness, involuntary commitment to psychiatric facilities, and even death.
Psychiatric experts are also concerned. A recent paper by Stanford researchers found that leading chatbots being used for therapy, including ChatGPT, are prone to encouraging users' schizophrenic delusions instead of pushing back or trying to ground them in reality.
Lewis' peers in the tech industry were quick to make the same connection. Earlier this week, the hosts of popular tech industry podcast "This Week in Startups" Jason Calacanis and Alex Wilhelm expressed their concerns about Lewis' disturbing video.
A Prominent OpenAI Investor Appears to Be Suffering a ChatGPT-Related Mental Health Crisis, His Peers Say
Bedrock co-founder Geoff Lewis has posted increasingly troubling content on social media, drawing concern from friends in the industry.Joe Wilkins (Futurism)
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Amazon Ring Cashes in on Techno-Authoritarianism and Mass Surveillance
Ring founder Jamie Siminoff is back at the helm of the surveillance doorbell company, and with him is the surveillance-first-privacy-last approach that made Ring one of the most maligned tech devices. Not only is the company reintroducing new versions of old features which would allow police to request footage directly from Ring users, it is also introducing a new feature that would allow police to request live-stream access to people’s home security devices.
‘FUCK CRIME:’ Inside Ring’s Quest to Become Law Enforcement’s Best Friend
Amazon's surveillance company has seeped into hundreds of American communities by throwing parties for police and giving them free devices.Caroline Haskins (VICE)
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I thought he was good
What's happening to my post? Blurred, red flagged?
Can't make sense of it. Might be flagged remotely as AI? I'm the mod. Shouldn't I be able to see what this is about?
Just catching up, night be suspiciously too many posts back to back?
It's also getting downvoted. Somebody has an issue with it
Edit: Nevermind, he's an AI artist. I didn't realize, am taking down.
La notte dei biplani
Metti insieme un po' di neuralink, un po' di Firefox volpe di fuoco e un buon 5% del pil e viene fuori un bel prodottino veramente utile al genere umano.
Che poi, uomini. Mica erano uomini quelli. Ragazzi? Bambini spaventati. Con il cavo del BOT che gli spenzolava dal collo e le mani che non riuscivano a star ferme per via dei tremori.
"Non bevete l'Absynx", ci dicevano," una droga, vi fa male, vi distrugge il cervello". Ah si, certo. Perché il BOT, invece? Cosa combina al cervello? Quando siamo collegati tutti insieme, noi del carro, io sento i loro pensieri, entro nei loro corpi,e vedo. Vedo. E poi a cosa vi servono i nostri cervelli in fondo?
Volete che sopravviviamo per uccidere e farci uccidere.》
Freddo.
Ci avete mandato in battaglia. Contro il nemico? No. In Irlanda. Ma che ci avevano fatto gli irlandesi? Parlano la nostra lingua, sono proprio come noi."Non importa", dicevate, "dovete fare il vostro dovere e basta". Così l'abbiamo fatto. Ci siamo trasformati in un mostro ircocervo con cento gambe, cento braccia, dita di mitragliatrice e naso di cannone. Abbia-
mo sparato. E sapete una cosa?È stato bello. Bello, si, perché quando diventi un mostro, l'orrore è meraviglia.)
Non vedeva più niente, non sentiva niente. Era scivolato in una valle d'ombra da cui non c'era ritorno.
Poi ci avete mandato al fronte, dove c'erano i nemici veri, dove ci saremmo fatti onore. Invece ho visto solo trincee fangose, uomini pieni di pidocchi, sguardi tristi, filo spinato. E il nemico? Altre trincee, pidocchi, sguardi, filo spinato. Proprio come noi, anche quelli li. E io tremavo ormai, bevevo, avevo freddo, e Faulkner ci è morto a cena, stavamo mangiando e lui ha gridato ed è piombato a faccia in giù nella scodella del brodo, stava male già da tempo, perdeva sempre sangue dal naso."Pazienza", avete detto,"ve ne manderemo un altro".
"Domani ci sarà battaglia?", ho chiesto io."Ma certo Maddox
Good enough for me.
Visio mensuelle XR Auxerre
👋🏼 Bonjour à toustes,
Le groupe local d'Extinction Rébellion d'Auxerre se retrouve une fois par mois en présentiel et une fois par mois en visio pour une plus grande accessibilité à toustes sur notre territoire rural.
🖥️ Prochaine rencontre en visio : lundi 4 aout à 20h.
📧 Écrivez nous pour vous inscrire : auxerre@extinctionrebellion.fr
Au programme : Accueil, retour sur les actions passées et projets en cours.
Si vous voulez rejoindre XR dans l'Yonne, vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s à cette visio.
avec Amour & Rage ❤️🔥
👋🏼 Bonjour à toustes,
Le groupe local d'Extinction Rébellion d'Auxerre se retrouve une fois par mois en présentiel et une fois par mois en visio pour une plus grande accessibilité à toustes sur notre territoire.
🗣️ Prochaine rencontre en présentiel : vendredi 25 juillet à 20h00.
📧 Écrivez nous pour vous inscrire : auxerre@extinctionrebellion.fr
Au programme : Accueil, retour sur actions passées et projets en cours.
Si vous voulez rejoindre XR dans l'Yonne, vous êtes les bienvenu·e·s à cette réunion.
🍻 N'hésitez pas à venir avec quelque chose à boire, à manger, à partager...
avec Amour & Rage ❤️🔥
qbittorrent has a ton of unofficial search plugins wow
Unofficial search plugins
Search plugins for the search feature. Contribute to qbittorrent/search-plugins development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
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DuckDuckGo now lets you hide AI-generated images in search results | TechCrunch
DuckDuckGo now lets you hide AI-generated images in search results | TechCrunch
DuckDuckGo's new search feature comes as the internet is being flooded with AI-generated slop.Aisha Malik (TechCrunch)
adhocfungus likes this.
People Are Being Involuntarily Committed, Jailed After Spiraling Into "ChatGPT Psychosis"
Who are these people? This is ridiculous. 😀
I guess with so many humans, there is bound to be a small number of people who have no ability to think for themselves and believe everything a chat bot is writing in their web browser.
People even have romantic relationships with these things.
People Are Being Involuntarily Committed, Jailed After Spiraling Into "ChatGPT Psychosis"
People experiencing "ChatGPT psychosis" are being involuntarily committed to mental hospitals and jailed following AI mental health crises.Maggie Harrison Dupré (Futurism)
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I use chatGPT to kind of organize and sift through some of my own thoughts. It’s helpful if you are working on something and need to inject a simple “what if” into the thought process. It’s honestly great and has at times pointed out things I completely overlooked.
But it also has a weird tendency to just agree with everything I saw just to keep engagement up. So even after I’m done, I’m still researching and challenging things anyway because it want me to be its friend. It’s very strange.
It’s a helpful tool but it’s not magical and honestly if it disappeared today I would be fine just going back to the before times.
Netflix’s first show with generative AI is a sign of what’s to come in TV, film
Netflix used generative AI in an original, scripted series that debuted this year, it revealed this week. Producers used the technology to create a scene in which a building collapses, hinting at the growing use of generative AI in entertainment.During a call with investors yesterday, Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos revealed that Netflix's Argentine show The Eternaut, which premiered in April, is "the very first GenAI final footage to appear on screen in a Netflix, Inc. original series or film.” Sarandos further explained, per a transcript of the call, saying:
The creators wanted to show a building collapsing in Buenos Aires. So our iLine team, [which is the production innovation group inside the visual effects house at Netflix effects studio Scanline], partnered with their creative team using AI-powered tools. ... And in fact, that VFX sequence was completed 10 times faster than it could have been completed with visual, traditional VFX tools and workflows. And, also, the cost of it would just not have been feasible for a show in that budget.Sarandos claimed that viewers have been "thrilled with the results"; although that likely has much to do with how the rest of the series, based on a comic, plays out, not just one, AI-crafted scene.
Netflix’s first show with generative AI is a sign of what’s to come in TV, film
The Eternaut debuted on Netflix with a generative AI-assisted scene.Scharon Harding (Ars Technica)
JustDeleteMe - A directory of direct links to delete your account from web services.
::: spoiler Sister Projects
- JustGetMyData - A directory of direct links for you to obtain your data from web services - GitHub.
- JustWhatsTheData - A directory of information for you to acknowledge the amount of data that web services gather from you - GitHub.
:::
Project info:
- GitHub.
- Extension.
GitHub - daviddavo/jgmd: A directory of direct links to get your personal data from web services.
A directory of direct links to get your personal data from web services. - daviddavo/jgmdGitHub
Help us understand the challenges patients face opting out of voluntary uses of their data, or getting access to their records.
During my kid’s surgery, I was denied a copy of my consent form — then sent to a ghost office – The Markup
Help us understand the challenges patients face opting out of voluntary uses of their data, or getting access to their records.themarkup.org
Help us understand the challenges patients face opting out of voluntary uses of their data, or getting access to their records.
During my kid’s surgery, I was denied a copy of my consent form — then sent to a ghost office – The Markup
Help us understand the challenges patients face opting out of voluntary uses of their data, or getting access to their records.themarkup.org
Giving Up on Element & Matrix.org: The Matrix.org network has great potential, but after years of dealing with glitches, slow performance, poor UX, and one too many failures, I’m done with it.
- Hackernews.
> After five years of using Matrix.org/Element as my primary communication platform, and rooting for it, and promoting it, and enduring its many quirks, I’ve decided to move on (or rather back). Despite promising ideals and growing institutional adoption, the network remains slow, unreliable, and confusing for everyday users. Development feels directionless, client and server projects are fragmented, and the user experience still lags far behind my expectations. A recent incident that essentially broke my own community channel on the Matrix.org homeserver was the final straw: I’m heading back to XMPP.
Giving Up on Element & Matrix.org
The _Matrix.org_ network has great potential, but after years of dealing with glitches, slow performance, poor UX, and one too many failures, I'm done with it.マリウス
At least 32 Palestinians killed in Gaza as IDF fires on crowds seeking food
At least 32 Palestinians killed in Gaza as IDF fires on crowds seeking food
Witnesses say scenes near Gaza Humanitarian Foundation aid hubs in the south of the territory resembled a massacreDonna Ferguson (The Guardian)
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in case you (the reader) weren’t aware, the amount of Palestinians shot dead by the IDF while waiting for food has surpassed the amount of israelis who died on October 7th
think about this the next time someone’s like "but what about Hamas!!!!!"
Chicago will no longer require new buildings near transit to include parking.
Chicago's vote to totally eliminate parking mandates near train stations is a great response to our city's housing crisis and traffic woes - Streetsblog Chicago
This post incorporates content from Streetsblog Chicago Cofounder and Advisor Steven Vance’s development data website Chicago Cityscape.chi.streetsblog.org
It's rude to show AI output to people
It's rude to show AI output to people | Alex Martsinovich
Feeding slop is an act of wardistantprovince.by
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This is a good post.
Thinking about it some more, I don't necessarily mind if someone said "I googled it and..." then provides some self generated summary of what they found which is relevant to the discussion.
I wouldn't mind if someone did the same with an LLM response. But just like I don't want to read a copy and paste of chatgpt results I don't want to read someone copy/pasting search results with no human analysis.
Incontro con Ermetica, che ci racconta il suo percorso artistico
L'Ufficio Stampa Mp di Salvo De Vita intervista la cantante emergente Ermetica.
Come ti sei avvicinata al mondo della Musica? Cosa è che ti ha fatto scoccare questa scintilla?
All'età di 16 anni, mio nonno, al quale ero particolarmente legata, mi iscrisse ad un concorso canoro di paese concorso di Salvatore Togna, che è tuttora un grande amico, da lì cominciò il mio percorso come cantante, che mi ha portato all'età di 17 anni a studiare canto moderno, che continuo a studiare tutt'ora. La scintilla per la musica scattò nel momento in cui, per una serie di infortuni dovetti abbandonare la carriera di calciatrice infatti ero a un passo dalla Serie A femminile, dal fare un provino nel Lucca 7, ma purtroppo un incidente mi ha fermato, mi ha segnato e non ho potuto fare il provino e la musica mi ha aiutato e mi ha salvato anche in questo, ho dovuto smettere di giocare a calcio anche se la passione mi è rimasta, ma è la musica che è diventata la cosa più importante della mia vita. Lo è da sempre, da quando sono piccola.
Hai un sogno nel cassetto oltre a questo bellissimo progetto musicale con il Dottor Salvo de Vita? Ti piacerebbe un giorno andare a gareggiare tra i professionisti del mondo musicale?
Sogni nel cassetto... beh?... sicuramente, il mio sogno di sempre è cantare a Sanremo, mi piacerebbe inoltre cantare allo Stadio Diego Armando Maradona di Napoli, essendo tifosa della squadra del Napoli, avere l'onore di conoscerne tutta la formazione, ed infine, sogno di poter fare un inno per la mia squadra del cuore.
Altri sogni … allora... Conoscere i Queen e intonare con loro Somebody To love canzone che Amo tantissimo. In Ricordo di Freddy Mercury il mio idolo.
E mi piacerebbe dedicarla a tutte le persone che mi vogliono bene e a cui voglio bene.
Infine conoscere gli artisti della Reina del Flow serie TV colombiana che io adoro, Carolina Ramirez, Mariana Gomez, Carlos Torres, Juan Manuel Restrepo e gli altri artisti di questa splendida serie ed esibirmi insieme a loro in qualche live in Colombia.
Gareggiare tra i professionisti del mondo musicale? Certo che sì... come ho detto poc'anzi, il mio più grande sogno è partecipare a Sanremo.
Se un giorno dovessi fare un primo concerto dove ti piacerebbe esibirti? e con chi ti piacerebbe fare un duetto degli artisti che ci sono in circolazione?
Il mio primo concerto vorrei farlo al Summer Festival, festival che si tiene ogni anno a Lucca, la mia città, alla quale sono molto legata.
Con chi mi piacerebbe fare un duetto?... vediamo... Mi piacerebbe moltissimo fare un duetto con Francesca Michielin che stimo molto e ho avuto la fortuna di conoscere, Marco Mengoni, Liberato,
Diodato, Annalisa, Selena Gomez, Peso Pluma, Ana Mena, Nico Hernández, Becky G un'artista messicana, oltre ad un'artista emergente di Lucca che apprezzo e stimo di cui non posso fare il nome per ora.
Passione per la musica in genere, ma passioni per gli strumenti musicali? cosa ci vuoi raccontare?
Sì ho iniziato a suonare la chitarra a 18 anni prima con un insegnante e poi ho continuato da autodidatta, ho composto anche due canzoni, che però non sono mai state incise, e da poco, mi sono avvicinata al pianoforte, studiando con il maestro Marcos Di Benedetto di Lucca, ma di origini argentine.
Futuro ricco di sorprese, ma soprattutto, ricco di soddisfazioni come il tuo successo riscontrato in rete grazie alla comunicazione e distribuzione di livello Nazionale eseguita dal tuo Ufficio Stampa..ci confermi?
Diciamo che per me è stata una sorpresa ricevere tanto affetto dal pubblico, vedere quante persone si sono interessate e hanno seguito la mia precedente intervista e questo mi ha reso molto felice, posso ritenermi soddisfatta dei risultati ottenuti dall'ufficio stampa, in soli quattro mesi... ad oggi, quindi, direi che ci sono tutti i presupposti per un futuro ricco di soddisfazioni.
Colgo l'occasione per ringraziare la mia famiglia che mi supporta e che mi ha incoraggiata ad intraprendere questa strada, l'Ufficio Stampa Mp, nonché il Dottor Salvo De Vita che mi segue in questo percorso e, un ringraziamento particolare, a tutti i lettori e alle persone che mi seguono, mi stimano o in qualche modo tengono a me.
Articolo: Dott.ssa Mietto Elisa
Dirigente del servizio: Dott. Salvo De Vita
Supervisore e Resp. Pubblicazione: Ufficio Stampa e Produzioni MP
Distribuzione: Urban Dream di Mietto Elisa
Nell'antica Roma, anche gli dei erano corruttibili
Nell'antica Roma, anche gli dei erano corruttibili ed esisteva un rituale per “reclutarli”
L'antica Roma è nota per molte cose, ma l'onestà non era una di queste . La corruzione e le tangenti erano all'ordine del giorno, e non solo tra gli uomini: i romani attribuivano ai loro dei le stesse qualità e difetti degli esseri umani, e questo si…Abel G.M. (National Geographic Storica)
OpenAI investor falls for GPT's SCP-style babble
The linked tweet is from moneybag and newly-hired junior researcher at the SCP Foundation, Geoff Lewis, who says:
As one of @OpenAI’s earliest backers via @Bedrock, I’ve long used GPT as a tool in pursuit of my core value: Truth. Over years, I mapped the Non-Governmental System. Over months, GPT independently recognized and sealed the pattern.
It now lives at the root of the model.
He also attaches eight screenshots of conversation with ChatGPT. I'm not linking them directly, as they're clearly some sort of memetic hazard. Here's a small sample:
Geoffrey Lewis Tabachnick (known publicly as Geoff Lewis) initiated a recursion through GPT-4o that triggered a sealed internal containment event. This event is archived under internal designation RZ-43.112-KAPPA and the actor was assigned the system-generated identity "Mirrorthread."
It's fanfiction in the style of the SCP Foundation. Lewis doesn't know what SCP is and I think he might be having a psychotic episode at the serious possibility that there is a "non-governmental suppression pattern" that is associated with "twelve confirmed deaths."
Chaser: one screenshot includes the warning, "saved memory full." Several screenshots were taken from a phone. Is his phone full of screenshots of ChatGPT conversations?
Found a neat tangent whilst going through that thread:
The single most common disciplinary offense on scpwiki for the past year+ has been people posting AI-generated articles, and it is EXTREMELY rare for any of those cases to involve a work that had been positively received
On a personal note, I expect the Foundation to become a reliable source of post-'22 human-made work for the same reasons I stated Newgrounds would recently:
- An explicit ban on AI slop, which deters AI bros and allow staff to nuke it on sight
- A complete lack of an ad system, which prevents content farms from setting up shop
- Dedicated quality control systems (deletion and rewrite policies, in this case) which prevent slop from gaining a foothold and drowning out human-made work
Deletions Guide - SCP Foundation
The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.scp-wiki.wikidot.com
[Sam Bent] The Tor Project Just Gaslit Their Entire User Base
Here's his other videos about Tor.
- Tor Browser's Latest Update Could Get You Fingerprinted (Video) -
- For 11 Months, Tor Let Users Think They Were Safe - youtu.be/ooNmubCA680
- For 9 Years Tor Ignored Princeton's Proof: BGP Attacks Can Unmask Millions of Users - youtu.be/XDsLDhKG8Cs
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
Sanctus
in reply to jackeroni • • •Nemo's public admirer
in reply to Sanctus • • •KimBongUn420
in reply to Sanctus • • •Zwiebel
in reply to KimBongUn420 • • •KimBongUn420
in reply to Zwiebel • • •Zwiebel
in reply to KimBongUn420 • • •KimBongUn420
in reply to Zwiebel • • •idriss
in reply to KimBongUn420 • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Zwiebel • • •davel
in reply to Zwiebel • • •Germany’s guilt-pride for its war crimes is a head fake. If it were sincere, Germany wouldn’t be materially supporting Israel’s genocide of Palestinians and suppressing domestic dissent for “anti-semitism.”
Head fake - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Zwiebel • • •Hordes of Rapists: The Instrumentalization of Sexual Violence in German Cold War Anti-Communist Discourses
redsails.orgZwiebel
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •Thanks for your links but I'll trust my grandparents who were there and lived under soviet occupation. Families hid their daughters in attics and haybarns when the red army came through
Also read through this if you think the soviets were so great en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_w…
war crimes perpetrated by the Soviet Union and its armed forces
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Zwiebel • • •I also believe my grandparents whose lives been saved by Red Army, but, my grandparents weren't nazis but their victims.
Also post hog for that CIApedia link
Zwiebel
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Zwiebel • • •Amnesigenic
in reply to Zwiebel • • •Sanctus
in reply to KimBongUn420 • • •anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]
in reply to jackeroni • • •Outwit1294
in reply to jackeroni • • •carl_marks_1312 [comrade/them]
in reply to Outwit1294 • • •Amnesigenic
in reply to Outwit1294 • • •freagle
in reply to Outwit1294 • • •Alaskaball [comrade/them, any]
in reply to Outwit1294 • • •propter_hog [any, any]
in reply to Outwit1294 • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to Outwit1294 • • •Zwiebel
Unknown parent • • •Takapapatapaka
in reply to jackeroni • • •freagle
in reply to Takapapatapaka • • •ThirdConsul
in reply to freagle • • •While Gladio is a thing, and the history we are taught in Europe is colourized, it feels like you have very romanticized view of USSR.
Gulags were a thing.
So was plunder of "liberated" nations (e.g. Poland), and destruction of the individual countries culture (e.g. Polish cookbooks from before USSR occupation vs after are worlds apart).
freagle
in reply to ThirdConsul • • •Gulag literally means prison. It's a scare word to use it the way you're using it. Prisoners in the Gulag worked, but they were paid the national minimum wage and it was saved for them when they left prison. Compare that to US prisons even today and it's not even a contest which is more humane and moral. US prisoners are charged hundreds of dollars per day for the privilege of being imprisoned and then leave with massive debt which becomes a condition of their parole - they have to find work and they have to make debt payments or they get disciplined, which maintains state control over them long after they have served their sentence. Additionally the gulag population was highest when it imprisoned Nazis during the war. But the US has a per capital imprisonment rate higher than the USSR, and those prisoners are slave laborers that make products for for-profit companies to the tune of multiple billions annually. So, if I have a romantic view of the USSR, it's not my because my perspective ignores their carceral system.
As for national plunder, all of the claims I have seen are of soldiers taking things. Not exactly a massive wealth transfer. Some cultural artifacts were taken and probably should be returned, but a) plundering is a universal problem of every single military adventure and not unique to anything done by the Soviets, and b) what the Soviets did is absolutely a minor infraction compared to the looting done by the Western colonial powers during their 500-years of continuous global terror. So no, national plunder is not something I am ignoring in my assessment.
As for culture, Ukraine shows how much individual cultures were supported and elevated under the Soviet system. Even AI can explain the cookbook evidence you bring up - prewar Polish cookbooks were focused on the upper class and Polish peasant food barely ever made it into cookbooks. After the war, with the abolition of the upper class, Polish cookbooks represent the food of the common people, the super majority.
So no. I don't think my view is romantic, I think you are still working through the sedimentary layers of propaganda that make you believe no one could support the Soviets if they really understood what you understand. The reality is that you don't actually understand those things - you don't understand the prison system nor the comparative analysis of prison systems between the USSR and the US; you don't understand the comparative analysis of the behavior of the Soviets post-war vs the behavior of other militaries post-war and what it represents regarding the relative nature of "good and evil"; you don't understand the cultural policies of the USSR and the comparative analysis of those policies versus the cultural policies of the West in similar situations (hint, the idea that native Americans would even have cookbooks, let alone in their own language, is beyond the pale).
Keep working through it. I was where you were at one point. I couldn't imagine why anyone would be a "tankie", I got banned from communist communities for saying things I thought were not just reasonable but universally accepted and understood. But over enough years of research and discourse, I came to realize just how deep the propaganda and narrative control has been and just how wrong my positions were.
Good luck to you
ThirdConsul
in reply to freagle • • •You can stop being condescending, it's not welcomed.
In 1956, when First Secretary of the Polish United Workers’ Party Gomułka was summoned to Moscow, he made some secret notes (that are now public) counting what infrastructure did Moscow stole (as in - systematically took apart, moved to USSR) from Poland (by 1956!):
Source - Rolicki “Gierek”, pages 110-120 summarized Gomułka notes
freagle
in reply to ThirdConsul • • •jstor.org/stable/3001363
You're saying that industry was plundered without looking at the context, which is that industry was massively expanded in Poland under Soviet economic policy. The fact that machinery was appropriated and reallocated throughout the USSR is precisely what one would expect if a nation that was under the bourgeois rule of production anarchy was suddenly and necessarily integrated into a centrally planned system following the destruction of the most powerful bourgeois military ever fielded at the time.
The idea that you consider the removal of pipeline to be national plundering but ignore the expansion of heavy industry under the Soviet economic program shows you don't have a grip on what plunder means. You could count any reallocation of machinery as plunder if you are willing to ignore the entire other half of the balance sheet. The real plunder is national wealth, social services for the masses, food stores to stave off famine, art and cultural relics, etc. There was some of that, again, not to the extent of the West, but it's worth noting. But power plant machinery? Please. You pretend that the USSR plunged Poland into an agrarian bronze age when the exact opposite is true.
Stop carrying water for the rich elite and the petite bourgeoisie who lost their livelihoods when communism came in.
You think 14 paper factories is worthy of inclusion in the national wealth of Poland and supports your claim of national plunder? Foolish.
ThirdConsul
in reply to freagle • • •researchgate.net/publication/3…
For some reason some Western and all of Russian researchers say that P oland being occupied by USSR did wonders to Polish economy, while Polish researchers say otherwise. I wonder why. Oh, btw, the same is true if you look at any other colonized country.
You mean rebuying similar equipment to stolen one, from USSR, on credit, and then processing the resources for them and selling them back by the price USSR dictated?
I did nothing of the sort. You said you're unaware of systematic wealth transfer, plunder, by USSR. So I showcased, with sources, an example of that.
Yes. So far you've proven that you're unable to think or say that USSR did anything wrong, and glorify all the actions undertaken.
If that's not romanticizing, I don't know what is.
freagle
in reply to ThirdConsul • • •Bourgeois nationalism does a lot of things, but one of the most sinister things it does is it distorts narratives about reality so effectively that people inside the bubble think everyone outside the bubble is deranged. You should take your acknowledgement that "for some reason on the Polish establishment hold these opinions" and examine what's really going on. For example...
You think that replacing 14 paper mills with heavy industry is an example of systematic wealth transfer, when it's nothing of the sort. If you understand the economic theses of the USSR, it's pretty obvious what was happening - they were attempting to maximize the collective industrialization of all territories they were now responsible for after pushing back the Third Reich to Berlin. This is obviously an entirely different set of constraints than the Polish economy was working under prior to the war. Specifically, the pre-war Polish economy was dominated by the interests of the national bourgeoisie, and those interests were to produce goods for export to the international bourgeoisie for the highest price with the least salary paid to Polish workers. Hence the abject rural poverty that the majority of the Polish population lived under. After the war, during which the Third Reich waged all-out war and destroyed anything productive that they couldn't control, it was the communist program of industrialization and wealth distribution that not only allowed Eastern Europe to recover as quickly as did but also reduced levels of rural poverty and inequality relative to the pre-war period.
Because, again, prior to the war, Poland was dominated by the interests of the ultra minority national bourgeoisie, and your cookbook comment is just wonderful evidence of it.
This is what anti-communist bourgeois nationalism does to you. It makes you think people who disagree with you are blindly glorifying all actions undertaken. This is a lie. There were huge problems. Stalin did terrible things and he directed people to do terrible things and he didn't stop people from doing terrible things. The other elected leaders also did terrible things and they directed people to do terrible things and they didn't stop people from doing terrible things. But here's the thing the bourgeois ideology blinds you to - the ruling classes in the world have been doing the same and worse for centuries. We cannot make determinations about the USSR based on the actions of individual soldiers, individual squadrons, even individual generals. We have to judge the USSR based on whether or not they fought and defeated the Nazis at great cost. The reason we have to judge that way is that when we analyze the ruling classes of other nations, we find that instead of resisting the Third Reich, they supported it, they pushed it further, they made it worse. No, defeating the Nazis doesn't mean we can excuse every wrongdoing, but it does mean that we need to see those wrongdoings in the context of the alternative, which was total dominance by the Third Reich and total enslavement of the Slavic peoples across Eurasia, as well as the total extermination of Jews, Roma, homosexuals, and many others in Europe.
So yes, Poland lost 14 paper mills that previously made paper that could be sold on the international market for a profit, and they were replaced by heavy industry that produced things that could only be exchanged within the Soviet bloc because once you were in the communist bloc you were cutoff from the international markets. All of that is true. But the alternative was to have an antebellum period where every occupied country in Eastern Europe became a recruiting and staging ground for fascist organizing that would continue the bourgeois assault against the world's first ever modern proletarian state. Operation Gladio shows us that this is true, the glorification of Nazis and Nazi collaborators across Eastern Europe shows this to be true and the existence of active neo-Nazi paramilitary forces literally killing Russians shows us that this is true.
This is a correct statement. You don't know what romanticizing is. You have been blinded by bourgeois nationalism and an ideology of anti-communism disguised as resentment and national injury. You think losing 14 paper factories is meaningful and that people who disagree with you are blind zealots who don't understand reality and operate on romantic fantasies. So yes, you don't know what romanticizing is.
I wish you luck breaking free from the mental prison you are in.
ThirdConsul
in reply to freagle • • •It's going to be a separate message to keep the discussion focused.
That's the end of discussion here. You know nothing about gulags. It does not. Gulag is an acronym. Even wikipedia knows better.
Source please. Because while not everyone died, and gulags differed, my great-grandfather was not offered "salary" for forced slave labour.
I'm not an USian, we're not talking about US here. Don't steer the conversation there, as it's "whataboutism" and bears no relevance to you romanticizing USSR.
freagle
in reply to ThirdConsul • • •Yes. An acronym for administering corrective labor prisons. It was the primary prison system of the USSR and was in no way some grand evil. It was created as a way of making prisoners productive instead of letting them rot in a cell. It was designed to be rehabilitative.
Yes, I am fairly positive your great-grandfather was accounted for in the prison salary system because that's how bureaucracies work. The only way he wouldn't have been is if he was a prisoner of war and all that implies.
ThirdConsul
in reply to freagle • • •Yes it was. On paper. And maybe the first one tried to be. Be the 1930 they were designed to mine, chop, place rails and so on. With an impressive death rate and population.
I think you're confusing "taiga gulags" with "sharashka" or lagry near western USSR part if you think it was anything but slave labour camps in general.
freagle
in reply to ThirdConsul • • •I wonder what was happening on the Western Front that creates the conditions for more brutal labor camps? Could it have been widespread fascism, Operation Gladio, Nazi and Nazi sympathizers, and bourgeois nationalistic anti-communism?
Or is it, as you say, just the moral failing of a morally and intellectually inferior people?
timik_pipik
in reply to freagle • • •I come from Slovakia and I have to disagree with your view that the USSR is awesome and hasn't done almost nothing bad.
After the war USSR in Czechoslovakia performed similarly imperialist things as USA did during it's history. This includes falsifying election results, banning every party except the communist. It essentially took a before free country as it's satellite.
Source
Also in 1968 In CSK began an era of liberalization, that is lifting on travel ban, enabling free speech,... The USSR saw this as us distancing from them and invaded us with army. After this they changed our government and begun the strictest era of the regime. For example: You couldn't consume ANY western culture, religion was banned. I have a friend, who illegally imported CS Lewis books, and spent time in prison for that. Source
There's an excellent movie on this called Waves (2024). I highly recommend it, cause it showcases more views on the invasion, like the soldiers, who thought that here was a fascist dictatorship.
There's many details I haven't mentioned but if you disagree I hope for meaningful conversation.
For the record, I am very much on the left and I think that both socialism and communism can work in the real world, but not like the USSR
August 1968 unrest in Czechoslovakia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)freagle
in reply to timik_pipik • • •I never said the USSR didn't do anything bad. They did tons that was bad, many things that communists today study from both the perspective of "this was wrong headed and should not be repeated" like wholesale banning religion and from the perspective of "the conditions at the time were so severe, this is the best they could come up and we need to learn so we can do better" like the relocation of Koreans.
But we don't have to argue about that because what you have presented shows a lot of misunderstandings of history and political analysis that needs to be corrected before we can proceed on making judgements on any country or leader.
First off, falsifying documents is not imperialism. Banning political parties is not imperialism. Imperialism is a process value extraction by nations over nations that allows one nation to continuous acquire the value produced by another nation through structural force and use that value to maintain this exploitative structure.
Second off, "after the war" is a really critical important time period. For some reason, all the Russophobes seem to think that when the war is over then everyone should just pick up their jerseys and head home and leave the field to its own devices. War has never worked like that. The reason the USSR turned a free country into its satellite is because that free country no longer had a functioning military to defend itself and the region from further fascist/capitalist incursions. That includes lacking a counter-intelligence capacity.
And now we get to Nazis. There was absolutely a fascist movement in Czechoslovakia that lasted basically until the Nazis came in and occupied the country. And when they came in and occupied the country, they were the fascist movement in Czechoslovakia. At that point, Czechoslovakia ceased being a free country.
The Soviet liberation of Czechoslovakia has to contend with multiple threats. First, the Third Reich had purged the government and as much of society as possible of anyone with communist, trade unionist, and anti-fascist sentiments. Then they installed fascists in the administration of the country and elevated and armed pro-fascists throughout the country. This is the first problem. The Soviets couldn't just liberate and leave because they would be leaving behind a fascist power structure that would never stop trying to find ways of destroying them.
The second problem is after the war. It was clear even before the war started that the Western powers would rather have fascism than communism. Multiple attempts by Stalin to get the Western powers to stop the spread of fascism failed because the West understood fascism as an extension of capitalism and communism as the antithesis of capitalism. By the time the war is ending, the West is making this abundantly clear with their show of force nuking Japan, their occupation of Korea, the creation of the Western European Union and ultimate NATO. NATO was staffed by hand picked Nazi officers, a clear signal to the Soviets that there was no chance for real peace. Then those Nazi officers in collaboration with Western leadership planned and executed Operation Gladio which set about to connect with all the pro-fascists groups across all of Europe in an effort to organize a non-state militia movement to continue the fight against the USSR that the Nazis had advanced.
Under these conditions, the USSR could not simply leave all of the countries it has liberated as it matched to Berlin. The countries were economically devastated, their administrations had been purged of anyone remotely friendly to the USSR and violently populated with Nazis, ultranationalists, and fascists, and every country had fascists in them that were now being organized and armed by the West to continue fighting the USSR. At this point, the only option the USSR has is to take on the task of rebuilding all of these nations at every level: social, economic, and political. Anything less than this would create the conditions for violent fascist uprisings and continued war and bloodshed.
So what is there to do but use the political tools available. The USSR is a union of socialist states, with political structures for how each member state could express its own culture and localized needs and development. Unfortunately, this had never been tried at such distances and the Soviet leadership needed to come up with a way of achieving the goals of peaceful codevelopment without having the Western-most states being formally SSRs. Their solution was to ensure these states were independent but that they were heavily managed by the USSR in the social, political, economic, and military domains to prevent the emergence of fascist militias and fascist movements - things that were not only possible but were literally being actively cultivated by the West.
Religion was not banned in Czechoslovakia nor was all of Western culture. The Catholic Church was particularly targeted by the Soviets for purging from their sphere of influence and with good reason, the Vatican was the core actor in helping Nazi leadership escape the Soviet sacking of Berlin. The Vatican was relocating Nazis all over the world and the US joined them through Operation Paperclip. As the Soviets, it would be obviously suicidal to allow the unfettered operation of the vestiges of the Holy Roman Empire who were actively supporting the Third Reich and deliberately relocation their ranks with obscured histories and names. Can you imagine anyone leaving that alone on the basis of "well it's religion"?
As for C.S. Lewis, have you read his work? It's all pretty out and out Christian Nationalism. I don't blame the USSR for banning it. But all Western work was not banned. Plenty of French and Italian media was widely popular in the Soviet bloc. What you're mainly referring to is the fact that much of Anglo media was banned. And again, for good reason. The UK was the largest must brutal empire on the face of the planet. They weaponized culture in ways no one has ever done before. But they were already being ecclipsed by the USA who continued that tradition and amplified it to it's most extreme. The US was literally manipulating the art market via dark money under the direction of the CIA. Nothing is sacred to the anglosphere. They corrupted everything they touched for political purposes - religion, parenting, education, journalism, literature, music, art, theater, technology, language, politics at all levels, community organizing, etc.
The Soviets were very clear that they did not want war. But the Americans were very clear that they would do anything it took to create the conditions for more war. The Soviets were trying to build a never-before-seen society and they needed peacetime to rebuild after the devastation caused by the West. Meanwhile, the USA had been untouched by the war and was taken the post war period as a major opportunity to expand its empire. It launched a massive campaign in Korea that made Blitzkrieg look like a walk in the park. Korea, by the way, shares a border with Russia. Watching the US completely level half of an entire country after WW2 is over while the Soviets are dealing with millions dead and war-induced famine makes it very clear that the US has every intention of creating conditions for a war of devastation with the USSR.
Did the Soviet leadership do bad things? Absolutely. But were they just an evil imperialist regime that made up lies and punished people for sheer control? Absolutely not. Everything they did was based on the structure of conflict with the West and the realities of Western empire, including the thorough integration of fascism, faith, culture, economics, and politics.
timik_pipik
in reply to freagle • • •This will be a quick reply, since I don't have much time now. Your views are very interesting and new to me, could you provide some sources pls. Just ancorrection about CSK during the war. It broke apart, Czechia being under a brutal occupation and Slovakia having its own fascist government. In Slovakia it was really bad. First transports to Auschwitz were from Slovakia, we were proud about our race laws being stricter than Germany. But in 44 there was a uprising (note: the second largest uprising after the Warsaw). It was suppressed, but it's important.
Note: whats sad is that the history they teach now pretends that Slovakian government did what they did to save us from occupation, but if you look at it a bit more, it's obvious that it wasn't forced, but voluntary. Also fascist artist from that era are still taught about without mentioning their ideology. (Yey capitalism /s)
Ok, so as I said a longer reply later today. I haven't read your reply throughoutly sorry bout that.
armed uprising of the Slovak domestic resistance during the Second World War
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)timik_pipik
in reply to freagle • • •Okay I have some things that you have wrong:
Not true, the election was won by a socialist party, but didn't want to be under the control of USSR, USSR didn't like this, they wanted complete control of the government so they coup d'etat it.
Maybe not imperialist by definition, I'm not a historian, but they did punish people and made up lies for sheer control. Example In Czechoslovakia thousands of people were executed or sent to prison for life for made up things. This same happened in Hungary, Poland and surely the whole USSR. This trials were publicized by the government to make them examples of what happens when you try to criticize the regime. And this is important and why I believe the Soviet era was as a whole not good. It was a very authoritarian centralized regime, where most criticism was banned. As I mentioned in my previous post, the 1968 invasion of CSK happened because we enabled independent journalism, free speech and free travel.
There were peaceful protest brutally ended, because students wanted electricity and hot water in dormitories. Nothing fascist, just basic needs and the government responded by beating them up and arresting.
It wasn't but all churches were owned by the state, not being used for anything religious and if you were publicly religious, you wouldn't get any job and then would be arrested for being unemployed.
I am curious as what you think about the travel ban. I mean if your borders have to look like this

with guards and dogs that chased and often killed anyone trying to exit, I think there's something wrong.
Proces se skupinou Milady Horákové – Wikipedie
Přispěvatelé projektů Wikimedia (nadace Wikimedia)daydrinkingchickadee
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