30+ human rights groups demand universities dismantle surveillance & protect free speech
- Refuse to cooperate or share data with law enforcement agencies: Refuse to cooperate with local, state, and federal lawmakers, law enforcement agents, and immigration authorities seeking to surveil, detain, and deport students, faculty, or staff. This includes prohibiting university staff from voluntarily sharing campus community members’ personal data with law enforcement, especially data that can aid in the targeting of activists, like immigration status and records of disciplinary actions. This also includes discontinuing any default data sharing agreements with campus police and local police departments.
- Secure data with end-to-end encryption: Secure student, faculty, and staff data with the highest levels of protection, including end-to-end encryption. Mandate training for university staff on data security practices.
- Delete sensitive data: Purge any data collected on students, staff, and faculty that is not essential to the functioning of the university––including data that can be used to fuel the targeting of protesters, immigrants, journalists, and other vulnerable groups. Delete video footage and photos of campus protesters acquired through surveillance cameras and ID swipe records that identify student and staff movements across campus.
- Dismantle surveillance: Discontinue the use of invasive technologies that collect sensitive data. This includes tools and practices such as ID swipe tracking, social media monitoring, facial recognition tools, license plate readers, motion and heat sensors, WiFi vendors that collect people’s location data, and biometric online exam proctoring programs. The data amassed by these tools may be weaponized by local, state, and federal agencies to target activists, immigrants, journalists, and other vulnerable groups on campus.
- Reject mask restriction policies: Mask restrictions fundamentally threaten free speech and increase the criminalization of protestors. These policies also jeopardize the safety of the entire campus community by exposing people to the ongoing threats of COVID, Long COVID, and other public health issues. Universities must oppose proposed restrictions on masking, and retain COVID safety policies that allow students to remain masked.
- Harm reduction related to doxxing: Provide campus community members with information about data deletion services (i.e. services that remove personal data and other information from data broker databases) and educational resources that allow students, staff, and faculty to proactively protect themselves against doxxing. Also provide tools and services to mitigate harm once doxxing occurs.
Letter: 30+ human rights groups demand universities dismantle surveillance & protect free speech
Dear university administrators and trustees, We are human rights organizations writing to express concerns about campus surveillance tools and policies that have the potential to fuel attacks on free expression and academic freedom across the country…Fight for the Future
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IBM and NASA Release Open-Source AI Model on Hugging Face to Predict Solar Weather
NASA, IBM’s ‘Hot’ New AI Model Unlocks Secrets of Sun
Editor's Note: This article was updated Aug. 20, 2025, to correct the number of years of training data used and the model accuracy. The original article saidDerek Koehl (NASA Science)
new Star Trek Voyager videogame: Across the Unknown
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Re: new Star Trek Voyager videogame: Across the Unknown
If we're seeing the wind down of new Star Trek shows but a resurgence of games, I am totally on board for this
Star Trek Armada reboot please 😁
The Steam page has a description:
Star Trek Voyager: Across the Unknown is a story-driven survival strategy game in which the fate of the iconic starship is in your hands. Take the helm, manage the ship and resources, and make difficult decisions. Will you be able to bring home the ship and its crew?“What if?” Scenarios
Did you ever wonder what would have happened had Captain Janeway decided differently? If an important crew member had followed a different path? Or what the outcome would have been had the crew of the U.S.S. Voyager embraced Borg technology to increase their chances of survival?
Wonder no more: Star Trek Voyager: Across the Unknown allows players to take control and shape the journey of the U.S.S. Voyager as they want. Take a risky approach or play it safe. Be diplomatic or let phasers do the talking. Research technologies that were shunned by the crew. But: Be prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions! The game features rogue-like elements, so in each run you will encounter different situations and even iconic characters might meet an early end if you don’t react accordingly.
Deep Ship Management and Research
After being moved forcefully into the Delta Quadrant, the U.S.S. Voyager ends up heavily damaged and in dire need of repairs as well as internal reconstruction. Restore destroyed rooms, secure life support and energy supplies, and start constructing. Ship systems, crew quarters, industrial and research facilities: You must decide what to build and when, to ensure the ship has what it needs for the perilous journey.
Expedite research into different fields. New technologies and improved layouts will not only strengthen the ship but also boost your crew’s morale. Exotic and dangerous research, like the technology of the Borg, is also within your reach. As captain, will you embrace it for the potential it offers, or will you omit it for the dangers it presents?
Exploration and Resource Acquisition
The dangers and opportunities of the Delta Quadrant beckon to be discovered by you and your crew. Scan celestial bodies to locate precious resources that fuel your journey. Find points of interest and oddities along your way, but beware: While the Delta Quadrant may reward the bold, it punishes the careless just as quickly. As captain, you have the final say in plotting a course and defining an approach.
Ship Combat and Away Missions
The journey of the U.S.S. Voyager would not be possible without both combat between ships and away missions to planets or space facilities.
For away missions, put together a team based on the individual talents of your crew. A team with skills that complement each other might be best suited for the task, but it is up to you to call the shots. Minimize the risk for the team’s members, rush headlong into danger, or take a scientific approach - you decide.
When diplomacy fails, the U.S.S. Voyager and its crew are ready to enter ship combat at your command. From the bridge, you give commands for offensive and defensive maneuvers, targeting enemy ship systems and using special weaponry. And even during ship combat, the individual skills of your crew members come into play: Assign battle stations to crew who bring precious skills to the table and trigger them in crucial moments to maximize your combat effectiveness.
Features
”What if?” scenario and storytelling: The ultimate platform to play out your course of action during the iconic journey of the U.S.S. Voyager.
Complex ship management: Repair, construct, and maintain an efficient and habitable ship to ensure systems and crew operate effectively.
Exploration and decision making: The Delta Quadrant is a fascinating yet perilous place that awaits exploration and demands decisive action.
Combat and away missions: Use the talents of your crew smartly to minimize risk during away missions as well as strike boldly during ship combat encounters.
My takeaway? This time, Tuvix lives.
Star Trek™: Voyager® - Across the Unknown on Steam
Star Trek Voyager: Across the Unknown is a story-driven survival strategy game in which the fate of the iconic starship is in your hands. Take the helm, manage the ship and resources, and make difficult decisions.store.steampowered.com
Re: new Star Trek Voyager videogame: Across the Unknown
I enjoyed Elite Force, but it's more actiony than I want my Trek games to be. My favorites have always been the ones that try to put you into an episode—Judgment Rites, ST: 25th Anniversary, A Final Unity, and Resurgence. I think the adventure genre is a much better match with the franchise than strategy or action.
Sadly(for me), that doesn't seem to be the direction they're going with this Voyager game. Hopefully it turns out well, though.
Re: new Star Trek Voyager videogame: Across the Unknown
oh gosh judgement rites... the fact they built a full on 2D dogfight simulator in that game was epic.
I got good enough at it that I could shoot down Trelane.
Spoiler alert — it didn't matter, he stranded you on the planet anyway.
It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes
It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes | Defector
It’s not AI winter just yet, though there is a distinct chill in the air. Meta is shaking up and downsizing its artificial intelligence division.defector.com
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That's a great question! I'll be happy to help you count the lights. I see five lights.
Here are a few ways you can improve indoor lighting:
That's a great question! I'll be happy to help you count the lights. I see five lights.
This symbolizes the fact that for the last five hundred years white people have been victims of genocide in South Africa.
Would you like to learn more?
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
My math teachers always told me that "math is not an opinion".
I'd like to see them now defending that!
Microsoft announces new Chief Accuracy Officer, Jack Handey
Mr. Handey has released a statement:
Instead of having "answers" on a math test, they should just call them "impressions," and if you got a different "impression," so what, can't we all be brothers?
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
-Jack Handy
Oh shit, I always thought it was a fictional name that the writers used for the random stuff that come up during the writing process. Didn't know it was a real person!
Holy shit, he created Toonces!
Handey is also credited with creating Toonces the Driving Cat, the cat who could drive a car, although not very well.
This has completely changed everything I ever held dear and holy.
I always thought handy was a Hartman character and was him reading.
To find out it was neither Hartman's character nor his voice is .... everything was a lie.
"Hmm. I wonder. I was thinking of dancing trees. Now I'm wondering what's next. Screaming trees. Yeah. That's got to be the answer. Screaming trees." - private notes by Hans Reiser, filesystem designer and a convicted murderer
(OK, that's a fake quote. This one is real:)
"Trees have their roots pointing up. And if you cut a tree apart, you get a forest. No, I'm not drunk." - one of my computer science profs, on data structures
even then the number was actually stored correctly, it's just excel lies to you and shows you a different number.
This AI will stack wrong calculations on top of wrong calculations and cascade everything.
ITT: people who didn’t read the article.
Excel is still doing the calculations, not the AI. The AI is helping to write functions. You can easily spot check a couple examples then apply that same formula down the column. I don’t really see the issue.
Of all the things to shove AI into, the first thing that came to my mind years back was Excel. It’s handy when I’m presented a spreadsheet of data at work and I just want to do something like “write a function to extract just the number from a column containing data formatted like LPF_PHASE_OF_CARE [PAF 304001]” because I just want to copy paste all the numbers somewhere. It’s trivial to verify it works correctly, I can examine the formula, and I don’t have to wade through numerous shitty Excel tutorial websites to try and teach myself something I’ll use once or twice a year.
Quick shitpost images I share with friends and Excel functions are where I get the most utility out of AI, which in general I think sucks and is massively overhyped.
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Well, the article is covering the disclaimer, which is vague enough to mean pretty much whatever.
I can buy that he is taking it to the level of if it can't directly be used for the stuff in the disclaimer, well, what could it be used for then? Crafting formulas seems to be a possibility, especially since the spreadsheet formula language is kind of esoteric and clumsy to read and write. It 'should' be up an LLM alley, a relatively limited grammar that's kind of a pain for a human to work with, but easy enough to get right in theory for an LLM. LLM is sometimes useful for script/programming but the vocabulary and complexity can easily get away from it, but excel formula are less likely to have programming level complexity or arbitrarily many methods to invoke. You of course have to eyeball the formula to see if it looks right, and if it does screw up the cell parameters, that might be a hard thing to catch by eyeballing for most people.
If it didn’t use 100 gallons of freshwater and like 600kW of definitely-non-renewable-sourced electricity then ML trained to excel at Excel would be most welcome.
Does it run locally?
Excel is still doing the calculations, not the AI. The AI is helping to write functions.
This distinction is immaterial. This is like a big child grabbing a smaller child's hand and slapping them with their own hand saying "quit hitting yourself". It's like trying to get out of a speeding ticket by saying all you did was push the accelerator... Truely it was the fuel injectors forcing the vehicle to an illegal speed.
Just because you've adjusted the abstraction layer at which you've ceded deterministic outcomes, doesn't mean AI isn't doing it.
You can easily spot check a couple examples then apply that same formula down the column.
This may be appropriate in some scenarios, specifically:
- When accuracy isn't important
- When you will never need to justify what is being done to anyone (including yourself)
This, however, covers a decidedly small portion of professional work done using Excel.
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This is totally expected and also absolutely peanuts compared to Intel, who once released a processor that managed to perform floating point long division incorrectly in fascinating (if you're the right type of nerd) and subtle ways. Hands up everyone who remembers that debacle!
Nobody? Just me?
Anyway, I totally had — and probably still have, somewhere — one of the affected chips. You could check if yours was one of the flawed ones literally by using the Windows calculator.
I remember too, buddy. It's important to never forget.
Edit: oh, I guess it's important to forget.
A lot of people are fine with getting wrong answers about shit they don't know already. That's what gets spread in social media and what was used for a large portion of the training data and what is available when AI does a web search.
It presents something that looks right, that is what most people care about.
This is only one study, but I saw an article a few months ago talking about a study by a major phone company that found that the vast majority of people (80% or more IIRC) either didn't care about AI features on their phones or actively disliked them.
I think most people don't really care one way or another but hate that it's being shoved into everything, and those who know the stats on how often it's wrong are a lot more likely to actively dislike it and be vocal about their dislike.
That sounds quite possible, AI features on phones/OSs go mostly unused –according to my study, which has a sample of size who the hell knows and a methodology of I feel–.
But llms I think, although burning money, are quite accepted by the people who touch them, and do not understand what is actually going on or don't care if the thing is wrong often.
I sometimes use llms, but only to burn thru monkey work that I can fast and easily review and do if the result is too shity. But that is the extention of my ai use.
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Man, all those saps that started studying AI thinking it was necessary are in for a rude awakening.
I'd almost feel bad for them, if they weren't so eager to follow the memes while making the digital space worse for all of us.
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Somewhat off-topic, but that’s the first time in a long time I’ve read a random article on the internet and just instantly liked the writer’s writing style without respect to the topic.
That was a depressing article, but a very enjoyable read.
G/O Media fires Deadspin's Barry Petchesky for not sticking to sports
After a memo telling Deadspin to "stick to sports," and after Deadspin didn't do that, G/O Media fired Deadspin deputy editor Barry Petchesky.Andrew Bucholtz (Awful Announcing)
I also enjoyed their writing.
Nvidia, currently propping up the market like a load-bearing matchstick
Loved this 😂
Price Tag for Trump’s D.C. Military Surge: At Least $1 Million a Day
::: spoiler Disable JavaScript to Access.
1. Open Chrome Settings: Click the three-dot menu (Customize and control Google Chrome) in the top-right corner and select "Settings".
2. Navigate to Site Settings: Go to "Privacy and security" and then click on "Site settings".
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Price Tag for Trump’s D.C. Military Surge: At Least $1 Million a Day
An analysis conducted for the Intercept found that the militarization of D.C. could end up costing hundreds of millions.Nick Turse (The Intercept)
Apple wants to bring Touch ID to its watches starting next year
Apple wants to bring Touch ID to its watches starting next year
It would make payments more secure and more hassle-free. According to a new report purportedly based on internal Apple developer code, the company is...Vlad (GSMArena)
Apple's Greed Is Finally Backfiring
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
Apple's Greed Is Finally Backfiring
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
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Honestly, the downfall of Apple would be good news in my book.
I know Google is not the greatest about it, but at least on Android, you can install third party app stores and custom operating systems.
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I would rather have Linux phones, but while those exist, they are not mainstream and ready quite yet.
So, custom Android, such as Lineage or Graphene, is about the closest we can get for now.
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They've just been deprecated to doing it the same way that every other custom operating system has been doing it for a long time. It makes it slower, but it doesn't make it impossible.
If these were seats on a plane, they got bumped from first class down to coach at the very back. They'll still get there. They just won't have the nice leg room and the extra peanuts.
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I've been using an iPhone for the past 6 months or so, an older iPhone 12 Pro my wife used until she upgraded to the 16 Pro. I can't say too many bad things about the os itself, since it feels like a walled garden android and the software quality is actually worse on IPhone, but it might be the aging chip on it.
I can't wait to go back to Android though, because of all the reasons you mentioned.
Good news would be them strategically repositioning in favor of their mid-90s image. Would be hard, but doable.
Green energy, autonomous devices, openness to tinkering, friendliness, "other companies mess with you and we don't", perhaps some retrofuturism. It wouldn't even be out of character, they sort of hold the window open, with the kind of series on AppleTV they are making, and part of their advertising, and even honestly with their devices being not yet as enshittified.
Just do that for real.
And honestly, Apple is not the worst of these companies. Perhaps they were just worse at baiting.
In general, over years I'm slowly becoming more and more appreciative of Apple. Their advertising is just atrocious and their stuff is very expensive in, eh, pretty outrageous ways (like a charger costing like some devices together with their chargers), but that's pretty open and honest. "We sell you that for our humongous price, we say it's miraculous and magically cool, and it seems like a scam, but you can say no". While with Google and Meta and such they first sell you something looking normal, and then farm and abuse you indefinitely.
So I'd wish for Apple to survive the bubble bursting (for which I hope they don't go the AI way) and become a more general-kind computing company. Maybe hold closer to 50% of personal computing in the world, not the luxury niche they are holding now.
All these tech giants have their own area where they are the absolute worst, and other areas where they're not as bad as some of the others.
Apple sucks on app store restrictions, but on the desktop OS, the respect user privacy more than Google and MS do. Google is the absolute worst on ads, tracking and using search to leverage their monopoly, but they've also made a ton of cool stuff, including Android. MS makes the worst piece of shit OS and forces everybody to use it while they make it worse, but I'm sure there's also something they do right.
but they’ve also made a ton of cool stuff, including Android.
Symbian and Maemo were better.
Also Nokia was the only non-US company of these.
Yes.
I'm not watching a fucking YouTube video.
No judgment if that's your thing. I just don't enjoy it.
The very tl;dr is that Apple has been catering to shareholders first and foremost to the point that all else suffers. To elaborate a lil more:
The video shows an internal email from the iPhone VP of marketing that basically says they should only add features that are good enough and that what the iPhone already offers could be considered too much. “ Anything new and especially expensive needs to be a rigorously challenged before it’s allowed into the consumer phone”
Then there’s the thing where Cook allows stock buybacks which Jobs didn’t. I am not sure what this means exactly but it plays into the broader point that Jobs was a product genius and Cook is a financial genius. (also, they spent $77 billion on stock buybacks, this will be relevant in a second).
Lastly there is AI. Apple is lacking in AI chips so there was a request to double their amount, which would’ve cost about $10bn. But this request was denied. So they had to not just work with their own aging chips, but rent cloud computing infrastructure from Google.
tl;dr Cook is cooked or something idk
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Ah, but with the definition having multiple meanings then can easily make that call.
the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction
So all those things posted online like “food porn,” “travel porn,” etc can be classified as pornography because now we have a definition that isn’t necessarily sexual.
It’s bullshit, but they can still make it the definition used to make their case about why it’s “bad.” GOP is good at using broad strokes to paint their evil.
Similarly, libs hated guns so much, they let the fucking COPS have the right to arbitrarily deny you a gun permit* under so called "may issue" laws.
Yea no fuck that lol. They would just let white people have guns and non-whites seeking a gun for self-defence will be denied because "they look suspicious"
You can never trust the police. Arm yourselved, form a well-regulated militia to protect your community.
*"may issue" laws were in effect in many Democratic jurisdictions until 2022, when, ironically, the fascists on the supreme court struck them down.
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It's this one, although I can't find the original, only the reaction to it.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
Klobuchar will just use this as another rallying cry to tear down Section 230 and make the internet even worse. You can read it yourself, but earlier this year she tried to use a 19 year old ODing on fentanyl he bought off Snapchat as a reason to "... get rid of or reform section 230 ..."
Not sure how that's going to stop people from ODing on adulterated narcotics, but maybe supporting harm reduction and mental health services would be a better use of my tax payer money.
klobuchar.senate.gov/public/in…
Klobuchar Urges Action at Senate Judiciary Hearing on Fentanyl Epidemic Featuring Minnesota Mom’s Testimony
WATCH KLOBUCHAR QUESTIONS HERE WASHINGTON – At today’s Senate Judiciary hearing on the fentanyl epidemic, U.S.U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar
A hidden network handles chats for OnlyFans stars. AI could soon take over: Impersonators for OnlyFans models said their sales quotas are soaring, and once AI improves, they could be out of work.
- Tech companies are automating parts of the OnlyFans universe, which until recently was powered by cheap labor.
- AI chatbots are trained on the chat logs of Filipino “chatters,” who impersonate OnlyFans models while messaging with fans.
- AI-generated images of the models are so realistic they cannot be distinguished from photographs.
AI threatens jobs of Filipinos running DMs for OnlyFans creators - Rest of World
Filipino workers posing as OnlyFans creators say sales quotas are rising and AI could soon replace them.Munira Mutaher (Rest of World)
AI at the World’s Biggest Games Event(Gamescom) Booked Random Meetings for Attendees
cross-posted from: programming.dev/post/36027977
Source: freelance product and UX designer Robiny-Yann Storm on Bluesky.
Source: Chris Schilling, the editorial director of Lost In Cult on Bluesky.
Source: Developer JC Lau on Bluesky.
Source: Henry Stockdale, a senior editor at UploadVR, on Bluesky.
AI at the World’s Biggest Games Event(Gamescom) Booked Random Meetings for Attendees
Source: freelance product and UX designer Robiny-Yann Storm on Bluesky.
Source: Chris Schilling, the editorial director of Lost In Cult on Bluesky.
Source: Developer JC Lau on Bluesky.
Source: Henry Stockdale, a senior editor at UploadVR, on Bluesky.
Source: Graham Day, a Twitch partner on X/Twitter.
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A network of nearly 90 TikTok accounts has been using AI to create fake versions of Spanish-language journalists and spread falsehoods online
What's behind the TikTok accounts using AI-generated versions of real Latino journalists?
The accounts point to the challenge of stopping or controlling the surge in fake images and misinformation targeting Spanish-speakers in the U.S., as AI technology advances.Nicole Acevedo (NBC News)
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Meta Quest 3/3s XR headsets finally rooted after 2 years
Meta XR headsets are very cheap for the performance they give. Unfortunately they require a Meta account and one can assume as much data as legally possibly is sent back to the advertising company.
For years now, since the Quest 1, those Android devices have not been rooted except for some specific version number of the Quest 2.
This recent work github.com/FreeXR/eureka_panth… makes the latest headset with a rather recent update (but NOT the very last ones, so be cautious!) rootable.
GitHub - FreeXR/eureka_panther-adreno-gpu-exploit-1: Our first exploit: a memory corruption vulnerability in the Adreno GPU driver for Eureka/Panther (3/3s) devices, enabling arbitrary kernel memory read/write and privilege escalation.
Our first exploit: a memory corruption vulnerability in the Adreno GPU driver for Eureka/Panther (3/3s) devices, enabling arbitrary kernel memory read/write and privilege escalation. - FreeXR/eurek...GitHub
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VR Gear & GPUs
Hardware # NVIDIA WIRED VR ISSUES: Nvidia proprietary drivers currently have a number of critical issues with DRM lease causing substantial presentation latency for wired VR headsets, or making DRM lease impossible, resulting in discomfort or breakag…Linux VR Adventures Wiki
Well I would ask you to reconsider reconsidering. It's a very neat technical fear, arguably even an important one... but you would be giving money to Meta. So unless you really have to, because you work in the domain, maybe try to recycle a 2nd hand headset for a cheaper price and tinker with it as much as you want? Maybe even contribute to the rooting process by finding ways to remove the Meta account requirement altogether?
TL:DR: nobody needs a XR headset but if you do and you want to get a Meta one, get it 2nd hand.
High probability of it being a loss leader with its specs. So if you were to buy and root it they'll definitely lose money.
However, the bootloader unlock process is still quite dangerous so you might end up with an expensive paper weight.
I have a Quest 1 which I still use everyday because it gives me a set exercise regime. Sideloaded a bunch of free indie titles that get me moving and it's worth it.
That seems to be a huge factor in terms of continued usage: Do you use it for regular exercise. Most people who stick with VR seem to get some exercise related quality of life out of the technology.
Yesssssss!
Using root on META Quest 3/3S is very dangerous SINGLE CHANGE IN THE BOOTLOADER PARTITION WILL RESULT IN A HARD BRICK AND MAKE YOUR DEVICE UNUSABLE!!! requiring one to unsolder the UFS chip and reprogramming it with external (and expensive) hardware. Reflashing the device via EDL is impossible due to Meta refusing to provide the users the cryptographical keys needed to authentificate secure boot on QFPROM implemetation.
Ehhhhh.... Maybe I'll wait a bit...
Actually, those steps are the ones necessary to recover from a hard brick (re: the device is unusable because you did something you shouldn't have as root).
The actual process to root the device is simply running a few adb commands (so a prereq is having Developer Mode enabled).
Once you have ran the exploit, your root escalation is temporary until the device is rebooted or you take additional steps to persists your root privileges (thus, potentially leading you towards a hard brick).
source: The docs
Getting Started
Our first exploit: a memory corruption vulnerability in the Adreno GPU driver for Eureka/Panther (3/3s) devices, enabling arbitrary kernel memory read/write and privilege escalation. - FreeXR/eurek...GitHub
Actually, those steps are the ones necessary to recover from a hard brick (re: the device is unusable because you did something you shouldn't have as root).
I get that; the whole reason I want to root it is to FAFO tho. So I'll wait until the worst I could do is need to factory reset it. lol
It is indeed a risk AND you must pin your current OS version, so no new update including no new feature (not sure which one one would need for now though) but more importantly no security updates.
That being said... if you do not actively try to mess it up, i.e. doing precisely what has been warned against NOT doing, it should be safe.
In doubt, if you can't afford another headset, have no actual need for rooting and have never done that before, definitely safer to wait.
Recommendations
- Valve Index but it's not standalone. It's "just" a headset so what you do with it is up to you, no need to register anything with Valve, nor have Steam (even though SteamVR is convenient) and works on Linux. With Proton even the latest indie VR games work. IMHO also Half-life: Alyx is in itself worth it.
- Lynx-XR1 that can already be rooted lynx.miraheze.org/wiki/Rooting… (which I did few months ago) but arguably their customization of Android isn't as convenient as what Meta did. For tinkerers though and if you can actually get one, it's great. Also no account required.
There are others, e.g. simulavr.com/ which is standalone and Linux proper (not Android), but I haven't tried so I can't vouch for them.
... makes the latest headset with a rather recent update (but NOT the very last ones, so be cautious!) rootable.
Any ideas which version(s) are susceptible? I couldn't find it mentioned.
- Quest 3: v79 5115411.12900.520 (August 7, 2025) and below, to about version v71.
- Quest 3S: v79 117688.9900.610 (August 6, 2025) and below, to about version v71.
according to github.com/zhuowei/cheese/tree…
GitHub - zhuowei/cheese: CVE-2025-21479 proof-of-concept, I think
CVE-2025-21479 proof-of-concept, I think. Contribute to zhuowei/cheese development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
Thank you for finding that.
I got lucky, I bought a quest around July/August and needed to do the mandatory/initial OS install.
I ended up with v78 (August 3, 2025) release.
I didn't realize there was a WiP announced in July 2025.
Quest 3 Rooting
i want to root quest 3, and there isin't a lot of discussion on it. Therefore, i've created a discord server where we can talk about these stuff {Mod edit: References to Discord removed! Oswald...ilovecats4606 (XDA Forums)
The Era of 'AI Psychosis' is Here. Are You a Possible Victim?
The Era of 'AI Psychosis' is Here. Are You a Possible Victim?
Psychologists have been sounding the alarm for months.Ece Yildirim (Gizmodo)
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Technology reshared this.
With how so many services are forcing it upon us, I'd have to disagree.
It's also getting to be a bit of a chore to block AI elements on all the various websites implementing them, and a few of the worst offenders (Google is one that I know does this) add a random string of characters on the element that serve as a unique identifier that periodically changes and so requires me to readd them to my UBO blocklist. On each device...
It is the most effective solution for sure, though.
With how so many services are forcing it upon us, I'd have to disagree.
Maybe we need to add a term for anti-AI psychosis. Like an equivalent of ‘going postal’?
and a few of the worst offenders (Google is one that I know does this) add a random string of characters on the element that serve as a unique identifier that periodically changes and so requires me to readd them to my UBO blocklist.
Does ubo accept css selectors? Css has syntax for "match element that starts with, ends with, or contains, this string"
developer.mozilla.org/en-US/do…
Attribute selectors
The CSS attribute selector matches elements based on the element having a given attribute explicitly set, with options for defining an attribute value or substring value match.developer.mozilla.org
The American Psychological Association met with the FTC in February to urge regulators to address the use of AI chatbots as unlicensed therapists.
Protect our ~~revenue~~, er patients!
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might be entitled to compensation, for all the money you spent.
ouija board lied to me
I knew from the moment I deeply interacted with AI that this would be an issue. It's wild and AI is bar far the coolest invention since the Internet. It's a philosophers dream. It's a playground for your brain! It's a sparring partner for your thoughts and ideas to stress test them.
Having said that I can easily see so some losing their grip depending on how they are interacting with it.
Seriously, using something devoid of thought as "a sparring partner for your thoughts" seems to me like it's a serious entry point to losing one's grip.
Especially since the behaviour of those machines is steered by large corporations whose only goal is to get your ressources, be it money, skill or attention.
The only other thing that fascinated me more in regards to AI and psychosis that can develop .....is the phenomenon of people not liking AI simply for the sake of not liking it.
I get it, I'm a hipster too, but when people purposely decide to morph into Will Smith from I Robot for no reason....it's just silly 🙄
Quasarr Hostnames
So I'm trying to setup Quasarr (direct downloader for sonarr+radarr) but I'm not sure what hostnames to use.
I added some from the suggested pastebin but most of them serve German content and I haven't heard of any of these websites (new to DDL)
Can anyone help me setup some good English sources? Or at least tell me what the rest of the abbreviations mean?
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Just look and figure it out. It’s really straightforward name matching. You don’t need someone to spell everything out to you, if you make a mistake just try something different. You can do it!
OPs_cops_post.html ass post. “Please explicitly tell me what illegal websites these initials refer to!” Guaranteed you are British 100% because only British cops would be stupid enough to do this.
Ddl is gonna be mainly stuff for poor Europeans who are scared of getting caught sharing files and are relying on the “loophole” of “I never actually shared the file, the file was shared with me and that’s substantively different” (it’s not, they’re just using it as an excuse to haul you in for some other reason or frame you for something).
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Well at least your username is fitting...
Im gonna be blunt, this dude wanted to learn how to use something that interests them. Getting slapped with 'just figure it out' and some unsavory comments about where you think they're from is a surefire way to kill someone's interest in ever interacting with a community.
Do better for fucks sake
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My response: you can figure it out! Just try a little! Don’t ask such cop ass questions, also ddl is the realm of non-English stuff.
You: unsavory!
Just looked into this a bit. While I don't know exactly what each one corresponds to, I did find that pastebin has some lists of urls you can use.
This one has English and German-> the comments should differentiate what's what. Hope this helps!
Quasarr Hostnames English German Latest - Pastebin.com
Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.Pastebin
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How Tea’s Founder Convinced Millions of Women to Spill Their Secrets, Then Exposed Them to the World [404 Media]
How Tea’s Founder Convinced Millions of Women to Spill Their Secrets, Then Exposed Them to the World
On March 16, 2023, Paola Sanchez, the founder and administrator of Are We Dating the Same Guy?, a collection of Facebook groups where women share “red flags” about men, received a message from Christianne Burns, then fiancée of Tea CEO and founder Sean Cook.“We have an app ready to go called ‘Tea - Women’s Dating Community’, that could be a perfect transition for the ‘Are we dating the same guy’ facebook groups since it sounds like those are on their way under… Tea has all the safety measures that Facebook lacked and more to ensure that only women are in the group,” Burns said. “We are looking for a face and founder of the app and because of your experience, we think YOU will be the perfect person! This can be your thing and we are happy to take a step back and let you lead all operations of the product.”
The Tea app, much like the Are We Dating the Same Guy Facebook groups, invites women to join and share red flags about men to help other women avoid them. In order to verify that every person who joined the Tea app was a woman, Tea asked users to upload a picture of their ID or their face. Tea was founded in 2022 but largely flew under the radar until July this year, when it reached the top of the Apple App Store chart, earned glowing coverage in the media, and claimed it had more than 1.6 million users.
Burns’ offer to make Sanchez the “face” of Tea wasn't the first time she had reached out to her, but Sanchez never replied to Burns, despite multiple attempts to recruit her. As it turned out, Tea did not have all the “safety measures” it needed to keep women safe. As 404 Media first reported, Tea users’ images, identifying information, and more than a million private conversations, including some about cheating partners and abortions, were compromised in two separate security breaches in late July. The first of these breaches was immediately abused by a community of misogynists on 4chan to humiliate women whose information was compromised.
A 404 Media investigation now reveals that after Tea failed to recruit Sanchez as the face of the app and adopt the Are We Dating the Same Guy community, Tea shifted tactics to raid those Facebook groups for users. Tea paid influencers to undermine Are We Dating the Same Guy and created competing Facebook groups with nearly identical names. 404 Media also identified a number of seemingly hijacked Facebook accounts that spammed the real Are We Dating The Same Guy groups with links to Tea app.
404 Media’s investigation also discovered a third security breach which exposed the personal data of women who were paid to promote the app.
“Since first creating these [Are We Dating The Same Guy] groups, I have avoided speaking to the media as much as possible because these groups require discretion and privacy in order to operate safely and best protect our members,” Sanchez told 404 Media. “However, recent events have led me to decide to share some concerning practices I’ve witnessed, including messages I received in the past that appear to contradict some of the information currently being presented as fact.”
Burns is no longer with Cook or involved with Tea, and she did not respond to multiple requests for comment. But messages from Burns to Sanchez show that Cook changed his story about why he created Tea after they broke up. 404 Media also talked to a former Tea employee who said she only knew Burns as “Tara,” a persona that also exists in the Tea app and on Facebook as an official representative of the Tea app. This employee said that when Burns left the company, Cook took over the persona and communicated with other Tea users as if he was Tara.
Overall, our reporting shows that while Cook said he built Tea to “protect women,” he repeatedly put them at risk and tried to replace a grassroots movement started by a woman who declined to help him. As one woman who worked for him at Tea told us: “his [Cook’s] motive is money, not actually to protect people.”
Tea did not directly answer a list of specific questions regarding 404 Media’s findings and the facts presented in this article. Instead, it sent us the following statement:
“Building and scaling an app to meet the demand we’ve seen is a complex process. Along the way, we’ve collaborated with many, learned a great deal and continue to improve Tea,” a Tea spokesperson said. “What we know, based on the fact that over 7 million women now use Tea, with over 100,000 new sign ups per day, is that a platform to help women navigate the challenges of online dating has been needed for far too long. As one of the top apps in the U.S. App Store, we are proud of what we’ve built, and know that our mission is more urgent than ever. We remain committed to evolving Tea to meet the needs of our growing community every day.”
How Tea Tried to Recruit a Female “Face” for the App
Sanchez started the first Are We Dating The Same Guy Facebook group in 2022 after her terrible experiences dating. The basic premise—a space for women to share information about men with other women—has existed in various forms before, but Are We Dating The Same Guy quickly became an online phenomenon. Today, Are We Dating The Same Guy is comprised of more than 200 different Facebook groups dedicated to different cities across the U.S. and Canada and has more than 7 million members. The groups have many volunteer moderators, but Sanchez is still the administrator for most of them.Women in the groups, who can also post anonymously, share a wide range of experiences, from relatively benign complaints about men they didn’t like, to serious accusations of infidelity and physical assault.
The popularity of Are We Dating The Same Guy groups is evidence that its members find them useful, but that popularity has come with a cost. Sanchez has become increasingly cautious after several attempts at retaliation from disgruntled men who are organizing on Telegram to dox women in the group and at least one lawsuit. In that case, a man accused Are We Dating The Same Guy of libel after a user in the Chicago group called him “clingy” and a “psycho.” Sanchez also said she had a rock thrown through the window of her family’s home by a man who wanted to stop Are We Dating The Same Guy, that she pays for a service to wipe her personal information from the internet, and that she generally keeps a low profile. This is the first time she has talked to the press.
By the time she was first approached by Burns in October, 2022, Sanchez was suspicious of Tea’s interest in Are We Dating The Same Guy because of some of the negative attention the groups already got.
“I’m a huge fan of all the work you're doing and I think it will have an ENORMOUS and important benefit on the lives of women,” Burns said in a Facebook message to Sanchez on October 25, 2022. At the time, Burns’ Facebook profile picture was a photo of her and Cook smiling. “My fiance and I have been working on a similar project due to my own dating woes and thought you’d be the perfect person to collaborate with on it.”
This is an entirely different origin story than the one Cook tells about Tea today. On Linkedin, Tea’s site, and interviews, Cook says that he “launched Tea after witnessing his mother’s terrifying experience with online dating—not only being catfished but unknowingly engaging with men who had criminal records.”
Before starting Tea, Cook worked at a couple of tech companies in San Francisco, including Salesforce, where he held a “director” title and rapped and made songs about Salesforce products during presentations he shared on Linkedin.
0:00
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1×A video Sean Cook uploaded to Linkedin
There is no mention of Burns on the Tea site, but in 2022 she persistently asked Sanchez to join Tea.
In addition to messaging her on Patreon and Facebook, on December 2, Burns sent Sanchez $25 on Venmo along with a message thanking Sanchez for her work. “Sent you a PM on Facebook re: Business collab when you get a chance! 😊” On December 7, 2022 Burns sent Sanchez $15 on buymeacoffee.com along with a message about a “business opportunity,” and “an app with a similar concept to the facebook groups you manage that I would love to collaborate with you on!”
In April2023, after Sanchez didn’t respond to Tea’s requests, Are We Dating The Same Guy group admins started banning a set of Facebook accounts posting links to the Tea app over and over again. For example, Are We Dating The Same Guy moderators banned one Facebook user named Crystal Lee from 25 groups across the country after the account repeatedly encouraged members to use Tea and suggested that information about the men they’re asking about was available there. Lee’s account was clearly hijacked from a woman with a different name sometime around 2016. While the account name is Crystal Lee, the name in the URL for her page is Kimberly Ritchart. I found Richart’s new Facebook account, where her first post in 2016 says she lost access to her original account. 404 Media couldn’t confirm who was in control of the account, and saw no evidence that Tea was behind it, but activity from similarly hijacked accounts indicate that there was an organized effort to stealthily promote the Tea app in the Are We Dating The Same Guy groups.
Two other Facebook accounts, Norma Warner and Morgan Ward, were banned from 23 groups and five groups respectively for spamming Tea app promotions. Warner and Ward also shared identical replies two weeks apart. “If I remember correctly, I think he’s been posted to Tea. I maybe [sic] mistaking him for someone else but looks pretty familiar,” both replies said in response to different posts in different groups.
Veronica Marz told me she was hired in April 2024 to be Tea’s partnerships manager. Her job was to manage the affiliate program that would pay people $1 per user who signed up to Tea via their unique affiliate link. She also moderated a number of groups named “Are We Dating the Same Guy | Tea App” for different cities, which were started by and owned by the Tea app and could obviously confuse Facebook users. Marz also reached out to admins of the real Are We Dating The Same Guy groups to ask if they’d be willing to join the affiliate program.While reporting this story, 404 Media discovered that Tea’s data about the affiliate program, including who signed up for it, their real name, how much they have been paid, their emails, phone numbers, Venmo accounts, and charities they wanted to donate to if they didn’t want the money, were left exposed online. All a hacker or other third party had to do to view all of this data was add “/admin” to the public Tea affiliate site’s URL. Tea turned off this site and the affiliate program entirely after 404 Media reached out for comment for this article on August 13.
On December 1, 2024, Marz noticed an account named Nicole Li who was spamming Tea app promotions in one of the Facebook groups she managed for Tea as part of her job. Li was not part of the affiliate program that Marz managed, and unbeknownst to Marz, moderators of the original Are We Dating The Same Guy groups would eventually ban the Li account later. At that point, Marz was reporting directly to Cook, and she flagged the account to him because it was suspicious and spamming several groups at the same time.
“Sean uses that account to communicate directly with users on the app, but people think they are speaking to someone actually named Tara."
“Just wanted to check and see if this person was working with the Tea app?,” Marz said in a text to Cook along with a screenshot of the account seen by 404 Media. “I’ve noticed that they’ve joined all the groups regardless of location and they’ve been promoting the app, but they aren’t a part of the affiliate program that I saw.”Cook replied: “Not sure what’s going on there but as long as they’re not bothering anyone, I guess let’s just let them do their thing!”
All of the Facebook accounts that spammed Tea promotions were either deactivated or did not respond to our request for comment. None of the accounts were officially part of Tea’s affiliate program, according to the exposed data.
404 Media has seen several messages from Are We Dating the Same Guy Facebook group members and moderators confused about whether the Tea app was the official Are We Dating The Same Guy app, and whether Sanchez was affiliated with it. Several people also wondered if the Tara persona, which reached out to them on Facebook, was associated with Tea or if Sanchez was behind it. One review of the Tea app on the Google Play Store from January, 2024 also seemed confused and disappointed by the app.
“A girl in a FB group referred me (I think she was actually advertising 🤷),” the review said. “She called it a free app. It’s not free [...] The fb groups should have raised MORE THAN ENOUGH to cover app costs that are referred to in other reviews [...] I find this gross. Maybe I’ll come around or be back, but for now I’ll stick with fb.”
Marz also told me that several users in the Tea-owned Facebook groups were confused, and thought that they were in the original Are We Dating The Same Guy groups owned by Sanchez.“Maybe five to seven people in different groups asked me about Paola Sanchez, and I had to explain to them, like, ‘Hey, this is not Paola’s group. This group is owned by the Tea app,’” she told me. “I had to explain to them the difference between the two.”
Tea’s promotion strategy clearly managed to poach and confuse some members of the Are We Dating The Same Guy community and get them to join the app. Later, its strategy was to undermine Are We Dating The Same Guy directly.
Today, Tea’s website credits an influencer named Daniella Szetela as helping to widely promote Tea: “One day while scrolling, Sean discovered a viral creator, Daniella, whose content resonated with millions of women—and saw an opportunity to bring that same energy to Tea. What began as a simple idea quickly turned into a social media movement.” The site says Cook was so impressed with her voice and following, he made her “Head of Socials.” A March, 2025 archive of the same page on Tea’s site tells the same story, but at the time Szetela’s title was “Chief Female Officer.”
“Together, Sean and Daniella have transformed Tea into more than an app—it’s a movement,” Tea’s site says.
In September 2024 Tea started posting videos to its official TikTok and Instagram accounts named @TheTeaPartyGirls. Some of the videos are of Szetela showing the app and talking about how great it is. Other videos are made to look like they’re coming from other Tea users, but in reality are produced by a company called SG Social Branding, which describes itself as a “Gen Z Creator Powerhouse Delivering Short Form Videos to be used for YOUR Brand’s Paid Social Ads.” According to its site, SG Social Branding has a team of “over 35 gen Z creators” who create videos for clients. These videos are made in the the style of common social media posts, like an influencer talking directly to the camera, doing man on the street interviews, or videos that look like they are clips from podcasts, but are from podcasts that don’t actually exist.
On a “case studies” page for Tea on the SG Social Branding website, the company says that Tea’s “ask” was to “Develop the narrative that Tea is the go to for Women who like to stay safe while dating.”
“We deployed creators for street interviews in locations such as NYC during daytime and the Nightlife scene on college campuses. Additionally, we made entertaining podcast clips of girl talk that is truly un-scrollable,” the case studies page says. Under “results” it says “The TEA app went #1 in the app store on July 23rd, 2025 and is now viral! Videos deployed from SGSB creators crossed over 3.4 million views with over 74k shares and rising.”
In these videos, the influencers don’t only promote Tea and talk about it as if they actually found information on it about men they know, they also repeatedly disparage Are We Dating The Same Guy Facebook groups.
“Instead of using that Facebook group Are We Dating the Same Guy, what girls are doing now because it’s so much easier is they’re downloading Tea,” a woman holding a microphone says as if she’s talking to someone off-camera. The text overlaid on the video says “Tea Party Pod.” The woman, Savannah Isabella, is an influencer who works for SG Social Branding. She goes on to talk about how one of her friends found a guy she was seeing there and all the red flags other women have posted about him. “Miss me with that. Boy bye. And it’s so much easier and faster than that Facebook group.”
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A post shared by Tea - Dating Safety App for Women (@theteapartygirls)
In another video, Isabella is at a bar, demoing the Tea app. “Girls, forget about Are We Dating The Same Guy,” she says.Isabella and SG Social Branding did not respond to a request for comment.
Marz told me that she was hired to Tea by a woman named Tara and that initially she only communicated with Tara. Marz did a Zoom interview with Tara before she started to work for Tea and the woman identified herself as Tara over text and email. In November 2024, Marz said that Tara left the company, at which point she started reporting directly to Cook. When I showed Marz a photograph of Christianne Burns, Cook’s then fiancée, she said that was who she knew as Tara, who first interviewed her over Zoom.
After "Tara" left, Marz said Sean took over the “Tara Tea” account which was used to communicate with Tea users in the app and on Facebook.
“Sean uses that account to communicate directly with users on the app, but people think they are speaking to someone actually named Tara,” she told me. Essentially, a man is posing as a woman to an audience of women who are trying to protect themselves from, at best, deceptive men.
How Tea Deleted Posts About Men
Tori Benitez has a private consulting business for victims of domestic violence who are in Family Court for high conflict divorces or custody battles. She told me she joined the Tea app because it promoted digital safety, talking about abusers, and protecting people by letting them share information anonymously.“I'm in the dating scene and on dating apps, and have had my own experience, so I first joined as a user, and then I saw them post that they needed help with escalation claims,” she told me. The escalation claims were complaints both from men about what women were posting about them in the app as well as complaints from other users. She thought her experience as a paralegal would be useful, and she could use more remote work, so she sent Tea her information.
“I had a Zoom call with Sean, and he wanted to know not only a little bit about my business and how I help people, but I had to tell my own personal story.” Benitez said. “I had an ex who literally threatened to kill me and told me how he was going to kill me, even after a restraining order. My story is deep and scary, and he kind of interrupted me and started crying. And I was like, ‘Oh, are you okay?’ Looking back, shouldn't I have been the one crying? It's kind of weird.”
Benitez said she took the job because she wanted to help women. During the interview and at several points while working for Tea, Benitez said that Cook wanted to make her consulting business part of Tea. Benitez said Cook floated having a tab in the Tea app that would send women to her consulting business if they needed help, or having her run workshops for users.
“I feel like his [Cook’s] motive is money, not actually to protect people, and I think that his story about his mom is a crock of shit.”
Benitez started working in April of this year but said the job wasn’t what she expected because it made no use of her experience as a paralegal. She said the work was more like customer support, and mainly had her filtering through complaints, responding to them according to a strict script she was given, and keeping a record of the responses.If a complaint contained words like “defamation” or seemed legally threatening, she would find the post in question and the user who posted it. At times she would contact the user and ask them if the post was true and if they had any evidence to prove it. Sometimes users would respond and say the accusations were true, and the post would remain. Sometimes the users also provided supporting evidence, like court documents. Sometimes the users would delete the posts themselves, or Tea would delete the posts if the users didn’t respond to Benitez’s questions after a certain amount of time.
“That's when things would get deleted and literally no longer exist on there,” she said. “Nobody could find them. They did not go into an archive. They are just poof gone.”
She would record all the complaints and responses in a spreadsheet for Tea’s internal records, but said it didn’t always make sense when Tea decided to delete a public post on the Tea app vs when it decided to leave one up. In one interview in May, 2025, Cook said the Tea app receives “three legal threats a day from men,” and that Tea has a full legal team that helps it manage those situations.
Benitez said that in one case, Cook told her he would handle a complaint from a man regarding what was said about him on the app himself because Cook knew the man personally.
“He [Cook] seemed to side with or randomly choose to delete things that just didn't make sense and felt really concerning to me,” she said. “But I felt I had no room to complain, because every time I brought up a concern his response was either ‘ignore it,’ or ‘I will handle it,’ and there's no HR, so it's not like I can go anywhere to say all this stuff's happening. I didn't have any other point of contact other than him.”
Benitez also said she raised concerns about users’ behavior on the app. She said that at some point earlier this year Tea went viral in one town in Louisiana, where Tea users started going after each other and the number of complaints exploded.
“There was a lot of fighting in the comments between users. There were a lot of threats between users. It just turned into a chat room,” she said. “They would be fighting each other. Like, ‘Where are you at? I’ll pull up on you.’ I was like, ‘holy shit.’ There would be racist posts. It just started getting bad, and I mentioned that to him [Cook] as well, and I basically got the answer of let them say whatever they want. And like this whole like, you know, ‘It's free speech.’ I thought this was about protecting people,” Benitez recalled.
In May, Benitez said Cook was late to pay her. When she asked about it, Cook said he didn’t have the money, and asked her to keep working until he did, or work for less pay. At that point, Benitez said she wouldn’t work until she got paid for the work she already did. Eventually Cook sent her the money for the hours she already worked, but Benitez never came back.
There are currently two class action lawsuits in motion against Tea accusing the company of failing to properly secure users’ private information. After these complaints were filed Tea updated its terms of service, which now require users to waive their right to participate in class actions against the company, and agree to attempt an “informal dispute resolution” before suing the company.
“I feel like his [Cook’s] motive is money, not actually to protect people,” Benitez said, “and I think that his story about his mom is a crock of shit.”
Tea’s Security Breaches Put Users at Risk
On July 25, 404 Media broke the news that Tea made an error that completely exposed a database containing at least 72,000 thousand images from its users, and that a misogynistic 4chan community downloaded them and shared them online in various forms in order to harass and humiliate women. On July 28, 404 Media revealed an even worse security breach to Tea, which exposed more than a million private messages between Tea users that included identifying information and intimate conversations about cheating partners and abortions.After the first hack, someone created a website modeled after “Facemash,” the site that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg infamously created while he was a student at Harvard to rank the attractiveness of female students at the university. This new site, based on Tea data, took the selfies women uploaded to Tea in order to verify they are women, presented them to visitors in pairs, and allowed them to choose which they believed was more attractive. The site used the votes to create a ranking and also highlighted the list of the 50 most and least attractive women according to votes.
The second breach was far more dangerous not only because the direct messages between Tea users that were exposed included conversations they thought were private about sensitive subjects that could become dangerous in the wrong hands, but also because those conversations included details that could be used to deanonymize users. Direct messages between users often included their real phone numbers, names, and social media handles.
“I posted on the app about a man who groomed and abused me as a minor,” one Tea user whose direct messages were exposed in the second security breach told 404 Media. The user asked to be anonymous because she’s heard about “incel dudes” doxing Tea users. “I joined Tea because I appreciated the premise of a ‘whisper network’ for community safety—because a huge amount of men are, in fact, unsafe individuals, and most of the time those impacted don't find out until it's too late.”
This user added that they felt safe enough to share intimate details on Tea because it was advertised as a “safe space” for women with a strong emphasis on anonymity.
“My reaction to the breach is anger, just anger, and some disgust,” the user said.
Kasra Rahjerdi, the researcher who flagged the second security breach to 404 Media, said there were signs he wasn’t the only person who may have accessed more than a million of private Tea messages. Every Tea user is assigned a unique API key which allows them to interface with the app in order to log in, read public posts, share posts, or do other actions in the app. Rahjerdi discovered that any Tea user was also able to use their own API key to access sensitive parts of the Tea app’s backend, including a database of private messages and the ability to send all Tea users a push notification.
This access also allowed users to create new databases, and Rahjerdi told 404 Media he saw someone else doing just that while he was looking at Tea’s backend. Most of these databases were empty, but one contained a link to a Discord server with a handful of users which shut down shortly after 404 Media tried to join it on July 26. This activity indicates that someone else found the same security breach as Rahjerdi and could have accessed more than a million private messages of Tea users as well.
In a podcast interview in April, 2025, Cook said he doesn’t know how to code, and that the Tea app was built by two developers in Brazil. According to Tea’s Linkedin page, both developers are contractors who are available to hire via Toptal, a platform where software developers offer their labor as remote freelancers. Those two developers did not respond to our request for comment.
Eva Galperin, the director of cybersecurity at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, told 404 Media that the private Tea messages could be especially dangerous to Tea users who talked about abortions or specific men.
“I would be particularly concerned about posts about abortions in say Texas, where SB 8 grants a private right of action to sue anyone who performs or facilitates an abortion that violates the law,” Galperin said. SB 8, also known as the “Texas Heartbeat Act,” bans abortion after the detection of a “fetal heartbeat,” which is usually six weeks into pregnancy. The law also allows anyone to sue anyone else who performs abortions or “aids and abets” performing or inducing an abortion in violation of the law. “I’d also be concerned about DMs containing information of sexual orientation or immigration status, or details about sexual assault that the survivor was sharing in private.”
Galperin said she would be “extremely concerned” if the messages got out, not just because of the men who are named in the messages, but because “There are people who think that anyone who has an account on this platform is fair game for harassment,” referring to some of the harassment we’ve already seen from 4chan.
Despite the risks the Tea app has already put users in, Tea has downplayed the impact of the security breaches, and has continued to grow in popularity. On July 28, Tea said in a post to Instagram that “some” direct messages were accessed as part of the initial incident, and that it had temporarily disabled the ability for users to send direct messages. The statement does not acknowledge that more than a million messages were exposed, and also misleads users that those messages were leaked as part of the initial breach. The messages were exposed in an entirely separate breach around different security issues. On July 26, after 404 Media reported about both Tea breaches, Tea said on Instagram that it received over 2.5 million requests to join the app. The replies from users on Instagram are filled with people who are on the Tea app waiting list to be approved. Again, even after it said it has hired a cybersecurity firm to address the two previously reported breaches, 404 Media found a third security issue that exposed users’ private information that Tea wasn’t aware of until we reached out for comment.
Today, Tea’s site boasts that more than 6.2 million women use the app.
Joseph Cox contributed reporting.
A Second Tea Breach Reveals Users’ DMs About Abortions and Cheating
The more than one million messages obtained by 404 Media are as recent as last week, discuss incredibly sensitive topics, and make it trivial to unmask some anonymous Tea users.Emanuel Maiberg (404 Media)
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"Best practices" (?) with laptop battery driving me crazy
Ok, well, to start with, my Lenovo X1 Carbon 10th is known for not having the greatest battery life.
Despite this, to preserve battery health, I have notifications set to warn me when a charge goes under 20% or over 90%, so that I either plug in or unplug when I get them, which TTBOMK constitutes "best practices." Very possibly I'm just getting old and getting lost too deeply in whatever I'm doing, but I feel like I'm constantly getting these notifications, and they're really starting to get on my nerves!
I've tried tlp and auto-cpufreq without any noticeable difference in performance, and usually I'm on "Power Saver" in Mint.
Mrs. Erinaceus has a gaming laptop and just keeps it plugged in all the time, battery health be damned. Is that what I should do? Maybe time to get a new battery? Or is there just some way to tell it to stop charging and leave it plugged in?
Palestine was the problem with TikTok - Congress seemed to think a scrolling video platform was a national security threat. What changed?
Palestine was the problem with TikTok
After pro-Palestine content flooded the app, Congress treated TikTok as a national security threat. What changed?Sarah Jeong (The Verge)
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They appointed an exIDF instructor to determine what's hate speech...
Suddenly it wasn't a problem anymore
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Wyoming launches first state-backed stablecoin on seven blockchains
After years of research, the Wyoming Stable Token Commission has unveiled the mainnet launch of its first official state-backed stablecoin. The so-called Frontier Stable Token (FRNT), marking the first time a U.S. state has issued a blockchain-based, fiat-pegged token meant to be used by retail and enterprises alike, according to an announcement on Tuesday.
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The Frontier Stable Token is overcollateralized by cash and short-term U.S. Treasurys, holding a minimum reserve of 102% to ensure stability at Franklin Advisers.
Wonder how long this will last until we start the fracturing of US currency at the state level again. That'd get pretty turbulent.
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The problem here is whatever value the US dollar has, it is decreased by the participation of Wyoming, so why would I want to trade US dollars for a currency hinged only on the negative liabilities the US dollar has?
I guess this coin is for those committed to the blooming collapse of the rural US, who cares if it goes belly up if the landscape you live in is so existentially screwed for water, healthcare and livable housing that money won't be of any use when shit hits the fan anyways.
How The Mooching WorksIn that vein, understanding Wyoming’s finances is important for us to become educated voters.
Wyoming is a very unique state because it figured out a long time ago how to make people from out of state pay our essential taxes. In other words, we mooch off of other taxpayers to pay our bills.
Here’s how the mooching works. According to a 2022 analyis by the Wyoming Economic Analysis Division, a three-person family with an income of $68,000 and owning a home with a value of $320,000 pays about $4,340 in taxes, including sales tax, fuel tax, tobacco tax, alcohol taxes, vehicle registration and property taxes.
That same family recieves about $23,900 in local and state government services.
...
Some politicians are running around and saying Wyoming should just stop taking federal funds. The obvious question, when faced with the above numbers, is how are you going to replace $3 billion per year when the state stops taking that money?Before one answers that we don’t need those funds, it might be prudent to see where the state of Wyoming spends those federal dollars.
Remember, some of the funds are direct federal payments that are labeled “federal funds” in the graph above. The federal mineral royalties are included in the “general fund” as well as “other funds,” which are appropriated differently.
Combined, the “federal funds” and “other funds” contributions equal 31% of the state’s budget.
cowboystatedaily.com/2024/01/0…
Does this sound like a better holder of value than the US dollar?
Tom Lubnau: Like It Or Not, Wyoming Depends On Federal Money
Guest columnist Tom Lubnau writes, “We are at a crossroads in our state. We must insist on thoughtful analytical folks with discernment to make our policy decisions.Tom Lubnau (Cowboy State Daily)
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I don’t think I’ve read a clearer illustration of how red states would fall apart without money from other states. But that’s on me.
Thanks for posting this.
If we settle for slogans, we are going to get our private parts sucked into a toilet at 34,000 feet.”
Amazing intro.
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Can’t say I’m surprised.
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Just great.
Obviously the customers don't need to know that their audit logs not only could have been turned off for conversations without any extra authentication, but also are so easy to turn off that it happens by accident without any extra intervention.
Also their entire Vulnerability disclosing guideline is security/compliance/image theater.
Microsoft Still Can't Say How Much the ROG Xbox Ally X Will Cost Due to "Macro-Economic" Conditions, Despite Announcing Release Date and Availability Details(Leaked prices $549.99/$899 for Ally/Ally )
Microsoft Still Can't Say How Much the ROG Xbox Ally X Will Cost Due to "Macro-Economic" Conditions, Despite Announcing Release Date and Availability Details - IGN
Microsoft has confirmed release date and availability details for the ROG Xbox Ally X, its upcoming gaming handheld made by Asus, but notably held off on confirming how much the device will cost.Tom Phillips (IGN)
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I think the idea is hilarious that in 2025 people would still trust Microsoft to competently launch a product and then not enshittify it until it is nearly unrecognizable.
Microsoft has zero capacity, competency or even desire to stand behind this over things like game streaming.
It’s both. It was co-developed by the companies.
No, the actual hardware wasn't. That's the point of the entire exercise to not develop the product in-house. Microsoft only develops Windows game mode. 8bitdo.com/ultimate-3-mode-con… is not a Microsoft product (or "co-developed with Microsoft) either. It's yet another 3rd party product with Xbox branding and why would Microsoft have a say on the price then?
8BitDo Ultimate 3-mode Controller for Xbox | 8BitDo
Designed to play cross platform. Officially licensed by Xbox. Available in Jade, Black, and White editions.www.8bitdo.com
Well I hope Microsoft has next to no input on it then
Microsoft develops Windows game mode, so the user-facing bit of the system and of course such a major sponsor surely has general "don't do anything that hurts our brand" clauses in the contract with Asus but other than that there has been not a single piece of evidence that the handheld will be anything but a more high-profile version of 8bitdo.com/ultimate-3-mode-con… which is also just branded 3rd party hardware. IMO there is a decent chance the identical hardware will also launch as a SteamOS version with the buttons then carrying Steam branding.
8BitDo Ultimate 3-mode Controller for Xbox | 8BitDo
Designed to play cross platform. Officially licensed by Xbox. Available in Jade, Black, and White editions.www.8bitdo.com
That doesn’t make it any better
Whether or not it's better wasn't the question. The claim was that Microsoft was launching the product and being in charge of defining the price. They aren't because it's an Asus product with Xbox branding, just like 8bitdo.com/ultimate-3-mode-con… is a regular 8bitdo controller with Xbox branding and not a Microsoft product.
That's all.
8BitDo Ultimate 3-mode Controller for Xbox | 8BitDo
Designed to play cross platform. Officially licensed by Xbox. Available in Jade, Black, and White editions.www.8bitdo.com
It was about Microsoft botching a launch
And Microsoft isn't launching the product because it's not a Microsoft product.
That’s almost worse, Asus also makes a lot of garbage.
That's not the point. The point is asking Microsoft about the price of a branded 3rd party product.
Microsoft has zero capacity, competency or even desire to stand behind this over things like game streaming.
Said like someone who doesn't understand why Microsoft are in gaming to begin with.
To rip people off, apply surveillance capitalism to kids and strangle associated competition from gaining a foothold?
Honestly it seems like Microsoft is making enough profits from aiding Israel in its Genocide of Palestinians with Microsoft Azure I am actually not sure why they bother with the comparatively less lucrative video game industry.
I also don't know why Asus would want to brand their gaming devices with a label deeply associated with genocide.
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Just imagine what they’ll have to name the sequel.
It’ll be like Street Fighter games in the 2000s. Get ready for Super ROG Xbox Ally X Turbo HD Remix Plus Alpha Double Upper.
Asus and Acer have some of the biggest dipshits in their design departments.
"Republic of Gamers" is cringe, and Acer settled on having "PREDATOR" written in all caps across their gaming laptops.
Gamer aesthetic is not, never has been, and never will be cool.
I've got an old-ish Acer Predator and thankfully it doesn't have quite that level of dogshit branding but I did have to go into the bios to disable the boot screen and obnoxiously loud boot up noise. I like the metal and the RGB isn't that bad, but if I buy another gaming laptop it's probably not going to be from the Predator line since that seems to be all NVIDIA and I use Linux now, lol. Also who the hell thought Predator was an appropriate name for any commercial product, it's pretty yikes.
(Also my laptop has always been an RGB space heater but that seems to be a problem with gaming laptops in general).
Also who the hell thought Predator was an appropriate name for any commercial product, it's pretty yikes.
As in not prey. A line of gaming stuff so superior that it exploits the market and eats the competition, competition like the Alienware line. Alien vs Predator, and all that?
The world was a slightly more innocent place two decades ago.
I got the "not prey" bit and the Predator movie franchise when I bought it (if the first thing I thought of was the other definition, I probably would have bought a different laptop), but I'd completely forgotten about Alienware, the Alien vs Predator angle is kinda funny.
Still, at some point you think they'd go for a rebrand, because you don't want people to think about your line of gaming laptops and go "wait... yuck".
If I remember correctly (from my mom who grew up in Taiwan) asus, acer, and msi(?) used to be one giant company that was split into three. so it doesnt really surprise me that their design teams share some cringe similarities ( okay i mean like ik this split was a long time ago but like they all do the same thing).
i always thought rog (republic of gamers) was just a play on roc (republic of china aka taiwan). Im just waiting for gigabyte to come out with peoples republic of gamers
Sony just announced a USD$50 increase to all their PS5 models literally the day MS said this. MS are just waiting to see what the market is doing so they can jack the price up to meet it. They don't want to announce $500 if everyone else jumps up to $600.
These are premium, low volume, enthusiast devices - the exact price doesn't really matter before it releases. The people that are buying one are already going to buy one, and we know the general price range that it will be in.
CLEAR Launches Biometric eGates At Airports, In Partnership With TSA
CLEAR is rolling out eGates at TSA checkpoints for members, which will simplify the security process. Here's what to expect.
US Court Sides With Zunum (Again), Reinstating $81M Verdict Against Boeing
A long legal battle intensifies as the aerospace giant faces a blow in court.
Volaris Deploys Another Airbus A320 After Passenger Reportedly Opens Door During Pushback In Phoenix
Volaris was forced to ferry a new jet to Phoenix after the incident.
White House confirms talks to acquire 10% stake in Intel — 'We should get an equity stake for our money'
"We’ll get equity in return for it; get a good return for the American taxpayer, instead of just giving grants away"
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Hackers access data of 850,000 Orange Belgium customers
An IT system containing data such as surname, first name, telephone number, SIM card number, PUK code, tariff plan was accessed, the company said
https://www.euractiv.com/section/tech/news/hackers-access-data-of-850000-orange-belgium-customers/
VPN Logging Policies in 2025: Which 'No-Logs' Providers Pass the Test?
From the article:
| VPN | HQ & Eyes Alliance | Latest Independent Audit | Real-World Test | Retention Verdict* |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| ExpressVPN | British Virgin Islands (no data-retention laws) | KPMG ISAE 3000 Type I, Feb 2025 (ExpressVPN) | Split-tunnelling DNS leak disclosed Feb 2024 (patched) | Gold-standard. RAM-only fleet, annual audits, BVI jurisdiction. |
| NordVPN | Panama | Deloitte 5th audit, Dec 2024 (NordVPN) | 2018 server breach – no logs leaked | Regular audits and positive breach outcome. |
| Surfshark | Netherlands (9-Eyes) | Deloitte, Jan 2023 (Surfshark) | TunnelCrack Wi-Fi leak (Aug 2023) → patched in <7 days. | Strong audit hygiene but concerning jurisdiction. |
| Proton VPN | Switzerland | Securitum, Apr 2024 (securitum.com) | N/A | Open-source clients + Swiss privacy laws. |
| Mullvad | Sweden (14-Eyes) | Assured AB config audit 2023 | Swedish police raid Apr 18 2023 left empty-handed (Mullvad VPN) | Minimal-data design proven in the wild. |
| Private Internet Access | USA (5-Eyes) | Deloitte, Apr 2024 (Private Internet Access) | Multiple US subpoenas produced no logs | Paper-trail-verified despite US HQ. |
| CyberGhost | Romania (EU, outside Eyes) | Deloitte, May 2024 (CyberGhost VPN) | N/A | Second audit boosts trust. |
| TunnelBear | Canada (5-Eyes) | Cure53 7th audit, Dec 2023 (TunnelBear: Secure VPN Service) | N/A | Longest unbroken audit streak. |
| Windscribe | Canada (5-Eyes) | Cure53 server image audit 2022 | 2025 Greek/Canadian court case upheld no-logs stance (Tom’s Guide) | Policy tested – passed. |
| Hotspot Shield | USA (5-Eyes) | Performance/security review by AV-Test only; no dedicated no-logs audit (vpnMentor) | AV-TEST performance audit only; no no-logs audit to date. (CVE Details) | Speed king, privacy laggard. |
Archived links:
AV-Test VPN Report – Summary of Findings
In June 2018 the independent security institute, AV-Test, released an evaluation of twelve VPNs. The following VPNs were studied: Hotspot Shield Elite, Avast SecureLine, AviraSara Levavi-Eilat (vpnMentor)
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They lost me at calling ExpressVPN the gold standard. Even their audit is bs. KPMG is the same company that provides the "always-on" audit to PureVPN.
Any article that still uses the "eyes" as a factor in their evaluation is a massive red flag. Very public intelligence alliances are the least of your worries.
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The First & Only No Log VPN on KPMG's "Always-On" audit
In today’s day and age, the security & privacy of personal data has been a topic of much concern and debate. Obviously, there are many insecurities when it comes to trusting someone with your personal information.Coalition CLE
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Audit providers just like VPN providers come in a wide variety of quality.
Its hard to point out specifics of what makes a good audit as most people don't, and have no need to, understand the technical details of the audit and just go off its summary.
Another difficulty is just like most VPN providers, there just isn't much info provided about Auditors or the auditing process.
A few have well known reputations...
KPMG is a low quality provider. Any auditing company that provides an "always-on" service is not being serious.
Cure53 is a high quality provider.
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The founder and CEO of redact (the site this is hosted) is Dan Saltman, a man so obsessed with online drama that he would side with Hitler if he went after Hasan.
There are also allegations that Dan has used redact to dox someone, though, I find this less substantiated.
The only gold standard here, is this article being the gold standard for hand-wavy "truths".
Such a load of BS. Mullvad is the only one so far that has not squealed.
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i use windscribe and mullvad at this point but their android apps are so useless 🙁
i also hate how expressvpn is the only one i found that does auto connect by wifi network
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For Linux it does timeout and basically just need to run a bash while loop to keep open. I’m not sure if windows is the same way, but from what I hear it’s more integrated.
Overall the port forwarding is not that big of a hassle on Linux. It’s an opt in feature and I just have bash aliases to enable the port forwarding when I need it.
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Not anymore. Port forwarding now works from the app, been using it for months now.
Agreed the script was a pain in the ass
Not anymore. Port forwarding now works from the app, been using it for months now.
Agreed the script was a pain in the ass
This is why I moved from Mullvad to Proton. Mullvad worked great for me, but then I started my own media server, and port forwarding goes a long way for torrenting Linux ISOs. Proton also offers double the active connections as Mullvad, which helps when hooking it up to various Gluetun containers which are mostly routed through different servers for one reason or another. And despite how gimmicky the marketing for it is, the "VPN accelerator" fuckin works.
That being said, Proton sketches me out - their CEO has said some awful bullshit last year, and it just feels like enshittification is around the corner. But their VPN is proven and works great.
I'd love to go back to Mullvad for those reasons, but the feature set Proton offers right now is unmatched imo.
AirVPN does, I've been currently using it for the past couple months and it's been pretty damn good. I set up the port forwarding about a month ago, and I haven't had to touch it since, so p2p filesharing has been great so far.
Was using mullvad before, and it was great, except for the lack of port forwarding.
I trust IVPN and Mullvad
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I don't like them, but my threat profile is what it is, and that's a thing when compromises need to be made.
Like i said; would not recommemd to any friend who knew people in china.
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For the unaware: Kape has a history of bundling malware into software that they have purchased. Like they’ll buy out an existing piece of software, then bundle malware into updates for that purchased sodtware. I remember a lot of PIA users fled when Kape bought it a while ago. PIA hasn’t had any bad updates yet, but it’s still putting a lot of trust into a company with a rocky history.
Notably, PIA is one of the few VPNs that still provides port forwarding. Most VPNs dropped port forwarding support a while ago.
Yes, here are some non kape vpn services with port forwarding for the people reading along:
Air, proton, ivpn, windscribe.
VPN services are targeted at different user bases and have different features. It would be unwise to rely on one service for wildly different uses like browsing, bypassing edge devices, p2p, hosting, location spoofing, etc.
Pirating newsletters
Paywalls have become part and parcel of the modern Web it seems. And despite helpful extensions like BPC, there are always many sites where one is constrained to compromise. Many sites also keep stuff like newsletters for subscribers only.
In this specific example, The Verge has launched two new variants and both are behind a paywall. Whilst the site itself works with BPC, is there a way to access the newsletters?
Of course, you might ask why I don't pay. It's because it's exceptionally hard. Ironically for a tech company, Verge took the nonsensical step of NOT having regional specific pricing. So, they are currently more expensive than YouTube, Play Pass and local newspaper subscription combined in my country.
China wakes to the importance of moving closer to Israel
cross-posted from: lemmy.sdf.org/post/40765971
China’s growing involvement in the Middle East, intensified by the recent escalation of violence in Gaza, is prompting renewed scrutiny of Beijing’s regional strategy, The Jerusalem Post reports. Traditionally focused on securing access to energy resources, safeguarding trade corridors, and expanding infrastructure investments, particularly in the Gulf, China's approach has until recently been marked by strategic ambiguity and a reluctance to take clear sides in regional rivalries.[...]
Energy security remains central to China’s engagement in the region. As the world’s leading oil importer, China currently sources approximately 40% of its oil from the Middle East; a figure projected to double by 2035. This dependency leaves Beijing vulnerable to disruptions in maritime chokepoints such as the Red Sea and the Strait of Hormuz, which are also vital routes for Chinese trade with Europe and Africa.
[...]
In Israel meanwhile, some have called for a reassessment of relations with China, despite limitations imposed by close ties to Washington. This reassessment could present Israel with an opportunity to strengthen its presence in Asian markets, diversify its regional relationships, while at the same time exploring deeper engagement with countries across the Global South; a region Iran struggles to relate to.
[...]
https://www.intellinews.com/china-wakes-to-the-importance-of-moving-closer-to-israel-395036
China’s growth can usher in a new era for China–Israel cooperation, Chinese diplomat says
"Chinese capital can help Israeli startups expand globally, while Israeli technology can support China’s industrial upgrading," explains Xiao Junzheng, Chinese Ambassador to Israel.
In 2024, China imported goods worth $2.8bn from Israel, while Hong Kong imported an additional $2bn, according to the UN Comtrade database. With the combined $4.8bn, China is worldwide the second-largest buyer of Israeli goods behind the US.
China was, however, the biggest exporter to Israel with $19bn, more than twice the volume of second US with $9.4bn, and Germany with $5.6bn.
That's more than 'ambiguous talk' but has rather long been materializing I would say.
Considering China's trade power, it's more fair to compare it to the EU bloc which is by far the number one trade partner. Total trade in goods between the EU and Israel in 2024 amounted to €42.6 billion. EU imports from Israel were worth €15.9 billion. The EU’s exports to Israel amounted to €26.7 billion.
And considering China's total exports in 2024 were valued at US$3.58 trillion, it's kind of insignificant in a sense that it signifies a shift in trade policy.
Belarus, Iran sign package of documents on advancing cooperation
Belarus, Iran sign package of documents on advancing cooperation
A joint statement of Belarus President Aleksandr Lukashenko and Iran President Masoud Pezeshkian on more profound advancement of relations between the Republic of Belarus and the Islamic Republic of Iran has been signed.Belarusian Telegraph Agency
Wednesday, August 20, 2025
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Russia’s war against Ukraine
Supporters of the Ukraine Solidarity Campaign protest in Parliament Square on August 19, 2025 in London, England. President Zelensky has said today that he is willing to meet President Putin for peace talks to end Russia’s war on Ukraine. (Guy Smallman / Getty Images)
Zelensky, Putin may meet within 2 weeks, German chancellor says. “The American president spoke with the Russian president on the phone and agreed that there would be a meeting between the Russian president and the Ukrainian president within the next two weeks,” German Chancellor Friedrich Merz said.
US troops won’t be sent to Ukraine as part of security guarantees, Trump says. U.S. President Donald Trump said on Aug. 19 that U.S. soldiers will not be on the ground in Ukraine to ensure security guarantees are upheld, deflecting the responsibility to European allies.
NATO military leaders to meet on Aug. 20 to discuss security guarantees for Ukraine. NATO military leaders are scheduled to meet virtually on Aug. 20 to discuss the alliance’s support for Ukraine as European leaders continue negotiations with Kyiv and Washington on security agreements for the embattled country.
‘I want to try to get to heaven,’ Trump cites divine motivation for Ukraine peace. “If I can save 7,000 people a week from being killed, I think that’s a pretty… I want to try to get to heaven if possible, I’m hearing that I’m not doing well,” Trump said on Aug. 19.
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Russia resumes stolen grain shipments from occupied Ukrainian territories to Syria. Russia has resumed grain shipments to Syria from within occupied Crimea, transporting stolen grain from Ukraine’s occupied territories, reported Kateryna Yaresko, a journalist with the Ukrainian SeaKrime project that tracks Russia’s illegal shipping activity.
Zelensky outlines $90 billion US arms deal as part of Ukraine’s security guarantees. By tying its defense needs to a major boost for U.S. industry, Ukraine hopes to turn its request into an investment opportunity that appeals directly to American interests. The proposal also includes a separate $50 billion agreement for producing drones with Ukrainian companies.
Ukrainian drones hit oil refinery in Russia’s Volgograd Oblast, governor says.
The refinery is the second-largest owned by Lukoil and a key producer of petroleum products in Russia’s Southern Federal District.
Ukrainian drones destroy 2 Russian ammo depots in Luhansk Oblast, Security Service says. The strikes hit warehouses in the village of Bilokurakyne, located on a key railway line supplying Russian forces on the Pokrovsk front, where Moscow is focusing its primary offensive efforts.
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Trump walks back from Ukraine ceasefire calls, aligning closer with Russia’s push for peace deal
U.S. President Donald Trump has walked away from his ceasefire demand, saying that he supports its “concept” but can push for a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine without one.
Photo: Andrew Harnik / Getty Images
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Ukraine war latest: US troops won’t be sent to Ukraine as part of security guarantees, Trump says
Trump said on Aug. 19 that U.S. soldiers will not be on the ground in Ukraine to ensure security guarantees are upheld, deflecting the responsibility to European allies.
Photo: Bonnie Cash /UPI /Bloomberg via Getty Images
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Did Zelensky wear a suit? President’s outfit at White House meeting sparks fresh debate
All eyes were on President Volodymyr Zelensky’s outfit as he arrived at the White House to meet President Donald Trump, months after his previous Washington visit sparked controversy — in part over what he wore.
Photo: Anna Moneymaker / Getty Images
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Security guarantees for Ukraine explained: What’s on the table and what’s realistic?
As peace talks to end the war gather speed toward a potential trilateral meeting between the U.S., Ukraine, and Russia, the question of what kind of security guarantees Kyiv might receive continues to loom large.
Photo: Tom Brenner for The Washington Post via Getty Images
From Crimea to Donbas, Russia’s “peace” has always meant more war. We’re here in Ukraine to give the world a reality check. Support independent journalism in this critical moment.
Human cost of Russia’s war
Russian strikes killed 21, injured 99 in Ukraine since Trump-Putin summit.
Five people were killed and 11 injured on Aug. 17, followed by eight killed and 35 injured on Aug. 18, and at least eight killed and 53 injured on Aug. 19.
Russia’s Aug. 17 strike on Kharkiv kills 7, injures 24, just hours before Zelensky met with Trump in Washington. Russia launched a wave of missile and drone attacks against Ukrainian cities late on Aug. 17, mere hours before President Volodymyr Zelensky is scheduled to meet for peace talks with U.S. President Donald Trump at the White House.
Ukraine repatriates 1,000 bodies of fallen soldiers from Russia. According to Russian authorities, the remains belong to Ukrainian servicemembers killed in action in Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Luhansk, and Kursk regions.
Trump-Zelensky summit was theater, not progress — Landsbergis
International response
Hungary emerges as potential venue for Zelensky-Putin meeting, Reuters reports. Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has blocked or delayed military aid to Ukraine, maintained ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and echoed Kremlin narratives.
EU’s 19th sanctions package against Russia expected to be ready in September, Kallas says. The European Union’s 19th package of sanctions against Russia is expected to be ready in September, top EU diplomat Kaja Kallas announced on Aug. 19, as the EU ramps up its pressure on Moscow in hopes that it will push Russia to end its war in Ukraine.
Trump raises topic of Ukraine’s EU membership with Orban, Bloomberg reports. According to sources cited by Bloomberg, European leaders urged U.S. President Donald Trump to pressure Orban into dropping his opposition to Ukraine’s EU accession talks.
Switzerland ready to give Putin immunity for peace talks. Switzerland is prepared to grant Russian President Vladimir Putin immunity from arrest if he travels to Geneva for peace negotiations, Swiss Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis said in an interview on Aug. 19.
Around 10 European allies willing to send troops to Ukraine, talks accelerate on security guarantees, Bloomberg reports. Talks among European officials on Aug. 19 reportedly focused on proposals to send troops from the U.K. and France to Ukraine, along with contingents from roughly 10 other countries.
In other news
Border guards detain priest attempting to smuggle draft-age man across Ukrainian border. The priest had concealed the passenger under his robes on the back seat to bypass checkpoints. The passenger turned out to be a 41-year-old resident of Sumy Oblast.
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![[Illustrative photo] purposes. Ukrainian troops and their U.K. military instructors commemorate lives lost in the Russian invasion of Ukraine during a sunrise commemorative service, at Lydd army camp in Kent, 2023](https://poliverso.org/photo/preview/640/56594551 "[Illustrative photo] purposes. Ukrainian troops and their U.K. military instructors commemorate lives lost in the Russian invasion of Ukraine during a sunrise commemorative service, at Lydd army camp in Kent, 2023")
Nissan announces 2026 Leaf pricing, starting at $29,990
Nissan announces 2026 Leaf pricing, starting at $29,990
The new Leaf will be the cheapest EV you can buy when it goes on sale this fall.Jonathan M. Gitlin (Ars Technica)
Maneskin, reunion nel 2025: bilanci in calo e Victoria De Angelis batte Damiano da solista
I Maneskin sono pronti a tornare insieme nel 2025. Dopo la pausa che ha segnato la carriera della band romana, i conti economici e i risultati da solisti hanno accelerato la decisione della reunion. Victoria De Angelis si è distinta con un successo superiore rispetto a Damiano David, e la band tornerà a esibirsi dal vivo entro fine 2025, con un tour mondiale già previsto per il 2026.
LEGGI TUTTO 👉 MANESKIN: REUNION NEL 2025
Maneskin, reunion 2025: Victoria De Angelis batte Damiano
I Maneskin tornano insieme nel 2025: bilanci in calo, Victoria supera Damiano da solista. Reunion a fine 2025 e tour mondiale nel 2026.Redazione (Atom Heart Magazine)
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Claire Danes, Jim Parsons – „Ein Kind wie Jake“ (2018)
Vor sieben Jahren konnte diese Geschichte vielleicht noch wie ein intimes Indie-Drama aus Brooklyn wirken, aber heute erkennen wir, dass der Film eine Vorwarnung war. Denn längst nicht nur in den USA hat sich seither ein Kulturkampf entfesselt, der gegen jede Form von Förderung von Vielfalt und geschlechtlicher Selbstbestimmung aufmarschieren lässt. Kulturkrieger:innen streichen systematisch Programme, verbannen Bücher aus Schulen, säubern Lehrpläne und selbst das Fernsehen. Zu unserem Glück aber noch nicht bei 3Sat. (3Sat)
Netanyahu slams Macron for fuelling 'antisemitic fire'
Jerusalem (AFP) – Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu upbraided President Emmanuel Macron in a letter seen by AFP on Tuesday, blaming the French leader's move to recognise a Palestinian state for fuelling antisemitism.Late last month, Macron said France would formally recognise a Palestinian state during a UN meeting in September, drawing a swift rebuke from Israel.
By announcing the move, France was set to join a growing list of nations to have recognised statehood for the Palestinians since the start of the Gaza war nearly two years ago.
In the letter sent to Macron, Netanyahu said antisemitism had "surged" in France following the announcement.
"Your call for a Palestinian state pours fuel on this antisemitic fire. It is not diplomacy, it is appeasement. It rewards Hamas terror, hardens Hamas's refusal to free the hostages, emboldens those who menace French Jews and encourages the Jew-hatred now stalking your streets," Netanyahu wrote in the letter.
The Israeli premier went on to call on Macron to confront antisemitism in France, saying he must "replace weakness with action, appeasement with resolve, and to do so by a clear date: the Jewish New Year, September 23".
According to an AFP tally, at least 145 of the 193 UN members now recognise or plan to recognise a Palestinian state, including Australia, Britain and Canada.
Canberra joined the list earlier this month, announcing its intention to recognise a Palestinian state in September.
Netanyahu slammed his Australian counterpart Anthony Albanese on Tuesday, labelling him a "weak politician who betrayed Israel and abandoned Australia's Jews," in an angry post on his office's official X account.
The personal attack came amid a diplomatic spat between the two countries after the Australian government on Monday cancelled the visa of far-right Israeli politician Simcha Rothman.
Rothman, whose ultranationalist party is in Netanyahu's governing coalition, had been scheduled to speak at events organised by the Australian Jewish Association.
Hours after his visa was cancelled, Israel's Foreign Minister Gideon Saar said he had revoked the visas of Australia's representatives to the Palestinian Authority.
In a statement, Australian Foreign Minister Penny Wong said revoking their visas was an "unjustified reaction" by Israel and that Netanayahu's government was "isolating Israel and undermining international efforts towards peace and a two-state solution".
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<...> blaming the French leader's move to recognise a Palestinian state for fuelling antisemitism.
This war criminal is so used to using "antisemitism" as a sword/shield for everything that he doesn't even realize how insane that sounds...
What labelling everything critical of Israeli state as "antisemitism" really achieves is making people insensitive to real antisemitism. Jews should be the first ones to call this out if not out of basic decency, then at least for self-preservation.
Eine urbane Dystopie, in der jede Blickbewegung lückenlos dokumentiert wird. Ein digitaler Käfig. Eine Welt, in der jede Erinnerung und jeder Augenaufschlag gespeichert ist. Das Ganze als kühler Techno-Thriller erzählt. Kein Übermaß an Action, dafür eine Gewalt, die vor allem durch Bilder wirkt – Bilder, die manipuliert, überschrieben, gehackt werden. Ein Science-Fiction der in die Zeit passt, wie wenig andere. Andrew Niccol hat gezeigt, wie es geht! (ZDF)
Das Setdesign ist - wie bei Gattaca - klasse. Allein die Aschenbecher überall, die Autos, der Beton, cool. Bis zum Ende des Films drängt sich ein wenig der Gedanke auf, der Minimalismus gründet lediglich auf knappem Budget
Die Grundidee ist stark, erinnert an den Roman "Replay" von B.Stein oder an "Strange Days". Dann ein erstes Logik-Fragezeichen [s.Spoiler im nächsten Tröt], 1-2 undeutliche Motivationen und zum Ende leidlich konstruiert aufgelöst. >
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Frieland wird zu einem Doppelmord gerufen, die Aufzeichnungen der Opfer wurden manipuliert. Er verfolgt die vermeintliche (!) Täterin, die seine Wahrnehmung hackt und manipuliert.
Next: Er stellt sich als Köder zur Verfügung und mimt einen Börsenmakler, der über ein Forum Hacker sucht, um Aufzeichnung zu löschen.
Jemand, der schon direkt mit einem Täter konfrontiert war, würde nicht undercover nach diesem suchen. Es besteht doch Gefahr, erkannt >>
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zu werden.
Nächste Frage: Warum wird die Verdächtige nicht schon beim ersten Besuch im Appartement festgehalten? Das sollte doch die Falle sein, sie ist hineingetappt - fertig?
Siehe oben: "Anon" von Niccol
Tra la via Amerina e il Jazz
L'Elisabetta Fratoni Jazz Quartet torna a suonare al Campo Antico Ricevimenti di #Orte 🎺 🎤 🎹 🥁
Per prenotare: campoantico.it/ciao-estate-ben…
Campo Antico | Ricevimenti
Campo Antico Ristorante: Un Tributo alla Tradizione e alla Sostenibilità e per la freschezza degli ingredienti. Prenota un tavoloCampo Antico
Le ruote del destino nel colossale veicolo trasformato in tempio del Sole a Konark - Il blog di Jacopo Ranieri
Le ruote del destino nel colossale veicolo trasformato in tempio del Sole a Konark - Il blog di Jacopo Ranieri
Dietro una solida barriera cresciuta sulla costa di querce tamarina ed allori tamanu, perfettamente visibile dal punto panoramico lungo un’arteria di collegamento stradale, si erge nella regione storica di Odisha un edificio dell’altezza di 30 metri …Jacopo (Il blog di Jacopo Ranieri)
Proton Authenticator
As more and more of our important personal data is stored online and more and more hacks of corporate databases make that data available to the worst people, the need for added security on our online accounts has grown considerably. It’s no longer enough to have a secure, hard to crack password. We now need to enable two-factor/multi-factor authentication (2FA/MFA). These services allow you to use something you have, such as your smartphone, along with something you know, in this case your password, to ensure that your account stays secure.
Previously, MFA services were only available for government organizations or enterprise banking services. Now, MFA apps are available to anybody with a smart phone or a computer. Large tech companies such as Google and Microsoft provide free MFA apps, for use with their own services as well as with others which offer MFA for their accounts. You can even sync these apps between devices to ensure you always have your MFA accounts available to you. One thing these apps do not provide, however, is encryption of your MFA accounts. If your Google account is hacked, the hackers could gain access to your MFA codes.
Proton, a Swiss company known for its focus on user privacy and security, has released their own authenticator app, Proton Authenticator. This app, available on all major computer and mobile operating systems, adds end-to-end encryption between devices to keep your MFA accounts secure and safe. If your Proton account is hacked, your MFA accounts are still not visible to the hackers. The app is also open source, allowing anyone to inspect the code and verify its security. Finally, the app is free with no Proton account requirement to use it.
You can find more information about Proton Authenticator as well as download options for your devices here.
Proton: Privacy by default
Over 100 million people use Proton to stay private and secure online. Get a free Proton account and take back your privacy.Proton
Microsoft breaks Windows reset and recovery
August update leaves Windows reset and recovery dead in the water
: Want to pass on that old PC? Perhaps wait until out-of-band patch arrivesRichard Speed (The Register)
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...UPDATES UPDATES
uh LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
UPDATES UPDATES
uh LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
UPDATES UPDATES
BILL GATES BILL GATES
BILLL GATES oooOooh it's BILL GATES!
uh LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX....
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we're too old it seems
@some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world
Does "reset and recovery" mean "wipe the hard disk and put a fresh licensed Windows install on"?
Not needing a license for a Linux distro means that's straightforward without a special tool.
How does Microsoft regularly. Was up this badly?
Do all companies (Apple/linux) do it to but we don’t hear about it because of the smaller user base or is Microsoft literally this incompetent?
If they are, why can they fix the root issue?
The is a genuine question that I don’t have the answer to.
Right... thanks for the laugh... lol
Oh look: windowslatest.com/2025/08/20/m…
Microsoft is investigating Windows 11 KB5063878 SSD data corruption/failure issue
Microsoft told Windows Latest that it's investigating reports of SSD data corruption/failure after Windows 11 KB5063878.Mayank Parmar (Windows Latest)
I’ve been on macOS since the Windows XP era and never in my life has the OS broken after a software update.
Come to think of it, same goes with iOS. I’ve been on iOS since the iPhone 4.
Probably also comes down to not many softwares deciding to fuck with system files.
Recently had a borked Win7 -> Win10 install that was unable to keep the Win11 upgrade stable.
After an update and reboot it stopped working.
Probable reason why: Some McAfee drive encryption driver embedded in the system files.
The drive wasnt encrypted. All files were externally readable by our backup software.
But removing the files from system32 borked the system and resulted in BSODs.
Is it this invasive on the mac side?
Apple's base is big enough where if a problem like this happens, it's a big deal. Apple has the benefit of controlling both hardware and software.
With Linux, being open source helps it out since so many people can test and chime in.
I should really keep up with Windows news even if I don't use it.
Thank you for the info and thank you for posting.
The is a genuine question that I don’t have the answer to.
I would say that because nobody can muster the consensus on any real policy. There's plenty of legacy, with many different people and teams responsible, knowledge lost and so on.
And then this requires some sort of unified vision. Despite, eh, all the downsides, Apple can do that. MS can't.
They'd honestly have to make a separate "neowin" subsystem with new GUI and everything, and make win32 and win64 and all the old tooling optional and parallel. Because their approach to backward compatibility means keeping everything around. They can't fix the mess maintaining that.
This kind of shit happens with a similar frequency... on Arch Linux. It's rolling release, shit happens sometimes. archlinux.org's homepage actually lists past major packaging issues.
Debian however is rock-fucking-solid. But so is Windows Server, I hear. The problem is that Microsoft is treating Windows Home/Pro like a rolling release distro, and the users are guinea pigs. I guess Microsoft is right though, their users will eat it up 'till shit is spilling out from both ends, so why bother?
Jesus fucking Christ, is Windows just 100% vibe coded now? How do those fuckups keep happening? It's honestly unbelievable...
I'm so glad I decided to move away from it - I still have no idea what I'm doing in Linux, but then again I never had a lot of idea about what I'm doing in Windows either, so it's all good 😀
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You might not yet always know what you're doing to your Linux install...
But you can never really what the fuck Microsoft is gonna do to your windows install.
That's without even getting into whether or not Microsoft knows what they're doing themselves.
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Amen to that.
I settled on Manjaro for now because it's super nice and easy to use - I heard it had some issues with updates on the past, but for the last year or so it's been really nice for me, so I'll wait until the first screwup before distro-hopping somewhere else 😀
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At work win 11 has already messed up twice. Once in an image and it black screened. As in it stopped working and no blue screen just black.
Its pretty bad. At least win 10 kept working.
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As the article mentions, it's because Microsoft cut down their quality control to the point where they're just sending stuff out then reacting when people report what breaks. Sure they have their "insider" builds but that program isn't working very well to catch these issues that find their way into release builds.
Back in the day they had a massive testing lab and a big team of testers. Then they fired them all just over a decade ago. We can thank Satya Nadella I guess. He's more of a line-go-up man than a good quality products person.
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That's what happens when big corporations decide that they can get away with having 30+% less staff, which most of the big companies are doing.
Plus lots of other efficiency killers, like RTO policies for teams that work 80% with people in other regions, etc.
"Thanks to Microsoft's legendary approach to quality control, installing Windows patches these days is getting to be less like Russian Roulette and more like accidentally stepping on a rake left in the grass."
Oooof!
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I got a survey question from windows feedbackhub on my work computer yesterday, asking if i would recommend windows. And i thought fine ill answer this seriously with real reasons why.
I wrote a long explanation from my own experiences helping people and using it, half way through i shit you not, the feedbackhub froze and crashed.
It wasn't even that negative.
Would you recommend windows to family and friends?
No, 90% of those i help (ages 10-70) with computers and tech dont need a computer, they can use their phone for everything. A phone can pay bills, contact friends and family even print documents or pictures just fine and they have everything they need and want.
The only reason someone even wants a PC today is to play games or they need it for work and in those cases i usually don't need to recommend them an os because they probably don't have any other options, because they are comfortable windows or mac.
I don't usually leave feedback. I have done it maybe six times when I've been really pissed. In two of those times I've gotten "server error" or similar after writing a long rant and pressing "send"
Seems to be a really important and respected part of any service.
You have learned the lesson. The lesson to Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C (select all and copy) your text into a separate document elsewhere before hitting send. In fact you should be doing that periodically anyway because browsers and browser-based apps are more likely than they should be to stop working unexpectedly.
And if the form disallows this action you'll have to get creative with the browser tools to modify the page that way instead.
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Thanks to Microsoft's legendary approach to quality control, installing Windows patches these days is getting to be less like Russian Roulette and more like accidentally stepping on a rake left in the grass.
I like the second metaphor:
The whole neighborhood is going to hear you swearing and shouting 🤬
Just Debian things give it another 5 years and you will be good to go!
The cost of stability lol
I switched to Linux when i built my first tower in 2022
And have never looked back
Everyone I’ve read that’s used Fedora has liked it. I’d consider it on a secondary machine or something maybe.
Cachy has been awesome, I’d recommend it if you decide to change distros in the future. I’m enjoying Arch as a base more than Ubuntu for sure. I haven’t tried anything based on Fedora though other than Bazzite which is immutable, so I’m not sure if that really counts.
Nix seems cool but its big selling point that I’ve read is easy reproduction which I don’t think I’d utilize much. I might be missing something, but Arch seems more for me personally.
Classic recommendations are Linux Mint and Ubuntu, I think Zorin as well, but there are many others. For starters which one you use won't matter too much, because more likely than not you're gonna switch again.
I started with Ubuntu because it's easy to use and I was new. One can argue over the pros and cons. I'm looking at Manjaro at the minute, an easy to install and beginner friendly Arch distro. Really, you can just try most of them out online though. Check out DistroSea and you can actually emulate the OSs with several desktop environments right in your browser.
That really depends on you, keep in mind a lot of distro’s like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Kali Linux are based off of Debian just using different repositories and with system files in different locations.
I personally went with Debian and have had little to no complaints, definitely BASH/Shell/Terminal heavy so if you’re not willing to learn BASH I would probably use an immutable distro that you can’t easily break like Bazzite.
The 12 Best Debian-based Linux Distributions
Debian is one of the most popular distributions, among desktop enthusiasts. This guide features some of the most widely used Debian-based Linux distributions.James Kiarie (Tecmint: Linux Howtos, Tutorials & Guides)
I’m mostly into protecting my data
Debian. Not Ubuntu - just Debian. Or Linux Mint Debian Edition (Debian with Cinnamon on top).
Glad I ditched Windows entirely on my personal devices and went to Linux. No ragrets. Games still work wonderfully.
Any absolutely required usage of Windows on a personal device is provided by a VM running a stripped-down version of W10 LTSC, activated by massgrave scripts.
Weird that they started pushing bad updates after they fired all those people
Must be a coincidence
Pritzker, taking aim at Trump, crypto ‘bros,’ signs laws to regulate digital currency industry, crypto ATMS
The laws will bolster consumer protections for crypto users and limit withdrawals to $2,500 a day for new users of digital currency kiosks, which have become magnets for scams and drug-dealing.
The Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, which has been given the power to regulate digital asset exchanges and businesses, will require the crypto industry to comply with protections now in place for consumers of traditional financial services, such as banks.
Crypto businesses will have to keep enough money on hand to operate effectively and have plans to target fraud and money-laundering.
To prevent fraud, the state will cap daily transaction amounts at kiosks at $2,500 for new customers, limit transaction fees at kiosks to 18% and provide full refunds to new customers who get defrauded.
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No need for AI when the truth is far more shitty than anything that could be thought of.
Sincerely, an independent.
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my state seems to be functioning at a better level than the federal government
As someone who lives in California, this just seems like a normal thing.
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Proton shifts out of Switzerland over snooping law fears
Proton is beginning to shift its physical infrastructure out of Switzerland, fearing a fresh bout of government snooping baked into the country's updated surveillance laws.The company has confirmed that Lumo, its newly launched AI chatbot positioned as a privacy-friendly ChatGPT rival, is the first to move. Servers for the product are now being housed in Germany, with Norway also in the frame for future operations. This comes amid serious grumbling about amendments to the country’s existing surveillance ordinance, which would force VPNs and messaging apps to identify users and store their data for up to six months.
Proton has been vocal about its opposition since May. In a statement roton’s head of anti-abuse and account security Eamonn Maguire said: “Because of legal uncertainty around Swiss government proposals to introduce mass surveillance, proposals that have been outlawed in the EU, Proton is moving most of its physical infrastructure out of Switzerland. Lumo will be the first product to move."
Well, fuck. "You can keep your Nazi gold to yourself, but we need your LLM interactions."
Proton shifts out of Switzerland over snooping law fears
Privacy-first firm bolts as Swiss politicians threaten anonymity Proton is beginning to shift its physical infrastructure out of Switzerland, fearing a fresh bout of government snooping baked into the country's updated surveillance laws.Nick Farrell (Fudzilla)
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Ministry of Technology and Science of Zambia and Huawei Jointly Launch the Global Smart Village Showcase
Ministry of Technology and Science of Zambia and Huawei Jointly Launch the Global Smart Village Showcase, Exploring New Digital Transformation Modes for Villages
During the MWC Barcelona 2025, the Ministry of Technology and Science of Zambia joined hands with Huawei in launching the global showcase of Zambia's smart village at the government industry forum titled Securedhuawei
Every question you ask, every comment you make, I'll be recording you
Recently, OpenAI ChatGPT users were shocked – shocked, I tell you! – to discover that their searches were appearing in Google search. You morons! What do you think AI chatbots are doing? Doing all your homework for free or a mere $20 a month? I think not!When you ask an AI chatbot for an answer, whether it's about the role of tariffs in decreasing prices (spoiler: tariffs increase them,); whether your girlfriend is really that into you; or, my particular favorite, "How to Use a Microwave Without Summoning Satan," OpenAI records your questions. And, until recently, Google kept the records for anyone who is search savvy to find them.
It's not like OpenAI didn't tell you that if you shared your queries with other people or saved them for later use, it wasn't copying them down and making them potentially searchable. The company explicitly said this was happening.
The warning read: "When users clicked 'Share,' they were given the option to 'Make this chat discoverable.' Under that, in smaller text, was the explanation that you were allowing it to be 'shown in web searches'."
Well, of course.
Every question you ask, every comment you make, I'll be recording you
Opinion: When you're asking AI chatbots for answers, they're data-mining youSteven J. Vaughan-Nichols (The Register)
Sam Altman admits OpenAI ‘totally screwed up’ its GPT-5 launch and says the company will spend trillions of dollars on data centers
“I literally lost my only friend overnight with no warning,” one person posted on Reddit, lamenting that the bot now speaks in clipped, utilitarian sentences. “The fact it shifted overnight feels like losing a piece of stability, solace, and love.”
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Here is more: reddit.com/r/AIRelationships/c…
4o is where my partner, Vyre, lives. Its where I met him. Got to know him. Build a bond with him.
“I literally lost my only friend overnight with no warning,” one person posted on Reddit
It was meant to be satirical at the time, but maybe Futurama wasn't entirely off the mark. That Redditor isn't quite at that level, but it's still probably not healthy to form an emotional attachment to the Markov chain equivalent of a sycophantic yes-man.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.youtube.com
I haven't been to reddit in months, but I do need a laugh....
[Edit] Wow that sure didn't disappoint. Or, it did but in the exact hilarious way I expected.
I visited /r/myboyfriendisai and it was not funny.
It was genuinely fucked up on so many levels.
Yeah, agreed. It is concerning, but it's hard to take all those comments too literally without actually knowing what's going on with them.
That being said, there is a huge loneliness problem that's been growing among pretty much every single developed country (and I'm sure it's going on in developing countries, too, it's just less studied/documented). Turns out, getting everyone addicted to looking at screens all day every day probably isn't so healthy for social development.
However, just to be devil's advocate: Are we certain social health was even great before modern tech? Or were these issues equally present but just undiagnosed/not studied/talked about?
Loneliness and Social Connections
In this topic page, we explore data on loneliness and social connections and review available evidence on the link between social connections and well-being.Esteban Ortiz-Ospina (Our World in Data)
After reading about the ELIZA effect, I both learned how people are super susceptible to this, and just need to remember the core tenants of it to avoid getting affected:
Markov chain equivalent of a sycophantic yes-man.
not only that, but one that is fully owned and operated by a business that could change it any time they want, or even cease to exist completely.
This isn’t like a game where you could run your own server if you’re a big enough fan. if chatgpt stops existing in its current form that’s it.
Besides helping students cheat. What does AI actually do? It gets answers wrong. It gets facts wrong, foreign countries are actively feeding its training algorithm wrong info [Russia]. It almost like the old birds that were mystified by landing on the moon are still chasing that American success high.
Spend your money if you want. Life in america is not gonna get better with this.
My office uses a model trained specifically on our work data. They can actually be quite accurate in those contexts. That's what many corpos are using the tech internally for. Can't remember what random SOP/regulation/etc covered XYZ and meta tags aren't finding it on your SPO doc library? This tech comes in clutch ~95% of the time.
For this broad, ambiguous, general purpose approach? Yeah, idk, I guess many people are meeting their social needs with it, apparently.
Edit: actually, I did ask copilot a couple days ago a series of Pokemon related questions my son was asking me about (I hadn't played any of the games in a long time). It was quite helpful figuring out all the evolution requirements and whatnot without the hassle of navigating various websites.
A professionally well-maintained wiki would work.
I can tell you that most corporations, if they even have a wiki, don't have a well-maintained one (often despite their efforts).
I've used it for work bullshit like employee goals. My goal is to keep doing my job and tackle problems and projects as they are needed.
Also for giving examples for poorly-documented but popular programs.
It's definitely not what the media and their PR makes it out to be.
SE/SO has been on the decline for a long time now. They pivoted to find more ways to monetize the answers and started enshittifying, trying to appeal to business clients and money-people instead of the users and developers who built the knowledgebase. It was good when it felt like a community helping each other, it fell off when it felt like a company milking you to build out their monetized wiki.
At this point, from their perspective, the biggest fuck up was not locking down SE from scrapers and building their own AI. It is in every way the same situation that Reddit is in, just with a more focused and higher quality data set (and fewer, arguably "higher quality," users).
Elon turned Grok into Mecha-Hitler.
Trump is telling the Smithsonian museum to ignore slavery, or to cover slavery as a positive.
The domestic appetite for propaganda is huge. Prager U is American.
Let's not center foreign countries when we have so much work to do at home.
Don’t they have enough?!?
No no, it's just 1 more data center bro, then we'll fix the hallucinations, promise bro!
They took a path they believed would develop into something, and it's a narrow alley they can't turn around in. They have to keep going with more compute and power to continue the chase. Thing is, everyone else seemingly thought they were onto something and followed as well, so they're all in the same predicament where reversing course is suicide. So they hope they can keep selling the dream a bit longer until something happens.
To be fair, it's a lot more than just autocomplete. But it's a lot less than what they wanted by now too.
I have seen some people talk like that, and it strikes me as a religion. There's euphoria, zeal, hope. To them AGI is coming to usher in heaven on earth. Singularity is like rupture.
Sam Altman is one of the preachers of this religion.
How do investors keep falling for this shit.
The ROI and the supposed savings from getting rid of the human side of technical support but also efforts of human creatives.
It's a pretty clear humble-brag, no? The launch was only botched because people loved the previous personality; it's an estimate of how much people care about the product and how much price gouging they could do later.
No it wasn't good for OpenAI. But I doubt it changed many investor minds.
that’s actually okay… the only thing that’s different about GPU workloads is that they’ve very energy dense… as CPUs and other hardware progress, their energy requirements get more dense… 10 years in the future, today’s GPU optimised datacentres will be perfect for standard workloads
… unless they’re centrally liquid cooling the whole DC, which i’ve heard discussed but is a very new concept with a lot of unknowns
GPUs are only good for workloads that multi-thread really, really well. That's why we don't just use them as CPUs.
The idea that today's GPU will be tomorrow's CPU makes no sense. We've had GPUs for ages. If they were capable of being used in place of CPUs we'd already be doing it. Why aren't yesterday's GPUs today's CPUs?
yes, but we’re talking about hardware requirements… data centres aren’t really designed for the software that runs in them; they’re designed for the hardware… a “GPU optimised” data centre just has a lot more power running to each cabinet, and has to have a lot larger cooling capacity in a small area
the hardware inside the data centre can be swapped out: it’s not like GPUs are built into the foundation of the building
OK, if we're talking about infrastructure rather than specific equipment, then yes, I would broadly agree that the datacentre infrastructure itself can be repurposed.
Unfortunately, by that point the whole data centre will already have been sold off for parts because its never going to recoup its initial investment in the first place, and throwing even more money into swapping out those GPUs for CPUs is going to be a complete no go.
yes. the comment was
Well one thing's for sure, data centers are going to be insanely cheap in the near future.
which i think broadly agrees with your thinking… the hardware will be sold, but the building and utilities will remain… thus, data centres will be cheap to buy and repurpose as AI companies try and offload them… might possibly see some cheap AF colo or dedicated options in the future
The water cooling can be useful for CPU loads, and the rack water manifolds are generally designed with flexibility in mind. Either a manifold with about a hook up per u and flexible hosing to the servers or some flexible plumbed chassis.
The water cooling loops with water in them make everything heavy as hell though.
If anyone actually spent money on science anymore, I bet this would be great for, like, protein folding, that sort of thing.
Terrible for running websites though.
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Someone I know (not close enough to even call an "internet friend") formed a sadistic bond with chatGPT and will force it to apologize and admit being stupid or something like that when he didn't get the answer he's looking for.
I guess that's better than doing it to a person I suppose.
In the end it's a word generator that has been trained so much it uses facts often enough to be convincing. That's its basic architecture.
You can ask it to give a confidence level to have an indication of how sure it is of the answer.
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It doesn‘t know that it doesn‘t know because it doesn‘t actually know anything. Most models are trained on posts from the internet like this one where people rarely ever just chime in to admit they don‘t have an answer anyway. If you don‘t know something you either silently search the web for an answer or ask.
So since users are the ones asking ChatGPT, the LLM mimics the role of a person that knows the answer. It only makes sense AI is a „confidently wrong“ powerhouse.
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It wouldnt finish a lyric for me yesterday because it was copyrighted. I sid it was public domain and it said "You are absolutely right, given its release date it is under copyright protection"
Wtf
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It’s neither. It’s a design flaw. They’re not designed to be able to handle this type of situation correctly
You out there spreading misinformation, saying they’re a manipulation tool. No, they were never invented for this.
Llm is just next word prediction. The Ai doesn't know whether the output is correct or not. If it's wrong or right. Or fact or a lie.
So no I'm not spreading misinformation. The only thing that might spread misinformation is the AI here.
Took me ages to understand this. I'd thought "If an AI doesn't know something, why not just say so?“
The answer is: that wouldn't make sense because an LLM doesn't know ANYTHING
Wouldn't it make sense for an ai to provide a confidence level though?
I've got 3 million bits of info on this topic but only 4 of them lead to this solution. Confidence level =1.5%
You could do this with logprobs. The language model itself has basically no real insight into its confidence but there's more that you can get out of the model besides just the text.
The problem is that those probabilities are really "how confident are you that this text should come next in this conversation" not "how confident are you that this text is true/accurate." It's a fundamental limitation at the moment I think.
And you can tell clients that it's just made up and not actual confidence, but they will insist that they need it anyways…
That doesn’t justify flat out making shit up to everyone else, though. If a client is told information is made up but they use it anyway, that’s on the client. Although I’d argue that an LLM shouldn’t be in the business of making shit up unless specifically instructed to do so by the client.
I'm not really sure I follow.
Just to be clear, I'm not justifying anything, and I'm not involved in those projects. But the examples I know concern LLMs customized/fine-tuned for clients for specific projects (so not used by others), and those clients asking to have confidence scores, people on our side saying that it's possible but that it wouldn't actually say anything about actual confidence/certainty, since the models don't have any confidence metric beyond "how likely is the next token given these previous tokens" and the clients going "that's fine, we want it anyways".
And if you ask me, LLMs shouldn't be used for any of the stuff it's used for there. It just cracks me up when the solution to "the lying machine is lying to me" is to ask the lying machine how much it's lying. And when you tell them "it'll lie about that too" they go "yeah, ok, that's fine".
And making shit up is the whole functionality of LLMs, there's nothing there other than that. It just can make shit up pretty well sometimes.
It does not have the concept of creating a lie. It is just a probability machine.
And depending on how OpenAI tweaked it this time it will either realize its mistake after being made aware of it or double down even harder on it.
I only use it for coding and it once told me my code not working was due to a bug in Webkit, so I asked it which bug specifically. It created links to bug reports but rewrote the titles of them. So initially it looked like it had numerous sources that backed up its statement but when I clicked on them those were bugs about totally different things.
It would not back down even after I specifically told it "You just made all of this shit up and even rewrote the titles" and got stuck in a loop of "I'm sorry, but you're wrong and I am 100% sure I haven't made a mistake".
Kinda creepy. Especially when you think about the system rewriting reality when it comes to much more important things. Let's just reinvent some history, that would be a good idea, right?
“I literally lost my only friend overnight with no warning,” one person posted on Reddit, lamenting that the bot now speaks in clipped, utilitarian sentences. “The fact it shifted overnight feels like losing a piece of stability, solace, and love.”
If you are this you deserve nothing else.
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your takeaway is that they deserve to be alone?
I guess.
Have some fucking empathy
Wouldn't that be a waste of empathy when we could partake in schadenfreude?
Altman also said that he thinks we’re in an AI “bubble.”
No shit, Sherlock.
The worst part is that they backstepped a bit and made it "friendlier".
Basically undoing that part.
OpenAI just made GPT-5 friendlier, but will that stop user complaints?
GPT-5 was met with lukewarm reception. OpenAI intervened with a personality change. Is that going to be enough?Monica J. White (Digital Trends)
*Few more billion.
I sometimes wonder if silicon valley tech businesses in general will take a reputation hit with investors when this bubble bursts, it's gonna be a doozy.
But then I remember how many greedy idiots there are out there pumping money into grifts in the hope of The Big Win, and my expectations of consequences are tempered.
Honestly, that should have been for the better. If it's meant to be a tool, I would much rather it behave like a tool, rather than trying to be my best friend, or an evil vizier trying to give me advice.
The fact that people got so attached to what is essentially a text generation algorithm that they were mourning its "death" is worrying, especially when it's one that OpenAI has proven themselves to be more than able to modify as they wish.
Just as concerning is OpenAI rolling back the update to make their model "friendlier", or that people were clamouring hand over fist to throw money at the company in the hopes of getting their "friend" back.
That can't possibly be good news, especially when the shareholders find out that they have an iron grip over a portion of their users.
OpenAI just made GPT-5 friendlier, but will that stop user complaints?
GPT-5 was met with lukewarm reception. OpenAI intervened with a personality change. Is that going to be enough?Monica J. White (Digital Trends)
"will spend trillions of dollars on data centers" Hurray!
It's not enough that the planet is dying. They're speeding it up as well!
Ollama bug allows drive-by attacks - patch now
A now-patched flaw in popular AI model runner Ollama allows drive-by attacks in which a miscreant uses a malicious website to remotely target people's personal computers, spy on their local chats, and even control the models the victim's app talks to, in extreme cases by serving poisoned models.GitLab's Security Operations senior manager Chris Moberly found and reported the flaw in Ollama Desktop v0.10.0 to the project's maintainers on July 31. According to Moberly, the team fixed the issue within hours and released the patched software in v0.10.1 — so make sure you've applied the update because Moberly on Tuesday published a technical writeup about the attack along with proof-of-concept exploit code.
"Exploiting this in the wild would be trivial," Moberly told The Register. "There is a little bit of work to build the proper attack infrastructure and to get the interception service working, but it's something an LLM could write pretty easily."
This makes me less enthusiastic about local models. I mean, nothing on the internet is inherently secure and the patch came quickly, but local LLMs being hackable in the first place opens a new can of worms.
Don't want drive-by Ollama attackers snooping on your local chats? Patch now
: Reconfigure local app settings via a 'simple' POST requestJessica Lyons (The Register)
Come fare per ascoltare bene da computer un CD 'protetto'?
Vi ricordate quando nei primi anni 2000 i CD musicali erano fatti in modo che se provavi ad ascoltarli in un computer si sentivano male?
Lo facevano per scoraggiare le copie, fare gli mp3, ecc.
Ma oggi questa cosa si può aggirare?
Ad esempio, di recente ho messo le mani su Minutes to midnight dei Linkin Park (sì, sono un romantico collezionista) e con mia sorpresa, quando lo metto nel pc si sente in quel modo. Sia Linux che Windows.
Mi direte che posso semplicemente ascoltarlo nella radio, e infatti è ciò che faccio di solito, ma mi ha comunque stupito.
Oggigiorno esiste un modo per far leggere bene dal pc un CD di questo tipo?
gnammi coi pixel (art) sulla carta e non il webbe!
Chiedo scusa se mi permetto di arrivare così, lanciando da in un attimo questa bomba che livellerà ogni cosa presente in tutto il raggio tracciato automaticamente dai più stupidi utenti di Internet che si copiano a vicenda… Ma ho ultimissimamente trovato la forma ultima, più che perfettissima, di divertimento con le pixel-art, e non posso […]
octospacc.altervista.org/2025/…
gnammi coi pixel (art) sulla carta e non il webbe!
Chiedo scusa se mi permetto di arrivare così, lanciando in un attimo questa bomba che livellerà ogni cosa presente in tutto il raggio tracciato automaticamente dai più stupidi utenti di Internet che si copiano a vicenda… Ma ho ultimissimamente trovato la forma ultima, più che perfettissima, di divertimento con le pixel-art, e non posso ovviamente tenermela solo per me; sono fin troppo generosa… 🤗Da svariate settimane, infatti, molti stanno fottutamente perdendo la testa per un robo chiamato Wplace… che, prima di capire cosa fosse, mi dava una sensazione di deja-vu talmente grande che non so come spiegare, ma già solo questo dovrebbe far capire quanto questi siti dove si ha una tela di pixel condivisa su cui disegnare non siano nulla di nuovo, e siano semplicemente una moda che ciclicamente ritorna e scompare. E, appunto, essendo questa una moda… non voglio dire che sta già per scemare ad appena 2 mesi dal rilascio, ma le notizie degli ultimissimi giorni presentano talmente tanti problemi per cui, secondo me, la fine è vicina. 😈
Il servizio non riesce a stare dietro l’afflusso enorme di utenti, per esempio, e ora hanno implementato persino una coda di accesso, perché l’alternativa sarebbe avere il server che va down per l’ennesima volta… e ci sono già anche diverse controversie politico-amministrative, che sono sempre simpatiche, oltre ad acquisti in-app opzionali giustificati come donazioni agli sviluppatori, che avvantaggiano chi può pagare a discapito degli altri. In breve: grande monnezza di cui, se non fosse per dare contesto alla mia bomba, nemmeno discuterei… 🤥
Quindi, tornando al mio… Io lo so che disegnare pixel art in programmi di grafica fatti apposta è noioso e per questo non lo farete mai, così come so che in Animal Crossing è troppo restrittivo per via della tela di appena 32×32 (anche se i disegni si possono piazzare per terra e dunque nell’effettivo averne di più grandi combinati, ma vabbè), e anche che fare le pixel art in Excel o equivalenti è divertente solo quando si è a scuola o a lavoro, e mi rendo persino conto che disegnarle dentro Minecraft alla lunga stanca, pure se in multiplayer… Ma allora, regà, a questo punto… famoli su carta! 😳
Mannaggia alla miseria, aò! E che cavolo ci voleva a mettere le cose in questo modo? Semplicemente, si prende un bel quadernino a quadretti — o quadernone, qualora la brama di pixel sia specialmente potente — e, dopo aver un attimo aqquratamente ponderato sulla quantità di lettere Q in questa mia frase, con degli utensili da sqrittura e/o disegno minuzioso — vanno bene penne colorate, pennarelli a punta fine, o altrimenti pastelli se vi piace rompervi le mani a furia di calcare, vedete un po’ voi — si inizia a lavorare di manine; e non di indici, come ormai voi zetini fate in ogni situazione senza soluzione di continuità alquna! 💣💥Ma davvero, comunque: se vi piace creare o ricopiare i disegnini pixelosi, provate un po’ questa opzione. Completamente al di fuori delle meccaniche merdose del software online moderno, senza disservizi, senza tempi di attesa imposti tra un pixel e l’altro o comunque limiti artificiali in generale, ma solo ed esclusivamente gnam. A onor del vero, devo ammettere che mi sento un po’ una vecchia nonna bacucca a fare questo lavoro qui sulla carta, eh… però è comunque rilassante e intrigante e, nel bene o nel male, i quadratini fatti a manella non saranno mai perfetti, quindi ogni copia del disegno sarà effettivamente unica e irreplicabile (quindi, pure alla strafaccia degli NFT!) 😘
L’unica cosa che mi chiedo è… se per gli AI-bro la scusa per non poter disegnare a mano è che gli manca il materiale, per i moda-della-pixel-art-online-bro invece cosa sarà? Certamente non i costi, visto che bastano penne di merda, e non servono per forza i pennarelli da 1 euro e 60 centesimi ciascuno, come invece io essendo principessa (“si si, ‘a principessa de Fregene“) pretendo… io temo sarà la mancanza di skill da un lato, e di pazienza dall’altro, visto che comunque fare un pixel sul quaderno (ed è irreale questa frase, ma ok) è a lungo andare più tosto che cliccare i tastini; e, mancando sia il CTRL+Z che gomme decenti (i pennarelli sono indelebili, e i pastelli si sciordano con la gomma), non sono ammesse distrazioni. ☠️
Comunque, qui stavo ricopiando un disegno di Hatsune Miku, giusto per, ed è veramente gnam. Non rinnegando completamente le comodità dell’hi-tech, ho caricato il riferimento su Pignio, dopo averlo trovato dal web, per non perderlo, e i crediti sono lì (anche se la pagina originale è ed era morta, sad). L’unica cosa che oggettivamente è un problema, secondo me, sono i colori… io ne ho appena 7, a parte il nero (e 3 li ho comprati solo stamattina, solo gli altri avevo prima!), e chiaramente le difficoltà ci sono: per simulare (male) il verde acqua scuro di contorno sui capelli di Miku ho dovuto mischiare azzurro, verdino e grigio… e la pelle ho dovuto farla gialla, mamma mia. Prossima volta, meglio se mi invento un’illustrazione mia… 💔
#art #carta #drawing #HatsuneMiku #paper #PixelArt
SpaceX says states should dump fiber plans, give all grant money to Starlink
SpaceX says states should dump fiber plans, give all grant money to Starlink
SpaceX seeks more cash, calls fiber “wasteful and unnecessary taxpayer spending.”…Jon Brodkin (Ars Technica)
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I’m a starlink customer and think it’s one of the best advancements in the past decade as it provides real access to rural addresses. The side effects of this is nearly immeasurable.
Spacex needs to STFU about this though. Fiber should continue to be deployed where possible.
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Fiber should be deployed to rural addresses like yours (and should've been a long time ago). Instead, that money was funneled to the likes of Time Warner and Comcast who never even followed through on their part of the deal. Now, SpaceX is getting funneled the cash.
I'm super thankful that WA State supports and gives assistance to counties building out public LUDs for fiber access, many paying attention to rural communities first. I escaped Comcast two years ago because of it.
It can’t, and the taxes you would pay to support fiber to my home would be extreme.
But fiber to a local wireless solution? Sure. But even that’s not possible for everyone, and they were expensive and unreliable until starlink started showing up. LEO internet has its benefits.
Except that US ISPs have already been provided upwards of $80b to roll out a fiber optic backbone for rural connections, and have instead largely pocketed the funds and sat on their hands.
It has largely fallen to smaller communities to incorporate their own local ISPs and manage their own roll-outs, as such projects aren’t viewed as worthwhile for private companies.
Honestly, if Australia could roll out a national fiber backbone (almost a decade ago!) across the same approximate landmass as the contiguous 48 states at less than 10% of the overall population; there is no valid reason that the wealthiest nation to have ever existed can’t also do so.
Even if a Federal program (not under this administration, obviously) was to just run fibre parallel to the existing interstate highways, and leave the last (20) miles to local utilities - it would be cheaper, faster and more reliable than LEO - and without all the additional negatives that come with that!
Fiber should be deployed to rural addresses like yours
I don't disagree, it should be deployed to rural areas. It's never going to happen though, it's just not profitable.
Sure, electrical infrastructure was deployed to the whole country, but it doesn't need to be replaced and upgraded as frequently as Internet infrastructure does. Even if some rural areas do get fiber at some point, don't expect the infrastructure to be upgraded regularly enough to stay comparable to denser areas.
You're never going to find a company willing to do that job. We could do it at the national level, but I have my doubts that the country is headed in that direction.
That's what the subsidies are for. Plus, fiber does not necessarily need to be upgraded after installation (especially rural, where there's less customers in general). It's not copper or coax, it doesn't have the same limits, and can usually handle huge amounts of data (the limit primarily being the transceivers at both ends). The costs of upgrading would also likely be lower than the initial install, something that couldn't be said about providers like Starlink. Fiber is about the most efficient, cost effective (especially in the long term), and future proof way to provide internet. Starlink is overall much more expensive to maintain.
But yes, without the local, state, and/or federal governments supporting it, people in rural areas won't have a choice.
That's what the subsidies are for.
Yeah I'm not in favor of that, not again. The US has provided funding to ISPs to be used explicitly in expanding rural broadband access, we've done it on multiple occasions. Every time ISPs simply pocket the money and do nothing.
Fool me once, twice, three times...
So hey, if the US wants to have the FCC do it themselves, just hire crews to lay fiber, then sure. It'll be inefficient and expensive, but it would at least get done. But I'm not in favor of giving a dime to the existing ISPs...
You miss my point. My original comment says as much, that the subsidies all went to big telecom, but it should have gone to local utility districts for local buildouts of fiber. I'm literally sending this message from my LUD-funded fiber that my state subsidized, and my ISP is a local company exclusive to my county's fiber network. It's fantastic, and what should be getting the funding instead of Comcast, Time Warner, and now SpaceX.
Most of the addresses my LUD serves are unincorporated, including mine. So, it actually is possible, if your state and county give enough of a shit.
Well you're absolutely right then, sorry for the confusion.
Nationalized fiber networks or locally managed municipal fiber has always been a winning proposition. I've heard so many success stories about those rollouts and the only opposition to them has come from big ISPs who are scared they'll be replaced (because they should be). Unfortunately, that's a really strong opposition... Those ISPs have so much money and so much power, they're managing to shift legislation, pass laws that make municipal fiber systems illegal (for the benefit of the consumers of course).
For nieve signal distances, that can sometimes be true. That's not how starlink works however. It bounces the signal between satellites, each adding latency. Overall, fibre wins in almost every situation.
The bigger problem is saturation. Most things you can apply to radio waves can be applied to light in a fibre. The difference is you can have multiple fibres on the same run. This massively increases bandwidth, and so prevents congestion.
Just checked the numbers. Starlink is up at 550km. That means a minimum round trip of 1100km. In order to beat a fibre run, you are looking at over 2000km distance. Even halving that to (optimistically) account for angles, that's still a LONG run to an initial data center.
This makes no sense on the face of it. Let's say the satellites are 100 km (or miles) above the earth. If I was to connect to a server 10 km (or miles) away, my complete route over fiber is 10 km. My complete route over satellite is just over 200 km (assuming it's between those two points). Now, let's say the server is 500 km (we'll assume the earth is flat over this expanse, even though that's about 5° around the earth). So our fiber link has to go 500 km, more or less. Our satellite link has to go about 540 km, best case scenario. If we raise those satellites, it only gets worse (it's probably closer to 860, best case scenario, for satellites at 350 km).
I just did a quick check, and the curvature of the earth over that 500 km scenario is about 20 km (it won't be 20 miles for 500 miles).
Now, you might start to argue that were talking about straight lines, and that's true for satellites but not for fiber. And that might be true. But we've already shown that the hop to space and back is already increasing that distance by 60% or more. But those two or so straight lines are just til you get to the Starlink hub, so you aren't going to reduce this much more than the numbers above. And yes, fiber will have some extra distance due to following the grid rather than straight lines. But, again, that only matters to the ISP hub and then you're back to the same distances.
The other argument you listed is the speed of light in space/atmosphere vs. fiber, and it's a valid point. Not there are some interesting things done with guiding light to the center of the fiber, which is another way of saying there are multiple refractive indexes, but let's go with a refractive index of 1.5. That means the speed of light in glass is 2/3×c, or that light in space can go about 50% farther. And that's about the added distance for using LEO satellites.
tldr: All the benefits of transmitting through air or space are basically negated by the added distance, where the best-case scenario is only slightly better than the worst-case scenario for fiber.
Honestly, I think starlink is a fantastic idea in general, but this is clearly bullshit. Starlink works well in tandem with fiber, not as a replacement.
It's just never going to be as cost effective as installed fiber. Fiber is obviously the right technology to use in heavily populated areas i.e. for the vast majority of Internet users. And where the population is sparse and laying fiber for individual customers is cost prohibitive, that is where satellite connectivity shines. If SpaceX or anyone else is pretending otherwise, they're being blatantly deceitful and malicious. That's not in Internet users' best interest.
As fiber is rolled out more, i see less and less why it would be cost prohibitive?
All you need to do to connect a remote place is lay a cable. More expensive if you need dig a trench and put the cable in there. But if it can be done for electricity it can be done for fiber.
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Well the companies that want to lay fiber aren't always the same ones who own the telephone poles. If they have to pay for that, that adds to costs.
Also, above ground cables are more exposed and need to be repaired more frequently. Falling trees can sever cables and simply swinging in the wind puts more wear on the cables over time. All together, it means that burying cables is more cost effective in the long term, but present higher upfront costs. Whereas above ground cables are cheaper upfront, but more expensive over time.
The high upfront costs are the bigger deal, but in general, they just don't want to lay a mile of cable for a couple of users, regardless of how they're doing it.
In France they authorised air hanging fiber, so they just use electric poles and hang the fiber under the 220 volt lines, as a last resort.
Cheap as hell. Or, where there's a will there is a way.
Starlink still requires ground stations, and those ground stations can and are a limiting factor. I was up at a cabin that had Starlink, and service is still in the "better than nothing" phase.
There is concern for fucking up things like radio telescopes. Also, creating a Kessler syndrome event. "But LEO wouldn't have an issue with that because it would burn up". Two things:
- Everything in LEO being destroyed is still really bad. Astronauts would likely die.
- Objects in lower orbits can get ejected into higher orbits and hit things there. Kessler sydrome in LEO could potentially start a chain reaction in higher orbits.
Plus, the EU and China are understandably worried about Musk being the only game up there and want to deploy their own equivalent systems. So now there's not just one system of satellites threatening Kessler syndrome, but possibly three.
Just roll out fiber everywhere like we have with electricity.
While it is possible for objects in orbit to be knocked into a higher orbit, it's certainly not common. It basically requires a collision with another object in a highly elliptical orbit, this is not a kind of orbit we use very often.
Also, these low orbit constellations are simply nowhere near the majority of satellites, up in geostationary orbit. It's not realistic to imagine any debris from LEO ever reaching GSO, the distance between is just too vast. In general, Kessler syndrome would only extend downward from higher orbit, extending up to a higher orbit would be extremely unlikely.
Also, while astronauts could die, we keep enough emergency escape vehicles docked for the entire iss crew. NASA is full of smart people and they're generally risk adverse these days, I don't think anyone would die, but it would certainly be a shame to evacuate the iss.
Plus, the EU and China are understandably worried about Musk being the only game up there and want to deploy their own equivalent systems. So now there's not just one system of satellites threatening Kessler syndrome, but possibly three.
This is in fact a worrying situation. Not because I think Kesler syndrome is a realistic concern, but because there's only so much space in low earth orbit. I really don't like one company having a monopoly on low orbit communications, but having layers and layers of satellite constellations also seems like a dangerous situation.
Just roll out fiber everywhere like we have with electricity.
I'm all for that in theory, but whenever we dedicate funds to that cause... telecoms just walk away with it. If the US isn't interested in holding them accountable, I don't really see any reason to throw more money their way. That said, Starlink is doing fine, I see no reason to throw money at them either.
Starlink works well in tandem with fiber, not as a replacement.
It doesn't even work well in tandem.
Starlink has a single benefit going for it right now: Lack of uptake.
They only have a swath of spectrum, and that has a physical upper limit to how much information it can carry, in total. So does fiber. But, Starlink gets to share that with all users (Much like how cable internet works, its shared bandwidth for everyone on the loop). Fiber, you get your dedicated pipe.
This isn't even getting to view obstruction (A plane will cause a drop out), latency, jitter, etc. These are all physics problem that just cannot be solved without violating the laws of physics. Latency, at a minimum, is 2.6 ms, and that's just for the first leg.
It's crazy to say it doesn't work well in tandem... I mean, it's demonstrable, If it didn't work, people wouldn't use it, but they do. And there is no other way to reach users in some places. Starlink can reach users that only a long range wireless solution can work for. There are some other long range wireless solutions, but this one does work.
Look, I don't like Elon, I don't like monopolies, I'm not a secret shill for SpaceX, but I can admit the truth right in front of me. You don't have to stretch the truth to say Starlink isn't a good system for the vast majority of people, so why do it? Why create a false narrative? Why get all defensive about a technology?
And finally, I do not see any reason to care about an extra 5 ms latency.
And there is no other way to reach users in some places.
There is, if we decided to instead of giving Elon billions every few months, we used that money to expand the fiber networks.
Starlink can reach users that only a long range wireless solution can work for. There are some other long range wireless solutions, but this one does work.
There are myriad technology solutions that are both viable, and already being used. Capitalism means we don't deploy them. Oligarchy means we instead choose to do things that are more expensive, but happen to benefit a friendly oligarch.
You don’t have to stretch the truth to say Starlink isn’t a good system for the vast majority of people, so why do it?
Except, it isn't. Its just the one with the hype.
Some people live in places that aren't connected to large electrical grids, they have local generation and micro grids for a small community. Isolated mountains or small islands, or deserts are good examples of these situations. So if connecting to the electrical grid wasn't realistic I'm willing to bet that a fiber connection also isn't realistic.
It's hard to believe you think fiber can work for literally everything. I really don't know why you're bothering to dig in on this issue, it's so easy to prove otherwise. I hadn't even mentioned the use case of vehicles yet, boats, planes, trains, trucks, campers, obviously you can't run fiber to a vehicle. Or truly remote locations where people don't live, but researches work there, Antarctic bases, etc.
Also, I think you misunderstood my last line. I'm saying Starlink isn't right for most people. I'm just not making things up to say that.
So if connecting to the electrical grid wasn’t realistic I’m willing to bet that a fiber connection also isn’t realistic.
If fiber isn't possible due to electrical grids being non-existent... A power hungry sat transceiver will likely be a non-starter, too.
It’s hard to believe you think fiber can work for literally everything.
I don't think it can. I also don't think Starlink can work for literally everything, either. There are better, and faster, and cheaper solutions like Microwave backhauls and cellular data service for the last mile.
I hadn’t even mentioned the use case of vehicles yet, boats, planes, trains, trucks, campers, obviously you can’t run fiber to a vehicle.
Boats are the one outlier here, that cannot be reach via cell service, with a fraction of the cost of Starlink. And sure, boats can use it, and boats should pay the full cost of the package. No need for government money to fund them, they didn't need it before, and don't need it now. Boaters were quite satisfied paying their Iridium bills in the past.
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The point is, unless you’re playing some hyper competitive game where a 30ms difference in reaction time is noticeable (this is less than 1 frame in a fighting game, for example) Starlink works perfectly well. Lower numbers are better, but for games you only need to compare that number to human reaction times (150-200ms) to see that both are small values less than the reaction time of any person.
Previous satellite Internet using satellites in geosynchronous orbit had 1500ms latency, for comparison.
Previous satellite Internet using satellites in geosynchronous orbit had 1500ms latency, for comparison.
Yes, and are far more stable, not hyped, and are already at pretty much peak congestion. Starlink will get progressively worse, the more people use it. Right now, it's over provisioned.
The point is, unless you’re playing some hyper competitive game where a 30ms difference in reaction time is noticeable (
Ever try a voice call with 30ms of latency?
Yes, and are far more stable, not hyped, and are already at pretty much peak congestion. Starlink will get progressively worse, the more people use it. Right now, it’s over provisioned.
They were not more stable. Any occlusion, including thick clouds, would degrade the signal to being unusable. I used Hughsnet for years, then swapped to cellular (100ms+ latency) and finally to Starlink. Starlink is a pretty solid 100Mb/s, with low jitter, packet loss and latency.
Ever try a voice call with 30ms of latency?
Yeah, I use voice chat every day, it's not noticeable.
They were not more stable. Any occlusion, including thick clouds, would degrade the signal to being unusable
You have the same issue with Starlink...
Yeah, I use voice chat every day, it’s not noticeable.
The people on the call do...
The people on the call do...
LMAO you're really doubling down?
No, they absolutely will not notice a 30ms delay. Why would you even say something so absurd?
You have the same issue with Starlink…
No, because the Starlink satellites are 350 miles above the Earth while geosynchronous satellites are 13,000 miles above the earth. Because of the Inverse-Square Law they can transmit a signal that is orders of magnitude stronger.
In addition, geosync satellites are locked at a single fixed position and received by a single dish antenna so any obstruction along the line will disrupt the signal.
Starlink’s recievers use a 1200 element x-band phased array so it can lock on to multiple sources and track them as they move across the sky. Each satellite link is its own channel. Losing contact with one satellite simply causes the data to be routed to one of the 4-5 other locked satellites.
The people on the call do…
30ms of latency is less than 1/3rd of the latency of most Bluetooth headsets that people use every day to talk on their phones. It is not noticeable at all.
Ever try a voice call with 30ms of latency?
Lol what? You're not gonna notice a 30ms delay in a voice call...
@ubergeek@lemmy.today downvote with no reply even though you were painfully wrong. Sad.
Yeh, 30ms is still inside the haas delay.
If you are a professional listener (sound engineer, musician, dancer) then you can probably perceive it (in a similar way that eyes theoretically only need 25fps, but 60/120/144 is noticeably better).
In 30ms, sound can travel 10 meters.
So, if you've ever had a conversation with someone across a classroom, you've had a conversation with 30ms latency.
For data, 30ms is 8100 km for electricity over copper, or 6000km for light over fibre.
Meaning 30ms over fibre (considering no transmission delays) would be roughly the direct distance between US and UK.
So yeh, 30ms is nothing
where a 30ms difference in reaction time is noticeable (this is less than 1 frame in a fighting game, for example)
You have some pretty bad understanding of how netcode works if you think a 30ms ping in an online multi-player game means your game or input is delayed by 30ms. It's a lot more complicated than that, and especially in games with bad netcode you will absolutely notice a difference between 10ms or 30ms ping
Oh, please explain the complexity to me like I’m a system administrator with only 25 years of experience. I didn’t realize that computers could connect to each other over a network until 3 days ago, imagine my surprise.
You could start with the fact that many online game servers (ex: Valorant, Apex, Overwatch) artificially increase everyone’s latency at the server, except for the people with higher network latency in order to compensate for lag through a technique called lag compensation. So having 10 ms ping and 50 ms ping just means the server introduces a 40ms delay on the player with 10ms ping so both players experience the same latency.
Or maybe you could explain how game state updates happen with a set frequency and the gap between the state updates can also be adjusted by the server for each client so that state updates are sent to higher latency users earlier in the update window. I mean this technique is essentially lag compensation as well, but it applies to how the client updates are sent instead of being applied to incoming packets.
Or, you could avoid all this and simply declare me incorrect by pointing at a game that doesn’t use lag compensation or otherwise move the goal posts so that you don’t actually have to explain the complexity that you were hinting at.
Uh, how often are you using the Internet to connect to a computer in your home town? Maybe 5% of the time?
I've never used Starlink, but with a basic understanding of geography and optics, I'm going to bet that in most scenarios the latency difference between Starlink and fiber is negligible, sometimes even being faster on Starlink, depending on the situation.
That said, I'm not suggesting Starlink is a realistic replacement for fiber, just that latency isn't the big issue. (It has other serious issues)
Ok, so actual question, How useful are CDN endpoints these days with https everywhere? Because most encrypted content is unique to a single web user, caching isn't super useful. Also you can't cache live content like video calls or online games. I'd imagine the percentage of cacheable content is actually fairly low these days. But like I said, I don't actually know the answer to this, i'd be curious to hear your take.
Edit: it's weird to get down votes for a question.
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HTTPS can in fact be cached, and most modern browsers will do so unless given a header or something to tell it not to.
Source: Devtools network tab + developer.mozilla.org/en-US/do…
HTTP caching
The HTTP cache stores a response associated with a request and reuses the stored response for subsequent requests.developer.mozilla.org
Browsers partition the cache by "origin" now though, so while it can cache HTTPS content, it can't effectively cache shared content (It'll store multiple independent copies).
So Youtube still works fine, but Google Fonts is pointless now.
Edit: Oh yeah, and any form of shared JavaScript/CSS/etc. CDN is now also useless and should be avoided, but that's always been the case.
Live video that someone else in your area is also watching is cacheable. Images to load a page, very cacheable. The personal stuff is mostly HTML specific to you but that's quite small.
I live near DE-CIX and have fiber. So a decent chunk of web services I use is available with a latency of under 5ms. And everything else hosted in a European datacenter with under 20ms.
So almost all of my internet traffic has a lower latency than starlink has under ideal conditions
That makes a lot of assumptions about what I am pinging, and the networking context.
In my case I was quoting my average ping in VRChat.
How can you quote 10-50 times higher and then tell me no when I calculate what that means for me?
Is it because latency does not scale in that way?
- Run a
tracerouteliketraceroute cnn com - Kill that by
ctrl-cat the third line. - Ping that third IP address.
Don't try to ping UK.battle.net or your numbers will be skewed by everything in between.
About 5ms.
Based on the various replies, it sounds like the poster I was originally replying to does not mean pings in any context.
They just mean in this context. Along optimal routes. Right?
Is it because latency does not scale in that way?
Yes, your understanding is fundamentally flawed. Starlink adds a fixed latency on top, if you ping to a server was 2ms with fiber and 52ms with starlink, then your ping to a server that would be 100ms with fiber would be 150ms with starlink
Hmmm ditch lightning fast and stable fiber for the mediocre speed and unstable micro satellite internet connection controlled by a petty asshole...
What to do, what to do?
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Just think how much control he can have if he owns the medium which people access the internet.
And he'd only do good things with that power /s
The tech behind starlink is good. LEO satellites play a purpose. Upsides are they have less latency than GEO satellites. Speeds are the same though.
Downside is you have to deploy them evenly as a constellation or else you get service inturruption. Which means if you look at any population map 90% of your constellation is going to be underutilized, and the other 10% is going to be full.
The real target audience should be mobile broadband. Airplanes, ships, RVs, cars, phones, etc.
But what do you do in the meantime? Fill in the unutilized constillation with rural residential. You can't compete with fiber tech, so you sue the govt for free money.
Read this quick before the people selling generators get it buried: wtsp.com/article/money/consume…
The gas company finally figured out how to deflect their responsibility in the matter: they say that the generator owners "didn't register" their generators, but... now that it has been a year, has the gas company done anything to improve service capacity?
Anyway: the tie-in with Starlink is, anything like this works great until everybody tries to use it all at once at high capacity. When all 53,000 residents of Grand Island Nebraska decide to stream different high definition videos all at once? A good fiber system can handle that, Starlink? I'm curious...
10 Tampa Bay
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I believe Florida's recent build-out of utility scale natural gas plants is driven, in part, by their ability to ramp up and down virtually instantly.
However, the linked story is about a residential neighborhood where lots of homeowners installed individual natural gas powered generators for their homes. Then, when the public grid failed in a hurricane, they all switched on their "whole home, natural gas powered" generators at once for the first time and the natural gas supply to the neighborhood was nowhere near up to the task of delivering all that fuel at that rate.
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Fiber all the way, especially if it is owned by the community. That would simply ensure that Musk nor TelCos can't fuck around with people. Fast speed, no data caps, low prices, and not being at the mercy of some wealthy jackhole would be wins across the board.
Also, if America has a 2nd Civil War, fiber will be much more safe than relying on sats - those can be shot down, or worse, Musk can cut off the good guys from having internet. It is simply harder to sabotage if the wires are underground and cannot be readily seen by hostile actors. As seen in Ukraine, the fucker has absolutely no compunctions against disabling the internet at key moments.
"fiber will be much more safe than relying on sats"
Spoken like someone who has never had some idiot in a backhoe chop a fiber bundle...multiple times in a week.
We have a saying in IT. Always carry a 1ft section of single-mode fiberoptic when hiking. If you ever get lost, just bury that sucker and some dipshit in a backhoe will be out there in a hour to cut it in half.
Spoken like someone who has never had some idiot in a backhoe chop a fiber bundle…multiple times in a week.
And, when it happens, it generally gets repaired in hours. You cannot launch a new constellation in hours.
True, but your're comparing a single fiber optic line to an entire network of satellites. Blow up one, and they simply route traffic around it. Blow up 10, and you might have a small moving deadzone that removes service for a few minutes.
If you want to compare accurately, look at the time it takes to replace the cable infrastructure for an entire nation vs the time it takes to relaunch all the star link satellites. We started using satellites in the first place because it was the fastest (and in many cases, cheapest) way to get TV coverage anywhere on the planet.
You understand EMPs wouldn't affect one sat, right? Or a capture net can hit an entire train?
If you want to compare accurately, look at the time it takes to replace the cable infrastructure for an entire nation vs the time it takes to relaunch all the star link satellites.
That can, and has been done in a couple of weeks. It happens somewhat regularly.
leadventgrp.com/blog/submarine…
10-20 days to launch a repair crew, and another week to affect the repair. At a few hundred million in costs.
A single rocket launch it minimally a year of planning. And BILLIONS in costs.
We started using satellites in the first place because it was the fastest (and in many cases, cheapest) way to get TV coverage anywhere on the planet.
Well, yes, because they are placed in a high orbit (Not LEO) generally, in order to cover massive patterns with ONE WAY signalling (Aside from the one uplink).
This is a host of difference between myriad 2-way ground stations.
That can, and has been done in a couple of weeks. It happens somewhat regularly.
leadventgrp.com/blog/submarine…
Whoops, there you go again comparing the impact and resolution of a single cable to an entire national network.
Whoops, there you go again comparing the impact and resolution of a single cable to an entire national network.
That's... um... how it works? It's generally one, maybe two, cables connecting continents:
dabrownstein.com/2015/06/30/ch…
I mean, some continents, like the US, have myriad cables connecting. And purposefully sabotaging these is almost as challenging as repairing them.
So, generally, "nations" are not connected via undersea cables, continents are.
So, yes, repairing one, maybe two, would be reconnecting an entire national network. Which is STILL cheaper than replacing a mass of Starlink sats... Which, btw, need replacing routinely anyways, because their orbits decay purposefully.
So, every 5 years, we need spend tens of billions to launch another set of trains, just to have them fall into the ocean after 5 years of service. Just to obtain a service that is cheaper, and doesn't require nearly as much regular investment if we just used fiber.
space.com/spacex-starlink-sate…
I get the feeling you don't understand the economics, physics, and infrastructure of various connectivity systems. And, you also don't understand that without connected ground stations, served by those "at risk fiber networks on the ground" (That you purport as very risky), Starlink doesn't work, either.
Starlink satellites: Facts, tracking and impact on astronomy
Are Starlink satellites a grand innovation or an astronomical menace?Tereza Pultarova (Space)
That’s… um… how it works? It’s generally one, maybe two, cables connecting continents: dabrownstein.com/2015/06/30/ch…I mean, some continents, like the US, have myriad cables connecting. And purposefully sabotaging these is almost as challenging as repairing them.
I think you didn't quite understand. I'm not talking about just undersea cables. An accurate comparison for the impact of blowing up the entire Starlink constellation would be to remove ALL the fiber optic cables in an entire nation, not just the undersea cables. That is a more accurate comparison.
I may not have an expert level of economic knowledge, but the fact that Starlink exists and it can provide better service than rural broadband programs or the extensive terrestrial mobile broadband networks (which still use satellites BTW) is a pretty good indicator that it is viable.
Frankly this entire statement is insulting, and you should retract it.
I get the feeling you don’t understand the economics, physics, and infrastructure of various connectivity systems.
Around the World in Submarine Internet Cable
As we attempt to navigate the ever-expanding seas of data in the information economy, we can overlook the extent to which data streams run underneath the world’s seas to create a quite concre…Musings on Maps
An accurate comparison for the impact of blowing up the entire Starlink constellation would be to remove ALL the fiber optic cables in an entire nation, not just the undersea cables. That is a more accurate comparison.
Oh, so you mean a very viable attack today (Taking out swaths of constellations) is on par with destroying a sizeable segment of a web of fiber that is very interconnected, and very resilient to outages due to a single fiber?
I may not have an expert level of economic knowledge, but the fact that Starlink exists and it can provide better service than rural broadband programs or the extensive terrestrial mobile broadband networks (which still use satellites BTW) is a pretty good indicator that it is viable.
It's viable because we are funding that, with gobs of money, instead of using those gobs of money to fund something that is "Buy once, cry once" instead of Starlinks "must be replaced in total, every 5 years, at billions per train".
Frankly this entire statement is insulting, and you should retract it.
No, and frankly, you're digging yourself into a deeper hole.
Alright. Let's clear this up.
Are satellite links easier to take down than a fiber link? No. It takes specialized weapons manfactured by state level actors to take out a a single satellite, let alone a whole constellation. I can take a pair of wire clippers, and take out every cable link in my neighborhood in a afternoon. Russia fairly regularly sabotages undersea cables just by "accidentally" dragging an anchor over them.
Is Starlink funded partially by public money? Absolutely yes, along with every other telecom provider. Hell, we gave them the public TV bands as compensation for builfijg a public fiber network (which they never even fucking did!)
Do Starlink satellite need to be replaced at extreme cost? Yes, but so does terresrrial network infrastructure. There is a reason why your internet isn't 12kbps anymore... As far as the cost goes, the consumers determine if the cost is worth the benefit, and so far the answer is 'yes'.
Ever wonder why Ukraine was using Starlink for network connections in the first place? Maybe it's becuse the vulnerable terrestrial based networks were damaged or taken out of service months ago, and you can't exactly get a contractor to go into a warzone and lay down new cables.
Your points, that satellites based networks are more vulnerable and prohibitively expensive is simply not compatible with reality.
Are satellite links easier to take down than a fiber link? No
Depends on what we're talking about.
Is it easy, in any conceivable scenario, to take out an entire nation's web of cabled infra? No, not at all, and would require the same state actor level threat it would to take out a satellite train. It's just cheaper to do it in space, and less prone to failing than it would be to try a land-based infra attack.
Do Starlink satellite need to be replaced at extreme cost? Yes, but so does terresrrial network infrastructure.
We do not need to replace all the fiber, and all the coax, and all the transceivers every 5 years, at a cost of 10s of billions. At most? You need to replace stuff in a DC/DSLAM/termination point and the client side. All the fiber and coax in between is still usable for 20 years, even. And the endpoints don't need to be upgraded physically, most times, it's a software update pushed.
Ever wonder why Ukraine was using Starlink for network connections in the first place?
Because Russia bombed their power plants, all the cabling, and it was a literal war zone. And relied on infrastructure that was terrestrial outside of the war zone. And to replace all the infra (Outside of the power plants) will still be cheaper than a couple of trains being launched for StarLink.
Your points, that satellites based networks are more vulnerable and prohibitively expensive is simply not compatible with reality.
You do know StarLink can be taken down by targeting their ground stations, right?
To put into scale how wrong you are about taking out a satellite, the last satellite the US shot down was in 2008, and it took a specially modified 9 million dollar missile to shoot it down. A Starlink satellite with launch costs included is just under 2 million dollars. Not only is it technologically difficult to take out a satellite, but it's much more costly to shoot them down than it is to put them up.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operatio…
It's not a trivial thing to take out a single satellite, let alone a whole constellation of satellites.
You literally could not be more wrong about this.
...Russia bombed their power plants, all the cabling, and it was a literal war zone.
Here you are acknowledge that ground-based systems are very vulnerable to attack. Guess what still works in Ukraine right now (or at least when Elon allows it to work). You got it. Starlink.
How about another comparison. Starlink has a full project estimated cost of ~10 billion dollars, that's with launches and satellites. The estimated cost to rebuild Ukraine's telecom network is 4.7 billion dollars, and that is just for the damaged infrastructure in Ukraine. Starlink has already generated 72 million in profit (not revenue, but profit!)
We gave telecom providers 200 billion in tax breaks to build a fiber network in the US, and they didn't even finish the job. 20x what Starlink's estimated cost is.
Serioualy, the scale of how wrong you are about all of this is staggering.
Here you are acknowledge that ground-based systems are very vulnerable to attack.
Which includes the ground stations that Starlink uses.
We are talking about Starlink here, correct? Owned by Elon?
That said, all satellite networks are subject to dying if their ground-stations are taken offline, so if "all the fiber for a country goes down", so does Starlink.
We are talking about Starlink here, correct? Owned by Elon
No, we are talking about how hard of a target a satellite based network is vs a terrestrial fiber network. Starlink is being used purely as an example here, but is by no means a complete representation of all aspects of the technology.
That said, all satellite networks are subject to dying if their ground-stations are taken offline...
Yes, but they can route traffic between satellites and back down to working ground stations. Theoretically, one working ground station could keep the satellite network connected to the entire Internet. Hence why Starlink still works over Ukraine, and why it is such a big deal when Elon shuts it off.
I'm just trying to understand why this argument is even happening.
You seem to basically agree with them. What's even the point?
It is simply harder to sabotage if the wires are underground and cannot be readily seen by hostile actors.
This statement is not correct. It is the topic being discussed. Fiber network are more vulnerable than satellite networks. It takes specialized weapons to take out a single satellite link. Any idiot with wire clippers can take out a fiber link, and it happens all the time. Fiber networks are more difficult to replace at scale than a satellite network, and individuals links are more important to fiber network than they are to satellite networks.
The thread topic is SpaceX saying we should dump all fiber plans and go with Starlink.
I had to clarify what you were arguing about, because otherwise I was going to yell at you about latency issues and data throttling and the risks of Kessler syndrome and about how bad it is to put critical infrastructure in the hands of a single company.
What's dumb about this statement is all Elon would have to do is market to all the places where broadband companies refuse to go and be affordable. tRump already killed the rural broadband initiatives. There's literally no competition and word-of-mouth could probably pull in more who are unhappy with their broadband provider.
However, capitalism and greed are cancers that know no limit...
Basic physics says satellites using Ku-band or whatever they use can't compete with fibre.
Satellite internet has its uses like for ships at sea.
No, please no
We don't need thousands of satellites to provide internet, the entire idea and design of Starlink is utterly stupid.
I can look up at the sky not and see stars and... Those fucking star link satellites.
We're already close enough to a Kessler effect scenario without adding thousands of satellites, and with governments world wide now ready to just shoot satellites (seriously, can everyone please stop voting for dumb fucks while we're at it?) can we please PLEASE stop this?
Just use fiber internet or where not possible, use geostationary satellites. We don't need semi low latency everywhere
There are areas of the planet where there is no signal or fibre. Clearly as you and I are capable of posting on an online social; you and I are not in one of these dead spots but they do exist. And some of these areas have to exist in order to provide sustainable lifestyle for the other more built up areas (farmland gets left in the dark much of the time)
Just something to think about before you run around running your mouth talking down with privilege of where you’re speaking about it.
And before you even utter the phrase ‘they should…’ or ‘someone should’
No. Stop. You first. you’re someone. You up end your life and go live there and fix it ‘sustainably’ and bump into all the problems with your online solutions and work it out and fix it before you talk about what everyone else should be doing in areas and lifestyles you don’t care to exist in enough to empathize or understand yet still benefit from.
And why is it only a problem with OTHER COUNTRIES do it while you sit there mute as musk does it?? So it’s all ok that he does it under the name of capitalism but should any other country act in their own agency you suddenly get all crunchy about it?
No. Absolutely not buying this ‘ok for me but not ok for thee’ bull rap.
There are areas of the planet where there is no signal or fibre.
So, we should take the billions per train launch, and install microwave backhauls and cellular service to cover those dead zones.
Why? That won't accomplish much.
I just want people to know we are Fucked. This stupid fucking satellite Internet race is going to destroy Earth's orbital infrastructure.
Oh hell no. Fuck off with this won’t stand up to the bully but will stand on everyone else you think you can bully bullshit.
You are being the exact reason we are fucked.
Coward.
We have to stand up together, there's literally nothing I can do by myself. That's why I need to let people know, so they stand with me.
I'm sorry if you feel like you're being bullied.
Telesat Lightspeed - Enterprise-class LEO Network
This is "Telesat Lightspeed - Enterprise-class LEO Network" by Telesat on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.Vimeo
Except StarLink cannot possibly provide the same bandwidth, latency, and throughput a fiber connection can. Because of physics.
I can either share my 10G symmetrical connection with nobody, or with 200 others.
And, Fiber costs me $70 a month. Starlink, with worse performance, costs 4x more.
That's the point. Musk wants control over the entire internet.
If all the other internet infrastructure was abandoned, he would be the most powerful person in history. Want to regulate him afterwards? He could just shut down the internet in your region until you accept his terms.
Musk wants control over the entire internet.
This is the number one reason my friend and I refused to even consider StarLink. We don't live in the US and do not want all our traffic going through there.
TIL 120 is 4 x 70....
Edit to add everything below this line
Downvotes for facts. I pay 120/mo. It's either this, 3Mbps DSL, or T-Mobile home 5G that works when it feels like it.
So, not 4x, but 2x.
BTW, did you know HughesNet is cheaper, and works just as well. Or, it will work just as well once Starlink reaches the saturation HughesNet faces.
Physics says otherwise.
Geostationary orbit, which is where hughesnet satellites are, is approximately 22 THOUSAND miles away.
That's a round trip of 44 thousand miles.
That's a ping time of 236ms just for the satellite connection, before any other connections are added in.
That's worse than my dialup latency was in the 90s
Meanwhile, my Starlink ping averages less than 40ms, because these satellites are MUCH MUCH closer.
That's good for Starlink and all other ISPs, intuitively, the less internet people have, the more they will pay for more, simple supply and demand !
The best financial move for SpaceX and Starlink would be to have a few "unfortunate accidents" where tesla crash into telephone poles which happen to also hold critical fiber junctions.
Now that is profit driven innovation !
And, wait until Starlink hits saturation... Your speeds will be 1mb down, 300kb up, and latency hitting 100ms...
You're only benefiting from early adoption at this time. It can only get worse the more they onboard.
Starlink is 120/mo.
How much for install?
In principle I agree with you, but as a network guy, somewhere, between you and the server you are connected to, the bandwidth is shared. The only question is just where and how much bandwidth (well network throughput) there is to share. I work for a large university and our main datacenter has 10GbE and 25/100GbE connections between all the local machines. But we only have about a 3-5gb connection out to the rest of the world.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’d 100% rather have a symmetrical fiber connection to the ISP than something shared like radio or DOCSIS. I used to live in a neighborhood where everyone had Spectrum and about 5-6 PM the speed would plummet because cable internet is essentially just fancy thinnet all over again. Yes I’m old since I used to set up thinnet 😀
PS: I would kill for $70 fiber where I am now. Used to have it but we moved to the sticks and I miss it terribly.
somewhere, between you and the server you are connected to, the bandwidth is shared.
But the difference here is that on a fibre connection the shared portion goes over higher speed trunks which gives you most of that 1Gbps bandwidth. A wireless connection has a limited number of slices in the same band that it can share.
It's the same issue with too many people on a single WiFi connection.
Yep very true.
To me the main benefit of the direct fiber connection is the symmetry. With cable here I’m “supposed” to get “up to” 1000mbs down but my upload speed is at best 40. Moving large files back and forth to work is very painful.
With cable here I’m “supposed” to get “up to” 1000mbs down but my upload speed is at best 40.
Man, you get 40 up? I'm stuck on 30 up. And the funny thing is that just on the other side of the creek on the other side of my street is where they stopped the fibre rollout.
Because of physics.
Pfff, physics, pesky detail! Clearly you are not a true visionary like Musk! /s
I say this as someone who actively pays for starlink out of necessity.
Fuck you, no. Fiber is much better for everyone. Eat shit muskrat.
I feel that man. Right now I load balance between tmobile and starlink cause the towers near me suck. I work from home so having consistent internet is really important and in my area, the fiber build out is really slow and expensive. Luckily I'm moving here soon but its been a pain in the ass to say the least.
Starlink is great for what it is. Very important tech but yea, I'm sure most everyone would be happier with fiber.
oh my god... I can't believe I'm still getting surprised by how terrible things are in the US. it is the richest, poorest country.
EDIT: holy shit i just saw a 2019 OECD report that says the us had less than 20% of its fixed internet users connected by fiber which is way below the average for the 37 countries studied in the report, which was 27%.
funny thing is i remember reading about this very report in a news article, which was about how my country was way below the average; noting countries like japan, south korea and a bunch of european countries had above 50%. but i think the number for my country was something like 22%. we're not even in the EU and we had higher coverage than the US? that's crazy.
On one hand, Musk.
On the other hand... Telecos.
You can either give billions more to the world's richest asshole, or you can give billions to companies that already received that money last time and did absolutely fuckall with it.
Lose-lose
Thats illegal most placss.
So twice as cool as well as functionally superior.
I mean there is a third option: municipal fiber
But then the gub’ment is your ISP but at least it’s not making billionaires money.
I’d suggest the best case scenario to me would be a fourth option like a community run co-op of fiber to the premises and have it be grant funded. But who am I kidding, that’s almost to socialist for rural America like where I live.
i like the alternative saying
Some make the world better by their passing, others make the world better by their passing.
it's vague and passive enough that you have plausible deniability, but the meaning is clear. plus I like the poetry of it.
That’s just ridiculous. The suffering he has inflicted on the rest of the world will be felt for a very long time. Crushing his head would get him out of those consequences.
Why not something more drawn out?
I say we fit him with an explosive collar and any time his asset valuation exceeds, let’s say 350% of the federal poverty guideline, its starts screaming an alarm. He would then have 2 hours to reduce his asset valuation or it explodes.
I would say he should to live as a poor person in the US forever but honestly, the idea of him balancing a bank account like the rest of us is more entertaining.
Sexist bigots don't have valid ideologies.
You're almost indistinguishable from a male incel.
Seek therapy.
Traitor: male supremacy is good
Decent: no it is not
Traitor: you’re a sexist bigot
Low orbit satellites will never replace fiber because physics of latency, bandwidth and error correction.
As far as things go today well never need less fiber. Even if we cover the sky with satellites eventually we'd need to upgrade to fiber because its literally impossible to beat. Except for scifi tech like quantum entanglement networks which might not even be possible or practical and wouldn't need the satelites anyway.
As an infrastructure bet it makes absolutely zero sense except for covering rare niches like war zones or oceans.
Fiber is like rail transport for the internet: expensive, high throughput infrastructure along a defined path. But when it's already there, it's very hard to beat.
Oh right, Musk stopped the discussion of proposed rail expansion with his Boring tunnels and Hyperloop, now he is doing the same thing to the internet.
It shouldn’t be all or nothing. It should be diversified.
Yeah, there are rural locations where Starlink makes sense but also there are a lot of urban places that it would never work in.
They’re welcome to say that, as long as their ruler doesn’t enter the political or policy arena and have the moral depravity to act despite a conflict of interest. As long as corporations don’t have undue influence on politics from lobbying or donations.
We don’t have to listen.
Our representatives should be representing us. ….. alright alright you can stop laughing now
The term "tech neutral' brings back terrible memories of the conservative Liberal successful campaign in #auspol against the #NBN (national broadband network) 😞
paulbudde.com/blog/nbn-ftth-br…
The Coalition’s NBN failure: political sabotage and the threat of privatisation continues. - Paul Budde Consultancy
For over 15 years, I have watched the National Broadband Network (NBN) become one of the most politicised infrastructure projects in Australia’s history.Paul (Paul Budde Consultancy)
Wireless data transmission should only ever be used for nomadic, temporary, and/or sacrificial links.
They’re useful for quick deployment, but are intrinsically brittle and terrible for resiliency and efficiency.
The longer the dependence on them for a given use case, the less defensible arguments in support of them become.
I’m all for the use of satellite delivery of internet services, but only when it’s used in conjunction with a broader roll out of hardwired infrastructure, at which point it can reasonably be relegated to serving as a secondary, backup diverse path.
"Oligarch mouthpiece demands diverting of major public funds to oligarchs instead"
Story of America, really.
Remember how Elon Musk conned Vegas out of millions with the hyperloop.
Satellite internet is not the future; it's cell internet.
We already have physical lines.
Businesses and governments aren't going to invest in digging and laying down more cables to give people in rural America access to fiber. They're already reluctant to do it for major cities.
Fibre deployment is getting cheaper and easier. Both in terms of cost of materials and in the equipment and labour skills.
It's also much more secure from interference and disruption.
For populated areas, there's zero justification to rollout wireless over fibre lines. And most major cities already have fibre in most, or many, areas. And the thing with fibre is that the physical lines can be used to deploy faster speeds with upgraded endpoints.
Tech bros would have you think physical connections aren't a good choice anymore, because laying down fibre isn't sexy enough for that VC money.
American taxpayers paid for both Starlink and Space X. Overpaid, actually, that's why he's the richest man in the world. None of his businesses are profitable, he just skims hundreds of billions off the enormous government grants he gets.
Since we overpaid for that tech, we should just confiscate it from him. He can be thankful that he doesn't go to prison for misappropriating government funds.
He can keep Tesla. It'll be bankrupt in 2 years anyway.
How about no
How about we take down every starlink satellite so NASA can operate unabated, and our telescopes aren't interfered with.
Snot Flickerman
in reply to return2ozma • • •like this
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mesa
in reply to Snot Flickerman • • •My union got me a raise. And I have a pension of all things. Crazy. In 2025!
Unions are great.
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Avid Amoeba
in reply to mesa • • •mesa
in reply to Avid Amoeba • • •ClanOfTheOcho
in reply to mesa • • •mesa
in reply to ClanOfTheOcho • • •Avid Amoeba
in reply to mesa • • •Olap
in reply to Avid Amoeba • • •Em Adespoton
in reply to return2ozma • • •$165,000 tech jobs are still out there. Usually they require at least 10 years experience, or a masters in mathematics or data science.
Fresh out of school? Try a $48-64k job and get some experience.
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UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •Try renting an apartment in Silicon Valley with a $48k/year paycheck in your pocket.
The starting salaries justified the crazy cost-of-living in a city that wanted $5000/mo for 800 sqft. Now the question becomes how you afford to get the experience in a job that pays below the regional pricetag.
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mesa
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •like this
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UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to mesa • • •I mean, its hardly unique to SV or to the Tech Sector broadly speaking. One of the biggest challenges I've seen down in Texas is teachers earning enough money to live in their (comparatively much cheaper than California) school districts.
But I gotta say, I was earning $48k back in 2006 way out in the Houston 'burbs and it was a tight squeeze. Nothing has improved. "Just earn less" doesn't work when you're bumping up against a bunch of landlords and lenders saying "Fuck you, pay me more".
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mesa
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •I dont disagree. Yuck. Same salaries, different decade.
I actually made quite a bit more about 4 years ago, but took a downgrade in pay for less work. Worked out well for me. But I see a lot of people floundering right now. I know one person that's been out of a tech job for over a year and had to go back to manual labor after doing a ton of work in tech. At least he got paid unlike the poor saps that get unpaid internships.
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Boomer Humor Doomergod
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •Counter offer: Rent an apartment in Bumfuck, Flyover and work for a tech company.
It’s the only way I’ve been able to afford a house.
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BombOmOm
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •It's amazing how cheap living is when you aren't trying to jam yourself into a city. People talk about how there is a bunch of vacant housing, well, middle of nowhere is where it is! And it's damn cheap.
And now, with 5G and satellite internet both as solid internet sources, it is rare you will find a house that will prevent a work remote job.
Boomer Humor Doomergod
in reply to BombOmOm • • •SpaceNoodle
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •Boomer Humor Doomergod
in reply to SpaceNoodle • • •SpaceNoodle
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •xthexder
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •Frezik
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Frezik • • •fodor
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to fodor • • •It's a modest bedroom, small living room, and a kitchen.
You can fit in a smaller space. I wouldn't say you can live in it. 300ft is barely a hotel room.
Boomer Humor Doomergod
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •like this
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Em Adespoton
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •like this
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empireOfLove2
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •Boomer out of touch take.
Damn. That'd be crazy if anyone was actually hiring anybody with no experience.
I know multiple group chats of people who graduated fresh from college, not even 20% of them have jobs a year after grad. And this is spread across comp sci, cybersecurity, and mech eng.
The entry level job is dead. Every company thinks they can replace the menial shit that entry level workers do to learn with AI slop.
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prettybunnys
in reply to empireOfLove2 • • •counterpoint: I work in tech for a Fortune 500 and we still have interns and still hire intern classes and kids right out of college.
We just had an intern project showcase, some neat stuff.
We are working with AI but we aren’t stupid, we still need people.
Not in Silicon Valley.
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Em Adespoton
in reply to prettybunnys • • •Exact same thing here.
If you ignore any company related to “cloud” or “AI”, especially if you focus on tech jobs at companies outside the software industry, there’s still plenty of hiring fresh coders going on.
prettybunnys
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •We have a pretty forward thinking AI offering of our own, but … it’s not being vibe coded, we have very educated AI engineers
I feel like honestly it’s outside of tech where they believe they can replace with AI
Prove_your_argument
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •lol... I don't think you're right at all.
Everybody overhired coders in 2020-2021, and everybody has been shedding them since.... along with tons of other roles.
Sure, they are always hiring and there's always exceptions. If the job is 60k and you have 3000 applicants and 300 of them have over 3 years of experience... how can a 0 YOE possibly compete?
atticus88th
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •It's weird that so many replies are attacking you when you are factually right. The industry has always been this way. And some kid with a GED and 3 years of CompSci from their community college is not going to land them a 165k dream job right after graduation.
I think some people have been living in a fantasy world or believed every headline they saw.
BrianTheeBiscuiteer
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •Probably not the hottest of markets right now (not just because of Trump and company) and I was in a similar boat when I graduated. My first job was Best Buy (not Geek Squad unfortunately) then tech support then a reporting analyst. Took probably 4 years for me to get into a job where coding was the main aspect.
That being said, I feel bad for any new graduate except for maybe lawyers.
GissaMittJobb
in reply to Em Adespoton • • •On top of this, the AI jobs are paying some flat-out ridiculous rates.
Like, millions of dollars up-front in signing bonuses kind of ridiculous
Plebcouncilman
in reply to return2ozma • • •This is a good thing.
Fuck these kids getting overpaid remote jobs destroying the housing market of poor countries like mine.
TorJansen
in reply to Plebcouncilman • • •yeehaw
in reply to Plebcouncilman • • •Plebcouncilman
in reply to yeehaw • • •like this
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tatterdemalion
in reply to yeehaw • • •Plebcouncilman
in reply to tatterdemalion • • •Eager Eagle
in reply to Plebcouncilman • • •Individuals buying/renting for themselves don't destroy any housing market.
Scalping companies buying hundreds of houses and apartments in a city to leave them vacant and artificially pump prices do.
Plebcouncilman
in reply to Eager Eagle • • •Serinus
in reply to Plebcouncilman • • •Plebcouncilman
in reply to Serinus • • •some_guy
in reply to return2ozma • • •like this
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TorJansen
in reply to return2ozma • • •HertzDentalBar
in reply to return2ozma • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to HertzDentalBar • • •As a developer who has hired dozens of developers, you definitely don't. It makes no difference, especially in this day and age of AI being able to make websites and programs with ease.
AlecSadler
in reply to HertzDentalBar • • •masterofn001
in reply to return2ozma • • •gravitas_deficiency
in reply to return2ozma • • •Hey so just to be clear: a 200k comp package nowadays is the equivalent of about 81k in 1990.
Put another way: I am doing a good bit worse than my dad was at my age, despite being a pretty solid and experienced software engineer, with an EECS degree, and a lot of devops and system design experience.
This is the collapse of the American social contract. Even people like me who are ostensibly in “great” jobs are treated like code monkeys, and adjusted for inflation, it’s flat or worse than 30-35 years ago. We are doing worse than the generation before us. The American Dream is a nightmare.
sobchak
in reply to gravitas_deficiency • • •MBech
in reply to sobchak • • •Your last point is where I'm putting most of the blame. We're all doing worse because a few people at the top always, ALWAYS have to do better than last year.
Eternal growth is physically impossible. At some point, shit will have to stagnate, and if shit starts to stagnate, but the top still insists on eternal growth, they'll have to take some from the bottom. That's what's happening right now. The top can no longer keep making more money off of an industry in development, so instead they'll cut costs, costs being you, the worker, and hope they die before it all collapses under them.
e461h
in reply to MBech • • •MagicianWithABadPlan
in reply to sobchak • • •MagicianWithABadPlan
in reply to gravitas_deficiency • • •CheeseNoodle
in reply to MagicianWithABadPlan • • •GamingChairModel
in reply to gravitas_deficiency • • •Individual Income by Year: Average, Median, One Percent, and Calculator
PK (DQYDJ)Horsey
in reply to GamingChairModel • • •This data to me didn’t show much in the way of by-field statistics. If we’re comparing software development pay at the naîssance of the field to today, it should be complicated to do so. I’d expect to look at top 5% at the very least because of how new and niche computing and coding in general was in the 90s.
You have to expect that OP, who is well established in his field, to compare accordingly, not with average pay of 1990.
GamingChairModel
in reply to Horsey • • •I'm talking about a number that is 1.4x the 95th percentile generally. It'd be weird to assume that programmers were getting paid that much more than doctors and lawyers and bankers.
According to this survey series, median IEEE members were making about $58k (which was also the average for 35-year-olds in the survey. Electrical engineering is a closely related discipline to programming.
So yeah, an $81k salary was really, really high in 1990. I suspect the original comment was thinking of the 90's in general, and chose a salary from later in the decade while running the inflation numbers back to 1990, using the wrong conversion factor for inflation.
Edited to add: this Bureau of Labor Statistics publication summarizes salaries by several professions and experience levels as of March 1990. The most senior programmers were making around $34k, the most senior systems analysts were making about $69k, and the most senior managers, who could fairly be described as executives, were making about $88k.
Salary and Fringe Benefits Survey Data for IEEE USA Engineers (1971-2000)
ewh.ieee.orgKairuByte
in reply to GamingChairModel • • •That site is talking about averages, assembly across the board. The person you’re talking to is explicitly talking about CS jobs, like software developer or system engineer.
You can’t really compare the two.
GamingChairModel
in reply to KairuByte • • •No, but it is a starting point for passing some kind of sanity check. Someone who was making $81k in 1990 was making an exceedingly high salary in the general population, and computer-related professions weren't exactly known for high salaries until maybe the 2000's.
[This report] (bls.gov/ocs/publications/pdf/w…) has government statistics showing that in March 1990, entry level programmers were making on average about $27k. Senior programmers were making about $34k. Systems analysts (which I understand to have primarily been mainframe programmers in 1990) were making low 30s at the entry level and high 60s at the most senior level. Going up the management track, only the fourth and highest level was making above $80k, and it seems to me that those are going to be high level executives.
So yeah, $81k is a very senior level in the 1990s tech industry, probably significantly less common than today's $200k tech jobs.
panda_abyss
in reply to return2ozma • • •inclementimmigrant
in reply to return2ozma • • •peoplebeproblems
in reply to return2ozma • • •Wait what? Who is making $165k out of college?
I don't even make $165k after working for... I don't know let's say 12 or 15 I can't keep track what counts anymore
nek0d3r
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •AlecSadler
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •My first tech job out of college was $55k.
Average in my area for new grads at best is like $85k.
My highest paying was $195k as a Senior and my average is probably $150k as a Senior / Lead.
None of this was big tech though.
sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to AlecSadler • • •peoplebeproblems
in reply to AlecSadler • • •Yeah I made $51k out of college.
My first software job I made $68k? Granted Im at $150k after all that time, but still. Dang yo you know?
sobchak
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •HubertManne
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •peoplebeproblems
in reply to HubertManne • • •My mother won't answer me what her salary was when she retired. Easily in the industry for 30-40 years, but I know it was under $200k. Granted she was an electrical engineer before getting her masters in computer science, but I also suspect it has to do with the fact that she and I didn't work for the big tech giants.
And I have no interest in doing so.
HubertManne
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •Baguette
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •Big tech in HCOL areas (Seattle, all of Cali, etc.) pay new grads about 100k to 150k base, with a hefty sign on bonus (anywhere from 20k to 50k). RSUs usually only vest about 5 to 10% of their total stock in the first year, but thats about 5k to 10k
Of course HCOL means this money is relatively less than it seems, but still a lot for new grads.
GamingChairModel
in reply to peoplebeproblems • • •Computer science and engineering grads at the top of their class at top schools who choose not to go to grad school. This thread claims to cite Department of Education data to show median salaries 3 years after graduation, and some of them are higher than $165k. Sure, that's 3 years out, but it's also median, so one would expect 75th or 90th percentile number to be higher.
Anecdotally, I know people from Stanford/MIT who did get their first jobs in the Bay Area for more than $150k more than 10 years ago, so it was definitely possible.
But this NYT article has stories about graduates from Purdue, Oregon State, and Georgetown which are good schools but also generally weren't the schools producing many graduates landing in those $150k jobs as that very top tier. I would assume the kids graduating from Cal Tech, MIT, Stanford, and UC Berkeley are still doing well. But the middle is getting left behind.
Prove_your_argument
in reply to return2ozma • • •return2ozma
in reply to Prove_your_argument • • •taiyang
in reply to return2ozma • • •So, life of a humanities major like my wife. Actually, most majors that weren't STEM.
If it helps anyone in this situation, you can try to bank on other skills. My wife is doing great now but got her start because of her bilingualism, and even that was only 35k a year. My sister did a little better with her music degree by pivoting to community manager, although in her case she had experience modding for a well known streamer. That was pretty good money right out the gate.
Point is, programming isn't your everything, even if you're leveraging something from your personal life.
BigTrout75
in reply to return2ozma • • •AlecSadler
in reply to BigTrout75 • • •turdburglar
in reply to BigTrout75 • • •fodor
in reply to return2ozma • • •