Tears of joy and celebratory gunfire: how Gaza and Israel reacted to news of ceasefire deal
Tears of joy and celebratory gunfire: how Gaza and Israel reacted to news of ceasefire deal
An initially improbable peace plan put forward by US president Donald Trump was on Thursday agreed to in its ‘initial phase’ by Israel and HamasKate Lamb (The Guardian)
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The world's oldest president seeks an eighth term in Cameroon as youth grumble
The world's oldest president seeks an eighth term in Cameroon as youth grumble
Cameroon's Paul Biya is the world's oldest president at age 92NALOVA AKUA Associated Press (ABC News)
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I really loved when, a few years ago, he fell ill and flew to France (IIRC) for medical treatment. His family was so sure he wouldn't make it, they filled a commercial airliner with people ready to flee the country.
Then he bounced back! GD Methusala over here. And they all had to go home and pretend like nothing happened.
As the central African country prepares for Sunday's presidential election, he said he would not be heading out to vote.
[... ]
“He is already too old to govern, and it’s boring knowing only him as president," Nghobo told The Associated Press
Dumb people everywhere
Collapse of China spy case shows ‘UK can be bullied’, says trial witness
cross-posted from: lemmy.sdf.org/post/43755829
cross-posted from: lemmy.sdf.org/post/43755776
ArchivedThe British government’s refusal to testify that China is a national security threat in a major espionage trial has signalled to Beijing that “the UK can be bullied”, according to a former senior diplomat who was due to be a prosecution witness in the now-collapsed case.
The warning comes after Stephen Parkinson, the director of public prosecutions (DPP), revealed that his team had repeatedly tried and failed to obtain witness statements from the government that said China was a threat to UK national security.
Prosecutors had to abandon the trial of two British men charged with spying on parliamentarians for China, just weeks before it was due to start, because of the government’s refusal to provide the evidence, Parkinson said in a letter to MPs on Tuesday.
Charles Parton, a former UK diplomat who spent more than two decades working on China, Hong Kong and Taiwan, had been due to appear as a prosecution witness in the trial.
“In broad fashion, this [collapse] says to the Chinese, ‘yes, we can bully the British, they will crumble if we play hard ball in whatever the negotiation is’ — that’s the worrying thing to me”, he told the Financial Times.
The failed prosecution was, he added, “a missed opportunity to demonstrate clearly China’s espionage efforts, and to say to anyone thinking of betraying our national interest, that you will be caught and punished”.
Parton, now an associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, said: “There is absolutely no doubt China is a threat, and it’s a common sense point. A threat equals hostility, intent and capability. Well, each of those is very easy to prove.”
[...]
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UK: Welp, our child has turned into a fascist cunt, so now we seek a new overlord to bend over for.
China: You rang?
France: Our child became a cunt because you used gentle parenting, UK.
Qilin cybercrime gang claims hack on Japan’s Asahi Group
Qilin cybercrime gang claims hack on Japan’s Asahi Group
The ransomware group says it stole more than 9,300 files, or roughly 27GB of data. Read more at straitstimes.com.ST
A deep dive into the rss feed reader landscape
Lighthouse - The feed reader for finding actionable content
A reimagined RSS feed reader, optimized for people who are serious, intentional, and proactive about their content consumption.lighthouseapp.io
Their main purpose is enabling their users to consume content from various sources in one place.
Uh, no? RSS/Atom only contains a summary. It's to inform you about news, a alternative to E-Mail newsletters. Website scraping is extra functionality some clients do.
RSS is a nice idea. Unfortunately too many websites want you to use email "newsletters" instead.
Even Ghost has no mechanism to add an RSS link. You have to inspect the page code or use a dedicated extension.
How to convert any newsletter into a personal RSS feed?
In a world dominated by algorithmic content, RSS feeds offer a way to reclaim control over your digital consumption.Piotrek Bodera (Nerd on Tour)
Am I the only person to find it easier just to go to the site than reading hacked-up versions in some archaic email-wannabe dedicated client?
I have never understood the appeal of RSS.
Sounds like you tried one bad feed. All the sites on my feed render perfectly fine.
AP, NPR, Political Wire, Al Jazeera, Ars Technical to name just a few.
The sites can be full of cookie popups, slower rendering, ads, etc.
I have tried all sorts of RSS feeds. All the same painful to navigate through a painful, outdated email-like interface that makes it vastly inferior to, you know, scrolling through a website.
FFS, RSS people must have grown up on being desk jockeys stuck in Outlook all day and they don't know how to navigate anything else.
I don't know if it's Lemmy not standing different opinions than:
A) some opinions don't add much value to any conversation except to say "I disagree" and that's both not super helpful and in a small community I'd argue it's healthy for positive engagement to be more prevalent than negative engagement.
B) some comments disagree or tear down a solution without offering up a good alternative - which leaves the people with solutions feeling worse for their solution, the problem unaddressed in a different way, and if someone likes their solution or even knows it's superior to alternatives it becomes very easy to down vote a subjectively wrong opinion.
In this instance "going to the website" is not a helpful alternative for a tool who's purpose is to aggregate many desired websites into one location only when they have new content. "Going to the website" would be less efficient both in time and effort. This person saying they don't get them, while being on Lemmy - a site aggregator - is to me very funny.
My instinct was to down vote because it was already down voted and for the reasons above, but your comment gave me pause so now I won't down vote but I also won't upvote because it's not content I think anyone should waste their time reading.
Should there be a neutral response on site aggregators for this very circumstance? Never thought about that before.
I think that's a very common and logical instinct/bias. I'm fairly confident you and everyone else does this as well. If someone told you two compare two drinks and that one was expensive, the expensive one gets a statistical boon. If someone says this book sucks and the author is an asshole, you're primed to take previously neutral statements and skew them towards a negative understanding.
I always read before voting but ya, we have bias my guy and talking about them is good.
I’ve liked using FreshRSS in the past, but has the developer finally capitulated and allowed users to sort entries by publication date?
It was probably the most requested feature and they always insisted it didn’t make sense or wasn’t possible despite being a common feature among other RSS feed readers.
my problem with these was that id have one website filling up the feed with a lot of posts and another interesting website that only makes a post every once in awhile and i almost never see it
is there a solution to this?
I’ve been using FeedBin after Google Reader sunset… so, a long time now. Every year I say I’ll bring it in-house, then I get billed for another year and say fuck it. It works fine. And now they have a minimalist podcast app called Airshow that lets me use my FeedBin account to synch my podcasts across devices. So, whatever… take my money. 25$ a year isn’t going to break me.
Edit: want to add that I use Netnewswire (free) to read my feeds. Integrates Feedbin and isn’t overkill on ridiculous feature that turn it into a p.o.s. subscription app.
VIDEO: Hundreds of Palestinian Captives Released in Khan Younis From Israeli Detention
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/37507267
Abdel Qader Sabbah
and Sharif Abdel Kouddous
Oct 13, 2025
In Khan Younis, thousands of people gathered to greet the freed detainees, who arrived in dozens of buses operated by the Red Cross and in Red Crescent ambulances. The crowds gathered in the courtyard of Nasser Hospital and on rooftops and balconies overlooking the medical complex where the freed captives were taken for medical checks. Nasser hospital, which has been repeatedly bombed by the Israeli military, is one of only 13 out of 38 hospitals still partially functioning in Gaza.Freed detainees wearing gray jumpsuits leaned out of bus windows and waved to the crowds. Family members and friends embraced them through the windows as they drove by.
VIDEO: Hundreds of Palestinian Captives Released in Khan Younis From Israeli Detention
Abdel Qader Sabbah
and Sharif Abdel Kouddous
Oct 13, 2025In Khan Younis, thousands of people gathered to greet the freed detainees, who arrived in dozens of buses operated by the Red Cross and in Red Crescent ambulances. The crowds gathered in the courtyard of Nasser Hospital and on rooftops and balconies overlooking the medical complex where the freed captives were taken for medical checks. Nasser hospital, which has been repeatedly bombed by the Israeli military, is one of only 13 out of 38 hospitals still partially functioning in Gaza.Freed detainees wearing gray jumpsuits leaned out of bus windows and waved to the crowds. Family members and friends embraced them through the windows as they drove by.
VIDEO: Hundreds of Palestinian Captives Released in Khan Younis From Israeli Detention
“My message to the people of Gaza: Do not lose hope, do not despair,” a freed Palestinian prisoner said.Abdel Qader Sabbah (Drop Site News)
VIDEO: Hundreds of Palestinian Captives Released in Khan Younis From Israeli Detention
Abdel Qader Sabbah
and Sharif Abdel Kouddous
Oct 13, 2025
In Khan Younis, thousands of people gathered to greet the freed detainees, who arrived in dozens of buses operated by the Red Cross and in Red Crescent ambulances. The crowds gathered in the courtyard of Nasser Hospital and on rooftops and balconies overlooking the medical complex where the freed captives were taken for medical checks. Nasser hospital, which has been repeatedly bombed by the Israeli military, is one of only 13 out of 38 hospitals still partially functioning in Gaza.Freed detainees wearing gray jumpsuits leaned out of bus windows and waved to the crowds. Family members and friends embraced them through the windows as they drove by.
VIDEO: Hundreds of Palestinian Captives Released in Khan Younis From Israeli Detention
“My message to the people of Gaza: Do not lose hope, do not despair,” a freed Palestinian prisoner said.Abdel Qader Sabbah (Drop Site News)
CNN to host town hall with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Bernie Sanders | CNN Politics
CNN will host a live town hall with progressive lawmakers Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Wednesday, October 15, the network announced Friday.
The town hall will air at 9 p.m. ET and will be moderated by CNN’s Kaitlan Collins from Washington, DC.
The event comes as the government shutdown is set to enter a third week, leaving roughly 1.4 million federal employees furloughed or working without pay. The funding lapse has already affected travel, and its impact could soon be seen on food assistance programs and the economy overall.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/10/politics/cnn-aoc-bernie-sanders-town-hall
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Mark Elliott, Professor of Public Law at the University of Cambridge, provides a good analysis on Starmer's comments.
The Prime Minister insists that the dropping of China-related espionage charges occurred for reasons entirely outwith the control of his government — but his argument that his hands were tied by the previous government’s position on China is, at best, highly contestable ...The reality is that it is open to the government today to say that it considers that China was a threat to national security in 2021–23 and to offer that view as evidence for the purpose of criminal proceedings ...
The entire comment makes a good read: publiclawforeveryone.com/2025/…
On China, the Official Secrets Act and ‘enemies’: Is the Prime Minister wrong?
The Prime Minister has claimed that his government’s hands are tied in relation to whether China constituted an ‘enemy’ for the purpose of a now-dropped criminal prosecution under…Public Law for Everyone
Pro-Palestinian protest threat racks up tension for Italy's World Cup qualifier with Israel
During Friday's massive strike action in support of the Palestinians, demonstrators went to the Italian national team's training centre in Florence to demand the match against Israel be called off.As of Tuesday only around 4,000 tickets had been sold for the game in Udine, a small city in Italy's far north-east, which was picked specifically to help limit the potential for disorder.
Pro-Palestinian protest threat racks up tension for Italy's World Cup qualifier with Israel
Italy are struggling to qualify automatically for next year's World Cup finals and the pressure on the team is exacerbated by the tension surrounding next Tuesday's qualifier with Israel in Udine.France 24 (FRANCE 24)
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How Israel denies the right to play for Palestinian children (25min Video)
How Israel denies the right to play for Palestinian children
We look at Palestinian children's right to play in war-ravaged Gaza and in the occupied West Bank.Al Jazeera
Israel and Hamas agree to 'first phase' of plan to end fighting and release hostages, Trump says
WASHINGTON (AP) — Israel and Hamas have agreed to the “first phase” of his peace plan to pause fighting and release at least some hostages and prisoners, U.S. President Donald Trump said Wednesday in announcing the outlines of the biggest breakthrough in months in the two-year-old war.
“This means that ALL of the Hostages will be released very soon, and Israel will withdraw their Troops to an agreed upon line as the first steps toward a Strong, Durable, and Everlasting Peace,” Trump wrote on social media. “All Parties will be treated fairly!”
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on social media, “With God’s help we will bring them all home.” Hamas said separately that the deal would ensure the withdrawal of Israeli troops as well as allow for the entry of aid and exchange of hostages and prisoners.
Hamas plans to release all 20 living hostages this weekend, people familiar with the matter told The Associated Press, while the Israeli military will begin a withdrawal from the majority of Gaza.
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He seems pretty pissed off at Putin right now, and is now talking about Ukraine retaking all its territories.
I don't think it would go well for Israel if this deal fell through.
A nation like North Korea, for example, has good relations with one neighbour, and their relations with the other entirely depend on how much they've pissed them off lately.
Israel isn't so fortunate. Without support from countries like the US, they'd likely cease to exist, given how they've systematically pissed off every neighbour they have.
It's not an exact analogy, though, because they're actually stronger than their neighbors, who don't really have superpower allies of their own. If Israel were to take that path, they'd start by expanding (more), and rely on the weakening of the world order to get away with it. The economics would be straight out of the historical empires.
I think that's plausible just because of how deep into the hate Israeli society has gotten, and how they've already set up economic and legal mechanisms like that on a small scale, through their settlement movement.
The other option is basically that, however it shakes out through domestic politics, they give up and do whatever the US makes them. Which would be less frightening, but leaves another chapter to be written whenever the US fully loses interest in having anything to do with them, since the shift away from Zionism crosses party lines there.
and is now talking about Ukraine retaking all its territories
Talk's cheap, and no talk is cheaper than Trump's. See if there's any action before drawing any conclusion.
Yeah! The us will probably sanction their ass back to BC.
Just like the last time.
yeah
Aipac is funded by American Zionists and Israel is funded by the USA. The USA is the one who control Israel and will always be
Who the fk does he think he is (Netanyahu)? Who's the fking superpower here? - Bill Clinton
Everything Trump and the other presidents done was always to serve the USA imperialism
If a sentence or headline ends with "Trump Says" you can disregard it
Edit: at best you can infer the opposite. But mostly they are information-free.
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Germany investigating Temu on price-fixing suspicions
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Price fixing? How?
Dumping, possibly.
Abusing the International Postage Union, definitely.
but Price Fixing!?
Starving children screaming for food as US aid cuts unleash devastation and death across Myanmar
Some people have the audacity to say that Trump's policies don't lead to misery and death.
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio sat before Congress and declared: “No one has died” because of his government’s decision to gut its foreign aid program. Rubio also insisted: “No children are dying on my watch.”
But the data says and projects otherwise.
A study published in The Lancet journal in June said the U.S. funding cuts could result in more than 14 million deaths, including more than 4.5 million children under age 5, by 2030.
The United States could have been a beacon of hope and a model to look up to. For many years, that was the case for people and immigrants all around the world.
In a matter of months, that has all crumbled to its foundation. It's so hard to watch.
https://apnews.com/article/myanmar-usaid-thailand-trump-rubio-aid-7f6919a1863ceea2ddf6708e47bb88f0
My use of 'all' was a generalization, not literal. Historically, many people around the world did view the U.S. as a model and a place to aspire to, even as others rightly criticized its actions. My point is that the MAGA slogan claims to be trying restore (something like) that old image, yet their actions only deepen global resentment.
It would be great to see the US genuinely become a beacon of hope again (and atone for their sins), but I'm not holding my breath. Honestly, I've been cheering on other nations to fill that role. I'm not a US nationalist or patriot.
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I'm afraid that you aren't seeing just how bad it really is:
There are specific dimensions to human-evil:
- narcissism
- machiavellianism
- sociopathy-psychopathy
- nihilism
- sadism
- systemic-dishonesty
- eradication-of-objectivity
- eradication-of-considered-reasoning
( and possibly others I haven't found, yet )
The problem is that MAGA is pushing-the-envelope on ALL these dimensions, simultaneously, & less than 1/4 way through Trump's 2nd term, he's got about 1/2 of "Project 2025" implimented.
People don't underrstand: there's a tipping-point" when it becomes totalitarian-dictatorship, & that point is *fast approaching.
The manufacturing of homelessness, combined with the criminalization of homelessness,
The law he got enacted that exempts him & his appointees from court-injunctions & related court actions,
The law he used to de-register Democrat voters, just before the Trump/Harris election,
The law that allows him to simply remove citizenship from everybody he doesn't like, "denaturalization",
There is NO limit to the evil that they will bee allowed to "legally" enforce, shortly.
As I tried explaining to the USMC, some time before Sept 11, 2001, "the USMC obeys any LEGAL order" does NOTHING to protect the USMC's heart/spirit once the law has been rewritten so that murdering babies is now a legal order.
The reason he's throwing-around the National Guard sooo much, now, is simply because it's part of how he's going to be enforcing his removal-of-rights-from-the-"woke", from the non-Republican, from the non-White, obviously too, in his enforcement of his confederate-kingdom..
The only saving-grace is that he'll be waging war on 3 fronts: war against Canada, because it's intolerable to him that he doesn't possess the entire-continent ( that's why he wants Greenland: to seal-off Canada from Europe, to quicken our butchery )
war against the US itself, Civil War Part2,
AND war against the countries to the US's south, basically all of Central America & much of South America,
WHILE picking fights with China whenever he can, offshore ( the navy )..
This is going to be the worst 6-7y that the Americas EVER had, once that tipping-point is crossed.
( & anybody who thinks that Russia isn't going to launch all-out war against Europe once NATO's butchered, is foolish: China'll be backing them, North Korea'll be backing them, & Canada'll be looking like Ukraine does, right now, if not like the way Mariupol did..
& China'll be rampaging Asia, with impunity..
etc.
IOW, regional-conquering will be the only thing the world is orienting-to for literally years, until Putin & Trump implode )
Tipping-points are violations of status-quo, & we're all unconsciously-wired to ignore violations-of-status-quo, unfortunately..
IF you're not with Trump, & you're in the Americas, please consider arming yourself significantly better than you are now..
( I've spent my life trying to find the Himilayan-Buddhist-monastery HOME that my soul remembers, from a previous-incarnation/life..
it is depressing-as-hell to have to say what I just told you, but it is dishonest to even think-of not telling you that.
I expect that there will be a couple hundred million dead in North America by the early 2030's, in Trump's rampaging of our world.
I expect that there will be a similar percentage dead in Europe then, too.
Even if I'm wrong by over-estimating-by-factor-of-2, that'd still be .. unimaginable for us, now, right?
US's Civil War Part2 .. civil wars are BAD: the most intense hatred-enforcement of any kind of war.
I hope that Canada's Carney finds somebody who can think in the proper frame-of-knowing that CAN stand, systematically, against Trump, because as European journalism has identified, he's spineless against Trump in the longer-term, & that isn't strategy: we're deadmeat, if that remains ruling Canada.
Financially, he's got no equal, that I know-of, anywhere near Canadian politics, but .. as a war leader??
As the war-leader in Canada's Armageddon? )
_ /\ _
reading that article is heart wrenching
there is such desperation - something has to be done
EDIT: trying to find a group that is helping with the famine, but in the meantime this might be a place where donations could be sent and well used:
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Israeli Soldiers Torched Food, Homes, and a Critical Sewage Treatment Plant in the Wake of Ceasefire Announcement
Israeli Soldiers Torched Food, Homes, and a Critical Sewage Treatment Plant in the Wake of Ceasefire Announcement
Soldiers called the mass arson of Gaza City their “final touches.”Younis Tirawi (Drop Site News)
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- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
The Surreal and Sublime Photography of Graciela Iturbide
cross-posted from: lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/55463313
One of the best-known photographers in Mexico. Her work looks away from the sensational images of violence that have for years defined the nation, and instead looks inwards, to the traditions, faces, and unusual sights seen everyday.
Iturbide came to photography later in life. She was the eldest daughter of a wealthy, conservative couple. In 1962, she married the photographer Pedro Meyer and had three children. It was after the death of her daughter in 1970, aged just 6, that Iturbide turned to photography.
The 5th image is perhaps her best-known photograph. Nuestra Señora de Las Iguanas (Our Lady of the Iguanas), it was originally published as part of her photo essay Juchitán de las Mujeres (1979-86), a project which began with Iturbide's support of feminist causes.
Iturbide was also involved in documenting the indigenous cultures of Mexico. This image, Mujer Ángel, in which a woman carries a tape recorder on her journey to ancient cave paintings. was shot in 1979 in the Sonora desert, when Iturbide was living with the Seri Indians.
In many of her photographs there is a sense of playfulness and strangeness. These qualities are at odds with many people's expectations or experiences of Mexico. Iturbide has always strived to look beyond the lurid headlines, to the absurdity of life.
Folk stories and religious themes are common throughout her work. Particularly when the visual language of the catholic church meets ancient native traditions and the realities of contemporary life.
Iturbide started photographing landscapes and birds. She had heard the Seri Indians talk of the significance of birds, and she began to incorporate living and dead birds into her art; symbolic of strength and fragility, freedom and vulnerability.
In the mid-1980s she photographed Mexican-Americans in Eastside Los Angeles, many of whom were involved in street gangs. The cholos and cholas of the White Fence Gang would later feature in the anthology A Day in the Life of America (1987).
EU lawmakers push to ban term 'veggie-burger'
cross-posted from: lemmy.zip/post/50562993
EU lawmakers voted on Wednesday to ban the use of the term "veggie-burger" and limit food descriptions such as steak, escalope and sausage to products containing meat, part of a proposed EU law to protect farmers.
https://www.reuters.com/business/eu-lawmakers-push-ban-term-veggie-burger-2025-10-08/
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Yes, this will definitely protect farmers. I mean, it won't, but at least they will FEEL like it protects them.
People eat veggie burgers for a reason, and it isn't because they think it is actually meat. You can call it whatever you want.
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a hamburger refers being in the style of, or a resident of hamburg Germany.
A burger should only be allowed to refer to the residents, or styles of, any legally defined Burg- ie a german walled town or fortress.
Hamburg should claim a DOC for ground beef, like champagne's for sparkling wine.
Although that might be disingenuous, as a practice of making the minced beef steak into a sandwich wasnt developed until the dish made its way to america.
The world is collapsing under the weight of totalitarianism, climate change, pollution, escalating conflicts, terrorism, tariff battles, supply chain issues, job losses, diseases, and various other huge challenges. And this is the bullshit they are focusing on?!
Great job EU lawmakers! /s
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This is day-to-day shit politicians have to vote on. Went to my state capitol to protest as a senior. Blew me away how fast they were cranking through the votes.
"On proposal $X, \<very short descriptive blurb>, all those in favor?"
We see headlines like this because it's so ridiculous. But it's just the daily grind to legislators.
Who knows what concession(s) they got for bringing this dumb issue to the table? Maybe a concession on one of the issues you noted?
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Not really, it's more of a farmer's lobby protecting animal products from vegetarian alternatives.
Which as someone else says below is a bit neutral and doesn't do much, but hey. They did it to milk.
Guessing it's some bargaining chip with the industry on the wider legislation they're passing? This stuff is pretty byzantine. European agricultural industries are constantly on the verge of setting stuff on fire. It's a full time job to be even vaguely aware of what's going on with them.
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I nean... it's a labelling thing, presumably. They don't want milk substitutes to be labelled "milk" so they can't advertise as easily as a milk substitute on supermarket shelves, and presumably the same is true for meat substitutes, except this goes at a glacial pace and they tried and failed in 2020 when it was still relevant and now they're trying again even though nobody cares about veggie burgers anymore.
You are presuming this sort of arcane manipulation of collective weirdness into multinational legislation follows human logic, and that way lies madness. Best you can do is steer it ever so slightly so it at least does something in the aggregate that stops some anarchocapitalist loon from privatizing oxygen or whatever. It's been a very weird century.
As a form of protest the producers could call their veggie-burgers something like "veggie- big uncooked round grain based edible rotund" which conveniently shortens to veggie-b.u.r.g.e.r. Simply make the dots between the letters tiny and you barely have to change the packaging.
Hope that's legal and someone does that. Those idiots who made this law would blow a gasket.
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I'm perfectly fine with the vegan market growing - the more the better!
I'm just tired of accidentally buying congealed vegetable oil when I'm trying to buy cheese, and compressed bean patty when I'm trying to buy burgers. Making it more clear on the packaging will mean I don't have to spend an extra five minutes triple-checking the fine print all over the package to make sure I'm not being tricked into buying something I don't want. I can just grab the ones that say "burgers" and "cheese" with no worries and go.
Not to mention that this will also make it easier for those who are looking for congealed vegetable oil and compressed bean patty, meaning they'll be less likely to accidentally buy something they're morally or ethically opposed to.
and compressed bean patty when I’m trying to buy burgers
Just buy ground beef and take the 20 seconds to shape it into a patty before cooking it.
accidentally buying congealed vegetable oil when I'm trying to buy cheese, and compressed bean patty when I'm trying to buy burgers
You must actively trying to misread those as they are very clearly make, in their own 'vegetarian alternatives' securing of the shop.
From the way you write I cannot see how your reading comprehension would be so low as to 'accidentally' buy these products.
It was the worst cheesy bread I've ever experienced. And that was after triple checking to make sure it was mozzarella. I can't remember where on the packaging it finally said that it was vegan, but it was anything but prominent.
Ever since, I get downvoted in threads like these, because I know from experience how much making the distinction matters to consumers.
If it says "cheese", it should be cheese, end of story.
What's next? Soon you won't be allowed to call it baby oil unless it's made from real babies.
On a more serious note, I did order a "flexi" burger at Max by mistake. I thought it was a gateway burger with one patty replaced by halloumi. All I got was veg.
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I'm more surprised they were every in any such alliance in the first place.
I mean eat stealing and baby killing just auto cancels anything good they may ever try to do it than maybe self destruction.
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How Israel and its 'digital army' work to silence the truth about Gaza
How Israel and its 'digital army' work to silence the truth about Gaza - Ricochet
In Canada, groups weaponizing claims of media bias are being used to intimidate journalists and reshape coverage of Israel and Palestine under the quiet complicity of Canadian newsroomsZahra Khozema (Ricochet)
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You can feel this in other sites. For example, in Y Combinator’s Hacker News, most posts about the Palestinian genocide get flagged within minutes.
There’s no mad people there commenting that Israel is the people of God, because the discourse there is much more mature than most social aggregators, so the flagging is the only sign some people are watching and “sanitizing” these topics.
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in Y Combinator’s Hacker News, most posts about the Palestinian genocide get flagged within minutes
It's a programming/technology forum. It's very off-topic and I expect that kind of subject to stay away from it. The bane of the modern internet is newbies posting random stuff all over the place without RTFM and without lurking more.
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I don't give a fuck about politics or nazi regimes. Politics are off-topic on tech forums. You're deluded if you think that's my argument.
The internet is filled with noobs who think their opinion on any subject is worth spamming every forum since the 90s and that's annoying. We already had that on newsgroups in the beginning. You're not worth it. Eternal September and stuff...
The ADL nazis knows how to trigger people like you wherever you are. They are the 4chan of the politics and it works. If we banned them everywhere, their job would be useless. By arguing and downvoting me, you proved them right. Keep on talking about them if it suits you.
And right now the top ten has 7 tech links, one article about mediocre scientists advancing science, one about a very old car, and one about the Texas Stock Exchange.
All these are on-topic and actually encouraged in HN.
Listen MacFlaggy, how about you read the site’s guidelines before making such sweeping statements?
What to SubmitOn-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one’s intellectual curiosity.
It’s obvious in HN because of the wide range of obscure topics (eg installing scaffolding on old British smoke stacks) that occasionally arise to the front page, all the ones on that topic are quickly flagged to oblivion.
You don’t have to be a genius to see the pattern 🤷♀️
Paraglider bomb attack by Myanmar military kills at least 20 at protest
Paraglider bomb attack by Myanmar military kills at least 20 at protest
Dozens more injured by night strike on anti-government demonstration held during national holidayCarmela Fonbuena (The Guardian)
German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters
cross-posted from: lemmy.zip/post/50548487
archive.md/QW2r4
German industrial production fell back to 2005 levels in August as output in the country’s all-important car industry cratered by 18.5 per cent compared with the previous monthOverall, industrial production fell 4.3 per cent in August compared with the previous month, seasonally adjusted data showed on Wednesday. Economists had predicted a smaller drop of 1 per cent in a Reuters poll.
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Tariffs in USA and tough competition from China, means EU car manufacturing is caught between a rock and a hard place.
I know both Japan and Korea are also tough competition, but China is extra competition on top of that, and is taking marketshare from everybody else. And USA is a market where access is now somewhat denied through tariffs.
It's hard to see a scenario where EU manufacturers won't lose both global and EU marketshare. Competition now is harder than any time for the past 50 years, even the invasion of the efficient Japanese cars during the oil crisis was not this bad AFAIK.
In both cases there was a problem of increased competition, but this time there is an even worse problem with increased R&D cost and investment in producing BEV cars for the upcoming market, and ICE cars for the markets with slow uptake of BEV.
This is however a good time for consumers, because it seems car prices continue to drop, even after they've been dropping for a year now.
Sure, but they also suffer the consequences of their own focus on pushing out more and more SUV's instead of focusing on EV. Volkswagen actually made the correct choice going fully for EV's, but then backtracked under shareholder pressure. And the EU as a whole failed to protect local battery production and technology, allowing itself (although this also goes for the US, Japan and South-Korea) to become completely dependent on Chinese raw materials refinement and battery production and technology.
China on the other hand, not suffering from fair and free elections, had a much easier time keeping its eye on the ball and sticking with a coherent long term vision.
That being said, I do think it's good for Germany to become less dependent on their car industry. They have a lot of industries screaming for highly qualified employees and the car industry has been vacuuming up a majority of those. These people becoming available for other industries will provide significant benefits as well.
/s
Most of what you write I agree with, but the situation in China is absolutely not fine and dandy. (Although what they have achieved is impressive)
China has huge problems too, the competition is harsh in EU, but it's way worse in China, the competition level among BEV makers is absolutely insane. You can buy a Xiaomi SU7 for less than € 30.000,- a close equivalent to an electric Porsche Taycan, and the cheapest Taycan cost € 155.000,- And the SU7 has more features and is faster.
It would be very strange if some of the Chinese manufacturers don't go under. The government has tried to intervene to dampen the competition to make car makers and suppliers to the industry more profitable. But it seems to have had no effect.
As it is, car makers typically don't pay suppliers for ½ a year! Most suppliers can't do without the money for so long, so car manufacturers issue vouchers to them that can be traded. It's a huge credit house of cards, and more likely than not, one side will fall.
When they are in the EU market, they are absolutely here hoping to make money on a less competitive market.
I honestly feel no pity for them. As a spaniard, their cheapest offering which is usually around 20000€ is simply a rob.
I hope they get their priorities straight and forget about making SUVs
This.
Why would I buy a computer on wheels that I really don't seen to own even though I paid for it?
I'd rather buy a pre-2020 Toyota and drive it to the oblivion.
Discussion: Long-term need for automation tools for moderation
I think QoL tools for moderators need to become more of a Fediverse priority. This burns people out. Key moderators of communities quit and communities become abandoned.
Ideas :
- Automatic removal option to remove posts and/or comments for specific keywords. This would be most useful for automatically removing posts and comments when people slur. Piefed already has a keyword filter for visibility. This could be expanded to community settings. Have it also fire-off a report to the moderators when someone triggers it.
- Automatic URL removal. Allow communities to blacklist specific urls. Useful for politics or news communities that want to negate sources known for misinformation.
- Automatic removal for repeat URL posting. Very useful for politics or news communities to prevent double-posting.
- Make it so a community can set itself up to only accept text posts, video posts, or image posts. This should prevent tedious janitorial cleanup for communities that only allow links, or text posts (the most common two).
- Post Delay Restrictions. Some communities, perhaps not many, might be interested in posting cooldowns for users. So you can only post 1 post every hour, or 2 posts every hour - or whatever the chosen limit is. This would help negate spammers and over-enthusiastic posters flooding a topical community.
- Post Formatting Requirements. This one could be trickier and more effort than most of the others, but setting conditions for the formatting of new posts would be useful.
Now, not all communities would make use or have any need to make use of all of these - but many would to varying degrees - and it would help them.
I think going down this road is important to prevent moderators burning out over the drudgery of moderating communities.
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This burns people out. Key moderators of communities quit and communities become abandoned.
Are you referring to something specific? I haven't seen a trend of a lot of mods quitting, modding is just not that attractive in the first place
If everything is a priority, nothing is a priority.
By now I've written four bots using the lemmy API.
Any one of your ideas is doable in a weekend if I ever feel the need for a modding bot. But I haven't. Several communities and instances already have them.
Honestly that's how it should be. Modding can have such diverse needs depending on community that just implementing every possible eventuality into lemmy itself, is a huge ask.
Any large community on discord, reddit and other platforms, make extensive use of automod bots. Because using the API, you can write bots that do whatever you can think of.
Modding is volunteer work, but it is work.
If you need tools, find them. If they don't exist, create them. If you don't have the skills or time, then don't volunteer.
Asking some volunteers to do more than they already are because you think they are letting down another set of volunteers just risks burning out a different set of volunteers.
To be clear, I'm not thinking about Lemmy here specifically. But in any case, however its done - either via the settings, or an easy to access official or officially endorsed mod-bot - access and knowledge to and of these tools should be easy and well-known for community owners.
If you need tools, find them. If they don’t exist, create them. If you don’t have the skills or time, then don’t volunteer.
Not every would-be moderator of a community has the skills or knowhow to make and/or host these things. Even Reddit now, at its size, lacks some capable tools not consistently covered in automod tools.
I'm not against any of that.
What I disagree with is that this is a priority. It's a nice-to-have.
Once mod actions are supported, and an API exists, any imaginable automation can be implemented by anyone with the impetus to do so.
As such, the priority of further integration drops drastically and platform developer attention can and should move elsewhere.
Mod tools are best created by the people who use them. Even better when they are created for the needs of a specific community. As such, more advanced features should be deferred until later.
Once communities grow large enough that there are a significant number of moderator-developers around, it might be worth creating a generic bot that can be configured as needed. (As has happened with reddit, discord, etc.)
Asking for these tools before then, is inefficient, because the people who ideally should be working on them, haven't shown up yet, and the platform developers time is better spent on other things.
In Skavau's defense, they aren't a programmer, but are probably one of the most active people on piefed's chat server/matrix room as well as the codeberg repo providing ideas and feedback. So they are volunteering time that way (in addition to being site staff for piefed.social).
Some of the ideas in this post are good imo, but are currently not possible yet using the piefed api due to it being much less complete compared to lemmy's. So, it helps us figure out prioritization on what kinds of endpoints would be useful to flesh out next.
Parola filtrata: nsfw
Indeed.
My core point is that when it comes to moderation, I would prioritize actual mod actions (such as a mod being able to mark posts nsfw instead of deleting them outright) and API support for those actions, over built-in automod features.
Once you have an API, anyone with the skills can implement whatever automation they need.
After that, I would priotize a bunch of other things, too, before ever coming back around to built-in automod features.
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There are a lot of people who make excellent mods who are not programmers. It's already a small enough pool that requiring a particular skill only further narrows the pool. It also has a secondary effect that good mods may be unwilling to take on larger communities, or additional responsibilities.
If we want better moderation, the fediverse has to become more friendly to non technical people.
That's not what I'm saying.
Obviously not everyone needs to code. Once I write a bot, it could potentially be used by anyone.
Only a small percentage of mods need to also be developers. But since that group isn't big enough yet, the solution is growth.
Not asking the platform devs to do even more. They too, are volunteers.
Automatic removal for repeat URL posting
That seems like the best of these ideas. But it would be better for the originating instance to warn the poster that their url has already been seen and stop them posting it unless they really really want to.
For the first option, if possible, having it be manually whitelisted per post/comment or user, would also be handy.
Not directly related, but I'd also like to know where and how to donate to the Lemmy devs and instances, to support the fediverse.
May I suggest instead donating to the Piefed project if you wish to donate at all - given its faster development cycle currently.
And since you're from blahaj, your own instance also has a piefed.blahaj variant.
Yes, piefed is independent in the same way as lemmy is.
Piefed has tools that Lemmy does not: Flairs, user flairs, hashtags, custom feeds/topics, scheduled posts, poll posting, events - word filters for users.
You can donate for Lemmy development through the link below. Thank you in advance 😀
The platform should provide some of these out of the box, in my opinion.
I am trying to build a new activitypub powered platform just for user scriptable moderation bots, but I am stuck on the modular federation design.
This is my third attempt now.
Well, my initial idea was to build this only for lemmy and yes it would be easier that way if I didn't care about scalability.
However, the API was not good enough for my use case.
Polling new posts and comments was my main issue with it. So mostly scaling issues.
You could miss some posts and comments. The amount of API requests would get bigger with the amount of communities the bot moderates. There are also some problems with the rate limits.
They can be solved by directly querying the database, but who's going to give you database access? So you'd have to host lemmy yourself just for the bot. And I'd imagine the database would grow pretty fast with the number of communities. I explicitly do not want to store any posts or comments.
Another solution would be using Lemmy's new webhook system, but I don't know how reliable it will be.
So I stopped halfway through and started a new project with new goals:
- Make a new federated platform
With federation, the problems above would be solved.
This also allows it to be hosted without having to find a suitable Lemmy instance for it or even self host one yourself.
- Stronger integration with platforms via a modular federation system
If I made it depend on Lemmy, a strong integration with other platforms wouldn't be possible.
Piefed has features that Lemmy doesn't, for example. People can maintain a set of platform specific activitypub structs and enable the bot to federate with that platform.
Not really answering your question, but I'd like to make a clarification: The bots will only be able to operate within the boundaries of the communities they are appointed to (or I guess groups). They cannot manage any instances. Furthermore, my main intention is for them to be used primarily as moderation bots, but they can also be used as general purpose bots within the community.
To get new posts and comments for all known communities you only need to make regular requests to /api/v3/post/list?limit=50&sort=New&type_=All and /api/v3/comment/list?limit=50&sort=New&type_=All. Its not necessary to make separate requests for each community. The default rate limit allows 180 read requests per minute so you can comfortably poll this every second (in practice every 30s or so should be enough). If you miss an item (ie post or comment id was skipped) just load the following page.
The plugin system in 1.0 would be another option. It will still take some time until that is released, but there shouldnt be any reliability issues.
Youre right that federation solves these problems, but instead you get another problem of writing all this federation code and making sure it is compatible with different platforms. Lemmy's federation code has around 12k lines so that is a lot. It seems much simpler to use the API for Lemmy, Piefed etc and write abstractions for common functionality.
Anyway this is my opinion. Its your project so in the end its your decision how to implement it.
Yep. I did use those endpoints with the ModeratorView (The bot doesn't need posts or comments from communities it doesn't moderate) on my first attempt. I went with the federation approach at last because of future scalability issues. Though that is probably an exaggeration. If the default rate limit is 180 read requests per minute, that would be more than enough, honestly. The scale at which the scalability issues I mentioned would appear at about more than 4500 comments/posts per minute. Frankly, I think we'll never reach that in the near future. So actually the rate limiting issue is practically not an issue for the foreseeable future.
The plugin system would work. The fetching problem would disappear.
Though I don't think the federation code would be huge. I am not trying to make it compatible with all platforms. For example I'll write the required Lemmy ActivityPub structs to send moderation related activities and actors. The Group's instance would handle distributing the activities, so even though this project might not federate with Piefed for example, it would still receive the activities the bot sends to the Group's inbox through the instance's software, Lemmy.
If someone wanted to get the bot to work on another Ap platform that supports groups, they would have to write the necessary Ap actors, activities, and a bit of glue code, and that would be it... or at least that's how I'm planning it.
I guess I'll try to work with the plugin system if I can't achieve what I want and keep it simple. It would at least be a learning experience, if nothing else. Thank you for the info.
With 4500 posts per minute you will probably get a lot of other scaling issues too, like with your database or the processing of incoming and outgoing activities. In any case its a good way to learn how Activitypub works. Is the code open source? Dont see it on your codeberg.
Using the plugin system you basically just need a way to get notified about each new post and comment, right? I expect that will be one of the major use cases for plugins. We will likely provide various official plugins, eg push notifications for Android and iOS. The same thing should also work for you.Version 1.0 will let you subscribe to communities to get notifications for all new posts and comments (code).
Notifications rewrite and post following (fixes #3069) by Nutomic · Pull Request #5604 · LemmyNet/lemmy
Rewrites the notification system to be more flexible and extensible Removes the tables inbox_combined, person_post_mention, person_comment_mention and comment_reply replacing them with a single not...GitHub
True. I am just mostly trying to make a record of this stuff for the future. Obviously in the event of these tools existing, mods wouldn't have to turn them on.
I definitely think there needs to be some rough guide on making your community federated and then advertising it effectively so communities can get that early kick.
there needs to be some rough guide on making your community federated and then advertising it effectively so communities can get that early kick.
We can draft something on !fedigrow@lemmy.zip
install issues?
Hey there! Loaded POP OS to replace Windows on my daily driver:
Dell G15 5530 (I7 - NVIDIA Geforce RTX - 64GB RAM)
and it seems to brick itself? If I refresh OS everything seems to work fine. But as soon as I update UEFI firmware 480 - 20241101 it will not only not find nor update firmware, but I'm having to frequently hard reboot my machine. It might work. It then becomes unresponsive (won't load past disk encryption password, mouse stops working) until I get to the point of refreshing the OS. Rinse and repeat.
Am I doing something wrong? Is it my machine? Anyone else run into this
This post is phrased in an incredibly confusing way that doesn't make parsing the problem possible.
Please rephrase in steps to illustrate the issue you have, such as:
1) This thing
2) Then this thing
3) Then this thing
Emmanuel Macron: I won’t resign, I was elected ‘to serve, to serve, and to serve’ 🤡
Emmanuel Macron: I won’t resign, I was elected ‘to serve, to serve, and to serve’
Sebastien Lecornu will face a no-confidence vote this week after being reappointedAlessandro Parodi (The Independent)
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That was a beautiful read.
But do i find myself conflicted about dismissing it as a potential technical skill all together.
I have seen comfy-ui workflows that are build in a very complex way, some have the canvas devided in different zones, each having its own prompts. Some have no prompts and extract concepts like composition or color values from other files.
I compare these with collage-art which also exists from pre existing material to create something new.
Such tools take practice, there are choices to be made, there is a creative process but its mostly technological knowledge so if its about such it would be right to call it a technical skill.
The sad reality however, is how easy it is to remove parts of that complexity “because its to hard” and barebones it to simple prompt to output. At which point all technical skill fades and it becomes no different from the online generators you find.
I think there’s a stark difference between crafting your own comfyui workflow, getting the right nodes and control nets and checkpoints and whatever, tweaking it until you get what you want, and someone telling an AI “make me a picture/video of X.”
The least AI-looking AI art is the kind that someone took effort to make their own. Just like any other tool.
Unfortunately, gen AI is a tool that gives relatively good results without any skill at all. So most people won’t bother to do the work to make it their own.
I think that, like nearly everything in life, there is nuance to this. But at the same time, we aren’t ready for the nuance because we’re being drowned by slop and it’s horrible.
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All of that's great and everything, but at the end of the day all of the commercial VLM art generators are trained on stolen art. That includes most of the VLMs that comfyui uses as a backend. They have their own cloud service now, that ties in with all the usual suspects.
So even if it has some potentially genuine artistic uses I have zero interest in using a commercial entity in any way to 'generate' art that they've taken elements for from artwork they stole from real artists. Its amoral.
If it's all running locally on open source VLMs trained only on public data, then maybe - but that's what... a tiny, tiny fraction of AI art? In the meantime I'm happy to dismiss it altogether as Ai slop.
If you download a checkpoint from non trustworthy sources definitely and that is the majority of people, but also the majority that does not use the technical tools that deep nor cares about actual art (mostly porn if the largest distributor of models civitai is a reference).
The technical tool that allow actual creativity is called comfyui, and this is open source. I have yet to see anything that is even comparable. Other creative tools (like the krita plugin) use it as a backend.
I am willing to believe that someone with a soul for art and complex flows would also make their own models, which naturally allows much more creativity and is not that hard to do.
"not that hard to do"
Eh, I'm not so sure on that. I often find myself tripping up on the xkcd Average Familiarity problem, so I worry that this assumption is inadvertently a bit gatekeepy.
It's the unfortunate reality that modern tech makes it pretty hard for a person to learn the kind of skills necessary to be able to customise one's own tools. As a chronic tinkerer, I find it easy to underestimate how overwhelming it must feel for people who want to learn but have only ever learned to interface with tech as a "user". That kind of background means that it requires a pretty high level of curiosity and drive to learn, and that's a pretty high bar to overcome. I don't know how techy you consider yourself to be, but I'd wager that anyone who cares about whether something is open source is closer to a techy person than the average person.
I should nuance,
For a person who already actively uses comfyui, knows how the different nodes work,
Makes complex flows with them,
Making their own checkpoints is not a big step up.
I have not gotten to this level myself yet, i am still learning how to properly using different and custom nodes, and yes
In the mean time yes, i experiment with public models that use stolen artwork. But i am not posting any of the results, its pure personal use practice.
I have already seen some stuff about making your own models/checkpoints, if i ever get happy enough with my skills to post it as art then having my own feels like a must. The main reason i haven’t is cause it does take a lot of time to prepare the training data.
People that don’t use their models while calling themselves artist are cheating themselves most of all.
Collage art retains the original components of the art, adding layers the viewer can explore and seek the source of, if desired.
VLMs on the other hand intentionally obscure the original works by sending them through filters and computer vision transformations to make the original work difficult to backtrace. This is no accident, its designed obfuscation.
The difference is intent - VLMs literally steal copies of art to generate their work for cynical tech bros. Classical collages take existing art and show it in a new light, with no intent to pass off the original source materials as their own creations.
The original developers of Stable Diffusion and similar models made absolutely no secret about the source data they used. Where are you getting this idea that they "intentionally obscure the original works... to make [them] difficult to backtrace."? How would an image generation model even work in a way that made the original works obvious?
Literally steal
Copying digital art wasn't "literally stealing" when the MPAA was suing Napster and it isn't today.
For cynical tech bros
Stable Diffusion was originally developed by academics working at a University.
Your whole reply is pretending to know intent where none exists, so if that's the only difference you can find between collage and AI art, it's not good enough.
Stable Diffusion? The same Stable Diffusion sued by Getty Images which claims they used 12 million of their images without permission? Ah yes very non-secretive very moral. And what of industry titans DALL-E and Midjourney? Both have had multiple examples of artists original art being spat out by their models, simply by finessing the prompts - proving they used particular artists copyright art without those artists permission or knowledge.
Stable Diffusion also was from its inception in the hands of tech bros, funded and built with the help of a $3 billion dollar AI company (Runway AI), and itself owned by Stability AI, a made for profit company presently valued at $1 billion and now has James Cameron on its board. The students who worked on a prior model (Latent Diffusion) were hired for the Stable Diffusion project, that is all.
I don't care to drag the discussion into your opinion of whether artists have any ownership of their art the second after they post it on the internet - for me it's good enough that artists themselves assign licences for their work (CC, CC BY-SA, ©, etc) - and if a billion dollar company is taking their work without permission (as in the © example) to profit off it - that's stealing according to the artists intent by their own statement.
If they're taking CC BY-SA and failing to attribute it, then they are also breaking licencing and abusing content for their profit. An VLM could easily add attributes to images to assign source data used in the output - weird none of them want to.
In other words, I'll continue to treat AI art as the amoral slop it is. You are of course welcome to have a different opinion, I don't really care if mine is 'good enough' for you.
Stable Diffusion? The same Stable Diffusion sued by Getty Images which claims they used 12 million of their images without permission? Ah yes very non-secretive very moral. And what of industry titans DALL-E and Midjourney? Both have had multiple examples of artists original art being spat out by their models, simply by finessing the prompts - proving they used particular artists copyright art without those artists permission or knowledge.
Getting sued means Getty images disagrees that the use of the images was legal, not that it was secret, nor that it was moral. Getty images are included in the LAION-5b dataset that Stability AI publicly stated they used to create Stable Diffusion. So it's not "intentionally obscuring" as you claimed.
I don’t care to drag the discussion into your opinion of whether artists have any ownership of their art the second after they post it on the internet - for me it’s good enough that artists themselves assign licences for their work (CC, CC BY-SA, ©, etc) - and if a billion dollar company is taking their work without permission (as in the © example) to profit off it - that’s stealing according to the artists intent by their own statement.
Copying is not theft, no matter how many words you want to write about it. You can steal a painting by taking it off the wall. You can't steal a JPG by right-clicking it and selecting "Copy Image". That's fundamentally different.
An VLM could easily add attributes to images to assign source data used in the output
Oh yeah? Easily? What attribution should a model trained purely on LAION-5b add to an output image if prompted with "photograph of a cat"?
In other words, I’ll continue to treat AI art as the amoral slop it is. You are of course welcome to have a different opinion, I don’t really care if mine is ‘good enough’ for you.
You can do whatever you want (within usual rules) in your personal life, but you chose to enter into a discussion.
From that discussion it's clear that your position is rooted in bias not knowledge. That's why you can't point out substantial differences between AI-generated images and other techniques which re-use existing imagery, why you make up intentions and can't back them up, and why you prefer to dismiss academics as "tech bros" instead of engaging on facts.
Sidestepping the debate about whether AI art is actually fair use, I do find the fair use doctrine an interesting lens to look at the wider issue — in particular, how deciding whether something is fair use is more complex than comparing a case to a straightforward checklist, but a fairly dynamic spectrum.
It's possible that something could be:
* Highly transformative
* Takes from a published work that is primarily of a factual nature (such as a biography)
* Distributed to a different market than the original work
but still not be considered fair use, if it had used the entirety of the base work without modification (in this case, the "highly transformative" would pertain to how the chunks of the base work are presented)
I'm no lawyer, but I find the theory behind fair use pretty interesting. In practice, it leaves a lot to be desired (the way that YouTube's contentID infringes on what would almost certainly be fair use, because Google wants to avoid being taken to court by rights holders, so preempts the problem by being overly harsh to potential infringement). However, my broad point is that whether a court decides something is fair use relies on a holistic assessment that considers all four of pillars of fair use, including how strongly each apply.
AI trained off of artist's works is different to making collage of art because of the scale of the scraping — a huge amount of copyrighted work has been used, and entire works of art were used, even if the processing of them were considered to be transformative (let's say for the sake of argument that we are saying that training an AI is highly transformative). The pillar that AI runs up against the most though is "the effect of the use upon the potential market". AI has already had a huge impact on the market for artistic works, and it is having a hugely negative impact on people's ability to make a living through their art (or other creative endeavours, like writing). What's more, the companies who are pushing AI are making inordinate amounts of revenue, which makes the whole thing feel especially egregious.
We can draw on the ideas of fair use to understand why so many people feel that AI training is "stealing" art whilst being okay with collage. In particular, it's useful to ask what the point of fair use is? Why have a fair use exemption to copyright at all? The reason is because one of the purposes of copyright is meant to be to encourage people to make more creative works — if you're unable to make any money from your efforts because you're competing with people selling your own work faster than you can, then you're pretty strongly disincentivised to make anything at all. Fair use is a pragmatic exemption carved out because of the recognition that if copyright is overly restrictive, then it will end up making it disproportionately hard to make new stuff. Fair use is as nebulously defined as it is because it is, in theory, guided by the principle of upholding the spirit of copyright.
Now, I'm not arguing that training an AI (or generating AI art) isn't fair use — I don't feel equipped to answer that particular question. As a layperson, it seems like current copyright laws aren't really working in this digital age we find ourselves in, even before we consider AI. Though perhaps it's silly to blame computers for this, when copyright wasn't really helping individual artists much even before computers became commonplace. Some argue that we need new copyright laws to protect against AI, but Cory Doctorow makes a compelling argument about how this will just end up biting artists in the ass even worse than the AI. Copyright probably isn't the right lever to pull to solve this particular problem, but it's still a useful thing to consider if we want to understand the shape of the whole problem.
As I see it, copyright exists because we, as a society, said we wanted to encourage people to make stuff, because that enriches society. However, that goal was in tension with the realities of living under capitalism, so we tried to resolve that through copyright laws. Copyright presented new problems, which led to the fair use doctrine, which comes with problems of its own, with or without AI. The reason people consider AI training to be stealing is because they understand AI as a dire threat to the production of creative works, and they attempt to articulate this through the familiar language of copyright. However, that's a poor framework for addressing the problem that AI art poses though. We would be better to strip this down to the ethical core of it so we can see the actual tension that people are responding to.
Maybe we need a more radical approach to this problem. One interesting suggestion that I've seen is that we should scrap copyright entirely and implement a generous universal basic income (UBI) (and other social safety nets). If creatives were free to make things without worrying about fulfilling basic living needs, it would make the problem of AI scraping far lower stakes for individual creatives. One problem with this is that most people would prefer to earn more than what even a generous UBI would provide, so would probably still feel cheated by Generative AI. However, the argument is that GenerativeAI cannot compare to human artists when it comes to producing novel or distinctive art, so the most reliable wa**y to obtain meaningful art would be to give financial support to the artists (especially if an individual is after something of a particular style). I'm not sure how viable this approach would be in practice, but I think that discussing more radical ideas like this is useful in figuring what the heck to do.
I completely agree on pretty much the whole sweep of this. AI just exposes another way in which copyright law is insufficient for the digital age.
On a personal note, a couple of years ago I tried to use chatgpt to write a story. It was shit so I wrote my own. I've taken up drawing again and want to properly learn digital painting.
In my mind, AI doesn't threaten any of this because the enjoyment I get from these things doesn't depend on selling what I do. Artists have been stereotypically starving for a long time because the innate human desire to create exceeds the desire of people to pay.
Allowing people to satisfy that desire without literally starving should be a societal goal.
I get what you're saying.
I often find myself being the person in the room with the most knowledge about how Generative AI (and other machine learning) works, so I tend to be in the role of the person who answers questions from people who want to check whether their intuition is correct. Yesterday, when someone asked me whether LLMs have any potential uses, or whether the technology is fundamentally useless, and the way they phrased it allowed me to articulate something better than I had previously been able to.
The TL;DR was that I actually think that LLMs have a lot of promise as a technology, but not like this; the way they are being rolled out indiscriminately, even in domains where it would be completely inappropriate, is actually obstructive to properly researching and implementing these tools in a useful way. The problem at the core is that AI is only being shoved down our throats because powerful people want to make more money, at any cost — as long as they are not the ones bearing that cost. My view is that we won't get to find out the true promise of the technology until we break apart the bullshit economics driving this hype machine.
I agree that even today, it's possible for the tools to be used in a way that's empowering for the humans using them, but it seems like the people doing that are in the minority. It seems like it's pretty hard for a tech layperson to do that kind of stuff, not least of all because most people struggle to discern the bullshit from the genuinely useful (and I don't blame them for being overwhelmed). I don't think the current environment is conducive towards people learning to build those kinds of workflows. I often use myself as a sort of anti-benchmark in areas like this, because I am an exceedingly stubborn person who likes to tinker, and if I find it exhausting to learn how to do, it seems unreasonable to expect the majority of people to be able to.
I like the comic's example of Photoshop's background remover, because I doubt I'd know as many people who make cool stuff in Photoshop without helpful bits of automation like that ("cool stuff" in this case often means amusing memes or jokes, but for many, that's the starting point in continuing to grow). I'm all for increasing the accessibility of an endeavour. However, the positive arguments for Generative AI often feels like it's actually reinforcing gatekeeping rather than actually increasing accessibility; it implicitly divides people into the static categories of Artist, and Non-Artist, and then argues that Generative AI is the only way for Non-Artists to make art. It seems to promote a sense of defeatism by suggesting that it's not possible for a Non-Artist to ever gain worthwhile levels of skill. As someone who sits squarely in the grey area between "artist" and "non-artist", this makes me feel deeply uncomfortable.
We are on the same base,
I actually had a friend who jokingly mocked me for liking ai because i was initially very exited ablut Dall-E and ChatGPT 3.5
Back then i could only see the potential that it continues to have. OpenAI appeared to have altruistic goals and was a non profit. Trojan horse it turned out to be.
Had to make pretty clear to my friend that “ yes, but not like this, everything but this” about the current slop situation.
This was a great read! As someone who was initially excited about the possibilities of AI art, it's been hit or miss with me.
I've come to realise over time that I like the connection that art offers. The little moment of 'I wonder what the artist was thinking when they imagined this and what experiences did someone have to get to a place where they could visualize and create this?'
And I think that's what missing with AI art. Sure, it can enable someone like me who has no skill with drawing to create something but it doesn't get to the point of putting my actual imagination down. The repeated tries can only get to point of 'close enough'.
For me, looking at a piece and then learning it's AI art is basically realizing that I'm looking at a computer generated imitation of someone's imagination. Except the imitation was created by describing the art instead of the imitator ever looking at it. An connection I could have felt with original human is watered down as to be non-existent.
I made a comment about a week ago about how copying people's art is still art, and it was a bit of an aha moment as I pinpointed for myself a big part of why I find image generators and the like so soulless, inwardly echoing a lot of what Inman lays out here.
All human made art, from the worst to the best, embodies the effort of the artist. Their intent and their skill. Their attempt to make something, to communicate something. It has meaning. All generative art does is barf up random noise that looks like pictures. It's impressive technology, and I understand that it's exciting, but it's not art. If humans ever end up creating actual artificial intelligence, then we can talk about machine made art. Until then, it's hardly more than a printer in terms of artistic merit.
It's impressive technology, and I understand that it's exciting, but it's not art.
I would add that a lot (most?) graphical elements we encounter in daily lives do not require art or soul in the least. Stock images on web pages, logos, icons etc. are examples of graphical elements that are IMO perfectly fine to use AI image generation for. It's the menial labour of the artist profession that is now being affected by modern automation much like so many other professions have been before them. All of them resisted so of course artists resist too.
The impact on livelihoods is important, but it's ultimately unrelated to defining what art is. My consideration of art is not one born of fear of losing money, but purely out of appreciation for the craft. I don't think it's entirely fair to suggest all the criticisms against generated art is solely borne of self-preservation.
In regards to corporate "art", all the things you listed, even stock images, are certainly not the purest form of artistry, but they still have (or, at least had) intent suffusing their creation. I suppose the question then is - is there a noticeable difference between the two for corporations? Will a generated logo have the same impact as a purposefully crafted on does? In my experience, the generated products I've noticed feel distinctly hollow. While past corporate assets are typically hollow shells of real art, generated assets are even less. They're a pure concentration of corporate greed and demand, without the "bothersome" human element. Maybe that won't matter in their course of business, but I think it might. Time will tell.
I'd argue that logos are a hugely expressive form. It's just that 90% of them are basic ass shit tier stuff.
AI has basically raised the level of "shit tier" pretty high. I sometimes go check out Hotone Audio's Facebook page to see if there are new firmware updates for my device, but they mainly peddle pointless AI slop marketing images. I'm sure there are tons of companies like this.
It's the literal example of the marketing person being able to churn out pictures without an artist being involved, and thus the output is a pile of crap even more vapid than stock photos.
the how is really quite irrelevant
That's our point. The how is entirely relevant. It's what makes art interesting and meaningful. Without the how and why, it's just colors and noise.
it's just colors and noise.
But that's exactly my point; logos, icons, stock images etc. are already nothing but noise meant to just catch the eye...might as well just get it auto-generated.
You've stated as much already. If we're just repeating ourselves here, I'll just copy-paste.
That you can’t see or appreciate the intent of the artist behind those doesn’t mean it’s not there or not important.
Not really. It's the equivalent of ordering a "build it yourself" sandwich where you specify type of bread and content, and having someone else make it. Yes you didn't actually assemble the sandwich yourself, but who cares how that happened, you have the sandwich you wanted, it contains what you wanted, it tastes and looks like you intended.
I'm not arguing that people using AI generated images can call themselves artists, I'm arguing that AI generated can have a useful purpose replacing menial "art" work.
and having someone else make it.
No, having a soulless machine make it.
Then claiming that you made it yourself even though all you did was select a few things on a menu.
Way to shit on everyone who's job it is to make those things.
Why do you think logos and so on have no artistic value? What defines value? Because if it's influencing people and culture, then logos definitely do.
Corporate art sucks ass but it's still made using choices, which ai doesn't do.
Your example is shit. It would be more appropriate for when you commission a piece of work from someone, where they are using their skills and choices and you're telling them what you want and don't want on the sandwich.
AI doesn't make choices when creating an image. It generates an image based off of other images and you hope that it gets something that follows some aesthetic principles that it's lifting from other images. Just because you reroll the die doesn't mean you're choosing shit.
That "menial" process when you're making art is literally the best part. When you're painting a sky for the background of something you don't want that just filled in, that's where you can experiment and maybe even add an element that you weren't thinking of before when you started the piece. AI can't do that for you.
I've been practicing at being a better writer, and one of the ways I've been doing that is by studying the writing that I personally really like. Often I can't explain why I click so much with a particular style of writing, but by studying and attempting to learn how to copy the styles that I like, it feels like a step towards developing my own "voice" in writing.
A common adage around art (and other skilled endeavours) is that you need to know how to follow the rules before you can break them, after all. Copying is a useful stepping stone to something more. It's always going to be tough to learn when your ambition is greater than your skill level, but there's a quote from Ira Glass that I've found quite helpful:
"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know it's normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take a while. You’ve just gotta fight your way through."
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I want to touch on how he mentions hitting the button to automatically make music on a Casio keyboard.
I fully realize I'm being reductive to the point of being offensive but that's not my intent and I preemptively apologize, when I say: that's at least in part, the very first seed to becoming a professional DJ. That's not nothing.
Using AI to generate images can be the same thing if it's extrapolated out into complexity and layered nuance. It might not make you an artist exactly, in the same way that a DJ might not be a musician but it IS a skillset that potentially has value.
And even if you think I'm totally off-base in saying so? I liked pretending with the little automatic music button on the keyboard.
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All good, was just wondering.
I do DJ (non-professionally). I generally think there are two skills with DJing:
- Taste, library management and music choice, which is not a technical skill, but does take a bit of effort in preparing for a set
- Actual technical mixing skills, which many DJs (including me) barely have, but some take to a level that is on basically a form of musicianship.
I don't think AI can really help you do either.. but I guess it could make a mixed set and you could pretend to play it, like a Casio keyboard
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I was kinda against their argument at first, then I was with them and continued reading. But then they went into all sorts of detail, weighing pros and cons etc., and after reading more than half I evtl. gave up.
It seems all "why AI is bad" articles seem to go this way.
It seems all "why AI is bad" articles unwillingly even support the hype.
Fuck AI "art", it's not art you morons, it's automation, which takes away real people's jobs. The current implementations made by greedy companies also very obviously steal. 'nuff said.
I know that art is an art of it's own and a way to express human creativity.
However people also complained once the loom was invented. It took lots of jobs.
The job argument is usually a stupid one.
The lack of creativity and quality is of course a much better argument against AI art.
The job argument is usually a stupid one.
The what? It's the only one that objectively makes sense.
Ok imagine this:
You are an construction worker. The job is hard but the pay is okay.
Now robots replace your job slowly. They are cheaper and more accurate.
You can now:
- Complain about the robots stealing your job
- Be happy that you don't have to do the hard work anymore.
Many people will go for 1. But the actual issue is that the social security net isn't existent or so weak that no job means no food.
That is not the fault of technology though.
Remember that when you vote and when politicians want to cut costs by reducing payments for the unemployed.
Option 2 is soulless.
Option 3. Destroy the capitalists owned robots and bring the robots under the control of the working class.
I liked it, personally. I've read plenty of AI bad articles, and I too am burnt out on them. However, what I really appreciated about this was that it felt less like a tirade against AI art and more like a love letter to art and the humans that create it. As I was approaching the ending of the comic, for example, when the argument had been made, and the artist was just making their closing words, I was struck by the simple beauty of the art. It was less the shapes and the colours themselves that I found beautiful, but the sense that I could practically feel the artist straining against the pixels in his desperation to make something that he found beautiful — after all, what would be the point if he couldn't live up to his own argument?
I don't know how far you got through, but I'd encourage you to consider taking another look at it. It's not going to make any arguments you've not heard before, but if you're anything like me, you might appreciate it from the angle of a passionate artist striving to make something meaningful in defiance of AI. I always find my spirits bolstered by work like this because whilst we're not going to be able to draw our way out of this AI-slop hellscape, it does feel important to keep reminding ourselves of what we're fighting for.
As a passable quality 3D artist who does it for a living I've found AI art (which can do 3D now to some degree) has kind of narrowed the scope for me. If you want generic Unreal style pseudo-realism or disney toon then AI can do that for you* I've had to focus much more on creating a unique style and also optimizing my work in ways that AI just doesn't have the ability to do because they require longer chains of actual reasoning.
For AI in general I think this pattern holds, it can quickly create something generic and increasingly do it without extranious fingers but no matter how much you tweak a prompt its damn near impossible to get a specific idea into image form. Its like a hero shooter with skins VS actually creating your own character.
**Right now AI models use more tris to re-create the default blender cube than my entire lifetime portfolio but I'm assuming that can be resolved since we already have partially automated re-topology tools.*
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I often hear AI enthusiasts say that AI democratized art. As if art weren't already democratized. Most anyone can pick up a pen, draw, write, type, move a mouse, etc. What AI democratizes in art, is the perception of skill. Which is why when you find out a piece of art was made by inputting some short prompt into a generator, you become disappointed. Because it would be cool, if the person actually had the skill to draw that. Pushing a few buttons to get that, not so much.
Edit:spelling and spacing
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What makes you want to do art? I'm just curious, because I am also someone who has bounced off of attempting to learn to do art a bunch of times, and found tracing unfulfilling (I am abstaining from the question of whether tracing is art, but I do know it didn't scratch the itch for me).
For my part, I ended up finding that crafts like embroidery or clothing making was the best way to channel my creative inclinations, but that's mostly because I have the heart of a ruthless pragmatist and I like making useful things. What was it that caused you to attempt to learn?
I like and admire visual arts. I wanted to try to be able to do the thing. I have a strong imagination and extremely good visualization skills, so I wanted to be able to take things from my minds eye to reality.
I have found much of my art/creative outlet in dancing and crafting.
What AI democratizes in art, is the perception of skill.
I was a professional artist for many years, and often noted a strong preference for photo-realistic art among non-artists, often to the exclusion of any other style or aesthetic. The people around me who tried to draw or paint or sculpt, even just one time, often had an appreciation for a more diverse array of approaches and media.
To me, most AI 'art' feels like the product of 'artists' who don't even really like art.
What a beautiful read. I feel the same about AI art and I remember a longer talk I had with my tattoo artist: 'I need the money so I will do AI based tattoos my clients bring to me. But they have no soul, no story, no individuality. They are not a part of you.'
I feel the same.
Also I like Oatmeal's reference to Wabi Sabi: The perfection of imperfection in every piece of art.
At least by redrawing it, the tattoo artist is injecting (pun intended) some of the human skill and decision-making into it?
But, ugh! Who would get an AI tattoo?
And what's the point? Let's say I have an idea of a tattoo I want (Jack Sparrow, dressed in a McDonald's uniform, fighting off a rabid poodle, in the style of Baroque painting), but I cannot draw. So I use AI to render it, how clever!
But wait - a tattoo artist will be physically drawing it anyway. They know how to develop concepts into sketches, don't they?
Just get them to do it! Skip the pointless AI step!
It was an ok read for me, but mostly because I enjoyed the art rather than relating to the entirety of the sentiment.
I'm an artist and I find AI art evocative and illustrating things in a way that I wish that I could illustrate, but feel that is only because it comes from real human artists. I agree that it is a void in terms of difficulty to process, but there is still skill involved in both using search engines and describing something to an llm. A minute amount of skill, but still a skill.
I hate AI art because it is stealing from artists, not because it doesn't feel right. It can have a million iterations and only needs to get it right once to count as feeling right to me. The relationship between the content and their artists to the ultimate product is removed, this to me is the wrongfulness of claiming new art from it. It is just stealing in a more wind-about manor. This isn't like generating fractal art or something.
After all these years of corporations fucking up the literal social fabric and and how we communicate over IP law, for them to turn around and steal everything and just get a pass is an extra slap in face. Stealing only gets allowed2 one way in our society, and AI is just another example of that.
I'm honestly surprised to not see this take more from others and felt like i needed to mention it.
edit: emphasized that by making AI art taking skill, I only mean just a minute amount.
I think AI art serves a different purpose from the art we talk about when we say "real art has heart" or "the process of creating the art affected me when I looked at it".
I think about how I feel when I'm scrolling through pictures in some app on my phone - some will be memes, some will be cats, but then some will be there for artistic purposes. As I'm scrolling through, such a picture will spark a brief glimmer of emotion - "huh, that looks neat" for example. I'm not looking close and examining the brush strokes, not thinking about what troubles the artist went through, and not thinking about the process of its creation at all.
In that context I don't think it makes much difference that it's AI-generated. I'd kind of like to know, and I don't want to see a dozen different outputs of the same prompt because whoever hit the button couldn't even apply the modicum of effort require to pick their favourite, but AI-generated images are just as able to instigate that glimmer of "hey that looks cool" that any image can.
There's zero need to throw insults around; I made the context absolutely clear in my comment and it has nothing to do with what I do when at an art gallery or something.
Maybe some people are having an experience like they are looking at a Rembrandt when they scroll through /c/pics or something, but I'm not. Do you also shit on people for being unable to appreciate music because they put something on in the background? Is it only OK to go to concerts and immerse yourself in it? If you're in a shop and a tune you like comes on, do you park your cart to really appreciate the depths of emotion it's inspiring in you?
Of course you don't.
Well I'm not going to slap you on the back and praise you for saying the equivalent of "I just eat potato chips anyway I don't care if the new chips are made of styrofoam they still got flavor blasted".
Also, I totally disagree with you. If I see a neat picture someone took from getting dropped onto earth from low orbit, I'm gonna think that's way cooler than an ai image trying to emulate the same thing, even if I'm only looking at it for a second. I'm going to think a crudely drawn parody of a meme is funnier than an ai generated imitation of a meme, even if all I'm doing is making that little exhale with the nose instead of laughing.
There's a difference. You can tell. If you're so Internet addled you genuinely are saying you don't think there's a difference, then you've got like, negative skills in art appreciation.
what’s the point of taking art classes?
The point is the same as taking classes for any other skill, from baseball to carpentry: you have to learn technique before you can engrain the skill through practice. Some people can pick it up on their own if they're motivated enough, by studying other people's art, watching artists working, reading books, etc., but it's more difficult and time-consuming without an instructor's feedback. Sometimes they even figure it out wrong, and develop a very difficult and time-consuming method of doing something when a much simpler one exists.
So it's optimal to both have the classes and do extensive practice outside of them. One is not a substitute for the other.
I think this is completely missing the point when it's talking about "the minutiae of art". It's making two claims at the same time: art is better when you suffer for it and the art is good whether or not you suffered. But none of that is relevant.
When Wyeth made Christina's World, I don't know if he suffered or not when painting that grass. What I do know is that he was a human with limited time and the fact that he spent so much of his time detailing every blade of grass means that he's saying something. That The Oatmeal doesn't draw backgrounds might be because he's lazy, but he also doesn't need them. These are choices we make to put effort in one part and ignore some other part.
AI doesn't make choices. It doesn't need to. A detailed background is exactly the same amount of work as a plain one. And so a generated picture has this evenly distributed level of detail, no focus at all. You don't really know where to look, what's important, what the picture is trying to say. Because it's not saying anything. It isn't a rat with a big butt, it's just a cloud of noise that happens to resemble a rat with a big butt.
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it's just a cloud of noise that happens to resemble a rat with a big butt.
I’d like this on my tombstone
Your ghost: "It's about AI art."
Visitor: "...I still don't get it."
Ghost: "That's because you're a robot. Everybody's just robots now. Us ghosts are all that's left of humanity. All that you know is based on what we suffered to learn and create."
Robot visitor: "...but why a rat with a big butt?"
Ghost: "Draw one, and reflect on the cloud of noise that you produce instead."
Robot: *draws a rat with a big butt
Ghost: "...AI wasn't as good back then. Fuck you." *whisps away
It was a good read until he started with the art is a skill and anyone can do it. He's kind of in his bubble there making assumptions about people. People have various levels of aphantasia, it's not binary. Those that are good at visual imagination do art, people without can't draw a fucking apple from memory reasonable art is beyond many, even if they had the time to dedicate to it.
Everything else he said was on point. well eventually on point, that was a long ride.
Edit: Man, look at all these talented people telling me I could be talented too if I just tried. Some of you might find a shocking revelation in thevfact that not everyone has the ability to perform the skill you perform. Some people, like me, have put several thousand hours into trying to improve my ability to draw, and while it has improved slightly, I am still not capable of drying anything above rudimentary. Talented people find it easy to project their skill onto other people but that's not how it works. It's not just a feeling that you can't do it, it's trying for years and not being able to do anything appreciable with it. My seven-year-old had more skill out of the gate than I had after scoring around with it for 30 years. So keep on telling me that I could just do it if I'd just invest the time and make yourself feel better that you invest at the time. That's truly helpful to me.
One of the things I find most awesome about art is seeing how so many people with different capacities find ways to make art.
I likely have aphantasia, and whilst I call myself an artist, there are times where I see a particular shape or form within the world and think "damn, that's beautiful". I find myself taking a mental note of it, because whilst I don't make art, I do enjoy making clothes. Aphantasia does make it hard to take those experiences and make cool stuff out of them, because without a mental image to work from, it may take me many attempts to correctly mark out the shape, where my only guiding sense is whether a particular attempt looks right though. It hasn't stopped me from making things I'm truly proud of though, and a key thing that drives me to keep creating is that sense of fulfillment I get from taking something beautiful from the world and reusing it in a manner that allows me to share that slice of wonder with other people.
I feel like I've only been half decent at that in recent years though; before that, I tended to focus on the more technical aspects of the craft, but that doesn't mean it wasn't creative. I made a chainmail hauberk for myself once, because the base technique didn't seem hard and it seemed like it would be fun (turns out the hard part is sticking with it long enough to make a whole item). Part of my quest was that I knew that wearing a sturdy belt over a chainmail hauberk is essential for the weight to be properly distributed, and I thought it might be cool to use an underbust corset in place of a belt. The creative part of that required little, if any, visual imagination — I mostly just enjoyed the juxtaposition of the traditionally masculine armour with the femininity of the corset.
Beyond my own personal experiences, I've been awed by seeing so many examples of creative people working with what limitations they have, and honing their skills in whatever way they can. A close friend has such poor vision that they legally count as blind, but their paintings have such incredible colours — they have a beautiful diffuseness to them, which is apparently how they see the world. Seeing their art makes me feel closer to them. Unfortunately, they've recently suffered injury to their hands, so they can't paint like they used to — so they have found new ways to paint that don't rely on their hands so much. And there's even more examples of this kind of persistence if we consider music to be art too.
I don't really give a fuck about art — not really. I care about the people who make it. I get that it's frustrating to try something creative when your skill can't match up to your figurative creative vision, but that's also a problem that even experienced artists struggle with. If you made something that required little to no skill, but it was something that you had cared about, then that's enough to make me care. That might sound silly given that you're just a random person on the internet to me, but that's precisely why I care; art makes me feel connected to people I've never even met.
People who make the point that you're making are often people who have within them the desire to make art, but they feel that it's inaccessible to them. I know, because I was one of them (years before AI hit the zeitgeist). I realise that this may not apply to you, and you might be speaking in a more general sense, but if it does, then I would hope that you would someday feel able to give things a go. I think it'd be a shame if someone with a desire to create never got the chance to see where that could go. I'm not saying "maybe you could start a career as an artist", because even highly proficient artists often struggle to make a career out of art that doesn't kill their soul (most working artists I know use their paid work to support work that's more artistically fulfilling to them). Just know that if you make things that you care about, there will always be people who will care about what you make.
I say this as someone who has just written out a veritable essay full of care in reply to someone I'm probably never going to speak about. And hey, if you've gotten this far, then that is surely evidence towards my point about how making stuff you care about causes people to care about what you've made — either that, or you've jumped to the bottom in search of a TL;DR. Regardless, people like me care so much about art because human connection helps us to survive this pretty grim world, and art is our most reliable way of doing that. I'd love to have you here with us, if you'd like to be.
But... It is a skill... And anyone can develop that skill. That's how skills work. Nobody is born good at anything. It takes practice and education.
And aphantasia does not stop one from being able to draw. There are a lot of artists, authors and other creatives that have aphantasia.
Uh, lots of really great painters have aphantasia. It's very prominent in the population and 100% not a medical disability. Art is a skill. There's people without arms that paint. Deaf people who make music. There's blind people drawing. There's this cool japanese girl without an arm that plays the violin. There's all sorts of people who make art, because humans can't not make art.
Are you going to win prices and sell work for millions of dollars, or feature at the MOMA, or play at the Superbowl half time show? Or achieve any of the inane arbitrary goalpost that people like to set for calling stuff real art. Most assuredly you won't. Because less than 0.1% of all the people in the planet will achieve any of that. But every single child has and will be born an artist. Every child draws, sings, dances and plays spontaneously. All that is art.
If you think only people born artists can make art, congratulations, you were born an artists, every human is, go do your art. If you think only specific people with extraordinary characteristics get to make art. I'm sorry you were hurt so bad to develop such bleak worldview and poor self image.
If you do art, you'll get good at art. If you don't do art and instead make the slop machine manufacture expensive Styrofoam for you to chew on, then you'll never get good at art. Regardless of your biological makeup. Being shit at doing something is the first and mandatory step for becoming good at doing something. Do it poorly until you can do it decently, then do it some more. Art is the experience of doing art. Even bad art is superior to mass consumption generated pixels.
While I appreciate the pep talk, I truly think your heart is in the right place. You just claim that my artwork is better without having any view of my artwork or knowledge of my skill.
This is a very common thing that people do. You can't conceive that someone can't do something, so you blame them on their persistence, or their ID or their ego. I don't know what your skills are, but it feels an awful lot like projection.
It's not like I'm useless at art, I can sculpt 3D objects from 3D objects. I can even, with limited success, use Zbrush.
It was none of those things actually. It's impossible to objectively judge our own artworks. We can analyze it, tell others what we think are the strong and weak points, but it's extremely common for most people, especially when it comes to art, to judge it with a much higher degree of scrutiny that we do not reserve for others.
It's something I've had to work through myself, both with my art and myself as a person. And with that comes an inherent distrust of others opinions of themselves and their work, especially when it's excessively dismissive or pessimistic.
Google Confirms Non-ADB APK Installs Will Require Developer Registration
Google Confirms Non-ADB APK Installs Will Require Developer Registration
After the news cycle recently exploded with the announcement that Google would require every single Android app to be from a registered and verified developer, while killing third-party app stores …Hackaday
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Google can go fuck itself.
Hopefully this will put some jet fuel into the Linux phone development.
I'm checking out Graphene OS next week and pretty pumped about it. This Google ratfucking has been just the push I need to get off Android.
And obviously I haven't stopped telling people around me haha
I don't see why it would need to be affected.
The constraint to require a valid signing isn't something imposed by the license on the Android code. If you want to distribute a version of Android that doesn't check for a registered signature, that should work fine.
I mean, the Graphene guys could impose that constraint. But they don't have to do so.
I think that there's a larger issue of practicality, though. Stuff like F-Droid works in part because you don't need to install an alternative firmware on your phone --- it's not hard to install an alternate app store with the stock firmware. If suddenly using a package from a developer that isn't registered with Google requires installing an alternate firmware, that's going to severely limit the potential userbase for that package.
Even if you can handle installing the alternate firmware, a lot of developers probably just aren't going to bother trying to develop software without being registered.
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But if Graphene chooses not to do this, they diverge from the Android project. Which will take more time to maintain the project which will ultimately lead to more developers burning out and dropping out of the project.
It doesn’t need to be affected, but most open source projects don’t have the resources to keep going against big companies when most of their users aren’t contributing.
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But I do know that users of open source projects expecting changes to come out of thin air, and filing bugs when they don’t, is hurting the volunteers behind open source projects.
So we should all make sure to volunteer some of our own time or money to keep the projects we love going, instead of just expecting them to fix the things we dislike.
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F-Droid works [...][...]
[...] that's going to severely limit the potential userbase for that package.
I don't think most developers who are putting their Open-Source apps on F-Droid have any minimum user threshold.
Developer ID verification will be part of Google Play and won't be present in GrapheneOS
Straight from the horse's mouth. The rest of the post is a good reminder that GrapheneOS are morons.
But why would you lie about this?
Graphene is bult on top of android AOSP, which is owned by google... And of course they are fucking it over.
Check calyxos.org s recent blog posts, it is basically dying (and graphene is the same)
calyxos.org/news/2025/06/11/an…
Thats what I was referring to, but yeah, that is also a thing.
For mobile phones that works as a daily driver? Gobbling up iOS. Or gobbling up what's becoming of Android.
I really wish we had open phones that "just work". I'd even go with slightly quirky but functional. Unfortunately, that requires strong cooperation between hardware maker and software developers; and it will require a lot of work. But that's not the main issue. The direction we're headed toward is "everything need an official app", and those will mostly only work on "official" phones made by big manufacturers.
Even today, making some bank apps work on non vanilla Android is not always straightforward, and it's still relatively open and easy to do. The move by Google is going to tighten this even more, and I have no doubt, if they pull through, that this will go in the requirements for the "play protect" validation BS. Meaning if you want that bank app, or whatever state digital ID app (meh) to work, you'll need a "real" Android or an iOS device. And those apps are becoming more and more mandatory (I can't log-in to my bank's online website without their app and proprietary 2FA…).
A niche, open-source OS, Linux or modified AOSP or whatever, will have a hard time filling that gap as things keep moving. Which is really sad.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Han…
Google doesn't "own" Android. They (and the OHA) are the maintainers. AOSP is open source.
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Most F-Droid users are NOT custom ROMs.
This means that as long as F-Droid does not get their own developer key - it will become useless.
F-Droid is privacy focused - both dev and user, and they oppose requiring devs to essentially give up their privacy and sign the APK with their own dev key.
Now, if F-Droid is dead, GrapheneOS becomes useless. Who would want to develop apps for the 0.0001% of the population (i.e custom ROM users)
This.
I am the person you are talking about. I've looked into graphene before and I do host some of my own services at home. I also work full time and I don't want to spend all of my free time managing things. I use F-Droid, but I am on stock android on my pixel.
I appreciate the privacy and FOSS nature of F-Droid, but I use things like Android auto Google maps for work, I use banking apps on my phone as well. I know technically micro G and blah blah blah, but like I said: work full time.
Shizuku provides this fully on-device for android 10 or 11 and above, and droid-ify supports using shizuku to install apps.
The one main downside is that it only works when you're connected to wifi.
GitHub - RikkaApps/Shizuku: Using system APIs directly with adb/root privileges from normal apps through a Java process started with app_process.
Using system APIs directly with adb/root privileges from normal apps through a Java process started with app_process. - RikkaApps/ShizukuGitHub
All APKs will need a valid Google developer signature.
Doesn't matter if it's installed from GitHub or F-Droid, no signature, no installation.
I haven't used revanced in a while, but Fennic + ubo + sponsor block should get you to basically the same place unless they've added new features since I used it last.
No separate app required.
All APKs will require a signed developer certificate.
I doubt they will be signing keys for developers who circumvent Google's services, or that violate their ToS.
They're copying this scheme from Apple in Europe, when it was forced to allow other app stores.
In that case, Apple revoked certificates for apps it didn't like, such as P2P/torrents. Mind you, these were NOT apps that were not hosted on Apple's App Store.
They're doing the same thing Apple has been doing for years, I used to run a self-signing application which ran every week or so by itself.
Workarounds are going to exist plenty, it's just a slap in the face. Especially because the Play Store is filled with malware. Apple's strict rules are horrible for developers, but at least it's not as riddled with malware.
Big gov and big corp are essentially the same thing. And while the people jump ship to be at the mercy of the "better side", the elites are sharing a cocktail in secret.
The scale still remains, however one side tilted more so than the other.
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Luckily it's not the same body in the EU who's in charge of enforcing AND setting up proposals.
The EU is not a "one opinion" government body.
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They usually sue if the practice doesnt stop for over a year. They do send warnings before anything official comes out FYI.
But I dont know if they want to do anything though. No one but them and Apple knows for sure.
That's actually a really interesting question.
I understand that Apple takes issue with packages that can themselves "take packages". But historically, I don't believe that Google has. Of course, Google also hasn't done the registration thing historically, either.
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You don't need a credit card for a dev account. You do, however, need to have a "business" attached. Luckily, that business they're asking for doesn't need to be verified, so it can be just a random string of letters.
Still bs that you have to go through all of that just to install apps you want.
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Just about. There used to be more, but if im honest, if it works in iOS then its a decent experience most of the time.
But my custom apps makes or breaks my phone. Its so convenient.
Ill probably get a uconsole or something. Or keep my current phone til all this blows over.
iOS is infinitely more polished than Android. It's rather stable and at least the main notification system isn't that bad for privacy.
Edit: I want to inquire: what exactly is wrong about my comments. Android is a piece of shit. iOS is a piece of shit. iOS is smoother because Apple can engineer the parts more smoothly. Android lets you run software. I hate them both but I need to run Termux.
Its terrible for security haha. We were able to 0 day it a couple of times without trying all that hard. So many CVEs that are repeatable. I wil admit the UI is phenominally better (in my opinion). And the official apps (as long as you dont want to do something specific) are perfect at what they do.
Android is a bit better but you can exploit it because people dont update their phones. Google is actually VERY good at keep those up to date...but if no one updates, its kinda a wash.
Again my opinion, im not too attached to either. They both suck in their own unique ways. #1 is you have to use their tool sets which is unique instead of any other computer system. Its such a hassle to keep up with as a software developer.
Really depends which spin of Android you have. I have a Nothing Phone 2 and the OS is arguably more polished than on my SO's iPhone 14, which frequently has bugs, lag, and crashes. You can't really generalise about Android when there are so many versions of it.
That being said I'll probably be looking into Linux phones in the next few years because I'm tired of corporations trying to control my devices.
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see what phone you have in that post.
Could you clarify?
I wasn't denying the fact that you're experiencing this issue, but since this is the first I've heard of something this bad in my 3 years of using GrapheneOS, this does appear to be a fairly unique case.
Provided you are using an otherwise well-functioning and currently supported device (and not an emulator), and that you are using a stable release installed via an official method (and there were no install issues), your best bet would be to ask for help in one of the community chats or forums:
grapheneos.org/contact#communi…
You will be asked to share which device you are using though, which you did not seem comfortable doing in the post you linked to.
Unrelated, but I learned about the Android "task manager" (Running Services) from that post of yours, so thanks for sharing that.
Yeah that unfortunately seems to be the only option if you don't want to completely reset your device or remove apps one at a time to find the culprit. And there's no guarantee either of those will work anyway.
I've actually found a small number other users reporting a similar issue, though dev responses all seem to believe the issue is likely caused by apps rather than the OS. The fact that the issue is exclusive to GrapheneOS doesn't appear to have swayed them into looking into it unfortunately.
If I were in your position I'd probably use the Auto Reboot setting so at least you don't have to do it manually every day. It reboots after a specified number of hours without an unlock, so it's ideal for when you're asleep.
I guess it depends on the specific apps we use. Some can be pretty massive, but I have heaps of APKs that are <30MB, and even several that are <1MB.
Maybe a couple of large enough apps could be the issue if you always have them open, or if they are running services on your phone.
"It works on my machine"
The fact of the matter is that Android is hacked on top of Linux and there's endless problems because of it. One part is that there's no task manager and system apps eat up well over half my memory which means that once I open one app, the other needs to be immediately evicted from RAM
Fuck google and every piece of shit implementing this for them.
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I was able to set custom APN settings on my Pixel to bypass the tethering block that MetroPCS puts on their cheapest plan.
There is nothing in iOS that lets you do that.
I also can't run WiFi scanners on iOS.
And Android will still have ADB sideloading. On iOS I have to run shit like Sideloadly to re-sign applications every 7 days.
If you're a true Android fan, there is still a lot to keep you on the platform.
Get a fairphone, install Ubuntu touch and stop rolling over like a good little dog.
And their flagship costs more than the iPhone 17 Pro but has performance closer to the iPhone 11 and they still sell your data off the back end.
Android was a fine alternative to iOS for a minute… like in 2012 with the Galaxy S3 and Jellybean. Now? I don’t get it. You pay more, you get less, all because — what? Gmail was once cool?
They took your headphone jack. They took your memory card slot. They took your back button. (Anyone remember the menu button?) Now they’re taking sideloading.
What is even the point of Android? It isn’t freedom. I see it as capitulation to Big Data.
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I'm not sure where the thought that it's clunky comes from, but the advantage to me is that I like the Android OS way more the the Apple OS. I don't care about integration across devices because I don't have more than one android device. Anytime I switch phones I login and everything loads in from my latest back up and it just works. I can connect to my computer with KDE connect or plug in with USB C if needed.
I'm not claiming it's a better functioning product, I'm just saying the Android UX > Apple UX. The pixel has the advantage of flashing something like grapheneOS which no iPhones can do. Even with locking down side loading apps, there is still more freedom on Android devices than there are on iOS.
Also, I don't like the feel of iPhones. I'm sure it's something I would get used to, but it's not my first choice.
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I agree about Graphene OS, of course.
I’ve used Android since launch and occasionally switched back and forth with iOS. One of my main complaints is in virtue of Android’s versatility, which makes it less reliable and straightforward to use — no integrated password manager, no easy wireless connection to external computers, less smooth and pleasant (and easy) to use. Honestly, I’m just lazy. I want my text messages and calls migrated to my computer automatically, screen sharing, file sharing, passwords and security codes populating instantly, and so on.
I'm the complete opposite with respect to wanting all of those apps and features built into the OS, but I understand that's what most people seem to want, which is largely why iPhones are so popular.
To me, all of that built-in stuff is bloatware that I have to remove just so I can use whichever software I want.
I'll take a bit of jank if it means I have the freedom to do what I want on my device (and choose a device with the specs that matter to me within my budget). That's why so many people are upset at this news.
The Apple ecosystem is perfectly suitable for the needs you described, and it's not something Google will be able to match due to their lack of a real competitor in the desktop OS market. Microsoft had their chance with the Windows Phone but, knowing Windows, I doubt it would ever have had the same level of polish as iOS.
What about it is better? Honest question, from someone who uses both.
So yeah, on Android you can do a little more with home screen customisation. It used to be a lot more — I can't believe it took Apple how many years to figure out how to place an icon to the right of or below an open space? It's closer now, they both steal from each other, but you can do a lot more. My Android phone is partly a cosplay prop: it's a real-life NookPhone, from Animal Crossing. My icons are huge, they're the ones from the game, but they open real apps, and they're in a 3x3 grid. Definitely can't do that on iOS. But I don't need that on my daily driver. And many people say — and I'm inclined to agree — that when an app is on both, it's better on iOS due to fewer hardware configurations to support.
Also, we have Delta, the emulator that backs everything up to, ironically, Google Drive. So I can show you this app on my iPhone. I can also AirDrop you any game I have. Long press, share, AirDrop, find your iPhone, you open it with the same app, you got it now. Super easy. But I can also uninstall the app, it removes all the files and whatnot. I can go into Files, double check all my games are gone. Saves, all of it. Then I reinstall it. Nothing... but as soon as I sign into Google Drive, it re-downloads everything. I just wish the emulator ran on the Mac, too — I'd have cross-device sync. Also, the emulator is Nintendo only, no PlayStation, no Sega, nothing like that.
And then the privacy issue. I think it's wild so few people care about their private information being sold. Then again, Facebook, TikTok, and others are huge. So I might be the outlier caring about that. But I still do.
And all those things were "taken" because they followed apple's lead who took all those things first. Losing sideload capability is yet another fallow the leader act they're doing to be like apple.
As for more expensive, disagree there. That's only the case if you go with high end sansung phones, but you can get android phones for much cheaper with still decent hardware, and it (currently) can do all the things apple does. You cant buy a cheaper apple 17 then the 2 models they give you. Also the hardware differences are so minor between Samsung and Apple, its laughable to call one "better" so your ppst really comes off like a fanboy talking about something you dont understand.
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Actually, the first phone to do a lot of things was actually an Android — good and bad! The first fingerprint reader, I think may have been the Motorola Bionic? But it was like an electric razor, it had these things you roll your finger across. It was weird. Not like what we have now. Likewise, I'm pretty sure an Android phone was the first one to pull the headphone jack. It was just because Apple did it right when they brought out the AirPods that people cried foul (rightly so). Memory card? Apple never supported them (they're too slow), and Android phones famously didn't support them... I think the Nexus phones? Pixel too. I don't think any Google-branded phone had a memory card slot.
More expensive does include the foldables, and you can't say they don't count because they exist. I wouldn't count the diamond-crusted Android phones, those are super limited edition. But anyone can go buy a fold or a flip, so they have to be considered. Right now the top iPhone costs $2000 in the US. It's a 2TB iPhone 17 Pro Max. Android gets higher, albeit with folds, but it does get higher, and the performance isn't any better.
As far as Samsung specifically: the chip in the Galaxy S25 is faster than the one in the iPhone 16 Pro/Max, but it also loses more power when it throttles for getting too hot. That really only means anything in high-end gaming, though. For day-to-day usage the Samsung will clock higher. It's only going to get 3-4 years of support though, if that, and they still sell your private information. You can't even use Samsung Health without agreeing to let them sell your private medical data (whatever you put in it). So no, it can't do everything an iPhone can do. It can't keep your medical information private, which is enshrined in law in many countries, but if you agree to let them sell it, that goes out the window. Why would you give that up when you don't have to?
- Cost. You can get performant brand new phones for $200 that will last you 2+ years
- OS-wide adblock. I cannot comprehend how iOS users live with out it. I see my GF using her phone and every other scroll of something is an ad.
- Some other sailing-of-the-seas things that I'm not comfortable posting online about, but it saves me a lot of money on subscriptions from big corporations.
- You got me there. I can probably get a gently used iPhone from a generation or two back and maybe get down to $300, but I dunno about $200. You're 100% right on that one, and more to the point, mid-range Android isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. One of the biggest secrets in mobile is that performance has plateaued.
- You can only block ads OS-wide on Android if you're rooted. AdAway (and I suppose others like it) edit the HOSTS file which trumps DNS. DNS is what iPhone users use, and what unrooted Android users use. The problem with DNS isn't that it doesn't work — it does — it's that bad actors can tunnel around it. So Google, great example, the app I mean, has its own DNS. They have various reasons but what it boils down to is "we can tunnel around your ad blocker." They definitely do this on iOS. They probably do it on Android. But editing HOSTS can beat that. And no, I don't get ads on YouTube, either — but I do not use the app. You can, if you're on Android and you're rooted and you have a good HOSTS file. I can block YouTube ads with Safari and uBlock Origin (yeah, we got it now) but it's just DNS. I will concede that the best way to browse on a phone is Firefox for Android with uBlock Origin. Us iPhone users wish we had that. We don't. But we can get close. Really, the only ads I see are in the App Store. It's become a cesspool of shit.
- I don't sail on my phone. I've tried, a few things don't work. I have computers for that. I have a good/decent emulator that works good. As far as movies, music, shows, audiobooks, I have a Plex server and my iPhone has no problem accessing that. I bet you could use an Android phone as a Plex server though. Not that I'd want to. But you probably could. Maybe. Like with root? I dunno. But anything on my iPhone (not counting Plex stuff), I can get on your Android phone. And vice-versa. I mean, not to use your Android phone as an example, that's kinda hostile, I mean if I have an iPhone in one hand and an Android phone in the other, I got no problem getting stuff from one to the other. Either way. Best if they're on the same WiFi, but I can make one a hotspot in a pinch.
They took your headphone jack.
Are we talking the nebulous They, the royal They, or do you mean "Android took your headphone jack?" Because uhh,
Delusional apple fanboy.
I don't need a my phone to be a 'flagship'. I am not an influencer. I also wonder what loads are you running on a phone that you meet performance issues.
You can get an android with microSD and 3.5mm jack for 250€.
You can still run all the software you want. Adblockers, torrent clients, emulators, even... browsers! There will still be new android phones that won't suffer those limitations. They will also be cheaper than iphones.
Don't get me wrong android is in a bad trajectory, it's true that's Google has been enshitificating as much as it can get away with. It's still light years ahead of iOS.
If anybody cares for privacy or control of their devices, saving Android, even in alternative versions/vendors, is a much more viable option than switching to iPhone.
this seems to be going the shittitest direction it could...fuck Google
ps: loving the apple simps coming out to claim iPhones aren't perfect just because you can't "sideload" lool
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loving the apple simps coming out to claim iPhones aren't perfect just because you can't "sideload" lool
Confused ape noises
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Thankfully I have root, I'll just simply hook into it runtime via Xposed to bypass this nonsense.
Seriously anyone who doesn't have root on their Android devices these days and age, well may Google have mercy on you lol
Recent AOSP repo added lines of code to Package Installer to handle enforcing restricting whether Package Installer installs an APK file or not based on dev signatures, as well as denying installation if internet isn't available so it can't contact Google's servers for dev signature verification.
So this is enforced by Package Installer, which is already how Google enforces their ridiculous minimal SDK version requirement for installing APK packages, as well as for blocking app update with an APK package with mismatched signature or blocking downgrading an existing app with an APK package, which I already have bypassed via Xposed this way.
Besides, rooting gives YOU total control over your own device like when you have sudo on Linux, even if Google tries some new BS there will be a way to counter it when you have root
I used to root every phone, but by 2025 I've given up. Hard to unlock bootloaders, random apps (especially banking) thinking you will get hacked and stops working, the entire community around rooting and mods is like 10% of what it used to me, hardly any modern phone still gets custom roms, etc.. Recently saw some statistic about custom roms - on average, around 50 phones 5-8 years ago had support for custom roms. By 2025, that number has fallen to 4.
Android is not what it used to be
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You said it like banking apps will be happy to work with a Linux phone lol, the banks always have their interests inherently conflict with user control anyway. And rooting and getting a custom ROM (one which exists or otherwise) are two completely different things that have nothing to do with each other, and you shouldn't support manufecturers who choose to make it difficult to unlock bootloader anyway.
By 2025, rooting still empowers you to make your own Android device however you like it to be.
Also not many people care about custom ROM these days because Android stock ROM got much better in average, so there's much less a need for creating a brand new ROM just to get basic features. Why making a brand new ROM instead of modding the pretty good one you already have now. And root empowered ROM modding tools that are developed as Magisk module or Xposed modules still have a pretty big community, there's a long list of pretty big repos with hundreds of modules each, and with how sophisticated Magisk and Lsposed have evolved it's easier than ever to write your own mods
XDA is dead, and you just described one of the symptoms of a forum being dead.
That said there are still a small amount of people posting detailed posts for rooting Xperia phones, for how to flash OS updates with unlocked bootloader without losing your user data, for how to bypass carrier restrictions to get international model to work with the 5G bands in the US via build.conf edit and baseband flashing, etc. There are perks of a community being small and niche, and I guess not everyone is brained washed by Samsung's propaganda they use to justify permanently locked bootloader on their phones lol
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He's not wrong in a way. If ADB is overwhelmingly used and "undesirable" apps (vanced and "streaming apps") don't see any drop in support or usage, or if governments see a massive number using this to fly under the surveillance radar, they'll restrict ADB too...
Likely they'll pull what Meta did and make everyone who wants to enable "developer mode" will actually need to prove they are indeed, a developer.
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I was about to switch to android but ended up with another iPhone because of Google killing the only reasons to use android.
I like my air but I’m still waiting for what I really want. A viable Linux phone.
Google is building a walled garden, so I went with this other walled garden instead.
You people have zero logical consistency and I've seen so many such comments on reddit. I want to pick your brain and figure out how you can roll over THAT easily for corpos.
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Because one walled garden does not exist yet.
Because it's possible to get around the proposed walled garden.
Because there are android manufacturers that ship phones that are not going to be affected by this.
But no lets just promote the whole iOS and Android are 100% the same (not Apple and Google, those are the same) and give up on fighting those changes.
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I’m all for supporting an alternative, however it’s done.
But between the google walled garden and the apple one, I slightly prefer the apple one for having marginally better privacy.
Though as a dev with dev accounts for both, I already can run whatever the hell I want on my own devices, so i admit to having no real skin in that game.
Apple's walled garden vs Google's future wall garden is a false dilemma.
I was looking at a pixel fold running grapheneOS. Google is making changes that I dislike and realistically cannot avoid so why jump ship from my existing walled garden into one that’s just now starting to from, with even worse privacy and a business model totally dependent on violating as much of your privacy as possible?
The future of graphene and other third party roms is uncertain but I needed to upgrade my phone. My screen was cracked but usable but once I remove it to replace the battery I won’t be able to reinstall the single piece of glass and by that point I’m halfway to a new phone anyway.
For now, I’m okay with my air, but I know me and Apple are on not going to be together long term. I’m pulling off the cloud and breaking up dependancies one by one so, but as far as phones go, there isn’t a viable option quite yet. It’s definitely coming but it’s not here yet.
We need to break free from both Apple AND Google. Borrowing from Google to make another rom but still being dependent on them to keep your project alive and supported is no longer an option. We need a clean break away from them.
I can foresee a phone-like pocket computer running Linux that doesn’t have cellular capabilities at all. American cell phone companies weren’t crazy about supporting windows phone a many even blocked them from joining their networks. We are starting to see the same shit with Linux phones now. But most people don’t need data everywhere. There’s wifi where people like me actually use it. And so I can see a market for a voip service for phones that lets you use them like mobile landlines. For simple texts, a network of Lora packet radios would suffice and reticulum seems to be up the task of serving that need.
Costs are increasing and our dependance on these devices are changing so not every problem we have with Linux phones will need to be solved by the time that such devices get off the ground. We have options for tomorrow.
But today, the iPhone air was fine for me.
A viable Linux phone.
I am eyeing the Jolla C2. Gonna use GrapheneOS for as long as possible, but if all else fails I will use the shittiest Linux phone over this Google/Apple nightmare.
Sensitive content
Shizuku?
EDIT: I didn't notice it was mentioned already. XDD
Can someone "redpilled by corporate" explain me how this policy actually increase security?
It's trivial for a malware developer to pay $25 with a stolen card and a stolen id
Look at the "verified" bots on xitter, they didn't solve the bots problem, rather just monetized it
You don’t think Google have better tech than banks?
Oh boy. You have no idea how old and bad the underlying tech that banks work on is.
Google is doing this to comply with EU regulations supposed to increase security. Now imagine that Google was pushing back against this instead of complying. As per usual, Lemmy would be up in arms against Google for failing to protect people's data and not complying with our laws and culture. You'd be downvoted to oblivion for asked that question and called a corporate bootlicker.
I think these rules come from German legal culture, which traditionally has a strong need to control information exchange and processing.
I'm sure the EU is not the only jurisdiction demanding this sort of thing, but I doubt Singapore has the pull needed to get Google to move.
Brussels effect. Imagine Google were to still allow unverified apps in the US. Most devs would still opt for verification so as not to lose the EU market. The proportion of malware is probably going to be higher among the few remaining unverified apps. Sooner or later, some US scam victims would sue Google for failing to protect them like it protects Europeans. Hard to refute.
The vast majority of malware isn't delivered via play store because of the existing measures and protections they have. Same reason you see very little app-store-based malware on iOS. DISCLAIMER: YES MALWARE EXISTS ON APPLE HARDWARE PLEASE DON'T SHOUT AT ME. Talking specifically about anything installed via first party stores on both platforms.
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website and infect their phones. The least controllable and most pervasive factor here is the intelligence and knowledge of the user which cannot be controlled for by Google. So by eliminating the ability to exploit this entirely, it will eliminate that specific vector.
It's a sledgehammer solution that naturally comes with many downsides like disrupting intelligent and knowledgeable users that just want to hack around with FOSS and such.
Google is relying on It being too expensive for malware creators to have to guide each individual user through adb installation and usage process just to get access to their phone. Most scammers only do that level of interaction to extract actual cash/gift cards from the target.
I am personally and directly affected by their decision in many negative ways, but I'm not so dense as to not understand why they're doing it.
/corpodronespeak
EDIT: bots help Xitter maintain inflated usage figures which justify people's jobs, share prices, etc. Bots are a feature, not a bug.
yes, of course malware is distributed via apk.
But what's the difference between:
- malware that is signed anonymously and then, when its signature is identified, it's removed via play protect
- malware that is signed with a stolen identity and then, when its signature is identified, it's removed via play protect
?
Isn't exactly the same stuff? Or there's someone that is actually thinking that criminals will use their real ID card for the verification?
Does not change anything for malware distribution, except bother them for a dozen minutes meanwhile they "verify" their stolen ID
Because it can be invalidated. That's the difference.
It's absolutely not foolproof, but nothing is. Most actions corps take for this stuff only slows down the spread. Hackers and bad actors innovate way faster than companies can keep up with. So companies cast a wide net with their solutions. And the cycle continues.
with the new system, you must go online to check if the license for that app is still valid or revoked. But the current system works almost the same: if there's an internet connection play protect checks the signature against an online malware db and prevents installation.
From a couple years ago, google has the power to remotely install/uninstall any apk on your phone without your consent
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website
No they don't. Most people don't even know what an apk even is.
Most people don't know what a bootloader is. They still turn their devices on and off every day.
This whole conversation is about adding obstacles to prevent non technical users from doing things they don't fully understand.
Yes you're right. If they knew, it would likely come with the knowledge that, if someone asks you to do this, you're probably being scammed.
That's what makes them most vulnerable to these kinds of scams.
It's not about stopping malware; it's about being able to act on malware.
Making a new account with a new phone number and new credit card is a minor barrier to entry.
That said, it's a cool story, but I think they're looking to stop vanced style patching.
Man, I miss my jailbroken iPhone 5.
It was like having your cake and eating it, and somehow its stock (much less tweaked) UI is less clunky than whatever TF Apple has done to my discount 16. Maybe it’s because I was using Android in between, but still…
Google will become the exact same as apple, third party stores are technically "allowed", but requires Google's official stamp (digital signature), it's same with Apple. Its probably legal since Apple is already like this.
A corporation like Epic Games will be left alone since they can afford lawyers. An open source volunteer dev making a Youtube alternative client will get their certificates revoked under dubious "ToS Violation" claims and they won't have money to sue.
dug my pinephone out of a drawer yesterday and gave it a whirl. still pretty rough unfortunately even after updating postmarket os.
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
tbh part of the rough experience for me may be down to the hardware. the ubports version of the pinephone i have is quite low power. 2GB memory and a little ARM Cortex-A53
tis sluggish
The main issue will be application support.
Linux running on the desktop in 2025 is helped immensely by everything being web based. So long as you have a browser you are fine for a lot of general computing.
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
Getting a banking app, or Uber or Facebook Messenger to work on a Linux phone is going to be a massive pain in the ass (ignoring the rest of the OS which is definitely not even close to useable for the general public).
I would love a Linux phone but we are so far away.
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
That's true, but for everything non-free, they always end up having a perfectly working web app that will accept my money.
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
I thought you could do that on Android?
Plain AOSP is already pretty brutal. An alternate OS is practically a non-starter. Phones aren't just web browsers and SMS.
- Tap-to-pay
- Including transit fares
- Bank apps
- RCS messaging
- MFA and security apps
- Work profiles
- Streaming media that's not 480p
Not to mention that the camera is going to suuuuuuuuck.
Forking or improving AOSP is more viable but none of the more mainstream ROMs want to piss off Google. That's why most LineageOS forums forbid talking about defeating Play Integrity.
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On a mobile device? It's more likely that only OSS drivers work and the binary blob driver only worked with a pre-Pandemic aged kernel. Or it needed a very specific userspace library that doesn't work with a minimal libc.
"Free software enough" usually means "has a snowball's chance of actually working".
So now 3rd party app stores need an ADB loopback to work around that.
Not hard to do, but uselessly annoying.
I believe F-Droid signs the packages it distributes so that creates a painful choke point. Revoke F-Droid's key and it will break all of F-Droid instantaneously. The only exception for F-Droid's signing is if the build is reproducible, which is a high bar for a lot of projects, and then F-Droid will use the upstream signature.
Also, they're trying to close the ADB loophole.
Ok, fuck this crap. This was the main reason to prefer Android over iOS. Going to start trying out some of the FOSS Android forks
Another example of Embrace, extend, and extinguish
I'm just skimming through the license on my phone and they include LGPL, apache, BSD, Mozilla public license, eclipse public license, w3c, MIT, apple, and GNu.
IANAPOLL (The extra POL is for patent or licensing) so I don't know the intricacies of each type.
But there are a lot.
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Honestly at this point they actually likely need to be EVEN MORE strict to deal with how bad the app store is and how many scam apps are floating around.
My grand father has been given like 30 scam apks to install via email that we're just crypto ransomware basically, and he's had to reformat his phone at least 10 times this year from installing scam shit from the playstore it self too.
Both the playstore AND scammers are target android like crazy
There's basically no way to crack down on it short of what they are doing and frankly it's still not enough.
Anyone who thinks this is just Google being evil is massive fucking out of touch with the reality of what elderly and less it savvy people have to deal with. It fucking SUCKS.
And I fucking hate these changes too, but even I cant say it's enough. There's too many fucking shit bag assholes ruining all the good things.
They also already have installation from external sources turned on by default.
Why the hell are we babying people who turn it off? They read the warning, they know the risks.
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Sorry for the downvote, but I see this take repeated here on Lemmy so often and it just makes no sense. This will not kill the FOSS app "ecosystem". Nothing whatsoever changes for FOSS ROMs like LineageOS or GrapheneOS. And as long as there are FOSS operating systems, apps will be developed for them. If anything, this could drive mainstream adoption of free/libre Android forward, re-invigorating the scene through public outcry.
And to the people who propose fully jumping ship from Android to "Linux phones" because of Google's recent changes, you would only make the app support matter worse. As someone who daily drives both a phone with LineageOS and one with postmarketOS (mainline-ish Linux), mobile app support is endlessly worse on Linux than the fallout from Google's developer registration could ever be. That is not to say that Linux phones will not eventually get to a point of reasonable maturity, but it is way too early and frankly utterly irrational to bury AOSP Android or needlessly hate on it.
Normal people aren’t flashing custom ROMs. The audience for some FOSS software will shrink by several orders of magnitude.
But the pain really kicks in when your government/bank/streaming apps require attestation of a signed boot chain and Google Play services running.
So, will an app like this
codeberg.org/muntashir/AppMana…
which uses (w)adb, be able to install apk as I currently do?
Or will they also fuck this up ?
They won't fuck this up YET. If AppManager doesn't currently use ADB to install APKs, it can be made to. So can any F-Droid or Aurora Store client.
However, I'd say that the odds that Google will stop at this certificate demand and will not eventually try to paywall ADB somehow are currently 0% in my estimation.
It's high time someone created an independent fork of Android. Very soon, custom ROMs won't be enough.
I didn't read the terms but I think this is against Google terms of services, so sure you can patch this out but as a company you would suffer legal actions or would be forced to remove Google services from your devices.
Samsung will just ask Samsung Store devs to be registered
Literally TODAY someone I know installed an application called "PDF viewer for android" that had a green adobe icon and it started wrecking absolute havoc on their phone with pop ads and redirects to scam support sites.
The AppStore is full of this shit.
I smell revival of jailbreak days 😁
And maybe a peak of smuggling china android phones running chinaDroid with crapChecks
Mastodon: Our ideas about Packs
Our ideas about Packs
Sharing our thoughts and plans behind sharing collections of accounts in the Fediverse.Mastodon Blog
Seems like a good idea, although a simple, configurable algorithm would also be nice.
You select one or several topics, and it shows you popular posts in that category.
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I guess in a way that's what it offers, just that instead of an algorithm it's human curated. Mastodon is a lot about boosts, so following someone doesn't mean just following them, but also being subjected to whatever they boost (unless you silence their boosts of course). So if you're interested in pottery and you follow a pottery starter pack, chances are that feed will end up a curated channel of pottery content.
The great thing is that it has quality control and cannot be abused the same way algorithmic feeds always end up being. The funky thing is, of course, that you also end up being exposed to everything else those people are interested in. But I think that's part of what makes Mastodon feels so nice.
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Congratulations, you've been included in the "Assholes" pack.
If you wish to be removed from the pack, you must write a letter explaining why we should remove you and mail it to the address listed below with an attached blood sample in a crystal vial packaged in a refrigerated container with proper padding fit for shipping.
Mastodon Inc,
228 East 45th Street Suite 9E
New York, New York 10017
::: spoiler Spoiler
Disclaimer: this is a joke not intended to convey anything.
:::
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Bluesky pioneered a brilliant solution to this “empty feed problem” in 2024, with the introduction of “Starter Packs”, a feature that allows users to curate and share their own collections of recommended accounts.
Bluesky pioneered, eh? I distinctly remember using a feature called "circles" on Google+ back in 2011. It allowed people to create arbitrary "circles" of people, share them and have others bulk-follow/unfollow the people from a circle. It worked incredibly well and Google+ became a lively social network even with its small userbase at the time.
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I really don't understand the point of packs when Mastodon has hashtag follows. Mastodon is already winning in terms of discovery here and in fact I still don't use Bluesky because its impossible to discover content there.
On Bluesky you get a pack of people but in linear timelines the power spammers just take over and then you have to do all that personal curation anyway but it's often even a worse starting point than just blank slate. With hashtag following I just subscribe to #fediverse and discover new content and creators organically.
Instead I'd like to see Mastodon commit more to organic discovery rather than consolidation of power users by expanding post classification system like using AI classification that attaches topic hashtags to posts etc to help users discover content they actually want to see not follow personalities.
Re: Mastodon: Our ideas about Packs
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Trump’s plan for Gaza rewards Israel’s genocide and punishes its victims
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SOLVED: Ethernet stopped working hours after installation. Wifi works OK.
Another Windows migrant here. I can’t get my ethernet to work but wifi works OK. I am almost certain that when I installed Debian Trixie with KDE Plasma a few weeks ago, ethernet worked but it stopped a day or so later. Info Centre reports:
2: enp0s25: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state DOWN group default qlen 1000
link/ether 54:ee:75:52:01:23 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
altname enx54ee75520123
3: enx0050b6c0f7f3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state UP group default qlen 1000
link/ether 00:50:b6:c0:f7:f3 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
inet 192.168.1.92/24 brd 192.168.1.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute enx0050b6c0f7f3
valid_lft 3419sec preferred_lft 2969sec
inet6 fe80::8437:d694:3204:62ff/64 scope link
valid_lft forever preferred_lft foreverI deleted the wired connection in System Settings | Wi-Fi & Networking and it was recreated which probably suggests the ethernet connection is detected even if the fields there are all blank. Also, the internet traffic plasmoid shows enx0050b6c0f7f3 with around 1/5 of the cumulative traffic of wifi.
I tried the obvious things, just in case. I disabled the firewall, restarted the router, deleted the wired connection, played with settings in Wi-Fi & Networking and tried dhcpcd.
$ sudo dhcpcd
main: control_open: Connection refused
dhcpcd-10.1.0 starting
dev: loaded udev
DUID 00:01:00:01:30:54:2e:d5:00:50:b6:c0:f7:f3
wlp4s0: connected to Access Point: glocal
enp0s25: waiting for carrier
enx0050b6c0f7f3: IAID b6:c0:f7:f3
wlp4s0: IAID 86:9b:42:5e
enx0050b6c0f7f3: soliciting an IPv6 router
wlp4s0: soliciting an IPv6 router
wlp4s0: rebinding lease of 192.168.1.122
wlp4s0: probing address 192.168.1.122/24
enx0050b6c0f7f3: rebinding lease of 192.168.1.216
enx0050b6c0f7f3: leased 192.168.1.216 for 3600 seconds
enx0050b6c0f7f3: adding route to 192.168.1.0/24
enx0050b6c0f7f3: adding default route via 192.168.1.254and
sudo systemctl status NetworkManager.service returns●NetworkManager.service - Network Manager
Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service;enabled; preset: enabled)
Active:active (running)since Sun 2025-10-12 23:59:31 BST; 47min ago
Invocation: a3faea14d3dc48e29a2e2d27750ca082
Docs: man:NetworkManager(8)
Main PID: 98676 (NetworkManager)
Tasks: 4 (limit: 9149)
Memory: 6.3M (peak: 7.1M)
CPU: 2.457s
CGroup: /system.slice/NetworkManager.service
└─98676 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --no-daemon
Oct 13 00:03:10 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310190.8454] dhcp4 (wlp4s0): activation: beginning transaction (timeout in 45 seconds)
Oct 13 00:03:10 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310190.8623] dhcp4 (wlp4s0): state changed new lease, address=192.168.1.85, acd pending
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.0217] dhcp4 (wlp4s0): state changed new lease, address=192.168.1.85
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.0237] policy: set 'glocal' (wlp4s0) as default for IPv4 routing and DNS
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.0440] device (wlp4s0): state change: ip-config -> ip-check (reason 'none', managed-type: 'full')
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.0839] device (wlp4s0): state change: ip-check -> secondaries (reason 'none', managed-type: 'full')
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.0841] device (wlp4s0): state change: secondaries -> activated (reason 'none', managed-type: 'full')
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.0855] device (wlp4s0): Activation: successful, device activated.
Oct 13 00:03:11 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760310191.1033] audit: op="statistics" interface="wlp4s0" ifindex=4 args="2000" pid=1511 uid=1000 result="succe>
Oct 13 00:33:10 tpkde NetworkManager[98676]: <info> [1760311990.8671] dhcp4 (wlp4s0): state changed new lease, address=192.168.1.85Not sure if this is relevant, but DCHP is handled by pi.hole on a Raspberry Pi. This has been working serving multiple devices for a long time without issues. Also, this is temporarily a dual boot Windows/Linux setup. When I log out and into Windows, everything works as ever.
After several days trying, I ran out of ideas. Can someone help please.
EDIT: SOLVED! In case it helps others, reading wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager closely, I ran nmcli device which showed that specific ethernet interface as 'unmanaged'. I am not sure why. Then, I followed the instructions below:
If you want NetworkManager to handle interfaces that are enabled in/etc/network/interfaces:Set
managed=truein a drop-in file in/etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf.d/or directly in/etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf.
Debian documentation could be more accessible, but it is invaluable. Thanks all for your help.
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If you are dual booting make sure that windows fast boot is disabled.
Fast boot is a bastardized version of hibernation which can keep hardware "in use" by windows if any other OS tries to use the hardware.
One of the common issues is ethernet & wifi not working or not connecting.
It's not a true hibernation state hence my statement "Fast boot is a bastardized version of hibernation".
It's a hybrid sleep/hibernate system that causes more problems than it should.
Not all hardware works with it, it causes problems with updates and some software does not play nicely with it.
I know of a number of business IT departments that disable it company wide as it is a considerable source of problems.
sudo systemctl restart NetworkManager or just do a reboot? If it stays "loaded" instead of "running" after, check the logs with journalctl -xeu NetworkManager (pgup and pgdown to scroll)
Actually, it says:
Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service;enabled; preset: enabled)
Active:active](Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/](Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service;enabled; preset: enabled) And wifi works OK.
journalctl -xeu NetworkManager | grep enx0 gives:
Oct 14 12:43:11 tpkde NetworkManager[979]: <info> [1760442191.5289] device (enx0050b6c0f7f3): carrier: link connected
Oct 14 12:44:22 tpkde NetworkManager[9415]: <info> [1760442262.6582] ifupdown: guessed connection type (enx0050b6c0f7f3) = 802-3-ethernet
Oct 14 12:44:22 tpkde NetworkManager[9415]: <info> [1760442262.6670] device (enx0050b6c0f7f3): carrier: link connected
Oct 14 12:44:22 tpkde NetworkManager[9415]: <info> [1760442262.6677] manager: (enx0050b6c0f7f3): new Ethernet device (/org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/Devices/3)It is a mystery why ethernet works as expected in a live USB session, but it doesn't in the installed setup even though it is detected and there is no error message.
enx0 is your wifi, nothing wrong there. Look for enp0 instead, that's your ethernet.
Grepping for the interface may not be what you need to do, if NetworkManager is not bringing your ethernet up due to a different issue, so you'll want to reboot and look at the logs again starting from the latest restart (it'll mark that with a date/time stamp in the logs).
Boot into a live usb. They're great for debugging stuff like this and giving you some clues.
If it works, it's not a hardware or windows issue. If it doesn't, it might be.
Good idea. With the live USB my ethernet works fine right from the start. So, it's not hardware or windows. The one difference I see between the live USB and my current setup is that in the live USB session sudo systemctl status NetworkManager.servicereturns also the line below which is missing when I execute the command in my actual setup:
audit: op="statistics" interface="enx0050b6cOf7f3" if index=3 args="2000" pid= 1957 uid=1000 result="success"
But Info Center in KDE Plasma lists "enx0050b6cOf7f3" as in my original post.
So, ethernet hardware functions, it works as expected with live USB and Windows. In the debian setup it is detected with an inet address, but NetworkManager ignores it.
DHCP also works -- my wifi connection in this debian setup works, as do several devices connected to wifi and ethernet.
Typically my debugging process goes like this :
- error message? Search for it online with the most unique keyword that aren't machine specific
- solutions provided?
- solution understood? try it then loop back, writing notes in own wiki
- solution not understood? bookmark it then try understood solutions first, if not try and loop back
- no error message?
- find where the error message is!
- what actually produce the error from the top of the stack? end-user software? service? kernel? hardware? where do they put logs?
- if logs exist and verbosity is not sufficient, increase verbosity and reproduce the problem
- if no verbose enough error message can be obtained, repeat the situation in various conditions
- does any condition make it work?
- search on the difference between the working and non-working condition
- backtrack one layer up the stack, e.g. if end-user software does not change, try service, etc
- does this one provide logs?
So... it's basically always the same, namely try the lazy way (error log search) and if that's not enough, try further down the stack or more unknown BUT always get information out the try.
TL;DR: I have no idea but if another new machine (e.g. phone) can connect then DHCP works. FWIW NetworkManager logs are in journalctl -u NetworkManager and you can manually add/remove Ethernet connections. I'd physically unplug then plug back the cable with WiFi disabled.
Also FWIW if I wouldn't get an answer within few hours and I knew for a fact that with a fresh install it worked, I'd re-install.
It's perfectly fine to do the process again as it insures your files are safe (either working backup or separate disks, or ideally both) and you know what software is relevant for you, that your configuration files are well known, etc.
Installing a distribution should be a painless and quick process.
Might as well reinstall at this point and for future reference. You shouldn't just delete your network connection and firewall and throw stuff at the wall to fix it. A lot of this stuff is set up by a script during install and it only runs once so if you break it, you are going to need much deeper knowledge to fix it without a reinstall. You likely made new problems which makes finding your actual issue nearly impossible now. If you have a single issue it's easier to find. If you have two issues there is no way to know if anything you did actually fixed it unless you get lucky and fix both issues at once.
This sounds obvious but I recently didn't realize that you had to click on the network connections and actually click, connect, to get it to connect on Ethernet in my distro. This is a quirk that I didn't realize that Linux had. Windows just automatically connects to Ethernet, Linux probably doesn't do this because it's a security risk.
This seems like the type of issue that chatGPT could really help with. With a few console commands you could verify that the system is seeing the network adapter and is communicating with it properly and try to list the networks directly, giving you a better clue as to where the chain is broken.
Either way might as well reinstall at this point.
North Carolina Republicans Plan to Redraw Congressional Map to Add a Seat
The Trump administration has pushed Republican leaders to redraw House district maps before the midterm elections next year. His party already holds 10 of North Carolina’s 14 congressional seats.
Makes it really critical for Democratic-leaning stated to counter the national gerrymandering effort by Republicans, both by passing Prop. 50 in California and launching similar measures in other states
EU to curb Russian diplomats’ travel as suspected spy attacks mount
cross-posted from: lemmy.sdf.org/post/43656968
ArchivedEU governments have agreed to limit the travel of Russian diplomats within the bloc, in response to a surge in sabotage attempts that intelligence agencies say are often led by spies operating under diplomatic cover.
Moscow-sponsored intelligence operatives have been blamed for escalating provocations against Nato states — from arson and cyber attacks to infrastructure sabotage and drone incursions — in what EU security services call a co-ordinated campaign to destabilise Kyiv’s European allies.
The proposed rules will force Russian diplomats posted in EU capitals to inform other governments of their travel plans before crossing beyond the border of their host country.
The initiative, championed by the Czech Republic, is part of a fresh set of sanctions being drawn up by Brussels in response to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. The package requires unanimous support to be adopted. Hungary, the last country opposed to the measure, has dropped its veto, two people briefed on the negotiations said.
[...]
EU intelligence agencies say that Russian spies, posing as diplomats, often run assets or operations beyond their host countries, in order to better elude counter-espionage surveillance.
“They are posted to one place — but work in another,” said a senior EU diplomat, citing intelligence reports. “The host country intelligence services know what they are up to but, if they cross the border, it can be harder for that country to keep tabs on them.”
[...]
’’There is no ‘Schengen for Russia,’ so it makes no sense that a Russian diplomat accredited in Spain can come to Prague whenever he likes,’’ he told the FT. ‘‘We should apply strict reciprocity to the issuance of short-stay, diplomatic visas under the Vienna Convention.”
In 2014 the Czech Republic suffered one of Russia’s worst sabotage attacks on EU soil when explosions at an ammunition warehouse in Vrbětice killed two people. Prague attributed the attack to agents from Russia’s foreign intelligence agency GRU.
EU to curb Russian diplomats’ travel as suspected spy attacks mount
Intelligence agencies say sabotage operations are often led by spies posing as diplomatsHenry Foy (Financial Times)
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I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
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Herzlians repeatedly oversimplify the Orthodox Jewish opposition to Zionism as a mere question of timing: if the Moshiach arrived, then Orthodox Jews would support Zionism. In reality, the occupation violates numerous Judaic rules: its very founding in 1948 involved the theft of land as well as the slaughter of innocents.
A few weeks ago I was rereading Isaiah, and while I am well aware that it could not possibly have been referring to events in the distant future, it could hardly be more relevant today. Isaiah 3:
G-d enters the courtroom.
He takes his place at the bench to judge his people.
G-d calls for order in the court,
hauls the leaders of his people into the dock:
“You’ve played havoc with this country.
Your houses are stuffed with what you’ve stolen from the poor.
What is this anyway? Stomping on my people,
grinding the faces of the poor into the dirt?”
Doom to you who buy up all the houses
and grab all the land for yourselves—
Evicting the old owners,
posting no trespassing signs,
Taking over the country,
leaving everyone homeless and landless.
I overheard G-d-of-the-Angel-Armies say:
“Those mighty houses will end up empty.
Those extravagant estates will be deserted.
A ten-acre vineyard will produce a pint of wine,
a fifty-pound sack of seed, a quart of grain.”
(Emphasis added.)
Isaiah 3 | MSG Bible | YouVersion
Jerusalem on Its Last Legs -7The Master, God-of-the-Angel-Armies,is emptying Jerusalem and JudahOf all the basic necessities,plain bread and water to begin with.He’s withdrawing police and protYouVersion | The Bible App | Bible.com
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Climate Summit 2025 | United Nations
Climate Summit 2025 | United Nations
24 September 2025: To accelerate momentum, the UN Secretary-General will host a Special High-Level Event on Climate Action on 24 September 2025, as a platform for leaders to present their new national climate plans.United Nations
The Israeli Military Strategies the BBC Doesn’t Want You to Know About
The Israeli Military Strategies the BBC Doesn’t Want You to Know About
The Dahiya doctrine and Hannibal directive are key to making sense of Israel's actions in Gaza over the past two years, and yet the BBC hasn't mentioned them once in its coverage since 7 October 2023. Harriet Williamson reports.Novara Media
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First sentence is wrong:
Since 7 October 2023, Israel has waged a brutal war on Gaza
It was Hamas that invaded Israel on Oct 7th starting a brutal war they had no hope of winning, killing 65,000 civilians which they have admitted they are ok with dying for the publicity
Stopped after that, sounds like more left wing opinionated bullshit to me
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"Jews started this when they blah blah blah..."
- Nazis justifying the Holocaust
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People like this want you conflate "the country of Israel" with "all ethnic/religious Jewish people everywhere"
It allows them to more easily call people antisemitic when you criticize the Israeli government.
Even IF Israeli intelligence hadn't ignored reports of potential attacks, and even IF they hadn't intentionally lowered security in order to make potential attacks worse, all in order to give them and excuse to do the thing they already wanted to do, committing genocide in response is a FULL FUCKING STOP "no"
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Antisemitism refers specifically to hatred against Jews, not all Semitic people in general.
Just like antibiotics don't kill all biological life. Words have meaning.
Yeah: how come Israel now pretends that Arabs are not semitic??
& how come everybody's been accommodating that?
"Anti-semitic" originally meant anti semitic people, which included Jews & Arabs, both..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_…
And multiple other peoples, too! ( I didn't know, until now! : )
_ /\ _
I like how you casually claim Hamas held Israeli territory IN THE FRONTIER OF OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND.
FFS. The Gaza Prison Breakout is analogous to the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, a response to 75 years of ethnic cleansing and shooting children in the knees for sport, 16 years of illegal military land sea and air siege where Israel calculated the caloric input to keep Palestinians in Gaza on a "starvation plus" diet.
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I've never read about Palestinian children or moms or civilians attacking Israel in any way shape or form and yet the vast VAST VAST majority of these victims of GENOCIDE are innocent civilians that had NOTHING to do with Hamas.
I wouldn't t give a single fuck if Israel obliterated every last member of Hamas in the sort of targeted surgical strikes that an advanced military/intelligence power like Israel is capable of, but instead they chose to level Gaza and starve it's people into submission. Not even Putin's Russia have been so egregious with their targeting of innocent civilians, meanwhile Gaza has an 83% CIVILIAN CASUALTY RATE
Stop wasting time trying to convince people blatant genocide isn't genocide. Stop being a fucking genocidal Nazi.
ttbomk, hamas won't allow non-involvement:
They won't permit any social-services to be neutral, they won't permit any operating-business to be neutral, they won't tolerate neutrality.
Same as the zionists won't.
Ideology is threatened by neutrality, so they force-eradicate it, wherever it tries growing.
Leninism eradicates considered-reasoning from "education" in order to produce the ideological-population that Leninism wants,
exactly the same as the Republicans eradicate considered-reasoning from their "education", in order to *produce the ideological-population that their ideology wants.*
Ideology HATES neutrality, rabidly
The ONLY way that Palestine could possibly have been kept from this, is if decades ago the UN had displaced all the ideologues from authority in the territory, & absolutely-blocked them from from even influencing gov't, essential-services, education, etc, until 3-ish generations of people had grown-up in that considered-reasoning-and-meritocracy paradigm,
& then the ideologues-murdering-considered-reasoning-from-our-world would be retired-out from all authority
( Max Planck's ~ Science progresses funeral by funeral: as the old-guard die off, the population becomes made-of people who grew-up-with the new paradigm, & they accept it ~ is exactly this principle, simply in a different domain )
But NO ideology would tolerate that: not zionist not hamas.
So, genociding it is, then, inevitably..
Until the rampaging-rabies has overwhelmed the entire world, all religions, all political-ideologies, all food-insecurity-migrations, all supremacisms, all together, combined, & then humankind can manufacture the "apocalypse" that makes its unconscious-mind/ego feel important ( which is mostly what's really going on, during this ClimatePunctuation, tbh )
The Great Filter: unconscious-mind's ego-rabies rampaging in a manufactured ClimatePunctuation, trying to prove that ego-importance and unconscious-ignorance is "THE ONLY GOD", until .. until there's nothing left.
We're failing The Great Filter, iow, & digging our world-species's grave, with every such torquing/ignoring.
Here's another angle:
Have you noticed that the "populist" ideologues are gaining power throughout the West?
They're no-more tolerating of neutrality than hamas or the zionists are.
It isn't just the people in Palestine who got highjacked & machiavellianly pwned, it is us, too!
We're just not-yet at the final-butchery stage, yet ( wait a few more years, & look around the remains of our countries .. & see, then, what happens when right-wing ideologues, equivalents to hamas, rule our countries )
_ /\ _
ttbomk, the "fear the Jews: they are behind all evil" conspiracist-nationalists do hold such things to be true.
And they are vocal about it, so your not having heard about such things doesn't mean that such assertions are not made.
I was told, a few decades ago, that in Europe the centuries-long sequence went sorta like this:
- Jews are farmers
- conspiracist-nationalists spread fear about "Jews are taking/owning all our farmland", so therefore..
- farmland gets taken away from Jews, which means, that they have to earn a living by other means, so therefore
- they become clockmakers, lawyers, doctors, etc, which therefore
- creates leverage for conspiracists to assert that they're conspiring & taking all these skilled-work jobs, because it's their world-subjugation program..
etc..
IOW, it doesn't matter what people do: prejudice is going to claim "justification", relentlessly.
Machiavellianism is a mental-illness, or worse, a hardwiring-of-brain.
Here's some objectivity, however..
statista.com/statistics/142230…
Israel & Palestinian territories: number of fatalities & injuries caused by the Israel & Hamas war 2023| Statista
Since the terrorist organization Hamas launched its attacks on Israeli soil on October 7, 2023, around 1,200 Israelis died, and 5,431 were injured.Statista
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This whole site has strong bias and mixed facts see this link :
Bias Rating: FAR LEFT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: United Kingdom
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Organization/Foundation
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY
Also , the BBC is deliberately being targeted of foreign disinformation and influence campaigns, particularly from state-sponsored actors seeking to discredit its reporting. Not saying they are perfect, but they are discredited by the Zino- Rizzian propaganda machine.
Novara Media - Bias and Credibility - Media Bias/Fact Check
LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderate to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation.Media Bias Fact Check
that Novara Media is quite transparent about its bias.
Had never heard of this site before, that's why I checked.
has a left-wing bias
So does reality.
But some people are, perplexingly, still concerned with "being fair".
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Opposing objective bad things is not biases. Israel is the settler colonial power who been occupying Gaza and the west bank for 57 years and oppressing Palestinians for 78 years
Once Israel end occupation, i will stop criticizing Israel
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You are not discussing in good faith.
Added.
Ah I see , you edited your original comment I reacted to,, by adding a whole new context; after I had reacted. Talking about good faith. Well, whatever.
Careful with these kind of bias or fact checkers, as they're only relevant on the left/center/right axis, which is a biased framework in and of itself. A centered position, which these checkers claim to be the least biased, are absolutely dependant on the Overton window and that window is currently so far off to the right, that any slightly leftist position might seem radical or even unthinkable.
It also only makes sense, if you are some kind of hyper centrist, absolutely ignoring what "right" and "left" actually mean and then proclaim that the center is a good thing and any extreme perspective off from the center is a bad thing. That's either willfully ignorant or a right-wing perspective trying to appease to unpolitical people.
This fact checker also proclaims mixed factual reporting in their summary, but in the segment it says "Failed Fact Checks: None in the Last 5 years". This is dumb and misleading.
One can see this kind of bias by them branding "concern for climate change, and racial-social equality" as far-left perspectives, while a sane person would see these things as the fucking bare minimum. Everything less than that is de facto regressive and right-wing.
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Ofc. But you are only talking about the Left/ Right Pol. spectrum. Its the " Mixed Reporting" bit which to me is relevant.
Also, if I were to report for example about Trump from the Rep. or Right side, would you say the same? Or if I used a zionist new-soutlet. Not that I would though, it's an example.
Failed Fact ChecksNone in the Last 5 years
Overall, we rate Novara Media Far-Left Biased based on editorial positions that favor anti-capitalism and the promotion of Luxury Communism. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of poor sources and one-sided hyper-partisan perspectives. (D. Van Zandt 05/08/2022) Updated (02/21/2024)
Reason number what 20 why mbfc is terrible at being both a bias checker and fact checker.
Asylum hotel provider makes £180m profit despite claims of inedible food and rationed loo paper
Asylum hotel provider makes £180m profit despite claims of inedible food and rationed loo paper
Asylum seekers and charities tell BBC of "terrible" conditions as accommodation provider makes millions.Tarah Welsh (BBC News)
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Around 250,000 protest Dutch government's Israel policy in the Netherlands
There are also protests in Berlin (9 days ago):
reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/…
Meanwhile /r/europe deleted the post of the Berlin protest:
reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1…
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What does the "No Use" text at the end of the photo explainer paragraph refer to?
Use USA No use UK No use Canada No use France No use Japan No use Italy No use Australia No use Spain No use Belgium No use Korea No use South Africa No use Hong Kong No use New Zealand No use Turkey
Funny how the deleted Reddit post, also deleted most comments, except for these gems.
Haven't used Reddit in a while. Looks like it's becoming a complete fascist cesspool.
There still some good subreddits, avoid Europe and Worldnews though.
This one is good: reddit.com/r/anime_titties
Multiplexer
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •Gunfire to celebrate a ceasefire... Nicely shows in what crazy kind of world we are living in...
But also: Phantastic news!
A really positive start into my day for a change!
I now just hope that actually works out as planned.
affenlehrer
in reply to Multiplexer • • •I believe it's common there to celebrate with gunfire. It probably wasn't especially chosen to celebrate ceasefire with gunfire. I could be midtown though.
When I visited Jerusalem with my wife several years ago we were also standing upright in our hotel room when we suddenly heard yelling and gunfire and when we spoke to the hotel guys they told us we shouldn't worry, it was just a wedding celebration.
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Multiplexer
in reply to affenlehrer • • •That is some of the crazy part.
Guns being so common and widespread that they are routinely used in everyday civil life events without anyone bashing an eyelid.
I have the slight fear that it will take a very long time until the Middle East won't regularily erupt into violant outbursts any more...
Kami
in reply to Multiplexer • • •Bro it's a fucking war zone. Get a grip for fuck sake!
Not everyone live your comfortable life in a "first world" country.
Multiplexer
in reply to Kami • • •Wouldn't that not be just another reason to not fire weapons randomly in populated areas?
But what you are saying is basically exactly what I am trying to get at:
War has become so much normalized in the region, that people just don't know otherwise any more.
Quoting the somewhat fitting Cranberries song:
"In your head, they're still fighting".
Even while a glimmer of peace is shining across the horizon.
Kami
in reply to Multiplexer • • •NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to Multiplexer • • •Multiplexer
in reply to NoneOfUrBusiness • • •This gives me some hope. Maybe the connection to actual violence is weaker than I think.
Still a crazy form of behaviour, though. People regularily get killed by it (I just now read the mentioned Wikipedia article).
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whiwake
in reply to Multiplexer • • •like this
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Multiplexer
in reply to whiwake • • •Perhaps this time it is different...
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psx_crab
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •So it isn't even conclusive. There's no way to make sure Israel won't break the cease fire. There's only hostage trade. Hopefully there's more detail coming out soon.
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Tomtits
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •I don't see Israel adhering to this, they've violated every single one thus far
They'll probably wait until the hostages are exchanged and return to annihilation
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Viking_Hippie
in reply to Tomtits • • •Probably won't even wait that long.
While the broader population seem to genuinely consider the hostages extremely important, the decision makers in the government don't care about them except as a convenient excuse for doing what they've always wanted to do.
MTZ
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •like this
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germanichwurst
in reply to MTZ • • •like this
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Naich
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •like this
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Kami
in reply to Naich • • •like this
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Multiplexer
in reply to Kami • • •Kami
in reply to Multiplexer • • •Anyone but him, to keep it short.
I mean, I can see that some people are easily fooled by him when he speaks like an idiot, makes silly faces and tells all the possible lies he can, but yeah, he didn't do shit.
testfactor
in reply to Kami • • •If Harris has won and took the exact same actions as Trump as it relates to Israel, which doesn't seem too unlikely given the way all of Washington on both sides kowtows to Israel, would you be taking the same stance that "she didn't do anything to help bring this about?"
Look, I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but I find it unlikely people would be coming out of the woodwork to slam Harris, even if she did the exact same things.
Just because someone is a villain, it doesn't mean that literally every single thing they do is villainous. I'm not gonna stop drinking Coke, just because Donald Trump drinks Coke. And I can recognize the the US was positively involved in this ceasefire negotiation, even if I hate the guy heading the US.
Trump can still be evil, even if he's right sometimes, and even if he does the right thing sometimes. He's not a comic book character. He's a very real, human kind of evil. And just because he's not stomping on puppies every day doesn't mean he's not bad.
And if you're not willing to admit when he does a good thing, your hatred isn't founded in reality, it's founded on purest tribalism.
Kami
in reply to testfactor • • •testfactor
in reply to Kami • • •Kami
in reply to testfactor • • •frunch
in reply to Multiplexer • • •Quacksalber
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •Oh, he'll love to hear that. I, for one, find it hard to give him any credit beyond 'he was there'. Then again, Biden was so incredibly weak stopping Israel, fighting under him might have dragged on for longer.
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Tollana1234567
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •robocall
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •like this
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Berengaria_of_Navarre
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •SPRUNT
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •Celebratory gunfire aimed at the nearest Palestinian.
This is a lunch break in preparation for the next wave of attacks.
mrdown
in reply to Severus_Snape • • •