AI adoption stalls as inferencing costs confound cloud users
Enterprise AI adoption stalls as inferencing costs confound cloud customers
: Please insert another million dollars to continueDan Robinson (The Register)
Must fight temptation to buy an overpriced raspberry pi
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Anker recalls over a million power banks due to fire and burn hazards
Anker recalls over a million power banks due to fire and burn hazards
Anker has recalled its PowerCore 10000 power bank (model A1263) due to the risk of fire and burns.Steve Dent (Engadget)
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What extensions would you absolutely recommend to someone who use Firefox?
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Yep, I used Fedora Kinoite now! I originally used Fedora Silverblue, but that used GNOME + Wayland, and I dropped it cause spectacle couldn't take screenshots in a Wayland based system. I switched to Kinoite because it uses Plasma instead. I don't know if Wayland causes clipboard issues, as I never tested/got that far when trying to make Silverblue work. I just rebased cause I couldn't get ShareX (the tool I used while on Windows) to work with WINE.
I use my clipboard tool with FF and have little to no issues there. The only thing I will note is, Textractor hooks the sentences a little weirdly. None of the hooks are perfect, the best one I can find that isn't complete gibberish is a hook that simply copies the sentence twice. All the others repeat characters in a sentence like 50 times, so they're unsalvageable. Not sure if it's a browser hook thing, or a trying to force Windows apps in weird ways thing, but it's not as smooth as a process compared to native Windows 😅
At least from my research, Kinoite is Wayland. I think you can go to KDE (Plasma) settings, find the "About this System" page and it should say "Graphics Platform: Wayland". GNOME and KDE are desktop environments, X11 and Wayland are display managers (I think of them like rendering engines).Though it's true that Spectacle has issues on Wayland, apparently all screenshot apps do, due to security restrictions and slow development. But Spectacle works great on KDE because Spectacle is made by KDE, and gets special privileges when run on KDE desktop. Same with GNOME screenshot when run on GNOME desktop. Third-party screenshot tools don't get these privileges and don't work well on either (at least when using Wayland), you can read more about it here: github.com/ksnip/ksnip/issues/…
As far as Textractor goes, I haven't had any issues with text hooking, but from my experience it heavily depends on the game, and I've only tested 2 games on linux so far. But if I'm reading you correctly...are you using Firefox inside WINE?
Critical: Invalid reply from DBus: Screenshot is not allowed
Operating System: Fedora 35 Beta Desktop environment: Gnome 41.0 Windowing system: Wayland ksnip installed from official Fedora repositories, ksnip-1.9.1-1.fc35.x86_64 From About ksnip/Version: Ver...oturpe (GitHub)
Lo skipper (molto poco zen) che vi farà passare la voglia di salire in barca a vela
Lo skipper (molto poco zen) che vi farà passare la voglia di salire in barca a vela: il libro di Andrea Barbera
.Normale { margin:1.0pt; margin-top:1.0pt; margin-bottom:1.0pt; margin-left:0.0pt; margin-right:0.0pt; text-indent:0.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; font-size:10.0pt; color:Black...Monica Brancato (AgrigentoNotizie)
Saltare dal ponte di Brooklyn e morire per la scienza..., da Storia che passione
Saltare dal ponte di Brooklyn e morire per la scienza...
La tragicomica fine di Robert E. Odlum: saltò dal ponte di Brooklyn per dimostrare che non si muore in aria, morì impattando con l'acquaAlessandro Marinucci (Storia Che Passione)
For All That Is Good About Humankind, Ban Smartphones
For All That Is Good About Humankind, Ban Smartphones
Smartphones are making us unhealthy, miserable, antisocial, and less free. If we can’t yet nationalize the attention economy, maybe it’s time to abolish its primary tool — before it finishes abolishing us.jacobin.com
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Occhioverde doesn't like this.
Me who has a disability which prevents me from speaking and hearing people and renders me bedridden.
“Okay, guess I’ll die then”
For All That Is Good About Humankind, Ban Smartphones
For All That Is Good About Humankind, Ban Smartphones
Smartphones are making us unhealthy, miserable, antisocial, and less free. If we can’t yet nationalize the attention economy, maybe it’s time to abolish its primary tool — before it finishes abolishing us.jacobin.com
If one tribe is bad, the other one must automatically be the good one.
There can never be such a thing as TWO bad tribes fighting each other.
Bypass paywalls clean update issues
Although my version of Bypass hasn't been updated for over a year, it has been working fine.
But my latest attempt to read the New York Times indicates that it has been detected and/or blocked.
When I try to update it via gitflic.ru/ I can't seem to manually update it either. Firefox says the file is corrupt when I drag it into the browser or update (add) file via settings.
I'm assuming it's because it's a zip file but when I unzip the folder there are no files in there that firefox recognises for me to add (only a changelog, licence and readme).
Can someone please clarify - for me and anyone else likely to encounter similar issues in the future - what I might be doing wrong.
thank you!
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thanks for the clarification and link.
So which of the many xpi files should I be manually adding please?
I'm assuming its the one that says latest.xpi (and not the previously numbered files).
De viktigaste vänsterkanalerna på nätet är webbtidningar, organisationshemsidor och de stora sociala medierna som Facebook, X, Youtube, Instagram och TikTok. Av mindre betydelse är Bluesky, Mastodon och andra sociala medier.
Emoji problems
I can't see emojis anymore, they don't work on librewolf.
I first noticed this under a post titled something like "try telling a story using only emojis". The comments were empty.
If I open the same page in brave browser, they work as intended. I can't see emojis in apps like libreoffice either. Is there a way to get system-wide emoji support?
(I am on Fedora 42)
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I had a similar thing happen recently following a NixOS upgrade. I wonder if it's something that changed in Firefox.
In my case, the solution was to set useEmbeddedBitmaps = true
in fontconfig. Which is unlikely to be directly helpful to you on Fedora, but maybe there's an equivalent option somewhere?
Iranians out in the streets chanting “Yallah Yallah, we want a nuclear bomb” 😂😂😂
ساسان 🇮🇷 (@eghtesadnia)
Iranians out in the streets chanting “Yallah Yallah, we want a nuclear bomb” 😂😂😂Nitter
This Week in Plasma: Wayland PiP and accessibility!
This Week in Plasma: Wayland PiP and accessibility!
Welcome to a new issue of This Week in Plasma! Every week we cover the highlights of what’s happening in the world of KDE Plasma and its associated apps like Discover, System Monitor, and more.This Week in Plasma: Wayland PiP and accessibility!
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Goldman Sachs wants students to stop using ChatGPT in job interviews with the bank
Goldman Sachs wants students to stop using ChatGPT in job interviews with the bank
Anthropic and Amazon have also warned job-seekers about using AI tools, even disqualifying applicants if they’re caught.Emma Burleigh (Fortune)
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⚡️⭕️ Pakeh settlement resident to Hebrew Channel 11:I received my new house yesterday and it was destroyed today in the Iranian missile attack
⚡️⭕️ Pakeh settlement resident to Hebrew Channel 11:
I received my new house yesterday and it was destroyed today in the Iranian missile attack
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2024 - Evidence of a stolen election
She Won. They Didn't Just Change the Machines. They Rewired the Election.
How Leonard Leo's 2021 sale of an electronics firm enabled tech giants to subvert the 2024 election.substack.com
Cancers can be detected in bloodstream three years prior to diagnosis
Cancers can be detected in bloodstream three years prior to diagnosis
Detection of cancer before a clinical diagnosis could give patients and caregivers more time for intervention and may lead to better outcomes because tumors are more likely to be curableThe Hub
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How Do I Prepare My Phone for a Protest?
Shared here for public benefit.
Before going to a protest, demonstrators or observers should note that their cellphones may subject them to surveillance tactics by law enforcement. If your cellphone is on and unsecured, your location can be tracked and your unencrypted communications, such as SMS, may be intercepted. Additionally, police may retrieve your messages and the content of your phone if they take custody of your phone, or later by warrant or subpoena.
How Do I Prepare My Phone for a Protest? (Updated 2024) – The Markup
Simple steps to take before hitting the streetsthemarkup.org
How Do I Prepare My Phone for a Protest?
Shared here for public benefit.
Before going to a protest, demonstrators or observers should note that their cellphones may subject them to surveillance tactics by law enforcement. If your cellphone is on and unsecured, your location can be tracked and your unencrypted communications, such as SMS, may be intercepted. Additionally, police may retrieve your messages and the content of your phone if they take custody of your phone, or later by warrant or subpoena.
How Do I Prepare My Phone for a Protest? (Updated 2024) – The Markup
Simple steps to take before hitting the streetsthemarkup.org
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Iran launches 4th round of retaliatory attacks on Israel
Iran launches 4th round of retaliatory attacks on Israel
TEHRAN, Jun. 14 (MNA) – Iran has launched dozens of missiles in yet another fresh retaliatory attack on Israeli targets.Mehr News Agency
Iran fires 5th wave of retaliatory strikes, explosions reported across occupied territories
📆 _Sat, 14 Jun 2025 04:31:32 GMT_TEHRAN – Multiple Hebrew-language media outlets have reported that Iranian missile strikes targeted various regions across Israel, including major cities and northern territories.
Iran army: Suicide drones successfully struck targets in Israeli-occupied territories
📆 Sat, 14 Jun 2025 06:03:31 +0000
IRGC Chief Advisor: 150 Israeli targets struck as part of operation True Promise III
📆 Sat, 14 Jun 2025 06:18:46 +0000
I never even tried, and none of my former employers took me seriously. "Oh, isn't it cool, we have a Punk now, too!"
Thoroughly enjoyed surprising them by doing exactly what anyone else would expect: quitting the instant they started doing shady shit. Blindsided the lot of'em.
NO KINGS! Tomorrow on Trump's birthday, we protest across the entire nation. Check the website for No Kings events near you!
No Kings Event Map: nokings.org/#map
Find one near you, write down the address and time, and head out tomorrow. (You don't have to sign up for anything, all you need is the address).
Recommended that you bring a mask, hat, water and snacks. Safety Goggles or Glasses would also be a good idea if you have them.
Bring a sign or the US Flag if you have one.
For privacy reasons you may want to avoid bringing your phone, or place it inside a faraday bag (a really well sealed tinfoil pouch will work, and put it in airplane mode to avoid draining your battery) until you get home.
If you have a first aid kit, it wouldn't hurt to bring it, just in case.
cross-posted from: 50501.chat/post/330808
How to Make a Faraday Cage: 6 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow
The Faraday cage (or shield), named after Michael Faraday, is a device that is used to protect from electromagnetic radiation. A Faraday cage may be formed by a continuous covering of conductive material, or a mesh of such materials. This...Jessie Antonellis-John (wikiHow)
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US Army signs up Band of Tech Bros with a suitably nerdy name: Execs from Palantir, Meta, and OpenAI join Detachment 201
The four new Army Reserve Lt. Cols. are Shyam Sankar, Chief Technology Officer for Palantir; Andrew Bosworth, Chief Technology Officer of Meta; Kevin Weil, Chief Product Officer of OpenAI; and Bob McGrew, advisor at Thinking Machines Lab and former Chief Research Officer for OpenAI.
Army Launches Detachment 201: Executive Innovation Corps to Drive Tech Transformation
New Executive Innovation Corps brings top tech talent into the Army Reserve to bridge the commercial-military tech gap, with four tech leaders set to jo...www.army.mil
US Army signs up Band of Tech Bros with a suitably nerdy name: Execs from Palantir, Meta, and OpenAI join Detachment 201
The four new Army Reserve Lt. Cols. are Shyam Sankar, Chief Technology Officer for Palantir; Andrew Bosworth, Chief Technology Officer of Meta; Kevin Weil, Chief Product Officer of OpenAI; and Bob McGrew, advisor at Thinking Machines Lab and former Chief Research Officer for OpenAI.
Army Launches Detachment 201: Executive Innovation Corps to Drive Tech Transformation
New Executive Innovation Corps brings top tech talent into the Army Reserve to bridge the commercial-military tech gap, with four tech leaders set to jo...www.army.mil
Trump Regime Wants to Make Approvals Easier for Tesla's Mythical Cybercab
Trump Regime Wants to Make Approvals Easier for Tesla's Mythical Cybercab
But Elon Musk still needs to deliver the Cybercab before any of that can happen.Matt Novak (Gizmodo)
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Anker is recalling over 1.1 million power banks due to fire risks
Anker is recalling over 1.1 million power banks due to fire and burn risks
Anker is warning consumers to stop using its PowerCore 10000 batteries immediatelyAndrew Liszewski (The Verge)
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Beaverton/Hillsboro line, OR
I have a confession. Every single photograph before this one was captured on either an iPhone 6+, or an iPhone 11 Pro Max.
For a very, very long time, I had justified to myself “oh, I don’t need an actual camera, my phone is just as good.” However, three weeks ago I picked up a DSLR for the first time and I fell in love with the sheer power and expression such a tool has.
So I got a small one, a baby, a Canon Rebel T7. After a bunch of crappy shots because I was still getting used to it, I think this one is good enough to share. It doesn’t meet the par of my previous work, but it feels like I have much more control over what I create now. This is magnificent and wondrous.
Thank you for seeing me make art with actual relevant tools!
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[Lefty Cartoons] MALES do that!
- Source.
> In the background is a store with a window display, slowly revealed as the comic progresses. From right to left: Close-ups of enormous fruit (berries, a banana, a kiwi) sitting or floating over a bed of ice, with water and juice splashing dynamically upwards.
A closely-cropped image of a woman’s face, so we just see one eye and the corner of her mouth. One hand is on her cheek. Her lips and nails are icy pink. The transom above the door has an exotic flower decal.On the front door, in an artsy font treatment, it says: “Are we a smoothie shoppe? A NAIL salon? A DISPENSARY? YOU DON’T KNOW!”
MALES do that!
This cartoon is by me and Becky Hawkins, with an assist from Naomi Rubin, who suggested the kicker panel. TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON This cartoon has four panels (plus a fifth “kicker” panel…Lefty Cartoons
[Lefty Cartoons] MALES do that!
- Source.
> In the background is a store with a window display, slowly revealed as the comic progresses. From right to left: Close-ups of enormous fruit (berries, a banana, a kiwi) sitting or floating over a bed of ice, with water and juice splashing dynamically upwards.
A closely-cropped image of a woman’s face, so we just see one eye and the corner of her mouth. One hand is on her cheek. Her lips and nails are icy pink. The transom above the door has an exotic flower decal.On the front door, in an artsy font treatment, it says: “Are we a smoothie shoppe? A NAIL salon? A DISPENSARY? YOU DON’T KNOW!”
MALES do that!
This cartoon is by me and Becky Hawkins, with an assist from Naomi Rubin, who suggested the kicker panel. TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON This cartoon has four panels (plus a fifth “kicker” panel…Lefty Cartoons
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[Lefty Cartoons] MALES do that!
- Source.
> In the background is a store with a window display, slowly revealed as the comic progresses. From right to left: Close-ups of enormous fruit (berries, a banana, a kiwi) sitting or floating over a bed of ice, with water and juice splashing dynamically upwards.
A closely-cropped image of a woman’s face, so we just see one eye and the corner of her mouth. One hand is on her cheek. Her lips and nails are icy pink. The transom above the door has an exotic flower decal.On the front door, in an artsy font treatment, it says: “Are we a smoothie shoppe? A NAIL salon? A DISPENSARY? YOU DON’T KNOW!”
MALES do that!
This cartoon is by me and Becky Hawkins, with an assist from Naomi Rubin, who suggested the kicker panel. TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON This cartoon has four panels (plus a fifth “kicker” panel…Lefty Cartoons
SaltyIceteaMaker
in reply to Drew • • •like this
Rozaŭtuno likes this.
Kalcifer
in reply to Drew • • •KingOfSleep
in reply to Kalcifer • • •beeng
in reply to KingOfSleep • • •Rai
in reply to Kalcifer • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to Kalcifer • • •Norah (pup/it/she)
in reply to Drew • • •apotheotic (she/her)
in reply to Norah (pup/it/she) • • •Yeah, my pi sips energy very sparingly. Even an old laptop is going to be drawing more just to power itself, never mind what I run on it.
That said, pis are a poor value proposition nowadays and there are better options for the same use case
nivenkos
in reply to apotheotic (she/her) • • •What are the better options?
Pis have great software support so for GPIO experimentation it's so useful.
BananaTrifleViolin
in reply to nivenkos • • •There is quite a range of devices out there now with varying capabilites. Things like the Onion Omega2+, Oranage Pi, and more.
Raspberry Pi also remains good. While the Pi5 is expensive and more powerful - raspberry pi also makes the Pi Zero boards which are cheaper less capable boards which are closer to what the original raspberry Pi was but newer hardware.
I'd say the Pi5 is a heading more towards a full PC like device (hence the comparisons to cost and capability minipcs pepple are making in thia thread). But there remain plenty of lower spec machines out there now similar to the original cheap Raspberry Pi concept. And we've had high inflation recently - to some extent the cost perception avtually reflects money being worth less than it was and buying less for $10 or $20.
nivenkos
in reply to BananaTrifleViolin • • •curbstickle
in reply to nivenkos • • •Not the person you're asking but personally I use Jetson nano for some work stuff (and when I upgrade the "old" one is mine), odroid I've used for some misc creations and testing, and I'm personally looking forward to trying the radxa x4 as an htpc.
What I am really excited about right now is tossing my recently acquired spare jetson nano on a drone, right now I'm setting it up to walk around with it and test CV before it gets mounted up on the drone.
nivenkos
in reply to curbstickle • • •curbstickle
in reply to nivenkos • • •apotheotic (she/her)
in reply to nivenkos • • •Not super familiar with the gpio side of things, and I also haven't dug that deep into the space lately since I already own my rpi and it works for me so take all this with a pinch of salt, but I found some options that seem reasonable
nivenkos
in reply to apotheotic (she/her) • • •It's been a while but I remember Orange Pi having terrible support? I haven't heard of the others.
Whereas the RPi has the amazing compute module if you need it too.
Sometimes paying more is better.
apotheotic (she/her)
in reply to nivenkos • • •Norah (pup/it/she)
in reply to apotheotic (she/her) • • •𞋴𝛂𝛋𝛆
in reply to Drew • • •pewpew
in reply to 𞋴𝛂𝛋𝛆 • • •GrumpyDuckling
in reply to 𞋴𝛂𝛋𝛆 • • •jol
in reply to Drew • • •like this
Rozaŭtuno likes this.
bizarroland
in reply to jol • • •If you have the lid closed, you're looking at 3 to 15 watts to have a laptop running in the background doing some basic server shit.
Maybe a little more under high load, but those are going to be intermittent and not constant.
I'm just saying it's not that much more electricity usage, and the recycling more than offsets the CO2.
MoogleMaestro
in reply to bizarroland • • •Not all laptops make effective use of power with the lid closed, sadly. Not saying this as a correction, but for others to know that they need to make sure these settings are available in the bios of the system they are buying.
RvTV95XBeo
in reply to bizarroland • • •JustEnoughDucks
in reply to RvTV95XBeo • • •And you are often paying 140-200 for a pi nowadays to make it have the same usability as a laptop (pi, power supply, sata hat, data drive because SD cards simply fail after a while under server IO) while you can get cheap used laptops for 0-100.
So unless you are running it for more than half a decade (which rarely happens with selfhosters for a main server), you are probably spending more in total on the pi.
RvTV95XBeo
in reply to JustEnoughDucks • • •I think SD card failure rates are way overblown if you're buying from reputable manufacturers (Sandisk, Samsung). I'm sure they do occasionally fail, but I've never experienced one.
You're right, for really intensive tasks the costs can climb, but I see people asking for ideas for what to do with a junk laptop and the top suggestion is always something like pi-hole or a bookmark manager that could run on a potato.
Like with most things in life, it depends.
I'm Hiding 🇦🇺
in reply to RvTV95XBeo • • •I used to think so too, but my pi-hole just died the other week after four years of uptime. Couldn't work it out, finally pulled the SD card out to reinstall the OS and found my laptop wouldn't recognise it.
Made me glad I don't run my mailserver on a Pi anymore!
Diurnambule
in reply to I'm Hiding 🇦🇺 • • •Tim_Bisley
in reply to RvTV95XBeo • • •BananaTrifleViolin
in reply to bizarroland • • •Laptops are not generally designed to run like that with a closed lid. Heat dissipation is designed around the idea the laptop is open and some of it is through the keyboard surface. The lid closed would change that.
Systems can of course be setup to power off the display but for server/service uses open laptops may not be efficient space wise.
Having said that if the scenario is low power use the heat dissipation may not be a major issue. But if there is an unremovable battery i'd still be concerned about heat dissipation with the lid closed and even just the battery itself regardless of heat dissipiation.
saigot
in reply to BananaTrifleViolin • • •☂️-
in reply to BananaTrifleViolin • • •LaLuzDelSol
in reply to bizarroland • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to LaLuzDelSol • • •LaLuzDelSol
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to LaLuzDelSol • • •irotsoma
in reply to bizarroland • • •Not quite. Unless the system has pretty advanced power management and is using very recent technology with high density, it's unlikely that an x64 chipset will use less power than a comparably powered arm64 chipset. Not just the processor, but the smaller board is actually a power saver and allows it to generate less heat meaning both less power wasted and dissipated as heat as well as less power needed for fans to properly dissipate the heat. I've never seen a laptop use 3W at idle when considering the whole device, maybe just the CPU, but not if you include the rest of the components like RAM and disks and power supply. And especially true in a laptop that is old enough that it's being recycled. Heck, the power supply and charger alone might be using 3W at idle with full battery.
With a raspberry pi 4, the typical power usage for the 2GB RAM model is 5W under load for the whole device and about half that for idle. Add a couple of watts for the extra memory and wider bus on the 8GB model and other things can add to that, but that's mostly accurate. The pi 5 is a little more and the 3 is a little less. Of course, the efficiency of the laptop at full load might end up being better than a comparable number of raspberry pis it would take to do the same amount if work, but comparing a single pi or any other reputable arm-based, single board computer to a single laptop at idle is always going to be that way.
areyouevenreal
in reply to irotsoma • • •Battery charging circuits don't operate continuously when the device is charged. Pi also still needs a PSU, typically a phone charger, and for a server application would need an SSD or HDD in most cases. SD cards have lower performance, write endurance, and capacity after all. A single raspberry pi couldn't match even a somewhat old laptop in performance. In terms of actual efficiency (performance per watt) Pis don't do that well as they are using cheap processors made using old core designs and even older process nodes. Even the latest Pi 5 uses a 16nm process node with a core design from 2018. A 10 year old laptop might have 14nm process node which would be better. This means that a laptop would have more performance, so even if it had more power consumption at peak it could still end up with significantly better performance per watt, and that extra performance allows it to idle more often as it spends less time processing requests.
Of course the ultimate in performance per watt is always going to be a modern high power server or an Apple Silicon device. Mini PCs can also do well for home use, and are much lower power so better suited to less demanding usage, and have the best performance per watt for consumer devices. The M4 Mac Mini for example is pretty much best in class in performance per watt, and low power consumption at the same time.
irotsoma
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •Battery circuits come on enough to be a load that needs to be considered and will show up if you measure load on the device vs load consumed by the components connected to the power supply. In terms of low power devices, it is significant, though not the primary concern. But compared to the pi PSU, the charger not to mention the battery and internal PSU of a laptop, consume way more power and produce way more heat.
All of the rest assumes needing always on, heavy load processing which isn't what the post I replied to was talking about. I was specifically replying to idle power load. And in my case, even with a bunch of self hosted applications, most of the time my servers are idling. If I was running a virtualization farm or something that was always under heavy load, then yes, as I mentioned, a single board server isn't ideal.
As for disks, I don't use SSDs on my pis except one that actually does a lot of local data processing. Everything else runs in memory and stores persistent data on my NAS, including logging. Virtual memory/swap is disabled on all and things that need temporary storage/cache of small amounts of data is cached on RAM disks where applications can't be configured to not use disk caching. The only need for the SD card is for boot and some minimal IO needed for local OS operation. I have a Raspberry Pi 3 B i got about 8 or 9 years or so ago with the same SD card in it.
They aren't what I use as a database server, obviously, but they are extremely low power compared to what an old laptop would need and work great for things like pihole, and other network applications as well as being a part if my home kubernetes cluster and run the majority of the cluster's processes on demand.
areyouevenreal
in reply to jol • • •cenzorrll
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to cenzorrll • • •hemko
in reply to Drew • • •hornedfiend
in reply to Drew • • •minibyte
in reply to Drew • • •LeTak
in reply to Drew • • •Another machine I use , is with a i7 4770 with 16GB for Proxmox, 7-20w , peak is much higher but rarely used , only on boot and vm startup.
LeTak
in reply to LeTak • • •Jakeroxs
in reply to LeTak • • •ferric_carcinization
in reply to Jakeroxs • • •-☆-
in reply to Drew • • •AlligatorBlizzard
in reply to -☆- • • •cmnybo
in reply to Drew • • •N0x0n
in reply to cmnybo • • •catty
in reply to cmnybo • • •CmdrShepard49
in reply to catty • • •cmnybo
in reply to catty • • •j4yt33
in reply to Drew • • •like this
Scrollone likes this.
Macaroni_ninja
in reply to j4yt33 • • •undead
in reply to j4yt33 • • •like this
Scrollone likes this.
ramenshaman
in reply to undead • • •like this
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kent_eh
in reply to ramenshaman • • •It's essentially Craigslist, but in Canada.
Craigslist doesn't really have a user base here.
Tm12
in reply to kent_eh • • •kent_eh
in reply to Tm12 • • •LaLuzDelSol
in reply to ramenshaman • • •BlueSquid0741
in reply to undead • • •Tippon
in reply to BlueSquid0741 • • •'Gaming laptop, only used occasionally. Been sitting around for a while because my kid's got a new hobby. £1,200 no offers. I know what I've got'
The pictured laptop has a Centrino sticker on it and looks like it's been used to dig a garden
not_amm
in reply to BlueSquid0741 • • •Diurnambule
in reply to BlueSquid0741 • • •Zealousideal_Fox_900
in reply to BlueSquid0741 • • •errer
in reply to undead • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to errer • • •orca
in reply to j4yt33 • • •Sam, The Man
in reply to orca • • •Zealousideal_Fox_900
in reply to j4yt33 • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to j4yt33 • • •Mongostein
in reply to j4yt33 • • •We have bins around our city for people to drop electronics off for recycling. I’ve taken a few laptops from there. You’re not supposed to, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
One I gave to my buddy who needed something just for emails and web browsing and whatnot, one is running a server, and a couple more went back in to the bin because they were actually broken, but I took the hard drives for the server machine. I have one on a self ready in case the server machine dies so I haven’t gone looking for any new ones in a while.
glitching
in reply to Drew • • •raspberries were viable while those were cheap. I think I got a 3b (plus?) in pre-deficit years for like $25 second-hand AND I got some shitty case AND a microSD card AND it could run off of a somewhat normal USB phone charger. so using those instead of a 10 year old decommissioned desktop was an awesome value proposition.
nowadays, those devices are encroaching on trip-digits territory and the power adapter is like $30. the computing power you can buy for a third of that designates raspberries exclusively for niche use cases where footprint and power consumption are primary considerations.
not to mention fake Jason Statham just rubs me the wrong way, like all them "visionaries". he makes this sound like he's the head of Feed Africa or something, on a noble mission to save humanity and whatnot.
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Chris
in reply to glitching • • •like this
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windowsphoneguy
in reply to Chris • • •polle
in reply to Drew • • •like this
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czardestructo
in reply to polle • • •stray
in reply to polle • • •SkaveRat
in reply to stray • • •ReversalHatchery
in reply to SkaveRat • • •I think 5W probably can't be achieved, maybe with chromebook-like hardware, but I guess GPIO could be solved with a USB accessory
in my opinion the bigger problem is the fire hazard of an unsupervised charger. I have seen enough that runs super hot, and even if it doesn't, I just can't trust them.
stray
in reply to SkaveRat • • •HumanPenguin
in reply to SkaveRat • • •GnuLinuxDude
in reply to stray • • •stray
in reply to GnuLinuxDude • • •LaLuzDelSol
in reply to stray • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to LaLuzDelSol • • •CtrlAltDeltaco
in reply to stray • • •stray
in reply to CtrlAltDeltaco • • •I'm in an apartment building, so I just browse the one here whenever I take the trash out. I don't think anyone has noticed, or they've elected to mind their own business if they have.
There's so much stuff that could still be used that it honestly isn't funny, and that's just in my own bin. How much more is being wasted across the country? But at least it's in the recycling and not the trash, so that's something, I guess.
martinb
in reply to polle • • •Pretty sure you are sol with the 5w though 😊
elmicha
in reply to martinb • • •CmdrShepard49
in reply to polle • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to CmdrShepard49 • • •sabreW4K3
in reply to Drew • • •BrightCandle
in reply to Drew • • •dean
in reply to BrightCandle • • •Mini PC with N200 and NVMe SSD uses around 7W when idling.
For a minimally higher power consumption you can have up to 32 GB of memory, more powerful CPU, and decent GPU for video transcoding purposes.
areyouevenreal
in reply to BrightCandle • • •ZILtoid1991
in reply to Drew • • •orca
in reply to Drew • • •tasankovasara
in reply to orca • • •Here too. Free 2012 Mac Mini that's been servering away for a couple of years already 24/7 on UPS power. Gets a deserved smile every time I look at it 😀
I'm looking at replacing my 2018 desktop machine (a Thinkcentre Tiny) soon with one of the new AMD 395 mini-pcs. When that happens, the Mac Mini will be retired...
orca
in reply to tasankovasara • • •tasankovasara
in reply to Drew • • •elucubra
in reply to tasankovasara • • •ReversalHatchery
in reply to elucubra • • •elucubra
in reply to ReversalHatchery • • •I do SMB support, so I have a pretty good idea of what people tend to do.
I haven't seen a PS brick catch fire (possible, OFC, but extremely rare in my opinion) i have seen a PC PSU catch fire, and because of the fan, it's fucking scsry, like a jet with the afterburner.
areyouevenreal
in reply to ReversalHatchery • • •ReversalHatchery
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •I would assume that landfill laptop manufacturers are trying to minimize costs even harder on the charger.
but what timeframe do you mean with "anymore"? laptops made in this decade, or the last 10 years, or something else? there's plenty of old laptops that fitinto OPs category.
areyouevenreal
in reply to ReversalHatchery • • •ReversalHatchery
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •I have heard less about phone chargers failing catastrophically. They also handle much less power (except the fancy ones), and I haven't seen a hot phone charger adapter yet, but plenty laptop chargers of which some were just very warm, and some so hot just on its outsides that it was uncomfortable to hold it in hand.
this is why I'm more worried about laptop chargers
𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍
in reply to tasankovasara • • •This is, in my mind, one of the benefits of laptops over micro computers: integrated UPS. Even an old, degraded battery will probably get you a couple of hours with the screen off.
IME, power consumption is going to be worse overall, for any laptop likely to be in the recycle bin, it's probably double the consumption of an ARM SBC. The integrated UPS and usually decent power conditioning of the power supply saves you more money with a laptop. Plus, keyboard and screen for emergencies - I just generally expect that, over there life of a micro I'm going to have to drag out and plug in a spare keyboard, mouse, and monitor because something in a device, or an upgrade, or BIOS flash, is preventing a boot.
There are a lot of good reasons to use laptops instead of SBCs, if you don't mind the extra power draw and (as she says) don't have size requirements.
Jyek
in reply to 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍 • • •𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍
in reply to Jyek • • •No, I didn't. I don't use Pis, I have ODroids. Heck, they may sell batteries for ODroids, too.
For me, it wouldn't have made much difference because I have UPSes around the house serving things like routers, modems, and switches. And I do care about size and energy use. I'm only saying there are advantages to using laptops.
You can get little integrated LCD cases for Pis too, can't you? And maybe even a little fold-out keyboard. Congratulations! You've re-invented the laptop!
catty
in reply to 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍 • • •𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍
in reply to catty • • •Revan343
in reply to tasankovasara • • •HumanPenguin
in reply to tasankovasara • • •Not simple to remove. They can all be taken out.
But the fire risk is a very valid point. All laptops should indicate they should not be left alone when charging. While many do. Setting one up in a unobserved location to run permanently should be batteryless or Lifepo4 adapted. So laptops may not be best suited to this environment. A used thin client or other DC input option may be much easier. Or an old desktop if batts and not wanted.
areyouevenreal
in reply to tasankovasara • • •jim3692
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •I had read about it on another thread, which was about using old smartphones as servers (they used Termux).
Those old lithium batteries, although sometimes seemingly healthy, can catch fire any time. Having them connected to the charger 24/7 is only making matters worse.
I wouldn't trust the battery of old devices. I would probably buy a used UPS (without battery) and slap a new battery to it. This would cost more, but it would allow me to also connect other important devices to it - like the router and some lights.
BananaTrifleViolin
in reply to Drew • • •Low power and arm architecture are big differentiators between Pi and laptops.
I totally agree recycle laptops where possible, but they're generally noisier and less energy efficient plus the battery degrades over time and is a fire risk.
They're not necessairly a good fit for always-on server or service type uses comparef to a small board like Raspberry Pi. But a cheap or free second hand laptop is definitely good for tweaking, testing and trying our projects.
areyouevenreal
in reply to BananaTrifleViolin • • •Errorcode7
in reply to Drew • • •DownWithIsrael
in reply to Drew • • •Laptops and gaming laptops deserve way more respect than they get.
I think a lot of people are miserable because so much of their life is tied to a desktop.
737
in reply to Drew • • •reasons to use raspberry pi: energy consumption, reliability, noise, software support, performance, an ethernet port/a way faster ethernet port, availability, faster pcie/storage, io
reasons to use laptop ewaste: saving 30 usd once
mavu
in reply to 737 • • •thatradomguy
in reply to Drew • • •Kaigyo
in reply to Drew • • •Right? I made the realization a while ago that refurbished mini PCs are a way better fit for most of my homelab needs.
Sure, if power consumption is your #1 priority then you'd want some ARM solution. But for my use cases, I've found myself fighting with software support and the relatively low computational power of even the newer RPis.
Also, T-series Intel chips (the low power ones) have pretty good idle power consumption and don't spin up the fan too much given their lower power. And a lot of uses cases require sticking a fan and heat sinks on an RPi so you lose the quietness benefit.
Also also, you (still?) need proprietary blobs to use a bunch of the hardware on RPis. You can go full open source on a regular old PC.
HumanPenguin
in reply to Drew • • •Add use of gpio to reasons to use pie.
While gpio adaptors are available for pc. The software architecture is not as well rounded and documented.
So for any complex hardware project development. Gpio based SBCs are often essential.
So space, low power and gpio development.
Otherwise yep old laptop or even desktop can be cheaper and more able.
But overall. The wide software support and documentation for hardware connectivity is a bloody good reason to keep pie supported.
I'm setting 2 up to control the hot water and solar dump system on my shared little boat. As I want to link 12v Lifepo4 batt charging with the solar dump and visually impaired control for AC and diesel heating of the water.
Pies really are the best option to play with. While low power and easy to design a unique low vision interface.
Also UK boat safty. Is issuing warning about permanently connected li ion batts on boats. So it is likely setting up a laptop to manage this while not on the boat. Will be banned in the near future.
Only an issue for UK boating but worth considering the risks of leaving laptops to run when not observed.
CmdrShepard49
in reply to HumanPenguin • • •HumanPenguin
in reply to CmdrShepard49 • • •Yep that can work. But ignores all the well documented and supported development community comments I pointed to while also indicating other options exist.
As for.
You realise IO wise that describes your keyboard and mouse interaction on the most powerful gaming PCs.
It's what you do with the results that matters.
GPIO supports a fair bit more then the on and off input and output. It's slow compared to other systems. But has multiple serial protocols of differing types. Simple GUI displays can also be run via gpio connections. Low Res Lidar devices are available connected via the spi connections with all the data processed on that host PC.
So no gpio use can require all levels of processing power post connection. It is after all designed for experimentation and prototyping.
For my project. You clost to correct. I just use a simple GUI displays with xorg. So a pie 0 is plenty. And way lower power then the other options. It links to a pwm controller to power 2 12v 200w water tank heaters a relay for a 750w AC heater. Bluetooth connection to a BMS and solar MPPT. While operating multiple temp sensors measuring at different levels. And warning of legionaries risk. If the tank has not been over 65c in 14 days (actually 10 days but I'm over careful given the health status of my brother and I).
So much less then the tiny Pie 0 would not be able to cope but mainly due to the need for the vision impaired interface. Speaking functions dose not take much. But doing so without being unusably slow is about the limit of a pie 0.
aim_at_me
in reply to HumanPenguin • • •HumanPenguin
in reply to aim_at_me • • •ATM the boat is being rebuilt inside. Replacing everything.
So the system is in bits. Hidden in the engine bay.
I have old pics of the boat before we regilt all the electrics etc. if it's the shape etc your interested in.
If your a Brit who knows the canals. Think small sprinter but with a flat hull. It's not actually a springer but same steel standards etc.
aim_at_me
in reply to HumanPenguin • • •Hyacin (He/Him)
in reply to Drew • • •I mostly agree, and did the same with my second gen lab build - instead of shiny new NUCs like I had used round 1, I bought old off lease Dell Xeon boxes. SO MANY PROS -
* Got them up to 14c/28t each
* They can take GPUs and actually do heavy transcoding/ML work
* They can take up to like, 128GB of memory, which is GREAT when they're all hypervisors
The downsides can't be denied though -
* Even without the GPUs and beefed up CPUs, they are power hogs - the CPU alone uses more than an ENTIRE NUC
* They run HOT
* They run LOUD
The same holds true for off-lease SFF stuff, Lenovo and the likes ...
So while reuse/repurpose is absolutely of the utmost importance, no question - when it comes to technology and how quickly it advances and miniaturizes, a thorough and logical pros/cons list is often required.
I'd add another option though - if you do need what a Pi brings to the table - do you really need a shiny new Pi 5? Is it possible a used Pi 3 or Pi 4 would do the trick, and check the reuse box?
AndrasKrigare
in reply to Hyacin (He/Him) • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to Hyacin (He/Him) • • •Jhex
in reply to Drew • • •loveknight
in reply to Drew • • •Allero
in reply to loveknight • • •jim3692
in reply to Allero • • •Allero
in reply to jim3692 • • •I Cast Fist
in reply to Drew • • •NostraDavid
in reply to Drew • • •curbstickle
in reply to NostraDavid • • •catty
in reply to Drew • • •I dislike posts like this. Technology moves quickly. PIs are great for hobby electronics where you need a little computer. Want a cheap computer to run a few things 24/7 and know what you're doing? Pi it is. You don't need to run containers on a pi because you have the skills to install the dependencies manually. They cost pennies to run 24/7.
I think of pis as beefed-up calculators. I have made lots of money using a pi zero running code I needed to run 24/7. Code I developed myself.
Having an old laptop with outdated parts taking up lots of space, weighing a lot, and having components like fans, keyboard, and mousepad most-likely soon dying and needing replacing is an additional concern you don't want.
Someone below saying use an old laptop if you're living with parents and don't pay the electricity bill is a bit lame. Do your part for the world. Someone will be paying for it.
Ultimately, use what you want but if you're just starting with servers, use a virtual machine on your computer and log in to it. You can dick about with it as much as you want, and reset back to a working state in seconds.
CmdrShepard49
in reply to catty • • •I think this really depends on the model they're eyeballing because the Pi5 is frankly ridiculous for the price and has absurd power requirements (5V5A USB?). I wouldn't recommend one of these unless you have a specific need like a certain hat or the GPIO pins. You can get a Dell micro Optiplex for less money and have a full fledged i5 or i7 processor with similar power usage.
Plus the RPi Foundation exposed themselves as the greedy bastards they are during COVID which is yet another reason to turn your back on them.
For something like a Pi Zero, maybe go for it, but there are similar devices out there from other companies too.
Lka1988
in reply to CmdrShepard49 • • •Absolutely, I've got a cluster of mini PCs with 7th/8th gen T sku i7s, plus an Optiplex SFF running a standard i7-7700, and everything together draws less than 100W on average.
kalleboo
in reply to CmdrShepard49 • • •I picked up a used 2018 Fujitsu office PC with an i5-7500 for $60 (from a physical recycle shop, with a 14 day warranty) and it draws 15W idle. Way better value than a Pi (once you've added case, cooling, PSU etc) for running home server stuff.
A Pi still kills for "Arduino plus plus" use cases where you need the size, GPIO or can optimize the heck out of power usage on a battery.
catty
in reply to kalleboo • • •Gamma
in reply to catty • • •Yeah, theres a lot of old old laptops which make no sense to run. But there's a growing crop of more recent used devices that are only being sold off because they don't support Windows 11, and the power efficiency story changes there. The OOP mentions "8.1 lappies"; my main laptop has a 15W 8th gen which is only in the last year starting to feel less appropriate for desktop use. (And honestly, a RAM and storage bump will probably get me another couple years.)
For environmental concerns, youve got to tax new devices with manufacturing costs as well.
100% agree about VMs though.
areyouevenreal
in reply to catty • • •Laptops don't even use that much power. You guys are really not into home labbing or as good with tech as you think you are lol. Lots of people run older real servers and desktops as home servers. They use way more power than laptops. Raspberry Pis sound good but use progressively more power in each generation, and still struggle to compete with mini PCs and even older laptops in performance. They also never had good performance per watt. In performance per watt basically nothing beats a Mac Mini, though other mini PCs are also good. Laptops aren't bad in energy efficiency either. They are literally designed to run on battery so have as little idle draw as possible. They would be comparable to a mini PC if you turn off the display.
Edit: Modern RPis apparently use 25W, which is firmly in the territory of what a laptop would use when not running the screen or charging the battery.
lilith267
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •dil
in reply to lilith267 • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •Allero
in reply to catty • • •Pi's are ARM-based, which still to this day limits the scope of their applicability.
Also, you should absolutely inspect a laptop before buying. Many, if not most, of old laptops will run just fine for the next few years.
catty
in reply to Allero • • •Untrue.
Until the battery needs replacing, costing more than a pi, one key on the keyboard dies, etc.
Allero
in reply to catty • • •Which part?
Do you need any of that? You can remove the battery and keep it plugged, and use it as a server to which you connect over SSH, with an added benefit of having local access if you actually need it.
wolfinthewoods
in reply to Drew • • •Korhaka
in reply to Drew • • •Power consumption is a massive reason to really not do that. Its cheap for a reason, its takes a shitload of power to be shit and you will pay more in energy than you save in hardware unless its only powered on for short periods of time - a server typically isn't.
This is actually something that applies to cheap products too. Was in Asda a little while ago and saw 2 LED bulbs with the same lumen rating. Cheaper one used 3w more and you only saved £1. Running it for 8 hours a day for a year would cost double that saving in electricity. For a server you are looking at almost £2 per watt each year. Does that ewaste look so good to you now?
Some things are absolutely worth getting second hand, but you really should be careful considering the power cost as well.
Quick edit: If you don't need it running 24/7, consider something like AWS too. I love selfhosting but if its not running much it might be cheaper to not bother buying hardware.
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JuxtaposedJaguar
in reply to Korhaka • • •There's lots of ways to make existing hardware more efficient at the cost of performance. Under-volting the CPU and RAM (or just putting them in "efficiency" mode) can probably save more electricity than you lose in generational improvements. Considering how much more powerful PCs are compared to SBCs, you'd probably still have better performance than an SBC. Also, a more powerful CPU that takes double the power but as a result can idle for more than 50% of the time would be more efficient than a less powerful CPU never idling.
There's a lot of other variables (like idle power draw, efficiency at various power levels, idle latency, etc), but in general I think your statement would be inaccurate at least 60% of the time.
Korhaka
in reply to JuxtaposedJaguar • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to Korhaka • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to youmaynotknow • • •cantstopthesignal
in reply to Korhaka • • •HugeNerd
in reply to cantstopthesignal • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to Korhaka • • •catty
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to catty • • •catty
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to catty • • •Bro please. I understand you can host very small stuff on less powerful Pis. I used to host some stuff on a Raspberry Pi model b myself. Stop tooting your own horn. You couldn't however host all the stuff I use or even most home labbers use on a Pi zero with modern software. I doubt it could run Jellyfin, an *arr stack, ollama, nextcloud, etc all at the same time. Probably you would also have to drop using containers which would be less secure and easy to deploy.
What's the performance per watt of a Pi Zero anyway? I am sure it's low power draw but I doubt it's actually efficient.
catty
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •See here's the thing. Why would anyone want to host ALL the stuff on one pi? That is not what they were designed for. Ollama on a pi? Are you out of your mind? I'd run the biggest model I can on a modern gpu not some crappy old computer or pi....Right tool, right job. And why is dropping containers "less secure"? Do you mean "less cool"? Less easy to deploy? But you're not deploying it, you're installing it. You sound like a complete newb which is fine, but just take a step back from things and get some more experience. A pi is a tool for a purpose, not the end all. Using an old laptop is not going to save the world and arguing that it's just better than a pi (or similar alternative) is just dumb. Use a laptop for all I care, I'm not the boss of you.
As for an arr stack, I'm really disappointed with the software and don't use it and those who do have way too much time to set it up, and then make use of it!
Allero
in reply to Korhaka • • •Aren't laptops typically very energy efficient? Low consumption converts to high battery life, which is a priority for laptop hardware.
Some of them consume less than 10W.
HugeNerd
in reply to Korhaka • • •Are you living on a space station? What is this shitload of power? A whole 60 watts? Are you rationing AA batteries to run your household?
What is it with the bullshit fanciful rationalizations people come up with to consume consume consume?
squaresinger
in reply to HugeNerd • • •HugeNerd
in reply to squaresinger • • •But I want to be cool and awesome! I want to constantly re-learn how to do basic things over and over because TECHNOLOGY!!!
slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2…
And I think China is evil and dumb... but I click "add to cart" on aliexpress in my sleep!
But I am deeply worried about totally renewable energy consumption by buying an endless stream of disposable baubles!
(Read above in some kind of sarcastic tone)
Do People Actually Want Smart Glasses Now? - Slashdot
slashdot.orgFrater Mus
in reply to HugeNerd • • •Some of us live off-grid and make every Watt-hour we consume. So it may be that one man's fanciful bullshit is another man's daily life. For context, this is my 2,461st day offgrid.
Over the last 30 days I've averaged 2.01kWh/day, or an average constant consumption of 84w. All in. And that's on the high end for folks in similar use cases. In this scenario adding in another 60w would be significant (ie, impossible for my rig during winter months).
As Sesame Street taught showed us .
- YouTube
www.youtube.comKorhaka
in reply to HugeNerd • • •60w is like £120 a year, these costs add up to the point that low spec servers pretty much always cost more in energy than hardware. Of course it also depends on where you live and your energy rates.
You could buy a 20 year old server that is going to use 800w, or you could buy a mini PC that is probably more powerful and uses like 10-20w.
Then again, I used to live somewhere that energy was included in the rent so short of starting a bitcoin farm usage wouldn't really get noticed too much. In that case it would make sense to just go cheap hardware.
HugeNerd
in reply to Korhaka • • •I'm glad I don't have these addictions people seem to have. "I need a computer to measure how much water my toilet uses!" "I need a computer in my refrigerator!" etc
We've passed the useful stage of computing, we are now in the "personal issues" phase.
dil
in reply to Korhaka • • •dil
in reply to dil • • •hexagonwin
in reply to Korhaka • • •pineapple
in reply to Korhaka • • •This is generally not true. If you are using your laptop as a home server chances are it's going to be idling 99% of the time and laptops are generally pretty good in terms of idle power draw if you manage to disable the screen (or just disconnect it, take it off and find a way to repurpose it)
And in terms of environmental impact saving a laptop from landfill is definitely better since the majority of a computers impact is from the co2 emmissions from the manufacturing process. And this isn't taking into account the likely ethical considerations such as supporting terrible mining practices for resources like cobalt.
catty
in reply to pineapple • • •pineapple
in reply to catty • • •At $0.30/kwh (a very high price for electricity) you would save 5 dollars per year on electricity.
This laptop trades blows with the rasperry pi and costs half the price (55$ aud vs over 200$ aud for a brand new pi 5)
Even this second hand one costs 110$ aud which is twice the cost. With that cost of electricity it would take 11 years in order to break even.
And that's only if you consider monetary cost and not environmental cost.
HP Pavilion X360 Convertible 11-ab1XX Intel®N5000*128G SSD*8GB*WINDOWS 10Pr#3622 | eBay Australia
eBay AustraliaHugeNerd
in reply to pineapple • • •catty
in reply to pineapple • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to Korhaka • • •Ewaste computers actually tend to be on par if not better than an RPi in power consumption these days. It might feel like a RPi should be more efficient given the size and USB power connector, but modern Pis consume a solid 10-20w while in use which is more or similar to most miniPCs (they idle at single digit watts now and can "race to sleep" more effectively than a Pi) while costing about the same and the Pi is far less upgradeable
MangoCats
in reply to Trainguyrom • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to MangoCats • • •MangoCats
in reply to Trainguyrom • • •MangoCats
in reply to Korhaka • • •A good "rule of thumb" to remember: if your electricity rates average (somewhere near) $0.11/kWh you can take the average power draw of a device in watts and that is equal to what it will cost to run that device 24-7 for 365 days.
So, if that cheap PC draws 50W more than an alternate solution, it's costing you $50 more per year to use it.
Some tasks are beyond any RasPi, but it's well worth evaluating if something like an N100 fanless mini-PC can handle it instead of loading up some Core i7 rig that's going to cost more to run in the first year than the N100 costs to buy.
Korhaka
in reply to MangoCats • • •MangoCats
in reply to Korhaka • • •M137
in reply to Drew • • •And then you see people have steam decks that just sit there, unused, gathering dust.... fuck.
Tikiporch
in reply to M137 • • •rakeshmondal
in reply to Tikiporch • • •corodius
in reply to Tikiporch • • •JackbyDev
in reply to Tikiporch • • •Toribor
in reply to M137 • • •Consider buying used hardware from an office. Lots of places sell used gear for dirt cheap. A used office desktop with a used GPU from the last 3 years or so would be a massive upgrade without spending much.
Steam Deck is still a good deal for what it is though, but I wouldn't use it as a primary workstation.
Trainguyrom
in reply to M137 • • •Goretantath
in reply to Drew • • •ArchEngel
in reply to Goretantath • • •Druid
in reply to ArchEngel • • •Communist
in reply to Goretantath • • •Rolivers
in reply to Goretantath • • •zymagoras777
in reply to Rolivers • • •IndustryStandard
in reply to Drew • • •crimsonpoodle
in reply to Drew • • •Laptop for this purpose, you have to slightly over build your solar but can be nice to have a mouse and keyboard attached and monitor, ssh works. Still have an hp laptop with a core i5 2nd gen sitting out in my greenhouse, is a little more power hungry but not terrible on idle, and is nice to be able to configure changes to watering without going back inside or wrecking the zen by bringing phone.
vocornflakes
in reply to Drew • • •Agent641
in reply to Drew • • •MangoCats
in reply to Agent641 • • •JeremyHuntQW12
in reply to Agent641 • • •lipilee
in reply to Drew • • •but, fwiw: I mostly use RPi for my purposes, up to RPi4; RPi 5 I think missed the mark, with its active cooling requirement and power use. (and price...) the only use case where an i86 alternative is justified is my jellyfin setup (where realtime transcoding is needed).
MangoCats
in reply to lipilee • • •As a Pi Hole, the Pi 5 doesn't require active cooling.
Now, I am running a separate Pi 5 with a HAILO 8 for Frigate monitoring of a bunch of video streams, and it does need a little air movement, so I built a box with a 200mm fan pulling through a filter and I just threw all my Pis in there along with the Frigate rig so they stay nice and cool... I'm thinking that I should probably switch Frigate over to a Pi 4 for the h.264 hardware decoder, but the 5 is working fine for my needs and endless tweaking gets boring...
lipilee
in reply to MangoCats • • •MangoCats
in reply to lipilee • • •It's impressive what a gentle breeze will do - if you can get a fan on your cabinet it will help a lot.
I filter my air and positive pressure the cabinet so the dust doesn't build up (as fast).
Chaotic Entropy
in reply to Drew • • •MangoCats
in reply to Chaotic Entropy • • •Chaotic Entropy
in reply to MangoCats • • •MangoCats
in reply to Chaotic Entropy • • •For me it's not about the bandwidth, it's about the lag and reliability. I have had strong WiFi connections flake out a lot more than wired connections.
Also, I just prefer to not have 100+ WiFi devices kicking around my network when more than half of them could be wired, or on another protocol like Zigbee.
Chaotic Entropy
in reply to MangoCats • • •MangoCats
in reply to Chaotic Entropy • • •MangoCats
in reply to Chaotic Entropy • • •JackbyDev
in reply to Chaotic Entropy • • •Chaotic Entropy
in reply to JackbyDev • • •catty
in reply to Chaotic Entropy • • •Chaotic Entropy
in reply to catty • • •JackbyDev
in reply to Drew • • •Also, Raspberry Pi first got popular because of the size and cost. Now it's popular because it's popular. Not hating on them, I think they're cool, but they're not cheap any more. Especially with the scalping.
Getting x86_64 based systems is going to mean much less headache. Unless you truly truly need the size I wouldn't consider getting a Pi or other SBC. Just go to literally any used marketplace (Facebook, Craigslist, etc) and get anything.
Ajen
in reply to JackbyDev • • •JackbyDev
in reply to Ajen • • •Patch
in reply to JackbyDev • • •People say this, but they really are still cheap.
The original Raspberry Pi Model B launched for £22 in 2012. The entry level Raspberry Pi 5 is £46, but adjusted for inflation that's only £32 in 2012 money. So only £10 more expensive in real terms.
Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W is only £14.40, which is only £10 in 2012 money. Compare this to the original Raspberry Pi Model A, which launched for £16.
People look at the headline cost of the high end RPi 5s (£115 for the 16GB model, £76 for the 8GB), but fail to recognise that there was nothing comparable to these in the Raspberry Pi lineup before, and these are not the only models in the Raspberry Pi lineup now.
dariusj18
in reply to Patch • • •MangoCats
in reply to dariusj18 • • •Patch
in reply to dariusj18 • • •Sure, but the specs aren't directly comparable.
They also still manufacture the RPi 4, which starts at £33- which is £23 in 2012 money.
JackbyDev
in reply to Patch • • •Inflation adjustment doesn't really tell the whole story though, it's not like salaries have gone up by the same amount. Regardless, I don't like dealing with the Zero unless I specifically need something that tiny. It's just too annoying. Don't get me wrong! They're cool! I'm just saying unless I really need a Pi Zero I wouldn't wanna work with one. I'd rather work with x86_64 than Arm. Like even just getting Java working was really tricky on Zero. Much like a microcontroller has limitations for what you can run on them but they have other benefits, Zeros aren't really general purpose.
So yeah, dirt cheap used laptop for general purpose server beats out dirt cheap Pi in my book.
MangoCats
in reply to Patch • • •There was the supply shortage price spike, they really were stupid expensive then if you supported the hoarder/scalpers.
Since that has cleared... most of the Pi price increases (in inflation adjusted dollars) can be attributed to improved features like more RAM, or people acknowledging that having a good dedicated $20 power supply is preferable to dealing with the flakiness of that old phone charger you found under the bed.
MangoCats
in reply to JackbyDev • • •catty
in reply to Drew • • •Ajen
in reply to catty • • •Ulrich
in reply to catty • • •catty
in reply to Ulrich • • •Ulrich
in reply to Drew • • •Hozerkiller
in reply to Ulrich • • •Ulrich
in reply to Hozerkiller • • •MangoCats
in reply to Hozerkiller • • •Shareni
in reply to MangoCats • • •MangoCats
in reply to Shareni • • •Googledotcom
in reply to Drew • • •I had the accounting self hosted web app on it until I was too lazy for accounting and now I am in so called hot water and must make bunch of shit up using mathematical apparatus
But it worked really well for a year or so
irotsoma
in reply to Drew • • •cpo
in reply to Drew • • •eru
in reply to cpo • • •Octagon9561
in reply to Drew • • •ikidd
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •MangoCats
in reply to ikidd • • •Steve Dice
in reply to Drew • • •Olgratin_Magmatoe
in reply to Steve Dice • • •Jolteon
in reply to Olgratin_Magmatoe • • •areyouevenreal
in reply to Steve Dice • • •Steve Dice
in reply to areyouevenreal • • •SaltyIceteaMaker
in reply to Steve Dice • • •Steve Dice
in reply to SaltyIceteaMaker • • •SaltyIceteaMaker
in reply to Steve Dice • • •JeremyHuntQW12
in reply to Drew • • •dajoho
in reply to JeremyHuntQW12 • • •chaoticnumber
in reply to Drew • • •daniskarma
in reply to Drew • • •Alternative. Cheap android box and coreelec.
You can have them for about 20 bucks. Have minimal power consumption. And small power factor. They also have ARM architecture.
They are good for low power applications.