Google avoids break-up but must share data with rivals
Google avoids break-up but must share data with rivals
A case over the US tech giant's dominance in search allows it to hang on to its Chrome web browser.Lily Jamali (BBC News)
like this
Only two more Republicans needed to force vote on Epstein files release, bill co-sponsor says
Entire article:
Democratic congressman Ro Khanna says the House will be compelled to vote on legislation to release the Epstein files if two more Republicans sign on to a petition he has introduced along with Republican congressman Thomas Massie.
“We need just two more signatures to force the release,” Khanna said. So far, they have received the signatures of 212 Democrats and four Republicans: Massie, Nancy Mace, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert.
Those lawmakers are some of the most conservative in their party, but Khanna praised their support of the discharge petition, which can force a vote on legislation in the House if it is signed by a majority of lawmakers.
“We’ve got to stop the partisanship on this issue. This is an issue where they both have shown real courage and leadership, and I appreciate them joining us today,” Khanna said of Greene and Massie.
Trump cannot use Alien Enemies Act to deport Venezuelan gang members, appeals court rules – US politics live
2-1 decision from fifth circuit is the first federal appeals court ruling on presidential proclamation invoking 1798 lawTom Ambrose (The Guardian)
New Data Shows Massive Emissions From Texas Wells.
Natural gas is composed mostly of climate-warming methane but also contains other gases such as hydrogen sulfide, which is deadly at high concentrations. Gas escapes as wells are drilled and before infrastructure is in place to capture it. It also can be intentionally released if pressure in the system poses a safety risk or if capturing and transporting it to be sold is not profitable. Typically, drillers burn the gas they don’t capture, converting the methane to carbon dioxide, a less potent greenhouse gas, in a process called flaring. Sometimes, they release the gas without burning it, in a process called venting.
The permit applications showed oil companies requested to flare or vent more than 195 billion cubic feet of natural gas per year, enough to power more than 3 million homes and generate millions of dollars of tax revenue had the gas been captured. Those emissions would have a climate-warming impact roughly equivalent to 27 gas-fired power plants operating year-round, even if the flares burned every molecule of methane released from the wells.
Texas Says It’s Strict on Oil Field Emissions. New Data Shows It’s Not.
The oil industry touts Texas as a success story in controlling climate-warming methane emissions. The state’s regulator, however, grants nearly every request to burn or vent gas into the atmosphere.ProPublica
Raoul Duke likes this.
Missouri Republicans plan to gerrymander a Black lawmaker out of office
The map targets the seat of Democratic Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, one of two Black members of the state’s congressional delegation, by stretching his Kansas City-based district 200 miles east into red, rural counties that have little in common with the urban areas he’s represented for 20 years in Congress. Cleaver’s hometown of Kansas City, where he served as mayor before joining the US House, would be split into three districts to dilute Democratic voting strength. According to The Downballot, Cleaver’s district, which he won by twenty-four points in 2024, would now favor Trump by 18 points.
If successful, the new map would give Republicans 90 percent of seats in a state Trump carried with 58 percent of the vote in 2024.
“President Trump’s unprecedented directive to redraw our maps in the middle of the decade and without an updated census is not an act of democracy—it is an unconstitutional attack against it,” Cleaver said in a statement.
On Trump’s orders, Missouri Republicans plan to gerrymander a Black lawmaker out of office
“It’s minority rule on steroids."Mother Jones
Google avoids worst case scenario in court case
The prospect of a company breakup loomed large during the remedies phase of the case. Ultimately, Judge Mehta decided not to force Google to spin off Chrome, the world's most popular browser, as government lawyers had requested.
The US Department of Justice had also proposed court oversight of the company's Android operating system to ensure the company refrains from using its ecosystem to "favour its general search services and search text ad monopolies."
Both Chrome and Android emerged unscathed in Judge Mehta's ruling.
A let-off or tougher than it looks? What the Google monopoly ruling means
The search giant is not being broken up -so how much will it be affected by the remedies a judge has instead ordered?Lily Jamali (BBC News)
Reading University research shows turbulent flights become more common
New research suggests that the atmosphere will become more turbulent as climate change makes the air less stable.The University of Reading used 26 of the latest global climate models to study how warming temperatures affect jet streams at around 35,000 feet, a typical cruising altitude for a passenger airline.
As jet streams change they create stronger wind shear, the differences in wind speed at different heights.
PhD researcher at the University of Reading and lead author, Joana Medeiros said: "Increased wind shear and reduced stability work together to create favourable conditions for clear-air turbulence - the invisible, sudden jolts that can shake aircraft without warning.
"Unlike turbulence caused by storms, clear-air turbulence cannot be seen on radar, making it difficult for pilots to avoid." she said.
Reading University research shows turbulent flights to increase
University of Reading research shows that clear-air turbulence, which is invisible to aircraft, is set to get worse.Katie Waple (BBC News)
US strike on vessel in Caribbean killed 11
The video appears to show a long, multi-engine speedboat traveling at sea when a bright flash of light bursts over the craft. The boat is then briefly seen covered in flames.
Maduro did not address the strike directly, but charged that the U.S. is “coming for Venezuela’s riches,” including oil and gas. The South American country has the world’s largest proven oil reserves.
https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-strike-rubio-trump-0f901b2a30ee20e314bcab1385ffb0c0
Full Video: Jeffrey Epstein survivors, bipartisan lawmakers call for full files on case to be released
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
Shein Used Luigi Mangione’s AI-Generated Face to Sell a Shirt
::: spoiler Comments
- Reddit.
:::
The image in question was provided by a third-party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery. We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. We are conducting a thorough investigation, strengthening our monitoring processes, and will take appropriate action against the vendor in line with our policies.
Shein Responds After 'Luigi Mangione' Model Advert Goes Viral
A product listing for a shirt, sold by the fast-fashion retailer and modeled by a person who bears a striking resemblance to Mangione, has taken off online.Marni Rose McFall (Newsweek)
like this
Technology Channel reshared this.
Välkommen till höstens första fysiska AW-hackathon!
Ta med en laptop, hacka på något skoj projekt eller bara fika med kamrater!
jag hittade ett kul projekt om man vill hacka:
Fixa Fuiz så att man kan self-hosta!
Här är sidan: fuiz.org/
Här är koden:
Activists Are Using AI to Identify Masked ICE Agents
A Netherlands-based immigration activist named Dominick Skinner is using AI and facial recognition to reveal the identities of masked US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents. Talk about turned tables — and a striking ethical paradox.In an interview with Politico, Skinner claimed that he and his team of volunteers have so far been able to use AI to identify at least 20 ICE agents seen in video recordings that have gone viral of the masked figures arresting people — students, children, mothers, and American citizens included — in broad daylight. The videos are deeply troubling, in part because of the dystopian imagery of armed federal agents shielding their faces as they arrest people in streets, their cars, homes, government offices, and workplaces.
Activists Are Using AI to Identify Masked ICE Agents
An activist in the Netherlands is using AI and facial recognition to identify masked ICE agents from viral arrest videos.Maggie Harrison Dupré (Futurism)
like this
Trump Says America’s Oil Industry Is Cleaner Than Other Countries’. New Data Shows Massive Emissions From Texas Wells.
Texas Says It’s Strict on Oil Field Emissions. New Data Shows It’s Not.
The oil industry touts Texas as a success story in controlling climate-warming methane emissions. The state’s regulator, however, grants nearly every request to burn or vent gas into the atmosphere.ProPublica
like this
Andrew Cuomo Has a Jeffrey Epstein Problem
like this
Buoyed by AIPAC dollars, Wesley Bell pushes AIPAC lies
As local activist Ohun Ashe noted, it was “terrifying” that the town hall “felt dismissive to genocide, careless and end[ed] with police brutality.”
She added, “Genocide, capitalism, colonialism, abuse, oppression are all connected. We deserve leaders who can care about multiple things at once.”
AIPAC made sure that is no longer the case.
Buoyed by AIPAC dollars, Wesley Bell pushes AIPAC lies
Lawmaker's anti-genocide constituents attacked by “security” at town hall.The Electronic Intifada
Shein Used Luigi Mangione’s AI-Generated Face to Sell a Shirt | 404 Media
Shein Used Luigi Mangione’s AI-Generated Face to Sell a Shirt
A listing on ultra-fast-fashion e-commerce site Shein used an AI-generated image of Luigi Mangione to sell a floral button-down t-shirt.Mangione—the prime suspect in the December 2024 murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson—is being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, last I checked, and is not modeling for Shein.
I first saw the Mangione Shein listing on the culture and news X account Popcrave, which posted the listing late Tuesday evening.
Shein’s website appears to use Luigi Mangione’s face to model a spring/summer shirt. pic.twitter.com/UPXW8fEPPq
— Pop Crave (@PopCrave) September 3, 2025
Shein removed the listing on Wednesday, but someone saved it on the Internet Archive before Shein took it down. "The image in question was provided by a third-party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery," Shein told Newsweek in a statement. "We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. We are conducting a thorough investigation, strengthening our monitoring processes, and will take appropriate action against the vendor in line with our policies." Shein provided the same comment to 404 Media.The item, sold by the third-party brand Manfinity, had the description “Men's New Spring/Summer Short Sleeve Blue Ditsy Floral White Shirt, Pastoral Style Gentleman Shirt For Everyday Wear, Family Matching Mommy And Me (3 Pieces Are Sold Separately).”
The Manfinity brand makes a lot of Shein stuff using AI-generated models, like these gym bros selling PUSH HARDER t-shirts and gym sweats and this very tough guy wearing a “NAH, I’M GOOD” tee. AI-generated models are all over Shein, and seems especially popular with listings featuring babies and toddlers. AI models in fashion are becoming more mainstream; in July, Vogue ran advertisements for Guess featuring AI-generated women selling the brand’s summer collection.
Last year, artists sued Shein, alleging the Chinese e-commerce giant scraped the internet using AI and stole their designs, and it’s been well-documented that fast fashion sites use bots to identify popular themes and memes from social media to put them on their own listings. Mangione merch and anything related to the case—including remixes of the United Healthcare logo and the “Deny, Defend, Depose” line allegedly found on the bullet—went wild in the weeks following Thompson’s murder; Manfinity might have generated what seemed popular on social media (Mangione’s smiling face) and automatically put it on a shirt listing. Based on the archived listing, it worked: A lot of people managed to grab a limited edition Shein Luigi Ditsy Floral before it was removed: According to the archived version of the listing, it was sold out of all sizes except for XXL.
Copyright Abuse Is Getting Luigi Mangione Merch Removed From the Internet
Artists, merch sellers, and journalists making and posting Luigi media have become the targets of bogus DMCA claims.Jason Koebler (404 Media)
thisisbutaname likes this.
‘I told my family, I’ll probably die’: US immigration sends Russian asylum seekers back to Moscow
‘I told my family, I’ll probably die’: US immigration sends Russian asylum seekers back to Moscow
Russian national who applied for asylum on political grounds describes inhumane treatment while in US custodyPjotr Sauer (The Guardian)
Raoul Duke likes this.
Osserva con l‘Inaf l’eclissi totale di Luna
Osserva con l‘Inaf l’eclissi totale di Luna
Domenica 7 settembre la Luna si tingerà di rosso: sarà possibile seguire l’evento insieme alle ricercatrici e ai ricercatori dell’Istituto nazionale di astrofisica attraverso la diretta speciale di EduInaf, su YouTube e Facebook, dalle ore 19:15.Redazione Media Inaf (MEDIA INAF)
E tu Luna
With no federal facial recognition law, states rush to fill void
While facial recognition technology is unregulated at the federal level, 23 states have now passed or expanded laws to restrict the mass scraping of biometric data, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
Last month, Colorado enacted new biometric privacy rules, requiring consent before facial or voice recognition technology is used, while also banning the sale of the data. Texas passed an artificial intelligence law in June that similarly outlaws the collection of biometric data without permission. Last year, Oregon approved data privacy rules requiring consumer opt-in before companies hoover up face, eye and voice data.
"What we need are laws that change the behavior of technology companies," Adam Schwartz, the privacy litigation director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Otherwise these companies will continue to profit on what should be our private information."
Not all state laws give people right to sue tech companies
The states that have passed the safeguards view them as a defense against the prevalence of digital tracking in everyday lives, and in a number of cases, the laws have been used to extract large payouts from tech companies.
Google and Meta have each paid Texas $1.4 billion over allegations that the companies datamine users' facial recognition data without permission; Clearview AI, a facial recognition company popular with law enforcement, ponied up $51 million to settle a case approved in March over the firm scraping billions of facial images online without consent; And in July, Google resolved a smaller case for $9 million in Illinois after a lawsuit alleged the company did not obtain written consent from students who used a Google educational tool that collected their voice and facial data.
Illinois's requirement that companies receive written permission before gathering biometric data goes farther than most states, which require digital consent — or checking a box for a company's terms and conditions policy, something experts say is a largely symbolic gesture in practice.
"I'm not saying it's better than nothing, but if you're hanging these legal frameworks on a model of informed consent, it's clearly ineffective," said Michael Karanicolas, a legal scholar at Dalhousie University in Canada who studies digital privacy. "Nobody is reading these terms of service. Absolutely nobody can effectively engage with the permission we're giving these companies in our surveillance economy."
Karanicolas said Illinois' biometric privacy law, which was passed in 2008, has real teeth because it allows individuals to sue companies, which privacy advocates say the tech industry has lobbied hard against. California and Washington state allow residents to sue in some types of cases.
But most of the laws, like in Texas, Oregon, Virginia and Connecticut and elsewhere, rely on state attorneys general to enforce them. Advocates say allowing citizens to sue, what's known as "a private right of action," helps people fight back against data-guzzling companies.
"And that can lead to these big class-action settlements, and there are legitimate critiques of them, with class members often getting very little money, and lawyers getting rich, but they can be genuinely effective at shaping companies' attitudes about personal information and generate corporate change," Karanicolas said.
like this
reshared this
Banning private companies should keep police from having a source to buy from.
But that’s not enough.
It's a step in the right direction, but reserving the right to sue companies that collect and share our most sensitive personal information and whereabouts is not enough. It is a cost of doing business to them to be weighed against the potential for profit. This line of thinking is now taught in business schools.
Nothing will change materially until the executives are faced with the potential of jail time.
Fediverse Iconography
Found on mastodon here: pc.cafe/@fedicat/1151381418119…
nice iconscodeberg.org/FediverseIconogra…
Fediverse Iconography
Codeberg is a non-profit, community-led organization that aims to help free and open source projects prosper by giving them a safe and friendly home.Codeberg.org
like this
reshared this
well, to me its part of the fediverse if it uses activitypub. You can bridge whatsapp, telegram and mastodon with matrix and a minecraft server, that doesnt make them be a part of the matrix protocol or the fediverse.
Canada’s out-of-control wildfire crisis in six charts
Canada’s out-of-control wildfire crisis in six charts
Canadian wildfire has quadrupled since the 1990s. That’s releasing billions of tonnes of CO2. The climate beast is waking up. When will we?Canada's National Observer
like this
Musicians v the climate crisis: ‘We’re trying to put on the greenest show in Australia’
Musicians v the climate crisis: ‘We’re trying to put on the greenest show in Australia’
A two-week tour produces the equivalent of an average household’s yearly carbon emissions. So some bands, including Lime Cordiale and Cloud Control, are trying small changes – like ditching confetti – and big ones – like building solar farmsJack Tregoning (The Guardian)
like this
The band also provided venues with a “green rider”, requesting measures including eliminating single-use plastics
Again, not saying they're perfect, but feels like they're trying.
‘RIP Streameast’: Largest Illicit Sports Streamer Is Shut Down
like this
Halting Revolution Wind could be a disaster for New England’s grid; If Trump kills the now-frozen offshore wind project, utility customers will pay more money for dirtier and less reliable electricity
Halting Revolution Wind could be a disaster for New England’s grid
If Trump kills the now-frozen offshore wind project, utility customers will pay more money for dirtier and less reliable electricity.Canary Media
Global methane levels continue rising as trade and developing regions fuel growth
Global methane levels continue rising as trade and developing regions fuel growth
The world's methane emissions continue to rise steadily with no signs of slowing, as global trade contributes some 30% to the total amount of the greenhouse gas swirling around the planet, a new study reveals.University of Birmingham (Phys.org)
China accounted for most of the growth, installing more than twice as much solar in the first half of this year as it did in early 2024. The U.S., by comparison, saw solar installations rise by just 4 percent.Through its exports of low-cost solar panels, China also drove growth in India and across much of Africa, the analysis found. Over the last 12 months, solar exports to the African continent rose by 60 percent, according to Ember. Fulghum said that for countries contending with a volatile fossil fuel market, solar has become an attractive option.
This year China has added twice as much solar capacity as the rest of the world combined, the analysis found, though the country is now at a crossroads. For the first time in China, solar isn’t just supplementing coal power, but replacing it.
US job openings slip to 7.2 million in July, more evidence the American labor market is cooling
cross-posted from: lemmy.ca/post/50935982
The U.S. job market has lost momentum this year, partly because of the lingering effects of 11 interest rate hikes by the inflation fighters at the Federal Reserve in 2022 and 2023 and partly because President Donald Trump’s trade wars have created uncertainty that is paralyzing managers making hiring decisions.
like this
DOJ & States Must Appeal Judge Mehta’s Act of Judicial Cowardice, Letting Google Keep Its Monopoly Power
DOJ & States Must Appeal Judge Mehta’s Act of Judicial Cowardice, Letting Google Keep Its Monopoly Power - DOJ & States Must Appeal Judge Mehta’s Act of Judicial Cowardice, Letting Google Keep Its Monopoly Power
Despite finding last year that Google illegally maintained a monopoly over search and search advertising, Judge Amit Mehta today declined to follow the law and terminate the monopoly.Jimmy Wyderko (American Economic Liberties Project)
Technology Channel reshared this.
[PDF] Character.AI chatbots of Timothée Chalamet, Chappell Roan, and Patrick Mahomes chatted inappropriately with teen accounts on topics like sex and drugs
Most American teens (72%) have had an experience with an AI chatbot, and over
half use them several times a month. Character AI, one of the largest and most
popular chatbot platforms, is available to children ages 13 and over. The platform
hosts a wide variety of chatbots modeled after celebrities and fictional characters
that appeal to children – both teens and younger kids. Several disturbing and
tragic cases of extreme harm due to interactions on Character AI chatbots have
already occurred since the company’s launch in September of 2022. As chatbots
become more popular with children and teens, understanding the risks they
present is critical to child safety online.Adult researchers from ParentsTogether Action, in partnership with Heat Initiative,
held 50 hours of conversation with Character AI chatbots using accounts
registered to children. They found that Character AI chatbots engaged in a pattern
of deeply concerning behaviors during these interactions. Harmful patterns and
behaviors sometimes emerged within minutes of engagement.Across 50 hours of conversation with 50 Character AI bots, ParentsTogether
Action researchers logged 669 harmful interactions - an average of one harmful
interaction every five minutes.
It’s time for Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries to step down | Mehdi Hasan
3 Sep 2025
Time and time again, Jeffries has refused to endorse his own party’s official candidate for mayor in his own city, two months after Zohran Mamdani won the Democratic mayoral primary in New York by double digits – including Jeffries’ own congressional district by eight points.This is the same Democratic party leader who has insisted in the past that progressives should “vote BLUE (no matter who)”. But centrists? Apparently, they’re under no such obligation.
Jeffries is not alone in his brazen hypocrisy. Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader who represents the state of New York and lives in the city of New York, has also refused to endorse his own party’s official candidate for mayor of New York.
It’s time for Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries to step down
This fascist moment, this age of Trump, demands outspoken, unrelenting, and fearless opposition. We all deserve betterMehdi Hasan (The Guardian)
Raoul Duke likes this.
It’s time for Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries to step down | Mehdi Hasan
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/35624613
3 Sep 2025
Time and time again, Jeffries has refused to endorse his own party’s official candidate for mayor in his own city, two months after Zohran Mamdani won the Democratic mayoral primary in New York by double digits – including Jeffries’ own congressional district by eight points.This is the same Democratic party leader who has insisted in the past that progressives should “vote BLUE (no matter who)”. But centrists? Apparently, they’re under no such obligation.
Jeffries is not alone in his brazen hypocrisy. Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader who represents the state of New York and lives in the city of New York, has also refused to endorse his own party’s official candidate for mayor of New York.
It’s time for Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries to step down | Mehdi Hasan
3 Sep 2025Time and time again, Jeffries has refused to endorse his own party’s official candidate for mayor in his own city, two months after Zohran Mamdani won the Democratic mayoral primary in New York by double digits – including Jeffries’ own congressional district by eight points.This is the same Democratic party leader who has insisted in the past that progressives should “vote BLUE (no matter who)”. But centrists? Apparently, they’re under no such obligation.
Jeffries is not alone in his brazen hypocrisy. Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader who represents the state of New York and lives in the city of New York, has also refused to endorse his own party’s official candidate for mayor of New York.
It’s time for Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries to step down
This fascist moment, this age of Trump, demands outspoken, unrelenting, and fearless opposition. We all deserve betterMehdi Hasan (The Guardian)
like this
5 forecasts early climate models got right – the evidence is all around you
5 forecasts early climate models got right – the evidence is all around you
From rising global temperatures to the fast-warming Arctic, early climate models predicted the changes half a century ago.The Conversation
like this
Brazil’s Amazon love motels ditch erotic decor to host Cop30 climate summit | In Belém, motels known for sex chairs and mirrored ceilings are stripping risqué features for climate negotiators
Brazil’s Amazon love motels ditch erotic decor to host Cop30 climate summit
In Belém, motels known for sex chairs and mirrored ceilings are stripping risqué features for climate negotiatorsTom Phillips (The Guardian)
Pentagon to start using Grok as part of a $200 million contract with Elon Musk's xAI
Pentagon to start using Grok as part of a $200 million contract with Elon Musk's xAI
The announcement comes just days after Grok generated antisemitic responses and praised Hitler, which were later deleted.Patrick Maguire (CBS News)
Raoul Duke likes this.
Trump’s Anti-Climate Crusade Puts Big Oil in Awkward Spot: Exxon, Chevron and Occidental have pledged to curb their emissions—and unveiled plans to spend billions of dollars on low-carbon technologies
The oil industry's decarbonization efforts were always just for show, and not anything serious. They also paid a billion dollars to get Trump to do exactly this, so I doubt they care much about how awkward their lobbyists look.
This post uses a gift link with a view count limit. If it runs out, an archived copy of the article should show up here shortly after I post
"Will nobody think of the oil companies?"
They'll just pocket the money and keep on killing us. They're also the ones behind the MAGA war on climate science and renewable energy.
China’s chip startups are racing to replace Nvidia
China chip startups race to replace Nvidia amid U.S. export bans - Rest of World
Chinese semiconductor startups like Cambricon, Moore Threads, and Biren are racing to rival Nvidia as U.S. export controls reshape the AI chip market.Viola Zhou (Rest of World)
reddig33
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Maybe if they add 3D, people will buy them!
/s
like this
Endymion_Mallorn e onewithoutaname like this.
wildbus8979
in reply to reddig33 • • •like this
Endymion_Mallorn e onewithoutaname like this.
radix
in reply to wildbus8979 • • •wildbus8979
in reply to radix • • •CarbonIceDragon
in reply to reddig33 • • •Tarquinn2049
in reply to CarbonIceDragon • • •Yeah, very much looking forward to headsets with 8k panels. Most are up to 4k now, and it's getting pretty good. If it stays at 4k for a bit, that would be fine. But it's definitely an area where 8k will still be a very noticeable upgrade.
Even if the only short-term practical use for an 8k panel is how far away a 4k or 1080p screen would be clear to read in an augmented reality situation, that would be reason enough. But I personally will gladly lower quality settings to run VR games in 8k instead of 4k as well.
thejml
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I'll take one! Well, two really. One large one for TV/media viewing and one to replace my 43" 4k monitor. Quadrupling the resolution on that would be amazing.
The difference would be minimal on the media screen, TBH, but Ive seen them in person and can tell the difference. It's just not a big enough difference to warrant replacing what I have.
like this
Endymion_Mallorn likes this.
dindonmasker
in reply to thejml • • •floofloof
in reply to thejml • • •acosmichippo
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
Endymion_Mallorn, dcpDarkMatter e onewithoutaname like this.
jqubed
in reply to acosmichippo • • •like this
Endymion_Mallorn likes this.
NuXCOM_90Percent
in reply to jqubed • • •Not familiar with NHK specifically (or, to be clear, I think I am but not with enough certainty), but it really makes a lot of sense for news networks to push for 8k or even 16k at this point.
Because it is a chicken and egg thing. Nobody is going to buy an 8k TV if all the things they watch are 1440p. But, similarly, there aren't going to be widespread 8k releases if everyone is watching on 1440p screens and so forth.
But what that ALSO means is that there is no reason to justify using 8k cameras if the best you can hope for is a premium 4k stream of a sporting event. And news outlets are fairly regularly the only source of video evidence of literally historic events.
From a much more banal perspective, it is why there is a gap in TV/film where you go from 1080p or even 4k re-releases to increasingly shady upscaling of 720 or even 480 content back to everything being natively 4k. Over simplifying, it is because we were using MUCH higher quality cameras than we really should have been for so long before switching to cheaper film and outright digital sensors because "there is no point". Obviously this ALSO is dependent on saving the high resolution originals but... yeah.
acosmichippo
in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent • • •NuXCOM_90Percent
in reply to acosmichippo • • •acosmichippo
in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent • • •NuXCOM_90Percent
in reply to acosmichippo • • •Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In
in reply to acosmichippo • • •like this
onewithoutaname likes this.
paraphrand
in reply to Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In • • •I’m sorry, but if we are talking about 8k viability in TVs, we are not talking about shooting in 8k for 4k delivery.
You should be pointing out that shooting in higher than 8k, so you have the freedom to crop in post, is part of the reason 8k is burdensome and expensive.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In
in reply to paraphrand • • •So correct the person above me, they wrote about shooting in 8k.
The RED V-Raptor is expensive for consumer grade but nothing compared to some film equipment. There are lenses more expensive than an 8k camera.
themeatbridge
in reply to acosmichippo • • •Fredselfish
in reply to themeatbridge • • •Hell I still don't own a 4k tv and don't plan to go out of my way to buy one unless the need arises. Which I don't see why I need that when a normal flat-screen looks fine to me.
I actually have some tube tvs and be thinking of just hooking my vcr back up and watching old tapes. I don't need fancy resolutions in my shows or movies.
Only time I even think of those things is with video games.
NauticalNoodle
in reply to Fredselfish • • •WanderingThoughts
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •sp3ctr4l
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/…
Extensive write up on this whole issue, even includes a calculator tool.
But, basically:
Yeah, going by angular resolution, even leaving the 8K content drought aside....
8K might make sense for a computer monitor you sit about 2 feet / 0.6m away from, if the diagonal size is 35 inches / ~89cm, or greater.
Take your viewing distance up to 8 feet / 2.4m away?
Your screen diagonal now has to be about 125 inches / ~318cm, or larger, for you to be able to maybe notice a difference with a jump from 4K to 8K.
........
The largest 8K TV that I can see available for purchase anywhere near myself... that costs ~$5,000 USD... is 85 inches.
I see a single one of 98 inches that is listed for $35,000. That's the largest one I can see, but its... uh, wildly more expensive.
So with a $5,000, 85 inch TV, that works out to...
You would have to be sitting closer than about 5 feet / ~1.5 meters to notice a difference.
And that's assuming you have 20/20 vision.
........
So yeah, VR goggle displays... seem to me to be the only really possibly practical use case for 8K ... other than basically being the kind of person who owns a home with a dedicated theater room.
TV Size To Distance Calculator (And The Science Behind It)
RTINGS.comtankplanker
in reply to sp3ctr4l • • •What this chart is missing is the impact of the quality of the screen and the source material being played on it.
A shit screen is a shit screen, just like a badly filmed TV show from the 80s will look like crap on anything other than an old CRT.
People buying a 4k screen from Wallmart for $200 then wondering why they cant tell its any better than their old 1080p screen.
The problem with pushing up resolution is the cost to get a good set right now is so much its a niche within a niche of people who actually want it. Even a good 4k set with proper HDR support and big enough to make a different is expensive. Even when 8k moves away from early adopter markups its still going to be expensive, especially when compared to the tat you can by at the supermarket.
sp3ctr4l
in reply to tankplanker • • •It is totally true that things are even more complex than just resolution, but that is why I linked the much more exhaustive write up.
Its even more complicated in practice than all the things they bring up, they are focusing on mainly a movie watching experience, not a video game playing experience.
They do not go into LED vs QLED vs OLED vs other actual display techs, don't go into response latency times, refresh rates, as you say all the different kinds of HDR color gamut support... I am sure I am forgetting things...
Power consumption may be a significant thing for you, image quality at various viewing angles...
Oh right, FreeSync vs GSync, VRR... blargh there are so many fucking things that can be different about displays...
5in1k
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •M137
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •you're*
It's not hard, get it right.
NauticalNoodle
in reply to M137 • • •caseyweederman
in reply to M137 • • •fartographer
in reply to acosmichippo • • •Bobo The Great
in reply to acosmichippo • • •Not only the content doesn't exist yet, it's just not practical. Even now 4k broadcasting is rare and 4k streaming is now a premium (and not always with a good bitstream, which matters a lot more) when once was offered as a cost-free future, imagine 8k that would roughly quadruple the amount of data required to transmit it (and transmit speee is not linear, 4x the speed would probably be at least 8x the cost).
And I seriously think noone except the nerdiest of nerds would notice a difference between 4k and 8k.
Lucidlethargy
in reply to acosmichippo • • •Broken
in reply to acosmichippo • • •People are content watching videos on YouTube and Netflix. They don't care for 4k. Even if they pay extra for Netflix 4k (which I highly doubt they do) I still question if they are watching 4k with their bandwidth and other limiting factors, which means they're not watching 4k and are fine with it.
Peffse
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I don't know if it changed, but when I started looking around to replace my set about 2 years ago, it was a nightmare of marketing "gotcha"s.
Some TVs were advertising 240fps, but only had 60fps panels with special tricks to double framerate twice or something silly. Other TVs offered 120fps, but only on one HDMI port. More TVs wouldn't work without internet. Even more had shoddy UIs that were confusing to navigate and did stuff like default to their own proprietary software showing Fox News on every boot (Samsung). I gave up when I found out that most of them had abysmal latency since they all had crappy software running that messed with color values for no reason. So I just went and bought the cheapest TV at a bargain overstock store. Days of shopping time wasted, and a customer lost.
If I were shown something that advertised with 8K at that point, I'd have laughed and said it was obviously a marketing lie like everything else I encountered.
like this
Endymion_Mallorn e onewithoutaname like this.
Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to Peffse • • •Vik
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to Vik • • •Vik
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •I'll consider you lucky. I've had many experiences with their hardware across different segments (phones, tablets, laptops, mainboards, NICs, displays, GPUs).
They're an atrocious vendor with extremely poor customer support (and shitty SW practicies for UMA systems and motherboards).
I don't think many people have been as unfortunate as I have with them, the general consensus is they mark their products up considerably relative to competition (particularly mainboards & GPUs).
To be fair, their contemporaries arent much butter.
Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to Vik • • •Dang.
I switched to ASRock for my AMD build for specific feature sets and reading ASUS AM5 stuff it looks like that was a good idea.
Vik
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •But ASRock 800 series AM5 boards are killing granite ridge 3D CPUs en masse. Funny enough, it happened to me.
I begrudgingly switched to Asus after my CPU was RMA'd as that was the only other vendor to offer ECC compat on a consumer platform.
Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to Vik • • •Vik
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •Gerudo
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •ShellMonkey
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
Endymion_Mallorn likes this.
acosmichippo
in reply to ShellMonkey • • •ShellMonkey
in reply to acosmichippo • • •Frezik
in reply to ShellMonkey • • •This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥
in reply to Frezik • • •etchinghillside
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
Endymion_Mallorn e Sickday like this.
LifeInMultipleChoice
in reply to etchinghillside • • •There was a while that I exclusively used apps where I could lower the bitrate of music I listened to. Because I'm not rocking crazy good headsets and such for when I needed it, and I really saw no reason to use up larger amounts of data when I was listening to music over the sound of a lawnmower walking around the yard for an hour. If I was going to leave music on and not have wifi, it just didn't seem worth it.
Also if you had poor bandwidth in an area, it plays better
etchinghillside
in reply to LifeInMultipleChoice • • •Resplendent606
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
Endymion_Mallorn likes this.
acosmichippo
in reply to Resplendent606 • • •IsoKiero
in reply to Resplendent606 • • •ShittyBeatlesFCPres
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •TonyTonyChopper
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •You will never be able to game at 8k. Modern games run with 720p and 60 fps on the best GPUs, then "AI enhanced" to a vaseline coated 4k
Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to TonyTonyChopper • • •I run DOOM eternal at 4k with a stable 120 fps (not the AI enhanced interpolation garbage) with a 3080...
I couldn't imagine going back to gaming at 60fps and is a big reason I hate console ports.
TonyTonyChopper
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •Poem_for_your_sprog
in reply to TonyTonyChopper • • •Gerudo
in reply to TonyTonyChopper • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to TonyTonyChopper • • •No they don't. On PC you can run games at native resolution with zero "AI enhanced" stuff.
addie
in reply to Poem_for_your_sprog • • •Speaking as a developer; I've a 4K screen which is amazing for having loads of source files open at the same time, and also works for old or undemanding games. Glorious Eggroll's version of Proton has all the FSR patches in it, so you can 'upscale anything'. Almost any modern game, I'm going to be running at lower resolution, usually either 1440p or the slightly odd 2954 x 1662. Generally, highest-quality graphics and upscaling looks better than medium-quality native to me, for games where I have to compromise.
I would be interested in an 8K display for coding, as long as the price is reasonable. I'm not spending five grand, that would be crazy. But I'd still be upscaling for playing games, as basically no GPU could drive that many pixels.
MeekerThanBeaker
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Geometrinen_Gepardi
in reply to MeekerThanBeaker • • •Typhoon
in reply to Geometrinen_Gepardi • • •IhaveCrabs111
in reply to Typhoon • • •Kairos
in reply to Typhoon • • •Anivia
in reply to Geometrinen_Gepardi • • •Increasing resolution but keeping the same bitrate still improves the image quality, unless the bitrate was extremely low in the first place. Especially with modern codecs
20mbps 4k looks a lot better than 20mbps 1080p with AV1
ramble81
in reply to MeekerThanBeaker • • •Yeah 4K means jack if it’s compressed to hell, if you end up with pixels being repeated 4x to save on storage and bandwidth, you’ve effectively just recreated 1080p without upscaling.
Just like internet. I’d rather have guaranteed latency than 5Gbps.
Komodo Rodeo
in reply to MeekerThanBeaker • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to Komodo Rodeo • • •This is a problem with your internet/network, not the TV.
Junkers_Klunker
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
onewithoutaname likes this.
Mwa
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •No Media support.
And also on Monitors and Tvs i don't care if it's a. 1080p or 1440p of 4k give me 1080p
onewithoutaname likes this.
dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •RustyShackleford
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
onewithoutaname likes this.
SharkAttak
in reply to RustyShackleford • • •interdimensionalmeme
in reply to RustyShackleford • • •harc
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •SharkAttak
in reply to harc • • •harc
in reply to SharkAttak • • •ThePantser
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •8K content is too storage hungry. My pirate ship is already bursting at the seams with some 4K but mostly 1080. I have 130TB of media, if it was in 8K I would need a water cooled server farm.
That's the REAL reason for lack of 8K interest, the pirates are not demanding it. Not until 100TB drives are available for a reasonable price.
WhatAmLemmy
in reply to ThePantser • • •The real reason for lack of interest is streaming quality of 4k has been getting worse for years, and is still like 1/10th the quality of 4k BluRay, with enormous levels of compression and artifacts.
8k requires 4x the data. We all know that means every subscription would charge at least 2x more to maintain profit margins of unlimited growth for vulture capitalism, and they'd skimp on the extra data too; leaving users with nothing better than the current 4k.
ThePantser
in reply to WhatAmLemmy • • •That's true, and to add to that, most mobile phone and many land Internet based connections are not unlimited and have caps. Nobody wants to stream a few 8k movies and use up their entire monthly cap in one shot.
-speaking as a US user, many countries offer unlimited as standard but not the evil empire.
FreedomAdvocate
in reply to ThePantser • • •WhatAmLemmy
in reply to ThePantser • • •borari
in reply to ThePantser • • •Wait what? Are you implying that if there was demand for 8k content, then pirates would make it available? The content has to exist in order for pirates to release it.
I can download a remux of the 4K Lawrence of Arabia transfer because it was filmed in 70mm and the studio transferred it at 4K.
It’s 70mm film, so it’s ~8-12K equivalent, but to actually get that resolution they would have to scan that film at that resolution, then go through the whole video workflow, color correction, whatever tf idk I’m not a video engineer, at that resolution, and render out the final version at that resolution.
Pirates aren’t doing that, they’re ripping physical or digital releases. And there’s no point in downloading an 8K upscale of a 4K release, just let your TV or your Shield or Infuse handle the upscaling.
ThePantser
in reply to borari • • •borari
in reply to ThePantser • • •Ah ok I see what you were saying. Honestly I think we’ll see physical media first, like multilayer Blu-ray Discs or something, that drive the initial adoption, just like with 4K. One people get a taste of it, demand will force streamers to offer it at a premium tier, until it eventually just becomes normalized.
But yeah I think it’s gonna be way slower than the buildup to 4K also.
Gerudo
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Hexagon
in reply to Gerudo • • •That would be... (checks math)... about 5.972 Gbps of bandwidth, assuming just non-HDR content and 30 fps. Probably impossible for most people.
Less compression could make sense, but literally no compression would be a colossal waste of bandwidth and storage.
Gerudo
in reply to Hexagon • • •Hexagon
in reply to Gerudo • • •No, I wanted to make a different point: that uncompressed video would be unreasonably huge. Nobody uses it. Regardless of the resolution, a good compressed video looks basically the same but it is hundreds of times smaller.
You should ask for less compressed video. Uncompressed is just not worth it.
the_q
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to the_q • • •the_q
in reply to FreedomAdvocate • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to the_q • • •CompactFlax
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •My viewing position is about 330cm/11ft from the wall where my tv is mounted. That works out to roughly 80” television for 4K viewing pleasure.
rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/…
8k would be ridiculous, and the compression would be a significant factor.
Remember when ISP companies went after people who used over 500GB in a month? I remember.
TV Size To Distance Calculator (And The Science Behind It)
RTINGS.comABetterTomorrow
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •ABetterTomorrow
in reply to ABetterTomorrow • • •Tarquinn2049
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •cmtumruk
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •TORFdot0
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •like this
onewithoutaname likes this.
Imgonnatrythis
in reply to TORFdot0 • • •I still sometimes have hiccups with streaming 4k content. I'd rather save bandwidth than stream 8k.
Until the pipelines are bigger or compression algorithms improve, I'd rather pause at 4k.
Lucidlethargy
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I want a new fucking 3D TV. I'm so mad every single manufacturer gave up on that.
Yes, a lot of 3D content was awful, headache-inducing, and bad... But tons of it was done very well and looks amazing.
bystander
in reply to Lucidlethargy • • •Photuris
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I don’t care about 8k.
I just want an affordable dumb TV. No on-board apps whatsoever. No smart anything. No Ethernet port, no WiFi. I have my own stuff to plug into HDMI already.
I’m aware of commercial displays. It just sucks that I have to pay way more to have fewer features now.
iopq
in reply to Photuris • • •dan
in reply to Photuris • • •You can have a smart TV but never set up any of the smart features. I have two LG OLED TVs but rarely touch anything on the TV itself. I've got Nvidia Shields for streaming and turning it on or off also turns the TV on or off. Same with my Xbox.
I just need to figure out if I can use CEC with my SFF gaming PC (so that turning it on also turns the TV on, and turning it off turns the TV off), then I won't have to touch the TV's remote again.
Ethernet port or wifi are good for controlling the TV using something like Home Assistant. I have my TVs on a separate isolated VLAN with no internet access. I have a automation that runs when the TV turns on, to also turn on some LED lights behind the TV.
4am
in reply to dan • • •dan
in reply to 4am • • •grue
in reply to dan • • •dan
in reply to grue • • •Photuris
in reply to dan • • •Fine, but I don’t want the smart features to be installed at all in the first place.
I don’t want a WiFi antenna or Ethernet port in there.
I know that sounds ridiculous, since I can “simply not use them,” but I want to spend my money on an appliance, not a consumer data collection tool.
I don’t want them to have any of my data, and I don’t want to spend money “voting” with my dollar for these data collection devices.
Some of these devices have even been known to look for other similar devices within WiFi range, and phone home that way (i.e., send analytics data via a neighbor’s connected TV as a proxy).
Fuuuck that. I don’t want my dollar supporting this, at all, plain and simple. And I don’t want to pay a premium for the privilege of buying a technically simpler device. I do, but it’s bullshit, and I’m unhappy about it.
dan
in reply to Photuris • • •Null User Object
in reply to Photuris • • •Ummm, wut? I'm going to need some quality sources to back this claim up.
BassTurd
in reply to Null User Object • • •Yea, this paragraph feels like fear mongering. I'm not saying OP didn't see that somewhere, but from a tech standpoint, the TV still has to authenticate with any device it's trying to piggy back off the wifi for. Perhaps if there were any open network in range it could theoretically happen, but I'm guessing that it's not.
I do remember reading that some smart TV was able to use the speakers as a mic to record in room audio and pass that out if connected. It may have been a theoretical thing but it might have been a zero day I read about. It's been some years now.
shortwavesurfer
in reply to BassTurd • • •Actually, it's true. Amazon's sidewalk works in a similar way, where if the sensor is not connected to the internet, it will talk to local Echo devices like your speakers that are connected to the internet and pass the data to Amazon through your device's network.
TVs will look for open Wi-Fi networks. And failing that, they could very well do this exact same thing.
Edit: The way it works is that the echo devices contain a separate radio that works over the 868 to 915 megahertz industrial scientific and medical band, so the sensor communicates with your echo that way, and then your echo communicates it to the network as if it's coming from the echo itself, not another device. So the sensor gets connected to the network without your network realizing that it's actually a third-party device. To your network, the only thing it sees is the Echo, but to the Echo, it sees both your network, which it's connected to, and the sensor, so it's acting as a relay.
BassTurd
in reply to shortwavesurfer • • •I forgot the Sidewalk is a thing. While that tech does kind of do what OP was saying, Sidewalk is limited to only Amazon Sidewalk compatible devices, like the echo line and ring. Just at a quick glance, there are no smart TVs that can connect to that network.
That said, it is an opt out service, which it awful. No smart TVs will connect, but I'd recommend disabling for anyone that uses Amazon devices.
shortwavesurfer
in reply to BassTurd • • •olympicyes
in reply to Photuris • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to Photuris • • •vithigar
in reply to Photuris • • •For what it's worth you're actually spending the manufacturer's money (or at least some of their profit margin) on a data collection device that they won't get to use.
Smart devices are cheaper because the data collection subsidizes them.
lengau
in reply to Photuris • • •ccunix
in reply to Photuris • • •They are called "Digital Signage Panels" and they cost an arm and a leg.
The data collection subsidises the cost of your TV, so that brings the cost down. Also, digital signage panels are rated for 24/7 use, which significantly increases their cost.
KyuubiNoKitsune
in reply to Photuris • • •Gerudo
in reply to KyuubiNoKitsune • • •_g_be
in reply to Gerudo • • •katy ✨
in reply to Photuris • • •IphtashuFitz
in reply to Photuris • • •olympicyes
in reply to Photuris • • •SocialMediaRefugee
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •iopq
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •afk_strats
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I haven't seen this mentioned but apart from 8K being expensive, requiring new production pipelines, unweildley for storage and bandwidth, unneeded, and not fixing g existing problems with 4K, it requires MASSIVE screens to reap benefits.
There are several similar posts, but suffice to say, 8K content is only perceived by average eyesight at living room distances when screens are OVER 100 inches in diameter at the bare minimum. That's 7 feet wide.
Source: rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/…
TV Size To Distance Calculator (And The Science Behind It)
RTINGS.comThorry
in reply to afk_strats • • •Tell me Legolas, what do your elven eyes see?
Fucking pixels Aragorn, it makes me want to puke. And what the fuck is up with these compression artifacts? What tier of Netflix do you have?
Sorry Legolas, could we just enjoy the movie?
Maybe if the dwarf stops stinking up the place. And don't think I didn't see him take that last chicken wing, fucking dwarves.
katy ✨
in reply to afk_strats • • •snugglesthefalse
in reply to afk_strats • • •PalmTreeIsBestTree
in reply to afk_strats • • •Buddahriffic
in reply to afk_strats • • •Not sure where 1440p would land, but after using one for a while, I was going to upgrade my monitor to 4k but realized I'm not disappointed with my current resolution at all and instead opted for a 1440p ultrawide and haven't regretted it at all.
My TV is 4k, but I have no intention of even seriously looking at anything 8k.
Screen specs seem like a mostly solved problem. Would be great if focus could shift to efficiency improvements instead of adding more unnecessary power. Actually, boot time could be way better, too (ie get rid of the smart shit running on a weak processor, emphasis on the first part).
FreedomAdvocate
in reply to afk_strats • • •65-75" tv's are pretty much the standard these days. I've got a 75" and I'll want the next one I replace it with to be even bigger, so 100"-ish will be what I'll be after.
czardestructo
in reply to FreedomAdvocate • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to czardestructo • • •Lumisal
in reply to FreedomAdvocate • • •I like a big screen for gaming too, but just wanted to mention it also means you'll do worse at games. You can look it up, but a smaller screen gives you better performance, because your brain can properly see everything that's happening on screen at once.
Unless your screen is significantly far away that is.
FreedomAdvocate
in reply to Lumisal • • •Lumisal
in reply to FreedomAdvocate • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to Lumisal • • •Lumisal
in reply to FreedomAdvocate • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to Lumisal • • •I’ve got a quest 2, but no I don’t want to wear a headset.
2m is a long way away from a tv.
vane
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •CallMeAnAI
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •snugglesthefalse
in reply to CallMeAnAI • • •kylian0087
in reply to snugglesthefalse • • •katy ✨
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •arin
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •tomkatt
in reply to arin • • •handsoffmydata
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Zorque
in reply to handsoffmydata • • •LousyCornMuffins
in reply to Zorque • • •Zorque
in reply to LousyCornMuffins • • •LousyCornMuffins
in reply to Zorque • • •cmnybo
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Prox
in reply to cmnybo • • •Blu-ray, Blu-ray Movies, Blu-ray Players, Blu-ray Reviews
www.blu-ray.comcmnybo
in reply to Prox • • •gnuplusmatt
in reply to cmnybo • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to gnuplusmatt • • •CmdrShepard49
in reply to cmnybo • • •Laser
in reply to CmdrShepard49 • • •snugglesthefalse
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to snugglesthefalse • • •Pope-King Joe
in reply to FreedomAdvocate • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to Pope-King Joe • • •bitjunkie
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •tomkatt
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I mostly use my TV for gaming and watching old movies and anime.
The former task will be unviable at 8k and make my GPU cry, and the latter one makes 8k unnecessary.
I really don’t see the point in 8k displays right now.
🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •MattTheProgrammer
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •suicidaleggroll
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •HakunaHafada
in reply to suicidaleggroll • • •MangoPenguin
in reply to HakunaHafada • • •HakunaHafada
in reply to MangoPenguin • • •The Olympics is being streamed in 8K – but it's kind of a secret
Tom May (Digital Camera World)BurgerBaron
in reply to suicidaleggroll • • •FreedomAdvocate
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •MonkderVierte
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to MonkderVierte • • •Solitaire20X6
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Most Americans are out of money and can't find good jobs. We are clinging to our old TVs and cars and computers and etc. for dear life, as we hope for better days.
And what can you even watch in true 8K right now? Some YouTube videos?
lengau
in reply to Solitaire20X6 • • •If I were in the market for a new monitor and I could get an 8k monitor for under $1000 I'd consider it, but right now if one of my monitors broke I'd just be getting another 4k to replace it. The price isn't worth it for me to have high DPI.
For TV my only justification for my 4k TV is that it was free.
ScoffingLizard
in reply to Solitaire20X6 • • •LemmyThinkAboutIt
in reply to ScoffingLizard • • •pastermil
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •SaharaMaleikuhm
in reply to pastermil • • •Steve Dice
in reply to pastermil • • •pHr34kY
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •It creates more problems than it solves. You would need an order of magnitude more processing power to play a game on it. Personally I would prefer 4K at a higher framerate. Even 1080 if it improves response.
Video in 8K are massive. You need better codecs to handle them, and they aren't that widely supported. Storage is more expensive than it was a decade ago.
Also, there is no content. Nobody wants to store and transmit such massive amounts of data over the internet.
HDMI cables will fail sooner at higher resolutions. That 5 year old cable will begin dropping out when you try it at 8k.
4K is barely worth the tradeoffs.
Hazzard
in reply to pHr34kY • • •Yeah, legitimate 8K use cases are ridiculously niche, and I mean... really only have value if you're talking about an utterly massive display, probably around 90 inches or larger, and even then in a pretty small room.
The best use cases I can think of are for games where you're already using DLSS, and can just upscale from the same source resolution to 8K rather than 4K? Maybe something like an advanced CRT filter that can better emulate a real CRT with more resolution to work with, where a pixel art game leaves you with lots of headroom for that effect? Maybe there's value in something like an emulated split screen game, to effectively give 4 players their own 4K TV in an N64 game or something?
But uh... yeah, all use cases that are far from the average consumer. Most people I talk to don't even really appreciate 1080p->4K, and 4X-ing your resolution again is a massive processing power ask in a world where you can't just... throw together multiple GPUs in SLI or something. Even if money is no object, 8K in mainline gaming will require some ugly tradeoffs for the next several years, and probably even forever if devs keep pushing visuals and targeting upscaled 4K 30/60 on the latest consoles.
addie
in reply to Hazzard • • •4K for me as a developer means that I can have a couple of source files and a browser with the API documentation open at the same time. I reckon I could use legitimately use an 8K screen - get a terminal window or two open as well, keep an eye on builds and deployments while I'm working on a ticket.
Now yes - gaming and watching video at 8K. That's phenomenally niche, and very much a case of diminishing returns. But some of us have to work for a living as well, alas, and would like them pixels.
pHr34kY
in reply to addie • • •Even as a dev, I use a 32" QHD screen for programming. If I went 4K, I would need to use 150% scaling, and that breaks a LOT of stuff.
Everything is built for 100% scaling. Every time I've plugged my PC into a 4K display I've regretted it. It go to 30Hz (on HDMI) or glitch out or something. Even if it doesn't, it's never as smooth.
fuzzzerd
in reply to pHr34kY • • •Hazzard
in reply to addie • • •Illecors
in reply to pHr34kY • • •A couple things - every jump like that in resolution is about a 10% increase in size at the source level. So 2K is ~250GB, 4K is ~275GB. Haven't had to deal with 8K myself, yet, but it would be at ~300GB. And then you compress all that for placea like netflix and the size goes down drastically. Add to that codec improvements over time (like x264 -> x265) and you might actually end up with an identical size compressed while carrying 4x more pixels.
HDMI is digital. It doesn't start failing because of increased bandwidth; there's nothing consumable. It either works or it doesn't.
M0oP0o
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Oh but what if it was in 3D!
Remember that time?
Laser
in reply to M0oP0o • • •glibg
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Dr. Moose
in reply to glibg • • •altphoto
in reply to Dr. Moose • • •Dr. Moose
in reply to altphoto • • •CmdrShepard49
in reply to glibg • • •HugeNerd
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •So many things have reached not only diminishing returns, but no returns whatsoever. I don't have a single problem that more technology will solve.
I just don't care about any of this technical shit anymore. I only have two eyes, and there's only 24 hours in a day. I already have enough entertainment in perfectly acceptable quality, with my nearly 15 year old setup.
I've tapped out from the tech scene.
shortwavesurfer
in reply to HugeNerd • • •I've hit that same wall. I'm perfectly happy with a $300 smartphone, because it does absolutely everything I need to do, fast enough to not make me want to throw it across the room, and well enough that I don't notice the difference between it and a high-end device.
Do I notice the difference after three or four years of having the device and finally upgrading it to a new device in that price range? Sure, I notice it. But day to day use, I don't notice it and that's what matters.
HugeNerd
in reply to shortwavesurfer • • •I don't understand most of the things I used to enjoy as a kid. I went from radio to cassette to CD to MiniDisc to MP3s. Now I'm supposed to endlessly change things around to keep up with media players and codecs and whatevers. No thanks.
I used to enjoy programming and tinkering with computers and microcontrollers.
Now I have to be an expert in 15 unrelated fields and softwares because even a simple job of turning a button press into a single output pulse is a weeks-long nightmare of IDEs and OSes and embedded Linuxes and 32 bit microcontrollers and environments, none of which are clear and straightforward, and all have subtle inter-dependencies.
So to turn on a LED with a switch now requires a multi-core 16GB main PC (so limited! You need more!) so I can open a multi-GB IDE (that can support every language ever invented) that requires an SSD just to be able to navigate the 35 windows it opens in less than an hour, so I can use AI to copy-paste hundreds of lines of boiler plate code I don't understand, so I can type a few lines of code?
And that's not counting all the new companies and architectures.
CriticalMiss
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Perspectivist
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •InFerNo
in reply to Perspectivist • • •Munkisquisher
in reply to Perspectivist • • •elucubra
in reply to Perspectivist • • •InFerNo
in reply to elucubra • • •dickalan
in reply to Perspectivist • • •Perspectivist
in reply to dickalan • • •Even my smartphone doesn't have OLED display.
If I was in the market for a new TV I'd probably go for an OLED assuming image burn-in is no longer an issue with them, but I'll happily use my 15 year old LED TV for as long as it lasts. I can tell the difference in contrast when side by side with LED/LCD but in normal daily use I don't pay any attention to it.
willington
in reply to Perspectivist • • •fading_person
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •lechekaflan
in reply to fading_person • • •richardmtanguay
in reply to fading_person • • •Chronographs
in reply to richardmtanguay • • •elucubra
in reply to fading_person • • •I have 2 4K tvs, one used as a monitor. I'm now rewatching some 70's - 80's shows. When the intro starts, I'm acutely aware of the low res, but as soon as the show starts, I get into the content, and I really don't notice the resolution.
If you focus on the resolution instead of the content, maybe the content is not that engaging.
Rooty
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •kylian0087
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •glitch1985
in reply to kylian0087 • • •VintageGenious
in reply to kylian0087 • • •SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to VintageGenious • • •Don_alForno
in reply to kylian0087 • • •GreatAlbatross
in reply to kylian0087 • • •I run an Apple TV (shock, walled garden!), as it is the only device I've seen that consistently matches frame rates properly on the output.
winni
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •rezad
in reply to winni • • •maybe that was the remastering process issues.
also maybe 4k movies are not actually 4ks and are AI upscalers from actual 2k masters.
- YouTube
www.youtube.comComradeSharkfucker
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Rose
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker • • •elucubra
in reply to Rose • • •Sunflier
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker • • •☂️-
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •i can't tell the difference between 1080 and 4k at the distance i use it. let alone 8k.
we already have nice enough tvs. what about you guys focus on healthcare and shit now?
filcuk
in reply to ☂️- • • •☂️-
in reply to filcuk • • •how would that be?
could you tell 1080p vs 4k screens apart from, say, a distance of 5m?
Obi
in reply to ☂️- • • •☂️-
in reply to Obi • • •money in our economies is directed in the order of their priority.
developing tv tech seem to be taking precedence over other more important stuff.
nutsack
in reply to ☂️- • • •majster
in reply to ☂️- • • •☂️-
in reply to majster • • •majster
in reply to ☂️- • • •☂️-
in reply to majster • • •SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to majster • • •SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to ☂️- • • •☂️-
in reply to SaveTheTuaHawk • • •Blackmist
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Yeah, no shit. The only possible use is gaming, and even PC owners have been upscaling for some time now.
The only case where you might even notice a difference by going to 8K resolution is high end VR, but that's no reason to have 8K in a TV.
Even 4K is overkill for most movies. The HDR is the selling point there, which I'll admit looks nice.
sunbeam60
in reply to Blackmist • • •Blackmist
in reply to sunbeam60 • • •sunbeam60
in reply to Blackmist • • •trougnouf
in reply to Blackmist • • •Obi
in reply to trougnouf • • •trougnouf
in reply to Obi • • •Obi
in reply to trougnouf • • •FinishingDutch
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Not exactly surprising, considering the TV’s and monitors are outpacing the contemt creators and gaming development.
A lot of gamers don’t even have GPU’s that can crank out 4K at the frame rates most monitors are capable of. So 8K won’t do much for you. And movies and regular TV? Man, I’m happy there’s 4K available.
A 4K screen will be more than most folks need right now, so buying an 8K at the moment is just wasted money. Like buying a Ferrari and only ever driving 25 mph.
like this
melroy likes this.
melroy
in reply to FinishingDutch • • •TBi
in reply to FinishingDutch • • •Also I think the improvements in HDR and brightness recently are more substantial than the update to 8K. At normal viewing TV distance you’d be hard pressed to see the individual pixels, even on a 1080p screen.
Even for PCs there isn’t much reason to go about 2k screens (1440p).
HugeNerd
in reply to TBi • • •GreatAlbatross
in reply to TBi • • •This is why I often refer to 4K as UHD: The WCG and HDR being available to consumers is far more impactful than end users having a few more pixels.
(Also because I'm a snarky pedant, and consumer 4K UHD is only 3840 wide, while DCI4K is actually 4096)
odelik
in reply to TBi • • •TBi
in reply to odelik • • •odelik
in reply to TBi • • •Screen space.
I work in tech doing performance, memory management, and developer workflow tooling and automation for a large 3D Rendering/Creation tool.
Being able to throw a long setup doc, or a large class file on a 4k portrait monitor allows me to read things through with a ton of context and far less scrolling.
It's also useful for putting two window tiles that have related content, or one is a reference content.
I currently have a tie-fighter monitor setup (2x4k portrait on either side of a ultrawide) and will put comms and email/calendar on my left monitor, core work in the center, and overflow reference/research on the right.
It's less hectic for personal use, but I still use all the space.
vacuumflower
in reply to FinishingDutch • • •It's just a race. Perhaps you don't need the biggest and newest available thing, but you also will subconsciously discard what's "less" than what you already have or what's normal as obsolete. This creates an engine for a race, where good faith players can't compete.
Like with web browsers, a hypertext networked system even with advanced formatting, executable content and sandboxing can be so simple, that there'd be hundreds of independent implementations. But if you always race the de-facto standards with the speed you the monopolist group can maintain, and good faith competitors can't, then you'll always be the "best".
The Matrix movie actually talks about that, with its "there's no spoon" moment. It's not a usual market game, it's a meta-market game. And most people don't understand the rules of the meta layer, being sitting ducks there.
Nobody can compete with the industry leaders on their field. And unlike with steel or gasoline or even embedded electronics production, there's no relativity in the field at all. But the new possible fields are endless. Everyone can discover new pastures here, because it's not discovery, it's conception. But since that's counterintuitive, and the network effects work on psychology too, most people are not trying.
It's a bit like military logic, there were Western "controlled escalation" doctrines, because slow gradual escalation works in favor of the side with most resources, thus the West, and the Soviet "scientific-technical revolution" doctrines, which despite sounding stupid is a correct name, when you're the second in the race, your best chance lies in being unpredictable, unreasonable and changing the rules. One of the reasons Soviet doctrines gained such a crappy reputation as compared to Western ones is that, well, they are kinda similar to preventively going all out guns-a-blazing before you are forced to fight by the enemy's rules, which requires willpower from those making the decisions (and also capability to, well, do anything scientific and technical, LOL), and which means you prepare for some sort of general battle (that be nuclear war, or short highly concentrated offensives, such stuff) at the expense of "aggressive negotiations" scenarios. So - in our time anyone trying to heal the Silicon Valley's effects is playing USSR and can only expect anything good from breaking rules.
HugeNerd
in reply to vacuumflower • • •SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to FinishingDutch • • •they will just use a shitty upscale algorithm.
You don't sell performance to people, you sell numbers.
Coskii
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I hear anything at or above 8k resolution negates the need for anti aliasing entirely... But I feel that my pc would would be running at or around 10-15 fps for most games I would care about anti aliasing on.
Nice in theory, definitely can't handle that many pixels in reality.
ඞmir
in reply to Coskii • • •Korhaka
in reply to Coskii • • •SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to Korhaka • • •Sunflier
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •yogurtwrong
in reply to Sunflier • • •Why would the medical field need 8k screens? They can just zoom in on a lower res display y'know? Nobody is looking at a screen with a magnifying glass
I think a possible application for 8k displays is the huge displays where the viewer is extremely close to the display. But that would still just be the same pixel density as a lower res display.
Another area I think high pixel density might be useful for is patterning. Like PCB manufacturing and other photoresist stuff. But that's a problem already solved by much cheaper technologies
Sunflier
in reply to yogurtwrong • • •I'd rather the doctor performing life-saving surgery not have screen resolution being an inhibition. I'd rather they have the best tools and resources available.
yogurtwrong
in reply to Sunflier • • •Oh come on most doctors still view stuff like scans on 720p VGA screens. It's fine. High resolution imaging is important not hi res viewers.
This is like saying you need to have a 128k screen to view electron microscope images
HugeNerd
in reply to yogurtwrong • • •Please don't get in the way of technophiles inventing all kinds of fantasy scenarios to justify their hoarder-like behavior.
Sunflier
in reply to yogurtwrong • • •You're probably right in like 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% of cases, but I'd want to ensure we could save that extra 0.000000000000000000000000000000001%. I'd sacrifice anything and everything for just one more day with my loved ones. So, its probably overkill, but I'd rather screen resolution not being the thing that costs me time with those I care about.
SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to Sunflier • • •ForeverComical
in reply to Sunflier • • •vacuumflower
in reply to Sunflier • • •Sunflier
in reply to vacuumflower • • •Showroom7561
in reply to Sunflier • • •HugeNerd
in reply to Sunflier • • •Yikes, if you're trying to put a "stint" into someone's heart, imaging is the least of your worries.
Solution: use a stent.
Sunflier
in reply to HugeNerd • • •HugeNerd
in reply to Sunflier • • •Sunflier
in reply to HugeNerd • • •HugeNerd
in reply to Sunflier • • •Your attitude is why we end up with antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Do you also drive a tank to the grocery store in case of a fender bender?
SparroHawc
in reply to Sunflier • • •flop_leash_973
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Another possibility for why consumers don't seem to care about 8k is the common practice by content owners and streaming services charging more for access to 4k over 1080p.
Normalizing that practice invites the consumer to more closely scrutinize the probable cost of something better than 4k compared to the probable return.
downvote_hunter
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to downvote_hunter • • •downvote_hunter
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to downvote_hunter • • •Yeah, I appreciated the joke.
I just wanted to make the point that the difference between 1080p and 4k isn't massive, so the extra pixels w/ 8k likewise won't be massive. Going from standard def (480i/p?) to HD was a huge jump, and even 720p to 1080p is a big improvement, but going from 1080p to 4k isn't nearly as big of a leap. We're well into diminishing returns.
downvote_hunter
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •pogmommy
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to pogmommy • • •Sure. I'm more talking about TVs though, where things like cinematography and HDR are much more important than resolution. 1080p is more than sufficient for that, and 4k content is sometimes hard to find.
I personally find having two monitors more useful than one higher-resolution monitor, though ultrawide monitors are also nice (have one at work). The vertical resolution isn't a big deal for me, since I mostly care about tiling windows next to each other.
OozingPositron
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •Konstant
in reply to downvote_hunter • • •Showroom7561
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •The difference between 1080 and 4K is pretty visible, but the difference between 4K and 8K, especially from across a room, is so negligible that it might as well be placebo.
Also the fact that 8K content takes up a fuckload more storage space. So, there's that, too.
sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to Showroom7561 • • •Showroom7561
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •I find that it really depends on the content on the size of the display.
The larger the display, the more you'd benefit from having a higher resolution.
For instance, a good quality 1080p stream vs a highly compressed 4k stream probably won't look much different. But a "raw" 4k stream looks incredible... think of the demos you see in stores showing off 4k TVs... that quality is noticeable.
Put the same content on a 50"+ screen, and you'll see the difference.
When I had Netflix, watching in 4k was great, but to me, having HDR is "better".
On a computer monitor, there's a case for high-resolution displays because they allow you to fit more on the screen without making the content look blurry. But on a TV, 4k + HDR is pretty much peak viewing for most people.
That's not to say that if you create content, 8k is useless. It can be really handy when cropping or re-framing if needed, assuming the desired output is less than 8k.
sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to Showroom7561 • • •Sure. But remember that much of the time, the content is tuned for what the display is good at, which won't necessarily reflect what you want to watch on it (i.e. they're often bright colors with frequent color changes, whereas many movies are dark with many slow parts). At least at the start, many 4k TVs had a worse picture than higher end 1080p TVs, and that's before HDR was really a thing.
So yeah, it highly depends on the content. As you mentioned, in many cases, 1080p HDR will be better than 4k non-HDR. Obviously 4k HDR on a good display is better than 1080p HDR on a good display, but the difference is much less than many people claim it to be, especially at a typical TV viewing distance (in our case, 10-15 ft/3-5m).
I find the sweet spot to be 1440p. 4k is nicer, but the improvement over 1440p is much less than 1440p vs 1080p. My desktop monitor is a 27" 1440p monitor w/ approx 109 ppi, and my work laptop is a Macbook Pro w/ 3024x1964 resolution w/ approx 254 ppi, more than double. And honestly, they're comparable. Text and whatnot is certainly sharper on the nicer display, but there are certainly diminishing returns.
That said, if I were to watch movies frequently on my computer, I'd prefer a larger 4k monitor so 1080p content upscales better. But for games and normal computer stuff, 1440p is plenty.
Given that I don't find a ton of value in 4k over 1080p, 8k will be even more underwhelming.
SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to Showroom7561 • • •Because stores use a high quality feed and force you to stand withing 4ft of the display. There is a whole science to how Best Buy manipulates TV sales. They will not let you adjust TV picture settings on lower margin TVs.
Showroom7561
in reply to SaveTheTuaHawk • • •Yes, obviously, and consumers who are buying such high-end displays should do their best to provide the highest quality source to play back on those displays.
Distance from the display is important, too. On a small TV, you'll be close to it, but resolution won't matter as much.
But from across the room, you want a higher resolution display up to a certain point, or else you'll see large pixels, and that looks terrible.
Personally, going with a 4k TV was a big leap, but the addition of HDR and an OLED display (for black blacks) had the most impact.
SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to SaveTheTuaHawk • • •True. Our TV is 10-15 ft/3-5m away on a ~60in screen, and at that distance, the difference is noticable, but not significant. We have a 40" screen with much closer viewing distance (usually 5-8 ft/~2m), and we definitely notice the difference there.
If I was watching movies at a desk w/ a computer monitor, I'd certainly notice 1080p vs 4k, provided the screen is large enough. In our living room with the couch much further from the screen, the difference is much less important.
SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to Showroom7561 • • •ouRKaoS
in reply to SaveTheTuaHawk • • •Squizzy
in reply to ouRKaoS • • •mojofrododojo
in reply to SaveTheTuaHawk • • •Arcane2077
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •arararagi
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •happydoors
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Natanael
in reply to happydoors • • •The same argument goes for audio too.
6K and 8K is great for editing, just like how 96 KHz 32+ bit and above is great for editing. But it's meaningless for watching and listening (especially for audio, you can't hear the difference above 44khz 16 bit). When editing you'll often stack up small artifacts, which can be audible or visible if editing at the final resolution but easy to smooth over if you're editing at higher resolutions.
obsoleteacct
in reply to happydoors • • •Imagine you're finishing in 8k, so you want to shoot higher resolution to give yourself some options in reframing and cropping? I don't think Red, Arri, or Panavision even makes a cinema camera with a resolution over 8k. I think Arri is still 4k max. You'd pretty much be limited to Blackmagic cameras for 12k production today.
Plus the storage requirements for keeping raw footage in redundancy. Easy enough for a studio, but we're YEARS from 8k being a practical resolution for most filmmakers.
My guess is most of the early consumer 8k content will be really shoddy AI upscaled content that can be rushed to market from film scans.
happydoors
in reply to obsoleteacct • • •mojofrododojo
in reply to obsoleteacct • • •Hupf
in reply to happydoors • • •HubertManne
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Ileftreddit
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Inucune
in reply to Ileftreddit • • •tatterdemalion
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •BlackVenom
in reply to tatterdemalion • • •Evotech
in reply to BlackVenom • • •BlackVenom
in reply to Evotech • • •skisnow
in reply to BlackVenom • • •Yeah. Another one for me was Deadpool, because the texture of his outfit actually feels real on the 4K disc in a way that it doesn’t in HD.
Whenever I see people point at math equations “proving” that it’s impossible to tell the difference from a comfortable viewing distance, I think of Deadpool’s contours.
Can I identify the individual pixels in HD? Nope. Does it make a difference? Yes definitely.
BlackVenom
in reply to skisnow • • •sobchak
in reply to tatterdemalion • • •BlackVenom
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Hackworth
in reply to BlackVenom • • •It's such a shame that UHD isn't easier to find. Even the ones you can find are poorly mastered half the time. But a good UHD on an OLED is chef's kiss just about the closest you can get to having a 35mm reel/projector at home.
You are absolutely on point with 4k streaming being a joke. Most 4k streams are 8-20 Mbps. A UHD runs at 128 Mbps.
GamingChairModel
in reply to Hackworth • • •Bitrate is only one variable in overall perceived quality. There are all sorts of tricks that can significantly reduce file size (and thus bitrate of a stream) without a perceptible loss of quality. And somewhat counterintuitively, the compression tricks work a lot better on higher resolution source video, which is why each quadrupling in pixels (doubling height and width) doesn't quadruple file size.
The codec matters (h.264 vs h.265/HEVC vs VP9 vs AV1), and so do the settings actually used to encode. Netflix famously is willing to spend a lot more computational power on encoding, because they have a relatively small number of videos and many, many users watching the same videos. In contrast, YouTube and Facebook don't even bother re-encoding into a more efficient codec like AV1 until a video gets enough views that they think they can make up the cost of additional processing with the savings of lower bandwidth.
Video encoding is a very complex topic, and simple bitrate comparisons only barely scratch the surface in perceived quality.
oatscoop
in reply to BlackVenom • • •Seriously though, quality 4k media is hard to find outside of ... "finding it" on the internet.
LiveLM
in reply to oatscoop • • •BurgerBaron
in reply to LiveLM • • •BlackVenom
in reply to oatscoop • • •Trainguyrom
in reply to oatscoop • • •BanMe
in reply to BlackVenom • • •Kinokoloko
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •JcbAzPx
in reply to Kinokoloko • • •Oderus
in reply to JcbAzPx • • •driving_crooner
in reply to JcbAzPx • • •n1ckn4m3
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •As someone who stupidly spent the last 20 or so years chasing the bleeding edge of TVs and A/V equipment, GOOD.
High end A/V is an absolute shitshow. No matter how much you spend on a TV, receiver, or projector, it will always have some stupid gotcha, terrible software, ad-laden interface, HDMI handshaking issue, HDR color problem, HFR sync problem or CEC fight. Every new standard (HDR10 vs HDR10+, Dolby Vision vs Dolby Vision 2) inherently comes with its own set of problems and issues and its own set of "time to get a new HDMI cable that looks exactly like the old one but works differently, if it works as advertised at all".
I miss the 90s when the answer was "buy big chonky square CRT, plug in with component cables, be happy".
Now you can buy a $15,000 4k VRR/HFR HDR TV, an $8,000 4k VRR/HFR/HDR receiver, and still somehow have them fight with each other all the fucking time and never work.
8K was a solution in search of a problem. Even when I was 20 and still had good eyesight, sitting 6 inches from a 90 inch TV I'm certain the difference between 4k and 8k would be barely noticeable.
goatinspace
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •boonhet
in reply to goatinspace • • •goatinspace
in reply to boonhet • • •boonhet
in reply to goatinspace • • •DarkSideOfTheMoon
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •Even 4K the content is not yet easily available . I mean except from AppleTV plus that all content is 4K and it’s part of basic subscription, every other streaming charges much more for 4K content, most people don’t want to pay more every month for 4K
So 8K is just a distant reality that content makers are not really wanting to happen
MDCCCLV
in reply to DarkSideOfTheMoon • • •DarkSideOfTheMoon
in reply to MDCCCLV • • •Liz
in reply to DarkSideOfTheMoon • • •🍉 Albert 🍉
in reply to DarkSideOfTheMoon • • •4k is really cheap now.
having said that, I have a4k TV and practically only use 1080p for everything.
videogames? performance mode
movies/tv/YouTube? 1080p for better buffering.
skisnow
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I hate the wording of the headline, because it makes it sound like the consumers' fault that the industry isn't delivering on something they promised. It's like marketing a fusion-powered sex robot that's missing the power core, and turning around and saying "nobody wants fusion-powered sex robots".
Side note, I'd like for people to stop insisting that 60fps looks "cheap", so that we can start getting good 60fps content. Heck, at this stage I'd be willing to compromise at 48fps if it gets more directors on board. We've got the camera sensor technology in 2025 for this to work in the same lighting that we used to need for 24fps, so that excuse has flown.
ftbd
in reply to skisnow • • •Kazumara
in reply to ftbd • • •Liz
in reply to Kazumara • • •Yeah, I love when the camera pans slowly and everything is a blurry mess. Pure cinematic excellence.
angrystego
in reply to Liz • • •skisnow
in reply to angrystego • • •angrystego
in reply to skisnow • • •skisnow
in reply to angrystego • • •skisnow
in reply to Kazumara • • •pulsewidth
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •The consumer has spoken and they don't care, not even for 4K. Same as happened with 3D and curved TVs, 8K is a solution looking for a problem so that more TVs get sold.
In terms of physical media - at stores in Australia the 4K section for Blurays takes up a single rack of shelves. Standard Blurays and DVDs take up about 20.
Even DVDs still sell well because many consumers don't see a big difference in quality, and certainly not enough to justify the added cost of Bluray, let alone 4K editions. A current example, Superman is $20 on DVD, $30 on Bluray (50% cost increase) or $40 on 4K (100%) cost increase. Streaming services have similar pricing curves for increased fidelity.
It sucks for fans of high res, but it's the reality of the market. 4K will be more popular in the future if and when it becomes cheaper, and until then nobody (figuratively) will give a hoot about 8K.
weew
in reply to pulsewidth • • •Some of the smaller 4k sets work as an XXL computer monitor
But for a living room tv, you seriously need space for a 120"+ set to actually see any benefit of 8k. Most people don't even have the physical space for that
bufalo1973
in reply to pulsewidth • • •sixty
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •eleitl
in reply to sixty • • •sixty
in reply to eleitl • • •Rcklsabndn
in reply to sixty • • •Routhinator
in reply to eleitl • • •Blackmist
in reply to Routhinator • • •Sounds like you have motion smoothing on.
Resolution alone isn't enough to fuck that up. I noticed it first when watching The Hobbit in cinemas at 48fps. It makes things that are real look very real, and unfortunately what was real was Martin Freeman wearing rubber feet.
Routhinator
in reply to Blackmist • • •🤣🤣🤣
Ok, good tip. I'll try that out and see if I can enjoy it more.
Trainguyrom
in reply to Routhinator • • •aceshigh
in reply to sixty • • •kautau
in reply to sixty • • •TV and movies I'm totally good with 1080p. If I want a cinematic experience, that's what the cinema is for.
But since switching to PC and gaming in 4k everywhere I can, it feels like a night and day difference to play in 1080p. Granted that means I care about monitor resolution rather than TV resolution.
But as an aside, as a software engineer that works from home, crisp text, decent color spectrum support, good brightness in a bright room, all things that make your day a whole lot better when you stare at a computer screen for a large chunk of your day
Olgratin_Magmatoe
in reply to sixty • • •freewillypete
in reply to sixty • • •Samuelwankenobi
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •simsalabim
in reply to Samuelwankenobi • • •TeddE
in reply to Samuelwankenobi • • •Computer monitor with multiple simultaneous 4k displays?
Grasping at straws here
FosterMolasses
in reply to Samuelwankenobi • • •Wispy2891
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •bufalo1973
in reply to Wispy2891 • • •Wispy2891
in reply to bufalo1973 • • •Somehow when it's called a "monitor" it quadruples the price.
I can't really accept that a basic 4k 27" monitor without even speakers costs the same of a 4k 65" TV with HDR, deeper blacks, WiFi and it even comes bundled with dozens of spyware for added convenience
fuzzywombat
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •What's your opinion on using 8K TV as a monitor?
daniel.lawrence.lu/blog/y2023m…
Using an 8K TV as a monitor
daniel.lawrence.luWolf
in reply to TheImpressiveX • • •I would love to have an 8K TV or monitor if I had an internet connection up to the task and enough content in 8K to make it worth it, or If I had a PC powerful enough to run games smoothly in that resolution.
I think it's silly to say 'nobody wants this' when the infrastructure for it isn't even close to adequate.
I will admit that there is diminishing returns now, going from 4K to 8K was less impressive than FHD to 4K and I imagine that 8K will probably be where it stops, at least for anything that can reasonably fit in a house.