Please don’t succumb to hopelessness over Palestine. Your voice can still make a difference | Arwa Mahdawi
Tue 2 Sep 2025 11.20 EDT
As a British Palestinian, I urge you to keep (or start!) speaking up for Gaza and Palestinians. The situation in Gaza and the West Bank gets worse daily. But please do not succumb to hopelessness or assume that you are powerless to change things. While it may seem like nothing will shame politicians into meaningfully upholding international human rights law, your voice does make a difference. Writing to your MP; protesting; donating; supporting the Freedom Flotilla Coalition; advocating online; boycotting companies such as Airbnb which profit from illegal settlements. These sorts of things do make a difference.~~___~~
Please don’t succumb to hopelessness over Palestine. Your voice can still make a difference
As the war gets livestreamed to our phones, it is easy to be overwhelmed and feel helpless. But even small acts of activism add up, writes Arwa MahdawiArwa Mahdawi (The Guardian)
We finally know what turns cats into tabbies
We finally know what turns cats into tabbies
The gene that causes the iconic stripes of tabby cats has finally been discovered, by studying the skin of kittens in the womb.PopSci Team (Popular Science)
Misinformation, fear and politics – how a South Dakota county drove away millions in solar energy
Colton Berens was looking forward to the added income from his farm, but armed with rightwing falsehoods, other Selby residents opposed the move
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Conspiracy YouTubers
[YouTube thumbnail showing a person doing the soy face while pointing at a map of the world linking a Moai from Rapa Nui with the Albanian flag]
EASTER ISLAND 8 ALBANIA CONNECTION?!?!!!
What Historians Don't Want You To Know About Albania
132k views - 8 months ago
CONSPIRACISTORY
The TRUTH is too dangerous to be known but I am willing to share it with you, know more by subscribing to SmugVPN over at ht…
[the conspiracy YouTuber, looking shaken and paranoid, is now talking into his mic]
EASTER ISLAND AND ALBANIA
TWO CIVILIZATIONS
NEVER IN CONTACT
BUT IF YOU LOOK ON A MAP...
YOU CAN DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE BETWEEN BOTH LOCATIONS !!
COINCIDENCE?!
[the YouTuber is embedded on a massive depiction of a Moai as the head of the Albanian flag symbol, floating in space, under the hashtag #BELIEVE]
thebad.website/comic/conspirac…
bsky.app/profile/thebad.websit…
Conspiracy YouTubers | The Bad Website
Conspiracy YouTubers - A comic on The Bad WebsiteThe Bad Website
Russia to abolish visas for Chinese citizens — Putin
Russia to abolish visas for Chinese citizens — Putin
Starting from September 15, Chinese authorities will also introduce a visa-free regime for Russian citizens with regular foreign passportsTASS
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Crazy, a competent government embracing socialist ideals would be successful, who would have thunk it! 😁
As the US Empire dies
Never thought i would see the day in my lifetime, but i'm thinking i might actually now!
What is puzzling is the US acts all protectionist and copyrighty, until they want to do business in China, and China says yes come on in we will hold 51% of the business and you sign over your IP. And the greed of getting cheaper products made (to increase profits) has them drooling over the pen as they sign away their IP.
There have been a few big name businesses I've had dealings with whom, for cost reduction, have moved their design, manufacture and assembly to China. The day China decides to block it all that western company has no company* and no product.
- they may exist as a company but nobody in their organization would have the skill or knowledge to redevelop the product, as China just ships final products and doesn't hand over data or tech info.
Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Signal
The Ministry of Communication and Information Technology of Nepal has issued an order requiring all social media platforms to be registered in Nepal.
Based on this, the Nepal Telecommunications Authority (NTA) has instructed all network service providers to deactivate 26 platforms, including Signal, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, YouTube, and others.
To lift the ban and operate legally in Nepal, each platform must:
- Register with the Ministry of Communication and Information Technology.
- Appoint in Nepal:
- A Point of Contact
- A Resident Grievance Handling Officer
- An Officer responsible for monitoring compliance with self-regulation [1]
- Submit an application in the prescribed format along with required documents, as per the Directives on Managing the Use of Social Media Networks (2080 B.S.). [2]
Reference:
[2] Directives for Managing the Use of Social Networks, 2023
Good move of Nepal to ban Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Whatsapp, VK, WeChat, Threads, as well as Facebook, LinkedIn, Facebook Messenger, Pinterest, and Discord.
That said, Mastodon and Signal also being included, is dumb. What Nepal could do better, is that upon visiting one of the banned sites, users are advised to download another, decentralised medium.
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And what happens if the social media platform doesn’t address complaints in the way the government wants?
Would the social media company rather continue making a profit in that country, so censors according to the government, or leave the country entirely?
I worry how resilient Signal can be if enough countries ban it
I don’t think signal devs are just going to sit around crying that signal got banned.
Probably go the route of tor browser and have signed installer distributed amongst multiple mirrors.
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Because Nepal banning social media is so ungodly terrible lol. I'm surprised this is even a thing that was reported on.
Again, go decentralized or go home.
They can attempt to ban the decentralized ones. I wish them good luck, because I don't think they can actually pull it off.
You could pass a ban on air as well, but that doesn't mean there's not gonna be air in your country.
signal.org/android/apk/
Signal Android APK
Advanced users with special needs can download the Signal APK directly here.Signal Messenger
For those people calling for the use of Tor, it's trivial to block Tor and I2P at the ISP level. It's not hard to get lists of relays and just add them to the block list.
You can use shadow socks, but you have to be careful.
We are globally heading into very privacy adverse waters. If they start making ISPs block VPN and piracy suspected sites, we might have to come up with something new to communicate in the open.
We're going to need something that looks like accountably legitimate traffic on the surface, but contains our actual content underneath.
Hiding in plain sight: Introducing WebTunnel | Tor Project
We're celebrating the World Day Against Cyber Censorship by officially announcing WebTunnel, a new type of Tor bridge designed to assist users in heavily censored regions to connect to the Tor network.blog.torproject.org
The authorities run their own web tunnel. The people that connect to it go on a naughty list. Everything it connects to goes on a naughty list.
Wash, rinse, and repeat that in a geodiverse style. Share your IP list with everyone else charged with finding web tunnel. wholesale block all traffic from any node participating. Start with a one day band, move to a one week ban, kick them off the network after that.
While i2p's node DB isn't exactly in the clear. There's not so many of us that you can't getting pretty good picture of where it's running.
China's already doing a really good job at blocking it. The protocol is secure in that you can't tell what anybody is doing on it. And the node DB is only somewhat accessible. But that's nothing a little coordinated espionage won't suss out.
Every ISP throws out a couple of honeypots. You don't allow nodes to stay connected to it for long so everybody keeps refreshing it. They're thinking it's a DDOS. It's distributed fingerprinting.
You throw up a node, record its regular traffic, start up I2P and see who it connects to. F with your netem so they connect, but eventually discard that connection because it's unstable. You get to cycle through a bunch of connections that way. Everybody who sends more than a SQL injection script to it is running I2P. You occasionally dump people off of it. New people try to connect. You dump them off of it. You create a list. That particular list isn't worth much, the spread factor is kind of low on the protocol. But you share your IPs with everyone else that's running honeypots. Or you just throw out a lot of honey pots in a lot of places if you're a state actor. Everybody that hits the list gets logged.
We're heading towards some dystopian shit now. If ISPs get to the point where they're allowed to kick you off for suspicion of shady things, the protocol is baked.
It's nearly impossible to identify the traffic. It's fairly impossible to identify the origin or the destination of things from inside the network. It's difficult to block individual connections from happening you're real time. But, if they manage to make unidentified traffic illegal, it's not that hard to detect that I-2p is happening and kick people off wholesale. Once the list is shared, they could just black-ball the IPs on every ISP for any connection.
The real problem is, I'm having a really hard time finding some protocol or method that wouldn't fall to this. You could easily hide some really low bandwidth stuff stego style in audio or video streaming from person to person, like say, forum traffic, but if you wanted to stop people from moving music and videos back and forth, I don't know that you could hide that traffic through any means.
On the traffic side, I2P isn’t just onion-style routing. It uses garlic routing, where multiple encrypted “cloves” (messages) are bundled together into one garlic message. This kills the simple “one in → one out” traffic correlation trick. Add to that the transports: NTCP2 is indistinguishable from normal TLS over TCP, and SSU2 is UDP with full encryption, padding, and replay protection. From a DPI standpoint, it looks like generic encrypted noise — there’s no clean handshake to match on like with old Tor circuits.
As for blocking, I2P is decentralized. There are no directory authorities to censor, no fixed bridges to burn. Floodfills are chosen dynamically and constantly refreshed, and peers discover new ones automatically. The bigger the network gets, the harder it is to enumerate and blacklist enough routers to make a dent. Censors can try whack-a-mole, but the distribution effect scales against them: more peers in more ASNs across more countries means higher cost to block.
So yes, you can suspect I2P traffic if you really try, but fingerprinting and wholesale blocking don’t scale — the protocol was designed specifically to make both correlation and censorship exponentially harder as adoption grows
Details:
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
The I2P netDB isn’t a single dumpable list like you’re suggesting
I am well aware of the design and structure, you mentioned I said some things there that I clearly didn't say.
So yes, you can suspect I2P traffic if you really try, but fingerprinting and wholesale blocking don’t scale
If I2P is outlawed, and there's a strong possibility we'll see that in our lives, and ISP's are told if they let unchecked traffic through they're responsible for legal ramifications. They'll run enough nodes in enough places and terminate enough end user accounts (at the very least in the US) to make people not want to run it.
I don't care if you can't DPI it. If it's on their network, and they start running peers, they will be able to root people out, not everyone, but they don't need everyone. If the ISP's share their data with each other, making that map isn't all that hard.
The floodfills can be secure and ephemeral AF, but P2P traffic, even packaged through garlic still passes through points that can be seen.
The whole design is supersmart, and from a legal stand point it's solid. But when we lose protections of beyond a reasonable doubt become stripped, they'll tear that network apart user by user until no one wants to chance running it.
It's not about trying to determine if the traffic is i2p or tor by its port or contents. It's about running a copy of the client and logging who it connects to.
When you have nearly limitless funds and servers everywhere already, it becomes a lot easier to insert into the network and start looking around.
Then when you couple that together with a series of corporations that can do that, and they start sharing data.
Then you change the legal landscape so they can just kick you off your internet provision because you are connecting to I2P nodes. It's kind of like entrapment, but legal.
A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace
by John Perry Barlow Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us.Electronic Frontier Foundation
I want you to look around the world political landscape around tech and ask yourself if you think most of these chucklefucks even understand what they actually say. They only care that they won't like it and want it gone and think writing that down on special paper makes it go poof.
I live in a "developed" country and my country past the online safety act and most of the people who did so didn't know what a VPN was. Three previous administrations, The Blair-Brown one, the conservative one, and the latest one, have all floated the idea of banning encryption in some form. Do you really think the Nepali government understand what Mastodon is other maybe "it's a bit like Twitter".
Most people in Nepal with any sort of sense have a VPN to get around this.
I had a quick look at Hamro Patro. It's a Nepali calendar app which features news, horoscopes, exchange rates, radio and podcasts. It is the most popular natively developed app in Nepal basically.
Just to put this into context: Imagine if the American Government banned the NBC app or the British Government banned the Sky News app.
This Company Turns Dashcams into ‘Virtual CCTV Cameras.’ Then Hackers Got In
This Company Turns Dashcams into ‘Virtual CCTV Cameras.’ Then Hackers Got In
A hacker has broken into Nexar, a popular dashcam company that pitches its users’ dashcams as “virtual CCTV cameras” around the world that other people can buy images from, and accessed a database of terabytes of video recordings taken from cameras in drivers’ cars. The videos obtained by the hacker and shared with 404 Media capture people clearly unaware that a third party may be watching or listening in. A parent in a car soothing a baby. A man whistling along to the radio. Another person on a Facetime call. One appears to show a driver heading towards the entrance of the CIA’s headquarters. Other images, which are publicly available in a map that Nexar publishes online, show drivers around sensitive Department of Defense locations.The hacker also found a list of companies and agencies that may have interacted with Nexar’s data business, which sells access to blurred images captured by the cameras and other related data. This can include monitoring the same location captured by Nexar’s cameras over time, and lets clients “explore the physical world and gain insights like never before,” and use its virtual CCTV cameras “to monitor specific points of interest,” according to Nexar’s website.
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Subscribe nowThis Company Turns Dashcams into ‘Virtual CCTV Cameras.’ Then Hackers Got In
A hacker has compromised Nexar, which turns peoples' cars into "virtual CCTV cameras" that organizations can then buy images from. The images include sensitive U.S. military and intelligence facilities.Joseph Cox (404 Media)
Zelensky’s dream is NATO-Russia war – ex-Polish president
Zelensky’s dream is NATO-Russia war – ex-Polish president
Andrzej Duda has said Zelensky pressured him to blame Russia for an errant Ukrainian missile which detonated in PolandRT
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Just keep spreading those lib talking points!
Oh wait
checks instance
ha ha checks out
So why the fuck did Russia need to be the one to start it.
If they thrive on war. Surely they would have been invading russian territory. Rather then sitting and Following the treaties with Russia. That Russia chose to break and invade Ukraine.
It's a fucking stupid argument.
Why recent. Do you think treaties expire when your friends don't like them any more.
They have not been first to break an international treaty they signed since leaving the USSR. Russia broke several when they invaded Ukraine.
Nations that thrive on war tend to invade other nation. They do not wait for other to invade them.
Ukraine was constitutionally and treaty-bound to neutrality. That was one of the conditions for their independence. They violated that condition in 2014 when they decided to become an anti-Russia NATO proxy. They invaded and bombed the Donbass republics which declared independence following an illegal and unconstitutional Nazi coup in 2014. They took away the constitutionally protected status of the Russian language and have systematically repressed its use and persecuted its speakers.
Russia acted strictly according to international law fulfilling their humanitarian obligation to protect the people of the Donbass from genocide, who were under attack and formally requested Russia's assistance according to the legal right to collective self-defense enshrined in article 51 of the UN charter.
So after Russia invaded breaking it's treaty commitment to respect the borders and sovereignty of Ukraine. Ukraine no longer followed it's commitments under the broken treaty.
Yes that is the way things work.
Now maybe Russia should hand back the fucking nuke it got in return for agreeing to respect that soverinty.
Your argument are no more then trollinsh bollocks with zero merit.
The West also pledged to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. They broke that pledge first in 2004 when they instigated the first color revolution in Ukraine, then again when they orchestrated the 2014 coup. Interference in another country's politics is a violation of sovereignty. Everything Russia did followed as a result of that. Ukraine lost its sovereignty in 2014 when it became a NATO-US puppet. There was no sovereignty left for Russia to violate.
Russia had a humanitarian duty to intervene to stop the attack on the Donbass.
Ukraine never had nukes.
Bullshit.
In 1997, the borders of Ukraine were the internationally recognized borders it inherited upon the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, which included its territory from the Black Sea to its borders with Belarus, Russia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Moldova. This was confirmed by the 1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, known as the "Big Treaty," which legally bound Russia to respect Ukraine's existing borders.
So Russia agreed to respect the 1991 borders. Then broke that agreement.
Besides the point. Ukraine only indicated a desire to Join NATO indicating a desire. Even in its constitution is not breaking the agreement. But a act of democratic will.
You are basically arguing.
"Oh it looks to me that Ukraine's population wants to break a treaty we have already proven we will not abide by. We had a right to attack in the past. "
You are talking out your arse and have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about.
Goodbye.
Of course he does, Russia will outlast Ukraine in the long run if NATO countries don't start joining the fight. I don't see how it would be a surprise that he dreams of getting actual help.
Even if Ukraine somehow wins this, the war got to be exhausting and stressful for him and everyone else involved. Getting help, or even just a second enemy for Russia to be distracted by, would be a positive for them no matter where this goes.
I mean, it's positive for both sides. Russia has a war economy now, they NEED to keep going or their economy will collapse. And a war with NATO might get China involved as well on their side, so it's not like Russia would be fucked for sure.
Ukraine isn't a US puppet btw (I assume that's whom you mean with nazis). I do disagree with the nazi claim too, but I'm not going to be able to convince you there, so I'm not going to try either. But Ukraine isn't a US puppet, they literally have to beg the US to help them out. A puppet wouldn't have to ask, as their actions would be in their master's interest in the first place. They'd get full support.
Whether you believe them to be the good or the bad guys, Ukraine is in this of its own volition, not because the US or Europe told them they have to fight.
Ukraine isn't a US puppet btw
I agree, it would be more correct to call them a NATO puppet, or even just a EU puppet at this point.
Either way, they are a puppet.
Colombia coal exports plummet after ban on ‘Israel’ sales
Colombia’s coal exports fell by almost half in July compared to the same period last year, with official figures showing a dramatic 45.8 percent drop in value.
The decline comes days after President Gustavo Petro renewed a ban on sales to ‘Israel’, compounding existing pressures on the country’s leading export sector.
According to the National Administrative Department of Statistics (DANE), Colombia exported $479.8 million worth of coal in July, a steep decrease from the $885.8 million sold in July 2024.
This marks the fifth consecutive quarter of contraction for the sector, which local mining unions attribute to a “global price crisis” and increased production in Indonesia that has driven down international prices.
A visual editor for Babylon.js ( an open Js game and rendering engine)
- Babylon.js repo github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.j…
GitHub - BabylonJS/Babylon.js: Babylon.js is a powerful, beautiful, simple, and open game and rendering engine packed into a friendly JavaScript framework.
Babylon.js is a powerful, beautiful, simple, and open game and rendering engine packed into a friendly JavaScript framework. - BabylonJS/Babylon.jsGitHub
Security camera video shows Israeli strike in southern Lebanon (VIdeo short)
Security camera video captured the moment an Israeli air attack hit the town of Ansariyeh, southern Lebanon. Additional video shows damage to the site, where excavation equipment was being stored.
Film recounting Hind Rajab’s final plea breaks record at premiere (Video short)
A film about Hind Rajab, the five-year-old Palestinian girl killed by Israeli forces in Gaza, received a record-breaking 23-minute standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival. ‘The Voice of Hind Rajab’ recounts her final plea to rescuers before she was killed.
Film recounting Hind Rajab’s final plea breaks record at premiere
A film about Hind Rajab, the girl killed by Israeli forces in Gaza, received a record-breaking standing ovation.Al Jazeera
EFF Statement on ICE Use of Paragon Solutions Malware
It was recently reported by Jack Poulson on Substack that ICE has reactivated its 2 million dollar contract with Paragon Solutions, a cyber-mercenary and spyware manufacturer.The reactivation of the contract between the Department of Homeland Security and Paragon Solutions, a known spyware vendor, is extremely troubling.
EFF Statement on ICE Use of Paragon Solutions Malware
This statement can be attributed to EFF Senior Staff Technologist Cooper QuintinIt was recently reported by Jack Poulson on Substack that ICE has reactivated its 2 million dollar contract with Paragon Solutions, a cyber-mercenary and spyware manufact…Electronic Frontier Foundation
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there is virtualization but that's annoying and slow, or ig you could not use internet(pretty much impossible) or very strict firewall rules, and then use some kind of proxy but that would not be a problem if it were hacked, and would resend the data but maybe fromna reader mode, which you could display with a minimalist browser.
Is Israel quietly expanding its nuclear arsenal? Satellite images raise suspicion
Construction work has intensified on a major new structure at a facility linked to Israel’s long-suspected atomic weapons programme, according to satellite images analysed by experts.
They say it could be a new reactor or a facility to assemble nuclear arms — but secrecy shrouding the programme makes it difficult to know for sure.
The work at the Shimon Peres Negev Nuclear Research Center near the city of Dimona will renew questions about Israel’s widely believed status as the Mideast’s only nuclear-armed state.
It could also draw international criticism, especially since it comes after Israel and the United States bombed nuclear sites across Iran in June over their fears that Tehran could use its enrichment facilities to pursue an atomic weapon.
Is Israel quietly expanding its nuclear arsenal? Satellite images raise suspicion
Israel is among nine countries confirmed or believed to have atomic weapons and among just four that have never joined the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.TRT Global
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Google’s $45 Million Contract With Netanyahu's Office to Spread Israeli Propaganda
Google’s $45 Million Contract With Netanyahu's Office to Spread Israeli Propaganda
Google is in the middle of a six-month, $45 million contract to amplify propaganda with Netanyahu’s office. The contract describes Google as a “key entity” supporting the prime minister’s messaging.Jack Poulson (Drop Site News)
Man drove across country with weapons, made threats after targeting Catholic monastery, officials say
Investigators in Orange County have arrested an Alabama man for making criminal threats against a Catholic church in Silverado Canyon, the Orange County Sheriff’s Department said this week.
Authorities were first alerted by officials from St. Michael’s Abbey on Silverado Canyon Road last week about a man, later identified as Joshuah Michael Richardson, sending potentially threatening emails.
Then Richardson, 38, showed up at the church in person and made additional threats, the sheriff’s department said. When a priest at the church called authorities, Richard was taken into custody without an incident.
But what investigators found was alarming: Richardson had body armor, high-capacity magazines, brass knuckles and knives in his car. "I honestly feel something very, very serious was pre-empted. He brought enough paraphernalia that's associated with violence that he's considering something to cause great hard to people," Orange County District Attorney Todd Spitzer said.
Alabama man first sent threatening emails to OC church. Then he showed up in person, OCSD says
The man allegedly targeted a Catholic church in Silverado Canyon.Helen Jeong (NBC Southern California)
Terms of service tracker?
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Pretty much anything that tracks webpage changes will do 😉
Like this wachete.com/
Wachete - Monitor web changes
Track and watch any webpage for changes. We will monitor the content and will send you a notification each time the content has changed. Free Sign-up.www.wachete.com
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Terms of Service; Didn't Read
'I have read and agree to the Terms' is the biggest lie on the web. Together, we can fix that.tosdr.org
Linux phones are more important now than ever.
E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don't be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.
Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we've seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:
- The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
- Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
- Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
- And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We've already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They've also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we've already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as "dangerous" and "untrusted". This will most certainly carry into their new "verification" system.
Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.
Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.
Samsung One UI Removed Bootloader Unlock – What It Means for Users in 2025
Samsung One UI removed bootloader unlock officially in latest update. Learn what this change means for custom ROM users, developers, and how it affects Android enthusiasts.Pavithran (TrendsLife)
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It seems like you read the title as "everyone needs to switch to Linux mobile right now" but that's not what it says.
The point is, as you said, there's a lot of work that needs to be done, and that work is more important now than ever.
I dunno! It will really require the participation of the entire community.
Gnome has been making great progress on the graphical front.
Notifications should be pretty simple, and probably should be provided by hardware manufacturers. But the support will need to be implemented into the apps that need them. That can potentially also fix the battery issue.
PostmarketOS I think is probably the most mature Linux mobile package currently but I'm no expert on the subject.
GNOME Shell on mobile: An update
It’s been a while since the last update on GNOME Shell mobile, but there’s been a huge amount of progress during that time, which culminated in a very successful demo at the Prototype Fund Demo Day...Jonas Dreßler (GNOME Shell & Mutter)
I'd argue that Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish are the most mature offerings. Both OSs are (or at least were at some point) developed as commercially viable alternatives to the duopoly. That gives them a headstart in terms of apps and overall pollish.
The postmarket shells are catching up, but you still get instructions like "drag and drop a file from your file manager to open it", which doesn't work on a phone. Phone UX still seems like an afterthought in many cases.
Postmarket OS is a desktop Linux system, but for phones. UT and Sailfish on the other hand are mobile OSs, that happen to use much of the same tech as desktop Linux. They are therefore much closer to the duopoly (for bettet or for worse).
Have had both. Still have Sailfish because the phone is cheaper.
Also I thought Ubuntu Touch would be discontinued and I no longer use Ubuntu on my desktop,
but an Arch-based OS.
Best thing you can do is buy a phone that's most compatible to the OS.
So Fairphone 5 or Pixel 3a for Ubuntu Touch,
and Jolla 2 for the Sailfish.
Do not buy Pine64.
Pine64 is unusable.
Dang it, I gotta change, I guess, unless this info is old:
Keep in mind that there is no known way to unlock the bootloader of the North American (Canada and the USA) editions of the Galaxy S23. - xda-developers.com/how-to-unlo…
Here's how to unlock the bootloader and root the Samsung Galaxy S23 right now
If you just got yourself a shiny new Galaxy S23, follow along this guide to root the phone with MagiskSkanda Hazarika (XDA)
Isn't the VollaPhone Quintus the best option for Ubuntu Touch? (It's more expensive than the Fair Phone, but it ships with UT)
Sure. It's just that the timeframe is a bit disheartening. To me... so all of this is highly subjective. We had the Nokia N900 in like 2009. And I was expecting to live the full Linux experience within a few years and those things to become a bit more affordable. And today it's almost 16 years later and it doesn't feel like we've come substantially closer. More recently we had Librem and Pine64 put some effort and publicity into it, and that's also been 5 years. The mobile/touch desktops made some good progress. PostmarketOS is kind of nice. But there are entire layers missing like the app framework in Android which enables such app lifecycles, connected standby... Sandboxing and a fine-granular permission system for proprietary apps (or just modern mainstream usage) is kind of in its infancy. And I'm not even sure if everyone is going to use Flatpak for everything. And all of those missing things are huge undertakings.
So I'm not sure when to expect such an every-day phone... Maybe in 2030 or 2035? But that's kind of late if the headline is "more important now, than ever". Because all the while Google is moving more and more stuff from AOSP into their proprietary Play services and it's getting uncomfortable for me. We have a deadline with the Google messes with the allowed apps on a phone starting 2027. And my life includes more and more mandatory apps, or I have to forfeit taking part in society, culture, convenience or riding a train... This year, Google started giving the GrapheneOS devs a hard time... Now they're making it even more complicated.
So of course not everyone has to use it, and I'm first of all concerned with my own wellbeing. But I really don't see a solution in the near future which is going to address the important issues if today and the next few years. So I'm a bit unsure if a Linux phone will come around and help me before it's too late, or if I need to find other ways to deal with it.
Can you help me understand why Linux phones are the answer rather than a community maintained android fork?
Android is already fully featured and has a solid ecosystem so it's usable now, not in 5-10 years with less of a need for adjustment for the people who want to switch.
Basically, why take several steps backwards and start from scratch?
I strongly disagree with this comment. I'll answer your numbered points from the original post one by one with my perspective:
- Development would happen completely in the open, since its community driven
- A community android fork wouldn't directly solve the issue of manufacturer locked bootloaders, but neither would Linux mobile
- I originally messed up on this bullet point, but this is the correction - the play integrity API would be unusable on both community driven Android and Linux mobile
- Developer verification will not apply to devices running an OS that isn't Google certified, which a community maintained android fork would not be
Do you disagree with any of these? Would love to hear your thoughts
Wow. Ok.
Development would happen completely in the open, since its community driven
All "community driven forks" are based on Google's AOSP. None of them have the resources to develop this stuff from the ground up.
A community android fork wouldn't directly solve the issue of manufacturer locked bootloaders, but neither would Linux mobile
No but someone would sell Linux devices if they were commercially viable, and no one would buy a Linux device with a locked bootloader.
the play integrity API would be unusable on both community driven Android and Linux mobile
You wouldn't need it on Linux mobile because...it's not Android.
Developer verification will not apply to devices running an OS that isn't Google certified
I already addressed this in OP.
You wouldn't need it on Linux mobile because...it's not Android
But then you need apps that work on Linux (optimised for mobile/touch). You can also easily create Apps for Android without play integrity API necessity.
Realistically an Android fork makes more sense.
Though in my ideal dream world a Rust based mobile wayland compositor (etc.) will be the future of open mobile OS. I hope there's enough (financial) interest to at some point reach that future.
But then you need apps that work on Linux
Correct again! Running Linux apps on Linux, what a concept!
Realistically an Android fork makes more sense.
It doesn't, for all the reasons I listed in OP.
Don't get me wrong, I'm the first promoting an Android free mobile Linux, free of big company influences.
Though, what I meant is that there's very few mobile optimised apps on Linux, and I doubt that changes soon. The Android SDK is very matured (like Compose for UI). It's fairly easy to create a good native app experience in Android. Less so for non-Android Linux. (I've developed apps for either) Think about that alone, which further complicates adoption, which TBH is just necessary to get to an ecosystem that us usable for daily usage.
I hope that changes sooner than later, but the current alternatives are just not there yet.
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
Definitely going to be trying for some kind of linux phone for my next one.
Debating biting the bullet on the ~$800 cost of a fairphone.
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i know it is still google, but i just started searching ebay for a used pixel 9 - looks like they are around $400-500 (pixel 10 came out last month). i figure getting graphene os on one of these may be an inexpensive path forward... still looking for good options, tho.
i'll have to check out fairphone. i remember something about them not being available in the US, but that may be old news.
oof, no wifi is kind of a dealbreaker for me; i have a home server and really dont want to have to be VPN'd into my home all the time 🙁
looks like fairphone 6 doesnt have much support on postmarket yet, but i'll keep an eye on it - ty ❤
Yeah, I don't think the Fairphone 6 is quite ready. In fact, since none of the previous Fairphone models ever got to full Linux usability, I don't really expect it to happen.
I think the best option -- and really the only option -- right now is the Furilabs FLX1. I'm planning on getting one soon.
Ubuntu Touch • Linux Phone
Ubuntu Touch is the open source phone that has freedom and privacy in mind. Supported by dozens of devices, with installer for FOSS fansdevices.ubuntu-touch.io
I was looking into Fairphone and got sketched out, they do not really seem particularly trustworthy or competent.
For example: discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134…
Had family use it because they had a Huawei phone
In my country, for all the banks I use, I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer.
So a Linux phone would need to provide this as I can’t be without access to my accounts.
I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer
Wat.
thats pretty common, in my country as well.
like a two factor authentication. but without TOTP. but with a proprietary app by the bank provided.
Yeah it’s part of the 2 factors authentification process.
Back in the days you received some card reader generating a code, but that ain’t the case anymore..
So Linux would need to have a native version of these apps or a way to efficiently emulate Android or iOS.
I didn’t know this. But I guess the bank has to allow it.
Last time I checked my banks were only allowing you to do such things through an app or at the bank (which is far from my village).
At the same time, many things that relate to proving that I am me has become very convenient in this society. For example I moved to a new apartment and they just sent a link to the contract and I signed it with the app and that was that, I did my taxes by just checking that the info they had was correct and signed it on my phone, etc.
Many cheaper online banks rely on their mobile app. Your debit card will not work wirhout an in-app confirmation. There's no web interface ("not secure enough").
Can I switch banks and make my life less convenient? Sure. Would I do it just to stick it to google? No.
I would like to move away from Android and iOS. But I'm not sure it's really feasible. Hell, I might even have to move fully to iOS, because that's what the wife uses. That's the challenge with Linux or alternative OSes on mobile. It goes against the purpose of the device - it needs to be able to interact with the people in your life.
Because I have Android and she has an iPhone, we can't easily share headphones (her AirPods or my generic ones) or some of the other accessories. For instance, I don't want a device without a 3.5mm jack, so none of my headphones work for her. About the only thing we can share is the USB-C cable, and it's less efficient on my device. We have to use Google Maps to share location, the built-in functions don't talk. We have to use regular SMS and calls or Discord to talk, because FaceTime and iMessage don't have compatible Android software. I love her with all my heart - and frankly speaking she's worth more to me than software advocacy.
That's what causes ecosystem lock-in. As Sartre said, Hell is other people.
That's the challenge with Linux or alternative OSes on mobile. It goes against the purpose of the device - it needs to be able to interact with the people in your life.
That's not a "challenge" that linux can ever overcome. The only way to overcome that is to ask your wife to switch to a device that's respectful of you and her and everyone else.
I find it extremely irritating that so many people see other devices and "well I can't interact with them the way I want to so I'd better join them and contribute to the problems so I can also not interact with other people on free systems".
Okay. Give me a Linux phone that works out of the box that suits the following dealbreakers:
- Compatibility with iMessage and FaceTime. This is essential because my wife, my MIL, and other family members all use it. I can't be expected to change everyone over, I need to be compatible with the majority. I might be able to convert them over time, but it's going to be gradual.
- Always-on location information sharing with location data pulled from both GPS & terrestrial sources.
- Full support for Bluetooth devices, especially the ANC function of AirPods or similar (oh, and support for my mother's hearing aid app).
- OS-level support for telephony and SMS + MMS + RTC messaging. With software that has an instantly usable UI.
- A deep repository of trusted software with clear and easy UX that doesn't require adjustment - it all needs to "just work".
Those are the dealbreakers for me.
Listen, if you want to continue to contribute value to companies that want to fuck you at every turn because you can't be bothered to find other ways to overcome minor inconveniences, that's your prerogative. You're just like most people.
Compatibility with iMessage and FaceTime. This is essential because my wife, my MIL, and other family members all use it.
Once again, this is never going to happen. And this is NOT essential. To anyone. Not even a little bit. Ask your family members to use a different platform. There are HUNDREDS of messaging apps that all do the same fucking thing but aren't behind Apple's Walled Garden. If they can't be bothered, then it must not be important. I ask my friends and family to message me on Signal and most of them don't have a problem with it.
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Unfortunately not usable with Linux without a phone yet but so far the most accessible option
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Always-on location information sharing with location data pulled from both GPS & terrestrial sources.
Wait, aren't we on here due to privacy?
Like you, I value my relationships and by extension my mental health more than which messaging app I use.
I hate Meta with a passion and them acquiring Whatsapp is probably the most disappointing acquisition of all time to me, but I'm going to continue using it because my wife, family in Latin America, and world friends all use it. And being lonely and out of touch isn't worth the satisfaction of knowing my data isn't being scraped to me. Others in these threads always seems to disagree here, and they're free to do that but it's not a lifestyle I'm interested in.
I'm making changes where I can; I self host a server for my media, photos, files. I'm going to install Graphene on my phone soon. I'm interested in picking up a cheaper older phone to try a Linux mobile OS on. I have my phone auto connect to my pihole to block trackers when I'm out of the house, etc. But I know as soon as it's something I have to inconvenience others with, it's not going to work.
Pick your battles.
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apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
Banks allow me to login via their web interface, send money to a BSB + Account Number or even a PayID (email / phone number) but using their app to do just the same is too far?
It's total rubbish, honestly I've resurrected my OG ridge wallet and am planning on installing Graphene on my P7P to skirt the phone payment trap.
I was one of the few in Australia to test Google wallet (thanks for the free cash google) and thought it was the bees knees. It's a fucking long con and fuck I feel dumb for falling into it.
Worst still my drivers licence is a phone app, so are my work certificates and probably a bunch of other shit that I'll only realize later.
I guess fuck around and find out shows its ugly face eventually.
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Ahh we don't really use cheques here in Aus. Payments being electronic doesn't worry me, pay lands in my account the same day it's processed, sometimes the following day if the accountants miss the deadline.
Sending someone money is generally instant using PayID, without fees too.
I use neobanks (no physical branches) so as long as their web interface works well enough for me, and I can use my own 2FA (not SMS based) ill be happy as a pig in mud.
Just wait and see if the climate turns to no physical cards in the next 5 - 10 years...
I imagine building on existing AOSP project like GrapheneOS or LineageOS would be the easiest path forward. There is already a decent ecosystem of open source apps available. You'd still need to figure out what to do with proprietary apps like Slack that regular people might need for day to day use.
Ultimately, the problem lies in lack of a hardware vendor willing to take make open phones that are geared towards running a custom OS on without having to jailbreak them. I really think the only way this can happen is if there was a vendor that focuses on providing a full stack open source system for mobile. Maybe a company like Liberux or even Framework will succeed at doing something like that at some point.
Liberux is using waydroid to add compatibility from what I've seen, so that may be the way forward where you have a base Linux system, and then a layer for running Android apps on top of it.
Yes. Need the kind of love desktop hardware got for Linux with mobile hardware. I don't need tap to pay and mobile deposit. That can come when the ball really gets rolling and the user base is too large to not service. For now I'd be happy with consistent phone/text support, signal application, a mobile Firefox, and the phone dockable to run full desktop applications. Strong enough hardware. Google are a bunch of jackasses. Need more phones to support PostmarketOS or something
Most apps I can replace with a web browser but the mass market has shown it's preference for an app store. Got to get payments integrated into Flathub
Cyberdecks are 1) pocketable 2) computing devices 3) often wireless, and 4) run Linux.
That's what people want from phones, so I figured it was a valid contribution to the discussion.
I guess not...
for 4 Linux would also kind have the same problem as a 3rd party ROM, (almost) no one is making mobile apps for Linux
Sure, there are a lot of desktop apps, but most don't have a mobile UI in mind
My first thought was that a hard-fork of AOSP would be a much better solution than a Linux phone. But when you have locked down hardware, it doesn't matter, because you simply can't install it.
I still think a community fork of AOSP would be more efficient than Linux mobile.
Are there any Linux mobile OSs that do not use a compatibility layer with Android underneath it?
I tried Ubuntu Touch a couple of years ago and couldn't get mobile data working with UK provider but apart from that it was very cool.
I have a Pixel 9 Pro which is supposed to get security updates until 2031 but at the pace Google is closing Android down I wonder if it will even be viable to stay on an AOSP degoogled ROM until then.
I feel like the future is leading us to a place where we will have to reduce our mobile computing to a trusted but slow and unreliable main phone while keeping a secondary mainstream device for banking/government apps.
Have you looked at the state of how open source smartphone os projects are funded? Seems like not enough people think it is currently important. i saw no bump in funding since the announcement. I would say the best bet is trying to help one of these projects with fundraising and trying to educate or convince enough people it is worth investing in. and obviously donate if you can. Although to be honest even i don't do that (i think i invest enough in FOSS).
Once i bought a phone i tried to pick one that is friendly for FOSS projects and went with a pixel (which grapheneos recommended). so voting or signaling with your wallet is an option.
I also think something like codeberg. where anyone can be a member if he pays fees that help fund the organisation and democratically elect a board that decides what to fund could be helpful. codeberg has a pretty good organic growth so that is encouraging but i don't know if there is enough interest in that.
codeberg's profile - Liberapay
Keep Open-Source open for everyone! Codeberg is a Non-Profit Organization, with the objective to give the Open-Source code that is running our world a safe and friendly home, …Liberapay
Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices.
Got me worried (bc i have a newish oneplus phone) but apparently OnePlus is only doing that in China for now. Still not a good sign for the future...
xiaomi is doing something like motorola, in which they drop support for unlocking older devices.
pretty slimy move considering those are the ones that need it the most. very disappointed in a manufacturer that otherwise makes great hardware.
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I think the biggest thing lacking in this kind of hardware is displays. Where can you find a phone-sized 1080p display that doesn't require signing some NDA or reverse engineering the specs? OLED would be even better for battery life.
I don't see that probably 360p black-or-white e-ink display is going to be a good experience unless you're comparing it to a flip phone.
I'll consider a Linux phone as long as the following are met:
- Battery life is decent (for me this means a minimum of 24 hours of light use and no mystery drains).
- Reliable enough to not fear for my life when traveling.
- UX is polished enough to not be painful.
- Email notifications and communication apps work correctly (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp).
If these are met, I'll buy whatever is available in a year or two.
UX is polished enough to not be painful
This one requirement I believe to be already met. Mobile kde, for one, is pretty nice. I believe the bottleneck of linux phones are really in the hardware
communication apps work correctly (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp).
Google and Facebook will cooperate. WhatsApp will never work reliably.
WhatsApp will never work reliably.
Use the web version, although you'll need a phone to authenticate.
Better yet, move out of whatsapp (i know, network effect).
Smart phones are simultaneously such a wonder of human engineering and have become such a disappointment of human greed.
This whole situation has made me just care less about my phone, and use it less in my life while I use Linux PCs much more.
I don't see my phone as a "computer" at this point, really. It's more of a communication appliance. If I'm launching an app that's not texting, calling, GPS, or music, it's probably a replacement for a website I'd normally use on a PC.
Linux phones could change this though. The idea of your PC being your docked phone would work great for most use cases. Unfortunately though, even though I would love it I don't really see the general public jumping at the chance to get back to the desktop experience. I could maybe see a little traction in the business world.
Oh same here! My reduced phone usage has been part of a much larger overall improvement in my well being and being able to live in the moment and be content.
I recently saw a video from a harvard dude talking about how we NEED to be bored. It's when we fall into our baseline mental state and start thinking through shit and figuring life out. And not doing that can lead to anxiety and depression and other bad shit. Given my experiences, I certainly cannot disagree.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=orQKfIXM…
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Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.m.youtube.com
This is pretty much how I am. Use my desktop for important things. On weekends I try to not even have my phone on my person and I check it a couple times a day while it stays in the bedroom like a house phone. Life is so much better without it.
I unfortunately still do like to take it with if walking/biking/driving but I wish I didn't. Id like to have another phone that only makes phone calls for that but has my same number. Its funny. When I was a kid we didn't even think about it because none of us had phones. Going on a random dirt bike ride miles away with nothing. Better (also unsafe) times.
Im tired of smartphones consuming everyone's minds.
Im tired of smartphones consuming everyone's minds.
Resisting the standard smartphone addiction just makes the addiction of some others so much more apparent. My own wife is still pretty badly shackled to hers.
My next phone will be a Linux phone.
I was on board the Fairphone hype, and while I think they have a good message, I actually think Pine64 does exactly what they do - just without the flashy marketing. Fairphone still uses AOSP as the basis for their OSes, so there is still a risk of hardware lockout by Google. This is leaving alone other issues like no headphone jack and USB 2.0 for the latest generation's USB-C.
This is actually the same reason I think Ecosia won't succeed in the long term unless they build their own search engine. Luckily it looks like they've already started delivering results as of last month.
I should also mention that the PinePhone isn't Scott free from criticism either. Think I read somewhere that the camera is borked because the latest firmware or software update messed with the camera module functionality. No real fix for that soon, which sucks.
I'm in the same exact boat.
At some point when Google kills custom ROMs, everyone working on customs ROMs won't have anywhere else to go other than a Linux phone.
Ich would also like to use a Linux Phone as daily Driver but it is not really appealing in it's current state. So i really hope, you are right and perople will start working on that more.
I'm probably just a bit frustrated from trying to get postmarketos working on some old phones. I am really stunned about how much effort has been put into that but the systems are so closed down and different, that it is a leally hard job to cover them all.
That's what Google wants, because people gave up on Jailbreaking iPhones because the loss of features wasn't worth it on the other side. Google probably doesn't love that their flagship is the best model for use with custom ROMs, plus they're also trying to lock out Xiomi as well for what that's worth.
While giving up is an option, someone somewhere needs to coordinate this entire OSS ecosystem to focus on singular projects. I would love to see a privacy and FOSS non-profit do exactly this.
I was on board the Fairphone hype, and while I think they have a good message, I actually think Pine64 does exactly what they do - just without the flashy marketing.
Exactly what they do, except it's not a functional product. "Overpriced, underpowered, and half-finished" is the motto of pine64.
Yeah, as I alluded to at the end of my post, Pine64 has a lot of issues with making their devices actually useful.
They base a lot of their development on the community though. So if the community isn't up to it, then virtually no one at Pine64 is.
You missed the overpriced and underpowered part. In the EU, the pinephone pro cost 600€, the same as the fairphone 6, and it's significantly worse in every single way. Even if it actually worked, who in their right mind would pay that much for a device that's going to run out of ram as soon as you open a few tabs in Firefox?
They base a lot of their development on the community though. So if the community isn't up to it, then virtually no one at Pine64 is.
I doubt they'll be fixing anything since they seem to have stopped selling them.
Also, if we go by their track record with the pinetime, PRs fixing basic functionality will be left open for years. Like how they can't be bothered to accept fixes allowing the stopwatch to run in the background and not reset when you get a notification, let alone QoL improvements like being able to tell the time on your watch while the stopwatch is running.
I doubt they'll be fixing anything since they seem to have stopped selling them.
Pine64 stopped selling the PinePhone Pro due to a lack of demand.
The regular PinePhone is still being sold, although a lack of a "Pro" qualifier certainly doesn't help their optics of producing a competent phone at today's standards.
I have a laptop with a SIM slot and I can use mobile data, SMS and even make voice calls. It doesn't support 5G though. Also the mobile hardware is crap, and I get like a 10th of the speed over 4G that I do on my phone, plus it chews through battery.
So yeah, awesome feature but not as nicely implemented as I'd like. Hopefully the Thinkpad version is better!
I don't agree!
A linux phone, or any other open source alternative, has ALWAYS been more important than the ones we've got. Being locked into an eco-system, has always been bad for the regular user. It's about companies controlling people and the market, and it should never have to be a choice between a rock and a hard place.
I really wish that the Firefox phone had gained more support. And I wish that there will soon be a linux-phone for the regular person, all over the world.
But I guess people in general keep choosing to lock themselves in, by using Google and Apple...
It's not a simple matter of choice. Most people aren't invested into open source, they just want to get by and do their mundane things. Most people aren't even aware of all the privacy stuff or abusive practices of big business, it's usually some more outspoken tech savvy person that decides to expose what the big corps are doing. So using open source is not a choice, like you would be just choosing your preferred cereal brand, but both a technical and political act. And most people are just into the system, they aren't aware of all malicious things around them.
Not only that, but also when companies feel threatened, they start imposing new technical and legal restrictions to make using OSS harder. Since they have more control over the whole production supply chain of devices, they have more cost effective options and even partnership with hardware vendors to make using OSS very hard or impossible.
I really wish that the Firefox phone had gained more support
KaiOS 4.x just dropped with Fx 128 I think. You will be on an underpowered flip phone, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing…
Android is Linux. It uses a Linux kernel paired with a BSD based user land. Also there is an AOSP version of Android which is Android without all the Google bits. LineageOS and some other security oriented firmwares derive from it. That isn't to say Google are necessarily happy about this entirely but at the same time, they open sourced most of Android and probably see it as a useful antitrust defence and the impact of flashed devices barely more than background noise.
The issue of bootloaders is an orthogonal matter since Linux or not does not mean bootloader or not - many black box devices use Linux but you won't be flashing them any time soon - TVs, set top boxes etc. I would argue that regardless of OS, there should be a right to repair law (e.g. in Europe) that allows people to maintain devices beyond their warranty. And if Samsung et al don't want to do it, then they should have an obligation to unlock devices upon request.
they open sourced most of Android
It's the exact opposite.
ASOP is open-source, it's in the name.
Google's Android has been less and less open-source every year, they've been replacing AOSP apps with their own and vendor-locking them to their GooglePlayAppsWhatever system (hence microG), shunning away the open-source variants they replace.
I mean open source is that. The only reason open source exist is to be able to close some parts of its source (i.e. compatibility with privative software). Google promoted open source because it allowed them to close it whenever they want it. The Trojan Horse was always there, at plain sight.
That's why it's important to distinguish free software from open software. In most cases open source is just a label that companies can use to look friendlier.
Yeah, it depends on the specific licence clauses. AOSP uses Apache Licence 2.0 which is normally regarded as a free software licence but it also could be regarded as Open software as by the OSS definition.
The problem with this licence is that it allows distribution of binaries based on the original source code without having to share the source or even changing the licence.
This means that Google could effectively take the entire (some part of Google Android is already close sources) AOSP in the current state (with the contributions of thousand of individual developers) and use it to start developing a close source Android OS project. Since Google are the main developers of Android and they could shift OG Android into a closed environment that could be no longer compatible with the old one. Google also is the main provider of security fixes. Since phone manufacturera want to able to run Google Android (stock Android) this could make old Android versions (before privatization) incompatible with phones.
For example let's say that Google Android changes the main OS ABI or API. Then programs made for Google Android wouldn't be compatible with other Android versions.
This would basically make users decide or you stay with Google Android (close sourced) and you trust use because "do no evil ;)". Or you stay with your free software versions of Android that are no longer compatible with current Android programs basically forcing you to have an OS that's not able to run "common" programs, basically isolating you from the mainstream smart phone use cases like having banking apps, mainstream chat apps, etc.
You think if they used another licence it would be any different? Countless open source projects have a GPLv3 + proprietary licence which is way more evil than Apache - they poison the open source with GPLv3 so no competitor can contribute without revealing their changes while they themselves can use the proprietary licence. e.g. Trolltech and QT for example but there are many others.
And frankly you should be blessed that you have a fully fledged, open source phone OS you may fork and build from. The OP wants a Linux phone OS and AOSP is a Linux phone OS. There are many forks of Android, closed and open that wouldn't exist if Google had just decided to be proprietary from the get go. They were under no compulsion to do this but they did. If you have used LineageOS, or GrapheneOS for example then you are a beneficiary of this. You are completely at liberty to have a de-Googled modern phone OS powered by Linux right now.
QT uses one or another, either GPLv3/LGPLv3/GPLv2 or privative. Poisoning open source? If you refer to the fact that they allow a closed source licence, yes I also dislike that. But how is GPLv3 poisoning anything? If you want to use and modify/contribute to the QT project then you have to maintain user freedoms unless you pay QT for their rights. In the end term, the user is always respected since contributions to base qt are always free software. With only a GPL licence then the developers would need to share source code for their distributions. The Multiple-Licence allows third party developers to gain "fully-paid-ownership" which allows them to close source it.
Also since QT it's allowed to be shiped with LGPL third party devs can close source their parts of code that link against QT.
So it's basically an interesting way of having a permissible licence while keeping the QT base fully libre.
Probably you refer to the availability that open source philosophy gives. Yeah, that is the principal difference between libre software and open software. Open software advocates for fully openness for the sake of the developers no matter what they want to make later with it, libre software advocates for the source code of the end user.
the vast majority of commenters here either have no direct experience with a Linux phone or have seen some shallow youtube "review" of a dude swiping the same two screens left/right and extrapolate a buncha shit that has no contact with reality.
presently, and in the foreseeable future, linux phones aren't an android alternative, they are just linux on the phone, i.e. they allow you to do linux shit on a handheld device.
like, the bleeding edge version of any variant (plasma mobile, gnome, phosh) isn't even close to an Android phone from like 2015, let alone a modern one.
and that's before we touch on the pillars of mobile tech like fluidity, battery efficiency, reliability, etc., none of those things are even in a remotely passable state, not to mention - using the thing to make calls. you are better off forgetting about the camera, as well.
and the reason is simple, not only is there a gargantuan discrepancy between evil corp's resources and the predominantly unpaid enthusiasts, each dev team's reimplementing shit that's already solved on another platform. apple doesn't have to do that. google as well.
then there's the idea that the javascript-backed Gnome - that has issues running fluidly on super-capable hardware - is the basis on a low-power device on which the linux mobile phone experience is built. reinventing solved shit, but in a stupid way - THREE FINGER swipe on a phone, really?
although there's a solid app base, the apps that are supposedly mobile friendly are few and far between, most are just downright unusable on a vertical screen and dog help you if launch an electron app. firefox, even with pmOS patches (useless without) is tiresome to use. you can forget about dating, ubering, banking, or even just using a messenger everybody else does.
if you're squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.
finally, if you're talking about a device that you've grown accustomed to to the extent that you're using it subconsciously, swiping and multitasking and such whilst walking and dodging other pedestrians - no such thing exists over here.
I'm just tying this up because I keep reading about "switching", people are either delusional or misinformed, there's nothing (yet) to switch to.
get a couple of $50 ex-flaghips to play with, flash lineageOS on one and pmOS on the other and that should hold you over for a coupla years.
that's not a thing, presently. the OS has trouble running on its own and handling "native" apps, let alone introducing an emulation to the mix.
of course, it can and does work to some extent - but not one where you depend on it, like you do with modern phones.
Osmin on PinePhone was... Tolerable. I'm just pleasantly surprised it worked okay with GPS being integrated into the modem.
Takes a long time to get a GPS fix (like old standalone GPS units), but it's possible to provide A-GPS data to it.
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
I'm not critiquing your post, I'm just clarifying to a buncha people who think otherwise that it's not an option.
as to "it needs to accelerate", I have a grim outlook. the only way it's gonna do that is if there significant cash behind it and if everything non-essential is to be trimmed so that a functional platform can emerge. in our ever-enshittifying, greater-fool-theory investment climate, it's doubtful there loose capital with such an agenda, and I doubt such a thing is even on the horizon.
same way with "desktop linux"; like, can you image where we'd be if every development effort is geared towards just one DE/WM, instead of tons of duplicated efforts and abandoned paths? yeah, good things eventually emerge from all the disjointed chaos, but eventually. and our joint assessment is that we're running outta time for the "eventual" part.
see, this is the thing I'm talking about. your comment indicates that it's possibly a viable alternative to OS developed by the wealthiest corps in the world, for 15+ years and people are like "ok, there's options"...
it is nowhere near that. it's linux on a mobile device, and that's such a humongously, vastly different thing than an alternative and that should be the first and foremost thing said. same with the "android is linux" bozos in every thread (it really, really isn't) who are not helping the issue, at all.
and then we can dwell on whether it's usable or not in its present state.
it's possibly a viable alternative to OS developed by the wealthiest corps in the world, for 15+ years
It already is. It's just a matter of porting it over to a different form factor.
if you're squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.
What?? PmOS and Ubuntu Touch both have very easy, foolproof installers. No idea about Mobian to be fair.
I've been using only Linux-based mobile OS's since my first smartphone, and while you're right for a lot of the new breed made for the Pinephone and Librem, Sailfish OS and Ubuntu Touch are both perfectly useable for lots of people. Both have a decent app ecosystem and both support running Android apps to fill in the gaps (I've used both, the proprietary Jolla one is about as good as it gets and is practically seamless for like 99% of Android apps).
Of course there's going to be people who will respond to me to say they can't possibly switch because of that one app that they and 5 other people in the world use, as though they're in any way relevant to what I've said. Just the same as when I post about people switching to Linux on the desktop and there's always that one Fusion 360 user who thinks everyone in the world also uses Fusion and so Linux can't possibly ever work for anyone.
To be fair, Fusion 360 is pretty good... I hate to love it, to miss it. I can't wrap my head around the work flow in FreeCAD.
But more often I am shocked by people saying they have to stay on windows because of Office... Like, the fuck? MS doesn't even want you to have that installed on your computer anymore and is pushing all web based, but that is going to keep you on Windows?? Nothing there is particularly hungry, just put it in a VM if you absolutely can't get by with one of the several great alternatives.
This seems less of a problem in the US, but a lot of stuff here is done with some apps that won't run on these distributions.
Banks have created identity provides which now the government also uses, and they're locked down to Android and iOS. Without these, making payments or do other stuff you need your identity for gets hard. And there are used by hundreds of thousands of people daily.
If they can run, I'd switch over instantly, but now I'm pretty much stuck.
Thank you. I get what OP is saying, but in general I'm so over the constant blind Linux fanboy hype train, like it's the solution to everything. One of the reasons I can't really stand to be on this instance unless I see something important enough to hit the front page. I'll take a remotely functional windows dist with customized features over pretty much any linux OS anyday in order to not struggle to complete the most basic, essential tasks.
Life's too short to spend glued to Stackexchange instead of actually getting shit done.
What are these "most basic, essential" tasks you're struggling with? Outside of trying to get Discord to screen share nicely with Baulders gate 3 and the one time I accidentally overwrote the python 3 install and broken it, it has been pretty pain free. And I code with both .NET and with Android Studio, I do plenty of gaming, and some photo editing. All things beyond the most basic of tasks and I rarely run into issues.
Have I broken a Linux install? Yep. But I've also bricked a handful of Windows systems poking around in the registry.
Tracker blocking uses flawed heuristics. The only methods that are typically used are static lists which is just badness enumeration. There is nothing stopping the app/service from sending the data down a different domain that isn't blocked or a domain that can't be blocked without breaking the service.
Adding to that, how do we even decide what is a "tracker"? What is the definition? Some might say it includes all telemetry or crashlytics. Are those inherently malicious?
I don't think it would make sense for GrapheneOS to include something flawed like a "tracker blocker" that lulls people into a false sense of security. They use robust and meaningful methods for improving the privacy and security of the OS.
Currently i am looking for a Jolla phone commerce.jolla.com/products/jo…
They are private company but seems to be very user friendly and carefull with their dev community. What do you think about them folks?
Jolla C2 Community Phone
Reclaim your smartphone with Jolla C2 The Jolla C2 isn’t for everyone. It’s for those who believe their privacy is their own to control, who value trust over shortcuts, and who have the courage to make their own way.Jolla Shop
Meh, this will just push more people to not install gapps. None of these issues affect folks who don't install gapps.
The best apps are on fdroid, anyway. If I was a Dev I wouldn't bother putting it on Google play, anyway
None of these issues affect folks who don't install gapps.
It absolutely does, if you actually read the OP.
How delusional are you? Samsung holds over 20% of the worldwide mobile phone market, only beat by Apple by a few percent.
And that is ignoring the obvious trend from Google to lock down the Android ecosystem to only them and their partners. If they have their way, they will make 3rd party ROMs nearly impossible, block all 3rd party apps, and close the door on fdroid. Maybe what has been done so far doesn't affect you, but if no one gets in their way, it absolutely will and soon.
I don't even know how to answer that. Nothing in the OP has anything to do with Google apps.
Samsung is the largest android manufacturer by a wide margin.
Is it possible to have my normal shitty samsung for stuff that wont work on a linux phone, and have like a pinephone for simple calls and stuff, but have them both use the same phone # ? I doubt.
Cuz when hiking or something I like a phone for safety but I dont want distractions.
Just sign up with your service of choice and log in on whatever devices you want.
Someone suggested jmp.chat elsewhere.
I just hope that this time we go Free Software and not committing the mistake of going Open Source for a 3rd time (BSD/UNIX AT&T; Android/Google). Unless we want to fall with the same stone yet once more.
Android going Open Source allowed Google to close Android once it got mature. It's a Trojan Horse, yet people still go Open Source and then complain when some company closes their source.
Though we can't use the android name and logo, the software that was open so far is still open for use.
Take that part and continue building from there
I get where this argument is coming from, but I don't think there are meaningful differences in the success of gpl or other copyleft licenses, vs permissive ones (except maybe cases where someone was willing and able to enforce the gpl in court). Companies are no less capable of doing EEE with copyleft. There are also plenty of permissively licensed software projects that have gained a lot of popularity, just like some gpl ones have.
The difference in traction between Linux and BSD probably has more to do with the same kinds of forces that allowed Android to succeed and then crowd Windows phones out of the market.
My bad for no specifying I didn't use a very specific naming indeed. Normally Open Source it's used for source code that's not copylefted or copylefted software that does not defend user freedom (Although Open Source OSS does not say that, indeed GPL by the OSS definition is open source software). On the other hand Free software is commonly used for GPL like software (although most of the so called open source software could also be named free software). Also free software does not refer to "gratis" software. For a better explanation you can check this and this.
Anyways what I wanted to point out is that software that protects user freedoms and is copylefted (like GPL) protect users because the source code is protected from being closed if it is distributed.
On the other hand some open source software (open as open access), like ASOP, give open access without any protection for the user freedoms. For example the BSD-3-Clause.
I prefer to use the term Free Software instead of Open Software, because it points out that the whole meaning behind the licence is to maintain source code freedoms. On the other hand Open software seems to defend the fact that the source code is open but not its freedoms.
Both OSS Open source and FSF Free software definition refer to mostly the same set of licences, which in order to distinguish you would need to check the particular details like copyleft, etc.
Free Software, Open Source, FOSS, FLOSS - same but different - FSFE
There are two major terms connected to software you can freely use, study, share, and improve: Free Software and Open Source. Based on them you can also fi...FSFE - Free Software Foundation Europe
It would be cool to see people move beyond the standard smartphone and into some sort of hotspot and linux based palmtop or umpc like setup
I had something like that in the early 2000s with a nokia n800 and it worked well enough I'm sure it would be even better now
It’s not daily-driver ready for everyone, but it frees you from Google and OEM lockdowns.
If we want an open mobile future, this is the project worth supporting.
also i am pretty sure Google cannot fully get rid of AOSP, especially Android is put on any phone that isn't Google.
tho even before the Goolog fuckery these things where there.
Samsung required a a leaked program to Unlock its bootloader(Odin which is proprietary), and would trip Knox.
Xiaomi required a wait time to unlock its bootloader, and the unlocking bootloader thingy is proprietary.
Banking apps wouldnt work with root and stuff, even before the Play Integrity API forcing thingy.
indeed, android has been a shit show for the last couple of months and its not looking good.
i was thinking that this will make rooting and by extension custom ROMs prevalent again which hopefully will take us back to the golden age of android modding, but be careful of what you
wish for.
I DON'T WANNA USE STOCK ANDROID. DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA
i know that's why i'm seething right now, we are hopeless since custom roms and root users are a fraction of a fraction that is people who install apk outside google
removing the ability to unlock bootloaders is just another negative
I also don't know them in depth, but from what I do know:
Lineage is a tweaked AOSP, it doesn't have google apps by default but can use MindTheGapps or microG
/e/OS is either their own system or heavily modded android, iirc it uses microG by default (mG is by /e/ i think)
Graphene is a privacy-focused android mod that can use googl.e apps, but in a sandbox. Basically a separate space, where they don't have any access to outside data
So basically they all lack google by default, but with different ways to use apps that use google
While I support the continued progress of real Linux phones, have a Pinephone, and even wasted all of yesterday trying to make a working build of Armbian for retro handheld I have; I think it's more practical to focus on open Android distributions, getting more phones out that can support multi os's and buying those, and growing a robust app market system that can compete with Google Play.
F-Droid is almost there, but being open-source doesn't mean something has to be free of charge. F-Droid should be extended, or possibly an additional app manager be established, that still promotes software freedom and privacy, but allows for devs to charge for their apps as well.
I think it's more practical to focus on open Android distributions
I just laid out how the entire Android ecosystem as a whole is in jeopardy. That was the entire point of the post.
Nothing that has or will happen can stop the parts of Android that are already open from remaining open. Yes there will be fewer choices. Yes this means alternative ROM makers will have no choice but to shoulder more of the development burden themselves. And yes this means there's going to be significantly fewer open Android devices and new manufacturers will have to make the intentional effort to make and sell new devices that are free by design - a few of which already exist.
But no matter how many obstacles open Android has, the thing you're ignoring is that it's still in a far better place than mobile Linux. For a start, any device that respects rights enough to be Linux compatible will automatically be compatible with free and degoogled versions of Android as well.
What these growing problems are is a galvanizing call. Samsung, Xiaomi, and OnePlus, and Google were never our friends. Whatever their imperfections, at least Pine64, Purism, BQ, Planet Computers, Murena, Fairphone, F(x)tec, Volla, and SHIFT have sold hardware that was rights respecting by design. We need more companies or other organizations to do that, and we need to choose to buy and promote more devices like that.
And as that happens more, open Android and Linux are going to benefit equally, but there's no getting around the fact that for now and the forseeable future, the open Android variants are still far more mature, far more feature-complete, way closer to the kind of user experience the vast majority of people expect, and far more established.
And again, probably the biggest missing thing we need there is an app marketplace that competes more directly with Google Play, that gives more devs good incentives to want to switch away from Play.
Nothing that has or will happen can stop the parts of Android that are already open from remaining open.
Not really relevant if future development stalls.
the thing you're ignoring is that it's still in a far better place than mobile Linux
The thing you're ignoring is that Linux is continually progressing and improving while Android is regressing.
Whatever their imperfections, at least Pine64, Purism, BQ, Planet Computers, Murena, Fairphone, F(x)tec, Volla, and SHIFT have sold hardware that was rights respecting by design.
The hardware is irrelevant when the software is fundamentally broken.
No, in a lot of ways the open Android roms keep getting better, despite every possible obstacle being thrown in their way. It's easy to make a mature platform sound like it has "stalled", when you're comparing it to alternatives that are still so unusably bad that they have nowhere to go but up.
Do what you want, but get real. If you care more about making your ideals happen, maybe stop debating internet randos so feverishly, and start making pull requests.
It's easy to make a mature platform sound like it has "stalled"
It's not "stalled", it's regressing. I explained all of this in detail in the OP.
maybe stop debating internet randos so feverishly
My brother in Christ, you came in here and debated me in my thread. I am not debating with myself here...
and start making pull requests
Did it ever occur to you that everyone is not a coder?
Is identity verification for publishing android apps that bad?
What does "that bad" mean? It gives Google ultimate control over what apps you can install on "your" phone. Essentially bringing it on PAR with Apple.
Both the app store and play store already have your billing information since you have to pay to publish an app anyway right?
There are (currently) ways to distribute apps outside of Play Store on Android. So no. I don't even have a Google account anymore for them to associate with my payment information.
It gives Google ultimate control over what apps you can install on “your” phone.
Only if you're using Android, though. It makes sense to me that Google would want publishers of Android apps to be verified, since Google would face backlash if any attacker could publish Android apps anonymously.
Only if you're using Android
...Yeah? That was my point. It's time to move away from Android.
Google would face backlash if any attacker could publish Android apps anonymously.
I don't think you understand. This is the way it's always been, since the beginning of Android.
It may be what Google wants; as a user it is absolutely not what I want. It is not any of Google's business what I install on my device. If they want to provide it as a service and give users the option to opt out of it, I'm totally fine with that. As is, it sure looks like they just want more control, the same way Apple has. I'd be very unsurprised to see Google following in their footsteps in short order and requiring 27% of their income in order to be "verified", or blocking apps that compete with them, or making it so God Damn frustrating that developers just quit, as they have on the Play Store.
since Google would face backlash if any attacker could publish Android apps anonymously.
This is about installing APKs, not apps downloaded from the Play Store. Which, by the way, also have no quality control. Publish a YouTube downloader and it gets taken down in 3 seconds. Make an app to steal people's data, perhaps even steal their money? Literally not an issue.
Google doesn't want you to be able to install a secure open source YouTube client that can ignore ads, or modified apps that can bypass ads they serve that 3rd party app developers put in. They do not give a fuck about attackers getting all your shit. They also don't want you using NextCloud if you could be using Google Drive - so rest assured, Nextcloud fuckery will now continue on APKs too, not just the Play Store verifications.
In all of this, Apple is in some ways better than what Google wants to do - only because Apple makes money off all devices that run iOS. So they don't really care if you use something like NextCloud instead of iCloud - they already made money off you, anything else is a bonus. Of course they do still want to keep you paying for shit and they don't want to be sued by Google for allowing ad-free youtube apps, so they're only marginally better.
how is that even legal
I dunno, ask Apple, they've been getting away with it for 20 years.
At this point, the "best" solution might be buying one of those SBC (single board computers) that also has an android image, like orangePi or ODroid and "build" the rest of the phone on top of it. Might be the only way people can get a screen smaller than 6" as well. I say Android in this case because it has access to all the apps without needing emulation or Waydroid
OOOOORRRRR, just buy an used older phone that you know is easy to unlock and install a custom rom. Did that with a motorola G6, am happy with lineage. Not the fastest phone by a long shot, especially as newer versions of many apps just introduce more bloat because fuck you, but perfectly usable for messaging and video watching. Also has a headphone jack!
GitHub - V3lectronics/SPIRIT: Smartphone based on the Raspberry Pi CM 5.
Smartphone based on the Raspberry Pi CM 5. Contribute to V3lectronics/SPIRIT development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
Ill address your issues with Android and then ill give my issues with mobile Linux:
::: spoiler 1
Yeah this is bad but not even devastating for custom roms like GOS or LineageOS
:::
::: spoiler 2
I highly doubt Google would lock the bootloader, they still make the most friendly devices for custom roms (yes even after all they have done). Also Samsung hasnt acturally allowed custom roms for a while now while Xiaomi doesn't either.
:::
::: spoiler 3
- Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
Even if a developer used the Play Integrity API it doesn't mean custom roms or other operating systems like GOS arent supported. I use GOS and have had no issues with play integrity, there are no incentives to require a certified Android device.
:::
::: spoiler 4
- And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result.
Sideloading isnt going anywhere and tbh I doubt this will be strongly enforced, Google will always have the threat of root resurfacing. You dont even need root to get rid of Google Play services and install MicroG.
:::
::: spoiler Conclusion
Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.
That seems highly unlikely, even with everything Google has done the fact is AOSP is the only mature open source mobile project.
:::
Now ill get to my issues with mobile Linux:
::: spoiler Hardware
As of now there is no good hardware and no plans by any company to make good hardware in the future.
:::
::: spoiler UI
Mobile Linux interfaces are at least a decade behind Android, clunky and bearly usable. Btw yes I have tried them recently, they suck. For the most part mobile Linux interfaces are made by developers who would never acturally daily drive them.
:::
::: spoiler Software support
Not a lot of Linux software supports arm and those that do either don't work with touchscreens or have them as an afterthought.
:::
::: spoiler UX
The software that does work generals isnt designed with small screens in mind and are very often scaled down desktop apps
:::
::: spoiler Basic functionality
Basic functionality is absolutely not there on Linux phones, things like calling and texing either require commands or outright dont work at all. For example according to the Postmarketos Wiki in order to change volume on a Pixel 3a during a call you need to manually change it with commands. Genuenly what the fuck, if im on an important call the other person isnt going to wait several hours for me to fiddle with the terminal. If I need to send a text now im not waiting several hours until it works.
:::
::: spoiler Security
Mobile Linux has all the security issues as Linux with no mitigations, except phones contain a lot more personal information and are more likley to be a target for data extraction.
:::
Samsung One UI Removed Bootloader Unlock – What It Means for Users in 2025
Samsung One UI removed bootloader unlock officially in latest update. Learn what this change means for custom ROM users, developers, and how it affects Android enthusiasts.Pavithran (TrendsLife)
Yeah this is bad but not even devastating for custom roms like GOS or LineageOS
Not yet. It's a concerning trend. It's certainly put a strain on their already-limited resources.
I highly doubt Google would lock the bootloader
...why not?
Also Samsung hasnt acturally allowed custom roms for a while now while Xiaomi doesn't either.
They had unlocked bootloaders. Now they don't. That's all I can say about that.
Even if a developer used the Play Integrity API it doesn't mean custom roms or other operating systems like GOS arent supported.
That's...exactly what that means. That's the entire point.
have had no issues with play integrity
Oh well I suppose if you have no issues, no one else is either? No. You're just not using the apps in question. But once again, it is a concerning growing trend. More and more apps are implementing it.
I doubt this will be strongly enforced
Why would Google lie about this?
As of now
As you might have read in the first sentence of the OP, I was not suggesting installing it now.
So what is our alternative? I get that we need to start working on an actual viable open platform, but it seems like the difficulty is mostly hardware and device manufacturers locking the bootloader at this point, isn't it? So is that where we need to go? To make the "Raspberry Pi" of mobile phones?
I'm happy to help, I just don't have the free time to spearhead a whole project.
I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: furilabs.com/
Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.
Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:
* clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-…
* news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1f…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j…
* theregister.com/2025/02/03/fur…
I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.
FuriPhone FLX1: A Debian-powered brick that puts GNOME in your back pocket
: Fun with a FOSS-focused Phosh fondleslabLiam Proven (The Register)
I've been a mobile dev for many years, I fell in love with the Nokia 810 with maemo which kinda got me started, but I never had one myself. I moved to OpenMoko and saved to buy a Neo. But then Android became big with Google's support and all companies rushing to have an alternative to iOS with the iPhone. Back then when Android meant openness. As much as I loved the openmoko project it had plenty of issues as a daily driver, so eventually I cracked and moved to Android with a Galaxy S2, ah, the innocence back then when one could think Google was actually different... Actually doing good and creating a great Linux phone.
I absolutely agree on all your points. It is time to kill Android as a free/open source idea if it is not dead yet. And you know what, Linux is absolutely ready to substitute anything as a mobile platform. It needs more polishing in terms of UI but Maemo nearly 20 years ago already offered a great UX IMO. Thank you Microsoft and all Nokia management for destroying it.
Now, I say Linux as a mobile platform is ready... But we all know it doesn't lack problems. What are those? The problems come from anticompetitive practices, locked hardware for chips, drivers and so on, specially all related to phone networking. The other main problem is apps which is only a small issue with all the ways there are available to make android apps run on Linux, that is... Until google comes to fuck things up with the points #3 and #4 you make. Those are the biggest threats right now, and it's no wonder Google is doing that. They are preventing the possibility of competition arising. Like I said, I have been a dev for many years, it absolutely sucks the path all tech is taking. But there are solutions, just need to have proper anticompetitive practices and protections... At least in Europe we kinda do, but more needs to be done.
The main point is, Linux as an alternative is kinda ready, if only there was a real posible competition to be had outside of being incredibly rich.
The discussions here are quite passionate so a bit of a reality check :
"PineStore has also discontinued the PinePhone Pro which was talked about in the last recent blog post. TLDR, sales were low". pine64.org/2025/08/16/august_2…
So... people here say they do want one, but clearly not like that one.
Also recently the crowd funding of indiegogo.com/projects/liberux… barely reached 10% of €1,434,375 Fixed Goal with just 135 backers.
So... also clearly not that one either.
So what accelerated development do people not just want to claim they do want, but actually pay for?
August Update: Note-able Tablet Updates
Hello RSS users! In this update we announce a new community manager, updates to the PineTab2 and PineNote, FreeBSD on the PinePhone Pro, a guide on upstreaming PinePhone Pro patches and a small bit for you Pinecil users.PINE64
what accelerated development do people not just want to claim they do want, but actually pay for?
The suggestion was that we need it, not that a large number of people want it.
The software development really needs to happen before hardware sales. Pretty pointless without it.
My next phone will run Linux, even if it is inconvenient.
As soon as this phone is paid off, I'll be changing from Google Fi as well. Which sucks because it's hella cheap.
I'm likely going to go to t-mobile as they're cheap from what I understand and they make up a big part of the network that google leases, along with (i think) US Cellular, or something similar.
That said, I've got about a year to decide, unless someone decides to hire me and then I can pay my phone off early.
~~apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.~~
I switched to Visible Wireless for now.
Is there a way to make the feed images big thumbnails like on thunder? I was looking around and didn't see a setting for that. That's really the only thing I'm not liking so far, everything else seems like an improvement.
Is there a GUI OpenVPN client app for Linux?
Edit:I know it is not perfect but I have found that the windscribe VPN Client for Linux supports adding your own VPN config files (both OpenVPN and WireGuard) and has a nice GUI . You don't need to have a windscribe account to use it either. I don't know if other VPNs clients also support this or not
Just in case it helps - I followed this guide to get Mint's Network Manager working with the Cisco AnyConnect OpenVPN thing (needed it for work) which worked well for me, I guess the steps should be fairly similar for other stuff.
Edit: fat fingers made me type "caze" instead of "case".
Every desktop has a GUI for VPNs, there's the official OpenVPN client, Tunnelblick builds on Linux, and there's SoftEther, but I kind of hate it.
The built in DE setups are the most streamlined and clean. Every option uses the same underlying libraries anyway.
American APCs packed with explosives become key IDF weapon in Gaza genocide
In recent days, the IDF has significantly increased its use of explosive-laden armored personnel carriers (APCs), that are composed of older M113 models rigged with explosives, which can also be operated remotely, as part of preparations for a ground maneuver in the heart of Gaza City.
At the onset of the genocide, the IDF’s Technological and Logistics Directorate developed a method to repurpose these APCs into offensive weapons. They are loaded with large quantities of explosives and then transported into the Gaza Strip and detonated remotely.
More recently, reports have surfaced regarding the development of explosive barrels that can be dropped by the APCs along streets lined with mines, amplifying their destructive impact. The force of these explosions is so intense that they can be heard over 100km. away from the Gaza Strip.
IDF repurposes old APC into giant bombs | The Jerusalem Post
The IDF’s Southern Command has tripled the use of armored personnel carriers (APCs) during ground maneuvers, but in a new and explosive way.The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com
like this
Maeve likes this.
Disgusting, also a complete waste of an M113 and it really shows the IDF is a machine of mass civilian murder and can hardly be called an actual military at all.
Ukraine would have used those M113s to save the lives of soldiers, Israel uses them for genocide and mass murder.
Compare the way the IDF, supposedly a professional fighting force, uses their M113s vs the way Ukraine does.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVda77r…
All the IDF sees in this tool is a convenient way to build a remote child killing bomb meant to sufficiently level people's homes to utterly erase them from the landscape and history.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.m.youtube.com
Children’s literature professor fired by Texas university over ‘gender’ content
“I’m not sure this is legal to be teaching,” the student says. “According to our president, there’s only two genders and he said he would be freezing agencies’ funding programs that promote gender ideology. And this also very much goes against, not only myself but a lot of people’s religious beliefs.”
...
“It is unacceptable for A&M system faculty to push a political agenda,” Glenn Hegar, the school’s chancellor, said in a statement. “Early investigations appear to indicate this course failed to comply with clear instructions to align course descriptions with course materials.”
Texas A&M passed an audit earlier this year to ensure that the school complies with a new state law banning DEI in public universities, according to the Battalion, the student newspaper.
Children’s literature professor fired by Texas university over ‘gender’ content
Texas A&M also removes two senior administrators from roles after student’s video sparked Republican pressureSam Levine (The Guardian)
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Re: Steam server room after release of Hollow Knight: Silksong (2025, colorized)
I'm old enough to remember the excitement and horror of the half life 2 release. They've had a massive CDN backing them for ages now though.
Also did I just spot an Irish Lemmy server?
Re: Steam server room after release of Hollow Knight: Silksong (2025, colorized)
khannie@lemmy.world for the HL2 release, it was probably more of a challenge given how young Steam was at the time.
Not Lemmy, but nodeBB. 😀
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American M113 APC vehicles retrofitted with RC controls and filled up with American explosives.
In recent days, the IDF has significantly increased its use of explosive-laden armored personnel carriers (APCs), that are composed of older M113 models rigged with explosives, which can also be operated remotely, as part of preparations for a ground maneuver in the heart of Gaza City.
jpost.com/defense-and-tech/art…
IDF repurposes old APC into giant bombs | The Jerusalem Post
The IDF’s Southern Command has tripled the use of armored personnel carriers (APCs) during ground maneuvers, but in a new and explosive way.The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com
NATO vehicles. NATO bombs. NATO countries NATO supply chain. NATO funding.
"NATO isn't doing this"
Yes.
Turkey provides Israel with 30% of their gas.
Iceland has this guy running free lemmy.world/post/35387057 and they are super racist. And they are probably investing money in Israel if I look it up.
You buy a gun from a store and ammo and then you kill someone, the arms company is responsable for your actions?
Also dont mix up Amerikas actions with all of NATO
Yes the arms company is responsible for selling you a gun when you are literally Adolf Hitler in the middle of the Holocaust.
Also America and Europe are paying for the weapons.
In the Gaza genocide no. In the West Bank yes.
You seem to avoid the point that these vehicle suicide bombs are 100% NATO funded and supplied.
NATO countries with "military export bans" are sending F35 parts and other weapons including interceptors to Israel through the NATO logistics program.
They are using NATO ports and NATO logistics to send their NATO weapons. And purchasing Israeli designed weapons for their own NATO military after Israel is done testing them on Palestinians in Gaza.
There is one overarching factor making this genocide possible: NATO.
The NATO countries? Yeah it is them. Using the NATO chain to supply Israel. They could of course stop being complicit in the NATO genocide of Gaza. But they refuse.
Not sure what the point here is.
Wait a minute hold up
Who made these APC which are exploding in the video and made the explosives which are put in the APC and then sent them to Israel?
Whatabout russia and china is monumental cope
Why cant you admit that nato is responsible and should be held responsible the same way as any other entity that did not discontinue weapons transfers to israel after the siege began?
Oh its american mic weapons? Okay, nato is an american defense pact.
Why are you trying to dismiss culpability as if European nations dont actively support and enable the genocide in the exact same material capacity as america? Take your lumps.
It literally isn't "monumental cope" Israel imports more from China than any other country, helping to fund what they do.
I can't admit nato is responsible because it's not, nato is a defensive pact, the countries that are part of nato are the problem, not the organization, it is also not "an American defense pact", there are many countries involved.
I literally said some European countries are responsible? But if you want to go to "NATO" being responsible it's clearly china's fault, because they allow the Israeli capitalism to flourish, allowing Aipac to bribe the Americans (see how fucking stupid that sounds?)
No it only sounds stupid when you say that china allows Israeli capitalism to thrive.
Getting hung up on the descriptor of nato countries being responsible for arming and funding the genocide is a deliberate obfuscation and refusal to acknowledge that these countries coordinate their military intelligence/technology and are connected through nato. Nato isnt like the UN where it's some separate body from the member states, the member states ARE nato.
i/e nato is responsible for supplying israel with weapons = america, France, germany, Britain, turkey, etc are supplying israel with weapons.
If russia, brazil, china, and iran were funding Israeli genocide we would be saying "brics is funding genocide in gaza" and you would unironically accept that framing even though brics is itself an economic pact whereas nato is explicitly a military defense pact. It is a descriptor, used because spelling out all 32 nato nations who are complicit is a waste of time when you can just say "nato is responsible for these weapons being used against palestinians" and it conveys the exact same meaning to anyone who isnt a pedant.
NATO is not a defensive pact regardless of how much marketing campaigns (read: Western propaganda) is churned out. Look up what they did in Yugoslavia and Libya for good examples of their "defensiveness".
Every single NATO country materially supports the settler-colony, regardless if they advertise it to be their genocide or not, no amount of "But china but russia but.." will change that. "Israel" is not a distinct state but an amalgamation of European (and more recently US and commonwealthian, whom hail from settler-colonies) settler-colonialist Zionazis occupying Palestine. Get that through your head.
*Cause bombing civilians is defensive group would do
Bombing civilians is bad, but they weren't just bombing civilians, they were preventing ethnic cleansing.
Declassified: BBC and MI6 Kosovo War Propaganda Blitz
All my investigations are free to read, thanks to the generosity of my readers.Kit Klarenberg (Global Delinquents)
nato is a defensive pact
- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023:
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discreetly Internationalized It - CounterPunch.org
When the United States entered WWII, the future head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, bemoaned that his country was fighting the wrong enemy.Gabriel Rockhill (CounterPunch.org)
- As if you’d actually read the articles.
- And when it isn’t written that way, it’s harder to tell the bias. When the NYT “neutralizes” language regarding the Palestinian genocide, is it removing its bias or obscuring it?
- Your media literacy could use improvement.
Leaked NYT Gaza Memo Tells Journalists to Avoid Words “Genocide,” “Ethnic Cleansing,” and “Occupied Territory”
An internal style memo from New York Times editors tells reporters not to use words like “genocide” or “Palestine” when covering Israel’s war on Gaza.Jeremy Scahill (The Intercept)
And when things are written factually there is less bias.
How many emotive words are in a text is orthogonal to how many facts are in a text.
I get that you want to tie NATO to Israel's genocide, but I think you may have an easier time of just isolating Israel.
People recognize that fucked up shit is going down and will agree with you, and will agree more readily (maybe even act) if they don't perceive themselves as having to catch flak from their own side.
That is to say: divide and conquer.
Everyone has unanimously recognized Israel is doing a genocide. What is stunning is that NATO members continue to supply the genocide with weapons. Which Israel could not commit the genocide without.
So it is indeed time to divide and conquer. By pointing out that this genocide is in only possible and fully endorsed by the Nazi infested European and American NATO members which provide it the weapons and funding with unconditional support. No matter how many brown women and children they slaughter to advance their white superiority Nazi agenda.
You are welcome to point out any flaws in this logic. But besides reactionary denial nobody seems to want to face the reality. This is the NATO genocide of Gaza.
Stick a stick in those blokes’ spokes,
Now god’s chosens’ noses broke.
I watched the entire Tour de France, and was surprised there weren't any protests like this against Israel Premier Tech. Protests at the TDF are pretty common.
It's also interesting that while the team is based in and sponsored by Israel, there is only one Israeli rider on the team riding the Vuelta right now. And back in July during the TDF not a single rider on their roster was Israeli.
Seismic detection of a 600-km solid inner core in Mars
Seismic detection of a 600-km solid inner core in Mars - Nature
An analysis of seismic data acquired by the InSight mission demonstrates that Mars has a 600-km solid inner core.Nature
A new Linux user posting an anti Linux meme on a Linux community, on Lemmy. Well, I wish I had a tenth of your courage.
I do hope they go easy on you, brave soul.
Mandatory "I use arch btw..."
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nvidia-dkms in the list of pacman updates. It's good to get some thrills, just to feel alive.
"Windows has inconsistency with icons and design in some areas."
I prefer Linux, but what? Oh, hello pot! Have you met my friend kettle?
Labour council leader called rape gang victims ‘white trash'
cross-posted from: lemy.lol/post/51666631
Dennis Jones, the leader of Peterborough City Council, made the comments in late-night exchanges with a younger councillor, Daisy Blakemore Creedon.When she raised concerns about immigration and women's safety, Jones lashed out: "Oh so white British cops fucking poor white trash in Rotherham is OK, is it? Get a fucking grip, Daisy."
Labour council leader called rape gang victims ‘white trash'
Dennis Jones, the leader of Peterborough City Council, made the comments in late-night exchanges with a younger councillor, Daisy Blakemore Creedon.When she raised concerns about immigration and women's safety, Jones lashed out: "Oh so white British cops fuckingg poor white trash in Rotherham is OK, is it? Get a fucking grip, Daisy."
Labour council leader called rape gang victims ‘white trash'
Dennis Jones, the leader of Peterborough City Council, made the comments in late-night exchanges with a younger councillor, Daisy Blakemore Creedon.
When she raised concerns about immigration and women's safety, Jones lashed out: "Oh so white British cops fuckingg poor white trash in Rotherham is OK, is it? Get a fucking grip, Daisy."
China unveils brain-inspired AI that could redefine efficiency
China unveils brain-inspired AI that could redefine efficiency
Chinese researchers have developed a new AI system, SpikingBrain-1.0, that breaks from the resource-hungry Transformer architecture used by models like ChatGPT. This new model, inspired by the human brain's neural mechanisms, charts a new course forGong Zhe (CGTN)
Voyager might not be happy with these images
geneva_convenience
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