Israeli strikes and gunfire kill 59 in Gaza as ceasefire pressure mounts
Health officials say Israeli strikes and gunfire have killed at least 59 people across Gaza. This comes as international pressure grows for a ceasefire, but Israel's leader remains defiant.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/apnews.com/a…
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
Big Tech Dreams of Putting Data Centers in Space
A sci-fi idea is gaining supporters, from billionaires to city councils. Whether it’s feasible is another matter.
Archived version: archive.is/20250920120913/wire…
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Brazil's president has signed a ban on selling loot boxes to minors as part of a larger online child safety law
The loot box ban will go into effect in March.
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24 Pakistanis among 27 crew aboard LNG gas tanker attacked by Israel at Yemen port
Interior Minister Mohsin Naqvi said on Saturday that an Israeli drone attacked a liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) tanker with 27 crew members, including 24 Pakistanis, while docked at a Yemeni port earlier this month, Anadolu reports.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/middleeastmo…
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Warner Bros Joins Disney In Suing Sling TV For Making Streaming Video Cheaper And More Convenient
Earlier this month we noted how Disney and ESPN had sued Sling TV for the cardinal sin of actually trying to innovate. Sling TV’s offense: releasing new, more convenient day, weekend, or week-long shorter term streaming subscriptions that provided an affordable way to watch live television.
Warner Bros Joins Disney In Suing Sling TV For Making Streaming Video Cheaper And More Convenient
Earlier this month we noted how Disney and ESPN had sued Sling TV for the cardinal sin of actually trying to innovate. Sling TV’s offense: releasing new, more convenient day, weekend, or week…Techdirt
Americans think crime is increasing across U.S. – just not in their city, poll finds
Almost half of Americans said that crime, which was the third biggest concern behind inflation and political polarization, had increased across the whole country
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More Ships Join Greta Thunberg's Gaza Flotilla to Break Blockade
Further ten ships will join the fleet with Greta Thunberg and other activists who will sail towards Gaza to break Israel's blockade
Archived version: archive.is/newest/swedenherald…
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Reports: EA set to be sold to private investors for up to $50 billion
Saudi investment fund, Jared Kushner are reportedly among the interested buyers…
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Zelenskyy says he knows exact target of Hungarian spy drones in Ukraine
Hungary's drone surveillance of Ukrainian industrial facilities follows the 2025 discovery of a Hungarian military intelligence network in Zakarpattia.
Archived version: archive.is/20250928043731/euro…
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Switzerland votes on electronic identity cards for second time
The proposal was revised after voters rejected the idea in 2021 amid concerns over data protection.
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The US navy killed 17 in deadly strikes. Now Venezuela is giving civilians guns
Tensions between the two countries have increased after the US Navy targeted boats off the coast of Venezuela.
Archived version: archive.is/20250928001122/bbc.…
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Visual evidence upends Israel’s official story for deadly attack on Gaza hospital
The Israeli military had said they targeted a Hamas camera in an August strike, but a Reuters investigation found the device actually belonged to the news agency. An Israeli military official now says troops fired without required approval. Five journalists died in the attack. Their deaths are among some 200 journalist killings by Israel that it has yet to fully explain.
Archived version: archive.is/20250927131044/reut…
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Beyond Left and Right. Digital ID is Everyone’s Enemy
Beyond Left and Right. Digital ID is Everyone’s Enemy
The ruling class dresses up its schemes as progress. Every new mechanism of control is sold as convenience, safety, or efficiency. Digital ID is their latest trick. Governments and corporations cla…The Polar Bl@st
This Family Will Return Home After Helene. Their Onerous Journey to Rebuild Shows Why Many Others Won’t.
One North Carolina Family’s Journey to Rebuild After Hurricane Helene: Watch
One year after the hurricane’s devastation, the Hills are among the first in their community to almost finish rebuilding their home. They are the lucky ones who succeeded in navigating an arduous federal disaster aid system.ProPublica
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What Liberals Get Wrong About Trump’s Executive Order on Antifa
What Liberals Get Wrong About Trump’s Executive Order on Antifa
Liberals dismiss antifa as just an idea. That opens up the activists, researchers, and organizers to a real risk of persecution.Matthew Whitley (The Intercept)
I Am on Kirk’s “Professor Watchlist.” I Know How It Destroys Civil Debate.
I Am on Kirk’s “Professor Watchlist.” I Know How It Destroys Civil Debate. | Truthout
I deeply value free speech and debate. The watchlist created by Charlie Kirk’s Turning Point USA is anathema to both.Anton Woronczuk (Truthout)
Police drone tracks Walmart theft suspect in real time
A California police department's drone program helped officers track down and arrest a suspected repeat shoplifter who attempted to flee on a stolen bicycle Tuesday morning and might otherwise have gotten away, officials said.
The incident happed at a Walmart in Clovis, California, where police were called just after 8 a.m. for a known shoplifting suspect. The department's "Drone First Responder" (DFR) program proved crucial in the arrest, officials said.
"The suspect at Walmart stole a bicycle from inside the store, which the staff thought he would, and he took off on that bike," Clovis Police Public Information Officer Ty Wood told ABC News Fresno station.
The suspect, identified by police as 19-year-old Sean Baker, was tracked by the drone as he crossed a nearby street. He now faces charges including shoplifting, possession of burglary tools and obstructing an officer, according to police.
The police spokesperson told ABC News that the department's DFR program currently operates two drones, which can cover more than 90% of community. The department has already ordered a third drone for next year, the spokesperson said.
"We realize that drones are not going to be taking the place of a law enforcement helicopter, but with a city our size, we can't afford a helicopter. These drone first responders are definitely a game changer," the spokesperson told ABC News.
The drones, which typically fly at 200 feet, are equipped with advanced camera systems.
"These cameras are fantastic," Wood told ABC30. "We have the ability to see license plates and get physical descriptions of suspects."
A key advantage of the program is the drones' ability to arrive at scenes before officers. The spokesperson said responding officers can view live drone footage from their patrol car computers while en route to calls.
The suspect "went behind other retail businesses and he would have been lost if it weren't for the drone," Wood told ABC30.
The department, which serves a community of over 129,000 residents, launched its drone program in 2020, according to the spokesperson. The initiative has since become an important part of the department's Real Time Information Center (RTIC), which combines various surveillance systems used for public safety.
Police drone tracks Walmart theft suspect in real time: Police
A California police department's drone program helped officers track down and arrest a suspected repeat shoplifter, officials said.Doc Louallen (ABC News)
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The department, which serves a community of over 129,000 residents, launched its drone program in 2020,
no amount is too much for catching a bike thief /s
5 years of "drone program" for a community of 129000. They can sleep better now that the "suspected shop lifter" is at last arrested 🤷 those police toys must have been expensive, if they're making news about this
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My god, you people are insufferable.
I'm glad you're not in positions to make decisions that actually have an impact on the world.
These forums are you containment zones.
Of course, maintain the hierarchy of capital which sees most humans as serving the hierarchy and terminating those who defy "the order" for "their own good" of course, because as the central tenets of this religion asserts, exploitation of capital benefits "everyone". As in, this meritocracy structure allows anyone to become King Bezos through "hard work"(*).
Since anyone could become king meritocatically, therefore they all benefit from the equal and just potential, to receive "each according to their needs and from each according to their ability" anyone who opposes this system in fact opposes their own interests and those of other, therefore justifying the deployment of unlimited violence to neutralize the threat, for everyone's interests including the perpetrator.
can you pls explain what you mean in more depth?
your original post is sufficiently vague that tbh i don't blame people for assuming you were just bootlicking? [which probably says more about the state of the world than you as an individual, but honestly it's not clear what you're trying to say?]
we all know a random citizen/local business presenting an identical calibre of evidence of repeated crimes would be extremely unlikely to routinely receive this degree of resource allocation.
so if it's an idealised aspirational universal "order" you're talking about then obviously noone's buying it - and i don't think you are either. so what do you mean?
Personally, I don't care what the morons on these forums end up assuming. They're incorrect more often than they're right, and each mistake makes me value their input even less.
Law enforcement exists to maintain order. I made no arguments on whether or not that should be the case, but the tribalist morons took my "wavering loyalty" as treachery and the dogpile ensued with everyone trying to fit in with each other.
I'm glad I can recognize these people for who they are, since nobody else will.
Fight Chat Control - Protect Digital Privacy in the EU
Learn about the EU Chat Control proposal and contact your representatives to protect digital privacy and encryption.fightchatcontrol.eu
Or they can give up chat control right now, they can give up that BS a-n-y-t-i-m-e
But if not, then taking out Russia and mildly inconveniencing states that are developping an authoritarian bent in their digital space, that's a win-win
My point is that you're arguing that Russia (which is currently ruled by a genocidal, authoritarian regime and is trying to force all of its citizens onto state-controlled social media to monitor everyone) would be a good ally in the fight to keep E2EE alive.
The amount of cognitive dissonance in your comments is disturbing
The only counter we currently have to state power is leveraging other states, getting them to fight one another until they're so damage that they let go of their fascistic plans to enslave and tag the entire population. Russia isn't going to politely send delegate to advocate against total state surveillance, they're doing it, every state is turning fasch and doing it. They are to embolden, to empowered and they don't respect of fear the population.
The only way to counter this trend is by distracting them with an existential crisis. They need "something" to save us from, when we are too safe and they are too powerful, they start treating us, as the enemy, as their pets, as their farm animal, cattle, we can't stop them doing that but we can send them to clash against enemy states to dissipate their violent, dominating, malignant energy
Officers can view live drone footage from their patrol car computers..
Interesting. I wonder who else can view that live video stream.
Yes, "you can look at it while parked" but the spokesperson specifically said:
"responding officers can view live drone footage from their patrol car computers while en route to calls."
Sweeping UN sanctions on Iran come into effect after nuclear talks fail
Sanctions bar dealings related to Tehran’s nuclear and ballistic missiles program and are also expected to have wider effects on its troubled economy
Archived version: archive.is/newest/theguardian.…
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
Today
Europe: Imposes sactions with a goal to hurt their economy
Tomorrow
Iran: Moves economic ties to other countries sanctioned by Europe
Europe: shocked pikachu face
Thousands protest livestreamed murder of 2 women, young girl in Argentina
Drug gang suspected in torture and murder of two young women, and a 15-year-old girl, in crime that shocks Argentina.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/aljazeera.co…
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
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Technology reshared this.
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This is why I think LLMs have made the world worse even if I don't buy the fear-mongering. Regardless of the costs to train LLMs, the costs of having those tools available are worse than the benefits. The amount of extra work bug bounty programs have had to do thanks to AI is crazy.
Come to think of it, there are black markets for selling computer security vulnerabilities between nation-states. Maybe our governments can start flooding those with AI generated security exploits. That'd be funny.
This was a really great read. The numbers don’t lie: 7 companies each independently invested 100 bn in AI and have seen little revenue in return (relatively speaking). When overlaying that on top of its impact on the us stock market as a whole, once the veil has been lifted that this is not leading to super intelligence, a bubble will burst and the entire economy will feel it.
That doesn't mean "nothing to see here, move on." It means that AI isn't the bow-wave of "impending superintelligence." Nor is it going to deliver "humanlike intelligence."It's a grab-bag of useful (sometimes very useful) tools that can sometimes make workers' lives better, when workers get to decide how and when they're used.
This is the part that is overlooked when discussing anti-ai hype: these tools are very useful, but they appear only useful to the skilled laborer wielding them, instead of the investor claim that they will be replaced.
Suriname pledges to shield 90% of forests, far beyond global conservation goal
Suriname has pledged to permanently protect 90% of its forests, far surpassing the global 30x30 goal.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/apnews.com/a…
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YouTube Music is testing AI hosts that will interrupt your tunes
YouTube Labs will be a place to preview all the app’s upcoming AI features.
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Colombia | Petro Calls for Moving UN HQ After Trump Admin Revokes His Visa Over Protest Speech
"What the US government is doing to me breaks all the norms of immunity on which the functioning of the United Nations and its General Assembly is based," Petro said.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/commondreams…
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Petro continued. "The United Nations headquarters cannot continue to be in New York."
Just move it to Ottowa.
Does Canada uphold binding international law? The answer is No.
As Prof. Matthews points out: "This dramatic development marks the first time leaders of a western allied state have been accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity at the ICC." Apparently, Canada believes that binding international law does not apply to western allied states.
Noem Expedited Disaster Aid to Tourist Attraction After Wealthy Donor Intervened
As others languished without FEMA’s help, Noem flew to Florida to tout the $11 million project and meet with the donor.
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‘No War Crimes Are Off Limits' as Trump Reportedly Mulling Bombing Targets in Venezuela
NBC reported Friday that the US military is considering options including drone strikes against drug cartel members within the South American country, prompting fears of escalation.
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Starmer used land tax dodge to avoid inheritance tax
Keir Starmer has been accused of – and neither he nor No 10 have denied – that he used a tax dodge to avoid inheritance tax on his parents’ estate, by giving them land through a ‘trust’ that would ultimately come back to him along with the rest of their estate, without incurring inheritance tax.
Starmer used land tax dodge to avoid inheritance tax
Keir Starmer has been accused of - and neither he nor No 10 have denied - that he used a tax dodge to avoid inheritance tax on his parents' estate, bySkwawkbox (The Canary)
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Mozilla Integrates Google Lens for Visual Search in Firefox Desktop
Mozilla is introducing Google Lens-powered visual search to Firefox desktop, enabling users to right-click images for contextual searches in an opt-in feature that prioritizes privacy. This partnership aims to boost engagement amid AI-driven browser innovations, though it raises questions about Google dependency and competitive dynamics. The phased rollout invites community feedback.
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Yes, though not always as accessible.
The problem with electric cars is two fold as far as I understand it:
- The electricity it uses is not sustainable.
- It has lots of tracking etc and in some cases remote control.
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While the power source that generated the electricity is not necessarily sustainable, power plants should have more at scale Features to limit the pollutants than a traditional petrol engine.
Or at least the power plants should if one lives in a civilized society....
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civilized society
I'm sorry sir but such a thing does not exist, I fear you must have dreamed it.
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The problem with EVs is that in almost all ways other than local pollution they are just as bad as ICE vehicles. They
- need massive amounts of asphalted space for roadways and parking
- use this space very inefficiently and cause traffic congestion at any given spike in traffic
- drive urban sprawl and thus make housing less sustainable (more sewage,water supply, electric supply, heating, roads/person required)
- urban sprawl stretches everything far apart and makes public transit much less feasible so people who can't drive cars struggle to get places, for example kids can't walk to school or take public transit, instead must be driven
- are loud (because tyres rolling is the driving source of noise)
- are dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists
- their dangers and tendency to cause traffic congestion inhibit other, more efficient and sustainable modes of transport so that when not regulated properly, they take over all of the streetscape as is evident in most western places
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This is a general complaint about vehicles, not necessarily EVs, and extends to trucks, motorcycles, and basically anything that gives humans more range than their feet.
This position would probably be best directed at the city planning office.
This is a general complaint about vehicles, not necessarily EVs
Yes, that's like the whole point of my post, being E doesn't fix 90% of the issues caused by individual motorised transport vehicles. And city planning can't do anything about these inherent issues either, they can merely decide to make good, sustainable cities or car friendly cities. Good city planning policies stand in direct contrast to the amount of cars expected to be driven.
And I'm saying this not to shit on EVs, they must clearly replace ICE vehicles as soon as possible, but to warn that they will not fix the unsustainable state of affairs in transportation. Loads of people appear to actually believe they do and that's sort of dangerous. We're not gonna fix jack shit if we just transition these vehicles to being electric while further increasing car dependency and sprawl. We're gonna make it even worse.
My comment is not about what people claim about EVs but how they actually are.
I'm not going to claim that EVs are loud.
I'm going to state it as a fact: EVs are loud. About as loud as ICE cars. I live on a busy street, so I know that this is beyond dispute. The tire noise and wind resistance dominate the noise produced above about 30 kph. ICE vehicles these days have efficient engines and good soundproofing. Many are virtually silent if they go past my house slowly.
Unexpectedly, the hybrid-electric city buses that go past are among the quietest vehicles. They must use tires designed for a quiet, comfortable ride, because all I hear is a slight whoosh, even when they pass by in the quiet, wee hours of the morning.
(To be fair, EVs with quiet tires and moving <30kph are virtually silent, too.)
I'd say long term, neither of those should be problems
The electricity it uses is not sustainable.
Many EV users also go for solar panels to alleviate energy costs. Also as a country's electrical grid modernises, it should make use of a greater share of renewables given they're cheaper than the alternatives now.
It has lots of tracking etc and in some cases remote control.
Slightly less certain, but I'd hope this kind of thing is legislated away at some point. There's also always customer choice, there will be manufacturers that compete on the privacy angle if enough of us care
The main problem with EVs is it doesn't solve any of the problems inherent to cars being treated as the main mode of transportation in a given area. Places like that will see EVs as the solution compared to an alternative of investing into better public transit infrastructure.
Infrastructure that is basically inevitable, since we know now that any town/city that eschews anything but car transit will ultimately bankrupt themselves on road maintenance alone.
I would suggest different downsizes:
- EVs are much heavies, and they wear down the road, and everything else
- tire particles are going to be the next problem after fossil fuels
Solution: trains, more trains, even more trains.
Like ~15 years ago I heard peter singer saying that the emissions from the lifetime use of a car were lower than those from making it, so you should only ever buy a second hand car.
That was before widespread EVs though.
I often wonder how long you have to use a 2nd hand gas car for, before the emissions outstrip those of making a brand new EV.
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threeish years apparently, given you run it on green electricity.
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Well, there is a good chance the data is distorted for fossil interests. It's from 2021 too!
2025 vehicles are miles ahead! (Literally).
They have those solid-state batteries that charge in 5 minutes. There is the lightyear prototype that was insanely expensive...but it could run for decades given optimal light, and 40km/h or bellow speed with it's solar panels.
source is polestar and rivian, as noted in the graphic.
solid-state batteries are not yet viable at vehicle scale.
lightyear went bankrupt in 2023.
Something is screwy with the power generation part of that graphic, or the person who made it is basing it on a country that doesn't have much wind or solar power.
In the UK there are cheap tariffs for overnight electricity because of all the wind power.
If you're in America, you're pretty much fucked for green transport in any case. Canada has some great trolly bus and underground public transport because of all the hydroelectric power. My home city has only been buying electric buses for a long while now.
i'm confused. you say "those wind turbines" but we're talking about loads, not generators.
on average, the world has less than 15% of its energy needs met by renewables.
incidentally, the us has the second most intstalled solar capacity of any single country, about 2/3rds that of europe.
wind turbines seem to average at 10kg CO~2~eq/MWh over their lifetime, but since they are not "plannable" power you always need something else to meet demand. if that something else is a gas peaker plant (490kg CO~2~eq/MWh), you're screwed emissions wise.
Edit: Here's a chart of the total CO~2~eq for the different regions of the world. using the 2021 EU number of 235g/kWh, 26 tonnes of total charging emissions would require you to fully charge a 2021 polestar 2 standard range 26 000 000g ÷ 235g ÷ 64kWh ≈ 1728 times, which would give the car a lifetime of between four and sixteen years, depending on your driving style (lower end you charge it every day, which is not realistic, higher end you charge once or twice a week). if we use the 2021 world average of 369g, that gives us 1101 full charges, or 3-10 years depending on driving style.
Estimating carbon dioxide emissions from gas plants - Global Energy Monitor
The following factors are used to estimate the CO2 emissions from gas-fired power plants:Global Energy Monitor
I wanted to double-check my numbers so i found a reddit thread asking people how often they charge their cars, and tried to extract info from it using mistral (so take it with a grain of salt. it gave sources but i managed to close the page after screenshotting).
::: spoiler transcript
User: how many times a week do people in this reddit thread charge their cars on average? old.reddit.com/r/electriccars/…
Mistral: In the Reddit thread you linked, most EV owners report charging their cars about 2–3 times per week on average. Many users mentioned plugging in their EVs at home whenever convenient, often overnight, rather than waiting for the battery to run low. Some charge daily out of habit, while others charge every few days depending on their driving needs and battery range. The majority have access to home charging, which makes frequent top-ups easy and convenient.
Charging Frequency (from user comments):
- About 30–40% of users charge daily, often overnight at home, regardless of battery level.
- Another 30–40% charge 2–3 times per week, usually when their battery drops below a certain range (e.g., 100 miles or 50%).
- The remaining 20–30% charge less frequently, such as once a week or only when needed for longer trips.
Typical Charging Behavior:
- Many users set their charge limit to 60–80% for daily use to preserve battery health.
- Some Tesla owners (especially with LFP batteries) keep their cars plugged in most of the time, charging to 100% without issue.
- Users with shorter commutes (e.g., <50 miles/day) often charge every 2–3 days, while those with longer commutes or less efficient EVs charge daily.
Range Added per Charge:
- Short Commutes (<50 miles/day): Many users add 50–100 miles per charge, often charging every 2–3 days.
- Moderate Use (50–150 miles/day): Users in this group typically add 100–200 miles per session, charging daily or every other day.
- Longer Trips or Less Frequent Charging: Some users add 150–300 miles, charging once a week or as needed.
Summary Table (Based on Thread Comments)
| Miles Added Per Charge | Frequency Mentioned | Typical Use Case |
|---|---|---|
| 50–100 miles | Common | Short commutes, 2–3x/week |
| 100–150 miles | Very common | Daily commutes, overnight charge |
| 150–300 miles | Less common | Long trips, weekly charging |
Inference: Most home chargers add enough range to cover their daily driving, rarely letting the battery drop below 20–30%. The data is sufficient to infer that 50–150 miles per charge is the norm for regular use.
User: how about car models? are there enough mentions of which model people drive that we can figure out the average number of kWhs used per capita from the added range and the size of the battery of the mentioned models?
Mistral: The Reddit thread does mention several specific EV models, and we can use their battery sizes and the reported range added per charge to estimate average kWh used per person. Here’s what we know:
Commonly Mentioned Models & Battery Sizes
From the thread, the most frequently mentioned models include:
- Tesla Model 3 (Standard/Long Range): ~50–82 kWh
- Tesla Model Y (Standard/Long Range): ~60–81 kWh
- Hyundai Kona Electric: ~39–64 kWh
- Chevy Bolt: ~65 kWh
- Ford Mustang Mach-E: ~68–98 kWh
- Nissan Leaf: ~40–62 kWh
Reported Range Added per Charge
- Most users add 50–150 miles per charge.
- A few add 150–250 miles (usually for longer trips or less frequent charging).
Estimating kWh Used per Charge
Using the EPA efficiency ratings (miles per kWh) for these models, we can estimate kWh used per charge:
| Model | Battery Size (kWh) | EPA Efficiency (mi/kWh) | Reported Range Added | Estimated kWh Used Per Charge |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tesla Model 3 (LR) | 82 | 4.1 | 100–150 miles | 24–37 kWh |
| Tesla Model Y (LR) | 81 | 3.8 | 100–150 miles | 26–39 kWh |
| Hyundai Kona | 64 | 3.2 | 50–100 miles | 16–31 kWh |
| Chevy Bolt | 65 | 3.6 | 50–100 miles | 14–28 kWh |
| Ford Mach-E (ER) | 98 | 3.0 | 100–150 miles | 33–50 kWh |
| Nissan Leaf | 40–62 | 3.0 | 50–100 miles | 17–33 kWh |
Note: Efficiency varies with driving conditions, but these are reasonable averages.
Average kWh Used per Charge (Per Capita)
- For 50–100 miles added: ~15–35 kWh per charge
- For 100–150 miles added: ~25–50 kWh per charge
Most users fall in the 20–40 kWh per charge range, depending on their model and daily needs.
User: using the data on this page iea.org/reports/electricity-20… can we create a table for how much emissions each car would produce while charging in the listed regions? use the 2021 number.
Mistral: Here is a table estimating the CO2 emissions per 100 km for common EV models when charged in different regions, using 2021 CO2 emissions per kWh data from the IEA and typical battery sizes and efficiencies:
CO2 Emissions per 100 km for EVs by Region (2021 Data)
| Region | CO2 per kWh (g) | Tesla Model 3 (15 kWh/100 km) | Hyundai Kona (17 kWh/100 km) | Chevy Bolt (16 kWh/100 km) | Ford Mach-E (18 kWh/100 km) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| European Union | ~250 | 3.75 kg CO2 | 4.25 kg CO2 | 4.00 kg CO2 | 4.50 kg CO2 |
| United States | ~380 | 5.70 kg CO2 | 6.46 kg CO2 | 6.08 kg CO2 | 6.84 kg CO2 |
| China | ~550 | 8.25 kg CO2 | 9.35 kg CO2 | 8.80 kg CO2 | 9.90 kg CO2 |
| India | ~700 | 10.50 kg CO2 | 11.90 kg CO2 | 11.20 kg CO2 | 12.60 kg CO2 |
Notes & Assumptions
- CO2 per kWh (2021): EU ~250g, US ~380g, China ~550g, India ~700g.
- Energy use per 100 km: Based on EPA/real-world efficiency for each model.
- Calculation: (CO2 per kWh) × (kWh per 100 km) = kg CO2 per 100 km.
Key Takeaways
- EU and US: Lower emissions due to cleaner electricity grids.
- China and India: Higher emissions due to coal-heavy grids.
- Efficiency matters: More efficient cars (like the Tesla Model 3) emit less CO2 per km, even in high-emission regions.
User: data from polestar and rivian lifecycle analyses in 2021 estimates that over its lifetime, the electricity used by an "average" electric vecicle produces a total of 26 tonnes CO2eq. using the data we now have, can we estimate lower and upper bounds for the age of the mentioned models where they would have "produced" 26tCO2eq in different regions?
Mistral: Let’s use the kWh per charge and CO2 per kWh by region from our earlier tables to estimate how many years it would take for the mentioned EV models to reach 26 tonnes CO2eq from charging alone, based on typical charging habits.
Recap of Key Data
- kWh per charge (typical): 20–40 kWh
- CO2 per kWh (2021):
- EU: 250 g
- US: 380 g
- China: 550 g
- India: 700 g
- Charging frequency: 2–3 times per week (104–156 charges/year)
Calculations
1. CO2 per Charge (kg)
- EU: 20–40 kWh × 0.25 kg = 5–10 kg CO2/charge
- US: 20–40 kWh × 0.38 kg = 7.6–15.2 kg CO2/charge
- China: 20–40 kWh × 0.55 kg = 11–22 kg CO2/charge
- India: 20–40 kWh × 0.70 kg = 14–28 kg CO2/charge
2. Annual CO2 from Charging
- EU: 5–10 kg/charge × 104–156 charges = 520–1,560 kg CO2/year
- US: 7.6–15.2 kg/charge × 104–156 charges = 790–2,371 kg CO2/year
- China: 11–22 kg/charge × 104–156 charges = 1,144–3,432 kg CO2/year
- India: 14–28 kg/charge × 104–156 charges = 1,456–4,368 kg CO2/year
3. Years to Reach 26 Tonnes (26,000 kg) CO2eq
- EU: 26,000 ÷ (520–1,560) = 17–50 years
- US: 26,000 ÷ (790–2,371) = 11–33 years
- China: 26,000 ÷ (1,144–3,432) = 8–23 years
- India: 26,000 ÷ (1,456–4,368) = 6–18 years
Note: These are rough estimates based on charging habits and grid emissions, and do not include manufacturing or other lifecycle emissions.
User: let's see how they change with different charging frequencies.
Mistral: Here’s how the years to reach 26 tonnes CO2eq change with different charging frequencies (1x, 2x, 3x, and 4x per week), using the same kWh per charge (20–40 kWh) and 2021 grid emissions:
Assumptions
- kWh per charge: 20–40 kWh
- CO2 per kWh (2021): EU 250g, US 380g, China 550g, India 700g
Years to 26 Tonnes CO2eq by Charging Frequency
| Region | 1x/week ( 52 charges/yr) | 2x/week (104 charges/yr) | 3x/week (156 charges/yr) | 4x/week (208 charges/yr) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| EU | 34–100 years | 17–50 years | 11–33 years | 8–25 years |
| US | 22–66 years | 11–33 years | 7–22 years | 5–17 years |
| China | 15–45 years | 8–23 years | 5–15 years | 4–11 years |
| India | 12–36 years | 6–18 years | 4–12 years | 3–9 years |
User: what's the average scrapping age of vehicles in the listed regions?
Mistral: Here’s the average scrapping age of vehicles in the regions you asked about, based on the latest available data:
Average Scrapping Age by Region (2021–2024)
Region | Average Scrapping Age | Notes
-|--|-
European Union | ~12–17 years | EU average is 12.3 years; some countries (e.g., Greece, Estonia) average 17 years. Newer cars are found in Luxembourg (~7.9 years).
United States | ~12.6 years | As of 2024, the average age of cars and light trucks on the road is 12.6 years, with scrappage rates around 4.5–4.6% per year.
China | ~10–15 years | Most passenger vehicles are scrapped after 10–15 years, though policies are pushing for earlier scrappage of older, more polluting vehicles.
India | ~15 years | The national scrappage policy targets vehicles older than 15 years for mandatory scrapping, with incentives for voluntary scrappage of private cars over 15 years.
:::
my takeaway is that, if charged three times a week, which seems to be common, most ev's get to 26tCO~2~eq before being scrapped no matter their location.
The graph fails the plausibility check of "does using fossil fuelled car pollute about the same as EVs" and the graph trying to make out that they do. I too can ask AI questions, but I think AIs are full of shit. Here it is anyway, and the fossil fuel cars are getting a free pass for ALL the CO2 emissions during generation, which as per my other comment, are about 50 times higher assuming that oil extraction and refinery isn't actually better than natural gas:
CO2 Emissions Comparison
Assumptions
Electric Vehicle (EV):
* Average energy consumption: 20 kWh/100 km (or 0.2 kWh/km).
* Carbon intensity during overnight charging: 75 gCO2/kWh.
Petrol Engine:
* Average emissions: 150 gCO2/km (this can vary based on vehicle efficiency).
Diesel Engine:
* Average emissions: 120 gCO2/km (again, this can vary based on vehicle efficiency).
CO2 Emissions Calculation
Electric Vehicle (EV)
Energy consumption per mile:
* 1 km = 0.621371 miles, so 20 kWh/100 km = 20 kWh/62.1371 miles = 0.321 kWh/mile.
CO2 emissions per mile:
* 0.321 kWh/mile×75 gCO2/kWh=24.1 gCO2/mile.
Petrol Engine
CO2 emissions per mile:
* 150 gCO2/km×0.621371 miles/km=93.2 gCO2/mile.
Diesel Engine
CO2 emissions per mile:
* 120 gCO2/km×0.621371 miles/km=74.6 gCO2/mile.
Summary of CO2 Emissions per Mile
Vehicle Type CO2 Emissions (gCO2/mile)
Electric Vehicle (EV) 24.1
Petrol Engine 93.2
Diesel Engine 74.6
Conclusion
Charging an electric vehicle overnight on a greener grid results in approximately 24.1 gCO2 per mile, which is significantly lower than the emissions from petrol engines at 93.2 gCO2 per mile and diesel engines at 74.6 gCO2 per mile. This comparison highlights the environmental advantages of EVs, especially when charged during times of high renewable energy availability. If you have any further questions or need more details, feel free to ask!
i've provided mistral with sources and asked it to summarize them, then do averages on those summarisations. i've not just asked it to pull data from wherever (except the scrapping thing). i too think ai's are full of shit, but i can go back and check because i provided the data.
the assumptions made in your text give a gCO~2~/kWh figure of about half the IEA's, where's that from? also, the emissions numbers of your fossil fuels engines are way off. assuming a fuel consumption of 10l/100km, the number for a petrol car would be 230g CO~2~/km rather than 150. also you're mixing your units a lot.
What is the carbon footprint of a conventional car? | D-Carbonize
Discover the carbon footprint of a conventional car, the factors influencing CO2 emissions, and solutions to reduce them.Mélanie Costanza (D-Carbonize)
Yeah, like I say, AI is shit. Quoting it as an authoritative source is crazy, and AI is surprisingly bad at arithmetic.
The graphic is screwy. It doesn't pass plausibility test. Somehow the carbon cost of generating green electricity is far higher than the carbon cost of extracting oil and refining it. Someone's adding in a whole bunch of CO2 for manufacturing and installing some wind turbines but not for oil extraction machinery and oil refineries. Just the sheer quantity of steel alone isn't even comparable.
So no, you can chatgpt your argument as much as you like but you can't convince me that the cheapest greenest wind overnight electricity I power my EV with somehow took more CO2 by quite a margin than the oil extraction, oil tankers and oil refining that my neighbour's diesel car does. That's so backwards and obviously incorrect and I don't know why you persist with entertaining the idea.
I only objected to the graphic because it makes obviously screwy claims about power generation, somehow concluding that electricity is more polluting than double that of oil extraction, refinery and transportation, which is clearly false unless you're in America or somewhere else that aggressively refuses to invest in wind and solar, despite onland wind being the cheapest form of electricity. The rest of the thread is you pointlessly trying to defend the absurd conclusion of the misleading graphic that it doesn't matter whether you buy a polluting car or not. It does.
My advice for everyone: Next car, buy electric for the planet's sake and the sheer joy of driving that brings (turn off spongy acceleration gasoline emulation mode), and buy second hand for your wallet and the planet's sake.
Don't believe the FUD around EVs; stop repeating the lies that the petrochemical industry is pushing so hard.
A small point Re the EU average, you're including a bunch of countries that don't have as much wind power as the UK, and there's a world of difference between peak CO2 for peak electricity at teatime and early evening and CO2 for charging the car overnight when the electricity is cheapest exactly because it's greenest and there's so much wind power overnight (in the UK).
From your Forbes article:
Good news: amortizing the carbon cost over the decades-long lifespan of the equipment, Bernstein determined that wind power has a carbon footprint 99% less than coal-fired power plants, 98% less than natural gas, and a surprise 75% less than solar.
So I don't see how the carbon cost of generating that electricity can be so much higher than the carbon cost of petrol which is surely even higher than natural gas which doesn't require refineries, when it's actually about 2% as much over the lifetime of the equipment.
Like I said, graph is screwy. Someone in the fossil fuel industry doesn't want you to think that electric is greener. It's a lie. It's FUD. Stop parroting it.
your first paragraph makes no sense. yes the eu includes more countries than the uk. it's a connected market.
these stats are by polestar and rivian, as it says in the thing. if you have better sources, give them to me.
check my followup post.
it’s a connected market.
The UK isn't even in the EU, and different countries certainly have different energy mixes anyway.
if you have better sources, give them to me.
I literally quoted your own sources! I followed the links and I read them. Didn't you? I quoted them back to you. What a weird comment.
The UK isn’t even in the EU, and different countries certainly have different energy mixes anyway.
there's a huge mass of cables connecting the uk to the eu. energy you use is never "from" a single source, it's from wherever it's generated, which means it's from the eu grid. i don't even know why the uk is in this conversation?
I literally quoted your own sources! I followed the links and I read them. Didn’t you? I quoted them back to you. What a weird comment.
i did. i used the actual numbers presented by the sources though, rather than the predictions.
My old petrol car consumes 4.5L/100km. New Hybrid EVs consume 4.5L/100km because it takes a lot to move the heavy hybrid system.
Solution: I use public transport a lot unless I can't. That's my hybrid mode of transport.
like this
riot likes this.
Also they're blatantly not comparing like for like.
For example, the Toyota Yaris has a petrol-only version that get 4.6 to 5.8L/100km, whereas the (non-plugin) hybrid version of the exact same car gets 3.8L/100km, so all this guff about "it takes a lot to move the heavy hybrid system" is clearly FUD.
But I have to be together with people!
I'd rather drive my bike to work.
Next step would be attending city/town hall meetings, and slowly advocating for more and more public transit over time.
The dream of coast-to-coast public transit, the likes of which we saw before WWII, is still possible
In the US and for those that live outside of municipal boundaries and that live in unincorporated regions, lots of states have "townships" that are the default local government below county-level. Municipal corporations like towns and cities replace townships.
Still, those townships have local governments that can be engaged with politically.
And then there's counties in the US which act as the local government overseeing townships, etc.
People's political activism doesn't have to start and end in towns/cities.
Do the have a local government capable of building effective municipal transport?
They might be able to put a bus on that takes half a day to cover all the scatted houses, but nobody is going to use it.
A bus network is a good first step, yes.
And why all the pushback against political action? You're giving off doomer vibes.
No not doomed. I'm just tired of people thinking that public transport works in every situation.
People live in different places, and have different needs. I live where there's very good public transport and yet my commute would be 4x the time and 10x the cost if I had no option but to use it. People who live in rural areas will never have good public transport as the practicalities don't make sense.
So I still see a need for private transport. I just want it to be as clean as possible.
I mean from engineering perspective batteries in the board part do get damaged when you damage the board by hitting the floor, and they have increased chances to catch fire when your charge them. And when they do, they fucking destroy everything around. You can't really stop it either.
Key point: when you charge them. There is no reason to assume that would happen in tram or something.
Wrong! I could become the president and nuke the world. Boom, worse than industrial fishing.
Hahaha!
Oh, sorry. I meant
MUAHAHAHAHAHAH!
I'm all for public transit, but I will mention for the sake of honesty, Paul Weyrich, the creator of the Heritage Foundation had a bizarre fixation on trains from an early age.
Government funding for basically anything else related to common public good was forbidden, but for some reason trains were like his one "thing" he believed the government should fund.
Moving Minds: Conservatives and Public Transportation
So I'm all for public transit, but I would still demand public accountability. We deserve to know exactly who is profiting from any publicly funded projects.
Edit: He wrote a lot, and frequently found a way to sneak something about his public transportation fetish in just about everything he wrote (even somehow in a blog post shitting on New Orleans days after Katrina), but this is probably one of my favorite takes:
Bring Back the Streetcars! A Conservative Vision of Tomorrow’s Urban Transportation
What’s Right with This Picture?Everything. It is a fine summer day in New Westminster, British Columbia, in the year 1909.
Car 39 has stopped briefly on Park Row on its way into town. It carries its passengers
through a world that is ordered, serene, at peace. Their eyes feast upon the glories of Queen
Anne architecture. They hear the birds and the trolley wire sing a duet in an ether as yet
unpolluted by engine noise or boom boxes. Their poised servants, the motorman and
conductor of the car, stand as visible assurances of responsibility and reliability. God is in
His Heaven and all is right with the world.
🤣 This would be so hilarious if we weren't all watching the U.S. being torn apart as a direct result of his life's work.
Bring Back the Streetcars! A Conservative Vision of Tomorrow’s Urban Transportation : American Public Transportation Association : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Paul M. Weyrich and William S. Lind explore in this 2002 report how urban downtowns are reviving, and new towns are being built to traditional patterns. Not...Internet Archive
We deserve to know exactly who is profiting from any publicly funded projects.
i'm not familiar with that information being hidden
Public accountability for the plebs and not the oligarchs is standard operating procedure for these people.
Recent examples:
After promising transparency, RFK guts public records teams at HHS
Trump’s Declaration Allows Musk’s Efficiency Team to Skirt Open Records Laws
Interestingly enough, even though healthcare didn't make the cut for the current budget, it does appear there is still somehow money for transportation projects under this administration:
Lol what a crazy coincidence. Heritage was pumped to have this guy confirmed back in Jan.
U.S. Department of Transportation and Amtrak Unveil Timeline for NewYork Penn Station Transformation Project - Amtrak Media
Construction to begin by the end of 2027 NEW YORK – The U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) and Amtrak have revealed next steps for theJason Abrams (Amtrak Media)
My friend’s work is over an hour from his house by public transport—if public transport is working, and it’s a weekday. If it isn’t working well, if it’s late, if it’s a weekend or holiday, then it’s closer to two hours (or more).
It’s 15 minutes max by car.
And he lives in a place with good public transportation.
Until we improve how public transportation runs, so that it really is designed around how people need to get from A to B, cars are going to be the more popular choice.
Yes but that is never going to happen without putting restraints on the auto industry, which puts big money into preventing public transit from being built, and if its already exists, to destroy it.
Car culture is killing us. I get you're trying to be pragmatic but more is necessary.
I really hate that shit. To suburbs? Sure, that's acceptable cox public transportation prioritizes high density areas.
To city to another city and public transportation takes double of driving? That's bad design. Infrastructure that prioritizes cars no matter the population density is not sustainable, whether that's shown as car traffic or massive deficit to keep roads maintained
Bikes combined with public transit usually cut down those times massively. And to ask---good, or good by usa standards? Cities in Germany or japan are impressive with how fast you can get places by train.
Also-- people being unwilling to trade a bit of convenience in exchange for a better world is a major part of the problem. I got off my car and started biking for everything, and it was easy. More people could easily do the same. Combined with trains, I can go very far.
It does for me (southern uk) but to be fair doesn't often go beyond - 5 and.im driven by something more powerful than environmentalism - cheapness! 😀
Edit: I see you said constant below freezing, yeah fair point, that would tip the balance
Holy crap does it ever not.
Speaking from past lived experience trying to get to work in -30c weather in my old city, and the once-every-half-hour bus is either full, late, or broken down. FORGET that noise.
It's definitely better where I am now l, but vast swaths of cityscape in my country are massively underserved, and I would assert that calling it "daunting" is comically trivializing the daily stress of trying to make a schedule happen in those cases.
Just telling someone to buck up and endure that is extremely condescending; you'll win so few allies to your cause with this approach (which I, incidentally l, support). You're basically saying their time is of little to no value, and what they want to accomplish with it doesn't matter. And time is the only true non-renewable resource in your life, kids.
So, I say thee: nay.
Holy crap does it ever not.
Speaking from past lived experience trying to get to work in -30c weather in my old city, and the once-every-half-hour bus is either full, late, or broken down. FORGET that noise.
It's definitely better where I am now l, but vast swaths of cityscape in my country are massively underserved, and I would assert that calling it "daunting" is comically trivializing the daily stress of trying to make a schedule happen in those cases.
Just telling someone to buck up and endure that is extremely condescending; you'll win so few allies to your cause with this approach (which I, incidentally l, support). You're basically saying their time is of little to no value, and what they want to accomplish with it doesn't matter. And time is the only true non-renewable resource in your life, kids.
So, I say thee: nay.
I'm not speaking without doing. I've done as cold as it gets in my city, which is admittedly short of -30c, probably closer to -23c. This is about bikes, not buses. (But honestly goes for both!)
People aren't going to like being told it. But I'm ever of the opinion that people who whine when told they're wrong are not ever going to be the ones changing in the first place. They merely sit there, in the comfort of the car, justifying their decision by pretending the gas guzzling environment harming and dangerous vehicles are somehow justified by the small amount of lightly discomfortable weather and short bikeable rides.
You're basically saying their time is of little to no value, and what they want to accomplish with it doesn't matter
It's not of little value. It's the amount saved by driving is not worth it. For them and for others.
Bikes would be even worse imo. Your uphill battle just got much steeper. You're also not helping anything by making the sweeping generalizations you seem to enjoy making.
I can't say I have heard it before from countless others (to precisely no avail), but regardless, best of luck in gathering momentum for your cause.
Bikes are not even half as hard as you think they are.
best of luck in gathering momentum for your cause.
Thankfully, there's already significant momentum, bike lanes and transit are growing stronger.
Bikes are not even half as hard as you think they are.
I sold my bike last summer. I dislike riding bikes now; they hurt my back, and the cycling community is unfriendly (QED). I prefer my VESC board, it's more fun, and I can do a local grocery run without worrying that someone will steal it, and I've made more friends in the community.
I prefer my EV for longer distances, it's more practical.
For whatever reason, you seem unable to see someone else's perspectives on this subject. I'm going to chalk it up to inexperience.
Either way, it makes you a poor advocate for your cause.
and the cycling community is unfriendly
"i sold my hammer because the hammer community was unfriendly"
It's a tool first and a culture second. Choosing a tool based on culture is already poor decision making.
For whatever reason, you seem unable to see someone else's perspectives on this subject. I'm going to chalk it up to inexperience.
I can see their perspective. I think their perspective is simply pure selfishness, desire for a small convenience over the greater overall good.
A bike that hurts your back is likely not a practical commuter upright bike.
A glance at this thread would show you I'm right. People's primary reasons for not switching is not wanting to bike in the rain, winter, and not wanting to be sweaty --all of which products are made to deal with.
Even kids are easily transportable with a small trailer
Depends on population density. Even if there was passenger train service on the existing lines here, a lot of people would need a vehicle to get to the station, and I don't think public buses / vans could cover all the roads at a reasonable schedule.
But, also, you don't have to get very dense before public transport is better than individual vehicles for intracity trips.
We've been trying to get a LRT in a 400k population area for decades and can't make it happen. There's even an old unused rail line with right of way all the way from the biggest nearby municipality that causes all the traffic problems to downtown.
They still don't think it's enough people to warrant the upgrade/conversion costs.
They have been adding bus only lanes between downtown and that area though including in town and on the highway, but they've maybe only connected half the highway with bus only. That has been helping, and more frequent busses on it.
I think part of the concern is ridership outside work commutes, but I think it's more if you build it they will come kinda thing.
But something like this doesn't need to be profitable. It can be a service. Need to get away from the thought that it all has to be profitable.
Even if there was passenger train service on the existing lines here, a lot of people would need a vehicle to get to the station
BIKE. BIKE TO THE TRAIN STATION
It also solves the problem at the other end where I'm 4 miles from my office.
Trains don't make it easy to get bikes on but that's easily resolved also
While a lot of people can, some live far away, or have small kids, or the weather doesn't allow it, or...
There is no one single solution, every bit helps, and often they help each other.
I think distance is a pretty good reason not to. Just not wanting to is a fair excuse too, honestly. A car is convenient.
That said, at the point where the weather prohibits going by bicycle, in my experience at least, you generally just don't go anywhere because it'd be perilous in a car as well. I recall when I visited Kiruna some years ago, other than the cars, most people I saw were getting around on kicksleds and bicycles. Even saw a couple of dog sleds.
As for kids, what I've generally seen here are three options; chariots (can usually hold up to two kids), parcel shelf seats (one child), or the kid bikes themselves. I was taught to ride a bicycle at three, and at seven I biked to and from school on my own.
Granted, in the U.S. I can see this not happening on account of everything being so bloody spread out that you need a car, and even if you did put up with the distance, the infrastructure isn't there; you can't go on the motorway with a bicycle. Urban planning over in the states is abysmal.
Small kids doesn't stop you from biking lmfao. It just changes what setup of bike you need to have.
the weather doesn't allow it, or...
The only weather that would prevent it is a hurricane and you shouldn't be driving in one of those either.
No, it's spoken like someone who's been to the numerous countries where they bike with their kids just fine.
worked a job with a dress code
A 5-7 mile commute is doable without being sweaty with the right bike.
Cars are a problem. They pollute(yes, even electric ones), are costly to run, greatly increase the danger of neighborhoods, cause a reduction in smaller businesses. They make it more expensive for people who don't have money to get around, make it harder for children to get safely from place to place. They generate sizeable areas of development damage to growing people along major highways and roads(again, even electric causes this).
It's not a solved problem, cars are a problem.
No wonder, americans still use 6 liters engines on 4 ton trucks to get groceries.
A small electric compact car with a small battery (soon to be sodium) solves all of the problems while performing the same functions.
Huh? They have 60 mile ranges, that's less than a bike.
But no, for long distance biking you take it in conjunction with trains. Can't take a smart car on a train
It's impressive how little you understand about how much energy biking takes
Anyone allowing themselves a 60 mile commute to work is crazy for multiple reasons. But again, trains
I prefer to arrive at work/school/shops not sopping wet, and it sometimes rains.
I, personally, could bike or walk because the station would be particularly close to my residence. But, there are others in the county where to get to the closest station they'd be biking much further than they are currently healthy enough to accomplish.
Bikes are not a good option at this density either.
I prefer to arrive at work/school/shops not sopping wet, and it sometimes rains
If only science could devise some sort of way to keep you dry in the rain. One day, perhaps
I prefer to arrive at work/school/shops not sopping wet, and it sometimes rains.
Raincoats! I have a nice yellow raincoat that folds up and inverts into its own pocket, turning into a little square you can tuck away in a bag or something. It's super convenient.
Okay but what if I’m sopping wet with sweat from the heat and I also smell bad now.
Unless the general stink of the any large concentration of humans will overpower it.
I agree, by the time you really deserve the term "city" you should provide public transit as a community good and it can be made so that most people want to use it.
I'm in the "city" of Cove, Arkansas. It's a 15 minute drive to the nearest produce section, and I have to work remotely because there aren't computer programmer jobs within a reasonable commute.
At low densities, EVs are the way to go. The more dense, the more public transit makes sense.
I do still wish passenger rail service was restored along the line through here to the county seat; there are days it would save me a drive.
I could see some very well-meaning folks in local government being boxed in by citizens on one side that make their luxury SUVs and even more luxurious pickup trucks into major parts of their identities, and then the various layers of government above them driving the standards that make all of our towns samey-looking stroads. I'm in the US if that wasn't obvious, and the car-centrism runs deep.
I'm a middle aged dude and my house was build multiple decades before I was born. Back then my neighborhood was designed 100% for cars. They even put in drainage ditches that precluded the addition of sidewalks. But several years back the township did paint a walking path down one side of my street.
The new neighborhoods built in the last decade are mostly the same as far as being car-only. They usually have sidewalks and you will see people taking walks or children playing. But it's only local recreation, to walk the dog or to visit a neighbor. If you need to go to the grocery store, it's time to hop into the 2-3 ton family vehicle.
I will give my local government and developers credit though, that some recent projects have been to create what look like islands of walkable community. I have look through the businesses and see if they have groceries and the like. From what I've seen the neighborhood seems to be densely packed expensive apartments and townhomes that were rapidly built en masse, and then in the center there's a grassy field and some breweries and restaurants and stuff. So possibly some very American designs going on there.
From what I've seen the neighborhood seems to be densely packed expensive apartments and townhomes that were rapidly built en masse, and then in the center there's a grassy field and some breweries and restaurants and stuff. So possibly some very American designs going on there.
I used to live in one of these kind of complexes. It was even next to a river with a nice little 2 mile trail along it. At first I thought it would be cool to live within a short walk of things. There was a convenience store that was quite nice. However, the owner told me that the complex told them they couldn't sell nicotine products "to keep homeless out". That shouldve been a red flag. Then the convenience store closed in favor of a fancy coffee shop. Then a fancy German restaurant with outdoor seating. Suddenly I felt like I lived in an outdoor mall. The site for that apartment complex was previously used for the states death row so I guess it's still an improvement from that.
eww, yeah I can see that happening and a lot of people liking it too.
Even though our suburban neighborhoods are designed to be pro-car and anti-community, the one nice thing about the single family home and little fenced in yard setup is that I can keep some natural beauty close by.
Edison Trucks out of Canada is betting on diesel-electric hybrids. They're starting with logging trucks but if they succeed (or if someone copies their ideas) I expect they'd expand into long haul.
It still burns fuel for the generator, but with regen braking, charge-depleting during acceleration, an engine tuned for a narrow power band, start-stop for clean idle, and the ability to charge from the grid overnight before short hauls, it can't possibly pollute more than straight diesel.
Like for example, my gasoline car can do about 30 MPG highway and worse in the city. Pure ICE drivetrains suck balls in the city. A 10-year-old Prius on its original battery can do 50 highway and 50 city. I expect hybrids can squeeze some efficiency out of diesel the same way.
eCascadia | Freightliner Trucks
Experience the future of sustainable transportation with the Freightliner eCascadia – the electric semi truck revolutionizing the industry.www.freightliner.com
To add to what others are saying, you should consider the framing of your question. Progress isn't all-or-nothing. There will still be situations where a truck, van, or car is the best tool for the job, and electrifying them will take time, or require advances in technology. We would still benefit from expanding public transportation and decreasing the need to use a personal vehicle for everyday tasks.
Eventually, though, yes, it would be good to replace diesel trucks with trains where possible, and electrify the ones we can't, when we can.
Serious question: What about Alcohol cars?
I get it that there would be a need to develop better motors to run on alcohol alone and that alcohol's output is lower than gasoline but at least the first part is solvable in the same way that diesel motors got better over time (spending money on R&D).
I ask this because, here in Brazil, Lula tried to implement pure alcohol cars back in his first or second term but faced some backlash both because we didn't had the necessary tech to make good alcohol motors and from a lot of other reasons (one which is probably to be petrol companies fucking the project to keep their gains, which although sounds conspirational, may also be true since it is patently obvious that petrol companies lobbyed against climate change measures).
Also, as long as we don't fuck up the soil by mismanagement, it will be almost carbon neutral in emission since all CO2 output was used to grow plants, which is different from using petrol that needs millions of years to be put back under a rock deep down the soil.
I'd even risk to say that it could even be a net-positive(?) carbon capture since the fiber from sugar cane (for brasil's case) is captured carbon that could be used to fertilize the soil back again.
But I don't think we will see a resurgence of alcohol based cars because, as it seems, it failed here on Brazil and oil companies' greed definitivelly aren't the only reason for that (though I believe it played a smal to medium role)
We recently moved to a very bike friendly city in California, and it's a night and day difference to where we had moved from in Texas. There are bike lanes, and bike racks EVERYWHERE.
There is also a heavily used e-bike/e-scooter service available as well. Its been a genuine game changer.
Separate lanes and bike racks all over the place means that the e-scooters aren't ditched all over the sidewalk AND the separate bike lanes do not disrupt traffic so the drivers don't hate them either. We've only used our vehicle for commuting to work since moving here. For everything else, we walk, bike, or scooter. Bought a little collapsible wagon for grocery shopping too!
AND the separate bike lanes do not disrupt traffic so the drivers don’t hate them either.
Oh, they usually still hate them. In there minds, that's a lane of traffic that got taken away. For those people, I usually like to point out an unused sidewalk and complain that those damned pedestrians are also taking away perfectly good driving space.
First, that would be lousy public transit design and the route should be rethought.
Second --- does this hyppthetical bus run other routes? Is it electric, powered by overhead lines?
Of course you can up with niche counterexamples for an argument presented in meme format, but that doesn't mean it's not, broadly speaking, correct.
You have the best username + job combo I've seen all day!
And honestly it works whether it's accurate or not, lol.
Sounds like the build out of the transit hubs was bungled.
I've seen this happen once or twice in Houston. Tiny lines that go nowhere and are spun up just so municipal government leaders can say "This doesn't work! Build more highways instead!" Our new "Silver Line" is a great example. It was supposed to be a spoke within a larger spoke/wheel build out, but the state sabotaged roll out of the rest of the network.
Meanwhile, we've got a commuter rail line down Main Street (built back in 2012 for the Olympic bid) that's the third most utilized in the country, just because it gets you into downtown without fighting traffic choke points.
The difference in usage is Night and Day.
It already does. Where I live, you can just rent an electric scooter by the minute/kilometer. Just grab one from the street, scan it in the app and go. Plenty of people who never bothered to get drivers licenses or just haven't bought cars, have electric scooters.
Electric bicycles seem a bit more efficient and comfortable, but scooters are soooo portable. Easier to fit on trains, buses, hallways... And even in your car. Have a car and an electric scooter? Drive to another city, park the car in a lower density area, take your scooter out and go. No longer dependent on intercity transit times, and yet you save a bunch of fuel (because city consumption > highway consumption) and nerves (because fuck city traffic) and don't have to work about expensive and crowded city center parking...
Anyway, new electric scooters start at like 300 EUR for Chinese ones that probably spy on you somehow. Ones with more range and power cost a bit more.
Working from home is the best.
Very difficult to build class solidarity when you're atomized to the point of not even seeing one another's real faces.
You don’t have to do that at work.
😕
The place you spend half your waking hours?
You can do that at the library, bar, farmer’s market, etc.
Do you have a job?
Do you have a job?
I don't currently. Are you hiring computer programmers? I've got 20+ applications sent out via Indeed, but I haven't found one yet.
Even when I was employed, I still visited the library, a few bars, and the saturday farmer's market. While I don't think visiting the bar is necessarily a must, you really should participate in your local library and farmer's market. Connecting to your community is important.
I get why you're digging at them, but there was a period in my life I went to the bar after every workday. Now I have a child. But back then, that's just how I met new people and socialized. Now I... just don't really meet new people. Maybe I'll start meeting other parents soon when it's kindergarten time, but that's about it.
I think this depends most on what kind of city you live in. I had an 8 minute walk from office to bar, and a 4 minute walk from bar to home. And the bar was on the way anyway.
A lot of cities were designed around cars. In Cities Skyline you can just bulldoze entire neighbourhoods and completely change the roads and transit. Unfortunately in real life you can't easily bulldoze people's homes, and transit networks can take a decade to build.
Global warming is a problem now, and perfect is the enemy of good enough. We know EVs aren't the ideal solution, but it's important part of a solution that involves improved transit, better quality of life in dense population centers AND EVs for neighbourhoods that were built in a car-centric past. Maybe in 100 years the suburbs won't exist and there won't be any need for cars, but if we wait 100 years to have perfectly designed transit friendly neighbourhoods we'll all be fucked.
And if they're hadn't thrashed the railcars, the cities might look wildly different.
I mean, Europe hasn't torn it's cities down (well not all of them and not for rebuilding purposes anyway) despite managing to utilise good public transport.
Then again guess your point is rather that American cities were built stupidly car centric and that somehow those can't be replaced with any sort of public transport?
I agree, but, this country, unfortunately, is built around cars now, and I certainly can’t walk to work as it would take hours, same with biking.
We need more public transportation, but we also need electric cars.
In a car I am in constant conflict, constant in risk.
In a plane I am but a commodity, worth only my payment.
In a bus we are a union, to endure together, and one another.
In a train we are a tribe, fortified in goals, interests, as philosophers of old.
Okay I mayyyy be glossing over the occasional pee stains, bad scheduling, overly expensive tickets, and occasional fella high out of his gourd taking the occasional break from his hazed trance to scream at me because I'm secretly the devil.
Just the colors of life I say.
That's great if public transport goes from near where you are to near where you want to be, in a reasonable time.
For me that's not the case. Anywhere I want to go takes 27 changes over at least 5 hours for a net distance of three miles; it'd be quicker to hop backwards blindfold on a bent pogo stick.
While there's something to that, it's also a difficult fact that rail is just harder than roads, and by extension more expensive. You have hills? You are going to need to do tunnels and bridges for the rail because you can't turn that sharply and you mustn't have more than 1.5% grade. For road, just snake it around and up and down the hills.
You have a source and destination that not many people will be using? It's cost prohibitive to run a whole train or bus to cover that route.
Now it's one thing when the population distribution was based around settling around the harsh realities of needing to be along viable transit paths, but when a great deal of the population settled with the assumption of roads, you are going to have a hard time sorting out transit routes without mass resettlement.
Of course, if you apply mass transit to cities and nearby areas you've gotten the worst of the troubles solved and it's viable for mass transit. But cars are just part of the equation for longer hauls.
people who argue for public transport argue for better implementation of it (and also city planning that supports it). the idea isn't for everyone to just stop using cars in favor of public transport even if the public transport system is absolute shit. it's for systemic support of public transport in such a way that commuters would willingly choose it over being stuck in traffic in their little metal boxes for hours.
it's a criticism of the system, not the people.
While I agree that we need a national public works project worth of new modern trains.
Anyone who says stuff like this should be forced to drive 10 hours across the US first.
Anywhere to anywhere. Drive for 10 hours. Then plot your completed course on a map of the lower 48. Just to demonstrate how monstrously fucking huge this country is. So they understand that while trains are amazing. They aren't the panacea some seem to think.
So in part, yes because of that's what we spent the money on and also yes, because we can do things with roads that we can't do with rail.
With rail, you generally don't want over 0.5% grade, maybe 1.5% grade. With roads 5% grade is considered no big deal, 8% for freeway ramps, and mountain roads commonly being 15-20%. Also turns can be much tighter with roads.
It's much much cheaper to do roads, particularly through hilly or mountainous terrain.
It takes about 10 hours to drive 688 miles from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City, an actual distance of 580 miles.
For more than double that distance, at 1238 miles, a high-speed train from Hong Kong to Beijing takes 9 hours.
"The US is way too big for trains and public transit to be feasible" is a lousy excuse for poor infrastructure and planning.
It's not about getting rid of cars entirely. It's about prioritizing other modes of transport that are more efficient at moving people for 90% of daily trips they need to make.
Cars will still exist, they will just not be most people's first choice for going to/from places. Ideally they exist more as a tool for specific situations where needed, such as work that covers a broad/rural area and requires large/specialized tools.
no one is saying "get rid of cars". if you live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere where it'd be inefficient to build transit infrastructure due to the low population it would serve, then no one is trying to take away your car.
it's all about decreasing society's dependence on cars where it makes sense (higher population areas like towns and cities, as well as long-distance options between those areas) in favour of way more efficient modes of transport.
Anyone who says stuff like this should be forced to drive 10 hours across the US first.
I am gonna be honest, this is such a lame, US exceptionalism line that people in the US repeat ad nauseam as if it adds anything to the conversation.
Nobody is saying for the couple of people living in North Dakota that they can't keep their truck and drive around everywhere, the transportation needs of people that live in rural places like this are vanishingly small compared to the problem we are talking about here. We are talking about MASS TRANSIT so places that actually have enough people for major industry, and for major movements of people and material that can actually clog transportation networks. Why when people try to have a conversation about the economic centers of the US that actually make this country run do people obsess about the guy living in the middle of nowhere Kansas who can go on happily driving a pickup for the rest of eternity and who has no impact on the places that actually matter in the US in terms of transit?
Nobody lives in most of the US, so no the fact that those parts of the US exist does not make the US uniquely difficult to make mass transit for because "it is too big", you just make the mass transit where the high population density is. Deep red rural government-handout states can continue to be based entirely around cars, great, it really doesn't affect much of the US population because most of the US population doesn't live in those places and don't desire to go to them.
Great now that we have been over this, please never throw this line out lazily again, it adds nothing.
Nobody lives in most of the US,
Wow. Talk about overused lines of delusional bullshit.
Twinsies I guess?
Please never say this absurd nonsense again. For your own benefit.
That is true, which makes it so weird to get so much backlash from advocating for good transit in the first place.
Also driving by bike is often times overlooked. In my home town of 10k the supermarket has a us sized parking lot and is located right in the center...
Its cheaper for you and others, healthier for you, others and the earth and its safer for others.
Electric cars are a type of vehicle.
Public transit is a type of transportation system that include many different types of vehicles and can include electric cars.
You're comparing apples to orchards.
They aren't doing that, you are. The apples to apples comparison that they are making is our current transit system; with the cars being fully electrified but otherwise as it exists today; versus a transit system that prioritizes mass transit (and walking and biking) over personal vehicles.
Electric cars are a solution to save the auto industry, not the climate.
It's amazing how much it takes for some to reach the conclusion that systemic change is both necessary and requires... systemic change. As in systems changing. As in greater change than your individual decision to ride an EV or ICEV or public transit. Change that would make it exponentially more intuitive for you to choose the most sustainable one of those options.
Especially if mass transit is not feasible for you, this post is not to shame you or call on you to try and do it anyways. It's a recognition that riding mass transit is not feasible or intuitive for most people, and a call to make mass transit available to more people rather than investing all that time and energy into the wild goose chase of EV adoption.
The crying indian really did a number on us.
Oh boy more of the same. Can I still have a side of billion dollar rail lines desired by those who don't own property and a complaint about houses being to expenaive and wages too small?
Come up with some new shit. Like how many Republicans and democrats you got to have sex. And why doesnt language translate for man's oldest friend.....a dog.
I have Reduced my car/bike usage. I'm still a hobby driver/motorcyclist but I do it less nowadays.
All my vehicles are bought second hand and will be Reused until I can't fix them anymore. They're both mid 00's Hondas (car and bike) so that's likely going to be until I run out of parts on the market.
Then they will be Recycled for scrap metal. At that point I'll think about Reusing some other second hand car. If electric makes sense it'll be that.
I'm with you entirely except for comfort. I think the only comfort advantage is that trains can have comparable leg room and you can standup.
I have never been on any type of mass transit where the seats were as comfortable as even a crappy car.
That's ignoring system dependent stuff like cleanliness or the discomforts of being close to strangers.
You can certainly clean more, put in better seats, and suck it up when it comes to strangers, but as it is right now, I struggle to see how you could say it's more comfortable based purely on the amenities.
I struggle to see how you could say it’s more comfortable
easy, i don't have to focus on the street for 50 minutes. that's a big win for me.
Ah, I wouldn't have called that comfort, more boredom. I still don't agree on the comfort thing, but at least I can see where you're coming from.
I'm tall and overweight. Even when I wasn't overweight the seats have never been wide enough and I almost always have my knees pressed into the back of the seat in front of me. With the seat being too short as well, I usually end up with a fair bit of pain unless I can stand or get a seat without someone close in front of me.
It's not really boredom, you have that time left to sleep, draw, read, or enjoy the scenery. All the more worth it for public transit.
It also takes cars off the road, meaning fewer and shorter traffic jams. Win in my book.
The seating is more of an issue with cars, I've felt. It's always cramped and big cars are uncomfortable and unsafe. Hassle to park as well, and they end up costing you way more than it's worth.
Yeah, for me the real status symbol is a bicycle and healthy legs. Or a good public transit card.
I mean, I used to be exclusively a bus rider or pedestrian, so I'm not unfamiliar with them. Sleeping is a bad choice because you can miss your stop, and at least in my experience the scenery is no different than you would get from the windshield.
Did like reading though, since that was relaxing. If I'm being fair though, taking a car for the trip I used to bus is fast enough that I wouldn't find a book worth it.
Does the seat softness not bother you? For me, seat softness and leg room are the two biggest drives for feeling uncomfortable and even the smallest car has more.
To be clear, I'm not saying public transit is bad. Far from it. If it were remotely viable for any of the trips I need to take it would be my go to. I just think that they could put more padding on the seats, make them a little larger, and give a touch more leg room.
You don't miss your stop with an alarm.
The scenery is certainly different. You don't always see roads, you look at the side.
The seats are pretty comfy in train and bus, enough leg space too. I do agree with you that more padding and extra leg space would be always welcome, though.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the seats. It's just not comfortable from my view. A cheap office chair would be an upgrade. We almost certainly live in different areas with different buses, so it's not really something we can compare specifically.
Completely different scenery is pushing it a bit. I can pretty much see whatever I could see out of the bus window through the windshield, and for the most part it's not what you would call "scenic". I don't live in the country nor do I live in a big enough city for interesting architecture, so it's just a long suburban and urban sprawl of slightly run down houses and low grade commercial along the bus routes. We're not talking some run down dystopia, but there just isn't much interesting to see, at least more than once.
I don't think an alarm would help me not miss my stop. The buses here are reliable, but not regular enough to set an alarm for arrival times. I was always worried they'd show up early and I'd miss it, and that sucked when the weather was bad.
... Have you ever used public transportation in any major city? It is about the only instance in modern age where you are in a vehicle that may be going 50 kph and you are standing. If you are going to be making claims, I would drop that "10x as comfortable" bit.
Comfortable is probably the biggest reason most people don't use public transportation. With their own cars, they don't need to wait, they don't need to worry about whether they are going to be packed like sardines because of the work rush, or forced to even wait for another pass because it got full before they were able to get on, or have to worry about getting cramps from not being able to sit, or having the transit take significantly more because it's not direct, or pickpockets..
About the only comfortable thing about public transport is if you can get on it during off-peak hours when seats are available, in a route that doesn't require a lot transfers, that isn't much longer due to the stops and side-routing, and that doesn't have a high wait time. All the stars have to align.
In comparison, bikes are probably the better option overall, and it would be epic if public transport started incorporating e-bike/scooter transit along with it. Unfortunately it seems to be quite the opposite where I live due to concerns about Lithium battery fires, but hopefully someone somewhere realizes that that is just a standardization issue.
public transport is just 10x as comfortable as any car could be
Yes, nothing beats walking to a bus stop and waiting there in the cold, rain or burning sun, hoping the bus shows up in time or at all. Then stressing, because it being 15 minutes late probably means your connecting train will be gone. Oh yes, there it goes. Half an hour wait with no place to sit. And then repeat this two more times for more connecting trains and buses.
And I haven't even talked about not being able to sit during train rides, or having to sit on back wrecking seats. Unfortunately I have back issues and after having enjoyed the 'comfort' of our public transport I often end up just not being able to stand or sit anymore at the end of the day because my back hurts so bad.
That is my average commute, and as a bonus there ultimately isn't a difference in price here between taking the car or public transport. To top it off my average travel time is 60 minutes by car, 1.5 - 2 hours by public transport, often depending whether or not the first bus shows up in time.
It would be able to overlook a lot of this if it was feasible to do some work in the train, but with all the fragmentation on my route I never really get anything done.
I really would like to use public transport, as it is more sustainable than my gas guzzler, but each time I try it the experience just sucks so bad.
Agree, it's so much nicer.
No stress about searching parking spots, no cursing people driving too fast or slow... and reliable, fast, affordable and comfortable.
Political will is not even the problem; corruption, ie. corporatism and oligarchs are. They stand in the way of a truly public transit friendly society. None of the oligarchs are part of 'us'.
And even if we consider cars,good driving experiences necessitate public transit, bicycle lanes, and walkability!
Turkish Airlines Orders Up To 75 Boeing 787s, Maybe 150 737 MAXs
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Air France-KLM confirms bid interest in TAP privatisation
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Two Planes Have Dangerously Close Call At GSO: What Was ATC Thinking?!
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Boeing Reaches Settlement In Wrongful Death Whistleblower Case
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What's the highest # of tabs you've opened while troubleshooting something? (linux or not linux related)
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Trump’s NSPM-7 Labels Common Beliefs As Terrorism “Indicators”
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The man enlisted to save James Comey
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Near North Wildwood, Grassy Sound residents fear their homes will soon float away [New Jersey]
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Brazilian jobs tied to China exports rise 62%
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Blaiz0r
in reply to Five • • •coffeetastesbadlikecoffee
in reply to Five • • •Wow, so many words but no real explination for the extreme stance this author takes against the e-ID other than "Class oppression" or whatever...
And then you need to accept 1000 cookies before you can read.
sleen
in reply to coffeetastesbadlikecoffee • • •In my case I just had to click 2 buttons to disagree. Still annoying but not as infuriating as those checkboxes which you have to uncheck.
ScoffingLizard
in reply to sleen • • •quick_snail
in reply to sleen • • •LordOfLocksley
in reply to Five • • •It sure would suck if the government had information on your driving license and passport already, so that they could identify you, or that you carry around a mini GPS beacon in your pocket, allowing you to be tracked as long as there is signal....
What a nightmare that would be
boogiebored
in reply to LordOfLocksley • • •hansolo
in reply to Five • • •I've had to research digital ID backend architecture in depth, and I'll be honest, the digital ID itself isn't the problem. If anything it's more sane and efficient, and certainly doesn't add any more data than you've already given the government. What ELSE do expect there to be?
The issue with digital IDs is how they're used by vendors and websites, and what data from interactions is recorded. If a digital ID system used a third-party audited Zero Knowledge Proof system, it would actually be better than the unholy mess we have now with every service scrounging for your data and face.
But, the day a government does a tech thing right on the first try is the same day I sprout wings from my ass and fly away.
Matt
in reply to Five • • •utopiah
in reply to Matt • • •Oh that's a sexy form factor! It does fold and hold the card in place right?
I do have a card reader already but its cable isn't in top shape. Any reference?
Matt
in reply to utopiah • • •utopiah
in reply to Matt • • •quick_snail
in reply to utopiah • • •utopiah
in reply to quick_snail • • •quick_snail
in reply to utopiah • • •SpaceScotsman
in reply to Matt • • •Reisen
in reply to Five • • •i don't know if the current solution of sending a photo of a physical ID together with a selfie to facebook is any better in terms of control or privacy. while at the same time i believe more places will ask to ID you when a digital ID happens in a given country
and i don't think it's an "if" either. we do have reasons to ID people irl too and the more life happens online the more those reasons also appear online. the only thing to me that is realistic is to work to have those solutions implemented the right way with as little possibilities for surveillance as possible. otherwise we just keep sending selfies and pictures of IDs around forever
Schlemmy
in reply to Five • • •