The highlighted division and factions of Lemmy.
Just a little thought I wanna discuss.
Unlike the more massive social media or the real world where theres not many leftists and we are gladly more united Lemmy and its left leaning tendencies with the instances providing natural cult grouping tendencies. Add to that the matrix in groups there and we all seem to be making a thing out of how to anger each other. How to troll each other or annoy x or y instance.
I hate this.
Living in an extreme right wing nation I know no other anarchist. A few left wingers. Even the libs here are right wing extremists by the standards of a western nation. I hold dear any solidarity.
I support unions here even when everyone there is a religious fundamentalist who wants sharia law bc they still qantnto improve the conditions of the working class.
Many folks here, who again I don't have any hate for, I see intending these fights and dramas. Having the goal to be banned from x or y community or instance.
- Why!?!?
- What do you gain?
- What is the desire here??
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Israel commits ceasefire violation and kills 5. Media blames the people who got killed by Israel.
Israel-Gaza live updates: 5 Palestinians killed in Gaza City, IDF says
Israel on Tuesday identified two of the people whose remains were returned.Kevin Shalvey (ABC News)
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geneva_convenience doesn't like this.
So much for Trump's victory lap. What was that, like 3 days?
They just can't not kill people, huh?
My new pocket camera, when I want to keep it out of my pockets
copymyjalopy likes this.
Hybrid threats force Poland to tighten medicine supply controls as the country aims to wean itself off Asia for essential drugs
cross-posted from: lemmy.sdf.org/post/44047903
Archived[...]
Efforts to diversify domestic manufacturing and supply are ongoing, focusing on supporting Polish pharmaceutical companies and building facilities closer to European markets. However, production decisions regarding active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) or finished products remain commercial, independently made by responsible entities based on business strategies.
A key ministry goal is to reduce Poland’s reliance on external markets, especially on Asian suppliers responsible for most raw materials and APIs. “Uncoupling from Asia is crucial to enhancing Poland’s supply chain stability,” the ministry noted, highlighting its cooperation with the Government Strategic Reserves Agency (RARS), which plays a vital role in crisis management. RARS maintains expert capacity and logistics, proven during COVID-19 vaccine deployment and aid to Ukraine.
Another key area in Poland’s pharmaceutical security strategy is the National List of Critical Medicines. First presented in December 2024, this list has since been updated to include 401 substances deemed crucial for patient safety and the resilience of the healthcare system.
[...]
“True security lies in producing medicines in the EU and Poland,” [president of Medicines for Poland Krzysztof] Kopeć stressed. While acknowledging the ministry’s National List of Critical Medicines, he emphasised that lists alone don’t guarantee security. Reducing dependence on Asia requires cost acceptance by the EU and national governments. European producers need profitable prices to manufacture medicines sustainably.
[...]
[Michał Byliniak, director general of INFARMA, the Employers' Union of Innovative Pharmaceutical Companies] emphasised the need to ensure patients’ needs are met during armed conflict, with timely access to medicine, even before emergency procedures are activated. “We faced such challenges after the Ukraine war began, guaranteeing treatment continuity for patients who suddenly lost access,” he recalled.
[...]
https://www.euractiv.com/news/hybrid-threats-force-poland-to-tighten-medicine-supply-controls
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China detains dozens of members of underground church as government pressure on Christianity increases
cross-posted from: lemmy.sdf.org/post/44046616
ArchivedThe authorities in China have detained the pastor of one of the country’s most prominent underground churches, along with dozens of other people affiliated with his church, according to the pastor’s family and members of the church, prompting worries about a renewed crackdown on religion.
The pastor, Jin Mingri, who also goes by the name Ezra, founded Beijing Zion Church in 2007. It grew into one of the country’s largest unofficial congregations, with several satellite campuses and over 1,000 people attending its weekend services.
Mr. Jin, 56, was detained on Friday at his home in the city of Beihai in Guangxi Province, according to his daughter, Grace Jin, who lives in the United States. Around the same time, nearly 30 other Zion Church pastors or workers were taken into custody or went missing around the country, including in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and other cities, she said.
[...]
In recent months, [...] surveillance on Mr. Jin seemed to have ramped up, Ms. Jin [who is Mr. Jin daughter who lives in the US] said. In September, the government issued new regulations limiting religious activity online to officially registered channels.
Mr. Jin had also suggested to the state security officers monitoring him that he might retire from Zion so that he could join his family, Ms. Jin said. But she said the officers refused to let him leave.
“After this kind of posturing, it seemed like something big was going to happen again,” Ms. Jin said. “We just didn’t know when or to what extent. But I also feel like my dad is always the optimist.”
She added, “He is sort of like, ‘Well I can’t live in fear every day, so I’m just going to continue on with what I need to do.’”[...]
Corey Jackson, the founder of Luke Alliance, a U.S.-based group that advocates for persecuted Christians in China, said that the detentions were “without a doubt” the biggest crackdown on Christianity in China since 2018.
[...]
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Small protestant church which gained popularity during the covid lockdowns? Sounds like a cult to me, whats next? Reuters reporting the membership have the bestest organs and the ceeceepee is taking their kidneys? (Ala Falon Gong, who coincidentally have a bunch of racist, anti gay, and anti communist teachings. Who's rag the epoch times openly supports Trump and US imperialism)
There are 10s of millions of muslims, christians etc in the PRC, one private underground church group bring restricted is not the CPC cracking down on religion as msm would have you believe
Be skeptical, reuters founding is tied back to Thomas Reuters, who in the 1850s had a monopoly over mines, tobacco and railroads in Iran, their hearts are not in the right place
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There are 10s of millions of muslims, christians etc in the PRC, one private underground church group bring restricted is not the CPC cracking down on religion as msm would have you believeBe skeptical, reuters founding is tied back to Thomas Reuters, who in the 1850s had a monopoly over mines, tobacco and railroads in Iran, their hearts are not in the right place
Yes, there are indeed, among others, muslims like Uyghurs in Xinjiang. China's genocide there is well known.
You should always being skeptical when consuming media, but thank you for the reminder.The founder's activities in 1850 have, of course, nothing to do with the current agency stance, though. And a certain "Thomas Reuters" has nothing to do with it. The agency's founder was Paul Reuter. The company has been called Thomson Reuters after Canadian media company Thomson acquired Reuters.
Do yourself a favor and stay away from wherever you receive your information. Your statement is out of touch by any means.
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Madagascar president hiding in 'safe place' as he warns of coup attempt
Andry Rajoelina: Madagascar president hiding in 'safe place' as he warns of coup attempt
Andry Rajoelina is said to have fled the country by French military jet but his whereabouts are unknown.Natasha Booty (BBC News)
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The civil war breaking out in Gaza with executions in the street
The ‘civil war’ breaking out in Gaza with executions in the street
Hamas and rival militias clash amid public murders of supposed collaborators in growing signs of a form of civil warMolly Blackall (The i Paper)
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Israelis and Palestinians celebrate as truce brings hope of ‘era of peace’
Israelis and Palestinians celebrate as truce brings hope of ‘era of peace’
UN warns Gaza still needs ‘lifesaving aid’ as world leaders gather in Sharm el-Sheikh to discuss 20-point proposalJulian Borger (The Guardian)
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Venezuela closes embassy in Oslo after opposition leader awarded Nobel peace prize
Venezuela closes embassy in Oslo after opposition leader awarded Nobel peace prize
María Corina Machado has made downfall of Maduro regime in Venezuela her missionGuardian staff reporter (The Guardian)
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‘Your basis to live is checked at each and every step’: India’s ID system divides opinion
‘Your basis to live is checked at each and every step’: India’s ID system divides opinion
Keir Starmer is considering Aadhaar as model for UK, but detractors warn of ‘digital coercion’ and security breachesHannah Ellis-Petersen (The Guardian)
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Israel kills seven Palestinians in violation of Gaza ceasefire
Israeli forces killed at least seven Palestinians in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, in violation of the ceasefire agreement signed last week.
The Israeli military confirmed carrying out the attacks in Shujaiya, claiming it targeted individuals who had crossed agreed-upon army deployment lines after issuing warning shots. It did not comment on the drone strike in Khan Younis.
These attacks constitute a breach of the ceasefire agreement that took effect on Friday, which explicitly stated that “all military operations, including aerial and artillery bombardment and targeting operations, will be suspended”.
Israel kills seven Palestinians in violation of Gaza ceasefire
Israeli forces killed at least seven Palestinians in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, in violation of the ceasefire agreement signed last week. According to local health officials, six people were killed in Gaza City and one in Khan Younis.Mera Aladam (Middle East Eye)
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You would think the world would expect this starting with the violations of agreements dating back to 1948 where the rapists, murderers, and thieves violated a ceasefire agreement in Der Yassin, massacring and raping civilians who willingly disarmed themselves for peace. (Currently, if you look at the Wikipedia page, you'll notice a lot of Zionists pushing Zionist sources that deny the nature of the massacre. Lots of these edits starting in 2023)
There's also the infamous 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre. PLO withdrew and demilitarized the area in a peace agreement. The Israelis, to "not violate" the ceasefire agreement, facilitated their allied rapists, murderers, and thieves to come in to this unprotected refugee camp to rape and murder the refugees.
Honestly, the world expects this, but just doesn't give a shit or they endorse it. May all those that bear a semblence of responsibility for these atrocities rot in hell.
Windows 10 End Of Life - Your Story
As the Windows 10 EOL date is close I was wondering what fellow Linux users thoughts about it are.
Are you helping open minded people making the switch to Linux? If yes, which distro are you using? Are you using resources like endof10.org?
Or are you using the the opportunity to get your hands on some cheap hardware for your homelab? Are you keeping an eye on special websites or just ebay (or your local equivalent)? Are you talking with local companies to get the hardware directly from them?
Or are you just observing and enjoy your peace of mind because you switched already to Linux before?
Whatever it is, we are very interested to hear your stories concering this interesting time.
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I have used Linux for a good while around the early 2000’s. Good memories.
Fast forward to now. Bought a new laptop with W11. hated it.
(Just imagine a long list of frustrations about W11, because I’m not going to contribute anything new by saying it)
-and finally, I want my data to be mine!
And so now I get to annoy my wife about how awesome Linux is. My dad is on the train as well. We both annoy our wives with Linux.
Man I use Windows 11 daily for work and I can't stand how fucking buggy and clunky everything is. It's so bad.
Once in a while I'll boot my Linux desktop and it's just.... Bliss. Other than that I spend a lot of time on my steam deck, love that too.
Loops Joins the Fediverse
Loops Joins the Fediverse
We're excited to announce that Loops now federates with the fediverse. After months of development, ActivityPub support has officially entered beta. Your loops can now travel across the open social web.Daniel Supernault (Loops Official Blog)
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did they fix the feed and algorithm issues yet? or is it still doing the thing where it shows you the same feed every time you open the app.
edit: just reinstalled to check. it doesn't seem to have been updated since February and the feed issue still persists. that is a shame. I hope they can fix it.
What exactly are Palestinians going to "continue" to do? Be slaughtered, starved, and otherwise eradicated by the colonialists?
Whether you intended it or not, saying "Israel and Palestine will continue" implies that there's anything resembling an equivalence between the actions of the genocidal apartheid regime and those of Palestinians.
Never
Point 9 of the peace deal. means that Gaza will be controlled by Trump and Tony Blair, and will follow the guidelines of "Trump's 2020 peace plan"
amd Article 4 and 5 of the Palestinian statehood guidelines:
4 Take no action, and shall dismiss all pending actions, against the State of Israel, the United States and any of their citizens before the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, and all other tribunals;5 Take no action against any Israeli or United States citizen before Interpol or any non-Israeli or United States (as applicable) legal system;
The only way to stop the genocide was by forcing them on pain of starvation (Article 7&8) to become a colony and are barred from seeking any legal justice.
[Video] EDIT: Released Palestinian hostage finds out his family is still alive!He believed they had been killed because the IDF told him so.
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When I read "hostage", my mind raced to still black and white photos from WWII. Not full HD colour video footage.
What happened to the world, where its 2025, and there are STILL wars and hostages happening...
Here is a reupload on Catbox files.catbox.moe/9mymc6.mp4
Other people tell me that Catbox does not work for them so this makes it all very difficult. I usually try to upload sub1min stuff to Imgur. But I will try to include a catbox mirror in future posts
Indian textile exporters turn to Europe, offer discounts to offset US tariffs
cross-posted from: lemmy.zip/post/50939117
Indian textile exporters are seeking new buyers in Europe and offering discounts to existing U.S. customers to cushion the blow from steep U.S. tariffs of as much as 50%, industry executives said.
It is impossible to do so I tell you. They threaten to pack bags and leave if you dare take any action against them.
No government can control corpos. Hell they were using 'tax saving methods' that hurt the US, were in the panama papers. Also part of a dodgy scheme in the Netherlands.
I could go in detail but i can assure you that it is impossible to do so your way.
Australian Government gets a taste of what everyday people have to deal with in terms of data breaches as Prime Minister Anthony Albanese's mobile phone number released online
ABC News
ABC News provides the latest news and headlines in Australia and around the world.Evelyn Manfield (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Why do we still still use phone numbers for communication? It’s a terrible idea. One unifying piece of information that if anyone gets they can use. Bah.
We should have a communication method that both sides consent to before allowing the connection. Either side can kill that connection at any time by revoking permission on either side. The contact info shouldn’t be the same for everyone either, but something ephemeral instead. Unique. A burner phone number that’s different to each person and only useful if the connection originates from the one meant to have that number.
It’s 2025. We still have “you have been hacked, give me gift cards to save your Google Chrome” style shit going on.
Reminds me of SSH keys a bit!
What is an SSH key? SSH key pairs explained
Learn all about SSH keys, including how they work for authentication, what the key pair is, how to generate the public and private keys, and more.Sectigo
Korea's military faces officer shortage amid record exodus - The Korea Times
According to data obtained from the Ministry of the National Defense by Rep. Yu Yong-weon of the main opposition People Power Party (PPP), the number of voluntary resignations among officers and noncommissioned officers with 10 to 20 years of service reached an all-time high last year.A total of 1,821 personnel in that category left the military in 2024, up from 960 in 2021. As of the end of September this year, 1,327 had already filed for voluntary discharge.
The number of officers taking leave has also increased sharply, from 2,252 in 2021 to 3,412 last year, with this year’s figure already at 3,401.
Korea's military faces officer shortage amid record exodus
South Korea’s military is confronting a deepening personnel crisis as record numbers of mid-ranking officers — the backbone of its command structur...Bahk Eun-ji (The Korea Times)
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Antibiotic resistance surges globally, UN health agency warns
new data show that one in six bacterial infections globally are resistant to standard antibiotics“Antimicrobial resistance is outpacing advances in modern medicine, threatening the health of families worldwide,” said WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.
Antibiotic resistance surges globally, UN health agency warns
Common infections are becoming harder – and sometimes impossible – to treat, the UN World Health Organization (WHO) warned on Monday, as new data show that one in six bacterial infections globally are resistant to standard antibiotics, endangering mi…UN News
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So super ebola is gonna come from the US.
American Journalist Says She Experienced ‘Extreme Brutality’ at Hands of Israeli Guards, Including Beatings and ‘Threats of Rape’
Journalist Noa Avishag Schnall accused Israeli guards of treating her and other prisoners with “extreme brutality” on Monday, including beatings and “threats of rape,” after being taken by Israeli forces from international waters while aboard the Conscience Freedom Flotilla.
In a video statement published to social media, Schnall – a Los Angeles-born photojournalist who had been reporting from the flotilla for Drop Site News – recalled the “extreme brutality” she allegedly experienced during her captivity.
“Any flotilla member who upset the Israeli guards was subjected to twisted and tightened handcuffs and some received beatings,” she said. “I was hung from the metal shackles on my wrists and ankles and beaten in the stomach, back, face, ear, and skull by a group of men and women guards, one of whom sat on my neck and face, blocking my airways.”
The journalist continued, “Many comrades, understandably, do not want their identity made public when recounting this treatment. During the evening, the men were tormented by guards with attack dogs and guns. The women were threatened with pepper spray. Our cell was awoken with threats of rape.”
American Journalist Says She Experienced ‘Extreme Brutality’ at Hands of Israeli Guards, Inclu ...
Journalist Noa Avishag Schnall accused Israeli guards of treating her and other prisoners with "extreme brutality," including beatings and "threats of rape."Charlie Nash (Mediaite)
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Israeli captives felt like they were going to get raped because their guard stared at them for a few seconds.
Palestinian captives should not feel like they were going to get raped because their guards yell at them that they are going to rape them.
American Journalist Says She Experienced ‘Extreme Brutality’ at Hands of Israeli Guards, Including Beatings and ‘Threats of Rape’
Journalist Noa Avishag Schnall accused Israeli guards of treating her and other prisoners with “extreme brutality” on Monday, including beatings and “threats of rape,” after being taken by Israeli forces from international waters while aboard the Conscience Freedom Flotilla.
In a video statement published to social media, Schnall – a Los Angeles-born photojournalist who had been reporting from the flotilla for Drop Site News – recalled the “extreme brutality” she allegedly experienced during her captivity.
“Any flotilla member who upset the Israeli guards was subjected to twisted and tightened handcuffs and some received beatings,” she said. “I was hung from the metal shackles on my wrists and ankles and beaten in the stomach, back, face, ear, and skull by a group of men and women guards, one of whom sat on my neck and face, blocking my airways.”
The journalist continued, “Many comrades, understandably, do not want their identity made public when recounting this treatment. During the evening, the men were tormented by guards with attack dogs and guns. The women were threatened with pepper spray. Our cell was awoken with threats of rape.”
American Journalist Says She Experienced ‘Extreme Brutality’ at Hands of Israeli Guards, Inclu ...
Journalist Noa Avishag Schnall accused Israeli guards of treating her and other prisoners with "extreme brutality," including beatings and "threats of rape."Charlie Nash (Mediaite)
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Venezuela's Maduro calls Nobel Peace laureate Machado a 'demonic witch'
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Secret Israeli military bunker located under Tel Aviv tower struck by Iran, analysis shows [Jack Poulson and Wyatt Reed | October 13, 2025]
cross-posted from: lemmy.world/post/37318212
The Grayzone has geolocated the underground bunker of an important military command and control center nestled within a densely populated Tel Aviv neighborhood. Known as ‘Site 81,’ the U.S.-built facility houses a hyper-secretive intelligence base.When Iran struck a series of targets in the heart of north Tel Aviv with ballistic missiles on June 13, Israeli authorities immediately cordoned off the area to prevent journalists from filming the damage. “The building on this compound was just hit,” Trey Yingst of Fox News reported as he arrived that evening at the site of HaKirya, Israel’s Defense Ministry headquarters, and the nearby Azrieli Center. But within seconds, Israeli police officers arrived to aggressively shunt Yingst away from where he was standing, just north of the HaKirya Bridge on the west side of Menachem Begin Road.
That day, Iranian missiles struck the north tower of the Da Vinci apartment complex roughly 550 meters southwest of Yingst’s location. The Grayzone has determined that the building sits immediately south of the “Canarit” / “Kannarit” Israeli Air Force towers and above an underground military intelligence bunker jointly administered by the US and Israeli militaries. According to an analysis of leaked emails, public documents, and Israeli news reports, the location is host to a highly secretive, electromagnetically shielded intelligence facility known as “Site 81.”
Israel aggressively censors information relating to its urban military and intelligence facilities while simultaneously accusing its adversaries of engaging in ‘human shielding’ – a practice of protecting military targets with civilian populations that is prohibited by international humanitarian law. While the existence of a U.S. Army project to expand Site 81 to a 6,000 square-meter facility was widely reported from government records circa 2013, the specific location remained unknown...
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How Israel is laying the groundwork for ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon
For the early Zionists, settling Palestine meant settling the largest possible territory that vaguely overlapped with their biblical vision of the holy land.
Maps presented by the World Zionist Organization to the Paris Conference clearly show that Zionists sought to include in their territory southern Lebanon, including the Litani River and up to the coastal city of Saida - an estimated 60km from the current border.
Zionists, like all European settlers, were also keen to secure the most fertile land and fresh water sources. Eastern boundaries of the proposed map included large swathes of Syrian and Jordanian territory that fully engulfed Lake Tiberias and the Jordan River. French counter-proposals forced the Zionists to confine their activities after WWI to what is now referred to as historic Palestine.
Initial ambitions to colonise southern Lebanon were shelved but never extinguished. During this latest war, Michael Freund, who previously served as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s deputy communications director, claimed that “historically speaking, southern Lebanon is in fact northern Israel”. He cited the Book of Joshua as mentioning “Sidon explicitly as being promised to the Jewish people”. Freund also listed several shrines in the south as Jewish and evidence of the right to the land.
The invocation of religious sites as justification for colonial conquest is an old and debunked Zionist trope. Freund was not alone in reviving it. One of Israel’s pseudo-archaeologists, Zeev Erlich, was embedded in the Israeli army during the recent invasion of Lebanon. Israeli troops burned and destroyed parts of the shrine. Before withdrawing, they demolished the surrounding historic buildings of the village’s old quarter, the very place they claimed as theirs.
How Israel is laying the groundwork for ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon
Domestic haggling over the disarmament of Hezbollah is overshadowing the long-term and regional dimensions of Israel's warMiddle East Eye
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Venezuela’s Opposition Used UN Meeting to Lobby for US Coup
Meanwhile, the Venezuelan opposition, led by former presidential candidate María Corina Machado, the far-right extremist who just won the Nobel Peace Prize, used the UN General Assembly (UNGA) as a lobbying platform, courting the Trump administration and sympathetic foreign governments to support a coup to depose President Nicolás Maduro. She has been part of multiple calls for US interventions in Venezuela, including to, in her words, secure the “total asphyxiation of the Venezuelan economy.”
The opposition organized demonstrations in front of the Secretariat Building to denounce Maduro and call for the world to intervene. Pedro de Mendonça, Press Director for Machado’s campaign, hosted a protest saying, “Maduro is not the legitimate president of Venezuela, but the head of the Cartel of the Suns and the Tren de Aragua.” Mendonça called for “a free Venezuela and a secure West” through an “international coalition.” This is as direct a call for intervention as you could get. Machado retweeted it.
Venezuela’s Opposition Used UN Meeting to Lobby for US Coup | naked capitalism
The so-called opposition, with a much-needed rebranding assist from the Nobel Committee, proposes total economic surrender to US oligarchic interests.Conor Gallagher (naked capitalism)
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Ceasefire Sparks Fresh Calls for Global Media Access to Gaza
Ceasefire Sparks Fresh Calls for Global Media Access to Gaza
Press groups are also demanding justice for the more than 200 journalists slaughtered in Palestinian territory over the past two years.jessica-corbett (Common Dreams)
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Katie Porter's meltdown proves candidates can't be shamed into quitting anymore
Katie Porter’s video meltdowns won’t make her quit her California governor campaign
In the digital era, candidates have no incentive to drop out; given the ocean of information, any attention is now good attention.Christian Schneider (MSNBC)
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What ever happened to Nicole the fediverse chick?
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UK arms received by Israel reach record high value in 2025
Last week, FactCheck revealed that Israel imported over £400,000 worth of arms from UK companies in June 2025 – the highest monthly amount since these records began in January 2022.
The exact nature of the items wasn’t specified in the data, but they were listed under a category that includes bombs, grenades, torpedoes, missiles, and ammunition.
And we can now exclusively reveal that September was the second highest value month on record, with over £310,000 worth of UK munitions under this same category arriving in Israel.
...
Israel dismissed the Commission’s report as “distorted and false” and said the expert panel were acting as “Hamas proxies”.
The UK government told us it does not “export bombs or ammunition for IDF use in military operations in Gaza or the West Bank”.
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Aaand this is why UK has been so adamant to quell protests against Israel’s genocidal actions: money
Enjoy the MMOG of capitalism, where only a few griefers using exploits get to win.
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Planet’s first catastrophic climate tipping point reached, report says, with coral reefs facing ‘widespread dieback’
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Here in South Australia we are starting to see the effects and it's pretty chilling.
The algae bloom affecting many of our suburban beaches (which is most of Adelaide) and a lot of country ones are seeing huge numbers of dead marine life being washed up.
Anything from leafy sea dragons to fish, stingrays, and sharks. The foam created on some days covers whole sections of beach.
While apparently it's safe, there are warnings that you may experience breathing issues and rashes so your supposed to bring your inhaler and rinse off after you have been in. On windy days it can affect you even if your walking close to the beach.
As we head into summer the damage to local seaford providers (the seafood is fine to consume but people are wary) and cafe owners will be huge and is already starting to take effect.
Because our beaches are so close, people would go down after work for a dip or have a drink at the suburban pubs and cafes.
abc.net.au/news/2025-07-23/sa-…
ABC News
ABC News provides the latest news and headlines in Australia and around the world.Jessica Haynes (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
From the Abstract:
"Our analysis reveals three critical success factors: (1) higher carbon prices per capita are essential for carbon reduction, (2) the necessity of penalties on carbon price per capita from EUR 20–EUR 100, and (3) expanded market coverage maximizes impact. To address global disparities, we propose a Uniform Carbon Pricing Mechanism under the Global Carbon Resilience Framework (GCRF), based on carbon price per capita tiered pricing: EUR 100/t (developed), EUR 30–50 (developing), and EUR 5–15 (least-developed countries). This balanced system supports vulnerable regions while cutting emissions, proving that fair carbon pricing is crucial for climate goals and economic stability."
Those points look sane, to me.
_ /\ _
Forty-two killed as bus crashes on South Africa mountain pass
N1 crash: Forty-two Zimbabweans and Malawians killed after bus veers off road in South Africa
The dead were nationals of Zimbabwe and Malawi returning home, officials say.Khanyisile Ngcobo (BBC News)
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India and Canada reset ties after strain of Sikh leader's murder
Anita Anand: Canada foreign minister meets Indian PM Modi amid thawing ties
Canada's foreign minister visits Delhi as the sides restore ties strained by a murder on Canadian soil.Neyaz Farooquee (BBC News)
German club condemns fan behaviour after tourists attacked
Dublin: FC Schalke 04 fans' behaviour condemned after tourists attacked
The incident on Abbey Street was said to have happened on Saturday, as supporters marched through the city centre.Mike McBride (BBC News)
Middle East 'doomed' without Palestinian state, King of Jordan tells BBC
Middle East 'doomed' without Palestinian state, King of Jordan says
In an exclusive interview with BBC Panorama, the king says a two-state solution is the only answer.Fergal Keane (BBC News)
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Endmaker
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Tribalism. Humankind haven't progress beyond the instincts of having in-groups and out-groups.
Until that happens, there will be discrimination. People would see things in black and white instead of understanding there are shades of gray between.
.Donuts
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •It's just tribalism. This is ingrained in us. Our group good. Other group bad. It's survival.
Doesn't make it right. Or logical. Best we can do is check ourselves when we have these thoughts or perform these actions. And to call out others who do it.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to .Donuts • • •flamingo_pinyata
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •They tend to congregate at the extremes both left and right. Anywhere when they can loudly judge and exclude others.
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FishFace
in reply to flamingo_pinyata • • •I work with this by feeling morally superior to people with un-nuanced opinions.
I wonder if I can start a movement...
Diva (she/her)
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •I'm not a fan of the infighting either. It's a very online kind of tribalism. I'm pretty active in anarchist organizing where I live and routinely have people from all sorts of tendencies showing up to help out without it devolving into a struggle session over factional infighting from a hundred years ago.
Just from the time I've spent here it seems like it's specifically the people occupying the centrist liberal positions who are most invested in fostering a culture of leftist infighting
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Talking of the tribalism. How come an anarchist is on .ml
Is the experience there OK?
Diva (she/her)
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Valmond
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Diva (she/her)
in reply to Valmond • • •Valmond
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Oh I see, it is I who have to "welcome a different option".
Most of "communism" here on lemmy is either hardcore stalin/lenin/mao authoritarian ruling or it is some sort of workers dictatorship. What's not to criticise? And when you try to discuss you get downvoted and people act aggressively, or so I feel.
I also does not know what that has to do with anarchism?
Diva (she/her)
in reply to Valmond • • •reread my comment, not what I said. Maybe if you're less quick to call people tankies you might not get called a liberal in response.
I consider a workers dictatorship to be a lesser evil compared to the dictatorship of capital we live in currently.
To put it simply, anarchists want to abolish hierarchy, communists want to abolish private property. They overlap when you want both. Liberals tend to oppose dismantling both of those things.
Valmond
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Okay, like I'd love everyone getting together well, but I know it won't happen, but I can still try, and maybe make the world a little better.
Your ideas are absolutists, there is no possible gradation, and even taken one by one they are insane idea that has never worked, and you want both? How is that even going to work? No property, no rulers, I mean good luck with that.
It's just not possible to have a serious conversation here, so I wish you luck!
Cheers
Edit: well look at all that civilised discussion right here! Ah no? Only anonymous downvotes without any reason? Who would have thought...
Diva (she/her)
in reply to Valmond • • •you: "It's impossible to have a serious conversation here, so I wish you luck!"
me: okay, I won't bother responding
you: "woe is me, nobody responded, only downvotes"
idk what you expected tbh
Valmond
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Well I did hope for an answer, but all I got was victim blaming.
If you can't say, respectfully, what you think, how do you think there could be a meaningful excange of ideas?
For what I have understood: you roughly think all actual existing government are bad, police is bad, banks are bad, enforcing rules are bad, having your own things are bad.
If that's so, how is your society suppose to do anything productive or useful?
Valmond
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Serinus
in reply to Valmond • • •Diva (she/her)
in reply to Serinus • • •Serinus
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •Just read these 14 books from 1930 if you want to have an opinion. No, I can't summarize anything from them. They can only be understood in their entirety.
All hail Putin, Xi.
Diva (she/her)
in reply to Serinus • • •Seems like a caricature rather than someone that's actually around.
I really don't see anyone of consequence on lemmy being like 'no Putin is good actually.'
One example, I was reading a hexbear (allegedly tankie central) thread a while back where they were shitting on the CPRF for receiving praise from Putin for their support of the SMO. (ie saying that they were losers that lenin would have had shot, and that they're not communist)
Skiluros
in reply to Diva (she/her) • • •You are a tankie though.
In what substantive manner (real world issues) are you different from a stereotypical tankie?
In this very thread you bring up "approved narrative" in context of russian genocidal imperialism. This is comically stupid (and very ironic) for anyone that knows russian and has lived there.
You even bring up "workers dictatorship" in a seemingly serious manner. There have never been any worker's dictatorships, just some thugs dominating everyone else with some communist styled marketing and PR.
Samskara
in reply to Valmond • • •gedaliyah
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Right wingers will be like, "Well he's racist but we agree on taxes and the gays so he's all right with me."
Left wingers will be like, "We disagree on one of the 100 most important issues to me, therefore you are my enemy!"
Ensign_Crab
in reply to gedaliyah • • •No.
Centrists lie when they claim to agree with progressives, as indicated by their legislative accomplishments: blocking progressive legislation and arming genocide.
You may agree with them on those points, but don't pretend that centrists care about anything else at all because they just fucking don't.
gedaliyah
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •like this
AmidFuror e HarkMahlberg like this.
Ensign_Crab
in reply to gedaliyah • • •gedaliyah
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •I'm going to go right now into your history and upvote every comment of yours I agree with
Edit: I found a few dozen from recent weeks. We agree on more than you think. Many I'd already upvoted.
Ensign_Crab
in reply to gedaliyah • • •It's great that you agree with me on some things.
Democrats still need to listen to criticism. They still need to realize that there are things they can do that will cause people who would otherwise vote for them to stay home in well-earned disgust. Voters have standards, and when they see a party willing to do nothing for them and anything for a genocidal apartheid regime on the other side of the planet, the expectation of unquestioning enthusiasm takes a lot of gall.
You can blame voters all you want, but the party wasn't failed by the voters. The voters were failed, repeatedly, over the course of decades, by a party that has no interest in ever actually representing them.
Serinus
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •You're encouraging people to "stay home in well-earned disgust". That serves the fascists.
End of story.
There are ways to say what you want to say carefully. But in my opinion stopping the Nazis needs to come before any other priorities.
Ensign_Crab
in reply to Serinus • • •I'm remarking on a genuine phenomenon. At no point did I tell anyone to stay home, but anyone who wants no criticism of the party interprets all criticism as such.
There is no criticism of the worst behavior of the party that won't be regarded as disloyalty from people who like how the party moved so far to the right that it supported genocide.
democrats didn't even consider that enough of a problem to change their most odious position.
CannonFodder
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •Ensign_Crab
in reply to CannonFodder • • •Nothing but performative worship of democrats for their support for genocide will ever satisfy centrists.
Nothing the left ever does will ever be enough because every centrist got the only thing any of them wanted with the genocide support.
The party is shit on purpose until they change and their apologists love it.
gedaliyah
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •No one here brought up the Democratic Party or genocide except you.
This is a post about division on Lemmy.
You actually don't have to demonstrate that. You can choose to find common ground in the culture of the platform and save the division for matters that are important to you in the communities that discuss them. That's up to you, friend.
Ensign_Crab
in reply to gedaliyah • • •And it sure would be nice for all the centrists who spent a solid year screeching abuse at anyone who dared to say that genocide was wrong if anyone who said it could be silenced by saying that they're being divisive.
Meanwhile, I don't see you saying boo to anyone who's calling anyone to their left a tankie in this thread. "Divisive" is a club used by the orthodox to enforce orthodoxy.
I can choose to agree with genocide or shut up. That's the only thing you're saying.
gedaliyah
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •I'm not scrolling through the thread to police people. I'm just responding to you as one person to another. I'm certainly not trying to shut you up.
I didn't call you or anyone else in this thread a tankie, because I actually agree with the premise that Lemmy could benefit from a more collaborative culture. I'm not identifying and harping on which political issues we disagree on here, because there are plenty of other threads on Lemmy for that.
I'm just letting you know that I honestly believe that you and I are on the same side. We agree on 90% of the most important issues in the world right now. I don't think there is any daylight between us when it comes to Trump or unions or healthcare or LGBTQ+ or protecting online speech or most other things. I don't consider you an enemy at all, and I hope you think the same about me. We can and should (and have) discuss when we disagree on threads related to topics where we differ.
Neglecting the majority of topics where we support one another does not benefit us, Lemmy, or the world.
Ensign_Crab
in reply to gedaliyah • • •Then tell the people who supported genocide for a solid year. Oh wait. You agree with them about 100% of everything and wonder why I'm so hung up on a little insignificant thing like genocide.
Progressives have been betrayed by the party for decades. We've watched the party come up with constant procedural bullshit to throw in their own way to block progressive policy for decades. And then we watched them ignore actual law because they wanted, dearly wanted netanyahu to have his genocide. And because we had the temerity to be upset at genocide, we're being blamed for the loss democrats refused to let go of their only actual policy to avoid.
Democrats slow-walked the trump investigations out of an unwillingness to pursue justice. They happily broke the rail strike. They let republicans set the narrative on trans people and did nothing to challenge that narrative at best, and actively participated in it by running republicans' hateful "boys in girls sports" talking point in their own ads at worst. Their actions run contrary to their stated positions.
You have made it clear that you don't want me to talk about topics on which we differ, on the grounds that expecting accountability from democrats is "divisive."
daniskarma
in reply to gedaliyah • • •mistermodal
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Hey, I don't speak for anyone here, but this isn't a problem. Decentralization is a means to an end, not a desirable state in and of itself. Federated networks being separate from each other is fine. I feel this has been a critical misunderstanding among advocates of open source social media.
Honestly, best experiences I have had on ActivityPub were replacements for a group chat of 40-200 persons, not an attempted replacement for Twitter. (Also crucially not on a Mastodon fork but stuff like Akkoma.)
Since this app is clearly for some people a replacement for the general mechanics of websites like Stack Overflow, HN, and Reddit, and for other people meant to be a direct fork of specific Reddit communities, it makes sense to me that the networks would diverge completely, though it seems it hasn't happened yet.
What really kept me from using Lemmy is the poor integration with Mastodon. It's not a UI thing. Mbin and Kbin were a step in the wrong direction by furthrt splitting the UI between two types of posts that are the same under the hood
whaleross
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Nobody hates leftists like other leftists with a slightly different flavour of leftism. This is by tradition as long as the leftist discourse has been up. Plenty of people find it unthinkable with nuances or compromises even for communal goals that would benefit everybody.
Add to this that social media is inherently toxic and anonymity brings out the absolute worst in many people to spew hate for slight differences in opinion.
It's too bad but I'd recommend you to not get caught up in it and don't let it get to you. People are people and the chances that they will change in any foreseeable future are small. Keep doing what you think is positive and constructive and don't let others make you disappointed.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to whaleross • • •hypna
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •It would be interesting to learn something about the demographics on Lemmy.
I usually liken the bad vibes on Lemmy to being stuck with a bunch of cynical teenagers. Nothing is ever good enough, nothing good can happen. They know this with absolute certainty.
I am also probably older than average here.
Serinus
in reply to hypna • • •I think some of it is intentional, and some are just taken along by that.
Also it's always easier to throw rocks from the sidelines than to actually lead. It's so much easier to find something wrong with everything than it is to try to figure out the right thing to do.
Plus nuance is always difficult. Better to just treat everything as back and white.
TubularTittyFrog
in reply to whaleross • • •Amen.
Honestly, IRL or online, once that 'my leftism is the only good leftism' shit starts, I leave the community. I have no time for bigots and bullies in my life. No matter the flavor of their politics.
And I go find another group where they actually do good work, rather than sitting on their asses pontificating about how noble and good they are and how they need more minorities in the group to improve their brand image.
db0
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •In my experience, we don't have quite that many leftists trying to rile each other up. What often happens is that some people want to character assassinate some others due to previous dislikes or because they oppose one of their core beliefs, so they try to blow up any "impurities" they can find in order to turn people against them. You can see it with people who get short term bans from leftist places and then get into year-long grudges.
Generally I would suggest people start ignoring people who constantly post and try to stir up drama about whole instances or specific subgroups of lemmy users. For example, I dislike intensely, like threads.net, hilariouschaos and lemmygrad and yet you don't see me constantly opening drama threads about them.There's some caveats in this statement, but it by and large, it applies imho.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to db0 • • •Yeah 'my honor has been slighted and so i must now escalate' is quite common.
Character assassinations too.
But yesterday we had 2 fellow dbzer0 folks do this very trolling/ baiting. Which they also planned in the matrix channel. I think I instantly made clear I strongly disliked that. So did the community. And there was an apology luckily.
But we both know there's one provocateur there. Who I personally always have had lovely chats with. But someone who likes to go looking for trouble.
And thats not an isolated case. Many similar profiles I've seen.
db0
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •There's a lot of .ml users that make accounts on db0 because so many instances blocked .ml and their users.
db0 also doesn't do much to stop their instance from being abused like this.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Ofiuco
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •I can say I have, used to see a lot of propaganda from my country being constantly crossposted from ml and hexbear, since dbzero (among others) tolerates them, it helps them bypass the faulty defederation/blocking system that lemmy has so it kept appearing in my feed and I had to see accounts dedicated to defend the propaganda.
Until I moved to Piefed and was able to actually block them (also this instance defederated them).
Tribalism isn't always bad, sometimes it's needed to help take care of others by cutting off bad instances or instances that enable them. It's not black and white.
db0
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to db0 • • •Ive never seen non anarchists capable of understanding the anarchist perspective. Its like theres some mental block preventing it.
And not just on Lemmy. Just generally, unimaginable idea for people
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
in reply to db0 • • •And then they never back it up.
irelephant [he/him]
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
in reply to irelephant [he/him] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Eugene V. Debs' Ghost • • •∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name] • • •Oh shit, that's news to me! 🫠
Guess I have an alternate personality that actually knows tech and can host awesome wesites like ComLib? News to me! Or, this personality of me?
Welcome to the Comrades Library! — Comrades Library
comlib.encryptionin.spaceEugene V. Debs' Ghost
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •You have repeatedly made this claim but still haven't given any proof after a few weeks.
Please demonstrate the users you believe are alts of .ml and other instances. Any and all of them.
thoro
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Ek-Hou-Van-Braai
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •youtu.be/O-qcXpapsoY
- YouTube
youtu.beSkiluros
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Might be worth looking at the behaviour of so called leftists on Lemmy.
Many of them openly support and cheer for russia's invasion of Ukraine and support summary killing of Ukrainians ("summary executions in Bucha [and beyond] is a BIA conspiracy!!!" is not a serious statement), openly state that Ukraine does not have the right to self-determination and generally support the extermination of Ukrainian culture, language and identity.
I am from Ukraine, from Donbas (Lugansk) no less. What sort of reaction do you expect when you see alleged leftists cheers for the total occupation of Lugansk by the Russians with BS like "Lugansk is free of da Nasizzz !1!1!".
Or what about Jeromy Corbyn fanboys denying Corbyn's open support for russian genocidal imperialism (keep in mind these type of things get reported in Ukrainian media)? The fucker literally worked for Russia Today (which is managed by russian intel) and cheered the annexation of Crimea in 2014.
As far as I am concerned, I hope all tankies meet the same fate as "Donbas Cowboy", Russell Bentley.
Is this an unreasonable reaction to disgusting tankies? What reaction do you expect?
Russian Soldiers Charged With Involvement In American's Death
Current Time (RFE/RL)like this
HarkMahlberg likes this.
NoTagBacks
in reply to Skiluros • • •like this
celeste likes this.
technocrit
in reply to NoTagBacks • • •Skiluros
in reply to technocrit • • •It's still possible for internal US dynamics to change and there have been positive outcomes from US foreign policy (Germany, Japan, Poland, Baltic nations).
The same cannot be said about russia and China.
NoTagBacks
in reply to technocrit • • •To call America a fascist state is just dishonest. To call the EU fascist is unhinged. Where America is certainly struggling internally with a legitimate attempt at a fascist takeover, too many fundamental principles of the republic remain intact to honestly define the country as a fascist state. There are plenty of things to criticize about the US government, it being fascist isn't one of them.
Russia, however, is literally doing an old school imperialist invasion right now. Like, shaky casus belli and everything. They're even throwing in a whole host of red flags indicating a genocide. Their "elections" are consistently used as textbook examples of rigged elections using statistical analysis. Political enemies of Putin are assassinated, jailed, and suppressed. The state sponsors a narrative campaign of a fictitious idealized Russian ethno-state. Public dissent is actively and harshly suppressed by the state. There are re-education camps to indoctrinate certain demographics with Russian supremacist propaganda. Russia is a fascist state. The tankies that rush to defend Russia online are defending a fascist state. That is directly contradictory to leftist principles and is, quite frankly, fucking stupid.
So to reply to someone pointing out how ridiculous it is for tankies to support a fascist state like Russia with "hurrdurr libs support fascist usa/eu" is yet another dishonest strawman wrapped in a red herring. And, certainly no surprise to anyone paying attention, just serves as another example of a tankie talking point that refuses to engage the actual argument.
technocrit
in reply to Skiluros • • •Don't forget the libs openly promoting genocide in palestine.
Tankies and libs are basically the same thing with different imperial branding.
Skiluros
in reply to technocrit • • •Strongly disagree on this one. Tankies and MLs are almost universally supportive of genocidal imperialism and authoritarianism.
Had some unhinged ML quote tweet my post about how she was in no position to complain about removal of Soviet monuments (she doesn't live in Kyiv, doesn't walk in Kyiv's parks and doesn't pay local taxes).
"Libs" do not all hold identical views on Palestine. If anything, negative perceptions of Israel (not just the current leadership) is on the rise. Libs are no where near tankies or MLs in terms of toxicity and comical stupid polemics (I refuse to believe tankies genuinely believe NK is a vanguard against imperialism and a great place to live).
craftymansamcf
in reply to Skiluros • • •So only after a genocide is escalated do libs finally move away from open support? Damn what a group to be aligned with.
Skiluros
in reply to craftymansamcf • • •What a myopic and childish worldview.
We live in an imperfect world, good trends need to be capitalized on and not dismissed with some edgelord BS.
craftymansamcf
in reply to Skiluros • • •The good trend in this case is murdering half a million Palestinians has slightly shifted liberals views on their chosen settler state?
By god, at this rate it will only take the genocide of the entire middle east by israel to finally have liberals decide that it all should end. Just in time for the racially pure ethnostate to by complete! How convenient!!
Serinus
in reply to Skiluros • • •Skiluros
in reply to Serinus • • •I have Lemmygrad and Hexbear blocked. ML still has a few communities that need to move off ML.
FWIW, I actively mod/curate several communities that have become vibrant alternatives to the original (half dead) ML variants.
I actually joined Threadiverse via ML (did think the domain and their application was strange but didn't think too much about it) and then I realized Dessalines also admins Lemmygrad and he is a scumbag; of course I left ML ASAP.
I am generally doing my part to move over to Piefed, which also has a lot of cool features and better devs.
Serinus
in reply to Skiluros • • •AlexisFR
in reply to Serinus • • •InternetCitizen2
in reply to Skiluros • • •It was my understanding that the USSR insisted that its constituent republics were independent. Maybe the tankies need to revisit that.
Skiluros
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •So independent that Moscow could extract all food supplies from Ukraine to create a horrific man-made famine.
The fact of the matter is that tankies don't believe in self-determination or democracy (the few who are not shitposting and/or engaging malicious demagoguery).
FinnFooted
in reply to Skiluros • • •technocrit
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •like this
adhocfungus likes this.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to technocrit • • •Youre an anarchist so I get seeing tankies as right wing. Infact I'm the weird one for not seeing them as right wing but i don't.
Libs yes are righties
like this
adhocfungus likes this.
Coriza
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to Coriza • • •stardust
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Tankies feel like they push pseudo communism with the bourgeoisie still at the top giving scraps to the proletariat and passing it off as paltry socialism. There’s no societal change to the hierarchy, balance of power, or wealth. Usually some power of personality to rally around as their God who's surrounded themselves with oligarchs who are enriching themselves and providing scraps to pass off as communist enough.
It’s more a weird ultra nationalism where proletariats are being tricked into thinking power has been given to the people when the ones at top are abusing their power to oppress forms of counter thought to seize whatever they want and retain their wealth. I wouldn’t consider them left just because there’s some form of socialism. Lot of countries do if at the very least they fix roads and have fire fighters.
The integration of authoritarianism just conflicts with my idea of communism, since my idea of communism is power to the people and one where the government fears the people because people control the means of production and they choose who stays in power. Not trading the usual suspects of kings, dictators, warlords, or whatever they call themselves for a different coat of paint.
thoro
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •You're correct. They aren't right wing. They are communists.
I haven't figured out if I'm fully anarchist, a "left libertarian" who can accept a restrained state, or if I'm coming around to being an ML, tbh.
And I'm not sure if I care. I just want capitalism dismantled and fascism/conservativism opposed. And I don't want a police state.
But, and this is gonna be hypocritical of me, I feel like the sectarianism always seems to be coming from online anarchist and progressive spaces. Like no don't join our mass movement against capitalism if you, IDK, don't dislike China enough? Doesn't make sense to me.
🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •whaleross
in reply to 🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖 • • •Optional
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •I’m kind of surprised to not see this answer, so I’ll throw it in: it seems to me that there are a lot of people from various countries who have built-in language for politics that they believe is shared across the world - but it isn’t.
As a dumb American, I’ve always been a liberal because that was the inclusive, progressive, luxury-gay-space-communism option as opposed to the conservative, regressive, racist, ignorant violent option. People from other countries don’t seem to appreciate that at all, because their “liberal” is what we’d call neoliberal or corporate Democrat, and they apparently don’t have a FPTP / Slaver’s College fix on their elections and they just don’t grok the two party thing.
As you can imagine on here there’s a lot of hate from both conservatives and leftists for “liberals”. I think that’s ridiculous but it’s usually easier to try and adopt their definitions than to explain why the other 379,999,999 of us don’t use it that way. (Well - 350M, say. Parts of the PNW use it that way too.). It’s just kind of exhausting in threads about American politics.
If someone calls me a “liberal” (or libtard, libcuck, etc) I naturally assume they’re racist, fascist, AM radio fuckwits. But then they want to jump into some world where H4A, UBI, No Oil is what they’re all about and once again I’m like - well, yeah we agree, again. So.
(Usually the retort is, “well then why are you a liberal?!” Which. Goes back to the exhausting thing.)
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to Optional • • •The most important point of unity for the left is the economics. Political identity must be defined by being the proletariat first and foremost.
When you have people who break that, well their place is questioned.
Optional
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Mmm hmmm. Yeah. Yes.
So an American proletariat is . . . Anyone who is limited by health insurance, student loans, and mortgage rates? Or is it something else?
We don’t really use the word proletariat, uh, at all. Ever.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to Optional • • •Optional
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •That’s pretty much every liberal I know, yeah.
Well. I know some house painters I guess. They don’t work for someone else, per se.
SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to Optional • • •Yeah being part of smth and identifying as smth are two separate things.
I'm a man, straight, brown, proletariat etc. The question is what part of that do I see as the most fundamental part of my identity or politics.
Optional
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •SnokenKeekaGuard
in reply to Optional • • •This is also where the concept of alienation in the Marxist sense comes in. He took Hegel's framework, which Feuerbach and Bauer had used to analyse religion and he applied that to law and economics.
So this Marxist alienation which is in the Hegelian tradition is worth reading.
Now alienation can interestingly also be a desired outcome in leftist movements as the French existentialists talked about.
We also have a third brand of alienation in Buddhism etc.
Some want it some hate it.
I'm with Marx on this one.
If you are interested I can find some introductory article for you to take a look at.
Optional
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •I have a little knowledge there, but I'm good, thanks. I'm really more interested in defeating the republiQan hate machine so we can get people healthcare and save the environment.
Not that it's not interesting - I just have a slightly different take than Marx because Marx didn't live in 2025.
zerofk
in reply to Optional • • •To me as a European, posts and comments about US politics can be very confusing. There’s the different interpretation on the word liberal you mentioned. There’s also the fact that the colours are reversed: here red is for the left - socialists and communists - while blue is the liberal right (not so much conservative right, though there are conservative subgroups of the “blues”). And there’s the fact that they often assume familiarity with political events and people unknown to me.
Somewhat related: posts and comments from the far and extreme left are often even more incomprehensible. They seem to have their own language entirely.
Optional
in reply to zerofk • • •thoro
in reply to Optional • • •Liberalism has an actual definition. Neoliberalism is a subset of liberalism. Either way, neither position is socialist and both are capitalist. That's the distinction. That's always been the distinction. Leftist politics is distinctly anti capitalist.
To leftists, liberalism, even progressive liberalism, can never address the material concerns for workers, inequal accumulation, and capitalism's contradictions because it cannot attack the central tenet of its ideology: the private ownership of land and resources. And most of the social stuff was being advocated by leftist groups in the west for years before they became popular enough for the mainstream, liberal parties to embrace.
I'm an American. Conflating liberalism with leftism is a media game that has successfully ensured the Overton window does not shift left. It reveals the mass political ignorance here. Of the policies you've listed, only H4A is arguably socialist.
You can understand the two party system and make decisions to support certain candidates/policies in an election without identifying as a liberal.
Optional
in reply to thoro • • •Well put, and yes I’d agree. Where I seem to draw the ire of leftists is when I point to the clock and say we have one year before we have to vote, and all things being equal we’re going to vote for the Democrats because attacking the central tenet of this country’s dominant ideology is not going to happen in this election cycle.
The 2024 Presidential election threads were a depressing reminder that some leftists can’t get out of their heads, or ivory towers, or whatever to make incremental progress because the glorious revolution is at hand. Or something. So I get to be the evil liberal who wants healthcare for all, student loan forgiveness, and a Green New Deal. And all of those things go down the shitter because republiQans vote as a single juggernaut bloc and we don’t.
Joshi
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •I'd like to share my offline perspective here. All online spaces are kind of heightened versions of the discourse, Lemmy less so than other places but it's still there.
In the real world leftists are generally kind and empathetic people who genuinely want to do good. It's nice when you find another leftist, I have friends who are various flavours of anarchist and socialist and even some real life, genuine, aging commune hippies now living in town. There is no animosity and we would basically all agree on local direct action or local politics. In my experience even most liberals are just naive rather than genuinely holding counterproductive political beliefs.
It can feel very lonely but you're not alone.
Mangoguana
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •KeenFlame
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Coopr8
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •Learn the Political Compass
Because politics is not limited to Left and Right, compressed down to it's minimum reasonable simplicity it is at least two dimensional. In mass media you see "Left" vs "Right" division, on Lemmy you see Lib Left vs Auth Right vs Center divisions, which are just as strong but largely suppressed by entrenched political interests especially in the US but also across the industrialized world where Lib Left has been suppressed by the capitalist political apparatus.
Note that most of the time when someone on the Fediverse decries "Liberals" they mean capitalist centrist in the "Neo-Liberal" mode. In some specific circumstances though you might see Auth Left criticizing Lib Left with the term, essentially insulting them by lumping them in with the Centrists. In other cases more in line with mass media you might see any Right position using the term against anyone center or left of center.
Essentially, Liberal has become a term only meaningful in context, and for that reason largely useless in common discourse. This is why the Political Compass is so useful a tool, situating political positions in their context, though of course it is flawed by being only two dimensional when actual political groups are very much multidimensional.
Coopr8
in reply to Coopr8 • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Coopr8 • • •The political compass is actually a terrible tool. Left vs right is broadly okay if framed as collectivized ownership as principle vs privatized ownership as principle, but economies in the real world aren't "pure," and trying to gauge how left or right a country is by proportion of the economy that is public vs private can be misleading. The next part, "libertarian vs authoritarian," is a false binary. The state is thoroughly linked to the mode of production, you don't just pick something on a board and create it in real life. There's no such thing as "libertarian capitalism," as an example. Centralization vs decentralization may make more sense, but that can also be misleading, as centralized systems can be more democratic than decentralized systems.
The creator of the compass is also politically biased.
As a fun little side-note, I can answer the standard political compass quiz and get right around the bottom-left while being a Marxist-Leninist that approves of full collevtivization of production and central planning. Yet, at the same time, the quiz will put socialist states in the top left, seemingly based on how the creator wants to represent things. It's deeply flawed. Add on the fact that it's more of an idealist interpretation of political economy than a materialist one, and you've got a recipe for disaster.
- YouTube
www.youtube.comCoopr8
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •At first read I see a flaw in the first part of your argument, which is that centralization vs collectivization of economic ownership is not directly indicative of policy, rather it is the percentage of economic output which is used for collective services that dictates the Left/Right spectrum, which indeed is how a Far Left position can be coextant with a market economy and private ownership but with a tax or public stake in economic actors that returns a majority of the "profit" to collective service, it is rather the degree of enforcement of property rights as one of a set of rights and regulations by a central Authority which lies on the Auth/Lib spectrum that dictates the structure of the economic order. This is how for example you could be a Lib/Left Marxist who prefers central planning of the economy, so long as you don't believe the central planning should be enforced by monopoly of violence and instead implemented by collective consensus, there is no fundamental conflict in the position. Leninism on the other hand implies use of force by a centralized state military/police to restructure the economy along central planned lines, which is an Authoritarian position.
I agree the "quiz" is very flawed, it would need an order of magnitude more questions to be accurate, and authorship bias is certainly an issue.
That said, the compass itself I find to be quite accurate to the mental political models of most individuals. What you are pointing to, Centralization vs Distribution, is a relatively new way to concieve of the older Federal vs Local or State vs Community political framework. I would indeed view this as a "third axis" or omission by the two axis compass, as both Authority and Economy can have organization and flow biased towards fewer or more numerous nodes of participation/enforcement. To go back to your Lib Left Marxism, you could say that the Marxism part of that formula calls for a State economic planning model with high collectivization of economic output and low State enforcement of policy. On thing often missing from the Auth/Lib axis description is that reduced State enforcement does not mean reduced enforcement overall, but rather that the enforcement does not rely on the state monopoly on violence, instead directing enforcement through social exchange relying on the individuals applying their independent power onto each other to discourage deviancy from the consensus.
An easy example of this is in many tribal groups and including pacifist Western religious sects the worst corrective action an individual faces is shunning, which relies on all of the individuals of the community independently choosing to no longer participate socially or economically with the individual being corrected. The decision to do so may be more or less centralized or decentralized (for example a Priarch/Priest might declare shunning in a nonviolent Christian community, while a specific tribal group may only do so through a process of full group consensus, or even the most lib/local of all a spontaneous reaction of each individual against the deviant based on norms.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Coopr8 • • •You're wrong about the Marxist-Leninist position, though, and that's exactly why the compass makes no sense. Marxists all agree on using the state as the collective means by which planning is accomplished. All the compass does is make things more confusing.
Overall, it is much better to abandon trying to measure things on a non-existent spectrum than it is to try to force them into one.
dil
in reply to SnokenKeekaGuard • • •