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I'm about to sign off for the year - actually, I was ready to do it yesterday, but then I happened upon a brief piece of writing that was so perfect that I decided I'd do one more edition of Pluralistic for 2025.

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If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

pluralistic.net/2025/12/18/sel…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

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Getting to the of this article just makes me think of this:
youtu.be/0X0-NpZpx6U

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Also think about why the farmer is selling their harvest early at a set price. A rich farmer could wait for the money and take the gamble on the final price. Most farmers have to hedge their risk because they're not rich.

As for the other side of that hedge, the person taking that gamble is, by necessity, rich. They can front the money, and can gamble on poor crops. And, in many cases, they can manipulate the risk itself by say buying up canned mangoes and choosing if and when to sell them.

So, even in the narrow, best case where the financiers are offering risk hedging as a service, like in gambling "the house always wins".

in reply to Cory Doctorow

Gary Stevenson's work is incredible! The work you both do are very complimentary in my opinion. I think you would love the guy and his book. Very excited to hear you talk about Gary!

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

excellent writeup. It never was a few rotten apples, it was always a rotten barrel backed by finance bros.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Perfect capper to the year: take a truncheon to "capital allocation" and the parasites who practice it. Thanks for a great year, Mr. Doctorow 👏🏻

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

isn't it worse than that? There is the cost of all the infrastructure to make that all happen, paid for by the margin in every deal. The house always wins.
in reply to Cory Doctorow

the source article linked by Cory is quite long but really good! Definitely give it a read if you have some time:

lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n17/jo…

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in reply to wall-e / Daniel

the last part of that piece contains a humbling realization: if you're participating in the stock market, chances are you're mostly Quant-fodder
in reply to wall-e / Daniel

@wall_e Which is what everyone was forced into when corporations got away with phasing out pensions for 401ks?
in reply to wall-e / Daniel

thinking about this a little more...there's a potentially very sinister side to this.
Consider all the "retail broker" apps people are using. Robinhood, Webull, Trade Republic and the like. All these apps generate tracking and telemetry data, all those orders go through large market makers.
Have you read those privacy policies? I'm willing to bet that the data these generate end up in some Quant models, allowing them to predict how "retail" moves
in reply to wall-e / Daniel

@wall_e I used to work for a startup that built a smartphone stock trading game and mined player activity for signals that were then used to drive investment decisions.

The results were … not great. The in-house quant (very smart guy) identified a few signals that seemed promising, but they never really made a ton of money from it.

So I'm 100% sure that the retail broker apps are tracking user activity, but I also suspect it may not be making them super rich.

in reply to Cory Doctorow

The way all this theory was sold to me when I worked in it was that yeah derivatives may all be zero-sum trades but they all generate valuable telemetry that can be mined for signals to use in refining the effectiveness and efficiency of the market.

That’s a more nuanced and subtle point to consider. It’s also complete horseshit, and it’s reinforced and fortified horseshit that costs a whole lot more to effort to debunk than the bullshit used to snow the retail investors.

One suspects the real purpose of all that derivative froth has long been to provide a maze of twisty passages in which to hide to the world’s vast money laundering operations.

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in reply to The Janx Devil

@janxdevil From what I have read somewhere, derivatives were originally intended to be an insurance against market volatility.
in reply to Jakub Narębski

@jnareb Yeah, it makes some sense in physical commodity markets, where the time value of money and high cost high latency logistics means buying and selling futures helps long traders avoid volatility.

Problem is there have to be short traders on the other side of all those long traders, and they thrive on volatility. The more volatile the market the more they can take out, and they are in a position to cause the volatility they are trading on.

Of course, the obvious way to nerf the short traders is to take away the long traders on the other side of their trades. Give commodities markets a way to hedge their long risks without throwing them to the wolves in the derivatives market.

But you know… that would be socialism. And so here we are.

in reply to The Janx Devil

@janxdevil or maybe generate another layer of speculative boardgame in which they squeeze liquidity from those with excess into the pockets of a few instead of finding ways to make it positively usable by society. Ergo, another layer of the FIRE economy
in reply to Cory Doctorow

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in reply to V

@miss_rodent Some economists argue that financial derivatives are how the economy "allocates resources in the most efficient manner". If this is true it is incredibly inefficient.
@V
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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Must mention John Kay's Parable of the Ox ft.com/content/bfb7e6b8-d57b-1… The first paragraph of the LRB article mentions the book that resulted from this very popular FT article.

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