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Remember the first time you used Google search? It was like magic. After years of progressively worsening search quality from Altavista and Yahoo, Google was literally stunning, a gateway to the very best things on the internet.

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If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

pluralistic.net/2024/04/04/tea…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/2

Today, Google has a 90% search market-share. They got it the hard way: they cheated. Google spends tens of billions of dollars on payola in order to ensure that they are the default search engine behind *every* search box you encounter on every device, every service and every website:

pluralistic.net/2023/10/03/not…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/3

Not coincidentally, Google's search is getting progressively, monotonically worse. It is a cesspool of botshit, spam, scams, and nonsense. Important resources that I never bothered to bookmark because I could find them with a quick Google search no longer show up in the first *ten* screens of results:

pluralistic.net/2024/02/21/im-…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/4

Even after all that payola, Google is wildly profitable. So profitable that they were able to do a *$80B* stock buyback. Months later, Google fired 12,000 tech workers. Essentially, Google is saying that they don't need to spend money on quality, because we're all locked into using Google search. It's cheaper to buy the default search box everywhere in the world than it is to make a product that is so good that even if we tried another search engine, we'd still prefer Google.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/5

This is enshittification. Google is shifting value away from end users (searchers) and business customers (advertisers, publishers and merchants) to itself:

pluralistic.net/2024/03/05/the…

And here's the thing: there are search engines out there that are *so good* that if you just try them, you'll get that same feeling you got the first time you tried Google.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/6

When I was in Tucson last month on my book-tour for my new novel *The Bezzle*, I crashed with my pals @pnh and @tnh. I've know them since I was a teenager (Patrick is my editor).

We were sitting in his living room on our laptops - just like old times! - and Patrick asked me if I'd tried Kagi, a new search-engine.

Teresa chimed in, extolling the advanced search features, the "lenses" that surfaced specific kinds of resources on the web.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/7

I hadn't even heard of Kagi, but the Nielsen Haydens are among the most effective researchers I know - both in their professional editorial lives and in their many obsessive hobbies. If it was good enough for them...

I tried it. It was *magic*.

No, seriously. All those things Google couldn't find anymore? Top of the search pile. Queries that generated *pages* of spam in Google results? Fucking *pristine* on Kagi - the right answers, over and over again.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/8

That was *before* I started playing with Kagi's lenses and other bells and whistles, which elevated the search experience from "magic" to *sorcerous*.

The catch is that Kagi costs money - after 100 queries, they want you to cough up $10/month ($14 for a couple or $20 for a family with up to six accounts, and some kid-specific features):

kagi.com/settings?p=billing_pl…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/9

I immediately bought a family plan. I've been using it for a month. I've basically stopped using Google search altogether.

Kagi just let me get a lot more done, and I assumed that they were some kind of wildly capitalized startup that was running their own crawl and and their own data-centers. But this morning, I read @jasonkoebler's @404mediaco report on his own experiences using it:

404media.co/friendship-ended-w…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/10

Koebler's piece contained a key detail that I'd somehow missed:

> When you search on Kagi, the service makes a series of “anonymized API calls to traditional search indexes like Google, Yandex, Mojeek, and Brave,” as well as a handful of other specialized search engines, Wikimedia Commons, Flickr, etc. Kagi then combines this with its own web index and news index (for news searches) to build the results pages that you see.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/11

So, essentially, you are getting some mix of Google search results combined with results from other indexes.

In other words: *Kagi is a heavily customized, anonymized front-end to Google*.

The implications of this are *stunning*. It means that Google's enshittified search-results are a *choice*.

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Oblomov reshared this.

in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/12

Those ad-strewn, sub-Altavista, spam-drowned search pages are *a feature*, not a bug. Google *prefers* those results to Kagi, because Google makes more money out of shit than they would out of delivering a good product:

theverge.com/2024/4/2/24117976…

No *wonder* Google spends a whole-ass Twitter *every year* to make sure you never try a rival search engine.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/13

Bottom line: they ran the numbers and figured out their most profitable course of action is to enshittify their flagship product and bribe their "competitors" like Apple and Samsung so that you never try another search engine and have another one of those *magic* moments that sent all those Jeeves-askin' Yahooers to Google a quarter-century ago.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/14

One of my favorite TV comedy bits is Lily Tomlin as Ernestine the AT&T operator; Tomlin would do these pitches for the Bell System and end every ad with "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company":

snltranscripts.jt.org/76/76aph…

Speaking of TV comedy: this week saw FTC chair Lina Khan appear on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. It was *amazing*:

youtube.com/watch?v=oaDTiWaYfc…

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/15

The coverage of Khan's appearance has focused on Stewart's revelation that when he was doing a show on Apple TV, the company prohibited him from interviewing her (presumably because of her hostility to tech monopolies):

thebignewsletter.com/p/apple-g…

But for me, the big moment came when Khan described tech monopolists as "too big to care."

What a phrase!

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/16

Since the subprime crisis, we're all familiar with businesses being "too big to fail" and "too big to jail." But "too big to *care*?" Oof, that got me *right in the feels*.

Because that's what it feels like to use enshittified Google. That's what it feels like to discover that Kagi - the good search engine - is mostly Google with the weights adjusted to serve users, not shareholders.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/17

Google used to care. They cared because they were worried about competitors and regulators. They cared because their workers *made* them care:

vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/…

Google doesn't care anymore. They don't have to. They're the search company.

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in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/16

I’m not entirely sure it’s fair to describe Kagi as “mostly Google” - we don’t know what the weighting is of the different engines they query under the hood.

But the rest of it, yes, totally agree. I haven’t used Google regularly for ages; every time I try it I’m surprised how much worse it’s gotten.

in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/15
"Too big to care" is right on the money for all these corps in consolidated industries that are engaged in a race to the bottom. Phone & internet, airline, search, etc.

Cory Doctorow reshared this.

in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/11

The implications of Kagi heavily relying on Google may be stunning, but it's also quite worrying isn't it?

I'm tempted to try Kagi and wouldn't mind paying, but I would hope that this strategy is a stepping stone to becoming truly independent. If they ever grow big enough to compete or inconvenience Google, I'm sure they can just cut them off or mess with them in some way. There's no way this setup can be the long term solution to our search needs.

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
in reply to Cory Doctorow

Long thread/11
Genuine question: how do you grapple with Kagi’s partnership with Brave? Brave’s CEO is Brandon Eich who has donated in support of banning same sex marriage in California. I ask because it’s kept me from trying Kagi and I wish it didn’t. kagifeedback.org/d/2808-recons…
Unknown parent

in reply to Cory Doctorow

I remember when Google updated its index about once per month, and you had to manually submit URLs that it hadn't crawled, or that you had modified recently.
in reply to Cory Doctorow

the first thing I loved about google search was its simple interface. In a world where most people used dial-up connections (I did, at that time), the other search engines had big images that took time (and money) to load. Google, instead, just gave you what you wanted: results. Now google gives me what I don't want: the creeps

Cory Doctorow reshared this.

in reply to Cory Doctorow

When I think about the downfall of Google I’m reminded of this blog post from 2008 googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/0…, back when Google prided themselves on a simple uncluttered homepage. Oh how the mighty have fallen from our grace and risen to immense capitalistic heights.

P.S. I had to use DuckDuckGo to find this blogpost, Google served me tons of useless results.

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 anno fa)
in reply to Cory Doctorow

When in 2000 I wrote a search engine review to an Estonian computer magazine I considered Altavista better for refined and accurate searches, but appreciated Google for generic queries as it lacked optional keywords and did not well enough respect my operators -- I think it was rather mass than magic that made me out of convenience prefer Google more and more, because the core experience did not ever really change. gafgaf.infoaed.ee/posts/intern…

reshared this

in reply to Cory Doctorow

Interestingly, I'm not experiencing quite as bad results with Google as you describe. Usually, it still works OK, even if yes, strangely uncritical stuff started turning up when searching for reviews.

It *might* be because I'm in a non-English-speaking country in Europe... The enshittification may not have reached us yet.

Might also be topic? I search for a lot of free software/Python/math related stuff, so not a lot of pretexts for selling stuff.

in reply to Jerome

@dl2jml
Fun fact: Currently I'm in the UK, and Google search results are *much* worse here than in DK. They seem *much* more enshittified. Like, I'm searching for tech stuff and am bombarded with pages selling clothes and shoes.