‘Sputnik moment’: $1tn wiped off US stocks after Chinese firm unveils AI chatbot
Tech shares in Asia and Europe fall as China AI move spooks investors
Progress by startup DeepSeek raises doubts about sustainability of western artificial intelligence boomDan Milmo (The Guardian)
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toothbrush
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •like this
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themoonisacheese
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in reply to themoonisacheese • • •toothbrush
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in reply to toothbrush • • •like this
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jacksilver
in reply to themoonisacheese • • •My understanding is it's just an LLM (not multimodal) and the train time/cost looks the same for most of these.
I feel like the world's gone crazy, but OpenAI (and others) is pursing more complex model designs with multimodal. Those are going to be more expensive due to image/video/audio processing. Unless I'm missing something that would probably account for the cost difference in current vs previous iterations.
Visualizing the Training Costs of AI Models Over Time
Dorothy Neufeld (Visual Capitalist)will_a113
in reply to jacksilver • • •The Extreme Cost Of Training AI Models
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jacksilver
in reply to will_a113 • • •My main point is that gpt4o and other models it's being compared to are multimodal, R1 is only a LLM from what I can find.
Something trained on audio/pictures/videos/text is probably going to cost more than just text.
But maybe I'm missing something.
will_a113
in reply to jacksilver • • •like this
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jacksilver
in reply to will_a113 • • •I'm not sure how good a source it is, but Wikipedia says it was multimodal and came out about two years ago - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPT-4. That being said.
The comparisons though are comparing the LLM benchmarks against gpt4o, so maybe a valid arguement for the LLM capabilites.
However, I think a lot of the more recent models are pursing architectures with the ability to act on their own like Claude's computer use - docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/bui… which DeepSeek R1 is not attempting.
Edit: and I think the real money will be in the more complex models focused on workflows automation.
Computer use (beta) - Anthropic
docs.anthropic.comWalnutLum
in reply to jacksilver • • •Yea except DeepSeek released a combined Multimodal/generation model that has similar performance to contemporaries and a similar level of reduced training cost ~20 hours ago:
huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/Jan…
deepseek-ai/Janus-Pro-7B · Hugging Face
huggingface.coveroxii
in reply to WalnutLum • • •modulus
in reply to jacksilver • • •scratsearcher 🔍🔮📊🎲
in reply to toothbrush • • •Most rational market: Sell off NVIDIA stock after Chinese company trains a model on NVIDIA cards.
Anyways NVIDIA still up 1900% since 2020 …
how fragile is this tower?
Phen
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •like this
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protist
in reply to Phen • • •The money went back into the hands of all the people and money managers who sold their stocks today.
Edit: I expected a bloodbath in the markets with the rhetoric in this article, but the NASDAQ only lost 3% and the DJIA was positive today...
Nvidia was significantly over-valued and was due for this. I think most people who are paying attention knew that
shootwhatsmyname
in reply to protist • • •like this
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Hexadecimalkink
in reply to protist • • •Jimmycakes
in reply to Hexadecimalkink • • •Hexadecimalkink
in reply to Jimmycakes • • •someacnt
in reply to protist • • •mosscap
in reply to Phen • • •protist
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Is the "emergence of DeepSeek" really what raised doubts? Are we really sure there haven't been lots of doubts raised previous to this? Doubts raised by intelligent people who know what they're talking about?
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floofloof
in reply to protist • • •Ah, but those "intelligent" people cannot be very intelligent if they are not billionaires. After all, the AI companies know exactly how to assess intelligence:
Microsoft and OpenAI have a financial definition of AGI: Report | TechCrunch
Maxwell Zeff (TechCrunch)☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •like this
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Ech
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •like this
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drspod
in reply to Ech • • •chiliedogg
in reply to drspod • • •And without the fake frame bullshit they're using to pad their numbers, its capabilities scale linearly with the 4090. The 5090 just has more cores, Ram, and power.
If the 4000-series had had cards with the memory and core count of the 5090, they'd be just as good as the 50-series.
lordnikon
in reply to chiliedogg • • •Lumiluz
in reply to lordnikon • • •SplashJackson
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •like this
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SocialMediaRefugee
in reply to SplashJackson • • •jsomae
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •x.com
X (formerly Twitter)NoSpotOfGround
in reply to jsomae • • •Text below, for those trying to avoid Twitter:
Most people probably don't realize how bad news China's Deepseek is for OpenAI.
They've come up with a model that matches and even exceeds OpenAI's latest model o1 on various benchmarks, and they're charging just 3% of the price.
It's essentially as if someone had released a mobile on par with the iPhone but was selling it for $30 instead of $1000. It's this dramatic.
What's more, they're releasing it open-source so you even have the option - which OpenAI doesn't offer - of not using their API at all and running the model for "free" yourself.
If you're an OpenAI customer today you're obviously going to start asking yourself some questions, like "wait, why exactly should I be paying 30X more?". This is pretty transformational stuff, it fundamentally challenges the economics of the market.
It also potentially enables plenty of AI applications that were just completely unaffordable before. Say for instance that you want to build a service that helps people summarize books (random example). In AI parlance the average book is roughly 120,000 tokens (since a "token" is about 3/4 of a word and the average book is roughly 90,000 words). At OpenAI's prices, processing a single book would cost almost $2 since they change $15 per 1 million token. Deepseek's API however would cost only $0.07, which means your service can process about 30 books for $2 vs just 1 book with OpenAI: suddenly your book summarizing service is economically viable.
Or say you want to build a service that analyzes codebases for security vulnerabilities. A typical enterprise codebase might be 1 million lines of code, or roughly 4 million tokens. That would cost $60 with OpenAI versus just $2.20 with DeepSeek. At OpenAI's prices, doing daily security scans would cost $21,900 per year per codebase; with DeepSeek it's $803.
So basically it looks like the game has changed. All thanks to a Chinese company that just demonstrated how U.S. tech restrictions can backfire spectacularly - by forcing them to build more efficient solutions that they're now sharing with the world at 3% of OpenAI's prices. As the saying goes, sometimes pressure creates diamonds.
Last edited 4:23 PM · Jan 21, 2025 · 932.3K Views
Tiger
in reply to NoSpotOfGround • • •shawn1122
in reply to jsomae • • •Etterra
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •davel
in reply to Etterra • • •lordnikon
in reply to davel • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to davel • • •What DeepSeek has done is to eliminate the threat of "exclusive" AI tools - ones that only a handful of mega-corps can dictate terms of use for.
Now you can have a Wikipedia-style AI (or a Wookiepedia AI, for that matter) that's divorced from the C-levels looking to monopolize sectors of the service economy.
davel
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •Google “We Have No Moat, And Neither Does OpenAI”
SemiAnalysisWoodScientist
in reply to davel • • •It's not about hampering proliferation, it's about breaking the hype bubble. Some of the western AI companies have been pitching to have hundreds of billions in federal dollars devoted to investing in new giant AI models and the gigawatts of power needed to run them. They've been pitching a Manhattan Project scale infrastructure build out to facilitate AI, all in the name of national security.
You can only justify that kind of federal intervention if it's clear there's no other way. And this story here shows that the existing AI models aren't operating anywhere near where they could be in terms of efficiency. Before we pour hundreds of billions into giant data center and energy generation, it would behoove us to first extract all the gains we can from increased model efficiency. The big players like OpenAI haven't even been pushing efficiency hard. They've just been vacuuming up ever greater amounts of money to solve the problem the big and stupid way - just build really huge data centers running big inefficient models.
dependencyinjection
in reply to Etterra • • •Overhyped? Sure, absolutely.
Overused garbage? That’s incredibly hyperbolic. That’s like saying the calculator is garbage. The small company where I work as a software developer has already saved countless man hours by utilising LLMs as tools, which is all they are if you take away the hype; a tool to help skilled individuals work more efficiently. Not to replace skilled individuals entirely, as Sam Dead eyes Altman would have you believe.
WoodScientist
in reply to dependencyinjection • • •Yes, in the same way that buying a CD from the store, ripping to your hard drive, and returning the CD is a tool.
werefreeatlast
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •DigitalDilemma
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Doomsider
in reply to DigitalDilemma • • •RandomVideos
in reply to Doomsider • • •They should conquer a country like Switzerland and split it in 2
At the border, they should build a prison so they could put them in both an American and a Chinese prison
MurrayL
in reply to DigitalDilemma • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to DigitalDilemma • • •Not really a question of national intentions. This is just a piece of technology open-sourced by a private tech company working overseas. If a Chinese company releases a better mousetrap, there's no reason to evaluate it based on the politics of the host nation.
Throwing a wrench in the American proposal to build out $500B in tech centers is just collateral damage created by a bad American software schema. If the Americans had invested more time in software engineers and less in raw data-center horsepower, they might have come up with this on their own years earlier.
DigitalDilemma
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •wrekone
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •PlantPowerPhysicist
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Joe Dyrt
in reply to PlantPowerPhysicist • • •Zink
in reply to PlantPowerPhysicist • • •wulrus
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •تحريرها كلها ممكن
in reply to wulrus • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to تحريرها كلها ممكن • • •Naia
in reply to تحريرها كلها ممكن • • •Which is actually something Deepseek is able to do.
Even if it can still generate garbage when used incorrectly like all of them, it's still impressive that it will tell you it doesn't "know" something, but can try to help if you give it more context. which is how this stuff should be used anyway.
Pieisawesome
in reply to wulrus • • •It’s knowledge isn’t updated.
It doesn’t know current events, so this isn’t a big gotcha moment
Klear
in reply to Pieisawesome • • •lud
in reply to Klear • • •wulrus
in reply to Pieisawesome • • •Krauerking
in reply to wulrus • • •What you trying to be on skynets good side or something?
Doomsider
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •TankovayaDiviziya
in reply to Doomsider • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Doomsider • • •Democrats and Republicans have been shoveling truckload after truckload of cash into a Potemkin Village of a technology stack for the last five years. A Chinese tech company just came in with a dirt cheap open-sourced alternative and I guarantee you the American firms will pile on to crib off the work.
Far from fucking them over, China just did the Americans' homework for them. They just did it in a way that undercuts all the "Sam Altman is the Tech Messiah! He will bring about AI God!" holy roller nonsense that was propping up a handful of mega-firm inflated stock valuations.
Small and Mid-cap tech firms will flourish with these innovations. Microsoft will have to write the last $13B it sunk into OpenAI as a lose.
kshade
in reply to Doomsider • • •Naia
in reply to kshade • • •Just because people are misusing tech they know nothing about does not mean this isn't an impressive feat.
If you know what you are doing, and enough to know when it gives you garbage, LLMs are really useful, but part of using them correctly is giving them grounding context outside of just blindly asking questions.
kshade
in reply to Naia • • •Valmond
in reply to Doomsider • • •Treczoks
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Looks like it is not any smarter than the other junk on the market. The confusion that people consider AI as "intelligence" may be rooted in their own deficits in that area.
And now people exchange one American Junk-spitting Spyware for a Chinese junk-spitting spyware. Hurray! Progress!
tetris11
in reply to Treczoks • • •It is progress in a sense. The west really put the spotlight on their shiny new expensive toy and banned the export of toy-maker parts to rival countries.
One of those countries made a cheap toy out of jank unwanted parts for much less money and it's of equal or better par than the west's.
As for why we're having an arms race based on AI, I genuinely dont know. It feels like a race to the bottom, with the fallout being the death of the internet (for better or worse)
gerryflap
in reply to Treczoks • • •wulrus
in reply to Treczoks • • •Whats_your_reasoning
in reply to wulrus • • •RandomVideos
in reply to Treczoks • • •artificial intelligence
AI has been used in game development for a while and i havent seen anyone complain about the name before it became synonymous with image/text generation
Treczoks
in reply to RandomVideos • • •kshade
in reply to RandomVideos • • •تحريرها كلها ممكن
in reply to Treczoks • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Treczoks • • •LLMs aren't spyware, they're graphs that organize large bodies of data for quick and user-friendly retrieval. The Wikipedia schema accomplishes a similar, abet more primitive, role. There's nothing wrong with the fundamentals of the technology, just the applications that Westoids doggedly insist it be used for.
If you no longer need to boil down half a Great Lake to create the next iteration of Shrimp Jesus, that's good whether or not you think Meta should be dedicating millions of hours of compute to this mind-eroding activity.
WoodScientist
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •Westoids? Are you the type of guy I feel like I need to take a shower after talking to?
daltotron
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to daltotron • • •Not that demand will go down but that economic cost of generating this nonsense will go down. The number of people shipping this back and forth to each other isn't going to meaningfully change, because Facebook has saturated the social media market.
The efficiency is in the real cost of running the model, not in how it is applied. The real bottleneck for AI right now is human adoption. Guys like Altman keep insisting a new iteration (that requires a few hundred miles of nuclear power plants to power) will finally get us a model that people want to use. And speculators in the financial sector seemed willing to cut him a check to go through with it.
Knocking down the real physical cost of this boondoggle is going to de-monopolize this awful idea, which means Altman won't have a trillion dollar line of credit to fuck around with exclusively. We'll still do it, but Wall Street won't have Sam leading them around by the nose when they can get the same thing for 1/100th of the price.
kshade
in reply to Treczoks • • •Yep, because they believed that OpenAI's (two lies in a name) models would magically digivolve into something that goes well beyond what it was designed to be. Trust us, you just have to feed it more data!
That's the neat bit, really. With that model being free to download and run locally it's actually potentially disruptive to OpenAI's business model. They don't need to do anything malicious to hurt the US' economy.
Naia
in reply to Treczoks • • •I'm tired of this uninformed take.
LLMs are not a magical box you can ask anything of and get answers. If you are lucky and blindly asking questions it can give some accurate general data, but just like how human brains work you aren't going to be able to accurately recreate random trivia verbatim from a neural net.
What LLMs are useful for, and how they should be used, is a non-deterministic parsing context tool. When people talk about feeding it more data they think of how these things are trained. But you also need to give it grounding context outside of what the prompt is. give it a PDF manual, website link, documentation, whatever and it will use that as context for what you ask it. You can even set it to link to reference.
You still have to know enough to be able to validate the information it is giving you, but that's the case with any tool. You need to know how to use it.
As for the spyware part, that only matters if you are using the hosted instances they provide. Even for OpenAI stuff you can run the models locally with opensource software and maintain control over all the data you feed it. As far as I have found, none of the models you run with Ollama or other local AI software have been caught pushing data to a remote server, at least using open source software.
synae[he/him]
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •TankovayaDiviziya
in reply to synae[he/him] • • •SoulWager
in reply to synae[he/him] • • •Umbrias
in reply to SoulWager • • •SoulWager
in reply to Umbrias • • •Umbrias
in reply to SoulWager • • •SoulWager
in reply to Umbrias • • •Umbrias
in reply to SoulWager • • •Oh! Hahahaha. No.
the vc techfeudalist wet dreams of llm replacing humans are dead, they just want to milk the illusion as long as they can.
SoulWager
in reply to Umbrias • • •Umbrias
in reply to SoulWager • • •the tech is barely good enough that it is vaguely maybe feasibly cheaper to waste someone's time using a robot rather than a human- oh wait we do that already with other tech.
"in 20 years imagine how good it'll be!" alas, no, it scales logarithmically at best and all discussion is poisoned by "what it might be!" in the future, rather than what it is.
SoulWager
in reply to Umbrias • • •Umbrias
in reply to SoulWager • • •SoulWager
in reply to Umbrias • • •Umbrias
in reply to SoulWager • • •what money saved on wages?? it's competing with a dollar a day laborers. $10 per 1 million tokens, for the "bad" (they all suck) models (something that cant even do this job!). if you can pretend the hallucinations dont matter, you are getting a phone call for (4 letters per token, 6 minute avg support call, 135 wpm talking rate let's say 120 to be nice -> 720 tokens per call) = $0.0072 per call. the average call center employee handles around 40 calls a day, so hey, the bad cant-actually-do-it chatgpt 4 is 70 cents per day cheaper than your typical call center indian!
Except. that is the massively subsidized money hemorrhaging rate. We know that oai should be charging probably an oom or two more. and the newer models are vastly more expensive, o1 takes around 100x the compute, and still couldnt be a call center employee. so that price is actually at least $30 per day. Cheaper than a us employee, but still cant actually do the job anyway.
lud
in reply to Umbrias • • •Umbrias
in reply to lud • • •lud
in reply to Umbrias • • •The huge AI LLM boom/bubble started after chatGPT came out.
But of fucking course it existed before.
Umbrias
in reply to lud • • •WoodScientist
in reply to SoulWager • • •Arehandoro
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •I love how in the US they talk about meritocracy, competition being good, blablabla... but they rig the game from the beginning. And even so, people find a way to be better. Fascinating.
shawn1122
in reply to Arehandoro • • •JOMusic
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •thespcicifcocean
in reply to JOMusic • • •JOMusic
in reply to thespcicifcocean • • •They actually can't. Being open-source, it's already proliferated. Apparently there are already over 500 derivatives of it on HuggingFace.
The only thing that could be done is that each country in the West outlaws having a copy of it, like with other illegal materials.
Even by that point, it will already be deep within business ecosystems across the globe.
Nup. OpenAI can be shut down, but it is almost impossible for R1 to go away at this point.
Corkyskog
in reply to JOMusic • • •IngeniousRocks (They/She)
in reply to Corkyskog • • •mystic-macaroni
in reply to Corkyskog • • •Eatspancakes84
in reply to JOMusic • • •Valmond
in reply to Eatspancakes84 • • •Yeah there is a lot of bro-style crap going on right now, but China is a brutal dictatorship.
Choose wisely.
davel
in reply to Valmond • • •Chinese Scientists Are Leaving the United States Amid Geopolitical Tensions
Christina Lu (Foreign Policy)5in1k
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to 5in1k • • •leftytighty
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to leftytighty • • •This conclusion was foregone when China began to focus on developing the Productive Forces and the US took that for granted. Without a hard pivot, the US can't even hope to catch up to the productive trajectory of China, and even if they do hard pivot, that doesn't mean they even have a chance to in the first place.
In fact, protectionism has frequently backfired, and had other nations seeking inclusion into BRICS or more favorable relations with BRICS nations.
Eatspancakes84
in reply to 5in1k • • •conartistpanda
in reply to Eatspancakes84 • • •doubtingtammy
in reply to conartistpanda • • •Valmond
in reply to conartistpanda • • •Black History Month
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Black History Month • • •Horsey
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •Only building outdated chips on an old fab process. And they’re having a hard time hiring Americans to work there.
glassdoor.com/Reviews/TSMC-Rev…
Clent
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Naia
in reply to Clent • • •That, and they are just brute forcing the problem. Neural nets have been around for ever but it's only been the last 5 or so years they could do anything. There's been little to no real breakthrough innovation as they just keep throwing more processing power at it with more inputs, more layers, more nodes, more links, more CUDA.
And their chasing a general AI is just the short sighted nature of them wanting to replace workers with something they don't have to pay and won't argue about it's rights.
supersquirrel
in reply to Naia • • •SocialMediaRefugee
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •ByteJunk
in reply to SocialMediaRefugee • • •It's based on guessing what the actual worth of AI is going to be, so yeah, wildly speculative at this point because breakthroughs seem to be happening fairly quickly, and everyone is still figuring out what they can use it for.
There are many clear use cases that are solid, so AI is here to stay, that's for certain. But how far can it go, and what will it require is what the market is gambling on.
If out of the blue comes a new model that delivers similar results on a fraction of the hardware, then it's going to chop it down by a lot.
If someone finds another use case, for example a model with new capabilities, boom value goes up.
It's a rollercoaster...
WoodScientist
in reply to ByteJunk • • •I would disagree on that. There are a few niche uses, but OpenAI can't even make a profit charging $200/month.
The uses seem pretty minimal as far as I've seen. Sure, AI has a lot of applications in terms of data processing, but the big generic LLMs propping up companies like OpenAI? Those seems to have no utility beyond slop generation.
Ultimately the market value of any work produced by a generic LLM is going to be zero.
NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ
in reply to WoodScientist • • •Language learning, code generatiom, brainstorming, summarizing. AI has a lot of uses. You're just either not paying attention or are biased against it.
It's not perfect, but it's also a very new technology that's constantly improving.
Toofpic
in reply to NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ • • •UndercoverUlrikHD
in reply to WoodScientist • • •It's difficult to take your comment serious when it's clear that all you're saying seems to based on ideological reasons rather than real ones.
Besides that, a lot of the value is derived from the market trying to figure out if/what company will develop AGI. Whatever company manages to achieve it will easily become the most valuable company in the world, so people fomo into any AI company that seems promising.
Jhex
in reply to UndercoverUlrikHD • • •There is zero reason to think the current slop generating technoparrots will ever lead into AGI. That premise is entirely made up to fuel the current
"AI" bubble
UndercoverUlrikHD
in reply to Jhex • • •Leg
in reply to Jhex • • •Jhex
in reply to Leg • • •NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ
in reply to Jhex • • •That's not even true. LLMs in their modern iteration are significantly enabled by transformers, something that was only proposed in 2017.
The conceptual foundations of LLMs stretch back to the 50s, but neither the physical hardware nor the software architecture were there until more recently.
Dupree878
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ
in reply to Dupree878 • • •PlutoniumAcid
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •小莱卡
in reply to PlutoniumAcid • • •Yggnar
in reply to PlutoniumAcid • • •merari42
in reply to Yggnar • • •Jhex
in reply to PlutoniumAcid • • •Not necessarily... if I gave you my "faster car" for you to run on your private 7 lane highway, you can definitely squeeze every last bit of the speed the car gives, but no more.
DeepSeek works as intended on 1% of the hardware the others allegedly "require" (allegedly, remember this is all a super hype bubble)... if you run it on super powerful machines, it will perform nicer but only to a certain extend... it will not suddenly develop more/better qualities just because the hardware it runs on is better
PlutoniumAcid
in reply to Jhex • • •supersquirrel
in reply to PlutoniumAcid • • •merari42
in reply to Jhex • • •AdrianTheFrog
in reply to PlutoniumAcid • • •OpenAI could use less hardware to get similar performance if they used the Chinese version, but they already have enough hardware to run their model.
Theoretically the best move for them would be to train their own, larger model using the same technique (as to still fully utilize their hardware) but this is easier said than done.
Qwaffle_waffle
in reply to AdrianTheFrog • • •MetalMachine
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Phoenicianpirate
in reply to MetalMachine • • •tooclose104
in reply to Phoenicianpirate • • •TonyTonyChopper
in reply to tooclose104 • • •tooclose104
in reply to TonyTonyChopper • • •boomzilla
in reply to tooclose104 • • •I watched one video and read 2 pages of text. So take this with a mountain of salt. From that I gathered that deepseek R1 is the model you interact with when you use the app. The complexity of a model is expressed as the number of parameters (though I don't know yet what those are) which dictate its hardware requirements. R1 contains 670 bn Parameter and requires very very beefy server hardware. A video said it would be 10th of GPUs. And it seems you want much of VRAM on you GPU(s) because that's what AI crave. I've also read 1BN parameters require about 2GB of VRAM.
Got a 6 core intel, 1060 6 GB VRAM,16 GB RAM and Endeavour OS as a home server.
I just installed Ollama in about 1/2 an hour, using docker on above machine with no previous experience on neural nets or LLMs apart from chatting with ChatGPT. The installation contains the Open WebUI which seems better than the default you got at ChatGPT. I downloaded the qwen2.5:3bn model (see ollama.com/search) which contains 3 bn parameters. I was blown away by the result. It speaks multiple languages (including displaying e.g. hiragana), knows how much fingers a human has, can calculate, can write valid rust-code and explain it and it is much faster than what i get from free ChatGPT.
The WebUI offers a nice feedback form for every answer where you can give hints to the AI via text, 10 score rating thumbs up/down. I don't know how it incooperates that feedback, though. The WebUI seems to support speech-to-text and vice versa. I'm eager to see if this docker setup even offers APIs.
I'll probably won't use the proprietary stuff anytime soon.
Ollama
Ollamaλλλ
in reply to Phoenicianpirate • • •SpaceRanger
in reply to Phoenicianpirate • • •ollama.com/library/deepseek-r1
deepseek-r1
OllamaPhoenicianpirate
in reply to SpaceRanger • • •Thank you very much. I did ask chatGPT was technical questions about some... subjects... but having something that is private AND can give me all the information I want/need is a godsend.
Goodbye, chatGPT! I barely used you, but that is a good thing.
MetalMachine
in reply to Phoenicianpirate • • •Mongostein
in reply to Phoenicianpirate • • •Phoenicianpirate
in reply to Mongostein • • •Mongostein
in reply to Phoenicianpirate • • •Alsephina
in reply to Mongostein • • •jaschen
in reply to MetalMachine • • •CeeBee_Eh
in reply to MetalMachine • • •MetalMachine
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •Ascend910
in reply to MetalMachine • • •jaschen
in reply to Ascend910 • • •CeeBee_Eh
in reply to MetalMachine • • •apprehensively_human
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •jaschen
in reply to MetalMachine • • •Valmond
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •That's kind of normal, it was made in China after all and the developers didn't want to end up in jail I bet.
That said, china is of course a crappy dictatorship.
skuzz
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •DiaDeLosMuertos
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •Cere
in reply to DiaDeLosMuertos • • •Basically US company's involved in AI have been grossly over valued for the last few years due to having a sudo monopoly over AI tech (companies like open ai who make chat gpt and nvidia who make graphics cards used to run ai models)
Deep seek (Chinese company) just released a free, open source version of chat gpt that cost a fraction of the price to train (setup) which has caused the US stock valuations to drop as investors are realising the US isn't the only global player, and isn't nearly as far ahead as previously thought.
Nvidia is losing value as it was previously believed that top of the line graphics cards were required for ai, but turns out they are not. Nvidia have geared their company strongly towards providing for ai in recent times.
pyre
in reply to Cere • • •LaLuzDelSol
in reply to pyre • • •potustheplant
in reply to Cere • • •*pseudo
Sudo is a linux command-line tool.
LandedGentry
in reply to potustheplant • • •fuck reddit
:::
DiaDeLosMuertos
in reply to Cere • • •Yozul
in reply to DiaDeLosMuertos • • •DiaDeLosMuertos
in reply to Yozul • • •Cynicus Rex
in reply to DiaDeLosMuertos • • •"You see, dear grandchildren, your grandfather used to have an apple orchard. The fruits were so sweet and nutritious that every town citizen wanted a taste because they thought it was the only possible orchard in the world. Therefore the citizens gave a lot of money to your grandfather because the citizens thought the orchard would give them more apples in return, more than the worth of the money they gave. Little did they know the world was vastly larger than our ever more arid US wasteland. Suddenly an oriental orchard was discovered which was surprisingly cheaper to plant, maintain, and produced more apples. This meant a significant potential loss of money for the inhabitants of the town called Idiocracy. Therefore, many people asked their money back by selling their imaginary not-yet-grown apples to people who think the orchard will still be worth more in the future.
This is called investing, or to those who are honest with themselves: participating in a multi-level marketing pyramid scheme. You see, children, it can make a lot of money, but it destroys the soul and our habitat at the same time, which goes unnoticed by all these people with advanced degrees. So think again when you hear someone speak with fancy words and untamed confidence. Many a times their reasoning falls below the threshold of dog poop. But that's a story for another time. Sweet dreams."
buddascrayon
in reply to Cynicus Rex • • •Cynicus Rex
in reply to buddascrayon • • •DiaDeLosMuertos
in reply to Cynicus Rex • • •ziproot
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •scratsearcher 🔍🔮📊🎲
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •b161
in reply to scratsearcher 🔍🔮📊🎲 • • •Sir Arthur V Quackington
in reply to scratsearcher 🔍🔮📊🎲 • • •NutWrench
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •