to be precise, we said: you are very welcome to publicise our flaws: “Matrix needs way better antispam and moderation controls; I’m not going to use it any more” or whatever. but please do *not* repost abusive spam, spreading it even further, which does nothing other than [give the spammer the attention they want].
Meanwhile, we are working hard on anti-invitespam measures - and we apologise to those hit by the spammer.
Look, we all get it. Matrix is up against some tough competition and your core product is free and open source. One thing that could go a long ways is including an auto moderator bot for the free groups hosted on matrix.org. Or building in some more controls into the app for group admin and moderator teams.
Seeing posts like this, I simply had disabled invites on my server before it could spread to me, so I've not seen anything.
I'll keep the server for now, while migrating everything to ejabberd. It's got WIP Matrix support, so if I really have to, I'll be able to join a Matrix room, but everything else will be XMPP. There IDs can be hidden in a chat, making the spread of spam much more difficult, just because IDs cannot be scraped as easily.
I deeply regret having brought more than 3k users to Matrix.
This has just hindered us from adopting something better that works well. I also wanted to love Matrix and advertised it for a couple years, always thinking "Yeah, it's new, it will get better", but the issues have always stayed.
The people behind Matrix are nice and I wish them the best. Should the issue get solved in the future: I'll gladly try adopting it again. 😀
@erebion we're sorry that you've ended up here. what were the specific issues (on which clients, and which server(s)) which have been problematic? we're trying to map out actionable stuff (e.g. edent's 3pid invite issue in Element X got fixed: github.com/element-hq/element-…; we've been at war against abusive spam - github.com/element-hq/element-… etc) - but worried that actionable stuff is getting lost in the general "it sucks" feedback.
Your use case What would you like to do? I'd like to be able to report invites. At the moment the options for invites are: "Reject" "Reject & Ignore" we need a third option of "Reject, Ignore and R...
@erebion this is *very* helpful - thanks. it's interesting that performance sounds to be the root problem here. Synapse is certainly not that efficient, but it really shouldn't be that bad, and UTDs really should be dead as of 2024. Fractal hasn't enabled sliding sync yet, which explains why launch is slow, but Element X (for instance) should be instant, not slower than Fractal.
@erebion the feedback is really *not* being ignored though; just trying to get to the bottom of it. specifically, is your bad experience because you're using a particular server instance which is struggling?
But also feel like feedback is often just ignored, unfortunately. Hope the community interactions will improve, love the ejabberd community as a positive example.
My issues are mostly not even the spam (I just disabled invites), but mostly sloooow performance. Otherwise I'm fine with it all.
Sometimes Fractal neeeds 30 minutes to sync up when opening, it's written in Rust and should be fast enough.
I miss this as well... I am happily using the mautrix bridges, both for signal and whatsapp, and some time ago I asked Tulir about a mautrix-xmpp bridge. It looks like there is not enough interest from the Beeper team to make it happen... If someone has the skill I would be ready to fund the development of such bridge
I will add another feature request since we're here 😀 What about a way to create and share an element call invitation when starting a call in a bridged room? this way one could actually make video calls to contacts on other platforms...
I'm not a dev myself, but I would say that would be a nearly impossible job, there are a lot of different clients written in many different languages. But since element call is an independent app and you can already use it to create a conference room, similarly to Jitsi and invite people over, that would mean you could make a call from element to a WhatsApp contact, he could receive the invite and you could both join the call @element @matrix
I'm sorry, I don't think our discussion is contributing much to either project... Altough your last comment has brought a great song to my mind: radio.novababilonia.me/share/p… And the lyrics are actually not completely OT ;)
Terence Eden
in reply to Terence Eden • • •I've just been asked by @matrix to delete this post. They had the audacity to blame *me* for giving publicity to the problems they have.
If you can't run a service safely, you shouldn't run it at all.
The Matrix.org Foundation
in reply to Terence Eden • • •to be precise, we said: you are very welcome to publicise our flaws: “Matrix needs way better antispam and moderation controls; I’m not going to use it any more” or whatever. but please do *not* repost abusive spam, spreading it even further, which does nothing other than [give the spammer the attention they want].
Meanwhile, we are working hard on anti-invitespam measures - and we apologise to those hit by the spammer.
Dylan </closingtags.com>
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation • • •Richard Bairwell
in reply to Terence Eden • • •The Matrix.org Foundation
in reply to Richard Bairwell • • •Matrix.org Homeserver Terms and Conditions
matrix.orgerebion
in reply to Terence Eden • • •Seeing posts like this, I simply had disabled invites on my server before it could spread to me, so I've not seen anything.
I'll keep the server for now, while migrating everything to ejabberd. It's got WIP Matrix support, so if I really have to, I'll be able to join a Matrix room, but everything else will be XMPP. There IDs can be hidden in a chat, making the spread of spam much more difficult, just because IDs cannot be scraped as easily.
Really don't wanna see THAT.
erebion
in reply to erebion • • •I deeply regret having brought more than 3k users to Matrix.
This has just hindered us from adopting something better that works well. I also wanted to love Matrix and advertised it for a couple years, always thinking "Yeah, it's new, it will get better", but the issues have always stayed.
The people behind Matrix are nice and I wish them the best. Should the issue get solved in the future: I'll gladly try adopting it again. 😀
The Matrix.org Foundation
in reply to erebion • • •Invite spam harassment counter measures
konomikitten (GitHub)The Matrix.org Foundation
Unknown parent • • •The Matrix.org Foundation
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation • • •erebion
Unknown parent • • •Please let me know whether this reply is:
(1) helpful or
(2) not helpful
Currently on a train and cannot really focus, so it's a bit stream of conciousness.
erebion
Unknown parent • • •Oh and the privacy features!
XMPP can hide IDs in group chats, making it really hard to scrape IDs and spam.
I wish that simple feature would come to Matrix.
And setting a nick when joining and completely hiding the global nick.
Being able to hide the profile picture in public chats and only share it with contacts.
I don't want to show my face to the whole internet, nor do I want everyone on there to be able to contact me easily.
If those improvements are made -> fanboy.
erebion
Unknown parent • • •I think we need to do something about the gap.
We're stronger together as one large community with an open protocol instead of two divided once.
Together we could take over the world!1!!1!! 😛
erebion
Unknown parent • • •The other large issue, for me personally, is lacking interop with the other open decentralised protocol XMPP.
I run Bifrost, but it seems abandoned and buggy and I will probably have to switch it off soon, as it does not work well.
There was Parsee, which was hosted on a git that's no longer in existence, but still listed on matrix.org as alpha. That looked promising.
To win me back as a fan, personally:
- it must be more performant
- it must be interoperable with XMPP
erebion
Unknown parent • • •Also, I agree "it sucks" is unhelpful.
But also feel like feedback is often just ignored, unfortunately. Hope the community interactions will improve, love the ejabberd community as a positive example.
My issues are mostly not even the spam (I just disabled invites), but mostly sloooow performance. Otherwise I'm fine with it all.
Sometimes Fractal neeeds 30 minutes to sync up when opening, it's written in Rust and should be fast enough.
I suspect Element would be slower.
Centralscrutinizer
in reply to erebion • • •tulir - Overview
GitHubCentralscrutinizer
in reply to Centralscrutinizer • • •erebion
in reply to Centralscrutinizer • • •@centralscrutinizer Couldn't we just translate the video call into, for example, XMPP?
Why use a link, if it is all just standardised stuff that could be translated?
Please note I'm not a dev working on these things; I'd love if a dev could comment on this.
I'd like to make interoperability as seamless as possible.
Centralscrutinizer
in reply to erebion • • •@element @matrix
Centralscrutinizer
Unknown parent • • •radio.novababilonia.me/share/p…
And the lyrics are actually not completely OT ;)
A Kind Of Magic (Remastere...
Navidromeerebion
in reply to Centralscrutinizer • • •@centralscrutinizer How is it impossible?
XMPP already has a way to do video calls.
If Matrix just adds that, we can do some brilliant interop magic.