::: spoiler transcript A picture of the Ben Affleck Smoking meme, with the caption "Me seeing people on reddit telling other people to go to lemmy.world" :::
tankies => historical revisionism and genocide denial.
I donβt really care if they are authoritarian communists, I care that they deny or try to embellish massive human rights absuses and human suffering.
"I hate centralization, we should do less centralization"
posts a list of instances to avoid, 3/4 of which are actually much smaller in active users than his own, presumably just all instances he politically disagrees with
so that's 3/4 that you're saying to avoid because you personally have deemed their moderation policies objectively inferior (and judging by 1 and 2 you probably think the same about hexbear?)
sounds like they're just instances you politically disagree with, one of which does happen to also be massive. I'm not saying redditors should come to those 4 instances, they mostly shouldn't (grad and hexbear don't want most of them, .ml has been trying to not be "the default instance" since forever, and world is a shithole and already massive/centralizing), but your choice of list was transparently more political than it was about centralization, why not just be honest about that?
Or are you going to pull the "moderation policies are (or should be) objective and apolitical" canard?
The comment I was replying to said "Don't make perfect the enemy of good!", likely referring to getting users onto the fediverse from sites like reddit. I think recommending almost any instance but those ones is a good idea to newcomers.
Also, just because the title references centralisation, the biggest problem plaguing LW, doesn't mean there are other reasons to avoid it.
What context do you think they said that in? Were they referring to a completely different post? No, obviously not, the entire discussion has been about centralisation, because you made the title of the thread about centralisation, and now that's being used against you you're pretending that somehow the entire discussion you created about centralisation isn't about centralisation.
So you're annoyed about people being recommended lemmy.world, but not because of centralisation, you just titled it like you're annoyed by the centralisation? Are you just being a troll now?
No, I'm not trolling. I'm annoyed about people recommending LW, but not specifically because of centralisation. Centralisation is one of the larger issues though.
It honestly feels like you are misinterpreting the post (and comments) on purpose. Are you trolling?
Go look at your post from an impartial perspective. Forget what you were generally thinking about while making and posting it and look at what you actually posted and how you titled it. There is nothing there to indicate you were thinking about anything else. Nobody here is a mind reader, we do not have the context of the other stuff you were thinking about. The responses are to what you posted.
It doesn't matter if you've clarified what you meant to me, the discussion was about centralisation, so is still in that context. You need to go back and answer people's actual questions instead of just claiming to me that you meant far more than you said.
Well if you go back up to nordende's comment you'll see that you ignored all of their questions in order to, as we've established wrongly, contradict them. Go back and fix your answer.
so that's 3/4 that you're saying to avoid because you personally have deemed their moderation policies objectively inferior (and judging by 1 and 2 you probably think the same about hexbear?)
sounds like they're just instances you politically disagree with, one of which does happen to also be massive. I'm not saying redditors should come to those 4 instances, they mostly shouldn't (grad and hexbear don't want most of them, .ml has been trying to not be "the default instance" since forever, and world is a shithole and already massive/centralizing), but your choice of list was transparently more political than it was about centralization, why not just be honest about that?
Or are you going to pull the "moderation policies are (or should be) objective and apolitical" canard?
I don't hate communists. The reasons I don't recommend those instances are: lemmy[.]ml - Censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments lemmygrad - see above; also defederated a lot. lemmy[.]world - too big, has a lot of toxic people, some moderation issues hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.
Some people don't come here to talk politics. There are some people who may just use reddit for non-political stuff, like crafts, gaming and news from their country. Most of that stuff is on lemmy.world.
We do all that too, we're just cooler. We have DIY comms, anime comms, I run the gaming discord where we mostly just chill and play Foxhole ARMA and project zomboid.
My point is that everything is political and for people that want a nice cozy space that is vigilantly purged of reactionaries and bigots it's a breath of fresh air from the reddit environment that carries over to a lot of the big "default" - as you call them - instances.
Shit half the posts on hexbear are silly jokes, weird special interest stuff, personal projects, or random bean posting. We are just very very militant and fairly unified when topics of politics come up and it has roots in irreverent commie shitposting so that will always be there.
While it does seem to house a lot of bigots, its no where near as bad as reddit. Don't get me wrong, I hate fascists and bigots, but lemmy.world housing them seems to just be a consequence of its size.
Hexbear.net defederated because of a domain problem that's since been fixed
Although I suspect the "censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments" is just as much present there as it is in lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, and the main reason for the "censorship" is racism
Also, .ml's modlog shows a clear pro-russia bias. People should oppose the U.S's imperialism, but supporting russia (even critically) isn't the answer. I feel like hexbear has a more diverse range of views compared to .ml or grad though.
Was? No, the nazis are still in charge. I said government, don't pull that shit where you make no distinction between the people and their jailers. Ukrainians? Probably mostly cool, haven't met them. Their government? Absolutely nazis, absolutely put in place by us to do nazis shit.
I had a whole thing written about Operation GLADIO and America's almost century-long history of doing exactly this all over the world, how the word "Tankie" comes from the time the Soviet Union stopped them from doing it to Hungary in 1956, but then I remembered a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's several pictures:
That's a picture of Stephan Bandera by the way, head of the OUN-B organization which participated in the Holocaust. Here he is in his in his spiffy military uniform:
Eh, times change, right? It's not as if any recent high ranking government officials have been see-
Ah. Hm.
Well, it's not like they're doing hitler youth shit, right?
God damn, what the hell is going on? Is there some kind of documented, easy-to follow trail of obvious causality that I can use to make sense of this??
Of course there is, and it's only a minute and a half long!
Okay, joking is done. Real talk, do you honestly believe the obviously bullshit narrative that Ukraine isn't a country whose people live under the Nazi boot?
I appreciate the clarification, the trap of assuming class unity within a country is one that these conversations unfortunately fall into easily.
I have to ask though, what imperialism means to you. It wasn't too long ago that most people made fun of communists for using the word, and now it's a popular word to use but I never see it defined. What's your understanding of it?
Also, why do you put nazi problem in quotes, as if to distance yourself from accepting the idea?
No one on reddit likes reddit.com. The people there are there just for the userbase. The actual software is shit, lemmy.world has been more stable than reddit at times.
I don't really get how to get into that. How do you find instances with more than 10 people on them ? Plus like you said, I have to make a new account for every instance which is super annoying
Lemmy.world is filled with censorship and genocide apologists. Itβs basically an exact clone of Redditβs culture of smug libs that look down their noses at other poor people while working tirelessly against their own best interest by supporting corrupt oligarchs that weaponize identity politics as a highly effective dog whistle.
Hey! I'll have you know I was onboarded from reddit because I can't possibly be asked to understand federation much less the preferred instance or any of the politics of this place before arriving. I saw an easy way in and I took it, because my anti-genocide tirades got me banned from reddit and so far haven't from here. Idk how to control which part of lemmy I'm in much less the one I come from. I am not, however, a "lemmy.world-er" I just live here
Now that the election is over and the shitlibs on world can pretend that Trump is the only demagogue to blame for the ongoing genocide, you might be fine.
If I were you, Iβd switch before you share your opinion somewhere that kescusay@lemmy.world or jordanlund@lemmy.world can censor or even ban you.
Iβve seen people banned and their comments removed for having the audacity to question the official braindead Reddit hivemind lib narrative (pro-DNC no matter how demonstrably corrupt they get because βhave you seen the other guys?β, anti-Single-Payer, conveniently pro-Ukraine while hypocritically anti-Palestine).
Migrating a profile right now is really just downloading your settings and subscriptions (option in settings), opening a new account on a different instance, and importing your settings and subscriptions.
I don't see the issue with recommending a generic instance, if your intend is to convert the generic user. It certainly is a better experience than saying 'ok, so choose what you like from this list of instances' and they don't even know the implications or what that means.
The overcomplication of Lemmy is an issue, and this behavior tries to avoid that.
I haven't looked at the Lemmy codebase but here's my thoughts on why they don't "just" fix this.
Unless the database is designed for easy migration from it can be a very large task to modify the database layout, as you nearly have to refactor everything.
One way to solve this is that all posts/comments/votes uses an UUID as primary key instead of auto-incrementing IDs.
Hi, so moving in AP (ActivityPub) doesn't really work like that.
Essentially, every action (like, follow, create etc) is an activity, "moving" something sends a "move" activity to every follower of an actor (group, user etc), which will make them follow the new account.
So moving a community is really just making everyone unsubscribe from the old on, and subscribe to the new one, set the old one as read only, and setup a redirect ("This community has moved to !newcomm@instance"). The old comm will stay, and it can be browsed.
Take a look at "nomadic identity" though, its a bit more similar to what you are talking about.
drkt
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •like this
FundMECFS e UprisingVoltage like this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to drkt • • •- lemmy[.]ml
- lemmygrad[.]ml
- lemmy[.]world
- he xbea r[.]net
Omega_Man
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Fitik likes this.
noodle (he/him)
in reply to Omega_Man • • •like this
irelephant [he/him]π e Fitik like this.
FundMECFS
in reply to noodle (he/him) • • •tankies => historical revisionism and genocide denial.
I donβt really care if they are authoritarian communists, I care that they deny or try to embellish massive human rights absuses and human suffering.
like this
irelephant [he/him]π e FundMECFS like this.
Cadende [they/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Cadende [they/them] • • •Not really.
Cadende [they/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •so that's 3/4 that you're saying to avoid because you personally have deemed their moderation policies objectively inferior (and judging by 1 and 2 you probably think the same about hexbear?)
sounds like they're just instances you politically disagree with, one of which does happen to also be massive. I'm not saying redditors should come to those 4 instances, they mostly shouldn't (grad and hexbear don't want most of them, .ml has been trying to not be "the default instance" since forever, and world is a shithole and already massive/centralizing), but your choice of list was transparently more political than it was about centralization, why not just be honest about that?
Or are you going to pull the "moderation policies are (or should be) objective and apolitical" canard?
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Cadende [they/them] • • •ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π doesn't like this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •The comment I was replying to said "Don't make perfect the enemy of good!", likely referring to getting users onto the fediverse from sites like reddit. I think recommending almost any instance but those ones is a good idea to newcomers.
Also, just because the title references centralisation, the biggest problem plaguing LW, doesn't mean there are other reasons to avoid it.
ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •No, I'm not trolling.
I'm annoyed about people recommending LW, but not specifically because of centralisation. Centralisation is one of the larger issues though.
It honestly feels like you are misinterpreting the post (and comments) on purpose. Are you trolling?
ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •I cannot find this persons comment. Can you link to it? Like, genuinely I can't see it.
I'm not ignoring questions on purpose.
ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ProfessorOwl_PhD [any] • • •Assuming you're talking about this comment:
hexbear.net/comment/6031087
What question didn't I answer?
Cadende [they/them]
2025-04-06 14:02:15
mayo_cider [he/him]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π doesn't like this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to mayo_cider [he/him] • • •The reasons I don't recommend those instances are:
lemmy[.]ml - Censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments
lemmygrad - see above; also defederated a lot.
lemmy[.]world - too big, has a lot of toxic people, some moderation issues
hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.
Nakoichi [they/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •This is exactly why you should tell people leaving reddit to check it out.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Nakoichi [they/them] • • •There are some people who may just use reddit for non-political stuff, like crafts, gaming and news from their country. Most of that stuff is on lemmy.world.
Nakoichi [they/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •We do all that too, we're just cooler. We have DIY comms, anime comms, I run the gaming discord where we mostly just chill and play Foxhole ARMA and project zomboid.
My point is that everything is political and for people that want a nice cozy space that is vigilantly purged of reactionaries and bigots it's a breath of fresh air from the reddit environment that carries over to a lot of the big "default" - as you call them - instances.
Shit half the posts on hexbear are silly jokes, weird special interest stuff, personal projects, or random bean posting. We are just very very militant and fairly unified when topics of politics come up and it has roots in irreverent commie shitposting so that will always be there.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Nakoichi [they/them] • • •Nakoichi [they/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Nakoichi [they/them] • • •Nakoichi [they/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Nakoichi [they/them] • • •WizardOfLoneliness [they/them, comrade/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to WizardOfLoneliness [they/them, comrade/them] • • •mayo_cider [he/him]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Hexbear.net defederated because of a domain problem that's since been fixed
Although I suspect the "censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments" is just as much present there as it is in lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, and the main reason for the "censorship" is racism
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to mayo_cider [he/him] • • •No, some instances block hex.
Also, .ml's modlog shows a clear pro-russia bias. People should oppose the U.S's imperialism, but supporting russia (even critically) isn't the answer. I feel like hexbear has a more diverse range of views compared to .ml or grad though.
WizardOfLoneliness [they/them, comrade/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Have you considered that reality supports Russia's justifications for intervening in Ukraine
irelephant [he/him]π doesn't like this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to WizardOfLoneliness [they/them, comrade/them] • • •ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π doesn't like this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Was? No, the nazis are still in charge. I said government, don't pull that shit where you make no distinction between the people and their jailers. Ukrainians? Probably mostly cool, haven't met them. Their government? Absolutely nazis, absolutely put in place by us to do nazis shit.
I had a whole thing written about Operation GLADIO and America's almost century-long history of doing exactly this all over the world, how the word "Tankie" comes from the time the Soviet Union stopped them from doing it to Hungary in 1956, but then I remembered a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's several pictures:
That's a picture of Stephan Bandera by the way, head of the OUN-B organization which participated in the Holocaust. Here he is in his in his spiffy military uniform:
Eh, times change, right? It's not as if any recent high ranking government officials have been see-
Ah. Hm.
Well, it's not like they're doing hitler youth shit, right?
God damn, what the hell is going on? Is there some kind of documented, easy-to follow trail of obvious causality that I can use to make sense of this??
Of course there is, and it's only a minute and a half long!
youtu.be/j6e7MGUmxgU
Okay, joking is done. Real talk, do you honestly believe the obviously bullshit narrative that Ukraine isn't a country whose people live under the Nazi boot?
- YouTube
youtu.beirelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •By nazi country, I meant ruled by nazis. Sorry if that was unclear.
Even if Ukraine has a "nazi problem" russia's invasion is nothing but imperialism.
ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •I appreciate the clarification, the trap of assuming class unity within a country is one that these conversations unfortunately fall into easily.
I have to ask though, what imperialism means to you. It wasn't too long ago that most people made fun of communists for using the word, and now it's a popular word to use but I never see it defined. What's your understanding of it?
Also, why do you put nazi problem in quotes, as if to distance yourself from accepting the idea?
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •Yes, that is why.
Pretty much the same as the definition google spits out:
A_Union_of_Kobolds
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to A_Union_of_Kobolds • • •Sunshine (she/her)
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Lemmy.ml/Lemmygrad.ml/Hexbear = Tankies
Lemmy.world = Wackos
Sh.itjust.works = Jerks
irelephant [he/him]π likes this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Sunshine (she/her) • • •Fitik likes this.
irelephant [he/him]π
Unknown parent • • •irelephant [he/him]π
Unknown parent • • •Sunshine (she/her)
Unknown parent • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Sunshine (she/her) • • •The issue for moving comms has been open since last year.
TabbsTheBat (they/them)
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Fitik likes this.
squirrel
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them) • • •Fitik likes this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to squirrel • • •monogram
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Fitik likes this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to monogram • • •WizardOfLoneliness [they/them, comrade/them]
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to WizardOfLoneliness [they/them, comrade/them] • • •applemao
Unknown parent • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to applemao • • •You don't need an account for every instance. For example, I am on lemm.ee, you are on lemmy.world, but I can reply to your comment.
Every instance shares the same content.
demesisx
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Makes sense.
Lemmy.world is filled with censorship and genocide apologists. Itβs basically an exact clone of Redditβs culture of smug libs that look down their noses at other poor people while working tirelessly against their own best interest by supporting corrupt oligarchs that weaponize identity politics as a highly effective dog whistle.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to demesisx • • •thanks AV
in reply to demesisx • • •demesisx
in reply to thanks AV • • •Welcome!
Now that the election is over and the shitlibs on world can pretend that Trump is the only demagogue to blame for the ongoing genocide, you might be fine.
If I were you, Iβd switch before you share your opinion somewhere that kescusay@lemmy.world or jordanlund@lemmy.world can censor or even ban you.
Iβve seen people banned and their comments removed for having the audacity to question the official braindead Reddit hivemind lib narrative (pro-DNC no matter how demonstrably corrupt they get because βhave you seen the other guys?β, anti-Single-Payer, conveniently pro-Ukraine while hypocritically anti-Palestine).
Itβs pretty easy to switch nowadays.
thanks AV
in reply to demesisx • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to thanks AV • • •Sheldan
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •I don't see the issue with recommending a generic instance, if your intend is to convert the generic user. It certainly is a better experience than saying 'ok, so choose what you like from this list of instances' and they don't even know the implications or what that means.
The overcomplication of Lemmy is an issue, and this behavior tries to avoid that.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to Sheldan • • •irelephant [he/him]π
Unknown parent • • •BeigeAgenda
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •I haven't looked at the Lemmy codebase but here's my thoughts on why they don't "just" fix this.
Unless the database is designed for easy migration from it can be a very large task to modify the database layout, as you nearly have to refactor everything.
One way to solve this is that all posts/comments/votes uses an UUID as primary key instead of auto-incrementing IDs.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to BeigeAgenda • • •Hi, so moving in AP (ActivityPub) doesn't really work like that.
Essentially, every action (like, follow, create etc) is an
activity, "moving" something sends a "move" activity to every follower of an actor (group, user etc), which will make them follow the new account.So moving a community is really just making everyone unsubscribe from the old on, and subscribe to the new one, set the old one as read only, and setup a redirect ("This community has moved to !newcomm@instance"). The old comm will stay, and it can be browsed.
Take a look at "nomadic identity" though, its a bit more similar to what you are talking about.
JayGray91
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •I'm just going to post this old post again.
or for the lazy
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to JayGray91 • • •irelephant [he/him]π
Unknown parent • • •applemao
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •burgerpocalyse
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to burgerpocalyse • • •Fitik likes this.
LunarEwok
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •First post on Lemmy! and oh my wordβ¦ never seen such an eclectic mix of flavours of people, positions and politics in a long time.
This decentralised thing could actually be a good thing: pulls people away from bubbles and echo chambers!
Just remember to play nice π
like this
irelephant [he/him]π e Fitik like this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to LunarEwok • • •Fitik likes this.
BradleyUffner
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •Fitik likes this.
irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to BradleyUffner • • •Fitik likes this.
SoftestSapphic
in reply to irelephant [he/him]π • • •irelephant [he/him]π
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •