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mastodon - Collegamento all'originale

Hey @simplex is this really your founder? 👀
xcancel.com/epoberezkin

#SimpleX #InfoSec


Evgeny (@epoberezkin)

@SimpleXChat (http://simplex.chat) founder - the 1st chat network without user IDs. Created Ajv #JSON validator used by millions of JS apps.
Nitter
#infosec #SimpleX @SimpleX Chat
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Dźwiedziu
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Dźwiedziu
• •

FOR FUCKS SAKE! He retweets Liz Truss. The PORK MARKETS, ECONOMY DESTROYING, shortest-term British PM, Liz Truss.

I will use Poberezkin as a poster child that STEM without humanist classes is bad for you.

@simplex

@SimpleX Chat
Unknown parent

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@triskelion yeah I am looking at @cwtch with a lot of hope.

I've been using @briar for a while, but it's really difficult to get people onto it.

@powersource @signalapp

@Briar Project @Powersource @Signal @Cwtch
Unknown parent

Andrew
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Andrew
• •
@molytov why do these people keep thinking they’ll be welcome here lmao
@Molytov
Unknown parent

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •
@powersource @triskelion yeah, cwtch is still very much a work in progress
@Powersource
in reply to Powersource

Powersource
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Powersource
• •
@triskelion nvm first step of opening cwtch is to fill in two different usernames (with explanation text that cuts off) and a password for some reason. I'm not gonna figure that all out and try to remember it 🥲
Unknown parent

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@mc it is a demo and a proof of concept. Not ready for any kind of serious use.

@powersource @triskelion

@Powersource @MC
in reply to Powersource

MC
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
MC
• •

@powersource @triskelion Has anyone tried Veilid Chat yet?

veilid.com/chat/


VeilidChat

VeilidChat is a proof of concept of the Veilid protocol and framework.
Veilid
@Powersource
Unknown parent

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@mc I have not tried either, but I looked into Veilid a bit, and I kinda like the approach.

@powersource @triskelion

@Powersource @MC
Unknown parent

SimpleX Chat
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
SimpleX Chat
• •
@molytov @cinebox make love not war. Why so much hate?
@Molytov @Andrew
Unknown parent

SimpleX Chat
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
SimpleX Chat
• •

@molytov we retweet what we agree with, without dividing people to those who we like or not. Post stuff on X that we agree with, and we would retweet you too.

Regardless of politics and our views on society we all have a common enemy with the goal to take away our rights and liberties. The hate and divide you are spreading shows that you fell prey to this enemy, sadly.

Stay safe. Of all people you should not spread hate.

@Molytov
in reply to SimpleX Chat

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

in that case:

trans rights are human rights :transgender:

Is that something you agree with and would boost here, and retweet on Xitter?

@molytov

@Molytov
in reply to SimpleX Chat

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

I asked you a yes/no question at the beginning of this thread. I will repeat it:

Is this your founder?
xcancel.com/epoberezkin

@molytov @cinebox

@Molytov @Andrew
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
I'm conflicted here, I like Simplex Chat as a software and what it provides - a unique hybrid approach that takes good elements from both peer to peer and server client models to come up with a usable private messaging system. But I don't want to be part of a community that promotes these politics. I think Simplex Chat as a project should come up with its own political values what standards its community members can expect.
in reply to Pirate Praveen

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@praveen the way I think about that is that there are other tools, like @cwtch, that are in a similar space and provide similar functionality – or are working towards it.

Instead of supporting SimpleX, whose founder seems to be a far-right libertarian conspiracy wingnut, I choose to spend my attention and time on tools that do not come with that kind of baggage.

Because we both know SimpleX will never get any functionality that would in any way impede the far-right libertarian wingnuts.

@Pirate Praveen @Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch I think the thought of identifying and stopping users we don't like is a slippery slope. The same thing could be used by governments to stop dissidents. So I think as a technology unable to distinguish and stop users of any political belief or philosophy is important for privacy of people who need it the most. It'd be a shame if we have to give on such a great technology because of the politics of its founder. I think a fork or adopting the protocol in other products is better.
@Cwtch
in reply to Pirate Praveen

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@praveen nobody said anything about identifying them. Stopping them – that depends on the specifics of what's going on.

If a tool is algorithmically promoting content, for example, and happens to reliably promote Nazi content, that's a problem that needs to be solved – or a tool that needs to be ditched.

All technology is political. One might think they're building a "truly neutral" tool, but no such tool exists. Choices made by it will define how it fits into the broader struggle.

@cwtch

@Pirate Praveen @Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@praveen so instead of wasting time on trying to save "such great technology", I choose to promote others building similar tools that happen to not be conspiracy wingnuts and transphobes.

This way not only we get the amazing technology, but we also promote people who can build it in ethical, thoughtful, considerate way.

"Great technology" built by shitty people is sucking the air out of the room. I will not be helping with that.

@cwtch

@Pirate Praveen @Cwtch

wakest ⁂ reshared this.

in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch I will also evaluate other options, but I don't think giving up on Simplex Chat protocol is not the only options we have as Simplex Chat is still Free Software. All other peer to peer options I have evaluated so far move far away from traditional server client model and it will take time to mature. But I feel the balance Simplex Chat strikes makes it possible to use it today without all the drawbacks of both traditional server client and peer to peer options.
@Cwtch
in reply to Pirate Praveen

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@praveen

> I would understand that concern for something like mastodon where algorithm pushing ideas are important factor. But how is that relevant for something like Simplex Chat?

Here:
hachyderm.io/@dalias/114630690…

@cwtch

@Pirate Praveen @Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch thanks for sharing that. I agree that is bad. But being Free Software, we don't have to accept that. This is not the first time such a thing happened to Free Software. Malicious or privacy invasive features do get into Free Software sometimes. Some examples are Ubuntu once shared search data with Amazon by default. Mozilla made some shitty ToS changes etc. We responded by removing such features in derivatives / forks etc.
@Cwtch
in reply to Pirate Praveen

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@praveen and I agree code can be forked and worked on independently of whoever created it initially.

However, I don't see anyone wanting to do that. But I do see @cwtch creating a similar tool in an ethical matter. So I am going to support them instead.

@Pirate Praveen @Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch first step in creating the fork is calling out what is bad and I hope someone will create a fork eventually when more people know about the problem. I hope to include Simplex Protocol into @prav xmpp app. Though it will depend on how Prav community will respond to the proposal. We also have to evaluate this compared with all other feautures we want to implement in Prav. We want a way to have less metadata collected but don't want to give up on onboarding and contact discovery.
@The Prāv Cooperative @Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch does cwtch needs both / all parties online at the same time to exchange messages? Briar used to be like that (I think they were planning to instrouce an inbox but not sure if it is implemented already). Being able to send messages even if one person is offline is a crucial feature.
@Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch I would understand that concern for something like mastodon where algorithm pushing ideas are important factor. But how is that relevant for something like Simplex Chat? Where the platform or admins have no such role. Free Software is not about binary take it or leave it. Developers don't have that kind of influence on Free Software like proprietary software. Like I mentioned earlier forking or reimplmenting the protocol by good people are still options.
@Cwtch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@cwtch can you show any proof that Simplex Chat is algorithmically promoting such ideas? What they promote on their social media is different (I don't disagree that is bad, but these two are separate issues and it is best we analyze different issues separately than trying to conflate many issues together).
@Cwtch
in reply to Pirate Praveen

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

@praveen you'd have to ask the author of that toot; they are usually solid in my experience, and I trust what they have to say.

I just finished a pretty deep technical investigation into Telegram's protocol, and I simply do not have the spoons to do a deep-dive into SimpleX, sorry. Take it or leave it.

@cwtch

@Pirate Praveen @Cwtch
in reply to SimpleX Chat

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@molytov I think it is important for you to have a code of conduct and explicitly state your philosophy on who is welcome or not in the community.
@Molytov
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •

It's been a few days, and while @simplex found the time and inclination to respond in the thread by accusing those who documented sus stuff their Xitter account RT'd of "hate" …

…somehow they never got around to either confirming or denying that this is their founder:
xcancel.com/epoberezkin

Are his views (climate denial, anti-immigration, anti-vaxx, looking at just a few first tweets) a bit too much?.. :blobcatcofesip:

Screenshot of a toot from SimpleX official masto account. Text: @molytov @cinebox @rysiek make love not war. Why so much hate?
Screenshot of another of their toots in this thread. Text: @molytov @rysiek we retweet what we agree with, without dividing people to those who we like or not. Post stuff on X that we agree with, and we would retweet you too. Regardless of politics and our views on society we all have a common enemy with the goal to take away our rights and liberties. The hate and divide you are spreading shows that you fell prey to this enemy, sadly. Stay safe. Of all people you should not spread hate.
@SimpleX Chat
Questa voce è stata modificata (6 mesi fa)

Oblomov reshared this.

in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

rail 🦊
gotosocial - Collegamento all'originale
rail 🦊
• •
he's also a blatant transphobe btw
in reply to rail 🦊

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
• •
@rail oh yeah, did get that vibe but didn't notice anything explicitly showing that. No surprises.
@rail 🦊
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

rail 🦊
gotosocial - Collegamento all'originale
rail 🦊
• •
xcancel.com/epoberezkin/status…

Evgeny (@epoberezkin)

It is not just ideology. It is promotion of the chemical castration and mutilation to the children – the UK government should prohibit these horrific experiments. cc @reformparty_uk @RupertLowe10 please raise this issue in the parliament.
Nitter
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

[6837 (over)]flo
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
[6837 (over)]flo
• •

I use simplex because it has good features.
Reading what its alleged founder writes on X gives me the shivers.
He seems to support the fascist MAGA and reposts the weirdest ideas about "the left"

Oh boy.

in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Evgeny
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Evgeny
• •

Hey! I am here and happy to debate my personal views, that are not the same as views of SimpleX org, which must be ok in a civilized world.

My views on climate, vaccination, human biology, immigration, etc. are exceptionally science-based, and are not just guesses - they are the result of 100s of hours of research.

I don't suffer from packaged thinking, as you seem to suggest, and nor should you.

And I am always open to change my mind in the face of evidence - are you?

in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

Evgeny
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Evgeny
• •

Yes, I am the founder. Happy to engage to discuss any of my views that you disagree with.

My views are based on science and 100s of hours of my own research, not some packaged talking points of other people.

And this is necessary for any good engineer to think critically when formulating opinions - you want get good engineering from people who choose politics over facts and science.

Always happy to change my mind.

Unknown parent

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@molytov I'm more concerned about the software project rather than the network. The project is still managed by people and driven by their individual philosophies. So unless there is an explicit code of conduct (debian.org/intro/diversity)/ diversity statement like (debian.org/intro/diversity), many people will not feel welcome to participate in Simplex Chat project (especially given the vocal philosophy of its founder driving potential contributors away).

Diversity Statement

www.debian.org
@Molytov
in reply to Pirate Praveen

SimpleX Chat
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
SimpleX Chat
• •

@praveen @molytov
You are welcome to join users groups, but SImpleX network as a whole is not a community.

It is a technology that allows you can create your own communities – you don't need anybody's permission to use it.

@Pirate Praveen @Molytov
in reply to Pirate Praveen

SimpleX Chat
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
SimpleX Chat
• •
@praveen @molytov we accept contributions based on whether it benefits the majority of the end users, and on their quality - there is no universal right to contribute. We never look into who makes these contributions, and we obviously would not discriminate against people making contributions. So it is not a question of diversity. And we treat all contributors with equal respect, and remove any comments that are not respectful. So "code of conduct" is just a common sense that we follow.
@Pirate Praveen @Molytov
Unknown parent

SimpleX Chat
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
SimpleX Chat
• •
@praveen @molytov The presense of code of conduct is a rather recent tradition, and a vast majority of open source code was created prior to the invention of this idea. So most likely having no impact on contributors or contributions, and at worst. Everybody does it because everybody does it, but whether it solves any real problem is unproven and unclear.
@Pirate Praveen @Molytov
in reply to SimpleX Chat

Pirate Praveen
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
Pirate Praveen
• •
@molytov social standards and expectations evolve with time. Many of the rights we take for granted today were not present earlier. Also people with diverse background are in positions of power and influence in Free Software community now, so we don't accept many things considered "normal" / "norm" anymore.
@Molytov
in reply to SimpleX Chat

SimpleX Chat
mastodon - Collegamento all'originale
SimpleX Chat
• •
@praveen @molytov At the same time we are strongly against any positive discrimination or preferential treatment to any contributors - it would still be a discrimination. We will publish some document about that, but we find it somewhat academic, and in a way - "cargo-cultish". There is no proof that the presence or absence of code of conduct document affects contributions in any way, and that anybody would refuse to make a contribution solely because this document is absent.
@Pirate Praveen @Molytov
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