I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
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Stefan Bohacek
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Yep, said pretty much the same thing the other day.
To me, the one key feature we need is the ability to disable replies, and maybe also control who can reply, those are top 1 and 10 requests on Mastodon's GitHub, and both have been open for several years.
The team's response: it's too hard. Which, fair enough. But putting any effort into UX/UI polishing, as needed as that is, will be wasted as so many people already left because of the constant harassment and gatekeeping.
I also pointed out that by the time Bluesky's VC money runs out, there might already be enough independent communities running the full ATProto stack, so people will just be able to migrate without needing to ever look at the fediverse again.
Stefan Bohacek
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •Stefan Bohacek
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Yeah, if I had the time and resources, I'd set up a server with GoToSocial and a Phanpy frontend, gave it a cool modern name, and try to lure in normies, without advertising the whole federation thing too much, just as an added bonus.
Alas, I really don't want to deal with content moderation.
wakest ⁂
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •dansup
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to dansup • • •dansup
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •@stefan So?
If the Pixelfed/Loops user wants to disable comments, and other software doesn't respect that, why would the Pixel/Loops user care about ghost threads/replies?
We're focused on providing better/safer experiences for our users, and if other platforms don't abide by that, okay, but I'm not sure it's as pressing of an issue as you think it is.
We will get this fixed with interactionPolicy, people love our platforms because we have supported this for years.
Stefan Bohacek
in reply to dansup • • •@dansup Really nice to see someone taking safety features seriously!
Do hidden comments federate? That is honestly a great feature to have, I only thought of this recently during a conversation around reply controls, as a potential way to deal with the delay caused by the roundtrips needed to verify if a reply can be posted.
(Presumably this works differently on Loops, definitely curious to learn more.)
@liaizon
dansup
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •We don't yet federate the hidden state, but soon will.
If you have a Loops.video account, you can see this in action here (press Load more until you see the Show hidden comments button): loops.video/v/5YvxWOxcRa
(Hidden comments require auth, but I'm going to remove that limitation in the next update)
Stefan Bohacek
in reply to dansup • • •@dansup Very cool!
@liaizon
ikuturso 🇪🇺
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •@stefan things that may be in the way of that are:
1. fully independent communities don't seem to come cheap with ATproto
2. there's almost no effort to get people to anything else besides the corporate servers so the alternate infrastructure is unlikely to be at a scale that would support any significant migrations at that point
ikuturso 🇪🇺
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •reshared this
A New Social e Oblomov reshared this.
𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •@admin @anewsocial
Thank you for pointing me to #warfn.
I'm looking for a programmable solution. My idea is, to create some kind of LinkedIn-alternative, where i can publish my resume, and post inquiries for new open jobs. I want it to work with both the fediverse, and at-proto. Even though I prefer the fediverse, I want to be visible in both.
Are you aware of any (preferred) Python-library, or framework, that would solve that? Or do I have to fiddle with multiple incompatible ones?
wakest ⁂
in reply to 𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽 • • •𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓯 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓽
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •@admin @anewsocial
Thank you very much. Since I like Python more than TypeScript, Bridgy is probably the best starting point.
melanie🦂🌀
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to melanie🦂🌀 • • •flaeky pancako
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Leonardo reshared this.
wakest ⁂
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Lucid00
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Doug Webb
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •this story feels a lot like the solid project solidproject.org/
Big splash at the beginning, some nerds get involved... but it's been years now, and when I tried to actually use one of the apps using it, UX was atrocious and I had to join a matrix room to get it working. Now I know I'm not the l33test hacker, but come on!
Solid: Your data, your choice - Solid Project
Solid ProjectRosano
in reply to Doug Webb • • •ikuturso 🇪🇺
in reply to Rosano • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to ikuturso 🇪🇺 • • •ikuturso 🇪🇺
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •if you're just referring to there finally being at least one example of all the pieces of the puzzle being run third-party (or close to that) etc. like @rosano seems to be suggesting I think these are still baby steps especially if we are talking about regular people actively using and understanding in significant numbers.
@douginamug
wakest ⁂
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •pancakes🔜Bed
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •sɹɐʎA xɘlA 💻➡🗑
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Devine Lu Linvega
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •"You must be what people call an extremist"
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Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Devine Lu Linvega • • •Devine Lu Linvega
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •@nicobao My making fun of your use of extreme is merely pointing out something I find a bit.. intense.
From where I'm standing, the agency that is afforded to instances in comparison to AT's centralized DID model, is not an extreme position but the barest of minimum, a baseline for communication networks.
Surely the sentiment that you'd rather "run away" from a place that is explicitly going the other way than crypto investment wasn't going to be perceived as a leveled opinion..?
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wakest ⁂ e Oblomov reshared this.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Devine Lu Linvega • • •@neauoire that's a fair point and I do respect the Palestine argument. I didn't even know this information until OP pointed it out. I fully respect this take and I do not consider this extremist, and even if I did well we can discuss it normally.
My problem is my initial tweet was reacting to the anarchist/anti capitalist/anti VC ethos which is way more objectively, an extremist PoV (which is fine. Just not my cup of tea).
It's a misunderstanding.
Devine Lu Linvega
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •RooneyMcNibNug
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Arnold Knijn reshared this.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂ reshared this.
undead
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •@nicobao
Just because something isn't an insult for you, doesn't make the application of it by you any less of an attempt at an insult.
And because a number of people on Fedi may disagree with you, doesn't make it a mob mentality. It means that people have been subjected to those rhetorical tools in the past, generally in bad faith as a form of harm, and it is likely you are pissing off even more people because of your particular (and somewhat tone deaf) perspective.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to undead • • •@undead the thing is I didn't ask to come here. OP took a screenshot, posted it here and then I received all these notifications misinterpreting my tweet and accusing me of things I don't even mean.
I genuinely do not like the "mob" mentality of ANY community. It's human nature but it's most of all a byproduct of "twitter-like" social apps
I get your point though I should have better phrased that initial tweet. I would have avoided unwillingly offending people and creating this drama.
wakest ⁂
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Where I disagree is that I think it's hard but *possible* to involve for-profit incentives in a way that doesn't prevent the network from flourishing.
Matt Hall
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •... What uh... What exactly constitutes extreme ideology in the quoted text?
Acknowledging the existence of Palestinians? Is that all it takes now?
"Anarchist anti-capitalist free culture side of networks" isn't a political ideology... It's protocls like IRC. Usenet.
So... I can only assume we have a problem with other human beings _existing_.
Is... Is my response the type of extreme political ideology you'd like to avoid on the fediverse? 🤨
@nicobao
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Matt Hall • • •Dear Matt, you're misunderstanding my initial tweet. I was not referring to Palestinians. Read the comments in this thread to understand the context.
Matt Hall
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •@nicobao
Nicolas,
I'm looking and _maybe_ I've missed it. If so, I genuinely apologize, but it _appears_ that you take issue with the use of the words 'anarchist' and 'anti-capitalist'.
I'm just _strongly_ suggesting that you may have misunderstood the original toot that you responded to.
I'm 98% confident the original poster wasn't making a political statement but more a reference to the organic nature of federated networks.
If your issue was with something else... It's unclear.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Matt Hall • • •Matt Hall
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •@nicobao
... I don't know how to respond to this. I'm genuinely agog.
You're literally posting from a FOSS-todon.org account and you're talking about monetization.
I think part of the reason you may be catching so much flak right now is that it _seems_ like you're expecting an audience for a technical discussion and what you've found is a social discussion.
These things _are not_ equal.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Matt Hall • • •@401matthall my friend you have a problem with the definition of open source and free software. It has NEVER meant anything regarding monetization AT ALL. This is a complete misunderstanding. Free software != Free as in free beer. It's neutral to monetization. How do you think Nextcloud makes money if not by monetizing their FOSS?
I wrote this a long time ago. Good refresher, still relevant: github.com/baozi-technology/ba…
baozi-web/content/09-11-2019/index.md at master · baozi-technology/baozi-web
GitHubMatt Hall
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •@nicobao
We're simply going to disagree on this. I'm not bothered by any dissonance you find in my perspective.
If the only thing free in your project is the client and not the tools to _build_ a network you're not building free software.
I'm trying to tell you every way possible that I'm 98% confident your fixation on monetization is what's creating the conflict.
You can tell me I'm _wrong_ all you like. It doesn't eliminate that position as a source of conflict.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Matt Hall • • •@401matthall I'm very happy to agree to disagree on the opinions.
Though about what I said on the definition of what Free Software actually means, it's not an opinion but a fact.
But I respect that you think software should only be public good and receive exclusively donations of good will, if I understand well?
We can agree to disagree respectfully!
Matt Hall
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •@nicobao
I don't think that's the _only_ space in which software should exist. I think it's the appropriate space for open-source software.
I make a living selling my services as a developer. I'm not opposed to that.
Everything has _nuance_. No rule is applicable in _every_ situation. I just think that in the matter of social networks we're seeing a significant backlash towards corporate social media. I'm not surprised to see that frustration _shared_ here on a non-corporate platform.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to Matt Hall • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to Nicolas Gimenez • • •Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •I think it's pretty objective to say there is a problem between funding public goods versus venture capital where most of the money is. It's well studied and I've read a bit about it already. I'm all for alternative forms of financing. That's why I'm interested in the crypto space as well. I'm happy to learn about new ways to co-finance public goods sustainably.
Nicolas Gimenez
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Bici
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to Bici • • •ikuturso 🇪🇺
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •@Bike seems like the "mainstream" is still very much TBD. In the big picture it has almost no adoption and is losing active users by the day and all the supposed other applications for ATproto are virtually unused currently. Meanwhile the startup is also probably going to have to find more funding soon.
Of course it's possible that all the excitement leads to newly found success but it doesn't seem like there's anything suggesting that is an inevitability.
Julien Colomb
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Na... bluesky will eventually entshittified at some point and mastodon will still be there.
It is not something we have to win, I am pretty happy that my mastodon feed is nazi-free, I am pretty sure it would be different there (but it will NOT go and check).
I got discussions here I never had on twitter (even when twitter was good).
The philosophy is different, and if it means it cannot win the game, then I will be happy losing.
céline didone
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •I think that development is good for both. In my mind the fediverse will never be a replacement for mainstream social media, but a strong counter-culture presence. On the other hand, I feel atmosphere does have aspirations to replace social media (along with a lot of its harms).
If the outcome is Fedi as space B + Atmosphere as mainstream social media instead of Fedi as space B + Twitter/Instagram/etc as mainstream media, I think we've had a win.
wakest ⁂
in reply to céline didone • • •Stefan Bohacek
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •@ruben I think fediverse could still become mainstream, but clearly not through Mastodon.
I had pretty high hopes when Tumblr originally announced integrating ActivityPub, of course that's not happening anymore.
Less so with Meta's Threads, given the company's history.
Flipboard and Ghost are still putting in the effort, which is great, but those are not platforms used by regular social media users.
We really just need a new fediverse platform that's user-friendly. Seems like that's nearly impossible without VC money though, so I don't know.
céline didone
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •@stefan@stefanbohacek.online @liaizon Yeah, I'm definitely thinking more from the microblogging point-of-view, which I use more. I can see pixelfed, something like piefed, or a brand-new type of application eventually going there.
I think it could be mainstream, but I don't feel strongly about whether it should.
The culture/s fostered in the fediverse seem to me at-odds with current mainstream social media culture: connection vs consumption, control vs convenience, small and close-knit vs firehose, etc. I think a culture shift more than a technical/ux one would determine this.
I would still like to see all those technical and user-friendliness improvements come to fedi though.
Stefan Bohacek
in reply to céline didone • • •@ruben All very good points!
And honestly, I also care less about fediverse being mainstream than about growing the diversity here.
But also, I really do want us to move beyond corporations being the middlemen of our social connections. Honestly, if ATProto takes off, Bluesky eventually folds, and the future is independent Atmosphere communities, that's really not so bad.
I care a lot less about the tech stack than who controls it.
(Okay, I will never get used to the ATProto-style usernames, for that reason alone, I hope the fediverse "wins".)
Lucid00
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •@stefan @ruben The Tumblr Fediverse thing is still happening it's just on hold as they're trying to migrate the backend to WordPress first.
Once it switches to WordPress they plan to use their official ActivityPub plugin to power the Fediverse support.
Stefan Bohacek
in reply to Lucid00 • • •@lucid00
Right, I guess it's been indefinitely paused. I suppose there's still hope!
@liaizon @ruben
refraction
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to refraction • • •refraction
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •refraction
in reply to refraction • • •after further consideration I don't think I currently care enough about this topic to engage with it at the necessary depth to have a meaningful conversation. not a super techy person anymore.
wakest ⁂
in reply to refraction • • •Jonathan Frederickson
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to Jonathan Frederickson • • •Nemo_bis 🌈
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •What do they have to show for it though? From the activity charts I see a pretty much constant decline since the peak in January 2025 for obvious USA-centric reasons. The overall trend is the same as on the fediverse, just shifted by about 26 months.
#FediMeta
⁂ L. Rhodes
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
@reiver ⊼ (Charles)
in reply to ⁂ L. Rhodes • • •@lrhodes
I've been to some of the Bluesky / ATmosphere conferences.
You are correct that there are former AP people over there (at AT) now.
I talked to a number of them. This (at the following URL) is a common reason I heard for why they switched from AP to AT:
mastodon.social/@reiver/114208…
(I am quoting / paraphrasing someone who switched AP to AT. But, I heard others say similar, too.)
...
@reiver ⊼ (Charles)
2025-03-22 21:55:24
⁂ L. Rhodes
in reply to @reiver ⊼ (Charles) • • •reshared this
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TechpriestBaunach
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •ex_06
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •my 2 cents:
- on atproto development is easier just because sucking from the usual VC money: everyone is on a basically unlimited pds for now, you code whatever you want and then people can use it and they save the stuff on bluesky pds; basically it's almost like making bots on telegram more than really using decentralization
- if people had to start choosing a PDS, they would have to start guessing which one they can pay, which one is local to their town, which one will limit them and which one will just have a subscription
- bluesky is just methadone for twitter americans
- anyone can make apps because they don't care about standards so you get no interoperability between them
As per now i'd say that bluesky is a flash in the pan. I envy the architecture that allows them to have portable identity and feeds, but 1/2
ex_06
in reply to ex_06 • • •it's cringe to have to have to double toot for half of a single sentence but here we are lol
but it's nothing that we cannot replicate on the fedi.
I'll add something just to make this second toot worth lol:
What i actually think fedi is missing out is proselitism to political actors. I'm fine not having the social media aspects on this social network but it's not fine not having the possibility to have local news actually worth to know, because that's, theoritecally, the strenght of the federated model 2/2
Laurens Hof
in reply to wakest ⁂ • • •Laurens Hof
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •wakest ⁂
in reply to Laurens Hof • • •