@k3ym0 I mean yeah, but I'll put it this way: Proton sells its service on how unbelievably private it is and how they'd never give away your identity. When they turn around and do it, it stings far more than another company who never made those promises doing the same. Kinda like Target and DEI: it was a complete 180 from the way they'd sold their brand.
what got him was paying for his “anonymous” account with his Platinum Visa like a normie buying socks on Amazon.
Proton handed over the payment identifier, Swiss authorities passed it to the FBI, and suddenly your anonymity has a name on it.
if you’re not paying with Monero or cash, you don’t have an anonymous email. you have encrypted email with a billing address. those are very different things.
when officials come after you and your a business your going to comply. From what I heard it wasn’t email data or their inbox it was credit card information.
Most people are with services like proton to ensure their data isn’t for sale to just anyone.
But hey if you love Google knowing everything about you or Ads Galore on Yahoo , you do you !
This headline is incredibly biased. Did Proton help the FBI? Or did they hand over data to the Swiss government that the Swiss government ordered them to, and then the Swiss helped the FBI unmask an anonymous protester?
I keep seeing this post pop up in my feed with permutations of "WHY PROTON DO THIS!?" -- Because they were legally ordered to.
We're doing a disservice to ourselves for not recognizing the bounds of the privacy that Proton, or Tuta, or any other "private" email service provides, and looking at this moment as a failure by the provider - when really it's the failure of a user to recognize the technical & legal bounds of of their comms services to keep them anonymous.
The lesson here, i think, is about opsec, and knowing the bounds of the tools we're employing for whatever our goals are.
@r3dr3clus3 If you don't have the data, you can be ordered to give it up by whomever, and you can't. Proton mail claims privacy, but it in fact saves enough data to identify a single individual.
The headline is not biased. Proton claims things they actually can't uphold. This is not the fault of the customer. Stop blaming the victim.
displeased as I am about this event, I will contend that you aren't an anonymous anything if you use your US credit card to pay for a service directly. all the banks have anti-"terrorist" KYC going on and if the credit card is associated to a US bank, there it is.
We want to first clarify that Proton did not provide any information to the FBI, the information was obtained from the Swiss justice department via MLAT. Proton only provides the limited information that we have when issued with a legally binding order from Swiss authorities, which can only happen after all Swiss legal checks are passed. This is an important distinction because Proton operates exclusively under Swiss law
I don't use Proton products at all (not for any idealist reasons), but I don't really think this can be much of a condemnation of the company. I don't know what else you can expect them to do in this case.
edit: That said, the real takeaway is that if you want to remain anonymous to a service that can be compelled to hand over data about you (read: more or less any service you might want to use), you should not pay with a credit card linked to your actual name, you should not access it from your home IP address, and you should not use it in any way that links it to your real self.
Proton is security focused, but even they are bound by the laws of the country they operate in. Use TOR, use E2EE, pay with cryptocurrency, maintain hermetic separation between your anonymous and public selves, etc.
they also did that to a climate fan. I've long said like Telegram is not so private as people think - use systems like cyberfear (and their related email system).
I never liked protonmail, they push you to use their centralized service, it is better to use Delta Chat for encrypted email and you can encrypt with any server or even host your own, no need to use a server in the hands of a specific company, also migrating from one server to another without losing your chats and contacts
There is no anonymity on the nets. Even for very versed in nuances of surveilance hackers. 25 years ago we could use mixmasters and other aonymization techniques. And all privacy seeking users could have been deanonymized by a simple cepstral analysis of text produced. Some cypherpunks who knew tried to counter this using with their wanna-be-anon persona unusual capitalization, peculiar typos, and were sprinkling their posts with mannerisms and other distractive goodies perl allowed. It was not much helpful, ok, it usually could give a day or two of leg, because sample posts needed to be manually marked for topical analysis, but it was not possible to hide from determined adversary. No LLMs, just a few tools built for linguists.
Today so many netfarers want 'absolute anonymity' yet demand from us techies that it all must support stickers and must run on Android/iOS device that is costantly beaming not only their whreabouts, but also their food, flowers, body parts. And this fancy new furniture.
i've had Proton for over a year now and like them. Anyone who is disappointed about this shouldn't be surprised. They have to obey Swiss law after all.
If you want a privacy-focused email provider, there aren't a lot of choices and Proton is still one of the best.
I've been telling people for literal years that Proton is just a big tech provider, they have deactivated accounts and removed users simply for doing things they don't like, most recently they deactivated the account of some Phrack security researchers for annoying Proton by using the email for security disclosures
Also people should read their transparency logs, they regularly give out user data before valid court orders are even approved lol
A lot of people talking about dumping Proton right now are misunderstanding what actually happened.
Feds were able to coerce the Swiss government to coerce Proton to hand over whatever data they had on an anonymous Stop Cop City email address, that was being investigated for terrorism.
That metadata included credit card details information for the account, which is very difficult to anonymize.
Proton offers cash payments to work around this obvious security flaw.
If you must pay for a Proton account for a radical project, pay with cash (you can mail it) or washed crypto (Monero -> Bitcoin).
All credit card payments are traceable, even to a privacy-focused company.
Your security model should not rely on a business to fight the state on your behalf.
Your email or VPN provider is not going to risk prison time for your $5/mo. It's just not going to happen, at least for anything commercial. Tuta and every other email privacy-focused email company will comply with court orders.
Trying to find the perfect email provider is a fool's errand. It doesn't exist.
You can however anonymize your useage of privacy friendly services like Proton, Tuta, or Mailbox by not entering your credit card number, phone number, name, personal email, or IP to that account.
Campbell Jones
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •Oblomov reshared this.
k3ym𖺀
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •Campbell Jones
in reply to k3ym𖺀 • • •Oblomov reshared this.
k3ym𖺀
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •what got him was paying for his “anonymous” account with his Platinum Visa like a normie buying socks on Amazon.
Proton handed over the payment identifier, Swiss authorities passed it to the FBI, and suddenly your anonymity has a name on it.
if you’re not paying with Monero or cash, you don’t have an anonymous email. you have encrypted email with a billing address. those are very different things.
reshared this
Oblomov reshared this.
Carl_
in reply to k3ym𖺀 • • •@k3ym0 @serebit
This really should be front and centre of the discussion. They complied with a valid Swiss court order, as stated on their ToS.
The account holders opsec is the issue if they required full anonymity (possible? Another discussion).
This whole thing is the same as the statement "Your VPN provider won't go to jail for your $5".
If they were served with an administrative warrant from an out of jurisdiction LEA and complied, then WAY more to be upset over.
WakinUniverseJo
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •What's your alternative ?
Asking for a friend...
@skinnylatte
Campbell Jones
in reply to WakinUniverseJo • • •Oblomov reshared this.
WakinUniverseJo
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •kΔ
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •Campbell Jones
in reply to kΔ • • •Ox1de
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •scully
in reply to Campbell Jones • • •Oblomov reshared this.
Carlos SolĂs
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •Jimmothy Baggins
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •when officials come after you and your a business your going to comply. From what I heard it wasn’t email data or their inbox it was credit card information.
Most people are with services like proton to ensure their data isn’t for sale to just anyone.
But hey if you love Google knowing everything about you or Ads Galore on Yahoo , you do you !
reshared this
Oblomov reshared this.
🍊𝕎𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕣 𝕆𝕣𝕔𝕙𝕒𝕣𝕕 ❄️
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •Red
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •Sensitive content
This headline is incredibly biased. Did Proton help the FBI? Or did they hand over data to the Swiss government that the Swiss government ordered them to, and then the Swiss helped the FBI unmask an anonymous protester?
I keep seeing this post pop up in my feed with permutations of "WHY PROTON DO THIS!?" -- Because they were legally ordered to.
We're doing a disservice to ourselves for not recognizing the bounds of the privacy that Proton, or Tuta, or any other "private" email service provides, and looking at this moment as a failure by the provider - when really it's the failure of a user to recognize the technical & legal bounds of of their comms services to keep them anonymous.
The lesson here, i think, is about opsec, and knowing the bounds of the tools we're employing for whatever our goals are.
reshared this
Oblomov reshared this.
warning low flying owls
in reply to Red • • •@r3dr3clus3 If you don't have the data, you can be ordered to give it up by whomever, and you can't. Proton mail claims privacy, but it in fact saves enough data to identify a single individual.
The headline is not biased. Proton claims things they actually can't uphold. This is not the fault of the customer. Stop blaming the victim.
cake-duke
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •draNgNon
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •taylor
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •I don't use Proton products at all (not for any idealist reasons), but I don't really think this can be much of a condemnation of the company. I don't know what else you can expect them to do in this case.
edit: That said, the real takeaway is that if you want to remain anonymous to a service that can be compelled to hand over data about you (read: more or less any service you might want to use), you should not pay with a credit card linked to your actual name, you should not access it from your home IP address, and you should not use it in any way that links it to your real self.
Proton is security focused, but even they are bound by the laws of the country they operate in. Use TOR, use E2EE, pay with cryptocurrency, maintain hermetic separation between your anonymous and public selves, etc.
ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •Living in Sri Lanka
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •DanieruOtakuBoy
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •adb
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •ohir
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •There is no anonymity on the nets. Even for very versed in nuances of surveilance hackers. 25 years ago we could use mixmasters and other aonymization techniques. And all privacy seeking users could have been deanonymized by a simple cepstral analysis of text produced. Some cypherpunks who knew tried to counter this using with their wanna-be-anon persona unusual capitalization, peculiar typos, and were sprinkling their posts with mannerisms and other distractive goodies perl allowed. It was not much helpful, ok, it usually could give a day or two of leg, because sample posts needed to be manually marked for topical analysis, but it was not possible to hide from determined adversary. No LLMs, just a few tools built for linguists.
Today so many netfarers want 'absolute anonymity' yet demand from us techies that it all must support stickers and must run on Android/iOS device that is costantly beaming not only their whreabouts, but also their food, flowers, body parts. And this fancy new furniture.
Jason Lefkowitz
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •reshared this
Oblomov reshared this.
Tim
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •i've had Proton for over a year now and like them. Anyone who is disappointed about this shouldn't be surprised. They have to obey Swiss law after all.
If you want a privacy-focused email provider, there aren't a lot of choices and Proton is still one of the best.
FreediverX
in reply to Tim • • •What's the point of paying for a privacy-focused email provider that doesn't provide privacy?
CyberFrog
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •I've been telling people for literal years that Proton is just a big tech provider, they have deactivated accounts and removed users simply for doing things they don't like, most recently they deactivated the account of some Phrack security researchers for annoying Proton by using the email for security disclosures
Also people should read their transparency logs, they regularly give out user data before valid court orders are even approved lol
TheStrangelet
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •nicolaottomano
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •kolektiva.social/@COSAntiFasci…
Colorado Springs Anti-Fascists
2026-03-06 00:32:44