Benvenuto nel Poliverso

Licho

1 settimana fa • •

Licho
1 settimana fa • •

Ok, #botany and #dendrology people, could I ask you for verification of the claims made in this video, about the spiral path of juices traveling through a tree?

Honestly I love Andrew Millison #permaculture videos but this video... This video triggers my bullshit detector. There's nothing outrageous here but it just gives this cultist vibe of hidden symbolism. I would really hate it if it turned out permaculture was bs. I really want it not to be.

How to Read the Invisible Language of Nature

youtube.com/watch?v=23i756NEAt…

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robloblaw

in reply to Licho • 1 settimana fa • •

That was my initial reaction to these pattern ideas too. Referring to Permaculture 1 as the 'bible' of permaculture doesn't help (better to say 'foundational text'). I'd also like knowledgeable people to weight in on the biology.

But with a little experience in Physics and mathematics, the assertions on the fractal nature of trees and erosion/deposition is correct and uncontroversial. Geologists would agree too.
1/x

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robloblaw

in reply to robloblaw • 1 settimana fa • •

Recognising how energy and mass moves through natural systems is crucial. These ideas can be tested with observation. Fast moving water carries away soil, slow moving water drops it. Forests slow winds, and allow dust to fall.

These insights are from fluid dynamics.
geological-digressions.com/flu…

Physics looks like wizards casting spells with arcane symbols too, but is the foundation of how we understand the world. A project of centuries, built on testing and trying to falsify theories.
2/2

Fluid flow: Stokes Law and particle settling - Geological Digressions

George Stokes' calculation of fluid drag on a settling particle and settling (terminal) velocity have important implications for sedimentology

^{brian (Geological Digressions)}

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Licho

in reply to robloblaw • 1 settimana fa • •

@robloblaw I am a university trained physicist. I'm familiar with science stuff and have no woo reaction to any of the actual science. I'm specifically asking dendrology people for confirmation of the suspiciously sounding claims about the spiral pathway of nutrients in trees. This is outside of my expertise.

@robloblaw

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ActivityPub - Collegamento all'originale

Nivolet

in reply to Licho • 1 settimana fa • •

The vessels that transport sap in the trunk are often arranged in a helical or spiral pattern in certain tree species, but this is more of a structural feature related to the mechanics of materials than an actual spiral flow of liquid. The CM pattern is primarily of mnemonic and symbolic value.

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Licho

in reply to Nivolet • 1 settimana fa • •

@nivolet.bsky.social awesome! Could you link some sources for this helical pattern of vessels? I'd love to read more about it.

@nivolet.bsky.social

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Nivolet

in reply to Licho • 1 settimana fa • •

Common pattern is Fibonacci spiral and coils. You can see spiral growth here youtu.be/jlqqZZ7q4-sPatterns help to understand structure and dynamic relationships.journals.biologists.com/dev/article/...

Time elapsed climbing vines

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Licho

in reply to Nivolet • 1 settimana fa • •

@nivolet.bsky.social oh, thanks I've been editing while you posted, only noticed it few seconds later. Thanks for the source, I'll make sure to read it

@Nivolet

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Licho

in reply to Licho • 1 settimana fa • •

@nivolet.bsky.social super awesome. Thanks a lot

Screenshot from the article

Wood is mostly made up of lignified tracheids, vessels and fibre cells generated from the cambium, a cylindrical secondary meristem on the outside of the stem. In many trees, files of wood cells appear to spiral weakly around the trunk, especially in younger-formed wood (Harris, 1989). This helical pattern appears to be the result of the plane of ancestral cell divisions in the cambium being slightly offset from radial. The direction of the spiral varies but is predictable depending on the species, indicating some inherent determinative process. In this regard, wood exhibits a near-universal right-handed arrangement of cellulose microfibrils in the main secondary (S2) cell wall layer (Barnett and Bonham, 2004). However, this is unlikely to impact on growth as the cells have already fully extended when the microfibrils are laid down, and the significance of this arrangement is unknown.

@Nivolet

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