How Distillation Makes AI Models Smaller and Cheaper
How Distillation Makes AI Models Smaller and Cheaper | Quanta Magazine
Fundamental technique lets researchers use a big, expensive “teacher” model to train a “student” model for less.Amos Zeeberg (Quanta Magazine)
Rockchip unveils RK3668 10-core Arm Cortex-A730/Cortex-A530 SoC with 16 TOPS NPU, RK182X LLM/VLM co-processor
The RK3688 will come with eight big cores and four SMALL cores, while the RK3668 is offered in a four big cores and six SMALL cores configuration. The RK3688 also offers a 32 TOPS AI accelerator, up to 200GB/s LPDDR6 memory bandwidth, a 16Kp30 video decoder, and an 8Kp60 video encoder.
The second announcement I noticed, thanks to BG5SUN on X, is about the RK182X 3B/7B LLM/VLM co-processor.
It features a multi-core RISC-V CPU, 2.5GB or 5GB “ultra-high bandwidth” DRAM, and PCIe 2.0, USB 3.0, and Ethernet interfaces to connect to the host processor. The company indicates that INT4/FP4 7B parameter models can fit into 3.5GB of RAM. They are designed for the company’s Rockchip RK3576/RK3588 SoCs, already equipped with a 6 TOPS NPU, as well as other processors.
Rockchip unveils RK3668 10-core Arm Cortex-A730/Cortex-A530 SoC with 16 TOPS NPU, RK182X LLM/VLM co-processor - CNX Software
The Rockchip Developer Conference 2025 (RKDC!2025) is now taking place in Fuzhou, China, with some interesting announcements such as the Rockchip RK3668Jean-Luc Aufranc (CNXSoft) (CNX Software Limited)
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Ukraine’s ‘rout’ will continue – Medvedev
Ukraine’s ‘rout’ will continue – Medvedev
Fresh EU sanctions will not change Moscow’s position on the Ukraine conflict, former Russian President Medvedev has saidRT
Wild Video Shows Entire Mountain Range in China Covered With Solar Panels
Thanks to its high altitude and moody climate, the mountainous province makes a poor location for industrial agricultural. But those disadvantages also make the province a prime location for solar installations — something the region has embraced in recent decades.
Per China Daily, the provinces' first solar installation went online in 2015, but it was slow going as the nation set about achieving its ambitious renewable energy goals. By 2018, Guizhou was generating about 1.75 million kilowatts in solar energy per year, enough for around 1300 households (for context, the average Chinese household used 1332 kilowatt hours per year in 2024).
By 2020, Guizhou reportedly reached over 10 million kilowatts in solar capacity, fueled by government subsidies, cheap bank loans for renewable energy companies, and cheap real estate in the province. By 2023, that number reached 15 million kilowatts — and it doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon.
Wild Video Shows Entire Mountain Range in China Covered With Solar Panels
A breathtaking video shared on social media shows a mountain range in Guizhou blanketed in solar panels as far as the eye can see.Joe Wilkins (Futurism)
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Well-managed solar farms can boost wildlife - Cambridge study
Findings by the RSPB and Cambridge University find solar farms can contribute to and aid biodiversity.Danny Fullbrook & PA Media (BBC News)
New AI model could revolutionize U.S manufacturing
New AI model could revolutionize U.S manufacturing
Artificial intelligence has transformed fields like medicine and finance, but it hasn't gained much traction in manufacturing. Factories present a different…National Science Foundation
When Do You Need to Quit Your Job?
When Do You Need to Quit Your Job?
How is "changing things from within" going for you?Hamilton Nolan (How Things Work)
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When Do You Need to Quit Your Job?
When Do You Need to Quit Your Job?
How is "changing things from within" going for you?Hamilton Nolan (How Things Work)
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[PSA] Malware distributed on the AUR
On the 16th of July, at around 8pm UTC+2, a malicious AUR package was
uploaded to the AUR. Two other malicious packages were uploaded by the
same user a few hours later. These packages were installing a script
coming from the same GitHub repository that was identified as a Remote
Access Trojan (RAT).The affected malicious packages are:
- librewolf-fix-bin
- firefox-patch-bin
- zen-browser-patched-bin
The Arch Linux team addressed the issue as soon as they became aware of
the situation. As of today, 18th of July, at around 6pm UTC+2, the
offending packages have been deleted from the AUR.We strongly encourage users that may have installed one of these
packages to remove them from their system and to take the necessary
measures in order to ensure they were not compromised.
Follow up
There are more packages with this malware found.
minecraft-crackedttf-ms-fonts-allvesktop-bin-patchedttf-all-ms-fonts
What to do
If you installed any of these packages, check your running processes for one named systemd-initd (this is the RAT).
The suspicious packages have a patch from this now-inaccessible Codeberg repo:
codeberg.org/arch_lover3/brows…The Arch maintainers have been informed of all this already and are investigating.
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comm -1 -2 <(pacman -Q | awk '{print $1}' | sort) <(sort vulnerable_packages.txt)With
vulnerable_packages.txt containing one package name per line.
Washington wants the Ukrainian president to leave office—will it happen?
THE END FOR ZELENSKY?
Washington wants the Ukrainian president to leave office—will it happen?Seymour Hersh
Apple sues YouTuber who leaked iOS 26’s new “Liquid Glass” software redesign
Apple sues YouTuber who leaked iOS 26’s new “Liquid Glass” software redesign
YouTuber claims to “have receipts” disproving Apple’s allegations.Andrew Cunningham (Ars Technica)
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Meta refuses to sign EU's AI code of practice | TechCrunch
Meta refuses to sign EU's AI code of practice | TechCrunch
Meta will not sign the EU's new rules, calling the implementation "over-reach"Ram Iyer (TechCrunch)
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This, plus the recent 'pay or consent' fiasco, makes pretty clear they are going straight for a deliberate collision route with the EU.
I assume they got some kind of political backing for it, it's a quite sudden all in. Sigh.
EDIT: Wrong link
Unicorndog
Also, George Takei was in the US concentration camp as a child, so...
Holy shit, it's true!😮
Also, that thing about George Takei, too, yeah. (HOLY SHIT!!)
Fediverse Village at HOPE
From August 15-17 2025, SWF will be helping to bring the Fediverse to HOPE. HOPE (Hackers on Planet Earth) is a grass-roots conference for hackers and developers in Queens in New York City. This year, I (Evan) will be speaking at the event on Aug 15 at 2PM ET, and we (SWF) will be organizing a Fediverse Village for HOPE_16.
Villages are available themed spaces in the St. John’s University campus to be used for coordinating activities. We’re hoping (!) to have talks, meetings, hacking events, and social gatherings at the Fediverse Village.
If you are involved in the Fediverse – or want to be – please join us at HOPE. There will be a lot of interesting and exciting things happening. And if you have good ideas for things to do at the Fediverse Village, please comment or let me know at @evanprodromou@socialwebfoundation.org.
[HOPE_16] Welcome to Hackers On Planet Earth!
HOPE_16 is an all-ages event with at least four speaker tracks, a whole bunch of workshops, awesome vendors, and fun activities throughout the entire weekend.hope.net
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A Prominent OpenAI Investor Appears to Be Suffering a ChatGPT-Related Mental Health Crisis, His Peers Say
A Prominent OpenAI Investor Appears to Be Suffering a ChatGPT-Related Mental Health Crisis, His Peers Say
Bedrock co-founder Geoff Lewis has posted increasingly troubling content on social media, drawing concern from friends in the industry.Joe Wilkins (Futurism)
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In this case, the United States. When healthcare is expensive and hard to access, not everybody gets it.
Syphilis symptoms can be so mild they go unnoticed. When you combine that with risky sexual behavior (hook-up culture, anti-condom bias) and lack of testing due to inadequate medical care, you can wind up with untreated syphilis. If you become homeless, care gets even harder to access.
You get diagnosed at a late stage when treatment is more difficult. They put you on a treatment plan, but followup depends on reliable transportation and the mental effects of the disease have made you paranoid. Now imagine you're also a member of a minority on which medical experiments have historically been done without consent or notice.
You don't really trust that those pills are for what you've been told at all. So difficulty accessing healthcare, changing clinics as you move around with medical history not always keeping up, distrust of the providers and treatment, and general instability and lack of regular routine all add up to only taking your medication inconsistently.
Result: under-treated syphilis
I have an idea for to prevent broken links from Lemmy instances that shutting down
There will be a lot of lemm.ee/p/123 links around. As far as I understand, any server that federated with lemm.ee (e.g. lemmy.world) will continue to host the federated communities and posts forever.
So here's my proposal. We build a simple tool that says, when you visit lemm.ee/p/123, we check if that post exists on lemmy.world and forward you there. Doesn't necessarily have to be lemmy.world. We could even present the user with multiple instances to resolve the post from.
If you're interested in how this would work, it would utilize the resolve_object endpoint, which both Lemmy and PieFed implement.
Here are some examples of how you can still look up lemm.ee posts via the API of other instances:
- lemmy.world/api/v3/resolve_obj…
- lemmy.world/api/v3/resolve_obj…
- lemmy.world/api/v3/resolve_obj…
- lemmy.zip/api/v3/resolve_objec…
- lemmy.zip/api/v3/resolve_objec…
- piefed.social/api/alpha/resolv…
- piefed.world/api/alpha/resolve…
For this to really work smoothly, whoever owns the domains of the shut down instances would have to host this tool (e.g. lemm.ee would have to host it at lemm.ee). I have no idea how to get in touch with whoever owns the domain, but I would be happy to help build this.
Yeah absolutely! But it does feel more useful to have it live on the domain if possible.
I run my own Lemmy/PieFed client. I'm trying to think if there is a way to tell if an instance has shut down without hard coding a list. The hard part imo is telling if an instance is shut down vs temporarily down.
Though as I write this, I suppose this same feature could be used to resolve a post if an instance is temporarily down. So maybe I just ping /nodeinfo/2.1 and if it times out, I redirect.
What if an instance wants to disappear?
Edit: Oh, I see, this would be a service provided by whoever owns the shut-down domain.
Sotto il cielo di Trevi (PG) accende l’estate di teatro e musica, la stagione in scena dal 19 luglio al 30 agosto 2025
Dal 19 luglio al 30 agosto torna a Trevi la magia della rassegna “Sotto il cielo di Trevi – Musica e teatro nel paesaggio”, promossa dal Teatro Belli di Antonio Salines con il patrocinio del Comune. Un cartellone che trasforma borghi, piazze e parchi in palcoscenici a cielo aperto, con spettacoli, emozioni e incontri.
Villa Fabri, la Chiesa di San Lorenzo, il Parco Agricolo, Piazza Mazzini, Matigge e Cannaiola ospiteranno artisti e compagnie in serate dedicate alla cultura, alla riflessione e al divertimento.
Ad aprire la rassegna, il 19 luglio, “L’impresario delle Smirne” di Goldoni con Gigi Savoia, per poi proseguire il 20 luglio a Matigge con “Contaminazioni poetiche” tra poesie e canzoni popolari. Il 26 luglio, Edoardo Siravo interpreta Achab in “Moby Dick”, mentre il 28 luglio va in scena “I Menecmi” di Plauto.
Il 1° agosto, “Voci di donne – Lettere a Mascagni” esplora il ruolo femminile nelle opere del compositore; il 3 agosto, tra musica e gastronomia, “Rossini e i sapori della musica”. Il 4 agosto omaggio a Pasolini con “Tutto il mio folle amore lo soffia il cielo”; il 5 agosto “Per futili motivi”, satira distopica su una società fondata sull’odio.
Il 22 agosto il “Sognatore” di Dostoevskij prende vita al Parco Agricolo; il 23, visita teatrale itinerante gratuita “Trevi, ovvero vissi d’amore e di merangole”. Il 24, alla Chiesa di San Francesco, “Domenico, un uomo buono”, su San Domenico da Foligno.
Il 29 agosto, concerto spettacolo dei Baraonna in Piazza Mazzini. Chiusura il 30 agosto a Cannaiola con “Canzoni sulla Luna” del gruppo The Eldar.
Biglietti: €10 a Villa Fabri, €3 altrove. Info: 327 818 4788 – compagnia@teatrobelli.it – Prevendite su VivaTicket.
Sotto il cielo di Trevi (PG) accende l'estate di teatro e musica, la stagione in scena dal 19 luglio al 30 agosto 2025 - ViaggieMiraggi
“Sotto il cielo di Trevi“ accende l’estate di teatro e musica Dal 19 luglio al 30 agosto 2025 torna la magia della stagione estiva firmata Teatro Belli di Antonio Salines con spettacoli, emozioni e incontri tra le vie, i parchi...Redazione (ViaggieMiraggi)
face and got upset enough from the sight of him to start comparing a chinese man to a yellow bear. 
Just skip to using slurs next time loser your not slick.
Trump can basically print infinite amounts of dollars through the federal reserve.
As we all know, conflicts are hella expensive and often decided by who can stay solvent longer. The fact that trump can just print dollars is extremely problematic here.
I guess the necessary course of action would be to bring the dollar's value to zero, and use an alternative currency instead (such as euro, canadian dollar, mexican pesos).
Festa del Vino, a Pergola (PU) dal 25 al 27 luglio 2025 si celebrano i 20 anni del Pergola Doc
Da venerdì 25 a domenica 27 luglio, il centro storico di Pergola, uno dei Borghi più Belli d’Italia, ospita la 53esima edizione della Festa del Vino, organizzata dalla Pro loco con il patrocinio del Comune. Un’edizione speciale che celebra i 20 anni del Pergola Doc, eccellenza locale sempre più apprezzata.
Tre giorni di iniziative dedicate all’“Oro Rosso” pergolese, tra degustazioni, riflessioni e festa. Venerdì alle 19.30, sotto i portici di Piazza Garibaldi, l’evento “A cena con Aleatico & Lacrima”: degustazione guidata di 9 vini (tra Pergola Doc, Uva Nera Rada e Lacrima di Morro d’Alba DOC), condotta dal sommelier Raffaele Papi, vicepresidente AIS Marche, con racconti e curiosità dei produttori. In abbinamento, menù speciale dello chef Filippo Petrolati. Prenotazione obbligatoria (tel. 388.0732931).
Sabato alle 17.30 in sala consiliare si terrà la tavola rotonda “20 anni di Pergola Doc”, con produttori ed esperti come Alberto Mazzoni (IMT), Luca Gambucci (AIS Marche Fabriano) e il produttore Stefano Tonelli, per ripercorrere la storia e il valore culturale del Pergola Doc. Modera Ubaldo Alimenti. A seguire degustazione sotto i portici.
Nel weekend, le cantine del centro storico proporranno degustazioni di Pergola Doc e specialità tipiche, accompagnate da musica, animazione, laboratori, arte, area bimbi e tanta ospitalità.
Info: social Pro loco Pergola.
Festa del Vino, a Pergola (PU) dal 25 al 27 luglio 2025 si celebrano i 20 anni del Pergola Doc - ViaggieMiraggi
Festa del Vino, a Pergola si celebrano i 20 anni del Pergola Doc Dal 25 al 27 luglio 2025: 3 giornate ricche di iniziative Un viaggio sensoriale tra tradizione, gusto e convivialità decollerà venerdì 25 luglio, quando a Pergola si...Redazione (ViaggieMiraggi)
DOGE staffer with access to Americans' personal data leaked private xAI API key | TechCrunch
The creator of DOGE gets a taste of what he created.
That's called poetic justice.
DOGE staffer with access to Americans' personal data leaked private xAI API key | TechCrunch
The researcher who found the exposed key said it “raises questions” about how DOGE handles sensitive data.Zack Whittaker (TechCrunch)
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The Astronomer CEO's Coldplay Concert Fiasco Is Emblematic of Our Social Media Surveillance Dystopia | 404 Media
Archive link: archive.ph/aHrbK
The Astronomer CEO's Coldplay Concert Fiasco Is Emblematic of Our Social Media Surveillance Dystopia
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The CEO seemingly having an affair with the head of HR at his company at the Coldplay concert is a viral video for the ages, but it is also, unfortunately, emblematic of our current private surveillance and social media hellscape.
The video, which is now viral on every platform that we can possibly think of, has been covered by various news outlets, and is Pop Crave official, shows Andy Byron, the CEO of a company called Astronomer, with his arms around Astronomer’s head of HR, Kristen Cabot. The jumbotron cuts from one fan to this seemingly happy couple. They both simultaneously die inside; “Oh look at this happy couple,” Coldplay lead singer Chris Martin says. The woman covers her face and spins away. The man ducks out of frame. “Either they’re having an affair or they’re very shy,” Martin said. The camera pans to another company executive standing next to them, who is seemingly shaking out of discomfort.
It is hard to describe how viral this is at the moment, in a world in which so many awful things are occurring and in which nothing holds anyone’s attention for any length of time and in a world in which we are all living in our own siloed realities. “Andy Byron” is currently the most popular trending Google term in the United States, with more than double the searches of the next closest term.
There are so many levels to this embarrassment—the Coldplay of it all, the HR violation occurring on jumbotron, etc—that one could likely write a doctoral dissertation on this 15 second video.
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Subscribe nowThe Astronomer CEO's Coldplay Concert Fiasco Is Emblematic of Our Social Media Surveillance Dystopia
Facial recognition and crowdsourced social media investigations are constantly being used not just on cringe CEOs, but on random people who are simply existing in public.Jason Koebler (404 Media)
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Apple sues YouTuber who leaked iOS 26’s new “Liquid Glass” software redesign
According to the filing, Lipnik has been fired from Apple “for failing to follow Apple’s policies designed to protect its confidential information, including development devices and unreleased software and features.” The filing also accuses Lipnik of failing to report “multiple prior breaches” to Apple.
When you sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement), you’d best protect the secrets. Then again, the guy who left an iPhone 4 in a bar didn’t lose his job. Wonder what the differences are between them.
Apple sues YouTuber who leaked iOS 26’s new “Liquid Glass” software redesign
YouTuber claims to “have receipts” disproving Apple’s allegations.Andrew Cunningham (Ars Technica)
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China issues safety warning for its nationals studying in the Philippines
China’s Education Ministry has issued a safety warning for Chinese students in the Philippines, following what it describes as a series of criminal incidents targeting Chinese nationals.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/apnews.com/a…
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
"Storia di un Guerriero Lakota. Sotto il blu di Skan" – Un Esordio Epico che Ha Già Conquistato i Lettori
Tim Walz says Trump ‘brings out the worst in people – and the worst in me’
Kamala Harris running mate strikes regretful tone after calling for Democrats to ‘bully the shit out of’ US president
Brazil passes controversial 'devastation bill' that weakens environmental regulations
Critics have called it "by far the worst piece of legislation” ever from an environmental standpoint.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/euronews.com…
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
Taiwan will 'not provoke confrontation' with China, vice president says
Taiwan's vice president says the self-ruled democracy will not provoke a confrontation with China and seeks to communicate with Beijing on the basis of parity and respect.
Archived version: archive.is/newest/apnews.com/a…
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
Arab Strap in tour a Roma, dopo 30 anni di carriera sempre riconoscibili anche se con uno stile diverso
Il duo indie-rock scozzese, in composto da Aidan Moffat e Malcolm Middleton, con trent’anni di attività sulle spalle, torna in Italia dopo l’uscita di I'm Totally Fine with It Don't Give a Fuck Anymore, uscito lo scorso 10 maggio. Tre le date italiane del tour: 23 luglio a Galzignano Terme all'Anfiteatro del Venda, il 24 luglio al Monk di Roma e il 25 luglio al Giardino Scotto di Pisa.
Con l'ultimo album gli Arab Strap non sembrano affatto preoccuparsi di rimanere fedeli all’identità sonora che, seppur evolvendo di volta in volta, li ha resi unici e distinguibili nel tempo. Già Bliss e ****Allatoncenes****, i singoli che avevano preceduto il lancio dell'ottava fatica in studio, sono due brani profondamente diversi tra loro che fungono da fiera testimonianza del loro focus sul futuro, sul cambiamento e sull’evoluzione.
I'm Totally Fine with It Don't Give a Fuck Anymore è un disco carico di tracce potenti e incisive, sia nella natura upbeat di alcuni dei momenti musicali più propulsivi, sia nel morso dei testi di Moffat. "Rispetto al nostro album precedente, c'è più rabbia e aggressività nelle parole", dice. "Non è apertamente politico ma è di sicuro un disco un po' arrabbiato con il mondo".
Il titolo (letteralmente traducibile come "per me va benissimo, non me ne frega più un...") potrebbe dare l'idea di una band che si stia arrendendo a qualcosa, in realtà fa riferimento a un messaggio del batterista live della band che Moffat ha trovato molto divertente e finisce per riflettere l'inaugurazione di un nuovo periodo di libertà creativa per gli Arab Strap.
crankyrebel
in reply to jackeroni • • •like this
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AreaKode
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TwoBeeSan
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acockworkorange
in reply to AreaKode • • •like this
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isolatedscotch
in reply to AreaKode • • •idriss
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IAmJacksRage
in reply to jackeroni • • •shrugs
in reply to jackeroni • • •Change my mind
Capitalism is a tool to maximize profit. Whoever thought it was a good idea to let capitalism have influence on laws so that they can maximize its profit was a big fool.
What do you expect? Capitalism, a tool, has by definition no morale. Let it decide politics to increase profit and you end up with that kind of shit society we have today.
Don't blame the hammer, when you hit your thumb. Also, don't let the hammer decide where to make the biggest dent.
Can we please start again focusing on the people? Without people there is no society, and there is no market to increase profits.
Start using capitalism and free markets like a tool. Want more renewable and clean energy? Make rules and see the magic of capitalism in making the best out of it.
Instead we let capitalism decide what should be done next and suffer the consequences. It's as easy as that.
Unfortunately capitalism not only create the rules, they also decide what is news and influence societies views. And that's why OPs picture is as it is.
Fuck socialism, am I right guys?!
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ThePyroPython
in reply to shrugs • • •I agree with this 100%.
Capitalism is exceptional at finding ways to provide value when there is a new market. The issue comes when capital gets accumulated and concentrated in the hands of a few.
We've seen it dozens of times throughout history where a healthy merchant class with lots of opportunity for upwards mobility ends up in an oligarchy as the market becomes saturated then monopolies, duopolies, and cabals (guilds) form.
The state needs to use the "P" and "L" in PESTEL forces (Political, Economical, Social, Technological, Environmental, Legal) that businesses (from single to large multinational) to identify new markets that need investment.
An examples would be new clean renewable electricity and one way of giving preferrence to this green energy by minimally taxing profts on this energy sold in the national market or international market via grid-interconnect networks ("Gridternets" if you will) with a clear plan to increase the tax to a normalised amount slowly overtime as the green share of the market approaches 100%.
It also has to be used to more aggressively dissuade markets that are more harmful than good now. An example of this is dirty power.
Coal, Oil, and Gas have done wonders for increasing people's quality of life because they unlocked a new energy density previously unattainable. Now we have alternatives that are by every metric better; more efficient and less polluting.
Therefore, these industries need to be taxed out of existence by using a logarithmic energy carbon tax that keeps increasing year on year. Corruption needs to be rooted out like a weed as much as possible using a politically independent organ of the state to keep it healthy.
Then there's markets that are stagnant in some state of capture: crumbling infrastructure, food retailer hypermarkets, etc. Windfall suprise taxes on incumbents and grants / zero interest loans for new competitors would reignight competition in those markets and the additional tax revenue can be used to fix the crumbling infrastructure these markets rely on.
And finally, I'd like to see a strong preference for co-operatives where ownership in a free market is much more evenly distributed by making them the least taxed commercial entities with businesses that have a higher concentration of ownership are taxed more through some sort of profit tax multiplier.
It's much harder for a business to act in a pure profit motive to the detriment of society if the employees have more ownership as it allows morality to be expressed through political power within this business. These employees also then benefit from the profit share as well which gives stability and upward mobility in exchange for their labour.
There, that's three proposals that could help towards decarbonisation, investing in underfunded infrastructure, and reducing inequality.
I am not a policy expert and there's bound to be problems with each of those proposals that I haven't thought of, but we have so much more to gain by working cooperatively together to build a system that aims to better humanity as a whole by using the best tools correctly and safety.
Until we reach an energy density which unlocks technology that enables things like a resourceless economy (a la Star Trek luxury space communism), we're stuck with the tools of money and capital as the ways to transfer value.
I personally can't wait for the day where "reputation" rather than money becomes the currency of society, I am willing to work with the tools we have right now to build that future, and I have faith that others are willing to build it with me.
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bdjukemgood
in reply to jackeroni • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to jackeroni • • •Democrats
* Retain marriage rights for gay couples.
Republicans
*Eliminate the EPA, Department of Education.
But yeah, they are totally the same, right guys? RIGHT!?!
TrippyFocus
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
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ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to TrippyFocus • • •That's a right thing, not a left thing.
A lot of left leaning places pushed consent decrees, for example:
chicagopolice.org/community-po…
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
IHave69XiBucks
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Not even getting into the whole voter participaton thing here. I'm just curious does that mean you consider Trump the status quo? Because he won the popular vote in the most recent election. Because if so i agree. Trump is business as usual for the US. Just going mask off. Just surprised to see a liberal admit as much.
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∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/its, she/her, fae/faer, love/loves, null/void, des/pair, none/use name]
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in reply to ∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/its, she/her, fae/faer, love/loves, null/void, des/pair, none/use name] • • •reagansrottencorpse
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in reply to reagansrottencorpse • • •Zombie
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Barely.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ec…
measure of the state of democracy according to The Economist
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)agamemnonymous
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •You've certainly whitewashed Dems quite a lot. You're fundamentally not wrong though. As bad as the Dems are, and they are very bad, MAGA is undeniably worse. If we had some other electoral system, we could safely explore other options. But we don't. We have FPTP, which makes it a binary choice between bad and worse.
And worse is just so, so much worse. That doesn't make bad good, but it's still a binary choice. You'd have to be evil or stupid to try to muddy the waters so that bad seems close enough to worse that people don't feel the urgency of choosing bad to prevent worse.
BrainInABox
in reply to agamemnonymous • • •like this
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isolatedscotch
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to agamemnonymous • • •agamemnonymous
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •BrainInABox
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Westerners will go on and on about how North Koreans are brainwashed to worship their leaders, then say shit like this.
Apparently doing the modern holocaust doesn't' count as "violence" to white supremacist BlueMAGA fascists.
AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •like this
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ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Literally fucking half of the shit you attribute to democrats.
Start here. This is a fucking lie and you're practically a nazi for whitewashing them
ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •Not allowing choke holds isn't superficial. Body cams aren't superficial. They cut down on police use of force and citizen complaints. They also cost money. Better trained police costs money. Sending out social workers with police on domestic calls costs money ,and makes a huge difference in the quality of policing.
The only substantial reduction in policing cost is cutting back on the drug war and most left leaning states are doing that. (Reducing numbers of police would do it but most states have similar per capita number of police as Europe).
There is no doubt we have a long way to go on police reform, but to say there has been no progress simply isn't true.
AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •I'm sorry but you're extremely too credulous and unthinking.
I already explained why and how bans on chokeholds are superficial. Are your senses so dull that you didn't notice or are you being deliberately dishonest and lazy by not addressing it?
Body cams are even more glaring an example. It's extremely fucking common knowledge that they turn them off whenever they want. Do you think you're being strategic by ignoring that fact? Because the effect in reality is it makes you sound like an idiot. Your entire premise is undermined.
You just straight up have no idea what's happening in the world around you.
slate.com/news-and-politics/20…
"More training costs money"
I Learned to Think Like a “Warrior Cop”
Justin Peters (Slate)ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
Yes, some cops are going to use chokeholds regardless of bans. Some people are going to commit murder regardless of it being illegal too. That doesn't mean we shouldn't bother having laws against murder. The fact that chokes are not reduced to zero by chokehold bans does not negate that it reduces the number of chokes used. In the same way, the fact that cops will sometimes shut off their cams does not negate the times that they don't turn off the cams and it allows victims to seek justice.
I am aware of Killilogy and Warrior Cop training. Cops receiving the wrong training is an entirely separate issue from the cost of improved training.
Finally, please refrain from personal attacks as this detracts from your arguments and violates community guidelines.
piefood
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •I think you dropped this:
Democrats & Republicans
* Bombed kids
* Tortured innocent people
* Increased the surveillance state
* Took money from the poor and working class, and gave it to their rich friends
* Spent billions on wars, while claiming that they couldn't afford to fix our healthcare or housing problems
* Boasted about deporting more people than Republicans
* Backed a Genocide
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webadict
in reply to piefood • • •piefood
in reply to webadict • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to piefood • • •webadict
in reply to piefood • • •piefood
in reply to webadict • • •BrainInABox
in reply to webadict • • •isolatedscotch
in reply to BrainInABox • • •flawed argument, this is the real world and you do have to compare options.
Making an imaginary secret third option to win the fight is reserved for kids in the playground
BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •isolatedscotch
in reply to BrainInABox • • •blah blah blah very cultured very much words
do you want a standing ovation for eating a dictionary for breakfast or do you intend to face reality
BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •How bad is your fucking vocabulary if words like "pragmatic" are too fancy for you.
Jesus, I knew fascists were anti-intectual, but getting angry at words the average middle schooler would know is a new level.
only_in_ohio
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to only_in_ohio • • •BrainInABox
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Genocide apologist
ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •piefood
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •Voters: "Please stop bombing children", "Please stop backing a genocide", "Please stop handing out our taxes to your rich friends", "Please stop making healthcare the number one reason for bankruptcy", "Please stop sending people to torture prisons", "Please make minimum wage a livable wage"
I think you might have a warped view of what "less than ideal" means
ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to piefood • • •I hate it but, until March or April (depending on the poll) a majority of the country still supported Israel.
pewresearch.org/short-reads/20…
Democrats regularly raise taxes on the rich and Republicans regularly raise them. Democrats regularly push for prison reform and things like cashless bail. Republicans regularly push for harsher sentencing and reductions in per-prisoner spending. Compare a map of state minimum wages to their political alignment.
If you want Democrats to act on these things more, we have to get obstructionist Republicans out of office.
Wikimedia list article
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)kreskin
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to kreskin • • •kreskin
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •I wouldnt say a party of genocide supporters who love to kick progressives in the face and dont seem to give 2 shites what their voters want and need, and who have a wildly eroding base and 28% approval doesnt qualify as a:
But I guess if thats what you think I'm not going to change your mind.
ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to kreskin • • •kreskin
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to kreskin • • •Democrats still have 23 governorships, control 37% of state legislatures, and 40% of state chambers. Six of the ten most populous states have 2 Democrat senators, three have Republican senators, and one is split. The house is split 219 Republican to 212 Democrat, but the Democrats represent a much larger portion of the population.
The point is, Democrats are far from being out of the game. Nobody else comes close to having a chance of beating Republicans in an election.
kreskin
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •ChonkyOwlbear
in reply to kreskin • • •piefood
in reply to only_in_ohio • • •only_in_ohio
in reply to piefood • • •piefood
in reply to only_in_ohio • • •Zerush
in reply to only_in_ohio • • •In the US is needed that also enter left wing parties, which represent the basic rights of the people, which currently don't exist, because they are "anti-american communists", this is the mantra with which they create the fear in the people to vote it.
Zerush
in reply to ChonkyOwlbear • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Zerush • • •Zerush
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Zerush • • •No. Please don't make claims about things you don't know about. It makes it sound like you're lying deliberately.
Maybe in your imaginary dream land that I assume you were referring to with your comment about the EU arresting Netanyahu, not in the real world though. Please try and remember we are talking about the real world.
Zerush
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Certainly not all EU members will arrest him, but the most will. The ICC statement is clear, the problem for some countries is the USA and beeing a NATO member (sadly) at the same time Israel is supported by the USA. This is because some countries are still hesitant, not for other reasons.
The real world is this, and because more and more countries want to turn the EU sovereign respect the US. Trumps BBB and Tariffs for the EU, probably will accelerate this process in August 1, in the manner of selfdefense.
ICC prosecutor warned to drop Netanyahu case or be ‘destroyed’: Report
Al Jazeeraselokichtli
in reply to jackeroni • • •like this
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bassomitron
in reply to jackeroni • • •Don't remember the last time the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse and deporting them to war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
This reeks of fucking shitpost right-wing propaganda.
Edit: here come all the "but the US/CIA did all this fucked up stuff to other countries under Dems, too!"
JFC, the current "president" who is GOP literally yells about wanting to deport/arrest political opponents, censor TV personalities (e.g. Colbert, Fallon, etc), openly calls to suppress political opposition in voting, openly supports ignoring the courts when they interfere with his blatantly unconstitutional actions, etc etc .
Yes, the Dems aren't fucking innocent, but to pretend they're the same as a party that's openly trying to "take back the Nazi word" is fucking insane.
BrainInABox
in reply to bassomitron • • •Damn I wonder why Libya is like that!
You absolute ghouls literally don't see foreigners as human
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mathemachristian[he]
in reply to BrainInABox • • •like this
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BrainInABox
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •小莱卡
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •yucandu
in reply to BrainInABox • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •Samsuma
in reply to yucandu • • •小莱卡
in reply to Samsuma • • •like this
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Samsuma
in reply to 小莱卡 • • •小莱卡
in reply to yucandu • • •like this
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Count042
in reply to yucandu • • •vfreire85
in reply to BrainInABox • • •yucandu
in reply to bassomitron • • •BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •Kultronx
in reply to bassomitron • • •SinAdjetivos
in reply to bassomitron • • •The Posse Comitatus Act is what generally prevents military from "black bagging US residents" and leaves that job to police.
Texas was the first state to allow for the national guard to assist in immigration efforts back in 2021. Democrats did nothing to stop, delay or prevent the expansion of those powers which were further pushed and nationalized in 2025.
The other loophole is invoking the insurrection act. While Biden did not involve it it was repeatedly threatened during the Gaza war protests, however the protests never got too riotous for the Dems to risk damaging their image and the local police were perfectly capable of documenting and black bagging people for it.
The cases of Kahlil and Mahdawi where Trump attended to deport individuals participating in those protests was made possible by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. That specific bill was introduced by the Democrats, passed the Democratic majority House and Senate, Vetoed by Democratic president Truman before being overridden by the house/Senate.
You are correct that they are "not the same", but stating that the shield of your enemy is your friend, just because it isn't a sword is fucking insane.
mathemachristian[he]
in reply to bassomitron • • •bassomitron
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to bassomitron • • •bassomitron
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •People had literally burned down police stations and mass looting was occurring. Their police force was completely overrun. Don't act like it was remotely the same thing.
I have several friends in Minneapolis that are very progressive. There were tons of people who were legit scared during periods of that for numerous reasons. It wasn't "acceptable," but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
Saleh
in reply to bassomitron • • •Maybe reform the law and order that regularly lets Police murder citizens because they feel like it?
You know, how the protestors demanded before their peaceful protest got beaten up in order to escalate violence to deligitimize the demands and present the violent police as necessary.
bassomitron
in reply to Saleh • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to bassomitron • • •if it isn't acceptable it isn't acceptable period. "this was the only way" literally means that you think it was acceptable.
bassomitron
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •I put it in quotes because I wasn't meaning it to be so exact.
But whatever, I'm done arguing with enlightened centrists.
mathemachristian[he]
in reply to bassomitron • • •OrteilGenou
in reply to bassomitron • • •They're not the same. The Dems stand back and shake their fist/wring their hands when the Repubs have power and run roughshod over them. Then when the Dems have power they allow their efforts to be thwarted by the Repubs and gesture helplessly when in fact they could just push things through themselves.
Also the DNC is a malfunctioning toilet that costs elections, implying that they think it's better to have a pro-establishment Repub in power than a Dem maverick.
Scotty_Trees
in reply to bassomitron • • •piefood
in reply to Scotty_Trees • • •/s
Zerush
in reply to bassomitron • • •Public services, labor rights and even basic rights, like health and education are a bad joke in the US and only available if you have money. Now with Trump it goes even worse.
DancingBear
in reply to bassomitron • • •yucandu
in reply to jackeroni • • •Now we have to guess which country's propaganda machine is responsible for this post.
It's Russia. It's always Russia.
daydrinkingchickadee
in reply to yucandu • • •As if your own country hasn't been filling your head with propaganda from the day you were born 🙄
Oh, but that's different. We're the good guys!
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to daydrinkingchickadee • • •Everything i don't like is "russian".
Blaming problems on an external enemy to distract from internal problems and also to assemble the people behind a "strong man" leader.
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yucandu
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •No, this stuff is Russian:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet…
rollingstone.com/politics/poli…
Why are people on Lemmy so keen on denying this simple fact?
That Uplifting Tweet You Just Shared? A Russian Troll Sent It
Darren Linvill (Rolling Stone)BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •There’s a world of difference between “Russia has propaganda” and “this post and anything like it that criticises the West is Russian propaganda”
Also, Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source.
davel
in reply to yucandu • • •BlueAnonsense.
Note on New Trump-Russia Disclosures
Matt Taibbi (Racket News)yucandu
in reply to daydrinkingchickadee • • •AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to yucandu • • •like this
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Tetragrade
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •Sandouq_Dyatha
in reply to Tetragrade • • •Tetragrade
in reply to Sandouq_Dyatha • • •yucandu
in reply to Sandouq_Dyatha • • •No, my comment was about Russia influencing the world into trying to not hate Russia, Iran and China.
Then the guy above me replied something about the Iraq war.
Motherfucker, what the hell did that even mean?
Sandouq_Dyatha
in reply to yucandu • • •Russia is brainwashing people into not hating countries the U.S. tells you to hate ooooooo
yucandu
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •like this
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yucandu
in reply to BrainInABox • • •I'm not from the USA. Russia is absolutely trying to create problems in the USA though, and the rest of the west:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet…
rollingstone.com/politics/poli…
That Uplifting Tweet You Just Shared? A Russian Troll Sent It
Darren Linvill (Rolling Stone)BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •There's a world of difference between "Russia has propaganda" and "this post and anything like it that criticises the West is Russian propaganda"
Also, Wikipedia isn't a reliable source.
isolatedscotch
in reply to BrainInABox • • •luckily it cites actual sources unlike some russian trolls i know of
BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •Then you should cite those sources.
Warmed over Judeo- Bolsherik conspiracy
isolatedscotch
in reply to BrainInABox • • •if you had taken half a second to read what i wrote instead of copy pasting from your tankie .txt file of pre made responses, you'd realize the sources are cited in wikipedia
look, the russian troll even went to school and knows some history of his mother land!
BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •And if you had taken half a second to read what I wrote, rather than copy pasting the standard reddit shitlibs insults, youd realize that you should cite those sources, not expect other people to dig for them.
But we all know you didn't actually check the sources did you? You just trust it because Wikipedia said it.
You're not beating the neo-nazi accusations with this one.
OBJECTION!
in reply to yucandu • • •Fucking bootlicker.
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yucandu
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •How am I a "bootlicker" because I acknowledged Russian propaganda?
I'm not from the USA. Russia is absolutely trying to create problems in the USA though, and the rest of the west:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet…
rollingstone.com/politics/poli…
You're the fucking bootlicker for denying it. Lick those Russian boots. Tell me how the sunflowers taste.
That Uplifting Tweet You Just Shared? A Russian Troll Sent It
Darren Linvill (Rolling Stone)OBJECTION!
in reply to yucandu • • •I never denied that Russia has propaganda. I do deny your assumption that anyone who isn't slobbering over US boots must automatically be licking Russian boots, that anyone who doesn't do like you do and fall in lockstep behind hating whoever the people in power tell us to hate must be a traitor or spy.
Keep denouncing anyone who's antiwar for their lack of patriotism, you're making Goering proud.
yucandu
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •You just posted a quote from Goering in response to me suggesting that a post that decries both parties for "Hostility to Russia, Iran and China" is probably Russian propaganda.
You sir, are the bootlicker.
OBJECTION!
in reply to yucandu • • •yucandu
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •No, I'm not. I just said that this post was likely Russian propaganda. That's it.
Maybe you should engage in some critical reflection instead of repeating whatever imperialist genocidal powers tell you to think.
OBJECTION!
in reply to yucandu • • •Because the post criticized the fact that American citizens get zero say over foreign policy, you assumed it was "likely Russian propaganda."
I do, you should try it yourself sometime, bootlicker.
BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •Look in the mirror, mate
BrainInABox
in reply to yucandu • • •小莱卡
in reply to yucandu • • •jackeroni
in reply to yucandu • • •cuerdo
in reply to jackeroni • • •sexy_peach
in reply to jackeroni • • •This meme seeks to get an emotional response and it's good at it. There's some hidden truth there.
But both parties are nowhere the same and wouldn't have a problem with such a two party system in different countries.
But they're only parties, with all that brings. They alone won't make the US a better country.
jackeroni
in reply to sexy_peach • • •sexy_peach
in reply to jackeroni • • •go $fsck yourself
in reply to jackeroni • • •ynthrepic
in reply to jackeroni • • •We may have got here eventually anyway, but things are a lot worse for Americans right now because of Trump's Republicans. Let's not lose sight of that when complaining about the shit they have in common.
There's also nobody who might emerge out of the right who would bring something that will make life for everyone better. Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony. Would they without pressure? Of course not. But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it's base, almost by definition basically.
BrainInABox
in reply to ynthrepic • • •No they don't
The Democrats couldn't be pressured to stop doing genocide even at the cost of losing the election
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ynthrepic
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to ynthrepic • • •I'm listening, I just think you're wrong.
And I brought up that issue specific to show that the Democrats also "will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base"
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ynthrepic
in reply to BrainInABox • • •gucken
in reply to ynthrepic • • •The hallmark progressive achievements made in this country, many that still exist today (to varying degrees ofc) were a result of third party sweat, blood and tears. Literally.
I recommend reading about the social/workers rights movements of the early 1900s. The Progressive Party led by Roosevelt, The Bull Moose Party with social reformers like Jane Addams and Florence Kelly, the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs.... all of these were most prominent in fighting for and ultimately producing a cluster of social welfare, social insurance reforms, women's suffrage, workers rights/5 day work week, etc.
It was the dedication, pressure and will to not fall in line trying to change the two-party duopoly from within but to build their own coalitions, their own movements on the outside, and thus the mainstream parties were eventually forced to inscribe the populus demands into legislation.
All that to say, healthy third parties are a good thing. It builds actual pressure on your legislators. Politicians wont work on your behalf when they know you're voting for them anyway – just line their pockets with money from the bourgeois they actually legislate for. Seeking the change you wish to see via third party can and has produced tremendous gains for the working class.
mathemachristian[he]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •like this
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ynthrepic
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •ynthrepic
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •ynthrepic
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Why do you think change from within impossible?
That's exactly what Trump and MAGA did to the Republican party.
Violent revolution brings change but rarely the kind of change most of those who engaged in it actually wanted.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •ynthrepic
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •I would have much preferred a connections Republican party over what we got.
If revolutions bring ultimately successful, examples?
I know there are some, with the obvious one being the American Civil War that ended slavery. But, wars come with an intense cost to human life, and sounds be a list resort. Precisely because most around the world have not been successful, and have lead to things like military rule.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •Regardless of how you feel about the GOP, the extent it is allowed to change is the extent to which the ruling class can continue to have their interests served. The DNC is the same in this respect, neither can go against the system dominated by private ownership, but they can slide around as long as they adhere to that.
As for successful revolutions, many. Algeria, Haiti, Cuba, China, Russia, Vietnam, etc. All have delivered much better results for their people post-revolution as compared to pre-revolution. Revolution happens because it's necessary.
mathemachristian[he]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •ynthrepic
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •ynthrepic
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •zbyte64
in reply to ynthrepic • • •Listen to yourself. You're saying the Democrats are our only hope yet they also don't listen.
Democrats do listen, but only to those with power. Before anything can change for the better we need power for ourselves.
ynthrepic
in reply to zbyte64 • • •Bloomcole
in reply to ynthrepic • • •All these reactions prove what many already knew, you deserve it and there's very little people to sympathise with.
InternetCitizen2
in reply to ynthrepic • • •The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy. They would rather let the Palestinian Genocide continue and works lose more rights than to do anything helpful in the near or medium term. They just aren't serious about the issues.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate. They aren't going hungry, nor under seige of any kind.
davel
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •This “pragmatism” is how we got here in the first place.
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
What in the world? (BBC News)InternetCitizen2
in reply to davel • • •In either case you're not doing shit and you're not a serious movement. Tankies don't vote to minimize harm, nor do they vote to expand the progressive wing.
You all are effectively the ratchet democratsyou laughs at because you ultimately won't show or organize for anything. Tankies aren't serious people.
"Bourgeois Democracy": What Do Marxists Mean By This Term?
Scott Cooper (Hampton Institute)BrainInABox
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •InternetCitizen2
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •In other words, you're wrong and you know it, but you're too huffy to admit it, so you're going to try to pretend like it's too below your dignity to actually respond to someone who disagrees with you. You're just so self evidently right, after all.
InternetCitizen2
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •InternetCitizen2
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •Oh I remember you, you were that loser who started stalking me because I called out your genocide denial.
I guess your ban expired
InternetCitizen2
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •InternetCitizen2
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to ynthrepic • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to jackeroni • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •like this
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JumpyWombat
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •It don't though, it just rises the price of energy because the gas still flows, even more than before, just from USA, Norway and yes, sill Russia, even more of it, but through middlemen. The sabotage also caused significant ecological catastrophe in the Baltic.
About the sabotage itself you have three versions available:
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JumpyWombat
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •woodenghost [comrade/them]
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to woodenghost [comrade/them] • • •Collatz_problem [comrade/them]
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Collatz_problem [comrade/them] • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •- YouTube
youtube.comJumpyWombat
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •What?
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JumpyWombat
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •like this
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JumpyWombat
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Ok? The significance of the clip I posted was not that it was Biden saying it but what he said he would do (and very likely did). Why did that prompt you say, "FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US?”"
The reason I posted that clip was to establish the reason why I believe the US blew up the pipeline. Yes, it happens to be Biden in that clip, but you're the one who started talking about distinguishing between Trump and Biden and then about not distinguishing between Trump and Biden. I'm just talking about the US.
The only thing I can think of is that you're trying to preemptively shift the NordStream thing away from Biden and onto the US in general as a way of deflecting blame from Biden. But again, I just brought it up to establish US policy on NordStream, not specifically to bash Biden. If it's not that, then I just straight up don't understand you at all.
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JumpyWombat
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Why did you feel the need to say that you don't care about internal US politics when I didn't say shit about internal US politics?
All I did was post a clip of the US president promising that he'll stop NordStream if Russia invaded Ukraine, despite not having the legal authority to do so. Then, of course, Russia invaded Ukraine, and the NordStream pipeline mysteriously got stopped (could be anyone, really!)
It certainly wasn't convenient for Russia or Germany.
JumpyWombat
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Again, why did you feel the need to say that you don’t care about internal US politics when I didn’t say shit about internal US politics?
Yeah, could be Russia's biggest geopolitical rival that directly benefited both politically and economically by forcing Europe to buy their gas instead and which said that it would do that exact thing under those exact conditions and easily have the means to do it, or it could've been anyone, really.
JumpyWombat
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •humanspiral
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •like this
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JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •die-tagespost.de/politik/katho…
Katholischer Rechtswissenschaftler ergänzte Brosius-Gersdorfs Wikipedia-Eintrag um Passage zum Lebensschutz
Meldung (Die Tagespost)JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •like this
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JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •like this
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JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Sounds like you have been living under a rock. Italy had already been a member of NATO by 1970, which already makes them complicit in things like the Lebensraum genocide in Palestine.
You claim that you are from Europe, but you are evidently very ignorant of its history.
JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •This is hilarious.
It has, apparently, been very 'defensively' committing the genocide in Palestine, and it so very 'defensively' invaded Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Vietnam, Korea, etc. /s
Only people with no knowledge of history and no knowledge of what has been happening this century think that it's a defensive alliance.
Also, what was/is it a defensive alliance of and from? Are you going to argue that it hasn't been an alliance defending colonial metropoles and settler-colonies from justice?
You should follow your own advice and learn about what it has been doing.
JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •'We gave ourselves permission to commit genocides and do invasions, so all of this is okay, akshully'.
It has always been a force for colonialism. NATO has killed millions in its invasions, including the recent ones into Iran, Syria, Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
No. Reread what I have said. My issue is not that NATO does not 'intervene' where it should. My issue is that NATO is fundamentally a colonial empire. It is a perpetrator of at least one genocide that is currently ongoing, and it is the most prolific invader in the world.
Literally Palestine.
In what way does that contradict any of what I have said? Pissrael is de facto a part of NATO (arguing that Pissrael could have ever been as successful in its Lebensraum project without NATO is ridiculous), so that's literally an example of yet another invasion by NATO.
JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Both Pissraeli and USian troops have been on the ground there recently.
NATO has also done stuff like the bombing of Yemen and Iran recently, as well as the completion of the invasion of Syria just within the last 12 months.
Pissrael is de facto a part of NATO.
Yes. Yes.
You are literally claiming that the invasions of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan by NATO did not happen.
JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Going to note that you are yet to dispute any of what I have been saying with facts. You have only been throwing baseless accusations at me.
I do. Not sure how the fact that those are individual countries/states contradicts the facts that they engage in collaborative colonialist efforts and that they are also subservient to the US - the de facto head of NATO.
I have literally pointed out a bunch of places where NATO has operated.
You should, in fact, stop supporting and denying colonialism.
BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •I recommend providing sources next time youre making the comperison between nazi terror cells doing pogroms and some revolutionary groups doing targeted assasinations of fascist politicians. Provide a source that the assassination of Aldo moro was financed or otherwise materially supported by the ussr or shut up. Because I found nothing of the sort.
Either way still not remotely comparable to what the wannabe-dirlewangers did and still do:
小莱卡
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Kultronx
in reply to BrainInABox • • •小莱卡
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to 小莱卡 • • •小莱卡
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to 小莱卡 • • •小莱卡
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to 小莱卡 • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to 小莱卡 • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •So, has the US withdrawn from NATO or is it a part of NATO?
Also, it would be nice if the US withdrew from NATO.
The rest of NATO has been a bunch of glorified provinces of the US since NATO's inception.
That would be great, actually. NATO in general should both be prevented from invading elsewhere, and be forced to answer for its already-committed crimes.
Glorified USian provinces in Europe will not be going independent any time soon.
JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •This is hilarious.
I know this because I have not been living under a rock, and have actually studied some history of the past couple of centuries, and not because I am a worshipper of any of your overlords.
EDIT: How would that even make sense, considering that the US does not try to claim that the rest of NATO are its obedient subjects? Did you not think your response through before you posted it?
JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
小莱卡
in reply to OBJECTION! • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to 小莱卡 • • •Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •No, that one belongs in the shared space too. It was Biden who literally bombed the infrastructure that made it possible for Germany to meet its energy needs without reliance on buying US oil/lng. Who froze all foreign assets that belonged to Afghanistan, essentially stealing billions of dollars that belonged to the Afghani people? Biden. Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with "the bad guy" state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you're a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn't mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
From 3 years ago:
That was all thanks to the Democrats during the Biden regime. Trump is putting as many nails into that coffin as he can, but we shouldn't pretend Republicans are the only ones responsible for showing the world that the dollar is dangerous and the US cannot be trusted.
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JumpyWombat
in reply to Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided] • • •Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Europeans may be a bit slow on the uptake, considering much of Europe is still imperial core and it's all still the global north, but just because European liberals have been struggling to let go of the propaganda that the U.S. is a benevolent force for "order" in the world doesn't mean that it is suddenly Trump alone that has irrevocably damaged U.S. soft power as well as a positive image of the U.S. in Europe.
More examples of issues that were major in the "discourse" under Biden (and earlier). Come on.
And a lot of this takes longer planning than just the 6 months Trump has been in office again. You may not have been aware of it, but many were (I may not be a European, but I have been speaking with plenty of them especially since February of '22). The U.S. has been advertising the fact that its is tightening its leash on its vassals (you Europeans) for a while now, which in turn is unintentional but unconcealable admission that its empire is struggling. Those with eyes to see it, and there are many, most certainly have been watching since long before Trump. I won't argue that Trump hasn't ramped it up in terms of how blatant it is with his overt buffoonery and open fascism (as opposed to the Democrat's false pretense of not being fascist), but to say it's something that the Democrats do not share in, or haven't deeply contributed to just as Trump has, well you're burying your head in the sand.
I honestly don't mean offense by this because it is so heavily dependent on what you hear in your MSM, but you and those who think this is new are slow on the uptake when compared to Europeans who closely follow this sort of thing, and Europe on the whole considering its relationship to US imperialism is going to be slow on the uptake compared to the rest of the world. And if we're talking about the rest of the world beyond Europe already knowing these things, well let me just say: BRICS+. But honestly, if you think that even European leaders didn't take a major fucking lesson from the blowing up of Nordstream, you're... well, I guess just living under the same rock most of the population who gets their news from major outlets are living under - still doesn't change the fact that the absolute dismantling of U.S. soft power and power projection (as "defenders" or as a country with whom deals and promises will be kept) is 100% a bipartisan project.
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JumpyWombat
in reply to Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided] • • •小莱卡
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •The glacial pace of European politics helps prove my point. The fact that the pace is slightly quickening may or may not be because of Trump - like I said, I certainly wouldn't argue against his undeniable increasing of the already rapidly deteriorating global image of the US as being trustworthy, but the whole point is that that deterioration was already happening when he got into office. Your original position is that it was not, that the Europeans feeling that the US cannot be trusted anymore and that the image of the dollar's supremacy was waning, that all of that rests entirely on the shoulder of the Republicans when that is just demonstrably not true.
You're shifting the goalposts a bit there, since I never claimed it was "the same" only that it was already clearly well underway, which I have maintained throughout. Yes, I am free to recognize the objective reality of the situation, just as you are free to, for whatever odd reason, push against it to mistakenly insist that Trump is some sudden and unique outlier in the collapse of US image and power projection when that has demonstrably been going on since before him and will continue after, even if he is ramping up the rate of deterioration.
JumpyWombat
in reply to Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided] • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •As opposed to fucking what? Implying their own opinion is wrong? Implying that two mutually exclusive things are simultaneously true? The very definition of having an opinion means you think opposing opinions are wrong!
JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •I'm also European and this is bullshit lmao
JumpyWombat
in reply to Ram_The_Manparts [he/him] • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •Why? Why should wars be excluded?
JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •JumpyWombat
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
isolatedscotch
in reply to Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided] • • •So you condone genocide as long as it's done by "communists". got it.
BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •????
That's borderline incoherent
isolatedscotch
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •davel
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •- Noam Chomsky: Russia is fighting more humanely than the US did in Iraq
- Russians Welcomed as Liberators in Many Eastern Ukrainian Cities Contrary to Western Media Depictions
- UN report on 2014-16 killings in Ukraine highlights “rampant impunity”
- U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
Russians Welcomed as Liberators in Many Eastern Ukrainian Cities Contrary to Western Media Depictions - CovertAction Magazine
Sonja Van den Ende (CovertAction Magazine)isolatedscotch
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •Then I guess Chomsky and the UN OHCHR are Russian trolls as well.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderit…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisa…
Ukrainian ultranationalist political organization
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)isolatedscotch
in reply to davel • • •you are the troll, lmao
chomsky js right but that doesn't excuse the russians currently doing much worse shit. being a "communist" country does not excuse your actions.
UN department that promotes human rights under international law
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)davel
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •BrainInABox
in reply to isolatedscotch • • •What the fuck are you talking about?
isolatedscotch
in reply to davel • • •BrainInABox
in reply to JumpyWombat • • •like this
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DefinitelyNotAPhone [he/him]
in reply to jackeroni • • •Zerush
in reply to DefinitelyNotAPhone [he/him] • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to jackeroni • • •like this
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Sandouq_Dyatha
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •Mambert
in reply to Sandouq_Dyatha • • •like this
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mathemachristian[he]
in reply to Mambert • • •Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided]
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •like this
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PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Dirt_Possum [she/her, undecided] • • •like this
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HenriVolney
in reply to jackeroni • • •don't like this
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geneva_convenience
in reply to HenriVolney • • •like this
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HenriVolney
in reply to geneva_convenience • • •like this
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RebekahWSD
in reply to HenriVolney • • •like this
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zbyte64
in reply to HenriVolney • • •crusa187
in reply to HenriVolney • • •I credit Dems with making Mitt Romney’s healthcare plan worse, by removing the public option - the thing that would have actually improved the lives of poorer people. Instead, we simply shoveled some 30mil Americans right into the pockets of predatory insurance companies.
The only silver lining from that legislation was preventing them from denying care due to pre-existing conditions, and that point has been an all out battleground ever since.
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redsunrise
in reply to HenriVolney • • •like this
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DancingBear
in reply to HenriVolney • • •PapaStevesy
in reply to DancingBear • • •DancingBear
in reply to PapaStevesy • • •Can you not see that the people who are disagreeing with you are merely suggesting that it is not as black and white as it being the democrats fault, or the republicans fault, that perhaps there’s more to it than which corporate/aipac/billionaire donor football team you like?
The donor class owns both teams by the way.
It’s the corporate dems and the corporate republicans who are holding back progress… because of legal bribery - campaign donations….
By your logic, democrats blocked 100% of Biden’s agenda while he was in office.
Biden literally accomplished nothing during his administration, and even the dumb stuff that was passed has been clawed back already.
PapaStevesy
in reply to DancingBear • • •DancingBear
in reply to PapaStevesy • • •PapaStevesy
in reply to DancingBear • • •piefood
in reply to DancingBear • • •It's not fair to say that he accomplished nothing! Bombing kids, backing a genocide, taking money from the working-class and poor, and giving it to his rich friends, helping to build out the border wall, increasing funding for the police and surveillance state...
All that work aint easy.
DancingBear
in reply to piefood • • •RedPandaRaider
in reply to HenriVolney • • •jUzzo6 [none/use name]
in reply to jackeroni • • •like this
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crankyrebel
in reply to jUzzo6 [none/use name] • • •Zerush
in reply to jackeroni • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to jackeroni • • •like this
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zbyte64
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •小莱卡
in reply to zbyte64 • • •Biden also implemented tariffs to China tho.
Neoliberalism shouldn't be seen as a doctrine but as a stage of capitalism, in which policies are shaped by the current context, with the intention of mantaining the current status quo. Free trade made sense for imperialist core countries because its industries were much ahead than the rest of the world, thus free trade made it easier to conquer international markets. Now that China has caught up, free trade fundamentalism is no longer the correct strategy.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to zbyte64 • • •don't like this
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kreskin
in reply to zbyte64 • • •Well...Do they though? On that pesky genocide (sorry I forgot--lets not call it 'genocide', right, that makes dems queasy-- how about we just say some people seem to have dropped dead), Bidens pretend "push back" and "negotiations" and "red lines" and "plans to build a dock to get food in and then hand it to the Israelis just like every single other land border crossing" all show that the dem centrists are simply mercenaries paid by zionists. mercenaries who take the time to put up some theatre for their evil so people dont have to acknowledge it, but the exact same outcomes happen either way. Most of the deaths and most of the building demolitions happened under Biden. When you and I start trying to parse if it was slightly faster under Trump, aren't we missing the point?
We lost Roe under Biden, who famously never supported a womans right to choose until right before he got tapped to be VP. Strange coincidence?
Appointing Merrick Garland as AG and then pretending to be powerless while Garland proceeded to lean right and sit on his hands for 4 entire years is another example. As is cracking down on free speech. And what did Biden do in the wake of all the police murders that the defund and reallocate movement brought to his door? He said explicitly that he didnt agree with the massive movement on the left, and shut it down, actually increasing police funding as an extra "eff you" to the dem voters. Same as a republican would. Wheres this imagined difference?
And Biden famously told rooms full of rich donors at the end of Trumps term that "nothing would fundamentally change" (from Trump's first term) under him. This emncapsulates this whole discussion perfectly. Biden swearing to the rich that nothing will change, while pretending to run on change.
This is the same Biden who shut down a rail strike, and then slowly over time negotiated a tiny fraction of what the strikers wanted, and then called it a victory on their behalf-- and then had the effing gall to walk a picket line for a photo op so his surrogates could trumpet how union-friendly he was.
theguardian.com/commentisfree/…
Same Biden who during his term bragged about being harder on immigration than Trump ever had been-- and wore it like a badge of honor that he'd "closed the southern border".
jacobin.com/2024/06/biden-asyl…
Today centrist dems wont even admit there was ever any problem. So I guess you'd say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
Biden just knifed labor unions in the back. They shouldn’t forget it
Hamilton Nolan (The Guardian)zbyte64
in reply to kreskin • • •My brother in Christ, you're not talking to a liberal here.
kreskin
in reply to zbyte64 • • •bennypr0fane
in reply to jackeroni • • •tired_n_bored
in reply to bennypr0fane • • •小莱卡
in reply to bennypr0fane • • •humanspiral
in reply to jackeroni • • •DNC is a huge problem with America as was Biden/Garland. They need/needed Trump to not fall out of a window, or be in military jail, in order for the most warmongering neocon DNC candidates to ensure warmongering. After Oct 7th, DNC's Israel first "job is to gaslight the left into supporting Israel", meant ensuring Trump's win, and today, have their elected Zionist supremacists, repeat attacks of communism on Mamdani.
On global warming, forcing a proxy war on Russia, not only enriches domestic oil companies to fund climate denial. pushing global diesel (home heating fuel same fraction) refining capacity to limit, with massive emissions from war, it also means no cooperation with Russia possible on global warming. It is simply impossible to prioritize human sustainability, if voters are made to support war, while struggling with the economic collapse directly accelerated by it, not to mention cultural divisiveness issues (not DNC/Biden fault).
The US needs either a military coup, or candidates/party that will remove citizenship and assets of Zionist oligarchy influencing US rulership. If money is speech, then money is terrorism.
ZILtoid1991
in reply to jackeroni • • •Let me guess, your preferred form of government is "petty dictator killing people for not following the same exact lifestyle as he wants, but virtue signals to communism".
Awkwardparticle
in reply to jackeroni • • •don't like this
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ShotDonkey
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •Reddfugee42
in reply to ShotDonkey • • •kadu
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •And why exactly isn't this other party, so different, doing anything to prevent that?
Could it be because you have only two viable parties and they're nearly identical, thus having no actual opposition that could overcome abuses by the dominant party at any given point in time? Something other countries have a lot of experience with?
Bloomcole
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comm…
Reddfugee42
in reply to Bloomcole • • •don't like this
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Bloomcole
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •I guess that's the best you can come up with.
So glad Trump won and is helping the demise of your banana republic, you all deserve it, no one worth saving in that afwul country.
Dumbest bunch on the planet
KatakiY
in reply to Bloomcole • • •I agreed with you about the actual issue but wtf. You do realize the United States has 340 million people and lager that whatever country you likely love in, right? There are many diverse political postions here, but you won't see them in our duopoly...
Like yeah the Dems played a roll in funding and using the police state. They want itm they love West wing TV style politics where they think they are the good guys and can't critically consider any positive future and therefore end up being shit libs at best.
The republicans actively want to kill everyone for profit.
Bloomcole
in reply to KatakiY • • •Maybe there's a handful of real left people at best.
Pragmatically it's reasonable collateral dammage.
The US causes millions of deaths and misery in the world.
All they are concerned about and cry over now is that they get a small taste of what they do in other places.
They don't deserve sympathy. Fuck em.
BrainInABox
in reply to KatakiY • • •HiddenLayer555
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •Biden didn't shut down any of the ICE concentration camps Trump opened the last time he was president.
Also Guantanamo Bay has had bipartisan support since the beginning.
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •lmfao Obama vastly expanded the surveillance programs Bush started after 9/11 time.com/3909293/edward-snowde…
You're an ignoramus and you should be ashamed of yourself. End of fucking discussion.
BrainInABox
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •admin
in reply to BrainInABox • • •OsrsNeedsF2P
in reply to Awkwardparticle • • •Octagon9561
in reply to jackeroni • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn't given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They're not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Democrats seek to regulate said capital. The Overton window is too far right to have much effect.
Serving capital does not mean we're not a Democracy. Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
KatakiY
in reply to PastafARRian • • •No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don't actually want to regulate it. Yes they won't be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
PastafARRian
in reply to KatakiY • • •SinAdjetivos
in reply to PastafARRian • • •How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
PastafARRian
in reply to SinAdjetivos • • •😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That's the exact opposite of the Democrat's political ideology. I should say 1000x. I'll call it "orders of magnitude" instead.
So where did you get 1.98?
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Answer the question, genocide denier. How did you quantify 10x times? Or 1000x?
No, it's exactly Democrat political ideology.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •SinAdjetivos
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Public database of rich people spending money on disinformation tactics: opensecrets.org/elections-over…
Where do you get that idea?
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Unless that compromise is "don't commit genocide", then they'll happily abaondon the swing-state voters.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •No, they aren't.
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government's decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of 'democracy'.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The "Overton Window" has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
PastafARRian
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •There are no "democratic socialist" countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn't just "social programs," socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie's hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
Home Page - Party for Socialism and Liberation
PSLPastafARRian
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you're an actual socialist I'm gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don't believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It's a failed experiment that killed millions and it won't work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can't dock you.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don't call themselves socialist, because they aren't.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world's largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not "kill millions of people," in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You'd do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
PastafARRian
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Unlikely but nice try anyways and your arguments are coherent and civil so I appreciate that. Your argument and debate skills are great too.
My belief is a smaller, more progressive one. Not saying violent revolution is off the table, but I don't think we're anywhere near it.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Well, I appreciate the complement, but I do want to point out that the longer you hold onto the idea that we can vote for a better world in a system designed to keep imperialism running for as long as possible, the longer you'll be walking around with your hands tied doing exactly what the ruling class wants you to do.
Here's an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list if you ever want to start reading theory.
Cowbee [he/they]
2024-11-12 13:19:57
PastafARRian
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Resonosity
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Resonosity • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Better give the USA back to the British Crown then, dumb-ass.
𝕛𝕨𝕞-𝕕𝕖𝕧
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! ~make~ it stop...
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to 𝕛𝕨𝕞-𝕕𝕖𝕧 • • •Hey, seems like a good enough reason to start looking into Marxist-Leninist theory as any! 😉
Cowbee [he/they]
2024-11-12 13:19:57
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •And the other side commits genocide. It also overthrows other people's democracy, but you don't consider foreigners human.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •inss.org.il/publication/democr…
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That's not what I would call "committing genocide". What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not. That's not supporting genocide. We're fighting, but losing.
Danger Zone: Collapsing Support for Israel Among Democrats | INSS
INSSBrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Committing genocide is committing genocide. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Then you had your eyes closed for all of 2024
Genocide denier
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Ok, I'll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it:
"Are you in Gaza bypassing the blockade and delivering relief to the affected people right now?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don't even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •You people really cannot behave in good faith, can you?
Incoherent. But I guess I shouldn't expect more from a genocide apologist fuck like you.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Alright, let me return your argument again:
"I have nothing more to say to you, Nazi. Literally you're a white supremacist who thinks Jews and immigrants are subhuman. If I can't drive a false narrative, you're acting in bad faith!!!"
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Fascist child.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •No, actually they're all you.
See? I did it again. 🪞
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •InappropriateEmote [comrade/them, undecided]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Octagon9561:
PastaFARRian:
PastafARRian
in reply to InappropriateEmote [comrade/them, undecided] • • •mathemachristian[he]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to mathemachristian[he] • • •Alcoholicorn
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Alcoholicorn • • •They did. They were all pardoned by Trump. Trump would have been sent to prison if he didn't win the election. Our Democracy is working, it reflects the idiocy of over half our population who voted for everyone to jump off a cliff.
When I walk around, over half the people I talk to support Trump. The other half is actively fighting against it. That's not support. We're merely losing.
Alcoholicorn
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Trump would never have had the chance if Biden elected an AG who didn't spend 4 years fucking around.
Its a shame the democrats dont represent those people and chose not to dismantle Trump's ICE and instead tried to work with republicans.
PastafARRian
in reply to Alcoholicorn • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Rather, I'm arguing against "enlightened centrism". Both sides are not the same at all, there is one party clearly better than the other. Not defending the US in general. But if everyone voted Democrat our problems would be greatly improved.
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party. If everyone voted for the second party, they'd eventually be able to pitch reducing the number of slaves. But they can't because half the country is Nazis. It's a dirty game but it's one worth playing, even if we use protests and other tools as well.
Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Your instance has been very supportive of 'enlightened centrism' when it comes to colonialism vs anti-colonialism. Let's hope that you are, in fact, opposed to that.
However, the opposition to both of the parties is not a case of 'enlightened centrism'. They are literally both right-wing genocidal factions of rulers of NATO.
In the case of USian ruling factions, the difference is just PR. And, maybe, competence in conducting genocides, invasions, and other colonialist activities.
Considering that the current administration has seemingly been making decisions that have been harmful to NATO's ability to invade the rest of the world in the long term, it seems that the party that currently holds more power is the better one.
How?
Both of the parties are for doubling the slaves and for conducting genocides. The currently dominant one seems to be less competent when it comes to achieving those goals.
Much more than that - almost all USians were in favour of invading Iraq, and I find it likely that not much has changed.
Either way, both of those parties are at least almost completely nazi.
Why? Electoralist efforts have evidently not achieved much throughout their existence. It's time to accept reality.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •I don't know what my instance believes, nor do I care.
I wouldn't argue against opposing both parties, or the US in general. I'm American and I choose to vote for the party that seems substantially better. Voting correctly is important, but not enough.
Voting Republican caused Ukraine to lose its funding. I don't side with any genocide that NATO commits but don't forget it also protects billions of people. The game is dirty and imperfect but we should still play it to survive.
Democrat policies reduce wealth inequality, which Republican ones increase it.
All Nazis are Republicans. Few to none are Democrats.
Basically none of your arguments are rooted in truth, even slightly. I doubt you will be convinced of what I'm saying.
Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Has voting ever produced any sort of serious effect in the US?
Meaning that the state of Ukraine will have less of a reason and less of an ability to avoid peace negotiations to stop the bloodshed. This is good.
It literally does the opposite. It's a colonial empire that is conducting a genocide right now and that has been invading everywhere in the world to keep billions of people in a colonial yoke. It only defends colonial metropoles and settler-colonies from justice.
Furthermore, at most, it 'protects' about a billion of people, and not 'billions'.
They are almost all nazis. Even if one cares about electoralism, almost all Dems who could voted against reduction of military support for Pissrael.
It's not really arguable that at least almost all Dems are in favour of genocides and invasions - like the ones into Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan.
Except for all of them.
Notably, you couldn't even provide examples of non-nazi Dems, and lied about NATO protecting billions of people and keep lying about voting being important despite having nothing to show for it.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •You're the most bad faith genocide apologist. That makes your worse and I win. Most is worse than least.
See? I can drive a false narrative too. It's easy. Just remove the gray. All black and white. 2 colors is easier than a spectrum. Keep working on those debate skills kiddo.
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Fascist child.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Nope I win the argument. Whoever gets the last word in wins the argument. Now I'm closing my eyes so you can't get the last argument. I can't hear you!!! Naaa naa na naaa.
Sorry thought I'd debate on your level for a bit.
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Well, I'm not the one who is supporting nazis. You, on the other hand, have been insistent that half of your governing nazis are not nazis.
Notably, I never said anything against either of those groups (whom both Dems and Reps have been acting against, with both of Obama's terms being the most ICE-happy time period), but it's pretty evident from your reaction that you think that being against a Lebensraum-style genocide must mean that I'm opposed to some ethnic group.
You are in favour of displacing and killing Palestinians, aren't you?
This is silly and very backwards.
You have literally been arguing about how the blue brand of white supremacists in your government is awesome, and how NATO - the organisation dedicated to white supremacist colonialism - is great.
EDIT: Also, what are the blue-brand white supremacists that are non-nazis that you can name?
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Firstly, still waiting for you to name any of the non-nazi Dems. Do you have at least five names?
Secondly, if you think that I mischaracterised your arguments, can you point to any such mischaracterisations?
Have you not argued that NATO - the world's most prolific aggressor and the world's premier white supremacist polity - is somehow good?
Have you not argued that voting is somehow important in the US despite having produced no results to speak of throughout its history?
Have you not implied that the Lebensraum in Palestine should not be stopped and that the homes and land should not be given back to their rightful owners?
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •You have several grammar and spelling mistakes in your post. Since part of you is imperfect, all of you is imperfect and therefore your argument that you yourself are "good" is irrelevant. Can you name at least five good things you've done? Still waiting.
Have you not argued that tomatoes are vegetables?
If you can think of any, and I mean ANY mischaracterizations I've made about anything you've said I'm absolutely eager to hear them.
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Your an Uber white supremacist 5th grader who doesn't even know how to back their claims. I'm older and less racist than you so I win the argument by default.
Again, literally just returning your serve. My beliefs do not reflect that argument. Just holding up a mirror as you're talking to me.
Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Ah yes, being opposed to literal European colonialism and genocides by European settler-colonists of non-white people means that one is an 'Uber white supremacist'. /s
Given that I have a much greater grasp on, among other things, history of your empire, that would just mean that you are less well-educated than a 5th grader.
I have already pointed to particular cases of your empire invading and committing genocides, I have pointed out that voting has been a useless endeavour, that you can't even name 5 non-nazi Dems (despite almost none of the Dems being nazis, according to you). I keep backing my claims up with evidence, while you keep engaging in slinging baseless accusations.
Yeah, it is evident that you can't answer the relevant questions without having to explicitly admit to your white supremacist views.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Horse {they/them}
in reply to PastafARRian • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •I do, including with regards to the history of your white supremacist empire that is in the process of carrying out a high-profile genocide.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Horse {they/them}
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •I avoided pointing out your grammar mistakes (like when you couldn't figure out the difference between 'All nazis are Republicans' instead of 'All Republicans are nazis') as a courtesy. But sure, what grammar/spelling mistakes do you think I have made?
Hahaha.
Are you seriously equating me supposedly making grammar mistakes with your empire intentionally engaging in invasions, genocides, torture, colonialism, etc. against most of the world?
Firstly, if almost none of the Dems are nazis, you should have no trouble mentioning five of them.
Secondly, you don't get to ask a question and then immediately go 'still waiting'. This question is obviously just a deflection by you.
Thirdly, I can say that, at least, I have not been engaging in white supremacy and genocide apologia, which is more than can be said about you.
No, and especially not in this conversation.
Considering that you are not giving negatory responses to the relevant questions, we can conclude that you did argue so, and that I did not mischaracterise you.
I have not brought up you mischaracterising what I have said. You did claim that I mischaracterise you. Considering that you can't point to any such mischaracterisations, we can conclude that that was a lie.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •You aren't, as asking me superficially similar questions doesn't actually produce the same arguments. My questions can only serve as arguments due to you making relevant accusations and denials.
That and the fact that you literally tried to equate making grammar mistakes with your empire carrying out a literal genocide.
It's pretty obvious that you can't name even 5 non-nazi Dems, can't point to any good effects gained through voting in the US, can't point to any mistakes that I have made, and you are overwhelmingly likely in favour of the Lebensraum against the Palestinian people.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •I keep responding to you almost sentence-by-sentence, and I have prompted you to answer a few rather simple questions.
It's pretty obvious that the issue is not me supposedly not listening, but you being unable to answer those questions without explicitly outing yourself as a white supremacist.
PastafARRian
in reply to Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them] • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Absolutely soulless people.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Are you over in Gaza right now, attempting to bypass the blockade and deliver relief to the individuals who suffer?
If not, can you prove you're not soulless?
BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Yeah, and to do that you've had to engage in outright genocide denial.
PastafARRian
in reply to BrainInABox • • •QuietCupcake [any, they/them]
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Then you're a fucking slavery-defending piece of shit who John Brown would have rightfully shot. You don't have to support slavery at all, you know. You could even say "Slavery is wrong, full stop." And then go on to do whatever is in your power to tear down any group that advocates for that grotesque abuse and denial of even the most basic human decency. But instead you insist on carrying bucket after bucket after bucket of water for the fucking slavers who are blatantly grifting you with their detestable bullshit of "at least I'm not that bad" as they point at another fucking slaver.
You people are so brainwashed into this absurd binary thinking it is genuinely shocking to me the atrocious shit that squirts out of your mouths that you think is fucking reasonable!
AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Reddfugee42
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •kreskin
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •blockheadjt
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •Saleh
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Honestly not much changed for me. I wasnt interested in travelling to the US. I am not interested in buying or selling product in the US.
However i wake up every morning to yet another stream of people being brutally murdered by the US or with US support through US allies. My country keeps hosting a drone relay station integral to US murder programs in the Middle East and everyone in politics pretends this to be okay and the US soldiers stationed here to be totally for our safety and as not being quasi occupied and serving as a logistics hub for invasions, mass murder and genocide.
Another issue i care about is child rapists not getting away with their crimes. Turns out the US administrations of two Republicans and two Democrats have been covering up a child rapist ring involving thousands of victims and probably as many perpetraitors, with a former D and a current R president among the rapists.
My country is quasi occupied by a natiom of child rapists and there is reason to believe they rape here too, as the US soldiers are knowm for that.
kreskin
in reply to blockheadjt • • •blockheadjt
in reply to kreskin • • •AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Who are you crediting with 'no concentration camp' here? The party that performatively cried outside of one and then ignored it when they were in power?
Are you SERIOUSLY pretending the democrats aren't complicit in 'child rapist'??
kreskin
in reply to blockheadjt • • •BrainInABox
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Grapho
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Basic Glitch
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Seriously, this is the kind of bullshit that swings so far left it circles back to right.
The goal of this administration is to remove existing government institutions and replace them with far right traditionalist based institutions that the creator of the Heritage Foundation (Paul Weyrich) began writing about ~1999.
The people that created the term "cultural marxism," want you to believe this stupid both sides are essentially the same shit so you're less resistant to them dismantling the parts of government that people had to fight very hard for. Voters rights, civil rights, and civil liberties have always been under attack by this same group of people. Now you've got this dumbass propaganda telling people that since those rights have always been under attack, you might as well just assume it won't matter if they cease to exist.
"I don't want everybody to vote... As a matter of fact, our leverage in the election quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
-Paul Weyrich
Letter to Conservatives by Paul M. Weyrich - The National Center
The National Centerblockheadjt
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •Basic Glitch
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Apologies for the facts and documented history you don't want to hear 🤷♀️
I know Project 2025 hasn't been brought up nonstop over the last year or anything, but if you can somehow imagine a publicly available document laying all this shit out point by point, it might help you understand where I'm coming from.
dxdydz
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •BrainInABox
in reply to dxdydz • • •Lol, typical american liberal "systemic extermination is fine so long as it's not being done to MEEEE"
Grapho
in reply to BrainInABox • • •starman2112
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •Grapho
in reply to starman2112 • • •Both of them want to kill you and your friends. One is just stupid/racist enough that they're willing to do away with your labor power ASAP while the other would rather let their billionaire masters squeeze every penny out of you in debt peonage for the rest of your life (hopefully less than 65 years).
However, I'm far less interested in what they want to do to other gringos than the fact that they've been workshopping even worse than this brutality on the rest of us for centuries and y'all were okay with it. You'd continue to be okay with it if there wasn't a dang Cheeto in the white house or whatever the fuck.
starman2112
in reply to Grapho • • •Let me rephrase: one of them is willing to let me and my friends die because they're more interested in making money than providing for our needs, and one of them wants to shoot us in the fucking heads for being queer. But yeah the ones who hate us for being queer aren't actually worse than the ones who simply don't care about us
They also want to shoot you in the head for not being white. But yeah, no worse than the ones who simply don't care about your wellbeing. In fact, the latter deserves even more of your ire, for some reason
Jentu
in reply to starman2112 • • •Grapho
in reply to starman2112 • • •BrainInABox
in reply to starman2112 • • •"Sure, they may be committing a modern Holocaust, but what about MEEEEEEE"
Western liberals are the most self centred people alive, you literally don't see foreigners as real people.
starman2112
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Meeeeee, and also all of the other non-cishets, non-whites, and non-men
You're right though, western liberals are the worst. I'm going to take your advice and become a western conservative, and will be doing my best to actively hurt people, because you think it's better when American women and gays and nonwhites die than when they don't
BrainInABox
in reply to starman2112 • • •Once again, we are reminded that western liberals literally don't conceptualise foreigners as real people.
By all means, the difference is entirely performative; conservatives are just more honest about it.
uniquethrowagay
in reply to Octagon9561 • • •The Democratic Party is somewhat conservative and stand firmly behind capitalism. But they aren't fascists. Not at all.
Grapho
in reply to uniquethrowagay • • •Uhhhhh yes they are lmao. They just have an insignificantly smaller out group. They consider the rest of the world fair game for death camps, torture, starvation, and everything else Republicans do, and they even agree with most of their most fascist shit (like the children in cages and the Patriot Act, which were not only not stopped but expanded with Dems at the helm).
They just think gay people and people of color are a sizeable demographic, but not sizeable enough to stop the violence against them, just kind of pretend they're the only allies.
They keep doing that because idiots keep buying it. I don't think Mussolini would have been much better if he copped black slang for his propaganda material and was ok with gay people in the military.
HiddenLychee
in reply to jackeroni • • •scott
in reply to HiddenLychee • • •HiddenLychee
in reply to scott • • •HiddenLayer555
in reply to HiddenLychee • • •BrainInABox
in reply to HiddenLychee • • •freddydunningkruger
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to freddydunningkruger • • •diffusive
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to diffusive • • •freddydunningkruger
in reply to BrainInABox • • •What a stupid comment. It's REALISM. I am either going to vote Republican, Democrat, or not vote at all (same as voting third party).
Which one of these choices do you think makes the world a better place?
BrainInABox
in reply to freddydunningkruger • • •piefood
in reply to BrainInABox • • •Don't forget sending people to torture camps, or bombing kids, or expanding the systems that the current fascist government is using.
The Democrats do so much more than just helping out with genocide!
blockheadjt
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to blockheadjt • • •Bronstein_Tardigrade
in reply to HiddenLychee • • •SinAdjetivos
in reply to HiddenLychee • • •They did though, through the creation and expansion of the secure communities program.. It was attempted to be walked back via the PEP after Obama earned the "deporter in chief" moniker, but yes the DNC did, has and will continue to do so.
Their style is usually more "don't make a scene" then "suns out, guns out" but the end result is ultimately the same.
US policy
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)PastafARRian
in reply to jackeroni • • •Reddfugee42
in reply to PastafARRian • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
PastafARRian
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •MoonMelon
in reply to PastafARRian • • •I think Americans can perceive how fucked up and corrupt their government is but they lack any theoretical analysis to determine the nature of it. So all they have is a general perception that the government doesn't work for them and that creates an inherent distrust of any government program, no matter what it does.
So an American might believe that universal healthcare is a good policy, but they also believe that in practice if such a policy were enacted it would mean that money being siphoned off by the ultra rich, with nothing fundamentally changing. They would be paying the taxes of a universal healthcare state, but the actual system would continue as-is, and they would still need to pay ridiculous prices. Thus getting double-dicked for no benefit.
The thing is this is probable. Section 8 is a massive subsidy to landlords. The ACA is a massive subsidy to insurance companies. But if you asked Americans why this keeps happening they would just spout some nonsense about R's and D's, or some particular politician, or whatever.
This cynicism spans both "blue" and "red" America. I think it's the heart of the rot in our society. It's not really a society at all in the sense that people have lost the belief that we, collectively, can work together to achieve more than what's possible working alone. When that breaks the only motive people still believe in is the extractive motive of corporations. They believe that only the rich can make things happen, and thus are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by electing venal politicians who believe the same.
Obviously I'm generalizing here, but just an undercurrent I've observed. It's not coherent, but it is consistent across the "spectrum" of American politics. This ultra wealthy magnify this narrative since it suits them.
Reddfugee42
in reply to jackeroni • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •‘We Have No Coherent Message’: Democrats Struggle to Oppose Trump
Democrats are self-critical of their inability to take positions distinct from their Republican colleagues without splintering off conservative support? Democrats must be right-wingers.
UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •Its almost like First-past-the-post voting artificially limits the number of viable political parties to two and should be replaced immediately.
At the very least, you would think democracy advocates in the democratic party would be falling over each other to implement such a much needed reform of our voting systems in the blue states they control. Democrats themselves admit non stop that First-past-the-post voting is a huge problem every election when they screech about the small numbers of 3rd party voters. Democrars publicly admit they know the voting system is broken, yet FPTP remains in use in the vast majority of the country.
How can you be so upset about a recurring problem and then do nothing to resolve it? There is no excuse. The democrats want to hold your vote hostage and they are using the republican party to threaten you to do it. While they may not be exactly the same as the republicans, they are a part of the problem with our country.
The democratic party must lose its monopoly on resisting the republicans. We should have a free market of ideas competing with each other. We could have multiple chances to defeat the republicans every election We may one day be free to vote how we want.
::: spoiler Electoral Reform Videos
(What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
STAR voting
Ranked Choice voting
Single Transferable Vote
:::
UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •Arguably limits viable parties to One. Quite a few states are functionally single party oligarchies, thanks to winner-take-all election results. States that split 55/45 by party affiliation will routinely have legislatures that are closer to 70/30 by representative. And control of statewide office typically means a single party veto even when the legislature is split.
It's a big, systemic problem that requires a large coordinated professionalized opposition to change. And that means organized manpower, large amounts of money/resources, and an ideologically committed media apparatus to help coordinate the reform effort.
When we've got none of the above? And, even worse, an incumbent party system dedicated to resisting any kind of reform (often violently), building that kind of organization is incredibly difficult.
I can't imagine how a more fractured and adversarial constellation of movements would benefit us.
We need a coalition that's collaborative, not a marketplace of minor opposition parties that's fighting for vote share.
The whole appeal of Ranked Choice is that candidates aren't competing with one another in a market for vote-share. They can collaborate - as Mamdani and Lander did - towards a commonly shared policy goal.
Jankatarch
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •"Would you rather the oceans die or the trees die."
"Hitler"
admin
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •muusemuuse
in reply to admin • • •kreskin
in reply to muusemuuse • • •outhouseperilous
in reply to admin • • •skisnow
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •Saleh
in reply to skisnow • • •kreskin
in reply to skisnow • • •dont forget to donate!
/s
mfed1122
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •outhouseperilous
in reply to mfed1122 • • •outhouseperilous
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •No. Just dont vote red or blue.
Or 'centrist' 'independent whos actually fasch.
MiddleAgesModem
in reply to jackeroni • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to MiddleAgesModem • • •MiddleAgesModem
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •I regret using offensive language. But there is NO rational argument that there's no difference between. It's just an indefensible statement. The differences are extremely apparent. If people don't know that, it's not because its untrue, it's because they're ignorant.
For the love of god, it is night and day between Biden and Trump.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to MiddleAgesModem • • •Zephorah
in reply to jackeroni • • •I would support a better version of this.
Deficit is a major piece. They talk about it and then invariably increase it every time.
RNC lowers taxes, technically, but only ever in a way that hurts working class. DNC leave it all as is, never changing the bottom line.
First draft meme, here.
Bronstein_Tardigrade
in reply to jackeroni • • •melsaskca
in reply to jackeroni • • •TimewornTraveler
in reply to jackeroni • • •add gay vs god to the outsides
maybe something on immigration and racism
Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]
in reply to TimewornTraveler • • •That goes in the intersection.
HugeNerd
in reply to jackeroni • • •JargonWagon
in reply to HugeNerd • • •Lushed_Lungfish
in reply to jackeroni • • •Kinperor
in reply to Lushed_Lungfish • • •The US plans some of their invasion/regime change over the course of years if not decades.
I honestly believe that Trump was briefed on some plans to annex Greenland, Canada and Panama, and the fucking buffoon let the cat out of the bag.
I have something like 57% certainty that democrats would eventually start denouncing "fentanyl labs" in Canada and create excuses for invasion.
edit: Worth noting, by the way, that's it's a consensus that Canada is more liberal than the US. Having Canada as a 51st state would essentially be handling the Dems a huge advantage for all elections going forward... Gee golly, I wonder whether they might actually root for Don a little bit, there.
Rob Bos
in reply to Kinperor • • •Having us as one state - jamming Quebec, BC, Ontario, etc all together would be a recipe for disaster above and beyond all the other disasters involved. It would be like, I don't know, merging New York and Georgia into one state.
The FLQ alone would instantly revive and start up their bombing campaigns again.
And be real, they would never give us status as states. We'd be Puerto Rico North at best until the violence died down in a century of terrorism and genocide.
Kinperor
in reply to Rob Bos • • •The American elites are not above fostering a state of crisis and chaos. The BLM riots happened under Biden's administration. Biden had deportation camps. Look at current day USA.
These "disasters" are not the deterrent you think it is.
Being "real" would be admitting that the US empire is on the verge of collapses. I think decades of continuation is
possible, but unlikely. Century? Impossible (at least, for the current statu quo).
Mustakrakish
in reply to Lushed_Lungfish • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Lushed_Lungfish • • •Basic Glitch
in reply to jackeroni • • •Some stuff about Alligator Alcatraz...
Some stuff about hooking a brain dead pregnant woman up to life support to be kept alive like a science experiment and forced to give birth...
Some stuff about dismantling of government institutions like the department of education...
Some stuff about closing the civil rights office that was created in response to the patriot act...
Some stuff about not being sure if we have to follow habeas corpus...
Ya I could totally see how both sides are essentially the same...
technocrit
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •Basic Glitch
in reply to technocrit • • •I recommend this book bc you seem to be misunderstanding or ignoring the history that led us to this point.
The Radical Mind: The Origins of Right-Wing Catholic and Protestant Coalition Building
Funny how the same prefigurative traditionalism and claims about victimhood/attacks on traditional values can be seen in far right leaders across the globe, but nobody ever seems to point out the similarities.
Book Details - University Press of Kansas
University Press of KansasAntiOutsideAktion
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •If we're doing condescending book recommendations, here's one that's actually relevant to the topic:
goodreads.com/book/show/256660…
If being perceived as intelligent is so important to you, how about you take a step back and perceive the conversation you're inserting yourself into? The argument you're addressing is that democrats are too similar to republicans. You're replying to someone arguing that democrats are complicit in your list of 'republicans bad' with the idiosyncrasies of republican ideological superstructure. It's a complete red herring. If you're going to respond, respond on topic. And if you're going to act stupid don't be condescending.
Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of…
GoodreadsBasic Glitch
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •I wasn't being condescending, just recommending a book about the history behind the modern Republican party. Tracing the history behind how a modern Christian right movement was created should be more than enough evidence about why the two parties being equivalent is false.
That's the entire point of recommending the book, and the term "prefigurative traditionalism" is taken directly from the book I recommended, not my attempt to "sound smart."
𝕛𝕨𝕞-𝕕𝕖𝕧
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •that’s neat and all but it doesn’t respond to or subvert technocrit and his point in any real way.
he’s not making an argument about the origin of our current system, he’s claiming that the status quo is upheld equally by both democrats and republicans who work together to prevent change or radical politics from ever emerging in the american political psyche.
i think everyone is pointing out these similarities. somewhat ironically, i think someone like technocrit is pointing out more important similarities than someone like you who is drawing an imaginary line in the sand. regardless, the whole world is talking about the rising tide of fascism and i think it says more about you than the world or global discourse that you’d posit nobody is talking about it, bc people certainly are. it’s all we’ve talked about for 5-10 years - across the entire west and more.
i think what you’re actually noticing or upset about is that nobody seems to do anything about it…
Basic Glitch
in reply to 𝕛𝕨𝕞-𝕕𝕖𝕧 • • •The history that led us here should be pretty convincing evidence as to why the argument both sides are equivalent or working together is false. Only one side has ever promoted voter suppression and roll backs of protections for rights, and equality, and a desire to return to "traditional values." The U.S. history behind all of this and the creation of a moral majority, which at its core is a desire to protect and enforce white male supremacy, can be traced back to the individuals that created the Heritage Foundation.
It's fair to say the strategy the Dems have used (trying to appease moderates out of fear of losing them to the right) is a bad one bc they don't seem to understand what they're actually working against, and it also plays into the false narrative of the right as somehow being a victim to a "cultural war."
My point about victimhood being shared by fascists globally, is that there seems to be more evidence of far right leaders using the same strategies and working together globally against democracy vs there being any evidence that the modern two party system is a result of Dems working with Republicans or both sides being equivalent.
But thanks so much for explaining to me what I'm awckshully noticing.
Mustakrakish
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •History has shown Dems to be playing the role of wolf in sheeps clothings for over a century lmao, what are you talking about? Even the "New Deal" of FDR was actually used to placate the actual demands of the labor movement, after he promised to help if they campaigned for him, and then turned around and outlawed their strikes and busted them when he got in office. From Obama promising to close GitMo but actually accelerating it and the use of drone strikes, Biden letting Roe V Wade be overturned despite Dems for decades running on codifying it, hell even Bill Clinton is resposible for the implementation of private prisons to basically make slavery legal again.
Dems are not your friends. Sure MAGA is the BBEG, but Dems are all the henchmen with different colored shirts you need to fight on the way. They enable and support the BBEG. Sure one is worse, but the other one is still trying to fuck you over too, they're not your ally. And to realize that none of the parties are here for you is a scary thought, and many people want to desperatley push it away for the safe and comfortable thought that you have a champion to fight for you and you're not alone. Well you're not alone, but its not the Dems by your side, it's the other workers. And unfortunatley that means you'll have to get your hands dirty directly, but turning away from the truth won't make it easier.
Basic Glitch
in reply to Mustakrakish • • •These are called politicians. They are humans like anyone else and they should never be placed on a pedestal or treated like they're above criticism for being on your team.
The both sides are the same argument denies the reality that voting in your best interest and gaining incremental progress for society is a better alternative than sitting by while the world burns around you.
Saving your support for an infallible leader who checks all your boxes, gains power and rescues society while somehow appeasing the majority and yet never compromising or screwing up something important, is a fantasy at best.
A government is composed of people. People are flawed. If you're looking to flawed people to create your ideal society rather than strategizing how to do the best you can with what you have in front of you/working towards an improved future, you're going to be spinning your wheels for all eternity waiting to be rescued.
Out of curiosity though, what is your ideal government/who is your ideal leader, worthy of your support? Who can you point to as an example of "that person/government that got it all right, and if we could just have a government or politicians more like them, everything would work itself out."
Edit: Surely somebody must come to mind? Bc if not this whole post kinda seems like a lot of bullshit
Mustakrakish
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •Then stop doing that. You have to hold them on a pedestal to even consider them on your team, since their actions speak much louder than words
You fundamentally misunderstand. What you are arguing for is sitting around while the world burns, while feeling like you did your part for merely voting. What I'm saying is that voting is not enough, especially when the people you have to vote for don't actually want to make things better, and even under their control shit gets incrementally worse, not better. So sitting around and just handing your vote to the people who aren't helping, especially when they know they'll get your vote just for being slightly better than the other guy, is actually doing less than nothing. Politicians have to earn your vote, thats the foubdation of democracy. When politicians don't have to earn your vote because you'll vote for them by default, they're not actually concerned with doing anything for the voters. That's not Democracy.
Thats a huge straw man. Just because all options are currently fucked and not worth standing with doesn't mean you need an infalliable one to be acceptable. Just that the current ones are far below acceptable.
"I don't want to eat either entrees you brought me, because they're both piles of dog shit, even if one is filled with razor blades." "Nothing's good enough for you man unless its a perfect 5 star 5 course meal and you're gonna starve unless you eat the dog shit". You see how absurd that thought process is? It comes from fear.
Not to mention that ELECTIONS AND POLITICIANS WILL NOT SAVE US. It's not about voting in just the right way, we have to go out and demand, its the only way rights have EVER been won. Voting is just scratching the surface of political activisim, but its treated like the be all end all and people use it as an excuse to not do the real work.
This one is what you're advocating for though, just voting for not only flawed people, but people working activley against you, all while sitting back like you did your part for checking a box on a ballot.
Yes your post does kinda seems like a lot of bullshit, but I'm still happy to take time to explain. There isn't an example yet, we need to demand better, that's my whole point. Merely voting in politicians and trusting them to fix everything isn't going to work, there's no winning that way. I dunno what goalpost shift you are attempting, but just beacuse I'm accuratley pointing out that our current system and represntation is far from actually working for the people doesn't mean I have to have a fully flushed out and perfect example of an alternate for my critisms to be valid. That's ironically what you were trying to accuse me of about "saving support for an infalliable leader", but is actually your projection.
PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Mustakrakish • • •Not to mention naming a fucking Truman VP when it was nearly certain FDR will die and war was won.
Grapho
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •Pretending that your horse with the blinders on view of history is just objective reality doesnt make it so nor does it absolve you from having evidence based positions. You can't just handwave proof your ridiculous statements by saying "history is evidence enough".
Lmao this is funny as fuck. PSL and the Green party got sued to hell and back by the Dems not a fuckin year ago to prevent them from being on several state ballots, an action that was probably coordinated with Republicans since they conveniently did not have overlapping lawsuits. Democrats passed the fucking Patriot act and it's extensions, Democrats passed the 90s crime bill.
You are still pretending rhetorical and strategic differences are just fundamentally unsurmountable divisions while outright denying the reality that these two parties approve of the same policies with their actions, and rarely do Democrats expend as much energy rolling back the most reactionary policies of the Reps as they do chiding leftists or demanding donations or passing bills in support of Zionism and the MIC.
Basic Glitch
in reply to Grapho • • •Yeah let's pretend the green party/Jill Stein doesn't intentionally promote propaganda or accept GOP bribes to split tickets. Or the fact that the European Greens recognized what Stein/the U.S. Green Party has turned into and literally begged her to drop out for the sake of democracy
And let's also pretend the democratic socialists party didn't recognize the PSL is also astroturfy and propaganda fueled as fuck...
They do have a right to be on the ballot even if it was just to intentionally split the vote in favor of the GOP and global oligarchs that provide their campaigns with financial support. So let's also pretend that the Democrats calling that shit out and using their establishment bank account to sue them, is the same as redrawing district lines and voter suppression tactics.
Who is the individual or government that actually passes your purity test? PSL and the American Green party?
The PSL Is Not A Vote for Class Independence - Left Voice
Nathaniel Flakin (Left Voice)Grapho
in reply to Basic Glitch • • •It's not antidemocratic to sue perfectly legal candidates bc you don't want anyone to vote for those people?
Scratch a liberal.
Basic Glitch
in reply to jackeroni • • •Some stuff about Alligator Alcatraz...
Some stuff about hooking a brain dead pregnant woman up to life support to be kept alive like a science experiment and forced to give birth...
Some stuff about dismantling of government institutions like the department of education...
Some stuff about closing the civil rights office that was created in response to the patriot act...
Some stuff about not being sure if we have to follow habeas corpus...
Ya I could totally see how both sides are essentially the same...
technocrit
in reply to jackeroni • • •"Which side are you on?"
The "two party" system is on the same side.
mavu
in reply to jackeroni • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to mavu • • •mavu
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Grapho
in reply to mavu • • •Oh, yeah, the firmly right wing belief that Republicans are working for the same policies as Dems. That's all I hear from GOP idiots, how much democrats are interchangeable with their preferred fascist and not at all pedophile communist trans terrorists.
Be fr.
mavu
in reply to Grapho • • •From the tone i gather that you don't agree with me?
Have a look at the picture again.
the graphic states that the 2 parties are 100% equal, except one is pro-life and one doesn't do anything against climate change.
This is anti democrat-party propaganda, well disguised as a funny picture.
Grapho
in reply to mavu • • •They are pretty much identical, the picture is factual.
Criticism of democrats isn't inherently right wing. Democrats are right wing themselves.
mavu
in reply to Grapho • • •piefood
in reply to mavu • • •mavu
in reply to piefood • • •I'm sure the democrats would have done the same thing, right?
piefood
in reply to mavu • • •I'm not happy, that's why I voted against him, and the politicians that enabled him. While I don't think the Democrats would have done the same thing, they would have continued building out his infrastructure (like they did last time), as well as continue bombing kids, backing a genocide, taking from the poor and working class and giving to the rich, etc etc....
You know, the things they claim to be better on, but aren't.
michaelmrose
in reply to jackeroni • • •The republicans just funded a gestapo force which is rounding up brown people (some of them citizens) to take them to concentration camps where some and probably soon all of them are going to start dying.
Recently an 82 year old legal permanent resident originally from Chile where he fled the horror story we kick started decades ago was nabbed whilst replacing his lost green card and is now on deaths door in Gautama where we left him to die on the street whilst lying to his family so they couldn't help him.
Please tell me this is the same as life under Obama.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to michaelmrose • • •michaelmrose
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Grapho
in reply to michaelmrose • • •Oh, so there were no children in cages under Obama, now? No deportations of asylum seekers?
This kind of delusional nonsense is why nobody can stand liberals. Y'all think your carefully cultivated ignorance means things just didn't happen even if there's ample proof for them.
michaelmrose
in reply to Grapho • • •Obama focused on recent unauthorized border crossers and people who were actually criminals whilst allowing lawful claims of asylum, protecting dreamers and those who would face harm at home and benignly ignoring long term people contributing. During his last year they spent $6B
Trump
As only around 12M actual illegal immigrants actually exist and its impossible in any reasonable length of time to deport even that number in any sane length of time we are going to fill concentration camps with millions of people more people than we have ever incarcerated. An operation of the size they contemplate run merely as slipshod as the one he is already running will inevitably snag innumerable American citizens who shall be sent to the camps alongside their immigrant neighbors.
Many citizens and immigrants are going to die. Die of violence. Die of sickness. Die of privation.
Does ANYTHING above sound like life under Obama? But by all means keep pushing the both sides narrative.
piefood
in reply to michaelmrose • • •aclu.org/news/immigrants-right…
Speed Over Fairness: Deportation Under the Obama Administration
Joanne Lin (American Civil Liberties Union)Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to michaelmrose • • •BrainInABox
in reply to michaelmrose • • •The Democrats also funded that gestapo force, of course.
michaelmrose
in reply to BrainInABox • • •legalunitedstates.com/which-se…
Same story in the house. Only republicans are fully and totally responsible for this.
Which Senators Voted for the Big Beautiful Bill? Full Breakdown of the Historic Senate Vote
Team of Legalunitedstates (legalunitedstates.com)BrainInABox
in reply to michaelmrose • • •michaelmrose
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to michaelmrose • • •So the Democrats did fund the gastapo force
Great to see Democrats have shifted so far right that they're defending pre-2025 ICE.
michaelmrose
in reply to BrainInABox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to michaelmrose • • •