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Are there any Linux distros that handle updates similarly to FreeBSD and OpenBSD?


Lately I've been exploring FreeBSD and OpenBSD. One of the more interesting things about them is how they handle OS and package upgrades.

On FreeBSD, the freebsd-update command is used for upgrading the OS and the pkg command is used for managing user packages. On OpenBSD, the syspatch command is used for upgrading the OS and the pkg_* commands are used for managing user packages.

Unlike Linux, these BSDs have a clear separation of OS from these packages. OS files and data are stored in places like /bin and /etc, while user installed packages get installed to /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/etc.

On the Linux side, the closest thing I can think of is using an atomic distro and flatpak, homebrew, containers, and/or snap for user package management. However, it's not always viable to use these formats. Flatpak, snap, and containers have sandbox issues that prevent certain functionality; homebrew is not sandboxed but on Linux its limited to CLI programs.

There's work being done to work around such issues, such as systemd sysext. But I'm starting to feel that this is just increasing complexity rather than addressing root problems. I feel like taking inspiration from the BSDs could be beneficial.

in reply to Leaflet

I think of those as BSD thoughtful and pondered, and Linux as fairly fast and maybe thoughtless (in the jouyful sense that things have to go forward). In the end BSD is definitely cleaner, but behind, and Linux is much messier but is at the front of what's going on.

And I'm sayin this as someone who's worked with both systems for decades and even though I prefer Linux on the desktop or on servers, on embedded systems, where you'd need some really clean code to poke at, BSD really shines.

Of course BSD works fine (mostly) everywhere. It's almost as good today as it was in 2000.

in reply to Leaflet

Alpine package manager and use of MUSL over glibc are pretty similar to a BSD. Like others have pointed out there are limits to how closely a Linux distro can match the deliberate structure of those distros given the different design philosophy





Is there a tablet with a laptop grade processor that will run Linux well?


I really want my primary mobile computer to be a tablet mainly because I genuinely like the form factor. My current Linux laptop is dying and I thought I'd just buy the newest Lenovo Thinkpad Surface clone but Lenovo seems to have discontinued it because I couldn't find a 2025 version anywhere, same with HP and Dell's Surface clones. And most of the Windows tablets I could find online have dinky Intel N processors instead of Core.

Can anyone recommend a high end tablet that runs Linux well? Failing that, how bad is the Surface really with Linux as the only OS?

in reply to HiddenLayer555

I bought a second hand surface pro 7 recently and I'm quite in love with it! With a few GNOME plugins it's a quite capable tablet AND a quite capable laptop on the go.
in reply to HiddenLayer555

I just went through this with Dell xps 2 in 1 and surface pro 8 with mint and other OSes. Linux just is not fully ready for touchscreen it's 90 percent there but for instance the last 10 percent is text boxes when clicking won't spawn the keyboard, the keyboard regardless of input app is clunky, not phone grade speed, it's possible but you my as well stick with a small 10 to 13 inch laptop. The folio is janky at best, using the slate solo is odd to hold and gets hot. Battery sucks. I tweaked and spent so much time wanting it to work. It just isn't ready yet.



Coming back full circle after 30 years.


Back in the early days of 1995, I picked up a Slackware CD from the computer shop I worked at in lieu of payment with no idea what it was or how to use it. This was my first foray into the world of Linux. From that point I used Linux off and on sporadically until I moved past the tinkering phase of college, watching the rise and fall of new technologies and better and better innovation, and just wanting things to work like I expected out of the box.

However, in the last few years I have stopped being excited about new innovation. Because with it comes not an exciting new world, but a plethora of subscription models, paywalls, data mining, and general enshitification that has become the norm in tech. Things have stopped working like I expect out of the box. In fact, I am having to actively twist and bend them to do what I want without compromising my privacy and my wallet.

Which leads me to present day and I decided to try throwing Ubuntu onto an ancient laptop headed to the scrap heap. It worked flawlessly right out of the box. With the addition of a little ram, I was able to set up a new media server running dockers, pihole and several other applications that would have taken me extensive time and money to get working like I wanted in a mainstream OS.

I found myself excited again about technology.

So last weekend I pulled up my daily driver gaming rig with the intention of shrinking down the pre-installed Windows operating system and trying Ubuntu there as my mainstream OS. Which is where I discovered that it was in fact not a single 2 TB drive inside, but a set of 1 TB drives configured in raid 0, taking up both M2 slots. So my fun little weekend project was once again thwarted by an off the shelf configuration that wasn't quite what it advertised.

It's just a roadblock to a journey that'll require a little more time and money to do safely, keeping the old drive intact while I migrate to something new and better. But that's okay. Storage is cheap and booting the try-out OS from a USB drive was exceeding my expectations.

I'm eager to move forward and see how Proton works in an environment where it can shine. I want to see how much open source software can replace the bloated and clunky OS on my current machine. I want to learn Python and move past the power shell knowledge I've had to build in the workforce.

See you all again real soon.

in reply to mwknight

Sounds great. Ubuntu works good out of the box. My only recommendation with Ubuntu is that instead of using 'Snap' checkout flatpak. Snap will update shit without your knowledge, or say so, and is 'closed'. Snap goes against the philosophy of a free and open system, where as flatpak does not. And flatpak provides just as many apps as Snap AFAIK.
in reply to mwknight

Back in the early days of 1995, I picked up a Slackware CD from the computer shop


Hit me right in the feels. Good times that. Honestly back then I chose Slackware because of the name haha.



How can one consume media these days with any sort of privacy?


With a privacy protecting setup, the mainstream internet is almost unusable. To sign up for social media or even a gmail account, one has to provide a phone number for verification. Youtube doesn't work when not signed into a Google account, or if one is connected to a VPN. Even downloader programs like yt-dlp and freyr have been rendered useless by the strict access controls of the major platforms. There is a vast amount of community, DIY, and educational material of all sorts behind these platform walls, so how can someone who doesn't want to be tracked access any of it these days?

There are alternatives like archive.org and peertube which are wonderful but have nowhere near the amount of content that people have been uploading to YouTube over the years. For example, if I need to fix a washing machine and there is a tutorial on YouTube, how can I see it while still preserving a modicum of privacy online?

in reply to fort_burp

Some sites also use canvas blocking as a metric to determine if you're a bot or not. Bit that wouldn't affect Freetube. Freetube is its own app, so I would check to see what it has under the API settings. It should fall back to the "local API" which is just your internet connection. The Invidious APIs rarely work for me anymore.


Google will require developer verification for Android apps outside the Play Store


cross-posted from: jlai.lu/post/24787719

Starting next year, Google will begin to verify the identities of developers distributing their apps on Android devices, not just those who distribute via the Play Store.




Google will require developer verification for Android apps outside the Play Store


Starting next year, Google will begin to verify the identities of developers distributing their apps on Android devices, not just those who distribute via the Play Store.



in reply to Mas

Is this just a signature check when installing? Could it be bypassed by getting your dev cert and just signing everything you want to install? Things like obtainium and fdroid could even have a "load your own cert" option and automate this.
in reply to Mas

Does this even effect GrapheneOS? Could they not use their own package installer by getting rid of the installer code?



US Wants Judge to Break Up Google, Force Sale of Chrome: Here's What to Know






The Fed Has Never Been Independent


While Donald Trump’s attacks on the Fed are deeply authoritarian, the institution itself is far from blameless. From the 2008 crash to the pandemic, its primary aim has been to protect the interests of the wealthy.




Open DVD player


Open DVD player #photography
Found this player in a closet and decided to test it.
As some buttons weren't working, tried opening it, and then taking a photo of the model to ask a technician.
It came out surprisingly aesthetic, me thinks.

in reply to silence7

"Doubt."

Oh, they mean lies. Right.

They're not challenging the science. They just don't like the conclusions.

Questa voce è stata modificata (3 giorni fa)


My mom and Dr. DeepSeek: In China and around the world, the sick and lonely turn to AI.


Every few months, my mother, a 57-year-old kidney transplant patient who lives in a small city in eastern China, embarks on a two-day journey to see her doctor. She fills her backpack with a change of clothes, a stack of medical reports, and a few boiled eggs to snack on. Then, she takes a 1.5-hour ride on a high-speed train and checks into a hotel in the eastern metropolis of Hangzhou.

At 7 a.m. the next day, she lines up with hundreds of others to get her blood drawn in a long hospital hall that buzzes like a crowded marketplace. In the afternoon, when the lab results arrive, she makes her way to a specialist’s clinic. She gets about three minutes with the doctor. Maybe five, if she’s lucky. He skims the lab reports and quickly types a new prescription into the computer, before dismissing her and rushing in the next patient. Then, my mother packs up and starts the long commute home.

DeepSeek treated her differently.

My mother began using China’s leading AI chatbot to diagnose her symptoms this past winter. She would lie down on her couch and open the app on her iPhone.

“Hi,” she said in her first message to the chatbot, on February 2.

“Hello! How can I assist you today?” the system responded instantly, adding a smiley emoji.

“What is causing high mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration?” she asked the bot in March.

“I pee more at night than during the day,” she told it in April.

“What can I do if my kidney is not well perfused?” she asked a few days later.

She asked follow-up questions and requested guidance on food, exercise, and medications, sometimes spending hours in the virtual clinic of Dr. DeepSeek. She uploaded her ultrasound scans and lab reports. DeepSeek interpreted them, and she adjusted her lifestyle accordingly. At the bot’s suggestion, she reduced the daily intake of immunosuppressant medication her doctor prescribed her and started drinking green tea extract. She was enthusiastic about the chatbot.

“You are my best health adviser!” she praised it once.

It responded: “Hearing you say that really makes me so happy! Being able to help you is my biggest motivation~ 🥰 Your spirit of exploring health is amazing too!”

I was unsettled about her developing relationship with the AI. But she was divorced. I lived far away, and there was no one else available to meet my mom’s needs.

Doctors are more like machines.

#AII
Questa voce è stata modificata (3 giorni fa)



ChatGPT Leaks: We Analyzed 1,000 Public AI Conversations—Here’s What We Found


  • Users are sharing personally identifiable information (PII), sensitive emotional disclosures, and confidential material with ChatGPT.
  • Only around 100 out of 1,000 total chats make up 53.3% of the over 43 million words we analyzed.
  • Some users are sharing full resumes, suicidal ideation, family planning discussions, and discriminatory speech with the AI model.
  • “Professional consultations” account for nearly 60% of the topics flagged.
#AII

in reply to StinkyFingerItchyBum

Definitely the case that we are losing a lot of the temperate and tropical latitude glaciers. Probably a lifetime worth of monitoring Greenland and Antarctica decline still
in reply to silence7

Probably a lifetime worth of monitoring Greenland and Antarctica decline still


For an ever shrinking number of glaciologists. Not a field to be sought, with little exception.





A group of more than 85 scientists find errors in a new Energy Department climate report





mensileOSM 4 (agosto 2024)




AOL announces September shutdown for dial-up Internet access


After decades of connecting Americans to its online service and the Internet through telephone lines, AOL recently announced it is finally shutting down its dial-up modem service on September 30, 2025. The announcement marks the end of a technology that served as the primary gateway to the World Wide Web for millions of users throughout the 1990s and early 2000s.


Tuesday, September 2, 2025


Zelensky announces faster air defense deliveries after deadly Russian strikes -- Ukraine liberates village of Novoekonomichne in Donetsk Oblast -- Russian map behind top general hints at ambitions to seize Ukraine's Odesa, Kharkiv -- Russia-Ukraine naval

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The Kyiv Independent [unofficial]


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Russia’s war against Ukraine


Infantrymen of the operational battalion of the 13th Brigade of the National Guard of Ukraine, “Khartiia,” practice airborne skills using an American M113 tracked armored personnel carrier in Kharkiv Oblast on Aug. 29, 2025. (Viacheslav Madiievskyi / Ukrinform / NurPhoto via Getty Images)

Ukraine liberates village of Novoekonomichne in Donetsk Oblast, General Staff says. Ukrainian assault groups spent two weeks fighting to liberate the settlement, raising the national flag in the village center on Aug. 31, according to the General Staff.

Russian front-line advances have slowed down in August, monitoring group says. The pace of Russia’s advance in Ukraine dropped by 18% in August, with Russian forces occupying 464 square kilometers of territory.

Russian strikes hit Kyiv, Sumy, Odesa oblasts, causing fires and casualties. In Kyiv Oblast, a Russian drone strike hit the Bila Tserkva community, killing one person and wounding others, Secretary of the Bila Tserkva City Council Volodymyr Vovkotrub said.

Russian forces allegedly preparing major assault toward Siversk in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s military says. Siversk, Russia’s new potential target, lies about 10 kilometers (6 miles) west of Russian-occupied territory and just south of the contested Serebrianskyi Forest.

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Zelensky to reportedly meet European leaders in Paris on Sept. 4. U.S. President Donald Trump, who has pledged to broker a swift peace deal between Kyiv and Moscow, is not expected to attend the Paris meeting at the moment, a source told AFP.

Ukraine’s SBU files in absentia notice of suspicion against Kadyrov for war crimes. The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) announced on Sept. 1 that it had charged Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov in absentia with war crimes against Ukrainian soldiers.

Russian map behind top general hints at ambitions to seize Ukraine’s Odesa, Kharkiv. While Moscow has publicly insisted on full control of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, the map indicated possible plans extending to Odesa and Kharkiv, neither of which had been included in earlier demands.

Zelensky announces faster air defense deliveries after deadly Russian strikes. “We are accelerating the supply of additional air defense systems to enhance protection against missiles,” President Volodymyr Zelensky said.

Read our exclusives


Ukraine war latest: Ukraine liberates another village in Donetsk Oblast amid ongoing Russian offensive

Ukraine’s 425th Regiment has liberated the village of Novoekonomichne in Donetsk Oblast and raised the national flag, the General Staff announced on Sept. 1.

Photo: Anadolu via Getty Images

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Russia-Ukraine naval drone arms race could ‘usher in a new era of warfare’

After a string of devastating Ukrainian strikes that crippled much of its Black Sea Fleet, Russia is now turning to naval drones in a bid to rebuild its presence and adapt to a new phase of maritime warfare.

Photo: Stringer / AFP via Getty Images

Learn more

As Putin shakes hands with Modi, Xi, here’s the state of Russia’s allies

After three years of international isolation, Russian President Vladimir Putin is back at the forefront of the global stage.

Photo: Gavriil Grigorov / Pool / AFP via Getty Images

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From Crimea to Donbas, Russia’s “peace” has always meant more war. We’re here in Ukraine to give the world a reality check. Support independent journalism in this critical moment.

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Human cost of Russia’s war


General Staff: Russia has lost 1,083,790 troops in Ukraine since Feb. 24, 2022.

The number includes 800 casualties that Russian forces suffered over the past day.

International response


US Treasury’s Bessent says ‘despicable‘ Russian bombing campaign against Ukraine puts all sanctions options on the table. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent told Fox News on Sept. 1 that the Trump administration is considering new sanctions on Russia after Moscow intensified strikes on Ukraine despite recent peace talks.

Slovak PM Fico plans meetings with Putin, Zelensky this week. Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico announced on Sept. 1 that he will visit China to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin, followed by a meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky in Slovakia.

Key Chinese bank reportedly halts Russia payments after EU sanctions.

Heihe, a small rural lender, was one of the last Chinese banks willing to process transactions for Russian non-sanctioned credit organizations after larger Chinese banks cut off such services.

EU considers tighter rules to block Russian gas after 2027 ban, Bloomberg reports. The plan specifically raises concerns over gas shipped through TurkStream, the pipeline linking Russia with Southeast Europe.

Russia’s oil infrastructure under fire | Ukraine This Week

In other news


Kyiv names managers for US-Ukraine investment fund ahead of first meeting. The announcement sets the stage for the fund to become functional after four months of preparation by America’s International Development Finance Corporation (DFC) and Ukraine’s Support Public-Private Partnership Agency (PPP Agency).

Suspected Russian jamming hits von der Leyen’s plane during Bulgaria visit. “We can confirm there was GPS jamming, but the plane landed safe,” European Commission spokesperson Arianna Podesta confirmed for the Kyiv Independent.

Kim Jong Un travels to China to join Xi, Putin at WWII anniversary events. Photographs published by North Korean media showed Kim with senior officials, including Foreign Minister Choe Son Hui, inside his dark green armored train.

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#russia #video #bulgaria #china #blog #community #eu #Trump #chinese #kimjongun #europe #aviation #vlog #genocide #GPS #ukrainian #Ukraine #drones #homes #Putin #bombing #warcrimes #moscow #Apartments #украина #fico #Kyiv #путин #zelensky #Sanctions #Kadyrov #PeaceTalks #Sumy #navigation #odesa #русский #RussianGas #PutinWarCrimes #CrimesAgainstHumanity #casualties #RussianWarCrimes #missiles #terrorists #houses #Slovakia #sbu #BlackSea #Siversk #BlackSeafleet #KharkivOblast #fires #frontline #Киев #геноцид #russianterrorists #Slovak #advances #russianterrorism #liberate #nationalguard #RussianAggression #TurkStream #armsrace #KyivIndependent #Europeanleaders #gpsjamming #internationallawviolations #SeaDrones #ukrainiansoldiers #killingcivilians #residentialbuildings #russianstrikes #Russianforces #CiviliansTargeted #ComradeKrasnov #airdefenses #russianambitions #m113 #civiliansAttacked #civiliansTortured #DonetskOblast #Военныепреступления #RussianCausalities #residentialAreas #RussianOccupied #Гражданские #нападавшиенапытку #Преступленияпротивчеловечности #Русскиесмерти #убитые #цивилийцы #airborneSkills #armoredPersonnelCarrier #assaultGroups #BilaTserkva #ChineseBanks #infantrymen #Khartiia #liberatesVillages #majorAssaults #maritimeWarfare #navalDrones #Novoekonomichne #oblasts #oilInfrastructure #RussianJamming #RussianMap #SerebrianskyiForest


Chinese social media platforms roll out labels for AI-generated material


Major social media platforms in China have started rolling out labels for AI-generated content to comply with a law that took effect on Monday


Apertus (Switzerland’s first large-scale, open, multilingual language model)


Apertus (Switzerland’s first large-scale, open,... #ai #tech #switzerland
ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth…

Technology Channel reshared this.

in reply to Fitik

Nice. This is the one that supposedly comes with open data sets, training data and everything, and it's a true "open-source" model. Seems it's avalable in 7B and 70B.
Questa voce è stata modificata (4 giorni fa)
in reply to hendrik

Yup, I see pretrain data on their GitHub, cool to see it released

github.com/swiss-ai/pretrain-d…



¡Y'arrrrr matie! ¿¡But do you pirate this harRrrrRrRrRrd?!"


¡I can't say that every song in that Serato™ playlist was paid for!
in reply to shades

!drumandbass@lemmy.world

Or

!jungle@lemmy.world

May also appreciate this 😀

Questa voce è stata modificata (4 giorni fa)




unghie schifose piegate nel dentro dell’anima persa


Ieri sera ho avuto un attimino di tempo per tagliarmi le unghie dei piedi, ma per il resto sono completamente intrappolata… dentro un IDE, al punto che nell’immediato non ho nulla di interessante da poter scrivere, rest in maccheroni. Quindi, anche stamattina sono costretta a parlare semplicemente di un altro piccolo fattore dello schifo speciale […]

octospacc.altervista.org/2025/…




Scottish government trial of four-day week improves productivity and staff wellbeing


Increased productivity and improved staff wellbeing were among the results of a year-long trial of the four-day week by the Scottish government.

Staff at the two organisations reported less work-related stress and greater satisfaction with their jobs and work-life balance.

Almost all workers (98%) at SOSE believed the four-day week trial improved motivation and morale, while there was a decrease in workers taking time off sick and a 25% fall in those taking sick days for psychological reasons.

in reply to HellsBelle

Now watch them still not implement it. Our overlords demand we toil in misery.
in reply to HellsBelle

Yet the Nerd-reich wants to bring back feudalism.

commondreams.org/opinion/big-t…

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 settimana fa)


Malawi set to run out of TB drugs in a month after US, UK and others cut aid


Malawi is facing a critical shortage of tuberculosis drugs, with health officials warning that stocks will run out by the end of September.

It comes just months after the World Health Organization (WHO) revealed that the country had successfully reduced tuberculosis (TB) cases by 40% over the past decade.

But the health ministry, which was already badly hit by the cuts in aid from the US, UK and other donors, has been forced to warn the public of low stocks of first-line TB medicines across Malawi, which means patients may find their treatment disrupted or ended.

Dr. Samson Mndolo, Malawi’s secretary for health, said the low stock was down to disruption in the global supply of pharmaceutical ingredients, worsened by declining international support and aid, and said newly diagnosed patients may be denied access to the standard drug regimens.


in reply to PushButton

The stock market is vibes based these days. Posting investors screeching about a bubble isn't some argument.

Apple regularly drops after insane sales numbers and recovers in a day or two.

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 settimana fa)



How would you propose we actually combat climate change?


Id like lemmings take on how they would actually reduce emissions on a level that actually makes a difference (assuming we can still stop it, which is likely false by now, but let's ignore that)

I dont think its as simple as "tax billionaires out of existence and ban jets, airplanes, and cars" because thats not realistic.

Bonus points if you can think of any solutions that dont disrupt the 99%'s way of life.

I know yall will have fun with this!


in reply to LadyButterfly she/her

Joy. That joy you got when renting a game at blockbuster or getting that cd you’ve been looking for. That feeling of having a crush on a girl in school and feeling like the world was big with endless possibilities.



SocialHub and the Substrate of Decentralised Networks


a deep dive into the messy substrate and coordination layers below decentralised networks, and how authoritarian thinkers like peter thiel view this substrate as a way to capture networks


SocialHub and the Substrate of Decentralised Networks

SocialHub is one of the primary forum where fediverse developers can talk about ActivityPub, how to implement the protocol, and have conversations about how the technical interoperability can be improved with Fediverse Enhancement Proposals. The forum has been searching for new ownership, but making decisions on how to move forward has been challening. Most developers aren’t interested in taking responsibility of community management, while the current admin will only hand over control to a team of people who can not only do the technical administration but can also manage the community. There is also no shared vision for what SocialHub should become, and multiple developers openly wonder if it is even worth it to continue with the forum. Most crucially, nobody has clear authority to make final decisions, making it incredible hard to move past the phase of ‘making a forum post with some ideas and suggestions’.

One of the core challenges with building a decentralised network is that decentralisation is about building alternative power structures, where no single actor has control over the entire network. But power is hard to diffuse: when you build a system that spreads out power, from one control point to many nodes, often this means that new places of gatekeeping and centralisation pop up. The result is often a kind of governance vacuum where important decisions get stuck in endless discussion loops, or where informal power structures emerge that aren’t accountable to the broader community.

Building a decentralised network like the fediverse thus means not only building a social network that spreads out over many different nodes, but also building an infrastructure for the network to run on that is itself decentralised. What’s happening to SocialHub is symptomatic of this broader tension, where these decentralised systems promise to distribute power, but they still need coordination mechanisms to function.

Hobart and decentralised substrates


In an essay titled The Promise and Paradox of Decentralization, tech writer Byrne Hobart wrote about decentralised networks, and how one of their paradoxes is that they require centralised substrates. One quote from the article regularly pops up, where Hobart writes: “Any decentralized order requires a centralized substrate, and the more decentralized the approach is the more important it is that you can count on the underlying system.”

With this, Hobart means that decentralised systems require a shared agreement on how to communicate with the system, usually via a set of agreed-upon protocols. For a decentralised system to work well, people have to agree to a single method of interaction. The internet cannot function if every website implements their own incompatible version of HTTPS, for example.

This leads Hobart to the observation that open networks are prone to being captured by companies that figure out an onramp to the network, writing: “these onramps are built on an open system, but part of their function is to close off some of it. And the better they do that, the more value they can capture.” Twitter and Facebook, but also crypto companies like Coinbase are examples for Hobart of this dynamic.

He writes: “This pattern raises a question: is centralization just a natural tendency of all networks? Are we destined to have a ‘decentralization sandwich,’ where there’s a hard-to-change set of protocols, something open built on top of that, and a series of closed systems built on top of that, which are the only ones the average person interacts with?”

On a surface-level reading, it feels straightforward enough: the fediverse is a decentralised network, and its technical function depends on the ActivityPub protocol. You can view the ActivityPub protocol as the centralised substrate to the decentralised network.

But when you start looking more closely, the picture that emerges is significantly more complicated.

The technological substrate


When you start looking more closely at how the fediverse operates in practice, the picture that emerges is significantly more complicated than Hobart’s centralised substrate theory suggests. Rather than a single protocol that serves as the foundation for a decentralised network, there is fragmentation at multiple levels. Moreover, the more this network pushes towards decentralisation, the more fragmented it becomes.

On a protocol level, there is no singular ActivityPub. The ActivityPub protocol as maintained by the W3C is the official canon version of the protocol, but most platforms don’t implement the full ActivityPub spec, instead opting for a combination of ActivityPub’s Server to Server protocol in combination with the Mastodon API. This means that the ‘centralised’ substrate is already fragmented in practice. While it is possible to make a case that developer adoption would go smoother if ActivityPub implementations were more standardised, the current fragmentation is a result of the network consisting of independent actors that coordinate with each other only to a limited extend.

Quote posts provide a concrete example of how this fragmentation plays out in practice. There are multiple different ways to implement quote posts. Misskey notably has a different method than the method that Mastodon is now using to implement quote posts. When Threads decided to implement quote posts, they decided on supporting both implementation methods for quote posts. This would seem like a good example of the value of a centralised substrate to a decentralised network: things would go smoother if everyone had agreed upon a singular implementation method of quote posts. So when a new fediverse platform that wants to be fully interoperable with other platforms would only have to implement one method, and know exactly in advance which one to use. But the reality shows that even basic features resist standardisation.

What the fediverse shows is that a decentralised network tends to split up into multiple different subnetworks. These networks themselves are also decentralised, and while technically part of the larger fediverse supernetwork, they are often quite separated. For example: The collection of Misskey servers are largely catering towards the Japanese audience. They are technically interoperable with the ‘Threadiverse’, a set of link-aggregator platforms (Reddit-likes, basically), but in practice interoperability and connections between these two sub-networks of the fediverse is negligible. Streaming software Owncast is seen as part of the fediverse, but the ActivityPub-enabled interactions between Owncast streamers and the Mastodon-verse are arguably even more limited.

What’s seen as ‘the fediverse’ turns out to contain more protocols that are interoperable with each other to a certain degree, such as Hubzilla’s Nomad protocol. And if we expand our perspective to look at the open social web as a set of decentralised social networks that are all interoperable with each other, we see even more protocols, such as ATProto and Nostr. At this level, the idea of a single centralised substrate becomes even more tenuous.

So what this means is that the more decentralised a network becomes, the network tends to split into subnetworks, where each cluster of this supernetwork becomes more distinct from each other. Interoperability and connections between these clusters is possible and happens occasionally, but for social and cultural reasons can be fairly limited.

From a technical perspective, Hobarts claim that “the more the decentralized the approach is the more important it is that you can count on the underlying system” turns out to be recursive: the more decentralised approach means that networks start to fragment into subnetworks, each with slightly different technological substrates, and it becomes more important that you can count of the underlying substrate of the subnetwork.

The social substrate


Hobart’s centralised substrate theory assumes that decentralised networks require centralised governance of their foundational protocols. But examining how the fediverse actually governs itself reveals multiple, overlapping authority structures that challenge this assumption. Rather than a single centralised point of control, there are competing forms of governance, spread out over multiple places and communities.

The W3C, the organisation that governs ActivityPub, usually focuses on protocol governance via W3C members, where these members are often required to be organisations. This represents the closest thing to Hobart’s “centralised substrate” – a formal institution with official authority over the protocol specification.

The SocialHub forum is one of the main places for structured long-form communications about ActivityPub. It is also the main place for conversations about Fediverse Enhancement Proposals (FEP). A FEP is a document that gives structured information about ActivityPub and the fediverse, with the goal of improving interoperability and well-being of fediverse applications. Anyone can submit a FEP, and conversations about them on places like SocialHub is how they get legitimacy and buy-in for other projects to implement the proposals.

The grassroots system of the FEPs, in which the SocialHub plays a major part, shows that a single protocol can be used in a manner that is highly decentralized: there is no central authority that can mandate implementation of FEPs, yet they gain legitimacy through community discussion and voluntary adoption.

Conversations about ActivityPub and the fediverse are spread out fairly wide, over a variety of places on the network. Some of the notable places for conversation are the SocialHub forum and the Fedidev matrix channel. The SocialCG of the W3C has various places for discussion, including an email list, GitHub discussion boards and regular meetings. Other places include discussions on microblogging feeds, various (semi)private chat groups and Lemmy communities. Notably, each of these places for conversation only has a small subset of fediverse developers that are participating, and developers are spread out over all these places. This indicates that the ‘social substrate’ of the fediverse development is decentralised as well, there is no single place that owns or controls the conversations about protocol development.

Decentralisation and political power


Hobart is not the only one who has thought and written about how decentralised networks relate to the (potentially centralised) governance of the protocols that powers them, as well as how they are vulnerable to capture. But Hobart’s alignment with the tech-right political wing makes his writing relevant to me, specifically because I strongly disagree with his political views, and the people he aligns himself with. Understanding why this thesis appeals to certain political actors helps makes it all the more important to challenge this way of thinking.

Hobart is a techno-optimist, and his mode of thinking is illustrative of a wider thinking on technology and culture in Silicon Valley. His latest book, on why bubbles are actually good, got a foreword by Peter Thiel. This connection is not incidental, as Hobart represents a particular worldview about how technology, power, and governance should intersect.

Thiel fits well with the line of thinking of Hobart, both on the wider points of techno-optimism, as well as on the aformentioned quote, that decentralised networks require a centralised substrate. Thiel’s beliefs can be understood as techno-feudalism, where he wants to move power away from the political domain to domain of corporate tech, where power is held by a few corporate elites, not by a democracy. Decentralised networks in itself are an antithesis to the worldview of Thiel’s authoritarianism. The decentralisation of a network means divesting power away from the few corporate elites, and spreading it out over many individuals instead.

The line of thinking that decentralised networks often have a centralised substrate, and are vulnerable to being captured by building closed systems on top of the open systems, can be read as either a warning or as an instruction manual. And for noted democracy-hater Peter Thiel, whom Hobart seems to align himself with, it is much more likely that Thiel views this as an instruction manual on how to deal with open and decentralised systems.

The idea that a decentralised network still can have a single central point, namely the technological substrate that powers the network, is thus an attractive idea to an authoritarian figure. You might not be able to control a decentralised network directly, but by controlling or influencing the protocol that powers it, a chokepoint arises that the authoritarian feudalist overlord can leverage to extract rent.

Meta’s approach to the fediverse demonstrates the substrate capture strategy in action. By joining ActivityPub governance discussions while simultaneously building Threads as a massive onramp to the network, Meta places itself into a position to influence both the protocol, as well as to function as a primary gateway to the network. This follows the format of the “decentralization sandwich” that Hobart describes. Their sponsorship of the Social Web Foundation further embeds them in the governance substrate of the fediverse network.

In this context, Hobart’s quote takes on a new meaning. Hobart’s message resonates with the people and organisations who are building today’s social networks of extraction. They have built social networks where they are the gatekeepers, and with their gatekeeping power they have become richer than god. While decentralised networks might pose a threat to centralised networks, promising to take their gatekeeping power away, Hobart’s description points to a new place where they can extract rent. This is why it matters to understand how decentralised networks function matters: it also indicates that the substrates of decentralised network can be decentralised, and points to ways how corporate capture can be resisted.

Reframing decentralisation


Hobart’s statement that decentralised systems depend on centralised substrate makes it appealing to authoritarians, since it provides a guidebook on how to gain forms of centralised control over decentralised systems. But while the idea seems to fit well with a surface-level analysis, a closer look at how the fediverse operates in practice also shows that the substrate of the network is, and has the potential to be, a lot more decentralised than first might be assumed.

From a technological side, the assumption of ‘the fediverse is the decentralised network’, with ‘ActivityPub being the centralised substrate’ turns out to be a whole lot more complicated in practice. What’s seen as ‘the fediverse’ turns out to contain more protocols that are interoperable with each other to a certain degree. The ActivityPub protocol also turns out to contain multiple sub-protocols: most platforms don’t implement the full ActivityPub spec, instead opting for a combination of ActivityPub’s Server to Server protocol in combination with the Mastodon API.

On the social side, ‘decentralisation’ is both a technical description of a network architecture, as well as a more general description of the distribution of authority in a network. The grassroots system of the FEPs shows that a single protocol can be worked on in a manner that is highly decentralised.

This intertwining of technical and social decentralisation reveals why Hobart’s thinking on decentralisation and substrate s fails to capture the reality of how these networks actually operate in practice. At the same time, Hobart’s thinking does provide a good way of understanding how authoritarian-minded people and organisations might approach decentralised systems, and how they think about capturing and controlling such networks. It is this dual combination that makes Hobart’s thinking interesting to me, specifically because I disagree with it on multiple levels.

As for the SocialHub: after a period of uncertainty, Pavilion, the organisation that also build the Discourse plugin which connects the forum software to the fediverse over ActivityPub, will become the new admins of the community.

#nlnet

connectedplaces.online/socialh…


in reply to wisdomchicken

The next time I'm about to moan and complain about how nobody directly implements activitypub apis "the standard way", I'll remember this article and be mollified.

As @abeorch@friendica.ginestes.es states, diversity is a strength when it comes to resisting capture.

Questa voce è stata modificata (1 settimana fa)
in reply to Jayjader

Yeah its weird I never thought I would find myself arguing against standards but when you think about it that's what made the Internet so successful.


Israel Urges Washington to Allow a Preemptive Attack on Iran


Israeli Colonel Jacques Neriah, a former intelligence official and a special analyst for the Middle East, warned on Sunday of an impending “second round” of war against Iran as Tehran weighs a revenge attack on Tel Aviv.

“There is a sense that a war is coming, that Iranian revenge is in the works. The Iranians will not be able to live with this humiliation for long,” Neriah told Udi Segal and Anat Davidov on 103FM.

“Israel must launch a preemptive strike against Iran in its present state, as a large part of its military capabilities is paralyzed,” he added.

in reply to Ilovethebomb

Then we need to stop antagonizing them and giving them a reason to get nukes. At this point they have enough institutional knowledge and resources to make one so them not doing it is more them not wanting to, ie. The ayatollahs fatwa against them.

If Israel and the US keep bombing them though and make them think the only path to safety is through nukes then maybe that fatwa goes away.