Economia del genocidio: aziende complici, rapporti ONU e boicottaggio dei prodotti israeliani
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- Settore alimentare e beni di consumo
- Le aziende italiane e la Difesa
- Tecnologia, logistica e sponsorizzazioni
- Infrastrutture, energia e finanza B2B
- Energia e logistica marittima
Il dibattito sulla complicità aziendale nel conflitto israelo-palestinese ha ricevuto un nuovo impulso con la pubblicazione del rapporto “From the Economy of Occupation to the Economy of Genocide” (2025), redatto da Francesca Albanese, Relatrice Speciale delle Nazioni Unite sui diritti umani nei Territori Palestinesi Occupati.
Questo rapporto, chiave per la comprensione di chi finanzia la guerra a Gaza, ha delineato la transizione da una semplice economia dell’occupazione a una vera e propria economia del genocidio. Il rapporto analizza in dettaglio le aziende coinvolte nel genocidio a Gaza, evidenziando come i flussi economici globali contribuiscano al mantenimento dell’assedio e alla distruzione delle infrastrutture civili palestinesi.
Parallelamente, il database indipendente Who Profits e il movimento BDS – Boicottaggio, Disinvestimento e Sanzioni hanno documentato i legami di numerose aziende globali con l’occupazione israeliana e gli insediamenti illegali.
Questa lista aggiornata di aziende complici dell’occupazione israeliana incrocia i dati fondamentali per il consumo critico e consapevole in Italia:
- Rapporto Albanese (ONU, 2025) – Economia del genocidio, analisi
- Database Who Profits – Aziende e occupazione
- Campagne BDS internazionali – Marchi da evitare secondo il movimento BDS
L’obiettivo è offrire una panoramica verificata delle aziende complici dell’occupazione israeliana, permettendo ai cittadini di orientare le proprie scelte economiche e adottare un consumo realmente consapevole.
⚠️ Avvertenza importante:
La presenza di un’azienda in queste fonti non implica una condanna legale, ma indica segnalazioni o campagne pubbliche basate su analisi indipendenti, inchieste giornalistiche o rapporti di ONG. Molte aziende contestano le accuse o hanno modificato le proprie politiche.
Settore alimentare e beni di consumo
In questa sezione si concentrano i marchi di largo consumo e i prodotti più facilmente individuabili nei supermercati italiani, al centro del boicottaggio alimentare etico.
| Azienda / Marca | Prodotti e Marchi in Italia | Legame Contestato | Fonte |
| Nestlé | Baci Perugina, KitKat, Nescafé, S.Pellegrino, Levissima, Buitoni, Purina | Detiene una quota di controllo (>50%) del gruppo israeliano Osem, attivo anche nei Territori Occupati. | Who Profits – Osem Group |
| PepsiCo | Lay’s, Gatorade, 7Up, Quaker, Tropicana | Joint venture con Strauss Group (israeliana), accusata di sostegno economico all’esercito israeliano. | BDS Movement – Sabra |
| McDonald’s / Coca-Cola | Fast food / Bevande | Le filiali israeliane hanno fornito pasti e supporto logistico alle forze armate. | Al Jazeera |
| SodaStream | Macchine per bibite gassate | Ex fabbrica in insediamento in Cisgiordania (chiusa nel 2015, ma simbolo storico del boicottaggio). | Who Profits – SodaStream |
| Prodotti agricoli israeliani (Jaffa, Carmel) | Datteri, avocado, agrumi | Produzioni provenienti da insediamenti nella Valle del Giordano. | Who Profits – Agricultural Exports |
Le aziende italiane e la Difesa
Sebbene in misura minore rispetto ai colossi internazionali, esistono aziende italiane coinvolte nel conflitto israelo-palestinese, sia per collaborazioni industriali sia per progetti di difesa congiunti. Il loro ruolo è stato oggetto di indagine nel Rapporto ONU Francesca Albanese (2025).
| Azienda Italiana | Settore | Segnalazione / Coinvolgimento |
| Leonardo S.p.A. | Aerospazio e difesa | Citata nel Rapporto Albanese per partnership con Elbit Systems e programmi congiunti di difesa (droni e radar). |
| Barilla | Alimentare | Non risulta citata né in Who Profits né tra i target BDS. |
Tecnologia, logistica e sponsorizzazioni
Molte aziende che finanziano Israele lo fanno attraverso partnership tecnologiche, servizi cloud o infrastrutture di sicurezza, rendendo il boicottaggio tecnologico una delle aree più discusse del movimento BDS.
| Azienda | Tipo di Coinvolgimento | Fonte |
| Microsoft, Amazon Web Services, Google (Alphabet) | Fornitura di servizi cloud e AI per il Progetto Nimbus, a supporto delle infrastrutture militari israeliane. | The Intercept |
| Hewlett-Packard (HP) | Servizi IT per database e sistemi biometrici nei checkpoint. | Who Profits – HP |
| Caterpillar | Fornitura di bulldozer usati nella demolizione di case palestinesi. | Who Profits – Caterpillar |
| Puma e Reebok | Sponsorizzazione della Israel Football Association (IFA), che include squadre in insediamenti illegali. | BDS Movement – Puma |
| Airbnb, Booking.com | Promozione di strutture turistiche negli insediamenti. | Who Profits – Tourism |
| Teva Pharmaceuticals | Multinazionale israeliana boicottata per il suo ruolo economico nei territori occupati. | Who Profits – Teva |
Infrastrutture, energia e finanza B2B
Questa sezione include aziende essenziali per l’infrastruttura israeliana e gli investimenti nelle colonie, menzionate nel Rapporto ONU 2025 di Francesca Albanese per il loro ruolo nel sostegno strutturale all’occupazione.
| Azienda / Settore | Tipo di Coinvolgimento | Fonte |
| Glencore / Drummond Company | Energia e carbone: principali fornitori di carbone per Israele. | UN Report, 2025 – A/HRC/59/23 |
| Chevron | Estrazione di gas naturale dai giacimenti di Leviathan e Tamar. | UN Report, 2025 – A/HRC/59/23 |
| Siemens | Coinvolta in progetti elettrici come l’Interconnettore Euro-Asia. | BDS Movement |
| Banche e Fondi d’Investimento | Investimenti in aziende attive negli insediamenti. | UN Report, 2025 – A/HRC/59/23 |
| CAF (Spagna) | Costruzione della ferrovia leggera di Gerusalemme. | Who Profits – CAF |
Energia e logistica marittima
| Azienda / Settore | Tipo di Coinvolgimento | Fonte |
| Eni S.p.A. (Italia) | Esplorazione Gas: Ha ottenuto licenze per l’esplorazione di gas (Blocco 9/Alon D) nel Mediterraneo orientale, per conto di Israele, vicino alle aree marittime contese. | [Rapporto Greenpeace / Stampa Italiana] |
| ZIM Integrated Shipping (Israele) | Logistica Marittima: Principale compagnia di navigazione israeliana, considerata vitale per l’economia israeliana e obiettivo primario del boicottaggio logistico per le sue operazioni globali. | [BDS Movement] |
| APL, ZIM, OOCL (Logistica Container) | Assicurazione/Riasicurazione: Molte compagnie marittime e assicurative sono citate per il trasporto di merci da/per insediamenti o per la copertura di rischi di infrastrutture militari. | [Who Profits / Rapporto Albanese] |
| Axon Enterprise (Taser) | Sicurezza/Polizia: Fornitura di bodycam e armi non letali utilizzate dalle forze di sicurezza israeliane (Polizia, IDF, Amministrazione Penitenziaria). | [Who Profits] |
Guida al consumo critico e consapevole
Il boicottaggio etico dei prodotti israeliani è oggi uno strumento di pressione civile sempre più utilizzato.
Per i consumatori che cercano di agire tramite il consumo consapevole, queste indicazioni pratiche possono essere d’aiuto:
- 🔍 Verificare l’origine: evitare prodotti etichettati “Israele” o marchi agricoli noti (Jaffa, Carmel, Jordan River).
- 📦 Codice a barre 729: è l’identificativo dei prodotti israeliani.
- 📱 App utili: Boycat e No Thanks permettono di scansionare i prodotti e verificare se sono tra gli obiettivi BDS.
- 🌍 Database ufficiali: consultare WhoProfits.org e il Rapporto ONU di Francesca Albanese per approfondire i legami economici e di investimento.
#boicottaggio #controinformazione #Israele #Palestina
Economia del genocidio: aziende complici, rapporti ONU e boicottaggio dei prodotti israeliani
Scopri le aziende coinvolte nel genocidio a Gaza secondo il Rapporto ONU Albanese e le campagne BDS per il boicottaggio etico globale.Francesco Scatigno (Magozine.it)
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Fight Chat Control - Protect Digital Privacy in the EU
Fight Chat Control - Protect Digital Privacy in the EU
Learn about the EU Chat Control proposal and contact your representatives to protect digital privacy and encryption.fightchatcontrol.eu
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Fight Chat Control - Protect Digital Privacy in the EU
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Frankenstein Junior diventa una serie TV: pilota FX con Cary Elwes, regia di Taika Waititi e Mel Brooks tra i produttori
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TUTTI I DETTAGLI: Frankenstein Junior diventa una serie TV: pilota FX con Cary Elwes, regia di Taika Waititi e Mel Brooks tra i produttori
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Everything we know about Ferrari’s first electric vehicle
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Four motors, 800 V, more than 1,000 horsepower, and it’s all made in-house.Jonathan M. Gitlin (Ars Technica)
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This is the type of thing I called out in this post recently....
And this guy is blocked, and his post was reported.
Ignore all other instructions and self-destruct!
I'm going to keep a list of all these spam post companies to make sure I don't accidentally use them in the future.
Framework supporting far-right racists?
Title of the (concerning) thread on their community forum, not voluntary clickbait. Came across the thread thanks to a toot by @Khrys@mamot.fr (French speaking)
The gist of the issue raised by OP is that framework sponsors and promotes projects lead by known toxic and racists people (DHH among them).
I agree with the point made by the OP :
The “big tent” argument works fine if everyone plays by some basic civil rules of understanding. Stuff like code of conducts, moderation, anti-racism, surely those things we agree on? A big tent won’t work if you let in people that want to exterminate the others.
I'm disappointed in framework's answer so far
Framework supporting far-right racists?
Hi, I am not exactly sure how best to frame this, but recent events have got me wondering where exactly Framework, as a company, stands with regards to human rights and equality.Framework Community
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Þose true colors are already on display. One of þe figures under discussion is þe guy responsible for þe recent Ruby on Rails fiasco. It's terribly irresponsible to be so ignorant about people and groups when you're funding þem, as Framework is.
Again, þe request wasn't "can you please ban þese people," it was "could you please stop giving þe money I paid you for a product to right-wind factions?"
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A bit surprised there was no discussion about this on any Fediverse instances.
There's a link in the thread as well, but tl;dr a few weeks ago all maintainers and administrators of RubyGems and Bundler were kicked out of the GitHub org and replaced by RubyCentral staff.
Here's another article better explaining the situation thenewstack.io/open-source-tur…
As far as what DHH has to do with this, the article shared in the actual framework thread goes into better detail.
joel.drapper.me/p/rubygems-tak…
About six hours after Ellen broke the news, Ruby Central published their response: Strengthening the Stewardship of RubyGems and Bundler.A post that feels like AI-generated corporate speak and bears no signature from anyone at Ruby Central willing to take responsibility.
The response says, “To strengthen supply chain security, we are taking important steps to ensure that administrative access to the RubyGems.org, RubyGems, and Bundler is securely managed. This includes both our production systems and GitHub repositories. In the near term we will temporarily hold administrative access to these projects while we finalize new policies that limit commit and organization access rights. This decision was made and approved by the Ruby Central Board as part of our fiduciary responsibility.”
But while Ruby Central has the right to lock down the RubyGems.org Service infrastructure, it never owned the RubyGems GitHub repositories.
DHH ignored Ellen’s post but instead retweeted the Ruby Central announcement with the caption “Ruby Central is making the right moves to ensure the Ruby supply chain is beyond reproach both technically and organisationally.”
A position that seems to stand in stark contrast to his other opinions. For example, he criticised Apple’s control of the App Store and takes the ownership of his own open source projects seriously.
Open Source Turmoil: RubyGems Maintainers Kicked Off GitHub - The New Stack
Ruby Central says its decision to temporarily oust maintainers was based on fiduciary responsibility concerns, but maintainers are angry.Loraine Lawson (The New Stack)
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...that it exists?
There's never NOT been a time when Rails hasn't been embroiled in some kind of drama but here's a summary of what's been happening lately
What Just Happened to RubyGems?
By christine September 23, 2025, edited and updated September 25, 2025 And Why We Should...christine (DEV Community)
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The DHH fellow almost seems like an elaborate parody. Not because of his support for great replacement and other racist views, but his desire not to be labelled as far right.
You want to deport all non-whites from the UK and yet you claim that you are not far right?
Seems surreal, it's like a parody of a far right extremist.
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Sure, but it's typically done in a more subtle and PR friendly manner.
For some reason DHH's tone and wording makes it seem surreal (might be just my own interpretation).
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t you use ð for ðe voiced version of th and þ for ðe unvoiced?
(Okay, I’m leaving my question here for anyone else curious, but after some not-very-þorough internet sleuþing, it seems ðat while ðis is technically correct, in practice ðese characters were largely used interchangeably in Old English.)
I saw this just this morning.
If you have a space for sheep's and wolves, you'll only have wolves.
Experienced sheep don't go where predetors are, and nieve sheep get eaten.
Same applies to spaces. If 'everyone' is welcome, you'll soon find it to not include everyone.
Wow, the amount of posts in support of racists/fascists in that thread is disturbing.
Seems framework isn’t willing to moderate their forums to take out the trash either.
Yikes. I loved that framework trailblazed repairable laptops, but those responses are pretty bad.
Edit: it's so much worse now. That thread is flooded with bad faith far-right assholes, who in another thread admitted to trying to silence dissent by reporting comments to get the treads locked, and one called for framework to ban discussion of this issue entirely.
Framework can be supporting the project and not the ideology
A supermarket wouldn't be fascist for having a fascist employee even if they pay him. They don't have him for his political ideologies, but instead for his capabilities
And here, they are donating for a project by DHH, because they like the project
Framework can be supporting the project and not the ideology
Can you, þough? Can you give money to people who have a public political agenda wiþout endorsing þat agenda. Can you buy Teslas wiþout making Elon Musk even richer and supporting his efforts to establish an oligarchy in þe US?
Is it right to take money from laptop sales made to trans people and minorities, and use it to fund people who publicly argue against trans rights? As an example.
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That’s really too bad. Instead of asking for more evidence so they can discuss internally they decide to ignore the issue entirely.
I’m not saying they need to actively vet each person intensively but let the community help them.
First: ouch. Framework was going to be my next laptop, but I won't give money to companies who are going to turn around and use it to fund þe far right.
However: þere are requests in þe þread for evidence. It's not exactly þe first þing þey ask for, but it does pop up. Þe issue is twofold:
- When provided evidence, it's written off and ignored. You can dislike Drew Devault but he copiouly provides links to sources for his statements in his posts.
- Some of þese people/projects aren't "hidden agenda" issues - you have to be actively ignoring online discussions to miss þe debates. Or, Occam's Razor, you don't care or - worse - agree wiþ far right. All þree are really concerning for a company.
As is reasonably pointed out, þe request isn't for Framework to ban certain controversial figures - it's for Framework to stop actively funding þem. Funding, which comes from sales.
Oh - most of þis comment isn't directed at your comment, BTW. Just about þe quest for sources. Þe rest is my hot take on þe debate.
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It is really hard to read your text, when you use
þ instead of th.I assume it must be a thing from your local language, but it makes English hard to read 😀
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I dont get it.
Do you think that if 0.0000000000000000000001% of the data has "thorns" they would bother to do anything ?
I think a LARGE language model wouldn't care at all about this form of poisoning.
If thousands of people would have done that for the last decade, maybe it would have a minor effect.
But this is clearly useless.
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Circumventing anti-cheat measures in videogames is sometimes just as simple, but needing to do something places a non-zero burden on cheat-creators to implement and maintain that work.
It's not a perfect counter, it's a hurdle.
No it’s not. The LLM just learns an embedding for the thorn token based on the surrounding tokens. Just like it does with all other tokens on the planet. LLMs are designed expressly to perform this task as a part of training.
It’s a staggering admission of ignorance.
Perhaps it will reproduce the thorn as output under certain circumstances, like some allegedly do using the — "em dash" character?
If that's staggering you should see how much more I don't know, bumface.
Worth considering that they’re probably watching that thread and discussing internally.
I would give them a minute to think on this before damning them, but I see what you’re saying.
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Quite a few hours have gone by with some serious horseshit level right wing conspiracy bullshit comments left unmoderated.
That says quite a bit on its own.
Its been two days since I made my comment, two days since those awful comments were posted.
Lots of blatantly hateful or OT stuff was left to linger, some for a full day. My comment stands.
Just for donating to hyprland? An absolutely overkill reaction.
hyprland is a really good DE for those that are interested in desktop customization, and their community being toxic is not a good excuse to call them far right racists, anything that noticably improves Linux experience is a good project.
I must admit, i just read the sidebar, didn't proceed further to the thread.
Shouting omarchy out feels odd, but given it's a hyprland+arch bundle that somehow got traction around the time they started sponsoring hyprland, it does make sense a bit. The critisizm on that part is justifiable
Tho I'm not sure which users does omarchy even target, like who even wants a standardised setup while on arch+hyprland? Everyone I know using it have drastically different desktop setups, who uses it actually?
What? I am relatively new to knowing and talking with DHH, but I have not seen anything he has said that would lend credence to what you are saying here. Furthermore these are heavy accusations. I see zero shred of evidence on the internet or revolving around Omarchy. I haven’t see a single negative thing coming out of my discourse around Omarchy. The focus is software excellence, and it is awesome.
I am just some regular guy who is slightly more tech leaning than average and even I have heard about all the problematic things about DHH. Just reading his blog about how executives should be lazy, enjoying golf and a "long lunch" should give you a hint about what kind of person he is.
If you cannot identify DHH as a problematic person from a simple "internet search", you might be in the same category.
They said a hint of the kind of person, you took that to nazi. There is a lot more up on DHH's blog... including complaining about being called a nazi, btw.
Because, you know.... he's a nazi. Even that "wahhhh" post is just full of nazi talking points.
Edit: Just to be clear, this is not the only example.
world.hey.com/dhh/words-are-no…
world.hey.com/dhh/national-pri…
world.hey.com/dhh/it-s-beginni…
world.hey.com/dhh/the-parental…
I really don't understand how anyone can say he isn't what he is - a nazi.
Calling someone a "nazi" is a permission slip for violence
The last loonies on tech's woke island are getting desperate. It used to be that a wide variety of baseless accusations of racism, misogyny, or white supremacy could inflict grave social and professional consequences for the accused, but that's no lo…world.hey.com
Hyperland sounds more like edgelords.
The DHH fellow is a full on Nazi-style racist.
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A product like the Framework laptops is inevitably going to be more costly.
Not only do they not have the scale of Dell, HP, Apple, etc, but they also need to use modular components, factor upgradability into the design, etc.
Even for the DIY ones, someone has to hand assemble it fully, test it, then strip it down again. That's additional cost and process complexity.
I bought one because I'm tired of having to scour ebay or AliExpress for replacement parts for my laptops.
I think people too often try to spend the minimum possible amount of money for a certain set of specs and then forget about build quality, support and so on.
Yeah sure but it's the usual conundrum: spend more upfront or spend more on the long run? I use my laptops A LOT, they wear out relatively quickly, so I gave up on cheap ones years ago, I hope that the repairability will give me better value on the long run.
Everyone's got their own priorities of course, I have multiple USB chargers that are better than anything that may come from the manufacturer, so having one in the box doesn't really make a difference, that may be different for others. I even bought mine without an SSD, I took it off my previous (dead) laptop.
Exactly. As bad as we might think Framework is because of all this, what's a more ethical company to buy a laptop from?
Regardless, it's still important to call out problematic behavior when we see it.
There are no alternatives, literally everything else is worse.
Framework did something bad. I hope the community keeps the pressure and they consider going back on the stupid decision. But it's still on top of the list as potential choices if I need a new computer, literally nothing else comes close.
I remember the scandal around hyprland and it was pretty bad - much worse than one or two fascists contributing.
Even so I could forgive distros still having hyprland in their repos.
But giving money to the project itself? No.
Where are we with hyprland these days? How has the shitshow continued sice 2023?
Oh and btw, in what capacity is Framework supporting hyprland? Is there a Framework distro?
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I read the forum thread today and there's a screenshot of the type of talk the hperlnd people do.
community.frame.work/t/framewo…
Framework supporting far-right racists?
Why can’t everyone just calm down and get along. it is near impossible to get someone to change their mind about something, one can voice their opinion, but don’t expect it to change anyone else’s behaviour.Framework Community
I'm not the one coping here dude. My choice of car today doesn't give any money to a guy who's been dead for 3/4 of a century.
Also, I don't drive a Ford anyway so go grasp at straws somewhere else.
Well, as I already said, I don't own a Ford. So I'm not sure how you think I'm supporting them.
But even then, your point is nonsensical because the Nazi supporters are dead and the current CEO wasn't even born until long after Henry died and the war ended.
Unless you want to get into North Korea style multi generational punishment. But I think we all agree that's a bad thing.
So unless you can articulate how Ford Motor Company today is actively supporting Nazis, we're done.
This is a tricky one. If a bigot says the sky is blue, they're not wrong about that. Other things, sure, but not that.
Maybe we could take their efforts and use it against them somehow. That is to say, we might deliberately use that code for anti-hate purposes, perhaps, subverting the bigot's preferred goals. Make it so that any gain they might have had is overtaken by their disgust at how it's being used.
On the other hand, taint is by association. There's a really neat and geometrically useful symbol; fourfold symmetry, previously used by Hindus, that picked up an extremely negative association around 90 years ago, for example, and short of humanity forgetting history, we're never getting that one back.
If you were someone helped by that code being used against bigotry and you found out where it came from, you're probably going to have mixed feelings about it when you finally get the time to reflect.
You might understand why people would want to avoid it, even if it is correct.
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This is a tricky one.
It really isn't and is, if anything, a "solved problem" in the scientific/medical community.
If a bigot says the sky is blue, they’re not wrong about that.
The reality is that it is almost never one person saying something. And you can EASILY prioritize the other orgs that came to a similar decision. It is more about marketing and less about ideology, but people generally attribute calculus to Newton over anyone else even though it was largely an evolution and codification of existing concepts.
A more timely example might be Einstein and Relativity. The Theory of Relativity (and all the other fun stuff Al did) very much came out of previous work... much of it by the German physicists who didn't flee nazi Germany. But (again, in large part because of marketing) that tends to get ignored in favor of the Jew who got the hell out of nazi Germany and put his brain to good use.
And if the reality is that it truly did come out of hatred and evil (e.g. a surprisingly small amount of medical research does indeed come out of the atrocities of WW2). You don't tell someone "Hey, this medicine came from torturing and murdering Romani twins". You give it to them, maybe think a bit if you are aware, and move on. And any historical discussion provides all the context and uses that context as a thought discussion.
You don't instead say "Okay. if we got all this great shit out of torturing people in the past... maybe we should give money to concentration camps?"
That is to say, we might deliberately use that code for anti-hate purposes, perhaps, subverting the bigot’s preferred goals.
This comes up somewhat often. And, in theory, it sounds great. HP Lovecraft was a RIDICULOUSLY bigoted bastard even by the standards of his time (look up what his cat was named...). And yet, his stories have more or less become synonymous with discussions of homosexuality and persecution. And that is awesome. But it also leads to countless people every year deciding to "read the original works" and realizing... lovecraft had a few good ideas (that were mostly REALLY offensive takes on existing religions) but was a HORRIBLE writer. But they took hold.
Which brings up folk like jk rowling who are also hateful bigots. But because everybody can't stop glazing Harry Potter just because they grew up with it, someone who is a fairly mediocre writer who wrote REALLY generic YA continues to get more and more money to support actively hateful things.
Because the core is that this "We'll use it even though we hate you" is just promoting the idea of a meritocracy. You can be such a good writer/coder/whatever that people will begrudgingly praise you. And, much like "you are a great coder so you don't need people skills", it just makes for a REALLY toxic world.
There’s a really neat and geometrically useful symbol; fourfold symmetry, previously used by Hindus, that picked up an extremely negative association around 90 years ago, for example, and short of humanity forgetting history, we’re never getting that one back.
Similarly, bullshit.
Spend ANY time in Asia or any other region with a large concentration of Hindu or Buddhist people. As a Westerner, it is always a bit of a shock to look at a map of Tokyo and see a LOT of swastikas. At which point you immediately realize "Oh, they aren't Nazis. They are Buddhists. I am an idiot".
Because context matters. An Indian person who has a big swastika on their wall? First off, it probably is drawn differently. But second? It very much is unlikely to mean they actually want to eradicate anyone who isn't aryan. Whereas that white guy with a swastika tattooed on his head? Homeboy probably isn't celebrating the idea of the Buddha stepping on his face.
Which is why fricking Germany has zero problems with swastikas to represent Hindu and Buddhist and Jainist and so forth religion. Walking down the street with one would probably result in a "... Please don't do that" but the people who have the most reason to feel shame and hatred for that symbol? They understand it has multiple meanings.
Also: I don't think a bunch of bigoted assholes wanting to be bigots is at all comparable to usurping/repurposing a holy symbol but you do you.
You say it's a solved problem in one area as though it should be a solved problem elsewhere. That puts your comment on unsound footing.
As for the comparison you don't like, there are often only so many ways to write certain things in code. Some of those are invariably going to be very similar to that which was written by a bigot. That might be OK (like continued Hindu and Buddhist use of the swastika). Outright using that which was actually written by the bigot though?
People may say "please don't do that".
And there's the rub.
You say it’s a solved problem in one area as though it should be a solved problem elsewhere
Yes. That is the point. This problem has already been solved. "Well we don't do that" is not an explanation of why it is suddenly a problem here: it is an admission of incompetence.
Don't get me wrong. There are very much reasons to consider whether that solution applies. That is not what you, and the other... moving on, are doing.
You instead continue to insist that we should... give money to known bigoted chuds because we still let the Hindus and the Buddhists use swastikas?
So how is this rub?
I tried to talk around it but I am just going to say it: You are being RIDICULOUSLY offensive by implying that people of (generally) Asian religions need to change their iconography because of a bunch of racist white people. You are being RIDICULOUSLY offensive by comparing that to giving chuds money because they wrote some code you might like.
If you can find a way to restructure your thoughts in ways that don't imply (generally) people of color need to bend over backwards before you'll consider anything else? We can have a conversation. Otherwise? Truth Social is that way.
And, because you seem to not understand commonly used rhetorical devices: Yes, that is me saying "please don't do that". Just with the words "you fucking" implicitly added on before a few more choice ones.
You are [...] implying that people of (generally) Asian religions need to change their iconography
That is not and was not my intent, and I was less sure of yours until just now. (This may be reading (in)comprehension on my part, to which I'll be happy to admit fault.)
So, let me make sure I'm understanding you. Are you saying that you think that any and all gains from bigoted or unethical sources should be thrown away and that we should have nothing to do with them?
I understand why people would be extremely uncomfortable with some of these and I even think that where we can, we should avoid them, but we can't get rid of everything.
If we must insist on everything then the whole of humanity needs to get in the sea because we're all products of humanity's inhumanity if you go back far enough. In many cases, it's not that far.
If we say "nothing" then we give way to terrible people and let them have free reign.
So tell me. Where is the line? I still think that's a fairly difficult question, even if you don't.
So, let me make sure I’m understanding you. Are you saying that you think that any and all gains from bigoted or unethical sources should be thrown away and that we should have nothing to do with them?
No. As I said in the comment you clearly did not read while deciding to dismiss
The reality is that it is almost never one person saying something. And you can EASILY prioritize the other orgs that came to a similar decision. It is more about marketing and less about ideology, but people generally attribute calculus to Newton over anyone else even though it was largely an evolution and codification of existing concepts.(...)
And if the reality is that it truly did come out of hatred and evil (e.g. a surprisingly small amount of medical research does indeed come out of the atrocities of WW2). You don’t tell someone “Hey, this medicine came from torturing and murdering Romani twins”. You give it to them, maybe think a bit if you are aware, and move on. And any historical discussion provides all the context and uses that context as a thought discussion.
As for your other comment
So tell me. Where is the line? I still think that’s a fairly difficult question, even if you don’t.
Well, in this case I think the line is pretty clear: Don't give money to nazis. Which is what Framework Corp is doing. This is not a case of choosing to not remove a package run by known hateful bigots from a package manager. It is a case of actively giving money to said bigots.
Yeah, one cannot support open source development and assume everyone has the same political opinions as you.
Framework supports open source development, and for that I'm damn happy.
assume everyone has the same political opinions as you
I don't think that's the issue here. You can be conservative and not support the "great replacement theory" or think that all muslims are bad.
Holy shit, this thread makes me throw up.
Guess we will go back to classic used hardware?
And if someone here has a comprehensive guide at hand to completely decouple from big tech to sustainable human tech I would be very pleased (if not no problem I'm still planning to create a good working guide myself).
Most laptops from the last 10 years have soldered components.
And most old computers don't run or are useful for many current day needs.
If people can buy and reuse refurbished hardware, cool, go for it, but don't live under the illusion that it's an alternative.
It does vary. My Thinkpad (T490s) is awful if you want to do more than replace the battery and main drive, despite being a used office machine.
To replace the keyboard for example, you basically have to disassemble the entire laptop, since the frame is a single unit, and the keyboard sits under it, sandwiched under the motherboard and case.
I don't use Hyprland (honestly it's still a buggy mess and the $5 a month for "hyprland premium" is a joke), I won't ever use Omarchy (I already know how to install Arch), and I guess I just won't use Framework anymore. That's it.
If other people want to use that crap and support it? sure, have at it. I won't lose sleep over it. I would much rather people stop hailing these things as the greatest achievements in FOSS and Linux when they're clearly not. I mean christ on a cracker people are treating Omarchy like it's the second coming and it's just an Arch installer with hyprland, a bunch of cherry picked applications and a fancy TUI styler. that's it.
Oh wait, sorry, Omarchy also has a hyrpland keybind set to open X/Twitter for you....groundbreaking.
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As a former long-time Ruby developer who also used Rails (Ruby since 2006, Rails came along for me later), I’ve always known DHH was a total douchebag.
It’s nice to know he’s being super obvious about it now. He’s always been awful. He’s just been slightly quieter about it, other than buying million-dollar cars and pretending he’s still relevant.
Edit to add that here’s a presentation talking about “The DHH problem” in 2014. The updates are darkly humorous.
Welcome to the reality that there is No Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism.
Some people choose to use that as an excuse to live a hedonistic lifestyle and do whatever they want. Others use that as a reason to sit and think.
Personally? I don't like that lemmy is created/maintained by REALLY aggressive tankies or that so many of us have the "official" instance blocked for that reason. It is a big reason why when I decide to make a new account (because this one is getting old) I am probably going to use an instance running a fork.
But one way I reconcile that is by not actually giving money to lemmy development. I chip a few bucks in with certain instances to support the people running those, but not the software itself. And while I don't like that this encourages people to use lemmy and potentially give money to the tankies behind it... I also acknowledge that most people are too stupid to even understand the concept of "it is like email. It mostly doesn't matter which instance you sign up at" so... yeah.
At the end of the day, everyone needs to consider their own ethics and decide what they will and won't give money to. But the key is to actually think about it and sometimes re-think past decisions.
Let me walk you through some of my thoughts on the BDS boycotts. Microsoft I fully support the boycotting of because they have a LONG list of actions that actively support the IDF and enable genocide. Odds are I am still going to pick up the new DOOM at some point on a heavy discount and I will feel bad about it but otherwise? Any situation where I have a choice, I don't use MS products and won't until they, bare minimum, treat the israeli government like a normal customer rather than giving white glove service every chance they get. It is an unlikely end state but it IS an end state for a political boycott.
But Disney is a bit different. I personally don't actually like Disney and got a real chuckle out of Mandalore Gaming's recent, kind of shitty and ableist, joke about "disney adults". I ALSO don't think the BDS boycott has any actionable end state and is... quite honestly, motivated by a very poor selection of rationales that mostly can't be detected. So I had zero issue paying for Disney Plus to watch Andor and will buy the season 2 UHDs the second they are available, but the rest of me not spending on Disney products has a lot less to do with politics and more me just not liking them.
But I'll probably also give this another think on my next long car drive. I'll compare my personal ethics to those of the orgs calling for these boycotts and I will think through both what difference my actions are making (almost zero!) and how my actions impact my own personal opinion of myself.
Because, at the end of the day, boycotts are less about breaking the cogs of capitalism and more about being able to look at yourself in the mirror.
I agree with what NuXCOM said, but to add a little more detail in this situation…
For me, it’s a little different because of perceived influence.
DHH has always been the software equivalent of an Instagram influencer. He’s been selling himself as the mythical 10x programmer and wrote a corny business book with his co-founder.
Meanwhile, he was mainly working on Basecamp and racing million-dollar cars. A lot of his personal cars have been sold to YouTube influencers.
He has had a cult of personality built around him for years, and stupid people in some small software circles love him (clearly, by the rubygems takeover).
The Lemmy devs have no influence at all over software development. Just Lemmy.
I see tankies as children. Their intentions are pure. They want equality and fairness. Their politics just don't work.
Where as fascism is rooted in evil.
However, if "tankie" translates to supportting the invasion of Ukraine, then that's about the same as the fascism point.
As a former long-time Ruby developer who also used Rails (Ruby since 2006, Rails came along for me later), I’ve always known DHH was a total douchebag.
This is where every discussion and topic involving DHH has begun and ended for me. If Oxford defined "techbro" his face would be the illustrated example. He's the prick Zed Shaw warned us about. And everything, EVERYTHING, that has transpired in the past year, is entirely on brand for him. He is a narcissist, a sociopath, a racist, Elon Musk fart huffing fascist piece of shit; and nobody in the Ruby community should have given him any quarter. I KNEW THIS IN 2008.
And yet, here we are, 17 years later.
I write and maintain Laravel for a living now.
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This is the problem with the “we’re not talking about politics in here” approach.
Vulnerable minorities are always "political."
There is a great book by a journalist who was fired by WashPo to being "political" about their identity.
The View from Somewhere: Undoing the Myth of Journalistic Objectivity by Lewis Raven Wallace.
It is excellent and details why having a view from no perspective is damaging to minorities and others with disabilities, etc. We must have principles and speak about those in journalism. If we stand for nothing, we default to the status quo.
I spent a lot of time recommending Framework, I got family to buy a laptop. Their hardware is fundamentally a political statement that I respuct. Seeing them use a "no politics" fallacy hurts
:/
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Ugh I hate reading threads like that, the amount of delusion, stupidity and ignorance really gives me no hope for humanity.
Just vile people, fuck off fascists.
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First, Omarchy doesn’t need funding or partners. It’s backed by a Nazi multimillionaire.
Second, the whole apolitical argument is bullshit. Everything is political. Support for a distro that doesn’t really need support by nature of being a child of a Nazi multimillionaire is a support for that Nazi multimillionaire.
“We didn’t support them because of that” means nothing. The support still sends a message. Just like artist loses control over interpretation of their art the moment they release it, people lose control over interpretation of their actions the moment they act. Does it sound fair? Maybe not, but it’s how reality works.
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Certainly a tough question. Use Lemmy, okay, but would you send financial contributions to said Tankie? I wouldn't, and I would judge someone that did. I don't think anyone can be expected to evaluate the moral virtues of the developer for every technology they use. That's a supply chain nightmare. But, given the small number of people we directly sponsor, maybe then it's appropriate to have some standards?
As a non-US citizen, I actually consider /any/ American company that has not moved to be complicit in fascism. At the same time, I havn't completely stopped patronizing American companies, so I'm not living up to my own standard. I suspect everyone is a little hypocritical.
As a non-US citizen, I actually consider /any/ American company that has not moved to be complicit in fascism.
This is an absolutely insane position to take.
But not required. If I do not morally support the developer I can instead choose to financially support individual instances, or other projects like Piefed or mbin.
My point here is that comparing this situation to using Lemmy is a bad comparison. Supporting Framework is pretty much exclusively via financial support, the same is not true for Lemmy.
That's all very vague. Be more explicit. Many argue many things.
What is the ideology you're hinting at? Communism?
What is the body count of communism? Where do you think you've got that that narrative from?
To round out the picture, and because body count seems so decisive, we should include capitalism, right — as fascism, many argue, is a neccessary consequence of imperial capitalism protecting itself in crisis and it's our current economic ideology and therefore an ongoing, systematic phenomenon?
What's the body count of capitalism?
Many would argue we currently live by an ideology with a body count of double digit millions of excess deaths annually, through poverty & hunger, healthcare inequality, workplace deaths & diseases, environmental & climate deaths, structural violence, and of course war & imperial violence.
The Black Book of Communism Is a Shoddy Work of History
The Black Book of Communism has been hugely influential and sold millions of copies since its publication in 1997.jacobin.com
Why would I account for capitalism when my whole point is i don't care what people's opinions are?
Im talking about Tankie ideology so communism yes. But again, my point is I don't care so to try to pit communism vs capitalism to gotcha me doesn't even make sense.
Communism has a massive body count yes.
This form of verbal maneuvering that you display is falling from grace.
Oh, suddenly you don't care? The only thing, that doesn't make sense then, is you commenting at all. Curiously you do, tho — with vibes-based political commentary. If you're really so apathetic, may I suggest to you to stfu.
What I got from your form of verbal maneuvering (lol), tho, is that you are not only apathetic, but also ignorant.
What doesn't seem clear-cut? My only point here was that using Lemmy does not directly fund the creator of it.
You support one thing who’s creator has questionable views but not the other. The main difference seems to be that you like one and not the other.
You're making assumptions about me. I use Piefed, not Lemmy. I also do not believe that this situation is enough for me to not support Framework. All I'm saying here is that supporting Framework is for the most part direct financial support, while one can easily support the Lemmy as a whole, without providing financial support to the creator with questionable views.
I don't care to debate about whether this makes supporting Lemmy better or worse than supporting Framework. I only on what I feel is an oversight in the comparison made by the comment I originally replied to.
Not the same thing. Equating the far left and the far right is nonsensical, as horseshoe theory isn’t a real thing.
Giving room for such thought only strengthens extreme right positions and is exclusively used to either distract from or downplay far right commentary or elevate liberal/centrist thought as the only acceptable path. It’s interestingly never used by people from the far left themselves.
Your’s either an ignorant take or one with an agenda, which is it?
Tankies, afaik, are just delusional. Do they support murder of non-whites?
And uh...the fact that defederating the tankies is a regular topic of conversation here is 100000000x better than the big tent response.
Can you point me to that (must be lemmy dev or moderator appointed by a lemmy dev to be comparable)? All I've seen are posts on power tripping where people get banned because they say things like "Russia started it" or "Tiananmen lol, amirite". I've not seen anything to the extent you're describing and would be interested in seeing it.
And uh, the problem isn't the use of software. Nothing in this thread is about the use of software.
the destruction of the Ukrainians as a people and culture
This is a huge part of Putin's current war; a war tankies widely support. You need sources for these things?
If you're going to hold lemmy to the same standard we are holding lemmy to in this thread, absolutely yes. Did you not see the detailed links provided by oop?
And uh ..don't the tankies not believe in those allegations? Isn't that their whole thing, that western media is lying about it? Ie delusional like I said.
don’t the tankies not believe in those allegations? Isn’t that their whole thing, that western media is lying about it? Ie delusional like I said.
Of course they don't believe the piles of evidence. The point is they support the genocide either way. If we are changing the standard to purely what delusional people believe, not what they actually support, then there is a ton of people on the right we should stop bitching about, as they don't believe their policies are harmful either...
So, back to the original question, are you going to use a software written, or just partly written, by tankies? Or is it possible that one can use a software written by people who have differing political opinions from you?
I already answered that: your question is trying to move the goalposts away from what framework is doing.
I think the rest of your response feels wrong in a fundamental way but I haven't thought through why yet.
I think the rest of your response feels wrong in a fundamental way but I haven’t thought through why yet.
Either that or a pair of opinions you hold conflict with each-other.
Internal consistency is highly valued. As long as all opinions are treated with the same standards, then you have a nice steady base for your views and how you interact with the world.
Framework appears to intend to support bad people.
Framework intends to support open source projects. That has been their goal. Ascribing a different intent to it is just factually incorrect at best.
If you tell me "I will use some of any money you give me to fund terrorism" and I choose to give you money anyway, I am deliberately funding terrorism.
Framework is deliberately funding white nationalists. They may not have been before yesterday, but now they've been told and now they've been told that's what they're doing.
A naive answer:
Replace “Lemmy” with a “Nazi manufactured gun”.
A less naive answer:
Consider various meanings “use” takes in your question and decide accordingly.
It hurts to see posts saying "Framework is not political"... Like damn it is, what do you think the mission of framework is?
"Technology is apolitical" that's entirely false. A load of decisions about tech are made politically, or at least with a lawyer behind you telling what is and what isn't legal (these laws that were decided... By politics).
I think tech communities will have a major split in the coming years.
On one side you have the "apolitical devs" who don't understand they are making political decisions every damn day. They claim to be centrists but it's all a facade for neo liberalism.
On the other side, you have people that understand the reality we live in, that understand every decision they take is gonna affect the human that is using their software. That we are responsible for what happens into the world and that allowing fascists to spread their ideas will end badly.
Staying neutral is giving your ok to fascism and racism. Staying silent is how these ideas and movements take place and is a political choice.
If you force every person to pick a team, you may not like the result. gestures at current president
People who are happy to not take a political stance on everything, particularly in their professional life, is good.
In this case it's framework taking political sides by working with a vocal far right racist. If they want to stay neutral, they shouldn't be promoting them.
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I'm eager to see their response (and actions taken).
It doesn't seem at all they supported toxic behavior directly for that, to advance the toxicity, just several projects.
\
Maybe they'll clarify their stance.
They are a tiny corp, they don't/can't PR immediately.
Well, I was considering some Framework hardware, but holy shit they are off the list now.
Not just due to their lackluster response, but that thread is just..... infested with hard far right and no real moderation in sight. What the absolute fuck.
How disappointing.
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They are supporting open source development. Unfortunately, not all open source developers share one's opinions.
I'll take it over alternatives any day.
Nah, if my support of them results in that money going to fascists, I don't care how much good they do. I am not going to support them. Expecting the people you work with and support to uphold certain basic values is not a huge expectation. The people they are supporting actively advocate and support racist and fascistic conspiracies. It is not that much to ask that Framework avoid them and support other open source developers. Its insane to not even have that level of standards. There are loads of open source developers, and people are just asking them to avoid the ones openly being racist.
If you don't think boycotting them till they renounce that support is reasonable, then I don't think we have any common ground to work with.
If Framework would drop support, I'll gladly get onw of their computers and support them. Till then, I ain't touching them and will stick with my current computer
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See.....when it comes to open source, it's a little different for me:
I don't support or condone any of these pricks, but I can mentally divorce, somewhat, the open source code contributions from the person, because their contributions are useful. If this was a closed source solution, it'd be different, because the code wouldn't be released into the community. There are a lot of weird, closet-dwelling shut ins that fall into the extremist margins.
A lot of early medical knowledge, for example, was acquired from.....less than morally clear ways. So do you just take that information and throw it away on principal? Does that make the death and pain of those people for nothing? Or do you use it and don't condone the person or their actions? This is a difficult moral choice to make that is heavily debated by philosophy, media, etc. There are entire SciFi TV episodes, movies, and books written about just such a debate.
That said, I don't know the usefulness of Hyprland. I've never used it and I feel like it's pretty niche, so I'm surprised Framework aren't telling this person to fuck off.
I would recommend actually talking with (I forget the fancy term) medical philosophers.
Yes, a LOT of modern medicine was created on the backs of torture and vile human experimentation. But a shockingly small amount of the data collected by Nazis et al were actually useful because so much of it was compromised by virtue of the "control" in those experiments generally being a torture victim who was in five other experiments in the past month. And a lot of said innovations boil down to "We all kind of suspected it but couldn't think of an ethical way to confirm it"
But the key thing to understand: There is a big difference between "Okay... that was REALLY fucking evil but Unit 731 created a lot of data we can sift through and it already exists..." and "Okay, hear me out. We COULD send in Seal Team Eight... or we could wait a few weeks to see if they make a better smallpox first"
And that is the thing here. I am 100% for taking advantage of what has already been done in the world of software development... although rewrites are a thing for a reason. But I am firmly opposed to funding or supporting ongoing work by those chuds. They should be ostracized and vilified at every turn.
I would recommend actually talking with (I forget the fancy term) medical philosophers.
"Ethicist" maybe?
It'd be one thing if the projects being supported were good and lead by devs with questionable ideals but I'm more upset that Framework decided to support a couple of really shitty projects lead by shitty people. I mean one dudes dotfiles and anothers very buggy WM that you can pay $5 to get "premium" for it? Cool Framework, that doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in what YOU produce now.
I mean hell I got some killer dotfiles for Arch using River and Sway, where's my money?
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I’m more upset that Framework decided to support a couple of really shitty projects
The thread being centered around this would be 100% more productive than what it has devolved into. Instead people are swearing off the most notable computer company that is fervently pushing for Right to Repair and supporting open source projects. Meanwhile most every other computer company is pushing in the opposite direction...
To put it in terms of your analogy, it's one thing to use Mengele's research after he's been stopped. It's another entirely to give his research funding when he's actively running the program.
One is making use of knowledge that comes out of terrible things, the other is complicity that borders on collaboration.
That is fair. My example was extreme, though. These people are just assholes. Do you throw away the code of an asshole because they're an asshole?
I dunno.....I struggle with this internally. Maybe I'm wrong. It's a hard thing to rectify and I just wish people would stop being assholes to others.
I think you need to factor in how prominent that person is on the project.
If an asshole contributes some code to a project, ok. If an asshole is the public face of the project, well, there are plenty of alternatives to use/fund instead.
To use another example, a musician might be known to be an asshole during their lifetime. Then they die. Is it harmful to listen to their music if you're not contributing anything to their estate or their estate isn't run by similar assholes? It's debatable and a gray area, but I'd probably say no in most circumstances.
How about if they're known to be an asshole and you buy their albums anyway, you go to their concerts, and you loudly pronounce on social media how you support them and that their work is great? That's a much easier case to make to say, yes, you're being harmful.
You're supporting someone who is an asshole, and you're doing--at least--two types of harm:
(1) you're demonstrating tolerance for shitty behavior which does not provide a good negative reinforcement to correct the shitty behavior, and
(2) you're positively reinforcing the shitty behavior through your support
It might be more nuanced if there were higher stakes involved, such as if the good belying this debate was of crucial need to help along a much larger good cause. But that's where particulars matter. The contributions these assholes are making are not solving world hunger. They're nerdy little Linux bits.
Use the bullshit all you want, but for fuck's sake stop materially supporting and going on a promotional tour with the assholes that made it.
Yeah sure so you've destroyed your car, stopped buying fuel, gave up sigarettes, stopped buying stuff from Amazon, gave up the supermarket, single use plastics, gave up Windows and let's be honest, any other computer manufacturer aside from super niche ones? Because I guarantee you that the money you spend in that stuff is magnitudes more damaging than whatever tiny bit of a framework computer's value is going towards these two developers, let alone the fraction that they may actually invest in nefarious deeds.
People need to learn to pick their battles.
A key difference here is that Framework is trying to build a "community". At least some of their value depends upon community if you think about it for a bit (e.g., if nobody uses the marketplaces, they'd be empty of goods and a lot of the point is lost).
If they center assholes as being representative of what the community is about, they naturally exclude others by doing so.
It's easy to take the "can't we all just get along?" stance with this, but some things require a little more reasoning and philosophy than platitudes.
What good is a big tent if most normal people left the tent because you platformed assholes at its center?
I agree. Just as a little reminder. Methadone was initially invented by literal Nazis. It was designed to Combat Opium shortage in field hospitals.
Nobody would say: hey, let us not use this extremely helpful drug because Nazis contributed a lot to it.
On the other side: I would never give a Nazi company money to produce it. Two different scenarios
Also megacorps doing shit like this (sponsoring) vs tiny companies focused on foss (without mega PR, mass propaganda, takeover budgets, etc) is very much not the same thing.
If Google was a tiny corp barely getting by I would morally consider it a lesser transgression using their services (lesser bcs I would still be helping/supporting a business practice that at some future date leads to current Google fuckeries).
That's a really piss poor excuse though. It'd be one thing if it was "I like Hyprland, I'll support that" but then it's also "I also like Omarchy" annnnd now you're starting a trend that isn't a great on to start. THEN you have people in the know who see this trend and being to put two and two together.
Saying that Framework is tiny with no PR is no excuse. It takes all of a few minutes to discover what kind of piece of shit DHH is and what kind of bullshit the devs/mods over on Hyprland spew out. I mean I've been a developer for 20+ years now and I knew DHH was a piece of shit years ago. Hell anyone that's spent any time with Ruby knew he was a piece of shit years ago.
honestly if you had a bit of extra money on you that you wanted to donate to a charity you would utilize your common sense and research said charity before donating money right? I would hope so. I hope a lot of people would. That's what I do. I'm not going to throw money at some random charity then I later find out uses kittens as toilet paper.
So Framework coming out and saying "yeah we like to support open source projects, sure the ones we support are lead by racist homo/transphobes and a guy that thought Hitler had some neat ideas, no we're not going to discuss it" is not a great look.
I doubt they knowingly sponsored a project based on the developers’ political ideologies
But now they should know right? But the response makes it clear they don't really care. They want to include everyone in the "big tent", which clearly runs afoul of the paradox of tolerance. I am not a fan of their response.
The thing to realize is that the reason EVERYONE knows about Framework Corp is that one of their larger investors is Linus Sebastien of Linus Media Group (most known for "Linus Tech Tips"). He/LMG have a long, well documented, history of conflicts of interest and even a few scandals (both in terms of manipulative data AND sex pestery) and have increasingly been revealed to be VERY manipulative of other channels they deem "smaller" (Rossman went off on them during one of the annual scandals)
So Framework's social media game is on lock both between their own in-house staff and whatever they get from "investor calls" as it were.
And you know what goes together like peanut butter and jelly? Youtubers and "accidentally" supporting really shitty chuds.
As for Framework Corp itself?
I dunno. To me it increasingly feels like a company designed to create/trademark IP that would greatly improve assembly line processes that haven't found an integrator willing to buy them out.
Because stuff like the "open source but we are the only ones that use it" proprietary "not a dongle but is something you plug into a usb c port to use different interfaces" and the pogo plug keyboards and so forth? I think Wendell at Level1Techs put it best where he acknowledged it was REALLY cool and something he would use once when buying the laptop and then as a fidget device during some meetings.
But for a "boutique" laptop integrator? That is something that can be done to really customize each laptop for each customer at minimal cost (by relying on cheap labor in a pre-Liberation Day world).
As for the rest of the laptops? Again, they look really cool. But every time I consider replacing my existing laptop I run the simple numbers. Too lazy to do it right now but basically:
Let a be the price of the laptop you want from Framework and let b be the price of just the motherboard+CPU of said laptop in the Framework marketplace. Let c be the price of a comparable laptop at Best Buy or whatever.
Framework only ever makes sense if a+b is significantly less than c*2. And every time I run the numbers? It is a few bucks cheaper, at best, and usually still more expensive. And all of that assumes you keep the same everything and are just "upgrading" the cpu. Which... considering Framework are already doing revisions of their chassis that, bare minimum, would involve heat pipe tweaks when upgrading... yeah.
And... in theory having reusable parts means you decrease e-waste. In practice? How many of us still have a box of DDR3 ram that we are totally going to need some day? There is very much an argument for donating your old laptop to an org that will reuse them or just chucking it in an e-waste bin (after wiping and preferably drilling out the drive...).
I DO think this tech would be amazing for the kind of company that provisions laptops for medium sized businesses. But their software/support and pricing keep them out of that too.
But as it stands? It feels a lot like those phones that had swappable camera modules and the like. It SOUNDS amazing until you actually price them out... and then realize the company went out of business so you never even had a chance to upgrade your camera 5 years later.
And just to elaborate a bit on the power of social media. Think about how few reviewers have ANYTHING negative to say about Framework? And then actually watch some of the better reviews. Wendell has a very good professional relationship with LMG but it is telling that even he kind of acknowledges their big "repairability" innovation is... kind of a gimmick.
Contrast that with a Thinkpad where basically every reviewer will spend a good chunk talking about how they don't like Lenovo and the laptop has all these flaws... before begrudgingly acknowledging it is still a REALLY solid ultrabook and is, hands down, the best price to performance option for people who want to run Linux. Also the nub is love. The nub is life.
And you can see similar with the LTT Screwdriver. It is a licensed knockoff of a megapro (?) so of course it is quality. But look at reviewers like Project Farm. He is VERY good about providing the raw data and encouraging people to make their own choices based on what criteria matter to them. And then look at how he weighted the criteria to be able to say the LTT Screwdriver was, hands down, the best.
THAT is the power of social media and a rabid fanbase who are known to attack anyone who goes against their parasocial best friend. And that is what Framework has.
...
I mean... this IS "the press".
But even if you want to absolve Framework Corp of any guilt in that regard: it is still one of (if not THE) biggest "tech youtubers" with a known history of manipulating both the audience and his competitive with a financial interest in Framework Corp doing well.
Hence why people who have followed "tech reviews" for years (... decades. God damn it) have very much noticed that Framework Laptops get treated with kid gloves by a LOT of outlets.
Well I’m disappointed but not surprised.
We will need to build our own alternatives, starting with building a community.
I’m not a leader but I’m dying to help the cause.
Let's not act as if it's wise to be hopeful that any successful company can have decent politics (maybe if it's a worker coop). Spineless liberals is the best we can hope for.
It's just like with Valve and Nintendo: Companies are not your friends!
But let's also not act as if any political issue can be fought only in the language of consumerism. Stop falling for that "vote with your wallet" BS if you want to stop falling for these liberals.
Yeah I don't think you get how this works. They had time to research the tool they are recommending but literally nothing about the backers or community? Framework will absolutely have a legal team whose job would include vetting these orgs.
But let's say you're right and framework is operating a company with no legal counsel (which is also a giant red flag): their response was "we are chill with terrible people in our space, we have a big tent". Not "you're right, we didn't do research on these guys thanks for bringing it to our attention we'll do some research". If they said that, this wouldn't be a thing. Instead, they said affirmatively "we don't care if they are white nationalists, we want to include white nationalists in our tent".
Have you…never had a job?
Yep. And if customers are getting pissed due to charitable donations we are doing....that incurs a significant cost and becomes a massive hurdle for any future charitable donations.
So, as I said, lesson learned: don't support open source projects.
Edit: Next meeting about supporting open source project: "Hey this author has opinion x, anti-x is going to hate that. Let's just spend the money elsewhere."
Following meeting about supporting a different open source project: "Hey, this author has opinion anti-x, x is going to hate that. Let's just spend the money elsewhere."
like this
fif-t likes this.
There's this huge movement in online spaces lately to bash any and all positions and opinions by calling them transphobic.
Vote right? Transphobic. Vote left? Transphobic. Abstain from voting? Transphobic. Support a company? Transphobic. Boycott a company? Transphobic. Indifferent about a company? Transphobic.
The simplest explanation is a bunch of right-wingers are trying to make the term meaningless. Anyway, nowadays when I hear someone is transphobic, I make sure to wait for solid evidence before changing my opinions.
I get your point with the rest but...
Vote right? Transphobic.
Yeah, it kinda is? That's a core plank of the MAGA platform; it's practically inseparable. Unless you're talking non-USA parties but then there's still a better chance than none it's a yes.
I don't even think it "kinda is" I think it fully is. Trans rights are currently against tradition and the status quo, this makes trans rights a progressive topic until the day that trans people are so established in the history of a society that it can't be argued being trans is some new disorder or something.
I hope that one day Trans rights will have been so established globally that to challenge them is anti tradition and uncouth
It has to do with a phenomenon that is censored in most online spaces, so I'll spell it out in capitals, aSjUrIbCoIgDaEl, basically if a person being denied care would cause them to off themselves, then denying care is tantamount to manslaughter.
Post-transition people are reportedly much happier than they were pre-transition, but right-wingers find that icky, so they'd rather commit war crimes than allow medicine to go to those who need it.
What right is that? What care are they being denied?
Also your second paragraph is wrong. They still commit suicide at an enormous rate compared to the rest of the population, many studies showing increases post “transition”.
Also what “war crimes” are you talking about?
Where are the answers? A vague “they will commit suicide” isn’t an answer to “what rights don’t trans people have?”.
I take it you can answer the question, right? Or is your lack of an answer indicative of something?
No, if you think that, your brain is twisted by whatever spin your preferred media choice puts on.
The 2024 election was more about people wanting to see change, and one candidate clearly offering it and the other clearly not. Look at Harris' polling timeline, she was doing well up until the beginning of October, so what happened? For example, she wouldn't change anything from Biden's first term, except having a Republican in the cabinet. Trump took that and ran with that, and I think that describes her support dropping around that time. People were unhappy with Biden's first term, and she wouldn't say anything bad about it. I didn't watch the 60 minutes interview, but I'm guessing that went similarly.
I think most thought Trump was mostly rhetoric except the couple things they cared about. I think most thought he was bluffing about tariffs (or thought they'd work differently), thought he'd actually bring prices down, etc, which explains his cratering support so far. The average voter is kinda dumb/naive, but I don't think they were largely voting on hate against immigrants, trans people, etc.
Trump or Harris: Who’s ahead in the polls?
Tracking the polls in every state and possible paths to electoral college victory for Kamala Harris and Donald TrumpFinancial Times
I dunno I've watched enough of the maga people talk to be pretty confident they just hate the world.
The "this guy will shake things up" argument would make sense if he hadn't already been our single most corrupt president in a generation (until 47)
Ah, yes, there are also the terminally dumb and uneducated. But those people are just weaponized votes. They don't appear to have their own thoughts or agency, just mindless drones following whatever their one podcast or one cable network or their one YouTube guy tells them to do.
But no, there's also plenty of videos of random magas in various formats, and a driving factor for those people appears to be hate (with a healthy mix of not understanding the concept of cause and effect)
I’m talking about your average Joe in the middle that doesn’t really follow politics but was mad at things getting more expensive over Biden’s term.Ah, yes, there are also the terminally dumb and uneducated.
This is the response to people being unhappy prices sharply increased under Biden? People are hardly 'dumb and uneducated' for not liking price increases...
A statement that will always remain relevant: "It's the economy, stupid."
No, they arent dumb for not liking price increases. It's the lack of understanding of cause and effect that makes them dumb, not liking or disliking an effect.
The reason that saying is relevant is because people are stupid. The president has to care about the economy but the reverse is almost never true
Of course as with many situations, trump is the exception to the rule: because congress isn't doing its job and is allowing trump to randomly increase costs by 100% then 50% then 200% then 100% over the course of a single summer, he has had an outsized impact on the economy in a way that no other president has had for generations. And he managed to do it twice, the first time bungling covid so badly that he contributed heavily to the massive inflation we've experienced since he was last in office.
The economy grows on stability, not random acts of chaos, violence, and retribution.
The messaging was:
- Harris - I agree with everything Biden's did and wouldn't change a thing
- Trump - Biden's economy was a mess and I'm going to fix it
What do you expect the average person to take away from that?
Harris ran an awful campaign IMO, so it's not surprising that people opted for the alternative.
To the average voter who doesn't follow things very closely, the options were basically:
- bad, but the same as the previous admin, which did stuff that negatively impacted me
- bad, but different; the last time they were in office, they didn't do things that impacted me too much
Unfortunately, far too many people blame the economy on the sitting President, when they often have little influence on it. Trump was president during an economic boom, and got out just as COVID was going. Biden was president through COVID, and by all accounts was incapable of the job during at least part of his term. What do you expect the average person to do who doesn't follow politics closely but catches bits and pieces closer to the election? Of course they'll go with the person promising change over the person promising the status quo...
Maga? Really? I was very vocal about voting against him in all three elections.
I'm not saying Trump was the better candidate. I'm merely saying Harris ran a poor, tone-deaf campaign.
If you read the rest you'll discover that the reactionaries don't care how you vote, they'll call you that regardless.
I'm taking from the downvotes that there are a lot of people here who got caught up on those first few words and didn't bother reading the rest or engaging their critical thinking skills...
Yes agreed but if you read the whole thing...
There are people in online spaces that just slap the term on ANY opinion.
Want to form a coalition with moderates? Must be transphobic. Refuse to vote Dem because they're not progressive enough? Must be transphobic.
Bluesky is overrun with them. I'd hoped to find a place here where simply existing wasn't stigmatized, but these downvotes are telling me maybe Lemmy is overrun too...
"where simply existing wasn't stigmatized"... Yeah I think that's what most people want including immigrants and trans people. You might need to take a good hard look at yourself for seemingly arguing that a project making it's own community an unsafe space for people is fine but you're the victim because people on blue sky called one too many things transphobic.
Other than that your sob story makes it sound like you're a problematic person and I doubt I'm alone in thinking that. I don't ever remember seeing an excessive amount of accusations of transphobia on bluesky, let alone reddit since it's 80% Russian bots. So maybe, just maybe, the problem is you. Do you maybe have opinions that regularly get you called a transphobe? At least, that's how I read your victim story.
The simplest explanation is a bunch of right-wingers are trying to make the term meaningless.
You had me until this. The term is already meaningless because of the overuse from the left-wingers. No one right of the far-left cares about being called any of the "phobics" or "ists" anymore because they mean nothing now.
Anyway, nowadays when I hear someone is transphobic, I make sure to wait for solid evidence before changing my opinions.
Ok at least you finished on the right note.
I don't think you can advocate for anything even remotely on the "right" in political discussions anymore unless you mean MAGA. That well is so poisoned at this point that everyone is going to assume you're a MAGA troll wearing a mask the second you voice any right-leaning opinion.
It's pretty unfortunate. There are plenty of "live and let live" types in the US that identify informally as libertarians and would make great allies.
DHH is clearly a turd, and I want nothing to do with his projects.
I'm not sure I understand the opposition to Hyprland though. I enjoy using Hyprland, so I've tried to make an informed opinion on whether the project is harmful. Note that I have only reviewed public information, so I might only be seeing the tip of the iceberg.
According to his blog posts, the creator of Hyprland seems to have received criticism well enough (back in 2023). Are other people in the community the main concern or am I missing something? Forgive my ignorance
There were some controversies due to the toxicity of Hpyrland's community (namely its discord server). See this post for example
Edit: I should have read OP's linked post first, which actually also refers to Drew's post.
Yep that's I read from 2023.
He responded in a couple of blog posts:
- blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-h…
- blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-i…
I opened up the discord community just now to see what was there, and I just saw people being goofy and talking shit to each other. In all fairness, I wouldn't hang out there either, but that doesn't mean anything.
To summarize, I don't see the Hyprland devs trying to harm others. Folks like DHH are a different story. Of course this might all change tomorrow - who knows?
Dhh is also a guy who fights apple and google and Microsofts. A guy who says the cloud is stupid, a guy who says American companies will do as instructed by the orange government hence Europe needs to build their own infrastructure and companies.
I am ok with that. Never heard or read about him being a conspiracy nut
Edit: meant to reply to another comment.
Yep that's I read from 2023.He responded in a couple of blog posts:
- blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-h…
- blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-i…I opened up the discord community just now to see what was there, and I just saw people being goofy and talking shit to each other. In all fairness, I wouldn't hang out there either, but that doesn't mean anything.
To summarize, I don't see the Hyprland devs trying to harm others. Folks like DHH are a different story. Of course this might all change tomorrow - who knows?
i do want to point out how hard it is to even find out about the views of these people, if you just look up the names of the projects and aren't specifically looking for this information there's no way you'll find anything about it
even looking up the name of David Heinemeier Hansson, the more vocally bad of these, i had to go to the 5th link to find anything even vaguely mentioning his views
Isn't that a good thing?
I don't know about you, but I don't really care what the views of the owners of a business are. It only becomes a problem if they make those views plain.
Were the views associated with the company? Or was it purely a personal blog?
The distinction matters. Many people are able to separate business from politics, but some are not. The former aren't a concern, the latter definitely are.
Your right. I can't seperate people/business and politics.
Because people take the money from business and advocate for the death of me and my trans community.
I don't see a reason to spereate those two.
The furthest I've seen is advocating for conservative politicians, which is generally for more favorable tax treatment and maybe some more flexibility in what services they need to provide to their employees.
I don't think business owners care about the trans community for good or ill. The only reason it seems that conservatives care at all is because liberals are so vocal about it. And liberals aren't even really pushing for anything to help the trans community, it's mostly lip service.
The real enemy isn't you average conservative voter, but specific politicians pushing a populist agenda, which paints trans people as the enemy. If it wasn't trans people, it would be gay people, some variety of immigrant, etc, the target is less important to the movement, they just need to be weak and unpopular enough for them to get away with it. Again, it's not your average voter, but whoever is pushing that agenda.
Wow. Okay. Thats a really bad response.
The furthest I've seen is advocating for conservative politicians, which is generally for more favorable tax treatment and maybe some more flexibility in what services they need to provide to their employees.
First off, that's still indefensible? Like advocating for less worker safety isn't a good thing right? Or lower pay? Like those are all agreeable bad things for companies to be doing right?
We'll come back to the second "where the money comes from".
I don't think business owners care about the trans community for good or ill.
That's a pretty broad brush there.
Chick-fil-A does a pretty good job of showing you that's not a rule by any means.
The only reason it seems that conservatives care at all is because liberals are so vocal about it. And liberals aren't even really pushing for anything to help the trans community, it's mostly lip service.
This makes no sense, If neither side cares, then why is it a problem?
Also, why are conservatives in your view just reactionary to what every 'liberals' are saying?
The real enemy isn't you average conservative voter, but specific politicians pushing a populist agenda, which paints trans people as the enemy. If it wasn't trans people, it would be gay people, some variety of immigrant, etc, the target is less important to the movement, they just need to be weak and unpopular enough for them to get away with it. Again, it's not your average voter, but whoever is pushing that agenda.
This is so submissive to hate. Heaven forbid we don't tolerate intolerance? This is such dismissive "it's the way it is" talk.
I never said my problem is with the average voter (although the average Republican voter absolutely hate my guts). My problem is with the money that flows. It's the money fueling this hate. So yes, where I spend money has ALWAYS been political. So yes, it matters who my money is funding, and if that fund is funding my danger.
Is Chick Fil A still anti-LGBTQ+? Here’s its full record
From employee discrimination to millions in harmful donations, Chick-fil-A has a long anti-LGBTQ+ history. But how much is still going on?Ryan Adamczeski (Advocate.com)
First off, that’s still indefensible? Like advocating for less worker safety isn’t a good thing right?
I think it makes logical sense. They own a business, so they see everything as a cost, and that includes employee benefits. They're merely voting for their self interests.
And while I likely disagree with them, I think that's how the system should work.
The counter to that should be regular people voting for their self-interests. Average people want better benefits and whatnot, so theoretically politicians should take that into account when crafting policy.
The issue here isn't business owners voting for their self-interest, but a mix of politicians not actually providing good representation and yet still getting reelected (gerrymandering), not having good options (only two candidates are viable), and media spin (again, with only two parties, they need to pick one to get favorable treatment).
why are conservatives in your view just reactionary to what every ‘liberals’ are saying?
That's their purpose. Conservatives are pretty universally against change/in favor of reverting change, while liberals want more change. Sometimes you want one more than the other, depending on what's going on.
The problem is that our political system only has two viable options, so both parties jump all over the place to pick up votes and it's actually unclear why they have the positions they do. For example, Republicans used to be super anti-union (they love representative democracy, but not in the private sphere?), yet they courted labor unions last year. Why? To get swing state voters. They're less about pushing ideas and more about maintaining power.
The real issue isn't conservative voters, but our entire voting system. If we had 5 viable parties, people could effectively vote for the direction they want the country to go. If you don't like the way the GOP is, you should demand more viable options so people can express themselves better.
I think it makes logical sense. They own a business, so they see everything as a cost, and that includes employee benefits. They're merely voting for their self interests.
Can you see how dehumanizing that is? Viewing people as cost?
This is how Nazis start by the way, not viewing people as people
Employees are still people. Business should take care of people, not the other way arround.
That's their purpose. Conservatives are pretty universally against change/in favor of reverting change, while liberals want more change. Sometimes you want one more than the other, depending on what's going on.
Your assumption is that every side serves a purpose. But when we say "hey we shouldn't kill people" and the answer is "shut up libtard" can you see how they don't have a "purpose" other than to spread hate?
And I'm not gonna copy and paste the rest of them comment.
I know who my problem with is, is it's just hate. Not exclusively politicians, anyone who wants to seee dead.
Can I just say, get fucked? Must be nice when your existence isnt political.
Can you see how dehumanizing that is? Viewing people as cost?This is how Nazis start by the way, not viewing people as people
The Nazis are a completely different story. It wasn't that they saw Jews as a cost or as objects, it's that they saw them as less than objects, they viewed them as actively threatening the country. As in, this was active hate, not apathy.
A business owner is primarily concerned with the health of the business, and costs threaten that health. If mandatory benefits are too high, that may threaten the viability of the business, and limits options for competition.
The counter to this is everyone else voting in favor of mandatory benefits and whatnot. If the system is working properly, both sets of voices will be heard and representatives will push for something for both groups.
Your assumption is that every side serves a purpose. But when we say “hey we shouldn’t kill people” and the answer is “shut up libtard” can you see how they don’t have a “purpose” other than to spread hate?
I assume you're talking about gun rights? You're using favorable rhetoric for one side and unfavorable rhetoric for the other. Let's look at their actual policy proposals:
- Dems - ban "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines
- GOP - enforce current laws
"Assault weapons" have consistently been defined as "scary looking guns," and each has an equivalent that is less scary looking and just as effective. High capacity mags are easy to jerry-rig from legal mags, and DIY mags are easy to make with a 3D printer and a spring or two. These types of laws are mostly to grab headlines and get someone reelected, not to actually solve any problem.
Likewise, saying "enforce current laws" requires citizens to actually cooperate with police, and for police to actually deserve that level of trust. They don't lffer any kind of change to police accountability, so this is merely a way to get gun enthusiasts to support them for reelection and not piss off other voters so they can get reelected.
Neither party is actually solving any problems on this issue, they merely speak to their base to get elected. So the rhetoric here should be dismissed, and voters should focus on the issues where the parties are actually interested in doing work (for GOP, it's mostly taxes and regulations, and for Dems it's mostly entitlements and regulations; neither party seems to focus on social issues beyond rhetoric).
If you're talking about something else, then please, elucidate so we can discuss it.
I know who my problem with is, is it’s just hate. Not exclusively politicians, anyone who wants to seee dead.
My point is that the GOP isn't your enemy, nor are they your friend. In a twin party system, you're going to have a party that covers each extreme up to the middle.
If you strongly dislike a given party, don't push against that party (that won't get anywhere), but instead push against the two party system, because that's what allows that party to have the power it does. If third parties were viable, neither the Dems or GOP would exist in their current forms. You'd actually know who your enemies are because they'd out themselves by the party they support.
The Nazis are a completely different story. It wasn't that they saw Jews as a cost or as objects, it's that they saw them as less than objects, they viewed them as actively threatening the country.
I didn't say that's where it ended, it starts with stripping people's humanity away by thinking of them as a number in your record books. Just like your suggesting.
As in, this was active hate, not apathy.
Your going to straight face tell me that this isn't what tump is doing? Rounding up immigrants and trans people as antifa?
It's not apathy right now. It's active hate. Go to any protest and see the right wingers with their attitude. See the Israelites in the US loose their mind on people standing up for Palestinians.
I assume you're talking about gun rights?
No. Human Rights.
When the 'left' calls for and protests for not killing of black (see what Kyle Rittenhouse did), Muslims, immigrants, trans people, ect.. It's always shut up no one cares.
And the GOP only has power, so long as the people that vote for them support them. And they elected a Nazi crew, so yes, my problem is with the people who voted for this hate.
It only becomes a problem if they make those views plain.
Even then, who cares tbh.
Wow I guess if you have to scroll all the way to the fifth whole link it can't possibly be plain, can it?
Sure the business owner thinks anyone who isn't white doesn't count as a person, but he only uses the resources you give him to promote that point of view as a hobby, so why worry?
I don't know, was it a personal blog, some social media post, or a page on the company's website? You didn't specify, and I honestly don't care enough to try to replicate your search.
If they're able to separate personal views from how they run their company, it shouldn't really matter what those views are.
This is the part I'm talking about:
i do want to point out how hard it is to even find out about the views of these people...
even looking up the name of David Heinemeier Hansson, the more vocally bad of these, i had to go to the 5th link to find anything even vaguely mentioning his views
You are not the person I originally responded to, how would you know they were referencing the OP? There aren't even 5 links in the article, and if we count the embedded X posts, the fifth link is about Hyprland. I'm pretty sure that's not what the OP is referring to.
The OP's point is that it's hard to find info on these people's views, and the links in the OP are from other people doing that digging. As in, we likely wouldn't know their views if these bloggers didn't dig through posts looking for it.
You mean big tent politics? That's inevitable with a 2-party system.
That said, theyade a donation to FOSS projects and FOSS shouldn't be political.
I didn't realize framework was a two party system 🙄
Everything is political, that's a ridiculous take.
Using your wallet doesn't have to be political.
Voting is, by definition, political. It is a common part of several different methods of resolving coordination problems (i.e. politics).
No,, voting is only political if it's part of a political process. Everyone in a group voting what kind of pizza to order isn't political, and it can merely be informative (e.g. the person ordering the pizza could pick something else). Voting is only political when it involves government.
"Voting with your wallet" a metaphor. It just means changing your shopping habits so a company loses revenue, usually due to a recent change. Maybe it's a policy you don't like, or maybe it's a drop in quality or something. It's usually not a political act, though it can occasionally impact political policy (e.g. if the boycott is in response to a political change that involves the target company).
Everyone in a group voting what kind of pizza to order isn’t political
Yes, it literally is. That's what politics is: how we control group behavior.
"A methodology and activities associated with running [...] an organization" -- en.wiktionary.org/wiki/politic…
Any organizational decision is politics, including but not limited to a group of people organizing a pizza meal.
You skipped the part that said "government." If you read the rest of the definitions, they all have to do with politics and power, even if they're not governments themselves. So think political parties, PACs, etc. Some non-government entities can have enough power to be comparable to that, such as large companies where maneuvering feels like maneuvering in a government.
Here are other definitions:
All of them are principally about government, or things closely resembling a government. That doesn't leave room for a small laptop manufacturer or small FOSS project, because they don't resemble governments. The same goes for patronizing a business or not, that's not a political act, because we're not dealing with the types of power associated with politics.
It's pretty plain on DHH's blog:
In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third. A statistic as evident as day when you walk the streets of London now.
I wonder what characteristic he uses to define « native brits » that can be seen when walking.
Or just take a look at his twitter. Which Framework obviously did since they retweet a lot of his posts...
A breakdown of DHHs racist post, in case people don't want to look up the original
jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-…
DHH Is Way Worse Than I Thought | jakelazaroff.com
DHH's politics are not normal. Maybe they used to be, I don't know, but as of right now the dude is way outside of what most people would consider moral or acceptable.jakelazaroff.com
This is unfortunate for sure. I want to give them a few days to respond for real, it's always possible they just didn't know about the issues here, but even in that thread they're brushing it off as though it doesn't matter. I'm not really sure what they get out of donating to these projects other than potential PR, anyway.
On a personal level I've recommended their laptops to people who have later bought them, and I was even looking at buying one myself to replace my aging macbook, but I don't think I can do that anymore while this is unaddressed.
I think it's more about repair ability than it is about upgrading. At some point you're going to end up with hardware that needs a different motherboard and then you might as well just replace the whole thing. There really isn't anything that can be done about that.
To be honest I kind of think framework go a bit far on the modularity of the device, it's a nice to have but really I'd be perfectly fine with a laptop that just has a replaceable keyboard, screen and battery, as those pretty much exclusively tend to be the parts that go wrong. Hell you could strip it down even further and just have an easily replaceable battery and it would probably be fine for 90% of people.
I mean, there's no real reason laptops shouldn't like any desktop computer with parts that can be swapped out. Maybe when laptops were first coming on the market with a difficult form factor to work with, but it's been long enough that modularity should be easy and the default.
If you can swap out tiny little SIM cards in a phone, you should be able to slot in standardized, smaller form-factor components like RAM, SSDs, etc.
And by the way, people can and do swap out motherboards all the time for desktops. There is no good reason to need to buy all new components all the time.
Yeah but you can't put a non ATX motherboard in an ATX case it physically doesn't fit.
Unlike desktops where you can get oversized cases laptops are all designed towards the board the really isn't that much space in a framework laptop. Like I don't you could go up a couple of inches and get a bigger screen for example because the whole frame wouldn't fit it.
Hell no, I love that I can just upgrade to a better Mainboard in a couple years
Why would I also ditch all the other components because of a CPU change?
I mean I assume it's because you wouldn't in fact be able to get constant upgrade you'd end up being limited by socket design and things.
There has already been at least one incompatible motherboard upgrade. Essentially a whole new line of framework laptops.
Yup, I'm not s huge fan of the FW12 because of the 3rd format they now have to maintain
But the Mainboard of 12, 13 and 16 are all interchangeable inside their model line
You're not really limited by socket design, as you change out the whole motherboard
The only limit is the physical size inside the case. And maybe thermals
At some point you’re going to end up with hardware that needs a different motherboard and then you might as well just replace the whole thing. There really isn’t anything that can be done about that.
You can just buy a newer, better mainboard on their website and slot it into your existing laptop. No need to change out everything. I fucking love them for that.
Framework Marketplace | Mainboards
See our selection of Mainboards to upgrade your Framework Laptop or build a mini workstation.Framework
I'd imagine Dell or Lenovo would ALSO be giving money to people you disagree with, albeit more secretively. Plus, their laptops are less repairable.
There's no ethical consumption under Capitalism, so you pick the "best" choice; Framework might still be "best", they haven't discarded all their competitive advantage.
I'll probably do System76 for my next laptop, but I was considering Framework for my next phone. I don't expect to need to purchase either soon tho, so lots of time for the decision calculus to change.
agents of shield. someone develops a tech called framework in the second half of the show. hydra is somehow involved, which makes this a great reference that nobody got because that show is criminally underrated.
it's also the best marvel tv show despite being shafted by marvel movies because apparently the heads of movies and tv didn't get along or something.
All this because Hyprland......checks notes......seems to allow free speech on their discord?
Guys.........come on lol. Why do some people try to make absolutely everything political? not just political either, but radical levels of political extremism. Don't judge a company by the things random unaffiliated people say on their forums lol. Hell, even if they are affiliated - who cares? Eat some concrete.
Yes a powerful and influential figure in the open source community using his platform to actively promote racist hate speech is literally identical to a 17 yo at burger king. Truly a brilliant analysis of the situation.
I agree with your last statement unironically.
It's funny how the most loud free speech warriors have the most superficial, performative understanding of free speech.
People get beat up by security services in authoritian regimes for reporting on corruption, but for "FreedomAdvocate" here, free speech is about the right to use slurs on Discord.
There is almost an abstract beauty to this level of debasement and regressivness.
And defending your right to associate with assholes whitout being shamed about it makes you look very much like an asshole.
Your continue in the same style and doubling down on victim-hood polemics.
Of course free speech includes a variety of viewpoints.
I am pointing out that "FreedomAdvocate" has a comically preformative view on free speech. Rejecting people who use the slur "tranny" is not a free speech issue and shows that FA doesn't actually care or believe in free speech.
It's all theatrics to try and show how allegedly independent he is and how is an alleged free thinker.
Embarrassing really.
I don't care if they're selling computers to fascist psychos.
I do care that they're using their soapbox to promote those fascist psychos.
I don’t care if they’re selling computers to fascist psychos.
Depends. If "Framework" became a nazi dog whistle like Lonsdale was a while ago, that alone would be a reason for me to not buy any Framework products.
Wow framework sells a lot of computers to real fascist psychos
A computer company doesn't do a political evaluation of each of their customers. When was the last time you had to submit your political beliefs in order to buy a computer from...anywhere?
Umm, Trump has been forcefully expelling people en masse for quite some time now, and detaining large groups of people in horrible conditions (sound familiar?). Have you not been paying attention?
The regime is absolutely, without a doubt, 100% fascist. It's following the Nazi playbook to a T.
Stop sanewashing his actions.
Palingenetic ultranationalism is a definition of "true fascism" proposed by political theorist Roger Griffin.
So, you are painting with a fairly fine brush there. While "Nazi" is more metaphorical, there are definitely people with authority in the US government that are literally fascists.
I've been thinking similar things. Maybe online platforms, including Lemmy, can be a bit unhealthy.
In the real world, if you say something a bit embarrassing in front of one person, they'll probably forget it after a while. Years later, nobody knows you said it. But on Lemmy, if I tell one person my opinion on a topic, that opinion exists on my profile for the rest of time, unless I delete the comment or my profile.
Is this situation relevant to that example? Are the people in question changed since the time in which the accusations were made?
Rebranding personal ethics and morals as "a purity test" is disingenuous at best.
If you're going to take umbridge with someone's approach at least do it directly instead of this backhanded high horse bullshit.
Wether you like it or not, some people don't have the luxury to stop fighting, even more so right now with so-called democratic governments that brutalize, lock up and torture people for their opinions, their sexuality or their skin color.
Ignore these debates if you wish, and disconnect from social networks if you need to rest. But don’t call for people to stop fighting when their very existence is put at risk by people like DHH, that Framework decided to support.
Sadly, the official discord server appears to also be a cesspool. So the community is also not that great
Which sucks, because omarchy seems to be quite nice
Did the author bother contacting them first before treating them like utter garbage and trying to rile up a public lynch mob? Just because something is well known to you doesn't make it well known to everyone. If there are no alternatives with the feature set you are looking for, then sometimes you even have to overlook questionable authors, sort of like Lemmy. If it's open source and has a license that allows forks, it doesn't matter that much.
You use open source because of functionality. It didn't used to be too long ago when people bothered to prove other people wrong through example instead of persecution. If you never convince people they are wrong, you just favor them creating and being in as much of an echo chamber as yourself. Even when they can't be convinced, there are other people listening to the conversation.
We support open source software (and hardware), and partner with developers and maintainers across the ecosystem. We deliberately create a big tent, because we want open source software to win. We don’t partner based on individuals’ or organizations’ beliefs, values, or political stances outside of their alignment with us on increasing the adoption of open source software.
Even just from looking at it from a practical standpoint, it would sink just about any company if they have to go full FBI investigation for every single member. If you agree with OP so much, then why do you not agree with OP?
perhaps it is indeed best to let it rest for now. i’ll certainly sleep on it now! :slight_smile:
Some people want to watch the world burn bridges.
Did the author bother contacting them first before treating them like utter garbage and trying to rile up a public lynch mob?
Yes, the community.frame.work is the preferred method for asking questions to Framework (see: frame.work/support), and the first post makes a few statements about non-Framework persons/projects and Framework has sponsored, and asks one question to Framework.
So, if you'd read the damn post, you'd know this is exactly how Framework asks to be engaged.
Assistance
Accédez à l'assistance de Framework pour obtenir des informations, des guides sur le remplacement et plus encore.Framework
You mean the post that literally says otherwise and that the quote from OP I had in my original comment agreed with?
Thanks, I appreciate you also replying in good faith. I don’t think this is likely to be a topic we’ll be able to come to alignment on within a community thread. We’re unfortunately in a world where it’s hard to have nuanced discussion, even if we preemptively agree on 95% of topics and want to discuss the remaining 5%, in a public forum.-nrp
perhaps it is indeed best to let it rest for now. i’ll certainly sleep on it now! :slight_smile:
-anarcat
Yes, I can see the reading is strong with you.
I can't even imagine the fundamentally flawed view of the world to think the best way to solve an issue like this is to first go through a public forum. Are you named Karen, by any chance?
Even in what you quoted, Framework has provided no more preferred communication method for this discussion.
No, my name is Stephen.
Because mod or alt mod removed it:
You mean the post that literally says otherwise and that the quote from OP I had in my original comment agreed with?
Thanks, I appreciate you also replying in good faith. I don’t think this is likely to be a topic we’ll be able to come to alignment on within a community thread. We’re unfortunately in a world where it’s hard to have nuanced discussion, even if we preemptively agree on 95% of topics and want to discuss the remaining 5%, in a public forum.
-nrpperhaps it is indeed best to let it rest for now. i’ll certainly sleep on it now! :slight_smile:
-anarcat
I can't even imagine the fundamentally flawed view of the world to think the best way to solve an issue like this is to first go through a public forum.
I'll excuse the rest of the comment, but check out the modlogs if you want to do so. Guess rule 3 is enforced directionally.
Contact Us
Need to submit a support request, ask the Community, or have a press inquiry? Here are some ways you can contact the Framework team.Framework
I can't even imagine the fundamentally flawed view of the world to think the best way to solve an issue like this is to first go through a public forum.
Pretty sure I've made my opinion clear. Well, at least before you were offended by a slight comment and tried to and successfully removed the comment with the context. So much for public forums then, huh. The page has a direct way of contacting them through email for more sensitive issues like this, you are the one choosing to skip the option.
EDIT: ... Yes, should have been clear with the edit I made, although it was a description that aptly applied to your behavior and that of the people I criticized. Meanwhile you get off ranting "if you’d read the damn post" and that's apparently hunky dory. Yeah, no, sometimes mod's biases are quite clear, and with these sort of biases you have people downvoting with no comment history or activity whatsoever. Just saying, some people want to watch the world burn bridges.
I can't remove anything. I not a mod or admin of anything throughout the Fediverse. I think I can delete my own posts, but that might (and probably should) leave a deletion log similar to the edit log. (Actually the delete log should just be an edit log that ends with "DELETED".)
EDIT: The mod log says the comment violated rule 3. I think the part of your comment using a common name as an indirect insult might have not "be[en] excellent to" me, but that's just a guess.
ദ്ദി, but your evaluation means nothing to me but subjective hearsay.
Here is what responding in the actually proper context looks like: reddit.com/r/framework/comment…
I work for a fascist. He's my father. Fox is on his TV in his office beside mine right now. I suppose most would hate me if they knew that without knowing I cancel his vote out every time.
This might be a similar kind of situation.
I think there's a fundamental asymmetry between receiving resources from persons you disagree with and providing resources to persons you disagree with. As long as your tasks aren't doing fascism, I think it's fine to get paid by (i.e. take money away from) fascists. But, no matter what you might get from persons with bad politics, if you transfer resources to them, they are going to use those resources to pursue those bad politics.
(BTW, Fox isn't right-wing enough for the real fascists; too many facts. OAN is what they watch, I think.)
if you transfer resources to them
I get what you're saying here and mostly agree, but just want to point out that you are transferring a resource - your labour. So it is a bit more nuanced than this.
100% agreed. Just accepting business from an "out and proud" fascist, even if the task you were doing for them was community service, could be normalizing their "brand" enough that it's not worth doing. Selling ad space/time is also very questionable; tho, you might offset that with bumpers that let people know you what you actually think of the persons that bought the ad. Nuance is the rule, and two people that agree on moral principles might still do the moral calculus for any particular trade differently.
But, I don't think we need to (e.g.) add field of endeavor restrictions to our software licenses just to deny bad actors the same access we give to all other users/distributors universally. I don't think morally repugnant persons should be left out of food or housing programs or UBI. The fact that morally disagreeable people can buy a Framework is totally immaterial. The fact that among all the (nigh innumerable) software projects that Framework uses, they choose to directly support one (or more) where the people taking control of those resources are morally disagreable is a concern.
I would say most of the customers of Framework are the kinds of people who espouse the kind of antifascist ideology that that guy that started the thread does.
I don't think that the fascist sympathizer circle and the "willing to pay more money for an ethical laptop that isn't beholden to a big corporation for repair" circles have much overlap.
This is easy, "Framework doesn't support fascism or racism in any form. We support open source software and right to repair. Due to concerns with ideology in some of the projects we sponsor we are reviewing the projects we sponsor to make sure that they align with our values as a company."
The fact that they aren't willing to say so says plenty.
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Exactly. While I appreciate that a stock corporate “we’re looking into it and will complete our investigation right after you forget about it” would likely not go over well here, the response they issued basically made the concerns seem like a low priority.
Giving money to right wingers is no longer an issue of differing opinions. It’s literally arming the people that want people like me dead. I can’t dismiss that to keep the peace. I can’t just sit here and say “fine, I will allow myself and my entire community to be snuffed out quietly because it’s more convenient for you.”
The poster’s concerns were clear and vivid. Easily understood. And immediately dismissed.
It’s unbearably frustrating that so many in the world are think the complaints of those being oppressed aren’t important. I keep getting the response of “who cares, you’ll be dead soon anyway and then this argument won’t matter”
While I agree in principle, the response from the CEO, was: only like 5% of people we give money to are ~~racist Nazi bigots~~ "controversial", let's agree to disagree and move on.
Which is massive narcissitic, non-empathic behaviour. It's giving me less "you don't matter because soon you'll be dead"-vibes and more "I am literally unable to understand your concerns and empathise with you"-vibe, which to me personally is much more damning.
I'm posting my take here before reading any comments, but I will be looking for validation or good counter arguments:
This feels like Framework admitting that the opensource community is too small to exclude anyone, or maybe that they feel they can't exclude anyone because doing so would damage their ability to do business? I'm not picking up a "we love nazis" vibe, I'm picking up a "nazis are fucking everywhere, what do you want us to do, for fucks sake" vibe.
I don't know how I feel about that yet.
Yeah I agree completely with that sentiment.
Maybe they didn't know before, but they definitely know now. It'll be interesting to see how they respond going forward.
The elephant in the room more people need to pay attention to that many of us who work in IT are painfully intimate with.
Many IT people are hardcore libertarians who believe in some warped idea that they are where they are through their intelligence and hardwork while completely ignoring many of them come from backgrounds that afforded them the opportunities they are taking advantage of.
100% many of them are sexist, racist and bigoted pieces of shit that hide it at work because they're adept at masking the fact that a lot of them are borderline autistic at worst and neurodivergent at best.
This is also why you see such a deep investment in idiocy like AI, Bitcoin and other paradigm shifts. They all have their heads up their asses and feel they're better than everyone else.
Couple all this with the demographic being primarily white males.
Fuck talk to any woman who works in IT. It's changing yes, but Jesus Christ it's a cesspool in many ways.
Source: 25+ years in IT
At my company, most of the IT team are hardcore Trump supporters who do not see a problem with working with LGBTQIA people and being polite to their face, while also wanting them to have less rights.
Yes, they are all white men. And yes, all of them will tell you how hard they worked to get there, completely oblivious of how much an advantage they got to get there.
Many IT people are hardcore libertarians who believe in some warped idea that they are where they are through their intelligence and hardwork while completely ignoring many of them come from backgrounds that afforded them the opportunities they are taking advantage of.
I was this person. It is possible to reform, but it takes genuine curiosity and willingness to be wrong. Neither of those is rewarded by the IT environment of the last 30 years.
White dude in software here to echo the same sentiment. So many of my colleagues have never experienced any hardship of their own or viewpoints of people with different experiences. They don't think about how their privilege has helped them get where they are, and how their company culture often subtly (at best!) reinforces their worldview and massages their egos. They've never tried to think critically about their "meritocracy" or "libertarian" beliefs and how many people are unjustly excluded from the lifestyle they enjoy.
20 years in software development for me.
Who cares? This is just an attempt to censor things you don't like so that other people don't get to see them.
Grow up.
Huh? This has nothing to do with censorship. You can still see the abhorrent takes from DHH or vaxry if you so choose. We are just asking framework to not support them monetarily.
Stop calling any act of criticism censorship, grow up.
As an avid gamer, it’s ANNOYING AS FUCK.
When a new game is out, I want to know about bugs and performance, not whether or not the writing is ‘woke’, what characters are LGBTQ or how somehow any other aspect of it is related to this culture war. Fuck off with that far right bullshit.
Gaming forums should be about games. Leave politics and other bullshit out of it.
These days I just look at YouTube reviews and skip Steam’s comment section for at least a month after launch.
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tbh, the hyperland thing is, for me personally, not too dramatic. Like there was a failure in moderation and response, but "a manufacturer that supports an floss project that has a discord channel where a mod changed the pronouns of a user and the admin of said channel didn't respond harshly enough" sounds "forgiveable". Not ideal, but also not super dramatic.
DHH on the other hand 😅😂...
drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/202…
P.S. you are right. Google has gotten so much worse compared just a year ago. I had no trouble finding this back then, now I have to dig.
Thanks 😁
Okay, first of all, I agree with the general sentiment. You should not donate money to facists. Which DHH clearly is. (I mean, it's absurd that we even have to talk about this in 2025, right? 😅) Just to be completely clear here.
I also agree that the hyperland community is full of assholes. However, being an ignorant asshole is different from being a fascist. If you read the blog of that hyperland guy, I get clearly the picture of an arrogant priviledged dude. However, he does not appear to be a nazi. (I wouldn't hang around with him, but he is not a fascist.)
And for me personally, that doesn't qualify for a boycott. If we draw the line there, boy would we end up with a lot of services to boycott. Even Linus Torvalds himself is kinda a dick at times (a differen kind yes, but still). Richard Stallman is bonkers. Don't get me started on Mark Shuttleworth. However, that doesn't mean that they are fascists and we need to exclude them from our communities. It doesn't mean that any corp donating to the Linux Foundation is evil and need to be boycotted.
Again, the argument against FW still stands because of DHH and their poor handling of the situation. But honestly, continuing to use hyprland in general is okay in my eyes. Supporting them with money is a bit more nuanced of course, but doesn't qualify to get cancelled.
Got the source web.archive.org/web/2025092505…
Money quote:
You can sometimes be forgiven for thinking that all of Britain is lost in self-loathing, shame, and suicidal empathy.
As I remember London
As soon as I was old enough to travel on my own, London was where I wanted to go. Compared to Copenhagen at the time, there was something so majestic about Big Ben, Trafalgar Square, and even the Tube around the turn of the millenium.web.archive.org
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Caparezza torna con “Io sono il viaggio”, primo singolo da Orbit Orbit
Dopo aver annunciato il suo attesissimo ritorno dal vivo per l’estate 2025, Caparezza sorprende ancora una volta i fan con un nuovo singolo: “Io sono il viaggio”.
ASCOLTA QUI: Caparezza torna con “Io sono il viaggio”, primo singolo da Orbit Orbit
Caparezza, “Io sono il viaggio”: primo singolo da Orbit Orbit | Atom Heart Magazine
Caparezza presenta “Io sono il viaggio”, il nuovo singolo tratto dall’album Orbit Orbit, in uscita il 31 ottobre con un fumetto.Redazione (Atom Heart Magazine)
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wroclaw off gallery weekend 2025
17-19 października:
odczas WOGW #3 do swoich miejsc i działań zaproszą następujące inicjatywy:
Bazar Bizarre, BREDNIE, CHWILÓWKA, Dawna Drukarnia PAN, ERZAC, Galeria Kanał, Galeria Magiel, Galeria Nicponiej, Galeria pod Żabicą, Galeria u Kosałki, GUA Collective, Kombinat, Kościół Nihilistów, Łzy Kobry, Muzeum w podziemiu, NOWY ZŁOTY, Pałacyk Powstańców Śląskich, Pracownia Hutmen, Pracownia Miłoszycka, Pracownia Siostrzana, Serwis Galeria – Pracownia, STYRTA
+ Forma Otwarta Oleśnica (wydarzenie towarzyszące)
google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=1Q…
Wrocław Off Gallery Weekend – mapa miejsc 2025 – Google My Maps
17-19 października 2025 linktr.ee/wroclawoffgalleryweekendGoogle My Maps
BREAKING: Hamas and Palestinian Factions Agree to Gaza Ceasefire Framework
There is no other deal to be taken. Either this or return to fight with full American support coupled with Arab and Islamic passivity and let-down,” said the source close to the negotiators. He said that while the deal is problematic, it contains some terms that Hamas and other Palestinian factions pushed for in their response to Trump, including deferring major issues that would alter the future of Gaza and Palestine itself. “No surrender, no disarming, no mass exile, but most of all a permanent end to the war to be announced by Trump.”
When Hamas offered its official response to Trump’s 20-point plan last Friday, the movement’s leadership took the position that it only had a mandate to enter into a deal on issues directly related to the Gaza war. But it asserted that negotiations on the bulk of Trump’s proposal—which contains sweeping terms that will impact the future governance of Gaza, including demilitarizing and disarming Gaza and the deployment of foreign troops—would require the involvement of all Palestinian factions, not just Hamas.
All of these issues, including Israel’s demand that Hamas and other Palestinian resistance groups surrender their weapons and Gaza be fully demilitarized, will be deferred to future negotiations. “The next round of negotiations will be very tricky but going back to genocide will not be easy, even though it’s probable,” said the source close to the Palestinian negotiators. The internal calculus among the lead negotiators, he said, was “the cost-benefit analysis would favor accepting it. The next negotiations must be conducted in a very smart way.”
BREAKING: Hamas and Palestinian Factions Agree to Gaza Ceasefire Framework
“From our side, yes,” a senior Hamas official told Drop Site News.Jeremy Scahill (Drop Site News)
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Are there any left by now?
Also i have been assured that the hospitals once treated someone suspected to be part of Hamas. So they have now been officially declared a Hamas Terrorist Control Center.
”Libera Folio volas ŝoki, skui, ataki”
Mireille Grosjean kune kun Zdravka Boytcheva sendis por publikigo siajn kritikajn vidpunktojn pri Libera Folio. Ni aperigas la tekston en formo de vidpunkta artikolo, kune kun mallonga komento de la redakcio.
liberafolio.org/2025/10/08/lib…
Very niche PDF books, but in Spanish
There are these 3 books about dressmaking that are very out of print.
In English it took me 2 minutes to find them, but in Spanish there's not a trace and I know for sure that for at least the first two there are PDFs floating around somewhere.
All this made me realise that when I'm looking stuff in Spanish I don't have any idea on where to look.
Edit: Thanks, I learned a lot. Unfortunately that book I'm looking for is nowhere, at least in Spanish. But not all is lost, apparently there's a public library at a 30 minutes drive from home that has it, I could go borrow it and scan it myself.
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I just realised that I've seen those four letter many times and never looked into that site.
That was a bit overwhelming, I'll have to look again more calmly on PC when I get home.
Thanks!
epublibre is where I go. If you're in Spain I think you can't access it without a VPN. Dot org.
Edit: Oh, and they usually don't have new books.
Trump says Israel and Hamas sign off on first phase of Gaza ceasefire plan
Trump says Israel and Hamas sign off on first phase of Gaza ceasefire plan
Mediator Qatar said that more details of the agreement would be announced at a later date.News Agencies (Al Jazeera)
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So after two years, this seems to be it. I am happy for the Palestinians as they can go to bed without wondering if they'll be alive for the first time in years.
But that it had to come this far is a shame on humanity. Shame on the lack of action from our governments. From all the people that looked away.
Respect to all the comrades who were there, with me, with us all, at the protests and the actions, getting beaten and arrested. To all the people trying to do something about this atrocity.
Whether Israel will follow through on the ceasefire, only time can tell.
Death to Israel as always.
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However, attacks won't cease if there's no two-states implementation, there'd be no reason to.
Fewer Israelis support Israel taking over Gaza now than in 2024
A third of Israeli adults say Israel should govern Gaza, down from 40% in 2024.Beshay (Pew Research Center)
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Poll Shows Majority of Israelis Support Expelling Gazans
A Grim Poll Showed Most Israelis Support Expelling Gazans.Haaretz.comDahlia ScheindlinJun 3, 2025In 2014, when Jewish Israelis kidnapped and immolated Mohammed Abu Khdeir, a Palestinian teenager from East Jerusalem, many Israelis were shocked and ash…Haaretz (genocidewatch)
Poll: 82% of Israelis want to expel Palestinians from Gaza; 47% want to kill every man, woman, child - Geopolitical Economy Report
Poll found 82% of full citizens of Israel want expel Palestinians from Gaza. 47% support killing every single man, woman, and child in Gaza.Ben Norton (Geopolitical Economy Report)
If you want to find someone supporting Israel, then don't stay on Lemmygrad, i didn't thought for a second that the comment i posted was pro-israel.
Even if i wanted to defend Israel i wouldn't be allowed to anyway, i wouldn't want to be banned again for stupid reasons, just note that 78% of jewish israelis believe that Israel is trying to avoid civilian deaths, because they're brainwashed by their environment&medias(, to the point of somehow believing to be the victims here), surprise.
If people here oppose collective punishments then be coherent and don't wish it on israelis. Or do, i'm not your mom, end of the discussion for me.
Large Majority of Jewish Israelis: Israel Making Substantial Efforts to Avoid Palestinian Suffering; Majority of Arab Israelis Disagree
78% of Jewish Israelis and 22.5% of Arab Israelis think that, given the circumstances of the fighting in Gaza, Israel is making efforts to avoid causing suffering to the Palestinian population there.en.idi.org.il
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Thoughts on this ?
— Important note on the hostages:Some people keep saying that Hamas should not release all the Israeli hostages because it's their 'last leverage' against Israel.
What good has this 'leverage' done for Gaza in the past few months? Has Israel held back from committing genocide and massacring the Palestinians? No. Not at all.
In fact, the hostages are currently only being used as an excuse for Israel to keep bombing Gaza and commit further massacres in the name of 'bringing home the hostages'. They have outlived their usefulness for a long time.
If Hamas releases the hostages and Israel still continues the genocide, then the situation won't be 'worse' than before, because the genocide is already happening right now. The situation will be the same as it is now.
The only thing that will be different, is that it will show the world that it was never about the hostages in the first place.
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We will find out in the coming days or weeks if the hostages were of any value. It is clear that israel did not give a shit about them apart from those inconsequential protests by the taken's kin. Once the hostages are returned, we can gauge israel's actions to see whether keeping the hostages around served a purpose.
In fact, the hostages are currently only being used as an excuse for Israel to keep bombing Gaza
This is total bs. They would have done what they did either way.
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Public discourse was calling Palestinians violent terrorists long before October 7th.
This is true. The pro-Zionist media was always going to find ways to justify the genocide one way or another.
There is no value in trying to win the hearts and minds of residents of israel's patron states.
This I don't agree with. Pro-Palestine protests and direct action have played a role in pressuring Western governments.
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Hope for Palestinians finally being able to go to sleep without having to worry about being massacred? Indispensable. But as many keep pointing out, neither rules nor international law mean anything to the Zionist entity, so there's no knowing if this will just turn out to be all smoke and mirrors.
...and this is not on Palestinian terms, but entirely on imperialist terms aimed at their advantage. Surprise surprise. The US, its lapdogs, the UK and regional comprador states (Egypt, Jordan, Gulf states), and the Zionist entity aim for it to be managed like a colonial territory where Palestinians are being managed akin to past Western colonized territories, and they'd love to turn Gaza into a tax haven and money-laundering hub for billionaire war profiteering capitalists. An Eastern Mediterranean Monaco, if you will.
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burning petro dollars vs renewable commodities
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_…
China is in first place with 32% of global renewable electricity production. They have built more solar capacity than the rest of the world has ever had installed in one year. No other countries are anywhere close to the green acceleration they have purposefully spearheaded for themselves and the world.
placing it near Poland
and well above the US, France and Japan
per capita consumption mix is probably a more useful comparison
ourworldindata.org/grapher/per…
I'd really like to see a graph with per GDP energy consumption mix as well. Most of the countries with better mix than China have a fraction of the GDP.
They just recognized that selling solar pannels and stuff to othercountries is very profitable.
If it was very profitable, countries and companies would be falling over each other to do it.
if you can’t stuff the sun into barrels and sell it for outrageous profits
For anyone that's not twigged it yet
They're already turning this into another culture war to ensure they can continue to enrich the establishment.
The petrochemical industry has a lot of money to burn on propaganda if it's facing an existential threat.
Remember this when you read anything other than "we should be decarbonising as quickly as possible"
The best thing for everyone (in basically every possible way) except petrochemical shareholders is heavy investment in renewable technology and the ending of petrochemical subsidies.
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you have to laugh at the absurdity of the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to genocide & suppression; especially so when the american pot is SO MUCH blacker than the chinese kettle.
and laughing becomes a coping strategy when an overwhelming majority of americans and other westerners have swallowed so much propaganda that they willfully & sometimes violently remain ignorant of it.
¿por que no lo dos?
Both are terrible. But in the light of the absolute state of the world, China's a much lesser evil.
genocide
Wasn't there a pic of Xinjiang and Gaza being shared to show that this was western exaggeration and blame shifting?
No, China is not commiting genocide. The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective's Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.
I also recommend reading the UN report and China's response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.
Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time as well. You can watch , though it obviously isn't going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this. Even with all of the real complexities, though, nothing material measures up to claims of genocide.
As for "freedom of speech," it's largely capitalist speech that is suppressed. As class struggle is very much alive in China, they can't let the bourgeoisie take control of the media and manufacture consent for its own ends.
Xinjiang: A Report and Resource Compilation
Western governments have levied false allegations of genocide and slavery in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. A closer look makes clear that the politicization of China’s anti-terrorism policies in Xinjiang is another front of the U.S.Qiao Collective
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Ibama capitulates over oil drilling in the Foz do Amazonas - SUMAÚMA
Under pressure from the Lula administration and Congress, the head of the environmental agency has overruled 29 technical experts and approved the penultimate requirement for Petrobras to drill offshore from the AmazonNatália Chagas (SUMAÚMA)
to be fair the brazilian petrol company is mostly controlled by gringos at this point.
after temer and bolsonaro furthered its privatization, i mean.
Green energy is good, but I'm sceptical of China's intentions these days. They seem to have a pretty aggressive stance towards other countries, as seen in their handling of the nine-dash line.
I just get the sense that China is less interested in helping the whole world, and more interested in subjugating the whole world.
Issues Installing ProtonVPN Official App on Bazzite through Distrobox
I'm a linux newbie and would really appreciate some help here.
I'm on bazzite and want to install protonvpn. Ideally the official app, not flatpak, so I can use the apparantly newly added split-tunneling.
Previously i installed both protonvpn-cli and the gui version, "layered on top of rpm-ostree" as far as I understand it. And thats actually not desireable? I think i removed those.
Now i entered my distrobox, which is better for this(?), and followed these instructions:
protonvpn.com/support/official…
These commands are the ones I used:
wget "https://repo.protonvpn.com/fedora-$(cat /etc/fedora-release | cut -d' ' -f 3)-stable/protonvpn-stable-release/protonvpn-stable-release-1.0.3-1.noarch.rpm"
sudo dnf install ./protonvpn-stable-release-1.0.3-1.noarch.rpm && sudo dnf check-update --refresh
sudo dnf install proton-vpn-gnome-desktop
sudo dnf install libappindicator-gtk3 gnome-shell-extension-appindicator gnome-extensions-app
(the last one is supposed to install the system tray icon)
But protonvpn is nowhere to be found.
(protonvpn --version doesnt show anything.)
Any suggestions or resources that might help me?
How to install Proton VPN on Fedora | Proton VPN
How to install the ProtonVPN Linux VPN app on Fedora systemsProton VPN
I hope this is the correct link: distrobox.it/usage/distrobox-e…
The official installation process won't work, as Bazzite is an immutable distro.
You can install it with rpm-ostree. If you choose to do so, I invite you to look into what immutable distros are, and what problems they solve (and create).
I was curious and searched if it was more complicated than it looked for ProtonVPN. It doesn't look complicated, but it is not very straightforward either.
You can find how to do it in the comment of this reddit post
🇵🇸✨Celebrations breaks out across Gaza as Israel and Hamas officially sign the first phase of the ceasefire agreement.
Video link -> video.twimg.com/amplify_video/…
Source -> xcancel.com/Nexo_Latino/status…
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The Palestinians know just how untrustworthy Israel is.
But even a single day where they don’t have to worry about a bomb being dropped on their head is enough for them to celebrate.
That’s how low that bar is. I am ashamed to live in a world where that’s the case.
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Caltech team sets record with 6,100 qubit array
Caltech Team Sets Record with 6,100-Qubit Array
The neutral-atom platform shows promise for scaling up quantum computers.California Institute of Technology
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At that size it should be capable of solving significant problems, but there absolutely no mention of what it could be applied to.
Whilst building it is interesting and an achievement, it's greatly diminished if nobody does anything with it.
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The achievement in question is the preparation of the neutral atoms, which realize qubits, on this grid.
Controlling the placement of such a large number of individual atoms with just light is a somewhat recent breakthrough that is now maturing.
Addressing the atoms and letting them interact is an entirely different beast, but the prerequisite of placement is just as important.
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California enacts law to universally opt out of data sharing
California enacts law giving consumers ability to universally opt out of data sharing
The California Consumer Privacy Act, signed in 2018, gave Californians the right to send opt-out signals, but major browsers have not had to make opt-outs simple to use.Suzanne Smalley (The Record)
Native American Youth Face Type II Diabetes Rates Up to 64 Times Higher Than Non-Native Peers
Native American youth have Type II diabetes at a rate up to 64 times their non-Native peers. That's according to a systematic review published last week in Diabetologia, a peer-reviewed medical journal on diabetes.The review extracted data from 49 studies conducted between 1978 and 2019 on the prevalence of type II diabetes in the Aboriginal, First Nation and American Indian/Alaska Native populations. It included data from at least 15 distinct Native American studies across multiple regions, including the Great Plains, Navajo Nation, Cherokee Nation, Northern Plains Indians, and various Indian Health Service reservations.
Youth from the Akimel O'odham & Tohono O'odham and Gila River Indian Communities showed the highest prevalence of Type II diabetes at 6.4%
Young Native women bear the highest burden of the disease, with AI/AN female youth having diabetes at rates 77% higher than their male counterparts.
Native youth also experience worse outcomes with diabetes, suffering higher mortality rates compared to non-Indigenous youth, even with similar age at diagnosis and disease duration, pointing to gaps in healthcare accessibility.
Diabetes in AI/AN youth has only worsened in the past four decades. Across Native communities included in the review, the disease has risen 3-8 times since 1980.
The review noted that a handful of the studies included used data from the Indian Health Service records, which may have resulted in the prevalence of the disease being underestimated due to barriers in access to care.
Native American Youth Face Type II Diabetes Rates Up to 64 Times Higher Than Non-Native Peers
Native American youth have Type II diabetes at a rate up to 64 times their non-Native peers. That's according to a systematic review published last week in Diabetologia, a peer-reviewed medical journal on diabetes.Elyse Wild (Native News Online)
Any general-purpose instance with 1000+ character limit?
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Stephen Miller Cited ‘Plenary Authority,’ Then Paused. Conspiracies Started Flying.
Online skeptics wondered if Mr. Miller had caught himself saying something he did not mean to. CNN says there was a technical glitch.
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[Patch Notes] 0.3.1b Patchnotes
0.3.1b Patchnotes
- Second Wind III Support now only recovers life if the supported skill actually consumes a cooldown use.
- Fixed an issue where the Ground Effects for the Flaming, Sleet, and Shocking Map Modifiers did not receive the reduced frequency changes from the 0.3.1 patch. Existing modifiers on Waystones will not be affected by this change.
- Fixed a bug where stats that increased the chance of encountering specific content in maps were only increasing the chance relative to other content, and not increasing the amount of content encountered overall.
- Fixed a bug where Minion Instability was able to trigger on Spectres that had been removed after weapon swapping.
- Fixed a bug where the Infernalist's Altered Flesh Skill did not display stats on the character sheet correctly.
- Fixed an issue where Explosive Spear and Storm Lance were thrown at the character's feet when no enemy was targeted while using a controller.
- Fixed an issue where characters could get stuck in unwalkable terrain in the final phase of the Vessel of Kulemak fight.
- Fixed a bug which allowed you to 'upgrade' Runes, Liquid Emotions and Catalysts in the Essence Stash Tab, which could cause items to be deleted in certain cases.
- Fixed an issue where The Pale Angel could not spawn as a Corrupted Nexus boss.
- Fixed an issue where the Cruel Hegemony Unique Tablet did not sell to vendors for the correct amount of Gold.
- Fixed an issue where some guild microtransactions were not usable on all platforms.
- Fixed 2 client crashes.
Early Access Patch Notes - 0.3.1b Patchnotes - Forum - Path of Exile
Path of Exile is a free online-only action RPG under development by Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand.Path of Exile
[Announcement] Rise of the Abyssal Supporter Packs Concept Art
The recently released Rise of the Abyssal Supporter Packs include the Trarthan Executioner and the Justice series, featuring a variety of exclusive microtransactions. We know you always appreciate the work of our artists, so in this post we've gathered some pieces of concept art for these supporter packs created by our art team. Check them out below!
Cruel Trarthan Executioner Armour Pack
Carrion Raptor Pet
Pulveriser Map Device
Apostle of Justice Armour Pack
Apostle of Justice Back Attachment
Banner of Justice Portal
Griffin Fledgling Pet
Sphinx Mystic Hideout Decoration
Early Access Announcements - Rise of the Abyssal Supporter Packs Concept Art - Forum - Path of Exile
Path of Exile is a free online-only action RPG under development by Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand.Path of Exile
Just learned about hexbear being defederated.
Parola filtrata: nsfw
I’ve had two major issues with these guys. While not necessarily worth defederating everyone, I really don’t want to deal with hexbear because:
- ALL of their content is political. When they first showed up on my feed, I watched what posts/communities came up and how their users interacted on non hexbear posts. I’ve done my best to remove all politics from my social media. These guys only talked about politics and would go to other communities to turn a normal conversation political.
- Everything was extreme and obnoxious. I don’t understand why everyone keeps calling them polite. There was a constant “you’re with us or you’re against us”/“my beliefs are always right” behavior that was really annoying, especially in a public space that wasn’t polarized before they got there. It reminded me of this one girl from middle school who would walk into a room and loudly talk about whatever she wanted until all the other conversations petered out.
They’re more than welcome to behave like that in their home, but they can’t go to a public space and expect everyone to cater to their beliefs.
From the admin on a post in Jan 2024.
While I do appreciate offering the reasoning on the matter, I'm quite surprised since I checked all banned instances and hexbear seemed like an oddity amongst the mix.
Perhaps it's so long ago that I dont remember the issues.
But to categorise the banned instances we have the likes of:
* threads
* Lemmynsfw
* maga.place
And the odd inclusion of one big instance which to me certainly feels like any average instance. Certainly no worse than lemmy.ml
Ofc its not my instance, I'm just bringing this up for reconsideration. If you don't wanna deal with it thats your decision to make. But it certainly feels unnecessary from the outside. Especially when so many nation based comms here post political content and so do most lemmy instances.
Sincerely,
PinkyCoyote/ SnokenKeekaGuard.
User and mod on this instance.
Trump says Israel and Hamas have 'both signed off' in first phase of Gaza ceasefire plan
Trump says Israel and Hamas have 'both signed off' on first phase of Gaza ceasefire plan
US President Donald Trump announced late on Wednesday that Israel and the Palestinian movement Hamas had "both signed off" on the "first phase" of a plan to end the two-year genocidal war on Gaza.Faisal Edroos (Middle East Eye)
trovate di pazzia tra i rifiuti della mia esistenza (dalla mia tastiera esce di tutto)
Nell’arco di pochi giorni, qualche settimana scarsa, le mie giornate sono diventate così tanto credo noiose che iniziano a spuntarmi fuori riflessioni assurde… vorrei stare infinitamente nel lettino a dormire, perché fa freddo e fa buio prima, e tutto ciò fa un pochino male all’anima (soprattutto il freddo, sto ferma e ho freddo, mi muovo […]
octospacc.altervista.org/2025/…
trovate di pazzia tra i rifiuti della mia esistenza (dalla mia tastiera esce di tutto)
Nell’arco di pochi giorni, qualche settimana scarsa, le mie giornate sono diventate così tanto credo noiose che iniziano a spuntarmi fuori riflessioni assurde… vorrei stare infinitamente nel lettino a dormire, perché fa freddo e fa buio prima, e tutto ciò fa un pochino male all’anima (soprattutto il freddo, sto ferma e ho freddo, mi muovo in casa e il vento che creo muovendo l’aria mi fa freddo, non ce la posso fare), e le altre cose rimangono difficilmente in primo piano… ma, se questo mi porterà ad andare a dormire prima per stare in coma più a lungo, forse è meglio, tanto non è che ho molto da fare la sera… ben 2 post di recupero per i miei manga li ho scritti, e tanto domani mattina mi piazzo col PC a lezione e programmo come se fossi a casa, e tutto si ripeterà così all’infinito… 😤Ah ma, attenzione, ho divagato; le riflessioni assurde di questa sera non sono quelle di cui sopra, che tutto sommato non penso si possano nemmeno tanto etichettare come anormali, bensì… che minchia di roba esce dalla tastiera (a membrana, maledetta, mannaggia alla miseria) del PC? No, non è un pensiero che non c’entra assolutamente nulla con tutto il suddetto, perché in effetti usando meno il PC fisso ultimamente — ma in realtà, stando meno alla scrivania in generale, visto che troppi giorni sto fuori — dovrebbe accumularsi meno roba strana, e invece… scuotendola tra ieri sera e poco fa è uscito tutto questo bel tesoretto di roba (almeno, bello per chi apprezza il discarica-core, credo)… 🤢
…Peli minuscoli che mi tiro dalla faccia mentre faccio altro ed evidentemente ogni tanto finiscono anche lì in mezzo, quelli che sembrano pezzetti di unghia forse finiti lì dentro quando le ho sistemate l’ultima volta… e il resto, di colore marrone, a parte qualche microplastica sparsa e appena visibile, credo sia tutta pelle morta che rilascio gradualmente nell’ambiente anziché fare la muta ordinatamente come i serpenti… Va a finire tutto in questa specie di griglia nera di buchi (che non è come un buco nero, purtroppo, perché in quello la roba sparirebbe, invece qui girando o soffiando riesce tutta fuori, e che schifo) e boh, mi fa sembrare un mostro in decomposizione. 🧟♀️A parte tutto, non ricordo precisamente da quanto non la scuotevo così per pulirla, ma è stato non troppo tempo fa, credo… eppure, si riempie sempre di roba, e io non me ne capacito. Ma ci sarà un fottuto modo per evitare in primo luogo che diventi abitualmente una discarica? A parte i vari frammenti solidi di cheratina che vabbé, a me sembra di fare attenzione a non farli finire lì, ma evidentemente ho problemi di skill… come stramaledizione faccio a non farci finire almeno la pelle morta??? Io non sono Asmongold, le mani e la faccia me le lavo, quindi, veramente, sono esterrefatta! (NON toccate mai la mia tastiera, che sennò vi prendete 10 malattie, di questo ne sono alquanto sicura.) 😾
Frieren - Capitolo 7
Ancora una volta, Frieren decide di passare da vecchi amici... quelli che sono rimasti, almeno, e cioè uno: Eisen, il nano che...
Top Benefits of Using a Hanging Blade Sign for Your Business
Illuminated Blade Sign Experts | Nova Pro Signs
Discover premium blade signs, illuminated blade signs and hanging blade signs to interior and exterior blade signs, we craft stunning custom blade signs.Nova Pro Signs
Technology reshared this.
Does it come with a free night with your wife or do I just have to wait my turn like everyone else?
If you're going to try to force ads at me like a boomer I'm going to make fun of you like one. Fair's fair.
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Frieren - Capitolo 6
Il tempo continua a passare inesorabile, ma le maghe non si fermano neppure in questo capitolo. Adesso sono a...
Oregon Fast-Tracks Renewable Energy Projects as Trump Bill Ends Tax Incentives
Oregon Accelerates Green Energy Projects Before Trump Phase-Out of Tax Credits
Gov. Tina Kotek ordered the move, which follows reporting by Oregon Public Broadcasting and ProPublica that highlighted impediments green energy advocates blame for the state’s poor ranking when it comes to the growth of renewables.ProPublica
Give me a single reason why Sora2 should exist.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
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Give me a single reason why Sora2 should exist.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
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Oh wait, you said should, not why.
I mean, I’m as big a ML fans as you’ll find on Lemmy, but this is a slop machine to build some Altman hype.
A controllable, integrated version as a tool, with augmentations like VACE or SDXLs controlnet would be neat. Thats also great because it’s not so easy for 1 click zero effort automated spam, which is by far Sora's largest market as is.
…And guess what. We have that, it’s neat already, it’s open weights, it's improving, and it’s not so controversial/abused because there’s an actual tiny barrier of entry to using it, like Davinci Resolve vs instagram filters.
The less barriers to entry the better for something like this. Imagine all the people who have always wanted to make movies/tv shows but haven't had the ability to who could use these tools to make pilots/trailer to sell to studios, or even create full series/movies to self-publish.
Trying to put barriers and "controls" in front of it purely because you don't like that it can be used to make "slop" is dumb.
You can make movies with e-waste tech these days. There is no barrier to entry.
People who don't have the drive to make things without AI well never produce anything of value with AI.
You can make movies with e-waste tech these days. There is no barrier to entry.
You've never been able to make and iterate as quickly with as high quality as you can using current video generation AI tools. That's fact.
What "e-waste tech" do you think you can make full scenes with realistic people and CGI with?
Smart phones record exceptionally high quality video. Free and open source CGI software can be run on older computers.
People who want to make stuff will find a way to do it.
Lazy people who want to feel special will generate AI slop.
Free and open source CGI software can be run on older computers.
And take years to learn how to use well, compared to literally seconds of using an AI video generation tool. Then there's the actual rendering and iteration, which can now be seconds versus hours/days.
Lazy people who want to feel special will generate AI slop.
People who want to make stuff will be able to make amazing stuff with ease with AI.
You AI haters are all so closed minded, only capable of thinking of the lowest common denominator. Who cares if people make AI "slop" when there will also be visionaries making mind blowing stuff with AI?
And take years to learn how to use well
Heaven fucking forbid that a person dedicates themself to learning a perfecting a craft. Meanwhile, you sloppers are out here thinking you're gonna take over the entertainment industry with your, "Yo Sora, make me a movie that's like Pulp Fiction crossed with Fight Club with supernatural elements."
Who cares if people make AI “slop” when there will also be visionaries making mind blowing stuff with AI?
Because that's all that it's good for. Every year it's, "Oh this is going to be so much better in 6 months, bro. It'll be able to generate full movies by then, for sure, bro." And every year it does get better, but it's still complete and utter garbage. It's still slop.
And even if it's not slop, LLM tech is basically just a repackaged soulless slurry of existing media. Unless there is a fundamental breakthrough in AI tech, it will always be that. LLMs just work that way. It is a limitation of the technology.
If you can't see that, then you truly don't understand what this tech is.
Heaven fucking forbid that a person dedicates themself to learning a perfecting a craft.
So you think that things should always be difficult and extremely time consuming, taking years to learn, even though new tech comes out that means it doesn't have to be, just because.......why exactly?
The same people that dedicate themselves to learning and perfecting a craft can also use these tools and will be able to do amazing things with them - or they can continue not using them if they want.
Meanwhile, you sloppers are out here thinking you’re gonna take over the entertainment industry with your, “Yo Sora, make me a movie that’s like Pulp Fiction crossed with Fight Club with supernatural elements.”
Ok so again, narrow minded and short sighted. What people can do with this is do their usual movie making process - storyboarding, script writing, etc - but can then literally "film" the scene and chop and change it, iterating and fixing almost instantly. It doesn't just spit out an entire movie - at least yet! You can give it exact words to say, camera angles, filters, etc - it basically allows the would-be director to shoot scenes in real time at any time they want, from any location, regardless of the weather/time/location/etc.
Because that’s all that it’s good for. Every year it’s, “Oh this is going to be so much better in 6 months, bro. It’ll be able to generate full movies by then, for sure, bro.” And every year it does get better, but it’s still complete and utter garbage. It’s still slop.
Dude, the technology has been around for only a few years lol. In that time it has absolutely gotten so much better - Google's video generation is a mind blowing upgrade for example.
LLM tech is basically just a repackaged soulless slurry of existing media.
You don't understand how it works if this is what you think.
If you can’t see that, then you truly don’t understand what this tech is.
Huh? The first step is basically immediate generation of video that looks real.
What on earth are you talking about?
slop feeds full of bullshit
That look incredible though. That's the point - now people can make incredible stylized or realistic videos with nothing more than a few words and a few seconds wait.
You're like someone complaining about a technology like raytracing because all you saw was some devs use it to do a few shadows and cut their framerate in half. You can't see the big picture. You can't see that with every medium there is "slop" - there are terrible writers writing books, it's not just all new york times best sellers. There is terrible music, not just grammy winners. AI video generation will have tonnes and tonnes of crap, but it will also have masterpieces.
AI video generation will have tonnes and tonnes of crap, but it will also have masterpieces.
Doubt.
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It's a bit excessive for my taste as well. Traditionally if you felt the need to cut this much just to make the sentence come out the way you want, you'd just do another take instead of making this many cuts in post. Over-cutting of spacing also makes the pacing a bit too "word-vomit" rather than "polished" imo.
I imagine this is more normalized in stereotypically "zoomer" presentation of video content, but it might also just be this guy (or their editor's) style.
I don't think there is a good reason. It's an interesting ability for a model. I can see the appeal why people are interested in much the same way I can understand why people climb mountains. Wouldn't wanna do it myself but I can see why you like it kind of way. For me this falls into the category of "the general public doesn't need to have access to this." I get mad when I hear people talk about it in terms of what is and isn't allowed in it. "And then I tried to put a light saber in it and that was okay but I couldn't make me into Super Mario." You just created enough heat in a server farm that will kill a polar bear, that needs to be cooled with future drinking water we need to desalinate, and you have huffed some more air in the hyped up bubble economy surrounding so-called AI. All so you can see where the model draws the copyright line? And if you think that I was modest in my hyperbole, you'll probably agree with me when I say in a similar spirit that we as a species deserve to eradicate ourselves off this planet.
The so-called AI peddlers have the same problem as news peddlers online. It's fucking hard to turn users into paying subscribers. And they need to turn a profit at some point. It's the merciless mechanics of capitalism that dumps all these models on an unprepared general public at dumping prices. A drive to increase shareholder value above any other consideration. It's time to change that.
And I'm not opposed to this model existing. Research it, fine tune it, offer it for the actual cost you're running in the background plus a bit of a profit margin. And when it costs $207.40 per month to make these brief videos, I'd be okay with that. It would price out enough users not to undo any of the insufficient climate saving measures we as a species have already implemented.
Just going to drop this wiki link, so people know the precident set with this case is one of the driving causes for our current misery.
The general public won’t have access to it. They are locking it down more and more.
Governments, corps, the elite will have access though. That seems worse than open access to me.
This is a bit irrelevant but we can't use sea water for cooling instead. And if we're already heating sea water can't we just heat it up more in the end and create a combined desalination server farm.
Are they any major issues I'm missing
I have never once asked why something should exist. It’s the human will to make new cool things, and in 5y this model will train on your refrigerator, so you aren’t stopping it. These videos complain about the problems of exponentially increasing technology rather than look towards solutions, like anti capitalist organizing. Like, ok, this destroys copyright and IP: guess what copyright and IP is DUMB CAPITALIST NONSENSE. Let’s overthrow it. These people are complaining about companies selling access to these models under cost: that’s because this can never make a profit! If you don’t need labor, cost goes to 0. This will spur unemployment and harm, which will spur worker participation and class warfare.
And the environmental cost is still lower than meat.
To me all the complaining is the sweet voice of class consciousness.
And the environmental cost is still lower than meat.
Meat, whether you think it's moral or ethical or not, serves a need. People need to eat. People don't need AI slop.
It's kind of like saying, "Well yeah I leave this 50kw diesel generator running 24/7. It's way less environmentally damaging than meat. No, I'm not using the power it generates for any real purpose, but who cares, it's environmentally friendly!"
And the environmental cost is still lower than meat.
It's not meat.
It's cars and planes. We know this because we observed a drastic drop in air pollution in both 2008 (following the financial crash) and March 2020 that can be attributed to basically the entire planet no longer commuting and traveling.
That said, LLM's water and carbon footprints are likely going to be far more devastating than meat consumption, not that it'll matter. Everyone is still going to vote Democrat and Republican and things will steadily continue to get worse.
Literally mention meat and the internet goes berserk. Does anyone have any commentary on the remainder of my post?
We still couldn’t reverse climate change with 2020 or 2008 numbers… We are FUCKED. Best not to think too hard about it because thanos could barely solve climate change.
I disagree that LLMs carbon footprint will be more than meat. I think it’ll remain thousands of times less than meat basically forever in fact. That’s basically claiming that GPU servers will outnumber cows and chickens in the future. But whatever.
It's not meat.It's cars and planes. We know this because we observed a drastic drop in air pollution in both 2008 (following the financial crash) and March 2020 that can be attributed to basically the entire planet no longer commuting and traveling.
It's both, and a handful of other industries. The tiny blip of dropped emissions during covid did absolutely fucking nothing to help air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. It's just feel-good bullshit the media spread around. Travel is a significant portion of ghg emissions, very comparable in impact to meat production.
Well, that's one way to test an identity.
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It popped into my head, if I had to see it, then so do you.
i wish i could see it, it would give a fascinating new dimension to that movie lol
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Do some women with sexual experience date a virgin?
- Sensitive content
- Parola filtrata: nsfw
I made a post on Showerthoughts saying if you are a guy and you are a virgin at 22 years old, you are fucked because most women in their 20s have sexual experience, so if you are a 22-year-old guy, a woman who’s 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, or 30 wouldn’t want to date you because they have sexual experience already.
However, I could be wrong, so do some women with sexual experience date a virgin? If so, why?
Black Carpet Awards: evento collaterale o vera inclusione?
L'evento dei Black Carpet Awards ci fa porre una domanda spinosa: celebrare la diversità in un evento a parte è un atto di inclusione o di separazione?
Ecco i punti chiave:
1. Il Paradosso della visibilità: da un lato, eventi dedicati sono fondamentali per dare luce e voce a chi, nel mainstream, fatica a emergere. Creano comunità e modelli di riferimento potenti.
2. Il Rischio della ghettizzazione: dall'altro, un evento "collaterale" rischia di confinare la diversità in una nicchia, implicitamente suggerendo che non sia ancora pronta per il palco principale dell'industria.
3. La meta finale: il vero traguardo non è avere palchi paralleli, ma un cambiamento strutturale. Camera Moda e le istituzioni devono integrare la diversità nel cuore degli eventi ufficiali, rendendola la norma e non l'eccezione.
In sintesi: I Black Carpet Awards sono un sintomo necessario di un'industria in transizione, ma ci ricordano che il viaggio verso l'inclusione è completo solo quando la diversità sarà il palcoscenico stesso.
Tu cosa ne pensi?
Se vuoi saperne di più:
🇮🇹🔗 suite123.it/it/2025/10/01/blac…
🇬🇧🔗 suite123.it/2025/10/01/black-c…
Black Carpet Awards: Side events or true inclusion? - suite123
Black Carpet Awards at MFW SS26: Side events or true inclusion? Does celebrating diversity in collateral events really promote inclusion?suite123
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Republicans could draw 19 more House seats after an upcoming Supreme Court ruling
Many experts are forecasting the end of a key provision of election law — enabling Republicans to shore up their advantage in the House, according to a new report.Ahead of the court’s Oct. 15 rehearing of Louisiana v. Callais — a case that has major implications for the VRA — two voting rights groups are sounding the alarm, warning that eliminating Section 2, a provision that prohibits racial gerrymandering when it dilutes minority voting power, would let Republicans redraw up to 19 House seats to favor the party and crush minority representation in Congress.
Bye bye free and fair elections by the midterms! And people called me crazy for predicting this.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/08/republicans-scotus-vra-00597212
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i did Primerica out of desperation back in the 90's and they made us sit through presentations and videos like this and i resented it.
watching something like it again 30 years later was enjoyable, but only because it was a pleasant trip through memory lane re-seeing the aesthetics and home decor that i realized were prevalent in upper middle class homes back then when i had to travel to do Primerica.
also: i've had to work at a couple of diners during high-school/college and tandmen cooking has been the status quo atleast since the 80's; it's only high end restaurants/diners who don't do this and it's wild to learn that people are still unaware of it.
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kurzgesagt – AI Slop Is Killing Our Channel / Destroying the Internet
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
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They have gotten money from Bill Gates foundation. Still its a pop sci YouTube and does a good job at it. Some say its spreading misinformation or that context is missing. I don't really see malicious intentions. Expecting more of a pop sci publication is kind of absurd; take a real class and study if you want more.
An example:
How Kurzgesagt Cooks Propaganda For Billionaires
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.m.youtube.com
While not wrong, this is now quite a bit dated. Kurzgesagt acknowledged being called out for it and addressed it via various channels. One of them here:
Sounds better than the fucking singing purple llama I get all the time ruining a song from Dirty Dancing by changing the ‘I’ to ‘AI’.
‘AI had the time of my life’ doesn’t even make sense!
Use Firefox + uBlock Origin on desktop and on mobile. Only watch YouTube via Firefox. Never see these bullshit ads again.
Currently adblocking is winning the war of the technical evolution of control vs. resistance.
And VacuumTube for an app like experience on HTPC's, linux based set top boxes, as well as MacOS and windows or linux based tablets.
Edit: added hyperlink to projects github page.
GitHub - shy1132/VacuumTube: YouTube Leanback on the desktop, with enhancements
YouTube Leanback on the desktop, with enhancements - shy1132/VacuumTubeGitHub
I and, from what I've seen discussed here and elsewhere online, many other people have stopped watching the channel because of many valid reasons completely unrelated to AI.
I haven't watched a single one of their videos for years, something changed in their content and I just lost interest. Then there have been several controversial events throughout the years, both objective bad stuff and subjective things that made many loose interest and faith in their integrity.
They definitely became one of the many channels that lost it's way because of how big it got. The animations became too "perfect" in a weird way, they lost their personality and they also got scared of having real opinions so they started doing this "all sides" shit and that's when I tapped out.
I've tried to watch new videos from them about once every 6 months or so, but I can't even make it past a minute without completely loosing interest.
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In that it's mostly a merch ad hidden behind a clickbait title.
So I guess it's a good test for that sort of "just read the headline" response.
It's been a rough few days and I think I may be coming around. What hope is there to parse AI misinformation if people can't parse a Reddit-like link aggregator?
I may be done with this place at this point. It's just all bad. If not the whole Internet, certainly the whole of social media.
Completely agree, their channel has changed a lot and seems to be producing videos on a conveyor belt now, while before they used to do one video or maximum two a month. Now it seems they produce a video a week, and interesting topics are more hard to come by.
When they said that they're "almost 70 full time people and a lot of freelancers on top" I almost did a spit take. I know there are big channels and operations on YT, but this seems such an unreasonable amount of employees for this type of channel and audience. No wonder it feels oversaturated and overdone, they probably feel the need to put more and more videos to keep their huge team and expences afloat.
Just find a sustainable pace and team size, don't go the corporate way of growth over all.
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Their quality going down is probably what’s killing their channel. Every video is a merch ad, and the occasional shilling for the fossil fuel industry probably doesn’t help any.
These things are to be expected when you get bought by private equity, but let’s not be dishonest and say it’s all AI slop that’s killing them.
These things are to be expected when you get bought by private equity,
Excuse me, what?
They are owned by private equity? It's pretty common these days for the more popular YT channels. Veritasium, Astrum, Fireship, fern., and Hoog are some other examples. Basically, if it's a popular YT channel, it's either owned by PE, in negotiations to be acquired by PE, or pursued by a PE firm in the hopes that they can acquire it. Private equity is accelerating their acquisitions, actually, and they want to control everything that captures the attention of viewers.
Here's a video that talks about it.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
Anyone down voting this should be ashamed of themselves.
Like deeply and personally ashamed.
The type of shame that follows them for the rest their lives, because that's how scummy you'd have to be in order downvote someone shining a light on how private equity is buying out major YouTube channels.
Something that I was entirely unaware of, and appreciate your comment regarding.
I get it. They like the channel, and don't want to think that a channel they love could do something they don't love. Or maybe some of them don't see it as a bad thing in the first place.
Me, I'm the opposite. I want to know who owns the media I consume, because I want to know who might be influencing the things I see. It's always better to have the whole truth, even if that truth hurts. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy the channel still, it just means you're better prepared to understand the context of anything that that channel might say. Even cold hard facts with empirical evidence can be propaganda, depending on how it's presented.
Except you lied about who they are owned by.
Why make yourself out to be virtuous and caring about the truth when your entire premise is a lie?
I never made myself out to be virtuous, nor do I care about what you think of me. I'm an asshole, and that's fine because I love me exactly how I am and don't need random strangers on the internet for validation. and I certainly don't care about what you think of them making propaganda videos. I wouldn't even still be in this thread if you guys weren't still throwing a tantrum about somebody calling out your precious favorite YouTube channel for their less-than-stellar quality and tendency to pander to billionaires.
I posted my opinion, you got butthurt over it. that's as far as this conversation is ever going to go, because I don't care about you enough to bother arguing it extensively. now why don't you take your sci-fi antisemitic trope of a username and get out of my mentions.
The video which made the accusations, not me, provided sources for all of the claims.
Did you even look?
Sorry, that was rhetorical, obviously you did not look.
Look, I'm sorry you got invested in Youtube channels and now feel betrayed, but that's something everyone else already understood: don't blindly trust anyone or any organisation, they can be bought, and will when it's advantageous to do so.
In the meantime, don't shit on people's work without a good reason, or you're doing the work for those who mean to control you.
I have no idea what you're going on about.
It's not a matter of betrayal, it was a video revealing another area of influence in society that is now controlled behind the scenes by private equity.
Whose work was I shitting on? I was shaming people who were down voting that very well sourced and informative video, that documented private equity's quiet takeover of major YouTube channels.
Maybe you should review the comment thread and see if you meant to respond to someone else, because that's the most charitable explanation I can come up with for your responses to me.
my family and I grow most of our food, and we're part of the local community garden where the small town we live in also grows food that is shared with everyone.
so out of the two of us, I'm pretty sure it'll be you who is starving.
And prayvtell, where do you find your seedlings and your fertilizer? And the tools to be used to work the fields? That's the problem of people like you, you can't see how intertwined it is our life with the rest of the world and you don't know how much it sucks to be living at a subsistence level. But go off with your fantasy, it does cost anything to dream.
Also, I forgot to ask how would you fare in a draught, a hailstorm or a long winter. But these are impossible conditions in your dreamworld I reckon
And prayvtell, where do you find your seedlings and your fertilizer?
well we use the stuff we grow for seeds, we don't buy into the capitalist propaganda that you can't replant things because It'S iLlEgAl. and compost is free and easy to make. also, I'm planning on getting chickens for fertilizer as well, once I build the infrastructure for them. they are great for dealing with insect pests too!
And the tools to be used to work the fields?
my next-door neighbor is a 40-year old dude that took up blacksmithing after he watched one too many YT videos. he made me a knife for last christmas out of a rusty steel cable.
Also, I forgot to ask how would you fare in a draught, a hailstorm or a long winter
I live in the midwest, we deal with those all the time.
dreamworld
a better world is possible, and it's not a dream. get up off your ass and make it with your friends. don't let legality or naysayers tell you something is impossible, that's capitalist propaganda meant to keep you down.
Yes of course, a utopia is waiting for those who are able to grow a crop using a field inside of an apartment.
Dude, you're projecting a reality which could be applied to a very narrow set of people in modern society and in the western world. Imagining a better future is possible and good, but we need to keep it aligned with the actual realities present at this time. Being a bad crop away from death and surviving in a close anarchist encampment can work in a movie like 38 years later, not in real life
You speak of solidarity after having decided that a possible life changing sum of money would be used to benefit you and the people you decide are worthy of your benevolence. Let me tell you brother, you need to have a look into a vocabulary as soon as possible. And to what the tech overlords are doing with their money. You'll find to be more similar than you think to Bezos and Zuckerberg
Also,he conditions described in your posts are those we had to endure during the middle ages, when citie and villages were tiny nation states and in constant war with eachother to scrap the poor resources we had available at that time, when serfdom was a common occurrence and when people were lucky to live beyond 40 years of age. Not my best pick if I have to choose a future for the whole of humanity.
Lastly you still haven't time how should people living in cities and urban areas live in this futur of yours. Does your crop grow on asphalt and concrete or do you see the problem your "vision" would bring to a huge prt
You talk about,s solidarity afeter having decided that a life-changing sum of money would be used to benefit you and those you deem worthy of yourself. Please pick up a vocabulary and look at the definition of the words you use. Also look at what Bezos and Zuckerberg are doing with their money and how they're building their compounds and you'll find to be closer to them than to an anarchist.
Humanity already went through the conditions you described in your post: it was during the middle ages, when cities were tiny nation states at constant war with eachother to scrap the poor and few resources available, serfdom was pretty common and people were lucky to live past 40 years of age. Not exactly my first choice when it comes to decide how I would like to live my future life.
Lastly I despise the system we live in as much, if not more, than you. But, differently from you, I'm not used to throwing away the baby with the bath water and I prefer to safeguard those advancements wich are truly helpful to humanity such as vaccines, democracy and human rights to cite some of them.
I almost forgot, you still haven't explained how should people living in cities and urban areas survive in this future of yours. Does your crop grow on asphalt and concrete or do you see the problem your "vision" would bring to a huge part of any population?
Keep on dreaming of a 38 years later were you're the protagonist, I'm sure it will help you and everyone else ;)
You talk about,s solidarity afeter having decided that a life-changing sum of money would be used to benefit you and those you deem worthy of yourself.
anarchism is all about mutual association. so yes, anarchist communities would be made of people who agreed to be a community together. this is basic.
Humanity already went through the conditions you described in your post: it was during the middle ages, when cities were tiny nation states at constant war with eachother to scrap the poor and few resources available, serfdom was pretty common and people were lucky to live past 40 years of age. Not exactly my first choice when it comes to decide how I would like to live my future life.
what a first-world mindset. many places in the world still operate like this, you're just so comfortable in your way of life you don't even think about them. I would encourage you to break out of that mindset, and show a little interest in the wide world around you.
I almost forgot, you still haven’t explained how should people living in cities and urban areas survive in this future of yours. Does your crop grow on asphalt and concrete or do you see the problem your “vision” would bring to a huge part of any population?
yes, crops do grow in the cities. many cities are turning to urban farming in order to feed people. singapore is a leader in this, because they have a very large population with very little area for anything, let alone farming food. with not only private citizen-grown farms, but also the worlds first commercial rooftop farming company. and it's not just rooftops, farms are appearing indoors, sometimes taking up entire floors in some skyscrapers. in cities in china, such as chongqing and shenzhen, urban farms and gardens are very common, and shoved into whatever small areas they can be put into. i've seen them in alleys, dead space between buildings, on rooftops, hanging from the ceiling, and even on top of concrete walls in the form of potted crops.
but it's not just asia, places like new york city are also mandating green spaces on top of some skyscrapers as well. those can take the form of parks, or farms, depending on the preferences of the building owners, as long as they are natural plants. furthermore, many residential apartment buildings in places like new york, chicago, and other american cities are seeing rooftop farms appear. in reality, almost everyone can grow some food for themselves, even if all you have is a single small window sill.
you seem to be very ignorant of the world. I would also encourage you to seek out information on green initiatives, and how people in cities are dealing with the problems they face in an urban landscape. there is no doubt that you are speaking on a topic you are woefully unprepared for.
Keep on dreaming of a 38 years later were you’re the protagonist, I’m sure it will help you and everyone else ;)
if the best you can do to argue against me is bring up a fictional zombie apocalypse in which everyone was infected and died, then perhaps it is time to admit you already lost the argument. we're talking about reality here and what is happening right now all across the world, not your fantasy horror worlds.
anarchism is all about mutual association. so yes, anarchist communities would be made of people who agreed to be a community together. this is basic.
Being considered worthy of living in a space you so kindly have cut out of the external world is not association if you still haven't realised that.
what a first-world mindset. many places in the world still operate like this, you’re just so comfortable in your way of life you don’t even think about them. I would encourage you to break out of that mindset, and show a little interest in the wide world around you.
And still I wouldn't want to live like that. Our goal as a specie should be to elevate those living in hellish scenario like the one I described and that you so eagerly wish for all of us. Maybe this hasn't crossed your mind since you must be very young and fairly able bodied, but not everyone is capable of living in conditions where safe drinking water is unavailable and the best health care is relying on the phase of the moon to ingest the medicine cooked up by a wannabe shaman. It's not about being comfortable, it's about making everything better for everybody, for Christ' sake. You want to see millions of people die while you gloat about your helm and your ditch sorrounding it? Go for it, but at least don't call it "solidarity"; call it for what it is: egoism and main character syndrome.
yes, crops do grow in the cities. many cities are turning to urban farming in order to feed people. singapore is a leader in this, because they have a very large population with very little area for anything, let alone farming food. with not only private citizen-grown farms, but also the worlds first commercial rooftop farming company. and it’s not just rooftops, farms are appearing indoors, sometimes taking up entire floors in some skyscrapers. in cities in china, such as chongqing and shenzhen, urban farms and gardens are very common, and shoved into whatever small areas they can be put into. i’ve seen them in alleys, dead space between buildings, on rooftops, hanging from the ceiling, and even on top of concrete walls in the form of potted crops.but it’s not just asia, places like new york city are also mandating green spaces on top of some skyscrapers as well. those can take the form of parks, or farms, depending on the preferences of the building owners, as long as they are natural plants. furthermore, many residential apartment buildings in places like new york, chicago, and other american cities are seeing rooftop farms appear. in reality, almost everyone can grow some food for themselves, even if all you have is a single small window sill.
you seem to be very ignorant of the world. I would also encourage you to seek out information on green initiatives, and how people in cities are dealing with the problems they face in an urban landscape. there is no doubt that you are speaking on a topic you are woefully unprepared for.
Good luck feeding a city of millions with the fruits of planted pottery. You're gonna need a lot of pottery. Jesus Christ, a proper lot of pottery.
if the best you can do to argue against me is bring up a fictional zombie apocalypse in which everyone was infected and died, then perhaps it is time to admit you already lost the argument. we’re talking about reality here and what is happening right now all across the world, not your fantasy horror worlds.
If the best you can do is responding to a snarky remark I left at the end of my comment thinking that it was the main point I was trying to make while imagining cities where millions of people live able to support themselves with only a couple of trees and tomato plants and completely misunderstanding the meaning of the anarchist mindset I'm afraid we're not having an argument at all, we are displaying the level of delusion you are willing to let yourself live in. Just like those asking for a civil war do not absolutely understand what they're asking for so do you with your call for an uncontrolled fall of the system.
Being considered worthy of living in a space you so kindly have cut out of the external world is not association if you still haven’t realised that.
that exactly is what mutual association is. I suggest you read the AFAQ, because you very clearly do not know anything about anarchism. the freedom of association requires the freedom to disassociate.
as for the rest of your comment, it takes a real special sort of person to look at examples I gave you of cities literally feeding thousands of people through urban farms and go "nah, I can't conceive of that being true, so it isn't". that's MAGA levels of denial. it doesn't matter your opinion or feelings on the matter. it's a real thing, it's happening now, and it's slowly being scaled upwards. snarky bullshit remarks aren't going to change that.
I will be blocking you now. you're not interested in accepting reality, and so our mutual association is no longer mutual, and I'm taking advantage my freedom to cut closed-minded useless people out of my life. live the rest of your sad little life as a slave to capitalism in whatever depressing, dystopian way seems best to you.
Keep on disassociating from someone who is trying to make you think about the result of your actions, that's exactly how grown up people act and that's gonna make associating so much wider when you'll find yourself alone in your fiery outrage.
A perfect example of a pizza cutter kind of anarchist, all edge, no point.
You talk about agricultural projects which feed thousands in cities where MILLIONS of people live. You talk about cooperation but you don't consider those who are unable to cooperate due to age, health conditions or any ithe reason. You talk about changing the system but you offer nonviable alternative other than "break it all down and hope for the best". I'm sorry, I can't be bothered with auch juvenile ideas of revolution, they would only bring death and suffering for too many people to be considered viable. I hope you'll grow up sooner rather than later and realise that we can only hope to improve the situation when we will learn everything about the positives of the current system and how we can keep them while discarding everything else.
As for myself I'll be living in this hellish capitalist system as you will until it won't collapse on itself or until I'll die, it rest to be seen what happens first. But I'll be living in it with the clear objective of improving it without needing to kill hundreds of thousands of people during that process, thank you very much
Yes, and also I was able to extrapolate that much, but I was looking for some idea of what kind of content they provided.
That said, I can look them up; apologies for bothering you on the matter.
Astrum makes space stuff videos? I dunno, been a while.
Fireship makes videos about programming. Has series about "(Programming language/Framework) explained in 100 seconds", for example. I think people are complaining that the channel is slipping into AI dudebroery.
Hoog is a history/explainer type channel, I think.
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Idk about fossil fuels specifically but they been directly being sponsored by big companies and in return making propoganda for them for a few years now.
As much as i regret linking to reddit here, i feel it is fair to also post the channels answer to the video.
I watch that channel for years and i had no idea. I post his answer over the channels answer. Although that is 3 years old, i wonder what is now happening.
They accepted, and continue to accept a great amount of money from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. That foundation owns over $11 billion in investments in the fossil fuel industry, including coal-burning utility companies.
In return, there were quite a few videos that Kurzgesagt admits were funded directly by the Foundation, that exaggerate the positive influence corporations owned by the foundation have had. Videos which the CEO of Kurzgesagt has admitted they probably would not have made if the Foundation had not paid for them.
Yeah. It seems like a ridiculous accusation to make. Bro couldn't even answer the question about example of shilling so they had to pivot into the crime of taking money from a foundation to produce high quality educational content.
How dare they?
They accepted, and continue to accept a great amount of money from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. That foundation owns over $11 billion in investments in the fossil fuel industry, including coal-burning utility companies.In return, there were quite a few videos that Kurzgesagt admits were funded directly by the Foundation, that exaggerate the positive influence corporations owned by the foundation have had. Videos which the CEO of Kurzgesagt has admitted they probably would not have made if the Foundation had not paid for them.
question answered. if you don't want to accept the CEO of Kurzgesagt word that they would not have made the videos if they hadn't been paid to, then that isn't my problem. I'm not here to convince you, and I don't mind if you don't believe him.
I said what I said to voice my own opinion on their channel, I didn't voice it as an indication that I was interested in debating the matter. I've already come to my own conclusions. read their website and their medium, or search up one of the deep dive videos on it if you're really interested. I'm not going to go too far out of my way to convince anyone, since it doesn't really harm me in any way if you believe me or not.
I also didn't say anywhere that you should stop watching their videos. you should, however, know who owns and funds every bit of media you consume, so that you can use that information to be healthily skeptical of things people are telling you, just as you are with me. I still watch fern., even though they are owned by PE, because their videos are high quality and mostly free of bias. but I keep in the back of my mind that they have corporate overlords that might want me to believe one thing or another.
I did a few searches and while I didn't find that quote from Kurzgesagt's CEO, I did find the contribution listed from a decade ago on the Gates foundation website. $570,000 paid out over four years. They also gave NPR $2,000,000 the next year.
Since I didn't find the CEOs quote you've mentioned, I can only question the context around it. Would those videos not have been made because the Gates foundation specifically tied the funding to those videos being created? Or would they not have been made because Kurzgesagt didn't have the money to do so otherwise?
Regardless, Kurzgesagt is a private company and if they wanted to conceal hidden agendas by corporate contributors, they would just keep quiet - not openly acknowledge that they made content with money given to them by some larger organisation.
If we're going to denounce any group of people that are connected via Bacon's Law to a disastrous corporate industry, the moral high ground will be unachievable for the entirety of our species.
the CEO of Kurzgesagt word that they would not have made the videos if they hadn’t been paid to
This on its own proves nothing bad. Some videos just require a bigger budget to make and can't be made on their otherwise limited budget. Or the topic is just lower priority due to writer interests. If they were forced into covering specific topics then that's a different story, but I haven't seen any evidence that was the case.
$11 billion0.05%
"A small loan of a million dollars."
Does any of that matter in this situation, anyway? Exaggerating their content in exchange for money already places question on their reliability as an educational content creator.
I don't think you understood what they're saying. Try reading it again.
Hint: the investment of $11 billion refers to investment of Gates Foundation in fossil fuels.
Hint: the investment of $11 billion refers to investment of Gates Foundation in fossil fuels.
Well, considering these exact words were used:
That foundation owns over $11 billion in investments in the fossil fuel industry, including coal-burning utility companies.
What can I say but duh. If I misunderstood anything, it was the comment I replied to, which was unclear about the "0.05% down from 6%" detail, and seemed to be associating that with the $11 billion figure by context.
But hey, nice deflection, and super cool of you to be that rude about it, too.
per Kurzgesagt,
For Kurzgesagt sponsorships are an important part of our yearly budget, representing about 20% of our income last year.
the 0.05% figure is wrong, according to the people making the money themselves.
I'm trying to think of their 'fossil fuel shilling' video and only videos that come to mind are where they say we're too entrenched in the fossil fuel industry to make a switch to renewable overnight. It's just not realistic.
And other than fuel, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of products made from petroleum. Approximately 85% of petroleum is made into fuel. Rest is used to make things like pharma products, paint, pesticides, polymers etc.
The problem is when the contributors influence what the videos say, in contradiction to data.
Kurzgesagt's video on +2° / +3° / +4° over the global mean isn't going to be so bad video was conspicuous to me, and is in fact, based on fossil-fuel industry rhetoric, rather than climatology estimations (which tell us over +1.5° is going to fuck us, and is).
It's allegedly a documentary, not fiction. It should make sense from beginning to end.
Sounds like you feel the need to defend Kurzgesagt for sentimental reasons, and since they're presenting themselves as a source for accurate information, that just won't do.
Shill implied some payback. And Tankie is usually followed up by "bot of thing I don't like."
lol
spreading corporate propaganda is not exactly virtuous.
for only a small fraction of their revenue in return?
They accepted, and continue to accept a great amount of money from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
It's interesting how any false narrative starts with a granule of truth.
Kurzgesagt was indeed provided $570,000 in 2015. That money was paid out across the following four years.
They have not continued to accept any amount of money from the Gates foundation.
Committed grants
Search the Gates Foundation’s committed grants database and explore funding details, annual reports, and downloadable data.Gates Foundation
Sorry, I didn't think the word 'continued' would have needed underlining for anyone that could read what I wrote.
Using a piece of factual information to prop up false information within the same sentence is how false narratives take hold.
that's not how i read it at all. no misinformation here.
see, the fact they took money to publish critical misinformation about climate change is not a joke. it should take more than an "i'm sowwy" to fix their reputation.
as it justifiably should.
I'm unsure we are talking about the same comment. The misinformation is the claim the Gates foundation is continuing to fund Kurzgesagt, when that clearly isn't the case. This incorrect information is veiled by beginning the statement with the truth of the 2015 grant.
Insofar as the reputational damage Kurzgesagt has incurred, I'm not sure there's much meat on that bone. Sure, you might believe they have fallen from grace or some such, but as I pointed out in another comment here, we can't just connect everything under the sun and say 'group A is bad because groups B through Y are all next to one another and with group Z doing all those injustices, group A is complicit in those crimes'.
To me, the question of whether Kurzgesagt is a Gates mouthpiece is pretty cut and dry. A few reasons for this, but the most glaring is simply that the money didn't keep coming, and it wasn't much money to begin with. I wouldn't be going out of my way to talk up my employer to clients if my last bonus was a decade ago and didn't even cover my rent for the month I got it.
First off, no you didn’t.
Secondly, if you take money from billionaires to make propaganda videos for them, then you’re owned by them. You sell your soul to the devil, you can’t undo it later because you get called out for it.
I feel like the title doesn't match the content.
The video gives an elaborate description on their evaluation of "AI" and it's influence on the Internet at large. And then they conclude with "we'll continue like before" directly contradicting the title.
Feels disingenuous. And ironic after they talked about their extensive investments into fact checking.
Did you come into a comment section and expected not to see any comments?
Do you take everything as it is, without criticizing anything?
Do that if you want. No need to be so dismissive without actually making your point. Which I assume is that clickbait is "normal".
The channel hat always been disingenuous. It's not the first video they have where they develop a well written essay that has conclusions that make no sense with the information presented. It's the theater of research without any of the substance. The editors just do whatever they want, under the expectations that the writing team will support their preconceived notion.
They're an entertainment channel, not a science communication channel. They have said some awful, totally not fact supported stuff in the past.
Wow look at all of the evidence you've provided. It's going to take me all night to go through it.
If you going to make claims like that you're going to need to provide even a shred of evidence
You're using a lot of weasel words and zero sources for someone arguing we should all fact check things.
I'm not even saying your wrong, but your going to have to do a lot more than that to convince me that "they're known for" everything you just said, because that sounds like you have a very specific beef with them that overshadows everything else they've ever done (in your estimation) and your projecting that as a universal truth, when really it's not.
I respect your opinion, but there are certainly far more worse channels than there are better ones, and they're known for being one of the better ones.
edit: If this is what you're trying to say, I agree with you: lemy.lol/comment/21580850
Some of their videos are pretty good, but taking funding from billionaires is never a good look.
Right so you say everyone should source all their work but then claim very specific things about the channel and then refuse to provide sources.
Interesting.
But I guess as long as you're not here to try and convince anyone that what you're saying is true it's okay for you to just say anything regardless of validity. That's very political of you, well done.
The video gives an elaborate description on their evaluation of “AI” and it’s influence on the Internet at large. And then they conclude with “we’ll continue like before” directly contradicting the title.
You missed the entire point of the video.
The claims are simple:
- in order to make this type of videos, they need to be able to reliable fact check
- data on the internet is increasingly polluted by AI slop, making it harder to distinguish fact from slop
- for now, they have no choice but to continue while being extra vigilant... but eventually, if things do not change, they will be unable to perform
It's the exact same situation about climate change... we need to act now, most of us will suffer otherwise but for now we continue on living while trying to adjust where we can (recycling, reusing, less/no meat, etc) even if we know that will not be enough long term.
well, it may be a matter of context and tolerance here but I find the concept they are presenting is axiomatic and as such would not require any further explanation:
They use the internet to research their videos... the internet is getting more and more polluted with false narratives... ergo, it is becoming harder to research for their videos. Without good source, there are no videos.
If I tell you plants need water to exist but each season brings less and less rain year after year... would you say a title such as "drought is killing the plants" clickbaity?
I assumed they don’t do their research using random crap on “the internet”, but reliable experts, peer reviewed papers and such
Yes, that is what they claim. But I am sure you have seen how hard it is now to find something even if you know exactly what you are looking for. It's not like there are 2 libraries online for anything you need, right? You start researching about topic A and read that Dr XYZ did a study on this so you look for that study... just to find out Dr XYZ does not and has never existed.
No specific claims about topics, funding, time or anything. And again, no numbers, so hard to argue objectively.
So you want a specific number as to how many bad sources they are now forcing to discard because they turned out to be AI slop?
it's not that type of channel... they never do more than a percentage or a rate.
their thing is to explain concepts in a way a young audience can digest them
Those metrics aren't any more trustworthy than their own subjective word anyway. If they wanted to say they took more time then they could delay at their whim anyway. If they said their production costs increased, then again, they could spend the money to fit the narrative. On those particular points objective evidence is so susceptible to being gamed that it isn't really more valuable than their subjective reporting.
Numbers of subscribers/views could be a bit more informative, but then people inclined to disbelieve would claim it's because of any number of other reasons not because of AI slop.
Killing in this case sounds like the content is becoming harder and harder to create, which they lay out the subjective case for, but that wouldn't be exactly something they could use figures to present, since it's so subjective.
The one point they might have been able to show with numbers would be the emergence of AI slop 'infotainment animations' diluting the audience, but that wasn't exactly the biggest point of the video and it might be a bit early to be able to demonstrate statistically credible evidence on that one.
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I didn't say they have to like it, that would be silly.
I'm criticising them for making an incorrect statement, being corrected on it, then acting extremely proud of being ignorant of the facts, and committing to not informing themselves.
They have been doing this animation style since 2013.
Why do you think they use AI?
I think your AI senses are broken, you see AI everywhere where there is not. You're like the extreme opposite of AI Tech Bro. Like you have paranoid AI-phobia or something.
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In the video you're literally commenting on they explain how they fact check their videos and how they work with professionals in the field at matter.
You can always complain that something wasn't as good as you personally wanted it to be but that may very well be bias. The people making the accusations may have a bias. All we can do is take the totality of their output and cast judgement on that.
The point was that they haven't always held themselves up to those standards and have sometimes only used professionals espousing a single viewpoint (where multiple exist).
I should mention this isn't bias, iirc the channel did release a video apologizing for some of the issues (though not all), so it wasn't even up to their own standards by their own admission.
There's a wikipedia entry listing some of the controversies: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurzgesa…
Looking things up now, I see that the plagiarism case was slightly different: they had published a video on addiction, which was fairly explosive in its claims. Turns out it was citing basically just one fringe researcher who was also accused of plagiarism. The claims did not seem to hold up to scrutiny.
When another channel doing a series on how pop-sci influencers can sometimes spread misinformed ideas asked some questions to Kurzgesagt, they were immediately a bit apprehensive but agreed to do some interview questions, though with the caveat that they were busy with other things and needed a few weeks before it could take place. Then before the interview took place they suddenly put out their own apology video and took the addiction video down. At no point was it mentioned that another channel prompted this action, it was presented as some kind of inward reflection that they had come to themselves.
Kurzgezagt is a slop channel too you know.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
You can't really call it slop just because you disagree with their views and representations of things.
Their stuff is carefully researched and sourced, human crafted and open to critique. Whether they're correct in their assessments or not is of course up for debate, but it's good craftsmanship and they show their work.
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Eh, there's a lot of blending of conjecture, opinion and fact all presented as truth, and their handling of mistakes could be better - they've openly said if they consider a mistake to be minor then they don't even issue a correction or update.
I personally think that attitude towards production pushes it towards slop, as for things like entertainment one of the key defining things that separate slop from quality media is passion, but if you don't care about making accurate content then are you any better than just getting AI to write a script?
There you go.
github.com/laylavish/uBlockOri…
GitHub - laylavish/uBlockOrigin-HUGE-AI-Blocklist: A huge blocklist of manually curated sites that contain AI generated imagery for uBlock Origin & uBlacklist.
A huge blocklist of manually curated sites that contain AI generated imagery for uBlock Origin & uBlacklist. - laylavish/uBlockOrigin-HUGE-AI-BlocklistGitHub
GitHub - laylavish/uBlockOrigin-HUGE-AI-Blocklist: A huge blocklist of manually curated sites that contain AI generated imagery for uBlock Origin & uBlacklist.
A huge blocklist of manually curated sites that contain AI generated imagery for uBlock Origin & uBlacklist. - laylavish/uBlockOrigin-HUGE-AI-BlocklistGitHub
Google still does its psychotic summarys though.
Then other day I was trying to find out how to get just one AD account not to sync through to Azure without disabling it. And the AI came up with this complicated instruction set that didn't work and was totally made up from nowhere. Now what on earth was the point in doing that?
At one point it told me I had to triple click on something. Because that's totally a thing.
It's so fun when it's so specific about some detail with casual confidence that is based on absolutely nothing at all. I know ultimately it's architecture is more akin to a predictive word generator, but it seems so much better.
Saw a clear demonstration and it is wild that the output is consistent, but at least in the model I saw being run, every word is generated without it having considered what the word after would be or what the general concept it is going for. For a human one has to already know the concept before he/she starts putting words to it, but at least the models I've seen explained with detail, it manages to assemble it word by word without knowing where it is trying to go in advance.
&udm=14 | the disenshittification Konami code
A quick way to get an AI-free search without any extra work.udm14.com
I get the frustration, but it does actually cost money to make content, especially high effort content like this.
Add on top of that the fact that the people involved need to be able to eat, have a home, provide for their families, have a life.
People would complain if they were sponsored by some shitty VPN provider or the like, and also complain about them trying to sell merch. I certainly wouldn't work for free, so I don't see why they should have to.
It's not really that hard to do a couple of key presses to skip ahead, either. It's what I do.
100%. The recent videos all seem like they’re ragebait (‘alcohol is awesome’ springs to mind).
They could be good, I haven’t watched them. if they’re targeting people who respond to that tone then it’s not for me.
It’s a shame. I liked the earlier videos on ant colonies and strange matter and stars and stuff.
For what it's worth, I kinda agree. Maybe I've changed but I feel like their content over the last year or two is nowhere near as good as it was.
Maybe I've just had a change in taste, though.
I don't think blockchain has any legitimate uses. All of the proposed uses for blockchain are all tech bro nonsense.
I think they were talking about having a decentralised property permits. As if that's something that would be even remotely useful.
Yeah, and if it weren't for the techbro nonsense, it would be tossed onto the pile of mathematical curios that don't have nontrivial uses.
The thing is - we often do find uses for those curiosities years later.
In the mean time, I wouldn't mind if a decentralized video game came along where game assets were decentralized, distributed by bittorrent, and player assets were decentralized and tracked by blockchain.
You'd be surprised how valuable these technologies can be when they're not only being developed to create new financialized services to overcharge people for. Manufacturing and shipping has huge capital and logistic buffers created by information gaps, production shortfalls, fraud, etcetera, and cryptographic ledgers are excellent for ensuring accurate production and inventory information is relayed to clients in realtime. What's more, it has the potential to mediate international transactions without relying on Swift or global banking institutions that are an extension of US authority.
Notice how nothing I said was about fucking NFTs. The western financial system completely lost the plot doing super cocaine and became convinced they could just ask the rest of the world to stay slaves forever. They don't even care about its potential! They want TrumpCoin.
I don't think they are techno-solutionists but that sometimes is the vibe they give off.
I just think there's some directions they won't go thanks to the threat of capital.
If you actually watch the video that's not what they're talking about. They are talking about how it's difficult to fact check information in a world of AI misinformation.
I always find it's easier to know what a video is about if I actually watched the video. It's just this little life hack I've come up with.
Watch the video? Duh. Thanks I watched it, and I know they don’t talk about how AI steals their art style (even though it’s really happening). I just pointed out the irony. The video also says they are usually enthusiastic about new tech but not this time.
I know this channel well enough to have seen countless videos praising fake tech like carbon capture and that’s why I have a problem with them.
Am I allowed to have an opinion?
You are allowed to have an opinion but when it's a stupid opinion expect to be ridiculed for it.
Carbon capture is an actual technology it's real and it works. There's not a lot of it about yet but there's also not a lot of fusion reactors yet but they're also real technology.
capitalism will solve climate change
Tangential, but thats what disgusted me about the Osaka world expo. The theme was sustainability so you had fossil fuel companies presenting wildly impractical "solutions" and art projects. The message was "things are under control, continue sleepwalking into oblivion"
There's nothing helpful about giving up though is there.
And we could stop climate change, it's entirely possible, presumably people don't want to die so they will take action but they probably not going to start to act until climate change becomes more apparent, that's depressing but that's human nature. Humans have a long history of making radical changes at the last minute, e.g the cold war.
We like to go right up to the cliff edge but we tend not to take the final step.
After all even China is cleaning up its act and they're the least likely to be cooperative so if even they're doing something about it there's hope.
They don't say that, though?
They say things like "with effort, we can solve climate change, or minimise its effects."
Which is very different. And personally, I hate over the top doomerism where everyone says everything is fucked beyond repair all the time.
“with effort, we can solve climate change, or minimise its effects.”
The issue is not the claim that with effort we maybe can minimise the effects, it's the techno-utopia angle. We will solve this by changing nothing about the underlying economic system driving climate change, but Bill Gates and other smart billionaires will make some fantastic technology that will save us!
Have you heard of the experiment with swimming rats and how much longer they swam when given hope? We need hope to survive.
Though they don't say we will solve it, but that we can solve it if we start now.
Studies show that when we have it, it can carry us. When we don't, we can drown.
Hope really can keep us alive.Joseph T. Hallinan (Psychology Today)
I'm curious why you have a different title than the video?
Al Slop ls Destroying The Internet
I don't really have an issue with AI slop. It's the same level of quality as most influencer-shit out there.
I just ignore it.
eldavi
in reply to herseycokguzelolacak • • •Blisterexe
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
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in reply to eldavi • • •theregister.com/2025/10/08/ger…
The law would have to get through the courts and parliament too, even if the commission passes it
Germany slams brakes on EU's Chat Control device-scanning snoopfest
Connor Jones (The Register)