What's interesting about the Angela Rayner affair is tax experts & lawyers can see how she could quite easily have received mistaken advice while the commentariat are treating her 'mistake(s)' over stamp duty as a malfeasance.
Perhaps that's because the experts understand the complexity of the law of trusts as it relates to tax, while the commentariat just want to see corruption & bring down a working class woman made good in an unpopular Govt.
someone with enough money to buy an £800 000 seaside flat as a second home is by nature corrupt and incapable of understanding the everyday concerns of ordinary people. She should join her fellow millionaires in the Tories.
err.... no I think its her primary residence - her grace & favour accommodation comes with her job - you may not like that perk, but especially if the critics have their way, she won't have that for much longer & will need her flat in Hove.
As to the value of the flat - welcome to madness of the UK housing market
Deputy Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Angela Rayner’s Net Worth is around £4.7 Million ($6 Million) as of 2025. Angela Rayner earns an annual salary of £159,584 from Deputy Prime Minister of the UK.
Sorry, given the state of the UK, I can’t feel sorry for a multi millionaire. She should join her rich and incompetent chums in the Tory party.
Hmm.... well the FM website where you no doubt picked up this figure from offers no details at all of how they calculated her net worth, indeed not even offering an idea on what it actually is made up of... and given the website's clear financial services bias, I would take that figure with a pinch of salt - looks like attack journalism not fair comment on her wealth - so until I see actual details of that supposed wealth I'm going to discount the claim
The press want it to be story of corruption, but if you look beyond that most of what I am hearing is totally different - it's how the hell can someone with an £800,000 flat claim to understand working people, benefits and the struggles of the disabled.
So I think what it's actually really doing is more interesting - it's showing that it's not just Starmer who is completely unconnected to the real world they live in, but the whole sad lot. #politics #ukpolitics
@etchedpixels you don’t think the fact she left school pregnant at 16 without any qualifications, worked for years as a care worker, then became a trade union official through which she became involved in politics, and having a disabled child might give her a few insights into real life?
I’m no Rayner supporter but seriously? 🤷🏽♂️
The whole point is that the billionaire media can’t bear a working class woman being in a position of power
@etchedpixels You could see it the other way round. Most 'working people' (me included) couldn't begin to run a government department. They might understand the poor, but would they know what levers to pull to help them? Could they manage a budget of millions? Rayner is rare because she can do both - she courageously attempts to support the poor in a system rigged against working class women like her. She's a rare MP, who bridges both worlds, and certainly gets my support.
@ORIOliver @etchedpixels I personally don't think she is corrupt. There are several issues that make people less trusting. Labour MPs foolishly took gifts and this fact was blazened over the msn and the internet, it was a gift! It was a very naive thing to do cos it gives the impression they are greedy or corrupt. In addition the cost of this home is, to many people, very high value and this then is questioned. I'm again not implying corruption but to people on 30 grand or in work benefits this is an astonishing amount of money for a working class woman to spend.
it smells of misogyny and classism tbh, how many of her colleagues in Labour have far more 'interesting' arrangements and why does the Right Wing Press focus on Rayner?
Call me naive but you don’t generally need a lawyer to tell you what’s ethically right, only what you can get away with. I don’t find this unexpected from a Labour MP, it’s an indicator of who they are. I’m probably like a million other ex Labour voters who will happily watch New Improved Labour brought down.
But you might well ask take specialist whether doing a certain thing you needed to do attracted a tax liability.... its a perfectly reasonable question to ask & doesn't indicate any malice of forethought in tax avoidance terms
@Jeffrey Yes. And this is only necessary because (a) our tax system is incomprehensible to normal people, and even sometimes accountants and lawyers, and (b) if you ask HMRC for clarification they usually won't tell you.
I recently asked an accountant "what tax needs to be paid in these new [to me] circumstances?" This is perfectly reasonable and respectable.
@TimWardCam She moved her name from the deeds of a family home to make sure she did not pay tax on this property. A game of “find the loophole” by people that set our tax laws does not appear respectable to me. They presumably try to close loopholes when they set laws. For legislators to then seek loopholes for themselves is distasteful at best. Quite different if ordinary folk need to understand the labyrinthine tax system.
@Jeffrey There may have been an argument that anyone who got divorced shouldn't be in public life - they have already demonstrated that they have poor judgement and/or don't keep their promises. But those days, if they ever existed, are long gone.
Well, I'm not sure in these circumstances, a disabled child whose future is being attended to, we would find that trusts are a legal arrangement as rare as your remark implies.... but as we seem to have also in this thread established that while working class in background she had/has been elevated to the executive class, then a trust would be even less rare as a mechanism, surely?
I'm not sure that the issue is as 'black and white' as this. Individuals have a duty to 'take reasonable care' in matters of taxation. If one is in any doubt then they should seek the advice of a tax advisor or HMRC.
I suspect that it probably wasn't deliberate, but she clearly did not take reasonable care. In my opinion, the failure to do so is unacceptable behaviour for someone in such a senior government position.
I think that's a fair point... but we then come back to the issue of what is reasonable - we might argue in her position she should have routinely gained a second opinion on her tax affairs, but equally most people would think in their own affairs, having received one legal opinion, why gain another? There maybe a judgement issue here, but for me this is pretty minor stuff, compared to the real corruption elsewhere in our political class
Yes, I do totally agree that it's 'small fry' compared to what's happening elsewhere. Labour should however be resurrecting the Nolan Principles from the irrelevance that they became under the last Government. Rightly or wrongly, 'errors' in tax that amount to sums greater than many workers' salaries, are perceived as 'more of the same'.
Yes, the optics (stoked by the media) are not good.... but (I don't know, shall we call it) the 'two tier policing' of infractions was pretty clear....
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#Threads #fediverse O uso de hashtags no Threads é diferente do Mastodon ela se transforma em um tópico, porem quando a postagem chega no Fediverso ela aparece como hashtag mas você não consegue clicar nela.
This made me LOL: While doing some research on the MAGA wingnut Laura Loomer (for no particular reason) I found a document indexed by Constella Intelligence that shows that in 2022 someone sent Loomer a delivery from shitexpress[.]com, a real business that will let you pick from a bunch of different kinds of animal feces to ship to someone's doorstep.
The accompanying message was curiously signed, "Sorry about your pay pal 🙁 " The sender in this case appears to have chosen to send horse shit.
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France : Le Ministre de l’Intérieur veut intensifier la répression contre les Free Party secoursrouge.org/france-le-min… "Après la free party qui a réuni jusqu’à 2 500 personnes ce week-end dans les Corbières, les policiers ont saisi du matériel et effectué plus de 1000 verbalisations. Quelques jours après, le ministre de l’Intérieur Bruno Retailleau s’est dit favorable à réprimer plus durement ces événements en
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Eux : "Bernard Arnault est un capitaine d'industrie valeureux qui crée de l'emploi en FR"
La réalité : des ouvriers chinois payés 4 euros de l'heure qui font 90 heures par semaine pour fabriquer des sacs à 4.000 €, dont LVMH tire des profits gigantesques et Arnault sa richesse
Attaché : 1 image
Eux : "Bernard Arnault est un capitaine d'industrie valeureux qui crée de l'emploi en FR"
La réalité : des ouvriers chinois payés 4 euros de l'heure qui font 90 heures par semaine pour fabriquer des sacs à 4.
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Aujourd'hui, on se raconte des histoires dans un bar-tabac avec Vincent Maël Cardona, et on prend la place d’une morte dans la campagne allemande avec Christian Petzold ; avec aussi Charlotte Garson.
Endor Nim
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Endor Nim • • •@EndorNim
err.... no I think its her primary residence - her grace & favour accommodation comes with her job - you may not like that perk, but especially if the critics have their way, she won't have that for much longer & will need her flat in Hove.
As to the value of the flat - welcome to madness of the UK housing market
Endor Nim
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Deputy Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Angela Rayner’s Net Worth is around £4.7 Million ($6 Million) as of 2025. Angela Rayner earns an annual salary of £159,584 from Deputy Prime Minister of the UK.
Sorry, given the state of the UK, I can’t feel sorry for a multi millionaire. She should join her rich and incompetent chums in the Tory party.
Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Endor Nim • • •@EndorNim
Hmm.... well the FM website where you no doubt picked up this figure from offers no details at all of how they calculated her net worth, indeed not even offering an idea on what it actually is made up of... and given the website's clear financial services bias, I would take that figure with a pinch of salt - looks like attack journalism not fair comment on her wealth - so until I see actual details of that supposed wealth I'm going to discount the claim
Endor Nim
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Gareth Kitchen
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Gareth Kitchen • • •@gruff
Good Q.... it'll be about the class of people who likely use trusts & have legislators' ears
AnneH
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •dode
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to dode • • •@dode
No I think the tryst is to protect the future interests of her disabled child....
Charlotte Walker
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Adam Jacobs 🇺🇦
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •The Penguin of Evil
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •The press want it to be story of corruption, but if you look beyond that most of what I am hearing is totally different - it's how the hell can someone with an £800,000 flat claim to understand working people, benefits and the struggles of the disabled.
So I think what it's actually really doing is more interesting - it's showing that it's not just Starmer who is completely unconnected to the real world they live in, but the whole sad lot.
#politics #ukpolitics
Simon Johnson
in reply to The Penguin of Evil • • •@etchedpixels you don’t think the fact she left school pregnant at 16 without any qualifications, worked for years as a care worker, then became a trade union official through which she became involved in politics, and having a disabled child might give her a few insights into real life?
I’m no Rayner supporter but seriously? 🤷🏽♂️
The whole point is that the billionaire media can’t bear a working class woman being in a position of power
Irena
in reply to The Penguin of Evil • • •Jna💚
in reply to Irena • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Jna💚 • • •@jna @ORIOliver @etchedpixels
Yes, I would agree with all of that
Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Nick
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
Unknown parent • • •@Lassielmr
agreed.... that is the key issue for her (even if the press cannot see it that way)
Jeffrey Rogers 🏴
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Jeffrey Rogers 🏴 • • •@Jeffrey
But you might well ask take specialist whether doing a certain thing you needed to do attracted a tax liability.... its a perfectly reasonable question to ask & doesn't indicate any malice of forethought in tax avoidance terms
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •@Jeffrey Yes. And this is only necessary because (a) our tax system is incomprehensible to normal people, and even sometimes accountants and lawyers, and (b) if you ask HMRC for clarification they usually won't tell you.
I recently asked an accountant "what tax needs to be paid in these new [to me] circumstances?" This is perfectly reasonable and respectable.
Jeffrey Rogers 🏴
in reply to Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Jeffrey Rogers 🏴 • • •@Jeffrey @TimWardCam
Err... like most people who get divorced, one or other keeps the family home (or its sold) and the other takes their names off the deeds.....
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Jeffrey Rogers 🏴
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to Jeffrey Rogers 🏴 • • •@Jeffrey @TimWardCam
Well, I'm not sure in these circumstances, a disabled child whose future is being attended to, we would find that trusts are a legal arrangement as rare as your remark implies.... but as we seem to have also in this thread established that while working class in background she had/has been elevated to the executive class, then a trust would be even less rare as a mechanism, surely?
David S
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •dissident
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •I'm not sure that the issue is as 'black and white' as this. Individuals have a duty to 'take reasonable care' in matters of taxation. If one is in any doubt then they should seek the advice of a tax advisor or HMRC.
I suspect that it probably wasn't deliberate, but she clearly did not take reasonable care. In my opinion, the failure to do so is unacceptable behaviour for someone in such a senior government position.
gov.uk/guidance/reasonable-car…
Reasonable care: tax returns and other documents
HM Revenue & Customs (GOV.UK)Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to dissident • • •@dissident
I think that's a fair point... but we then come back to the issue of what is reasonable - we might argue in her position she should have routinely gained a second opinion on her tax affairs, but equally most people would think in their own affairs, having received one legal opinion, why gain another? There maybe a judgement issue here, but for me this is pretty minor stuff, compared to the real corruption elsewhere in our political class
dissident
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •Emeritus Prof Christopher May
in reply to dissident • • •@dissident
Yes, the optics (stoked by the media) are not good.... but (I don't know, shall we call it) the 'two tier policing' of infractions was pretty clear....
dissident
in reply to Emeritus Prof Christopher May • • •