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Survivors on ‘narco boat’ targeted by Trump order were blown apart after Hegseth verbal command to ‘kill everybody’: Report


More than 80 people killed in campaign that law-of-war experts have labeled extrajudicial murder

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reportedly gave a verbal order to leave no survivors behind as Donald Trump’s administration launched the first of more than a dozen attacks on alleged drug-running boats that have killed more than 80 people over the last three months.

On September 2, U.S. military personnel fired a missile striking a vessel in the Caribbean that carried 11 people accused of trafficking drugs into the United States.

When two survivors emerged from the wreckage, a Special Operations commander overseeing the attack ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions to “kill everybody,” according to The Washington Post, citing officials with direct knowledge of the operation.

in reply to MicroWave

If they didn't kill everyone, it's possible one of them would be able to prove there were no drugs and this is just racism...
in reply to vrek

It probably was drugs - but that is not the point. It's wildly unethical and a violation of many rules of war to simply kill people like they are doing.

We don't summarily execute people at the president's say.

in reply to atzanteol

Seriously. Even domestically they aren't allowed to just waltz into a drugden and open fire.

I mean, they still do but they are least have the claim that they fired in self defence. Not so much when you do it with drone strikes and missiles.

in reply to atzanteol

We don’t summarily execute people at the president’s say.


What do you think a war is? We already set the precedent of being able to declare war on non-state actors and the War Powers act gives him the authority to start shooting without Congressional approval. Which means an American President can legally, (to the US), tell the military they need to go kill cocaine farmers until Congress passes a bill to stop him. And the President can veto that bill. Meaning the legal threshold for Congress to stop the military from killing foreigners in foreign places is the same threshold as impeaching the President.

The War Powers resolution worked as long as it did because it was actually one of many gentleman's agreements that are now defunct.

in reply to atzanteol

i doubt it was drugs. venezuela doesn't have an expressive drug trade and i don't remember the us offering any proof yet.

its just terrorism for an excuse to invade venezuela. more wmds.

and yes you do execute people without any due process when you go to war with a 3rd world country you want something from, thats pretty common.

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in reply to atzanteol

Why would there be 11 people on the boat then? If it was drugs, they would want to maximize the space/weight for cargo...not people.
in reply to MicroWave

If anybody is still under the impression that someone somewhere in the chain of command might refuse illegal orders, this tells you everything you need to know
in reply to HailSeitan

Unfortunately the US doesn't consider that one to be an illegal order. It is heartless, and unnecessary. But ever since the advent of airpower the US has maintained that planes, helicopters, and drones are not required to accept surrender because it is impractical to impossible in any given situation. So the standard is usually to keep firing. Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom had notable exceptions with mass surrender instructions dropped beforehand. And again, I know that's not reassuring. But this is why politics isn't supposed to be a team game. This is the level of power we are making decisions on. For other things that are completely legal but most people don't realize; heavy machineguns can absolutely be used to target individual soldiers; Flamethrowers are still 100 percent legal against military targets; You can be shot after your surrender is accepted, (I'll expand below); You will be shot if you do not or cannot actively surrender; and Nobody respects the rule against shooting medics and medevacs.

To expand on the most inflammatory one, the only time you are "safe" is while you are in custody. Modern combat operations move very fast and surrendering people are often left in place after their weapons are removed/destroyed. If they don't actively surrender again to follow on forces then they are legal targets because we haven't developed psychic powers yet. This especially matters with surrendered wounded who may not be in a condition to surrender again. Shooting bodies as you advance is legal and expected in a war. You just aren't allowed to personally go back and shoot someone again without them presenting a new threat. With that information in mind you should also know the US military and any professional military sends multiple waves across a battlefield. It is incredibly lethal, by design.

I say all this not to call you out but to highlight that war is a giant bag of dicks that most people outside the military are still naïve about.

The other pressing thing here is this is an order to fire on a declared enemy, outside our border. Meaning the president signed a sheet of paper declaring them to be the enemy, Congress hasn't thrown a flag, and they are beyond the jurisdiction of law enforcement. That is very clear cut to the military. If you change any one of those 3 parameters then things go to gray zone or illegal very quickly. Someone asked me some months ago while Trump was vomiting about Greenland if the military would obey that order versus an order to hunt down and kill Americans inside America. And the answer is Greenland would be fucked but those Americans are pretty safe from the military. They are not however safe from anonymous DOJ task forces and DHS.

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in reply to Lka1988

that's not illegal actually. if it were, administrations could try to invent felonies for opposition leaders to have committed. now this particular felon should also have been ineligible to run under the 14th amendment, but he was never charged or tried for those crimes, let alone convicted
in reply to saimen

To use force against Americans inside America without martial law, an act of Congress, or an extenuating circumstance like self defense.

Trump really pushed the envelope by ordering troops to accompany ICE raids under the authorization to guard federal property. But they still couldn't do anything but defend themselves technically. It's just that he effectively tied their self defense to the ICE agents defense. I'm pretty sure the courts knocked that one back and the military pulled back though. Which is why they've gone so hard with Border Patrol, ICE, and any volunteers from within DHS/DOJ that have badges.

in reply to Maggoty

To use force against Americans inside America without martial law, an act of Congress, or an extenuating circumstance like self defense.


so nothing because the idiot king can declare martial law with no justification just as he has broken rules or laws over 200 times in less than a year

in reply to Jhex

That's what these court battles in Los Angeles and Chicago have been about. I've been staying very top level but suffice to say he cannot just yell martial law and charge into a blue city. Laws describe when and how it is proper to do so. The court push back is important not because we think it will restrain Trump, but because the generals are not personally loyal to Trump. As a reminder, Trump wanted to shoot Americans in his first term. It was the establishment that told him no. He tried to directly order the military and a general literally yelled at him for it.

The threat is overwhelmingly from DHS and DOJ. They have the authority, ability, and will. ICE just got funded to an amount equal the British military. The only thing missing is the volunteers and the federal law enforcement training centers have pushed back training for anyone other than ICE to handle the glut of new ICE agents. ICE's detention budget is also now far larger than the federal prison budget. They could theoretically hold about 8 percent of the US population with the budget they got.

Everyone is worried about the military while our federal law enforcement is doing military style presence patrols in Los Angeles.

in reply to Maggoty

I’ve been staying very top level but suffice to say he cannot just yell martial law and charge into a blue city


I want to believe you/this, but honestly laws only matter when they are enforced and so far, it looks like nobody wants to enforce them against the Orange Pedo, therefore, he is subject to no laws

The court push back is important not because we think it will restrain Trump, but because the generals are not personally loyal to Trump


What gives you this impression? I have yet to see even hesitancy from any General in following any order so far

As a reminder, Trump wanted to shoot Americans in his first term. It was the establishment that told him no. He tried to directly order the military and a general literally yelled at him for it.


Yes but this second term is something else, everybody fell in line and the idiot king has SCOTUS bought and paid for

Everyone is worried about the military while our federal law enforcement is doing military style presence patrols in Los Angeles.


Precisely

in reply to Maggoty

and they'll do similar mental gymnastics forever…

the military won't save you Americans

in reply to Maggoty

This has not been adjudicated by anyone. You can say "the US doesn't consider it to be an illegal order". Maybe there is some JAG letter somewhere that says helicopters are not required to accept surrender. But there is nothing that precludes trying everyone involved for war crimes.
in reply to Dragonstaff

Oh it's definitely been US policy for decades. The videos are out there. If you want to talk about what constitutes being "out of combat" and whether the Hague would take the case it could certainly be an interesting exercise. However I doubt the Hague would take it up and neither the Department of Justice nor the military courts are going to take it up without a directive from the President. Democrats aren't going to fall all over themselves to give that directive either though because it would mean Biden and Obama also officially presided over a regime of war crimes.

At the end of the day it comes down to the US having X policy that lies in a gray area of international law. Which leads me to another Bush era policy that we've never really rescinded. If you're not a uniformed soldier in service to an enemy country the US doesn't consider you to have the protections that a soldier would have after surrendering. It was a neat little policy that we used to allow ourselves to torture people labeled terrorists. So yeah that's another thing I expect to hear in the next few days, "cartel members are unlawful combatants."

in reply to HailSeitan

There was the one high profile commander who stepped down du to this. Wish more would follow suit since it’s technically illegal for all involved to disobey orders unless they all do so collectively.
in reply to HailSeitan

There's a big difference between this and shooting at unarmed American citizens who are legally exercising their 1st Amendment Rights.
in reply to HailSeitan

Yes. If Americans haven't proved they're generally racist and Nationalistic, I don't know what else it would take.

It sounds like you're trying to make a gotcha, but it's quite fair to say a member of the military who murders Venezuelans at whim may still balk if ordered to kill white American.

in reply to MicroWave

I'm a world where laws mattered those words would haunt him all the way to the gallows.
in reply to TammyTobacco

The U.S. doesn't recognize the ICC and sanctions its officials if they investigate war crimes by the U.S. or its allies.

We briefly ratified the Rome Statute in 2000 but pulled out shortly after invading Afghanistan and shortly before invading Iraq.

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in reply to TammyTobacco

The us said it would invade the Hague of anyone were tried and attempted to be put on trial.

"all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American…

in reply to MicroWave

Dont worry everyone. Republicans will praise the pedophile and friends through tweets. The Democrats will post a mildly worded tweet. No one will actually do anything.
in reply to MicroWave

It's not a warcrime if you've never formally declared war points finger at temple.
in reply to MicroWave

11 people? There were 11 people on the boat? There's no fucking way that was a drug smuggling boat. 11 people means at least nine people's worth of weight that can't be dedicated to drugs.
in reply to njm1314

it was not proven those boats were ~~not~~ carrying drugs nor have fuel capacity to reach the US coasts. They most likely killed fisher boats:

factually.co/fact-checks/justi…

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in reply to answersplease77

it was proven those boats were not carrying drugs


Was it? Because I can't find any reliable source corroborating that

in reply to OsrsNeedsF2P

the better description to say that it was not proven they were carrying drugs, and they were most likely fisher boats.

that's why they said legally they were proven not guilty of carrying drugs:

this website does good job providing sources to all claims:

factually.co/fact-checks/justi…

in reply to MicroWave

every American is going to hell for the murders of our elected officials are committing . i hope the deaths that are happening is not tolerated by god if he really exists.
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in reply to Eddbopkins

Even of God dint exist i Hope these officers and soldiers and contributors go to where they can experience the suffering they caused
in reply to MicroWave

What's the conversion rate on Venezuelans to Austrian Archdukes?
in reply to fartographer

1 billion venezuelans per 1 Austrian archduke
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in reply to MicroWave

God you can just tell that he gets off on the feeling that he had the power to kill people. Gets him moist.
in reply to MicroWave

It is literally a crime against humanity to declare no quarter be given.

Edit: US Code literally prescribes death for war crimes when that crime results in death: uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?re…

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in reply to Randomgal

Doesn't mean they can't issue a warrant, which would mean he can't ever leave the US after he's done being president.
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in reply to Sunflier

Bro the US literally has enshrined a law that authorizes them to 'legally' invade the Hague if any of them are tried or captired.

I wouldn't hold my breath. The ICC was always an extension of US imperialism.

in reply to Randomgal

Bro the US literally has enshrined a law that authorizes them to ‘legally’ invade the Hague if any of them are tried or captired.


Going to need a citation to the statute. Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to see where it is for a better understanding.

The ICC was always an extension of US imperialism.


X Doubt.

But, even if that were true, the ICC has carried forth good actualizations of justice.

in reply to Randomgal

Bro the US literally has enshrined a law that authorizes them to ‘legally’ invade the Hague if any of them are tried or captired.


I think it depends on whether or not the next administration turns them over.

in reply to Randomgal

I seriously doubt the USA would invade a country in Europe. That would be the end of "the West" as it is currently recognized.
in reply to MicroWave

But Americans won’t take Hegseth out because that would just be so uncouth and WE WOULD BE NO BETTER THAN HIM.

Cowards.

in reply to MicroWave

Our ancestors didn't defy kings, battle their own wayward countrymen, charge trenches, and rush fortified beaches headlong into the jaws of death. . .

**. . .for. This. Whatever the disgraceful hell this is.**

About now, every real patriot for what's good about this country should feel a profound and gnawing agony at every passing day these monsters aren't held to account and rendered incapable of further harm to humanity, whatever form that would take.

We need to make it loud and clear that if "the other team" in places of power doesn't use every single tool at their disposal to end this threat IMMEDIATELY, they are complicit fools and will be held accountable as accomplices to whatever untold horrors would await us, should we refuse to hold the line.

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in reply to MonkeMischief

Yea, this bothers me. At this point I agree that any politician that doesnt start fighting this Nazi is a traitor to the US.
in reply to MicroWave

Man I knew he said that but I didn't know it was in that context. Murderous fucker!
in reply to MicroWave

There will be a National Lottery for seats for when he and his ilk are read their sentences and have their fusillade carried out.
in reply to MicroWave

That sounds rather... war-crime-y.

Should the orange cancer expect sternly written letters off displeasure (that are written at an adult comprehension level and not written in crayon, leading to him disregarding them ofc)?

in reply to MicroWave

As I understand, not a single one of these boats were even remotely capable of making it to America to begin with. Not without refueling, which isn’t likely that we’re set up for it.

This was all a coordinated targeted mass murder right in front of our faces and they need to be tried and punished for every one.

in reply to MicroWave

What is the difference between the US military, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), and Hamas? The US military is the most effective, the Israeli Defense Forces are less effective than the US military, but much more than Hamas, Hamas is the least effective. Okay, the Russian military is probably the least effective. Let me rephrase this. To someone, someone's hero is a terrorist. And vice versa. If a military force can kill without accountability, it is a terrorist organization, like Hamas or the IDF.
in reply to MicroWave

Jesus fucking Christ, the bastards went full movie trope.

"What do we do with the survivors, sir?"

"There were no survivors. Do you understand?"