Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year
Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year
Google says it’s no different than checking IDs at the airport.Ryan Whitwam (Ars Technica)
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ReedReads
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Engywook
in reply to ReedReads • • •like this
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Natanox
in reply to Engywook • • •Engywook
in reply to Natanox • • •ChilledPeppers
in reply to Engywook • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to Engywook • • •Noxy
in reply to Engywook • • •Engywook
in reply to Noxy • • •Noxy
in reply to Engywook • • •I daily drive a Pixel 8 Pro and it's never felt underpowered to me. I have no need or desire to look at benchmarks.
It's a fair point to make to say they're expensive, but that's not really relevant to their actual quality or performance, both of which are fine. And the used market seems pretty good for these things, too.
Cochise
in reply to Engywook • • •Cevilia (she/they/…)
in reply to ReedReads • • •DeathByBigSad
in reply to ReedReads • • •like this
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traceur201
in reply to DeathByBigSad • • •Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to DeathByBigSad • • •I see it this way.
Google wants everyone using gapps to be identified but isn't outright saying you can't use Android without certification.
"Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device"
So LOS and Graphene may get off the hook on this and be able to install whatever non-google apps they need. By default, neither have google services.
Sucks for the gapps people, but, I mean. They knew it was coming, right?
DeathByBigSad
in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge • • •Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to DeathByBigSad • • •daniskarma
in reply to ReedReads • • •mexicancartel
in reply to ReedReads • • •Arcane2077
in reply to mexicancartel • • •mexicancartel
in reply to Arcane2077 • • •zipzoopaboop
in reply to mexicancartel • • •mexicancartel
in reply to zipzoopaboop • • •Cassa
in reply to jystfact • • •J-Bone
in reply to jystfact • • •Wait, what the hell?
I can't believe this, who the hell are they to decide what I should install?
They are welcome to curate their own store, but sideloading concerns only the user.
Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.
Fucking corrupt American oligarchs.
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BlackEco
in reply to J-Bone • • •This is very similar to the notarization process Apple introduced to comply with the EU requirement of allowing third-party stores, and yet the EU doesn't seem concerned (maybe because Apple did not allow third-party stores in the first place, will it be different for Google?)
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J-Bone
in reply to BlackEco • • •Not an Apple user, so I didn't know about this. Extremely disappointing.
It really does seem avoiding any and all American services/products (to the extent possible, with exceptions where reasonable) is the only way forward.
I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the US is a ethical, cultural and even economic dead end. Yes even economic, only a fool would believe intense corruption and broad support of criminality and corruption among the population will not have any negative effects in the future.
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Onomatopoeia
in reply to J-Bone • • •You think this wouldn't happen elsewhere?
It's not just an American thing, it's an asshoke thing, and those people are everywhere, and will always find a way.
J-Bone
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •Of course it can happen elsewhere.
Just US has a massive influence on tech platforms, and they are currently under-going an oligarch takeover (oligarch influence was already bad irrespective of whether the far right or centre right was in power).
Mind you I am not anti-American. I have largely always defended the US as a matter of pragmatism (it is the largest and most influential democracy-leaning country with a measure of respect for human right). US has done really bad things, but they have done good things as well. I can't say the same about say China or Russia.
Tollana1234567
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •Auli
in reply to J-Bone • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to Auli • • •J-Bone
in reply to Auli • • •I clarified what I meant by economic dead end. It's not going to happen tomorrow or even in ten years. But absolute corruption, rollback of democracy and a population where a large number of people support crime and corruption will have a caustic effect in the long term. It's a straw man to suggest that I was claiming an immense collapse in American economic might.
At one point the "sun never set on the British empire" and now the British empire is no more. There are also examples of economies that were once top end, but are now closer to middle income.
I don't think you understand the extent to which American "soft power" is being eroded right now. What countries have you lived in? What languages other than English do you speak? Do you have close friends in other countries?
Of course America is major economy, that doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just look at the state of Chinese products in the early 2000s and where they are now.
People don't like thugs and liars, especially ones who are constantly parroting polemics about "freedom for this and that" while engaging in criminality and opposing democracy.
Ulrich
in reply to J-Bone • • •red_bull_of_juarez
in reply to jystfact • • •like this
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skarn
in reply to red_bull_of_juarez • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to skarn • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to skarn • • •Default Username
in reply to red_bull_of_juarez • • •I just use my banking through the web UI. Why do you need an app for it? If it's for check deposits, try using an old phone as a dedicated banking device.
If you don't use apps that depend on Google services, consider deGoogling your phone.
Tollana1234567
in reply to Default Username • • •DeathByBigSad
in reply to jystfact • • •Its 2050, you are waiting outside of the HR Office waiting for them to talk to you. You're certain that your job has just been replaced by a robot.
Fuck this shit, you thought, 90% of the people are unemployed anyways, fuck this 16 hour shift.
You pull out your hand terminal (yes a "hand terminal", as "smartphones" no longer have local storage now, almost all computing is done on cloud) and start typing in your journal app: "Down with the regime, Down with tyranny!". You tap "save".
"Action not authorized. This incident has been reported"
2 seconds later, you can hear sirens in the distance growing louder and louder.
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TipsyMcGee
in reply to DeathByBigSad • • •like this
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Tollana1234567
in reply to HarkMahlberg • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to DeathByBigSad • • •RedPandaRaider
in reply to jystfact • • •like this
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DebatableRaccoon
in reply to jystfact • • •What, and Google is now the TSA? Fuck that shit. I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!
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DrDystopia
in reply to DebatableRaccoon • • •You bought a phone but is leasing the software. It's not yours to do with as you please.
Have you considered using fully open source android versions?
Panini
in reply to DrDystopia • • •DrDystopia
in reply to Panini • • •DebatableRaccoon
in reply to Panini • • •ColeSloth
in reply to DrDystopia • • •DrDystopia
in reply to ColeSloth • • •zarenki
in reply to DrDystopia • • •No custom ROM on a recent smartphone technically gives you a fully open source Android system when they rely on vendor-provided proprietary blobs in order for basic hardware functionality to work at all. Unless you want to go without a modem, GPS, and likely more depending on your model, at which point it's functionally no longer a smartphone.
Open-source custom ROMs are at least far more open-source than the alternative in most of the ways that matter most, including the ability to change the code in order to remove app installation restrictions, to avoid Google's telemetry, etc.
DrDystopia
in reply to zarenki • • •Would the proprietary blobs in the baseband hardware stop the end user from installing software, which is the topic of concern?
If no, is this a irrelevant "achtually"-reply?
DebatableRaccoon
in reply to DrDystopia • • •panda_abyss
in reply to DebatableRaccoon • • •Okay, let’s check ids wherever you leave the house, since that’s the sane as checking them at the airport.
Papers please, right?
Tollana1234567
in reply to panda_abyss • • •DebatableRaccoon
in reply to panda_abyss • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to DebatableRaccoon • • •DebatableRaccoon
in reply to Tollana1234567 • • •I can't say anything for the Reddit part of what you said but I agree with Google's unethical datamining. It's no secret what Google has been doing. I remember when the tinfoil-hat-wearers were warning people about those nifty little Google speakers people were generously inviting into their homes, telling them to watch what they were saying in the general vicinity of the speakers, that Google could be using them to listen to every conversation. The naysayers said "They wouldn't do that, that'd be illegal. The speaker only listens when I say 'Hey Google' and they wouldn't be saving what I say anyway!". Lo and behold, it finally got leaked that was wrong, that the speakers were listening 24/7 and Google was keeping everything. I could be wrong but I recall something going around that Google even admitted they were keeping the recordings. Suddenly the conversation died down, there was no lawsuit for espionage or any such thing and the naysayers suddenly converted to "I've got nothing to hide, I don't care if I'm being recorded". Ignorance remains forever blissful, it would seem.
Quick note for the pedantic: No, it's not just Google. Amazon, Apple and Microsoft are doing it too. If there's a microphone in your house, be mindful of what you're saying around it; you never know how an innocuous conversation might be used against you.
Twoafros
in reply to jystfact • • •fuck google!
Who can I donate to that is working on making alternative OS accessible on android or iphones?
I know there are alternative OS already out there but they aren't as universally accessible compared to how Linux can run on any PC.
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anon5621
in reply to Twoafros • • •Twoafros
in reply to anon5621 • • •anon5621
in reply to Twoafros • • •Default Username
in reply to Twoafros • • •The only way to bypass a forced bootloader lock is to find a bootrom exploit. It's basically like jailbreaking an iPhone or a console at that point.
Note, the iPhone hasn't had a working jailbreak in years. Samsung phones in the US also haven't been able to be unlocked in years.
Android would be even harder because of how fragmented the market is. There are many different phones from many different manufacturers.
mfed1122
in reply to Twoafros • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to mfed1122 • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to anon5621 • • •Björn Tantau
in reply to Twoafros • • •SapphironZA
in reply to Twoafros • • •01011
in reply to jystfact • • •like this
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sk1nnym1ke
in reply to jystfact • • •cyrano
in reply to jystfact • • •like this
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Cassa
in reply to cyrano • • •lineageos does support far more phone vendors; who knows what pixel phones will be like in the future
I'm hoping on fairphone to get graphene support 🤷
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cyrano
in reply to Cassa • • •tranquil_cassowary
in reply to Cassa • • •They are actually very far removed from meeting them, compared to OEMs like Samsung.
GrapheneOS Frequently Asked Questions
GrapheneOSLichtblitz
in reply to cyrano • • •tranquil_cassowary
in reply to Lichtblitz • • •GrapheneOS has largely worked around this by automating creating device support themselves using "adevtool". The current Pixels' hardware supports installing third-party OSes and will continue to do so, they will support those Pixels until EOL. For future Pixels (Pixel 10 series has not yet launched, only available for pre-order), it remains to be seen whether they still fully support installing third-party OSes. If they do, GrapheneOS will also support them, but it might take much longer to implement device support because they need to make this by themselves and this is more difficult doing it from scratch than being able to use the old Android device support for it as a base, like they could do for the existing devices when Google did their rugpull.
They have not really vendor locked themselves for the future. They have hardware requirements listed in their FAQ: grapheneos.org/faq#device-supp…
Google just happened to be the only company meeting those requirements, which weren't even that strict, becuase other OEMs just didn't prioritize security.
But, there is good news. GrapheneOS is currently in active talks with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them meet the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.
GrapheneOS Frequently Asked Questions
GrapheneOSLichtblitz
in reply to tranquil_cassowary • • •I don't know. They designed the requirements in a way that only Google met them. It didn't "happen" to meet them after the fact.
It's like demanding yellow hard hats on a construction site. Sure, they are safe and highly visible. Would it make sense to allow black hard hats as well if it means not locking into a single vendor and try pushing for high vis while having a stronger base? And also working around the issue with a vest? I don't know the answer to that but it's clear that they have made a conscious decision to move into the situation that they now find themselves in.
tranquil_cassowary
in reply to Lichtblitz • • •Lichtblitz
in reply to tranquil_cassowary • • •I didn't say they need to rip something out. I didn't say their current efforts to open up weren't valid.
I specifically said that I don't know whether it would have made sense to start with reduced requirements.
I just stated that they didn't "happen" to only support Google. I simply acknowledged how they knew exactly that the standard they were writing would only be matched by one vendor as they were writing it.
tranquil_cassowary
in reply to Lichtblitz • • •Lichtblitz
in reply to tranquil_cassowary • • •tranquil_cassowary
in reply to Lichtblitz • • •Natanox
in reply to cyrano • • •The only proper solution is to focus fully on the new Linux Mobile ecosystem and become independent from Google-maintained shit (and hardware - Graphene is based on Google Pixels, they literally exist at the mercy of Google). Otherwise they will fuck you over again and again. Not saying getting Linux Mobile on par will be easy, but it's our only true, permanent option aside from rejecting smartphones altogether.
cyrano
in reply to Natanox • • •WanderingThoughts
in reply to cyrano • • •traceur201
in reply to cyrano • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to traceur201 • • •Only because Graphene is about using a security chip.
Lineage isn't, so runs on more devices. I'd argue most people don't have risks that require the security of Graphene.
But the moment another phone manufacturer decides to use a similar security chip, Graphene will be on it.
tranquil_cassowary
in reply to traceur201 • • •dragon-donkey3374
in reply to jystfact • • •brainwashed
in reply to dragon-donkey3374 • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to brainwashed • • •Auli
in reply to dragon-donkey3374 • • •dragon-donkey3374
in reply to Auli • • •Semjaza
in reply to dragon-donkey3374 • • •Chinese version of YouTube (bilibili (B站)) has built in sleep timer functionality.
That beats the hell out of the adverts and autoplay rubbish YouTube subjects people not using Invidious or Piped to.
floo
in reply to jystfact • • •“ but android is open source! You can do whatever you want with it!”
A 20 year-old lie, and I’m glad to see the android worshipers finally realize it was always a load of shit.
You can complain about iOS all you like, but android is no better. It’s about time people started to realize that.
baggachipz
in reply to floo • • •I just upvoted a comment which is sure to get downvoted to hell.
You’re right though, the idea that you could “do whatever you want” with android was always a fantasy.
Me right now:
Onomatopoeia
in reply to baggachipz • • •Can I install an independently compiled version of iOS an an iPhone, equivalent to Lineage or Graphene?
I'm currently running a fork of Lineage called DivestOS. That's 3 more versions of OS than available for iOS.
Stop acting like they're the same, because they're not. I use iOS for my work devices, and have since 2010.1 my personal devices are Android, because iOS won't allow me to do things as simple as move files the way I need to.
baggachipz
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •Watch out, we got a badass over here!
Sounds to me like you’re not using android, and this your condescending rhetorical question does not apply. Sure, you can put forks of forks on your device, but good luck running banking or travel or healthcare apps, among many others.
TheAgeOfSuperboredom
in reply to floo • • •like this
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Marshezezz
in reply to TheAgeOfSuperboredom • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to Marshezezz • • •Marshezezz
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •baggachipz
in reply to TheAgeOfSuperboredom • • •electric_nan
in reply to baggachipz • • •B-TR3E
in reply to floo • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to floo • • •There's a world of difference between iOS and Android.
Just look at Lineage and Graphene. Both independently compiled versions of Android. Show me the equivalent in iOS.
Mika
in reply to jystfact • • •Any chance you can just remove their shit via adb?
Mika
in reply to Mika • • •Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to jystfact • • •Looks like I'm gonna just carry a stock phone, give it nothing but the most basic information and tether it to a laptop over a VPN. They stop tethering? I'll use VOIP and a hotspot.
Welcome back to 2011. Maybe messenger bags will come back into fashion in foss culture.
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Onomatopoeia
in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge • • •Run Lineage on your phone of choice.
Or if you're paranoid, a Pixel with Graphene.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •...What about after September 2026?
Well, there's one teensy tiny caveat.
Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device.
So, in theory... no gapps, no approval necessary?
Open devs just have to have two versions, as many already do, one signed with Google's spyware and one on github/fdroid with nothing.
eva
in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge • • •Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to eva • • •Seems about right, for as long as they can.
I'd even consider the possibility of "google-free" phones showing up on kickstarter in two or three years for the tinkerer market. That market exists. Raspberrypi didn't buy itself. We are here!
jystfact
in reply to jystfact • • •archonet
in reply to jystfact • • •like this
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cerebralhawks
in reply to jystfact • • •As an iPhone guy, I always thought, what apps am I missing? It was mostly emulators. Then Apple allowed them, and I ask the question again.
Oh yeah, we have Delta, why doesn't Android have anything like that? So, in a nutshell, I can uninstall Delta right now. App gone, games gone, saves gone, it's all gone. No longer have any trace of it on my iPhone. Go to the App Store and download it. Empty library. Got to start over, right? Wrong. Go into Settings, connect Google Drive. It's now downloading my games, my saves, my settings. Everything back where I was. Would be so cool if it were on all the platforms, so a game started on one could be picked up and played on another. Not necessarily Android <==> iOS, but more like phone <==> computer/tablet.
Yeah, so anyway, what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
I get it's a slippery slope and future implications. I get that. I'm just not seeing the issue now.
Also, it seems like Google has taken away all the things that would convince you not to get an iPhone. They took your headphone jack (though an Android was the first to do so). They took your microSD card slot. The tech always sucked, no one tried to make it better; past 16 or maybe 32GB the write speeds were too low to be usable. Now they're coming for your sideloading? Honestly what is the argument for staying?
ReluctantZen
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •For me, it's an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone, but I try to get whatever I can from F-Droid. On other devices like my TV, tablet and e-reader, I'm not even logged in and use F-Droid and the Aurora Store instead. Not having to rely on Google is great.
There are still Android phones with headphone jacks
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baggachipz
in reply to ReluctantZen • • •Uh.
ReluctantZen
in reply to baggachipz • • •ftbd
in reply to ReluctantZen • • •Onomatopoeia
in reply to ReluctantZen • • •ReluctantZen
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •I can try it though
cerebralhawks
in reply to ReluctantZen • • •Yes, my Android phone (Galaxy S10) has a headphone jack and a microSD card reader and a fingerprint reader. And it's a flaghship. But it's a 2019 flagship. (Still does things better than my iPhone 16 Pro Max, which is Apple's flagship from last year, and still their current flagship model. Most notably, the Android keyboard is better.)
Do any new flagship Android phones have headphone jacks? Not that I need one. I'm 100% on board with AirPods. Love them. I own headphones but it's a lesser experience. I have some decent (not great) over the ear Sennheisers (they were around $50, so not audiophile range, probably the brand's entry model) and they're good enough, but the AirPods are a better experience in many ways. But anyway, mid-range Android phones have headphone jacks, but they're underpowered compared to flagships, and Android flagships are underpowered next to iPhones of the same year. So while granted, a mid-range 2025 Android likely outperforms my S10 across the board, I have no reason to upgrade what is essentially my backup phone.
ReluctantZen
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •Less and less. Sony still does and Asus still does on their ROG Phones, but dropped it for the Zenfone 12 so not sure how long they'll last with it still (I love my Zenfone 9, so a bit sad about it).
Shockingly little nowadays. If I search between 300-500 euro, I can only find Sony, Poco and two Samsungs (A25 and Xcover 7).
Marshezezz
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •cerebralhawks
in reply to Marshezezz • • •Not actually true, there are still some scam apps on the App Store. As long as they have recurring subscriptions, Apple doesn't care too much. It's the free apps that are just as good, they will bury, even if they have users.
As far as music, I agree. I use Apple Music because it's the best streaming service for my needs and they pay artists better than the other big one. But on iOS you also have Marvis Pro and MusicHarbor. I couldn't get that experience on Android. The actual Apple Music app is great on Android, and it has gotten better, but on iOS I still prefer Marvis, which is a frontend to Music.app.
Sauerkraut
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •When I upgraded my Samsung to a OnePlus13, Samsung's app that manages the tag device flat out had an error message telling me that it could only work on Samsung phones. 5 minutes later I found an open source app allowed me to use the Galaxy tag that I paid for on my new phone. Samsung has some of the best engineers in the world so they were 100% lying or intentionally trying to brick my tag device to either force me to buy their overpriced phones...
And that is just one example. I use tons of open source apps. For almost any useful app you can think of, there is a free open source version. Premium-YouTube? Newpipe is ad-free with all the premium features for free.
prole
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •Ibuthyr
in reply to prole • • •jim3692
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •On the Android world, there are various Firefox forks with privacy enhancements. Such an example is IronFox. These apps are not listed on Play Store, and are, instead, distributed through F-Droid.
Besides this, there is a big difference between the policies of Play Store and F-Droid. Play Store takes your compiled blob, runs some security tests, signs it and publishes it. F-Droid, on the other hand, requires that all the source code is public and compiles the app.
This allows the users to be sure that the apps cannot be tampered by their developers. While, on Play Store, devs can easily submit applications that aren't built based on the published source code.
Onomatopoeia
in reply to cerebralhawks • • •Well, for starters, versions of apps without Google play store tracking. Or without GMS/Firebase so the apps aren't constantly being awakened whenever someone else decides.
Or old apps that Google has decided you don't need anymore because they "won't run" on current versions of Android, yet work fine.
Or, any app category that Google doesn't permit you to publish to play, like my system wide ad blockers.
Or apps that aren't malware, since Play store is the single greatest source of malware.
cerebralhawks
in reply to Onomatopoeia • • •AdAway isn't in the Play Store? That was my ad blocker back in the day... on, like, Jellybean and KitKat.
Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Google has since banned ad blockers. They threaten their business model after all.
Mwa
in reply to jystfact • • •skisnow
in reply to Mwa • • •Mwa
in reply to skisnow • • •Freakazoid
in reply to jystfact • • •Balldowern
in reply to jystfact • • •So I guess my next phone will be a Chinese phone. Even if it spies on me, I'll have the freedom to install whatever I want from anywhere.
The Chinese have a golden window of opportunity. Let's hope they don't mess this up.
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Sauerkraut
in reply to Balldowern • • •Fijxu
in reply to Sauerkraut • • •like this
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Truscape
in reply to Fijxu • • •viking
in reply to Balldowern • • •LOL. Chinese phones are way worse, they simply block installations of "unsanctioned" apps with no workaround.
My wife is Chinese and I used to live there for 7 years, it's an absolute privacy nightmare.
Eyck_of_denesle
in reply to viking • • •viking
in reply to Eyck_of_denesle • • •Balldowern
in reply to viking • • •viking
in reply to Balldowern • • •Oppo = OnePlus
Huawei bootlaoders can't be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.
Honor bootlaoders can't be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.
Poco seems possible for now, never used one of their phones, but well good that there's something possible.
fishy
in reply to viking • • •Alcoholicorn
in reply to viking • • •Bongles
in reply to viking • • •viking
in reply to Bongles • • •Bongles
in reply to viking • • •So I bought it from giztop, they take the Chinese version of the phone, get the Google play store on there and get it set to English, plus a couple other things, so that it's easier for you to get started with. I bought this because I had thought they'd make a global version and I could flash that rom when that happened, and only deal with some Chinese sections of the phone for a short while, but for some reason they didn't with this specific phone, they did for the 14 ultra.
I busted the phone out again to see the popup I was talking about, but actually one of the (semi) recent updates made it so the buttons are english. I am allowed to just install things with a few pop-up warnings and the phone does some kind of check. I wonder if it's because it's an "unlocked" phone (I don't know if it's the same in China where a carrier locks the phone to their network and has their own shit installed if you buy it from them) or what.
Either way, interesting.
Semjaza
in reply to viking • • •As someone who uses a Xiaomi phone, that's not true.
It was a faff getting it to install any random apk I found of off the Internet, but it was possible. Did involve holding down a graphic for 10 seconds as part of the unlock procedure.
But for now at least, you can still install any unsigned apk without going through a store.
Truscape
in reply to Balldowern • • •I guess if GrapheneOS finally gets spoken to by a manufacturer interested in filling this market gap, that would be awesome too.
Hell, maybe it could be a chinese manufacturer.
tranquil_cassowary
in reply to Truscape • • •mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to tranquil_cassowary • • •tranquil_cassowary
in reply to mnemonicmonkeys • • •Alcoholicorn
in reply to Balldowern • • •kalpol
in reply to Alcoholicorn • • •DoucheBagMcSwag
in reply to jystfact • • •I believe disabling play protect turns this off
Edit: no it doesn't. This is play integrity API which can't be disabled and will be in the APK itself.... hopefully it can be patched out
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reksas
in reply to jystfact • • •like this
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skisnow
in reply to jystfact • • •For the benefit of those reacting based on the headline and one-sentence summary, yes it's a pain, I agree with the mob that it should be the user's choice what they install, BUT, the headline is badly written, in that it implies that the app itself has to be verified, and also many commenters seem to have also inferred that it means an Apple walled-garden style Play Store lock-in which also isn't the case. (a better headline might have been "sideloading of Android apps from unverified publishers")
You can still publish and run apps from outside of the Play Store, but publishers will need to get a verified key from Google to sign them with. Google don't have any visibility of what the app actually is, they just issue you a key and you do whatever you want with it.
(EDIT: fuck me, don't shoot the messenger, just because you don't like what Google is doing. I even opened by saying I agreed that the user should be able to choose, knowing full well that the sort of person who doesn't read past the headline also would interpret correcting it as a defense of Google... guess I'd have been better off just quietly leaving y'all to get angry over things that didn't actually happen)
dysprosium
in reply to skisnow • • •like this
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critical
in reply to dysprosium • • •like this
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JPAKx4
in reply to skisnow • • •All Google would have to do is check what key an app is using on a user's device and they can invalidate it. Someone made a youtube vanced 2 (not revanced)? Google can easily invalidate it for everyone using this process.
Even if I misunderstand how the key works and it's more of a signature, it would mean that if you try to download an older app then it could fail bc the signature expired and isn't maintained anymore. You also run into the same issue with not being renewed if Google chooses.
My point is it could effectively be a side loading killer, maybe not right away but the point of sideloading is the independence which this takes away
ReluctantZen
in reply to skisnow • • •katy ✨
in reply to skisnow • • •Cochise
in reply to skisnow • • •kingthrillgore
in reply to jystfact • • •Corkyskog
in reply to kingthrillgore • • •zod000
in reply to jystfact • • •mushroommunk
in reply to zod000 • • •fishy
in reply to mushroommunk • • •Auli
in reply to fishy • • •fishy
in reply to Auli • • •I'm making a statement about companies in general. People are just so willing to bend over and take it. In my mind people used to have more gumption, but I'm probably overestimating how much was individuals vs how the media portrayed things.
Feels like if Upton Sinclair released "the jungle" today we'd all collectively say "oh well, guess we're eating rats and formaldehyde."
zod000
in reply to mushroommunk • • •mushroommunk
in reply to zod000 • • •TigerAce
in reply to mushroommunk • • •zod000
in reply to TigerAce • • •eva
in reply to TigerAce • • •TigerAce
in reply to eva • • •I'm confused. I read an article about the new 3310 getting the ability to install apps, a long time ago. I found an article on how to do so, but it doesn't look like the 3310 screen in the screenshots but a general android OS. I thought it had a simplified OS, either their own or a stripped down android (unsure) as it has a tiny screen.
It's the Nokia 3310 4G model according to this article. But it might be a generic article in which they have the phone model automatically generated by the one you search for?
zod000
in reply to mushroommunk • • •interdimensionalmeme
in reply to zod000 • • •xistera
in reply to interdimensionalmeme • • •interdimensionalmeme
in reply to xistera • • •samus12345
in reply to jystfact • • •Linux-based Android build when?
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mushroommunk
in reply to samus12345 • • •katy ✨
in reply to mushroommunk • • •Ganbat
in reply to mushroommunk • • •kalpol
in reply to Ganbat • • •zebidiah
in reply to jystfact • • •The current trends and direction of tech is making me want to become Amish...
I'm getting so fucking sick of everything turning into shit, what's even the point of fucking point anymore? This is borderline kernel level enshitification
VitoRobles
in reply to zebidiah • • •The Amish that I grew up near were big into shunning, child marriage, sexual abuse, not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.
I'm just saying it might be easier to switch to open source or something.
the_crotch
in reply to VitoRobles • • •TIL I'm 2/5ths Amish
Auli
in reply to zebidiah • • •Tempus Fugit
in reply to jystfact • • •Trihilis
in reply to Tempus Fugit • • •rumba
in reply to Trihilis • • •If postmarket gets the drivers under control, we can be running relatively vanilla distros on them. There's already a version of NixOS that leans on postmarkets work to run Nic right on a dozen different phones
You just need a window manager that can handle touch, small form factor, and just a couple of gigs of RAM. And there are already projects doing that.
Trihilis
in reply to rumba • • •rumba
in reply to Trihilis • • •I feel ya friend.
Those guys are getting really decent funding, then Gnome and Plasma-mobile are already serviceable. It's really just a matter of reverse engieering the cellular radio/voice/volte and the true hard part of the networks not pulling the rug on that work.
Tempus Fugit
in reply to Trihilis • • •cyrano
in reply to jystfact • • •Purism - – Librem 5
puri.sminterdimensionalmeme
in reply to cyrano • • •Barbecue Cowboy
in reply to interdimensionalmeme • • •Jolla is definitely interesting, but search around, there are caveats.
One notable thing is that until pretty recently they were on a subscription model for OS updates, that turned a lot of people off. I get the need for continued funding, but definitely not something I'd want to deal with on my phone.
Also, for me personally, my phone is partially for work too so it needs to be compatible with that or else I honestly probably don't really even need a phone. Jolla has some preliminary support there, but there's no way it could pass our requirements for MDM compliance at my company and I doubt it would for most others. There are things that are non-optional there in relation to audit requirements that a lot of very different companies all have to comply with and it's just not compatible with the idea. That's probably going to be the major sticking point for any smaller players trying to break into the mobile market.
I might consider a Jolla tablet if they gave it another shot, but we do have a lot more options in the linux non-phone portable space.
mnemonicmonkeys
in reply to cyrano • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to mnemonicmonkeys • • •Assuming you are in US, it seems dependent on ATT backbone. That is not a complete turnoff for me. I use ATT and the covereage is almost perfect. I cannot recall the last time I lost service.
I would be willing to call the company with questions and try it for everyone, assuming the pass the qusstions. Do you send ifo to AI like fairphone? Do you have any deals with Google? Are you open source?
Well, nevermind. They have nothing in stock that has a North American modem.
TigerAce
in reply to jystfact • • •You're not a fucking airport, Google!
YiddishMcSquidish
in reply to TigerAce • • •Don_alForno
in reply to YiddishMcSquidish • • •TigerAce
in reply to Don_alForno • • •quoll
in reply to TigerAce • • •Bongles
in reply to jystfact • • •It also becomes no different than iPhone, so.. what's keeping me to android if they do this? Or hey, maybe I'll commit to de-googling. I have CoMaps, I'm planning to setup nextcloud soon... Hell, I don't even buy anything on Google play anymore since it's so shit, i have no purchases tying me to the OS. Maybe I'll buy a cheap old iPhone so I can finally use imessage with everyone that's been bitching about me and use other tech for everything else.
(I'm not going to iPhone, but the point stands)
tmyakal
in reply to Bongles • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to tmyakal • • •CoffeeJunkie
in reply to Bongles • • •NOPper
in reply to Bongles • • •Azal
in reply to Bongles • • •I left iphone because of a walled garden issue, was thinking about working with my parents off of iphone so I can actually assist with them because I've been off of it for decades.
Instead may be the other direction because at least iOS has a modicum of privacy by at least telling the US government to make their own back doors instead of just licking the boot like google does. I'm not a fan of apple by any stretch of the imagination, but at this point of the falling apart world fuck it, I gotta figure out what the least evil is, even if it's only marginal.
That Weird Vegan
in reply to Azal • • •Cochise
in reply to jystfact • • •YiddishMcSquidish
in reply to Cochise • • •Cait
in reply to Cochise • • •JadenSmith
in reply to Cochise • • •Whilst this is true, it's also a good reason to move to self hosting if possible.
I've been slowly removing my reliance on these ad filled services, even though the apks I use have ads removed, and this news just gives me more reason to ramp this up since these same APKs may no longer work without some trickery by 2027 (if they go with this plan).
Still, this all seems like constant patchwork as any and all effort is being taken to rid ourselves of control over our devices. It's an iffy situation and I just hope people smarter than myself will continue fighting, in some manner.
infinitesunrise
in reply to jystfact • • •How about we abandon proprietary locked-down launcher sandboxes on our phones and just run regular old Linux on them like we do on the desktop?
Isn't that what PostmarketOS is? Is there some bullshit firmware issue in the way of that? What exactly is stopping us?
drspawndisaster
in reply to infinitesunrise • • •infinitesunrise
in reply to drspawndisaster • • •MetalMachine
in reply to jystfact • • •Coopr8
in reply to jystfact • • •No one talking about how this could completely annihilate open source .apk development? First off the lead dev has to get identity verified to get a key, which will reduce the number of devs willing to push through friction to start a project. Then when the key is issued and it is posted to the repository, what keeps anyone from grabbing it and using it for another repo? We'll they have an official app registration of some kind, ok, what about version control? Does every new version have to be registered before it can be loaded and tested? Same for forks?
This is about to be a terrible mess, Google is assassinating FOSS with this.
InFerNo
in reply to Coopr8 • • •You distribute the code without your key and a built package that is signed. This isn't exactly rocket science.
Anyone who forks the code will have to use their own key to install a package they built.
It's just unnecessary red tape.
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kureta
in reply to InFerNo • • •Which will reduce the number of people using foss apks, which will in turn, reduce the motivation, and then the number, of foss apk developers.
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giant_smeeg
in reply to InFerNo • • •InFerNo
in reply to giant_smeeg • • •Fdroid itself and every package they host will have to be signed.
Maybe there are still workarounds, like enabling dev mode on your phone, but still tedious.
Awkwardparticle
in reply to Coopr8 • • •like this
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youmaynotknow
in reply to jystfact • • •Steve Dice
in reply to youmaynotknow • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to Steve Dice • • •lichtmetzger
in reply to jystfact • • •Google has been been cracking down on installing .apk's on your phone for years and they're getting more and more aggressive about it. It's not a question of if they'll disallow it completely, but when.
It's already extremely tedious. Back in the Android 2.3 days (oh, good old Gingerbread) you could just get an APK and install it, but those times are long gone.
Years ago they threatened the developer of Total Commander to remove his app from the PlayStore unless he patched out an APK install feature, so he was forced to do that.
Now another example: Try to install eBay on a phone that is not passing device integrity. It is not listed on the PlayStore because your device doesn't pass safety checks. You can grab an APK and install it, but the OS will check if the app has been installed through the PlayStore and if it hasn't, it will complain and close itself.
GrapheneOS has patched that bullshit out, btw.
And this behaviour happens with all apps where the developer has enabled the "App Integrity" option, which is heavily pushed as a super-great security feature. So developers might just enable that feature, not being fully aware of the implications.
As you can see, it's one method at a time, slowly but surely, until Google fully controls the ecosystem. The intention behind that is pretty clear: They don't want people to have AdAway and Revanced, they want money and user data. And they also want you to login to the PlayStore, get hooked on their stupid daily points challenges and spend your hard-earned money on virtual crap.
This is textbook enshittification, it will only get worse from here on.
GrapheneOS releases
GrapheneOSඞmir
in reply to lichtmetzger • • •lazynooblet
in reply to ඞmir • • •rumba
in reply to lazynooblet • • •ඞmir
in reply to lazynooblet • • •NotKyloRen
in reply to ඞmir • • •ඞmir
in reply to NotKyloRen • • •OminousOrange
in reply to lazynooblet • • •Rethink | Fast, secure, configurable, private DNS + Firewall for Android.
rethinkdns.comhumanoidchaos
in reply to lichtmetzger • • •tomenzgg
in reply to jystfact • • •I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: furilabs.com/
Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.
Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:
* clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-…
* news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1f…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j…
* theregister.com/2025/02/03/fur…
I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.
FuriPhone FLX1: A Debian-powered brick that puts GNOME in your back pocket
Liam Proven (The Register)xcjs
in reply to jystfact • • •Android developer verification requirements
Google Docsohshit604
in reply to xcjs • • •xcjs
in reply to ohshit604 • • •It's the official feedback form from developer.android.com/develope…
You didn't confirm anything.
Android developer console
Android Developersohshit604
in reply to xcjs • • •xcjs
in reply to ohshit604 • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to xcjs • • •orenj
in reply to jystfact • • •weirdo_from_space
in reply to orenj • • •Crozekiel
in reply to weirdo_from_space • • •From what I can tell most of the roadblock is drivers for hardware support. Basically every price of hardware has to have a reverse engineered driver to work. We need hardware mfrs on board to really gain traction in this arena.
Still, I'm pretty sure my next phone is going to be a Linux phone. I know I'll lose functionality but if I can make calls, send texts, and browse the web I'll get by. Hopefully that space keeps gaining traction and it won't be long until it is a truly viable option to replace google/apple products.
InFerNo
in reply to Crozekiel • • •mfed1122
in reply to weirdo_from_space • • •ubergeek
in reply to orenj • • •Yes, and its pretty great on devices you can install it on.
Problem is? Its not possible to install on most phones.
Tollana1234567
in reply to ubergeek • • •rumba
in reply to orenj • • •Postmarket OS is getting there. It only runs at all on a couple dozen older phones. And they don't currently have receive voice. But 2 months ago they didn't have 4G data or send voice so...
Oh, and battery life is not good.
My next mobile device will likely be a small tablet running Linux and a Wi-Fi hotspot.
humanoidchaos
in reply to rumba • • •rumba
in reply to humanoidchaos • • •Oh, the problem isn't the OS's. You can hardly get a phone that can have its bootloader unlocked these days.
When they stop providing security for our flagship phones, if we could just install lineage or GOS on it, they wouldn't get a new purchase out of us, and they'd also stop receiving all our data that they can sell..
Banzai51
in reply to jystfact • • •UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to Banzai51 • • •for the greater good
This good is gonna be so great after we lose everything to the worst of us.
Tollana1234567
in reply to Banzai51 • • •DegenerateSupreme
in reply to jystfact • • •displaced_city_mouse
in reply to DegenerateSupreme • • •This device looks really interesting, but I don't see anything on their site about how I can write software for Light Phone, or install anything except what they provide through their app.
How is that any different from what Google plans to do to Android?
BackYardIncendiary
in reply to jystfact • • •Evil_Shrubbery
in reply to BackYardIncendiary • • •\
We would have plenty of Linux phones if drivers were open sauce or even just available closed sauce.
melimosa
in reply to jystfact • • •ILikeBoobies
in reply to jystfact • • •How can that be legal?
Fuck.
A_Chilean_Cyborg
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •Evil_Shrubbery
in reply to jystfact • • •\
(lemmy.blahaj.zone/30883044)
MangioneDontMiss
in reply to jystfact • • •ghen
in reply to MangioneDontMiss • • •Drew
in reply to MangioneDontMiss • • •MangioneDontMiss
in reply to Drew • • •Draconic NEO
in reply to jystfact • • •LiveLM
in reply to jystfact • • •So Android is pointless now?
No, really. If I'm gonna be dragged kicking and screaming into the walled garden, why would I go with Google's joke of an ecosystem instead of much nicer and better integrated Apple garden?
I might as well start carrying one of those weird branded ultra-tiny laptops from AliExpress and some used, older iPhone for the 2 apps I need.
Fuck it. Throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub, the whole damn thing. Fuuuuck it.
Tollana1234567
in reply to LiveLM • • •myfunnyaccountname
in reply to Tollana1234567 • • •Tollana1234567
in reply to myfunnyaccountname • • •mub
in reply to jystfact • • •100_kg_90_de_belin
in reply to mub • • •Brunette6256
in reply to jystfact • • •cyrano
in reply to Brunette6256 • • •lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/20993…
cyrano
2025-08-26 14:39:25
eleitl
in reply to jystfact • • •Drew
in reply to jystfact • • •S_H_K
in reply to jystfact • • •sakuragasaki46
in reply to S_H_K • • •BudgetBandit
in reply to S_H_K • • •dontblink
in reply to jystfact • • •Can we still load custom roms? It's been a while since my last install of Lineage OS.
If that's not an option either, well, Linux phones I'm coming!
whalebiologist
in reply to jystfact • • •arararagi
in reply to whalebiologist • • •whalebiologist
in reply to arararagi • • •arararagi
in reply to jystfact • • •What will be the point of android?
Bronzebeard
in reply to jystfact • • •sakuragasaki46
in reply to jystfact • • •xav
in reply to sakuragasaki46 • • •CodingCarpenter
in reply to jystfact • • •SitD
in reply to CodingCarpenter • • •you can pack them on the magisk denylist and then they might work flawlessly.
this has never failed me but i would still not recommend it.
these banks and Google have no hesitation to cut your access to your money one day. they own your way of interacting with the web now and they don't like what you're attempting here
teyiko6366
in reply to jystfact • • •