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in reply to jystfact

If you’re technical enough to sideload Android apps, you’re probably technical enough to install Graphene too.
in reply to ReedReads

*if you have a Pixel device (that aren't that great, actually).
in reply to Engywook

If you can't have Graphene or Calyx (once they're back up) there's still /e/OS, they also got a 1-Click Installer for a few devices. As well as a how-to for several hundred. And iodeOS I guess.
in reply to Engywook

*if google /OEMs still provide drivers for AOSP (check calyxos blog, google stopped doing it and it is killing custom ROMS)
in reply to Engywook

I have no issue with my older Pixel devices. You're use-case isn't everyone's use-case.
in reply to Noxy

For the price, hardware-wise are underwhelming (see benchmarks).
in reply to Engywook

I daily drive a Pixel 8 Pro and it's never felt underpowered to me. I have no need or desire to look at benchmarks.

It's a fair point to make to say they're expensive, but that's not really relevant to their actual quality or performance, both of which are fine. And the used market seems pretty good for these things, too.

in reply to Engywook

A pixel phone is something like 9 months of minimum wage in my country.
in reply to ReedReads

If google is gonna ban sideloading, surely they will lock their bootloaders first.
in reply to DeathByBigSad

Leaving in the bootloader unlock gives people who want to retain sideloading a place to retreat to that google still ultimately controls. Which is more appealing to a sociopathic corporation than cutting people off entirely
in reply to DeathByBigSad

I see it this way.

Google wants everyone using gapps to be identified but isn't outright saying you can't use Android without certification.

"Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device"

So LOS and Graphene may get off the hook on this and be able to install whatever non-google apps they need. By default, neither have google services.

Sucks for the gapps people, but, I mean. They knew it was coming, right?

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in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge

But the point is, manufacturers will comply because otherwise their phones won't sell.
in reply to DeathByBigSad

Looks to me like they've been complying for 20 years or so. No real change needed on their part.
in reply to ReedReads

If you have a compatible phone. As long as the allow those compatible phones to be made.
in reply to ReedReads

Sidelading apps on android is never technical anyone could install an apk. It's just the safety that you need to be technical when doing so. Also fuck my phone which doesn't allow unlockibg bootloader
in reply to mexicancartel

At least on Samsung phones, they used to have you open the Settings (this is enough to deter 50% of non technical users) and look for an allow button which is protected by two fullscreen danger warnings (there goes the other 50%)
in reply to Arcane2077

Mine is vivo, and there is no known way of safely unlocking bootloader
in reply to zipzoopaboop

All my homies know how to install apks. Almost nobody knows to install custom roms, let alone the phone having ability to install so
in reply to jystfact

Wait, what the hell?

I can't believe this, who the hell are they to decide what I should install?

They are welcome to curate their own store, but sideloading concerns only the user.

Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.

Fucking corrupt American oligarchs.

in reply to J-Bone

Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.


This is very similar to the notarization process Apple introduced to comply with the EU requirement of allowing third-party stores, and yet the EU doesn't seem concerned (maybe because Apple did not allow third-party stores in the first place, will it be different for Google?)

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in reply to BlackEco

Not an Apple user, so I didn't know about this. Extremely disappointing.

It really does seem avoiding any and all American services/products (to the extent possible, with exceptions where reasonable) is the only way forward.

I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the US is a ethical, cultural and even economic dead end. Yes even economic, only a fool would believe intense corruption and broad support of criminality and corruption among the population will not have any negative effects in the future.

in reply to J-Bone

You think this wouldn't happen elsewhere?

It's not just an American thing, it's an asshoke thing, and those people are everywhere, and will always find a way.

in reply to Onomatopoeia

Of course it can happen elsewhere.

Just US has a massive influence on tech platforms, and they are currently under-going an oligarch takeover (oligarch influence was already bad irrespective of whether the far right or centre right was in power).

Mind you I am not anti-American. I have largely always defended the US as a matter of pragmatism (it is the largest and most influential democracy-leaning country with a measure of respect for human right). US has done really bad things, but they have done good things as well. I can't say the same about say China or Russia.

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in reply to Onomatopoeia

even the OP phone is considering doing a soft-blocking of bootloader
in reply to J-Bone

Yes the largest economy in the world is an economic dead end. Do you know why so many countries are sucking off Trump? They want access to American dollars. And no diversification doesn't work because what do you replace America with, there isn't some untapped multi trillion dollar economy just sitting there. It sucks and I don't get why the world let it happen but it is where we are and it we'll hurt to change it and nobody seems like they want to do the work.
in reply to Auli

us has made every country dependant on it, which is why the brics was created o offeset it, but it isnt doing really good right now.
in reply to Auli

I clarified what I meant by economic dead end. It's not going to happen tomorrow or even in ten years. But absolute corruption, rollback of democracy and a population where a large number of people support crime and corruption will have a caustic effect in the long term. It's a straw man to suggest that I was claiming an immense collapse in American economic might.

At one point the "sun never set on the British empire" and now the British empire is no more. There are also examples of economies that were once top end, but are now closer to middle income.

I don't think you understand the extent to which American "soft power" is being eroded right now. What countries have you lived in? What languages other than English do you speak? Do you have close friends in other countries?

Of course America is major economy, that doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just look at the state of Chinese products in the early 2000s and where they are now.

People don't like thugs and liars, especially ones who are constantly parroting polemics about "freedom for this and that" while engaging in criminality and opposing democracy.

in reply to J-Bone

The EU can't even distribute their own apps without Play Integrity. Seems unlikely they will care.
in reply to jystfact

As Samsung is blocking custom ROMs with OneUI 8, I seriously need to look into alternatives. Does anyone have good experience with a custom ROM on a S25 Ultra? The only thing I really worry about are my banking apps. I need those to work.
in reply to red_bull_of_juarez

I use /e/OS, my office mate uses Graphene. All our banking apps (I have like 3, lol) work flawlessly. However, once you go down this road, there is always a chance that they stop working in the future, as Google introduces more bullshit like this or Play Integrity.
in reply to skarn

Just use apps like Hermit or Native Alpha and use the banking website like an app.
in reply to skarn

people might have to considered a stock android just to use the bank apps on a cheap phone, and one for personal use.
in reply to red_bull_of_juarez

I just use my banking through the web UI. Why do you need an app for it? If it's for check deposits, try using an old phone as a dedicated banking device.

If you don't use apps that depend on Google services, consider deGoogling your phone.

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in reply to Default Username

true too, i use my banking app mostly on the PC anyways, because i can just block thier ability with adblockers, tracking,,,etc.
in reply to jystfact

Its 2050, you are waiting outside of the HR Office waiting for them to talk to you. You're certain that your job has just been replaced by a robot.

Fuck this shit, you thought, 90% of the people are unemployed anyways, fuck this 16 hour shift.

You pull out your hand terminal (yes a "hand terminal", as "smartphones" no longer have local storage now, almost all computing is done on cloud) and start typing in your journal app: "Down with the regime, Down with tyranny!". You tap "save".

"Action not authorized. This incident has been reported"

2 seconds later, you can hear sirens in the distance growing louder and louder.

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in reply to DeathByBigSad

This gas no basis in reality. No way that society makes it to 2050.
in reply to TipsyMcGee

The ultra wealthy are building bunkers. Preserving any form of society no longer interests them.
in reply to HarkMahlberg

they wont be able to sustain it, without the 'worker" slaves turning on them, what more likely to happen is they live in the pristine cities while everyone else not part of that circle is in the slums outside the city.
in reply to DeathByBigSad

it will be worst, since most people wont have jobs, and are outside the cities in SLUMS. think ds9 2024 episode, or 4400 show.
in reply to jystfact

Surely that means they'll allow more apps onto their own app store with that, right? Right?
in reply to jystfact

Google says it's no different than checking IDs at the airport


What, and Google is now the TSA? Fuck that shit. I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!

in reply to DebatableRaccoon

I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!


You bought a phone but is leasing the software. It's not yours to do with as you please.

Have you considered using fully open source android versions?

in reply to DrDystopia

Open source Android is a thing??? TIL that might be my solution to this long term since I sideload apps regularly.
in reply to Panini

Search for your device name and "custom ROM" to see what's out there. Some are completely Google free, others retain different levels of Google play support, including downloading existing purchases.
in reply to Panini

Just be mindful of what ROM you're putting on your device. That ROM can still have access to everything you have on there so it should be a source you trust.
in reply to DrDystopia

The few options that exist (along with their negatives) can't be installed on my phone. N20U is still pretty much locked down.
in reply to ColeSloth

Then do what I do when buying your next phone, find a custom ROM you like, check their "comparability" page, find devices that are fully compatible, preferably officially supported (community build usually work fine as well) and use that as a shopping list when browsing for phones.
in reply to DrDystopia

No custom ROM on a recent smartphone technically gives you a fully open source Android system when they rely on vendor-provided proprietary blobs in order for basic hardware functionality to work at all. Unless you want to go without a modem, GPS, and likely more depending on your model, at which point it's functionally no longer a smartphone.

Open-source custom ROMs are at least far more open-source than the alternative in most of the ways that matter most, including the ability to change the code in order to remove app installation restrictions, to avoid Google's telemetry, etc.

in reply to zarenki

Would the proprietary blobs in the baseband hardware stop the end user from installing software, which is the topic of concern?

If no, is this a irrelevant "achtually"-reply?

in reply to DrDystopia

I'd argue it's worth knowing what you risk losing from your device in the name of sideloading software so it's not irrelevant to point out your phone might not be a phone by the end of the procedure.
in reply to DebatableRaccoon

Okay, let’s check ids wherever you leave the house, since that’s the sane as checking them at the airport.

Papers please, right?

in reply to panda_abyss

google likely has that data already, use any of thier apps, they got it, searching on google, taking pictures, emails.
in reply to panda_abyss

I'd argue those aren't the same. ID is checked at the airport for legal entry into another country and the security is on both sides. A lot of countries don't require people to carry or present ID while walking around in their own country short of a crime having been committed.
in reply to DebatableRaccoon

google is pretty aggressively trying to datamine people for a while, Reddit is thier playgound.
in reply to Tollana1234567

I can't say anything for the Reddit part of what you said but I agree with Google's unethical datamining. It's no secret what Google has been doing. I remember when the tinfoil-hat-wearers were warning people about those nifty little Google speakers people were generously inviting into their homes, telling them to watch what they were saying in the general vicinity of the speakers, that Google could be using them to listen to every conversation. The naysayers said "They wouldn't do that, that'd be illegal. The speaker only listens when I say 'Hey Google' and they wouldn't be saving what I say anyway!". Lo and behold, it finally got leaked that was wrong, that the speakers were listening 24/7 and Google was keeping everything. I could be wrong but I recall something going around that Google even admitted they were keeping the recordings. Suddenly the conversation died down, there was no lawsuit for espionage or any such thing and the naysayers suddenly converted to "I've got nothing to hide, I don't care if I'm being recorded". Ignorance remains forever blissful, it would seem.

Quick note for the pedantic: No, it's not just Google. Amazon, Apple and Microsoft are doing it too. If there's a microphone in your house, be mindful of what you're saying around it; you never know how an innocuous conversation might be used against you.

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in reply to jystfact

fuck google!

Who can I donate to that is working on making alternative OS accessible on android or iphones?

I know there are alternative OS already out there but they aren't as universally accessible compared to how Linux can run on any PC.

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in reply to Twoafros

Problem is we need vendor like pinephone maybe fairphone,which will able to run give us freedom what to run on device hunting and seeking for vendor which allowing to unlock bootloader and then install custom os it sleepery slope because it's not know how longer they will let to do it
in reply to anon5621

If they lock bootloaders, whats the best way to force it work even the vendors don't want it to?
in reply to Twoafros

None,we fucked up.that why I don't wanna non arm non RISC currently see on desktop
in reply to Twoafros

The only way to bypass a forced bootloader lock is to find a bootrom exploit. It's basically like jailbreaking an iPhone or a console at that point.

Note, the iPhone hasn't had a working jailbreak in years. Samsung phones in the US also haven't been able to be unlocked in years.

Android would be even harder because of how fragmented the market is. There are many different phones from many different manufacturers.

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in reply to Twoafros

I was wondering this awhile ago too. There are ways but it's pretty hardcore stuff from what I can tell. It's basically a lost cause at that point. Some solutions involve using $30,000+ laser machines to manipulate the hardware physically and cause glitches in the locking. But even then the devices have self-destruct mechanisms to detect tampering. Not like the phone explodes, but they self-destruct the cryptographic keys needed to unlock the bootloader, and then you're stuck trying to brute force in by guessing keys, which most likely will take literally a million years.
in reply to mfed1122

thats pretty aggressive to unlock it, i dont think non-tech saavy people will go for it.
in reply to anon5621

i have the OP just incase, but im hearing they want to soft-lockdown it too. is fairphone even available outside the EU? in the us.
in reply to Twoafros

PostmarketOS is the biggest player. UBPorts (formerly Ubuntu Phone) is another. And of course there are lots of projects like Plasma Mobile, Nemo, or Mobian.
in reply to jystfact

So looks like graphene is the future. Away from android and iOS. Any other alternatives OS and phone to look at?
in reply to cyrano

lineageos does support far more phone vendors; who knows what pixel phones will be like in the future

I'm hoping on fairphone to get graphene support 🤷

in reply to Cassa

They won't get GrapheneOS support becuase they don't meet the hardware requirements: grapheneos.org/faq#device-supp…
They are actually very far removed from meeting them, compared to OEMs like Samsung.
in reply to cyrano

Isn't graphene having a challenging future because they have vendor locked themselves into pixel phones and said vendor is pulling the rug by not providing drivers going forward?
in reply to Lichtblitz

GrapheneOS has largely worked around this by automating creating device support themselves using "adevtool". The current Pixels' hardware supports installing third-party OSes and will continue to do so, they will support those Pixels until EOL. For future Pixels (Pixel 10 series has not yet launched, only available for pre-order), it remains to be seen whether they still fully support installing third-party OSes. If they do, GrapheneOS will also support them, but it might take much longer to implement device support because they need to make this by themselves and this is more difficult doing it from scratch than being able to use the old Android device support for it as a base, like they could do for the existing devices when Google did their rugpull.

They have not really vendor locked themselves for the future. They have hardware requirements listed in their FAQ: grapheneos.org/faq#device-supp…
Google just happened to be the only company meeting those requirements, which weren't even that strict, becuase other OEMs just didn't prioritize security.

But, there is good news. GrapheneOS is currently in active talks with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them meet the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.

in reply to tranquil_cassowary

Google just happened to be the only company meeting those requirements


I don't know. They designed the requirements in a way that only Google met them. It didn't "happen" to meet them after the fact.

It's like demanding yellow hard hats on a construction site. Sure, they are safe and highly visible. Would it make sense to allow black hard hats as well if it means not locking into a single vendor and try pushing for high vis while having a stronger base? And also working around the issue with a vest? I don't know the answer to that but it's clear that they have made a conscious decision to move into the situation that they now find themselves in.

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in reply to Lichtblitz

They are literally talking with a major OEM right now to help them meet their requirements so what you say does not make any sense. They aren't purposefully making requirements so only Pixels would fit them. The current hardware ecosystem is just bad with regard to security. Many GrapheneOS features depend on certain hardware security features being present, if they would also support lesser secure deivces, they would have to rip out too many fundamental features of GrapheneOS. That would go against the purpose of GrapheneOS, which is delivering a secure, private and usability mobile OS.
in reply to tranquil_cassowary

I didn't say they need to rip something out. I didn't say their current efforts to open up weren't valid.
I specifically said that I don't know whether it would have made sense to start with reduced requirements.

I just stated that they didn't "happen" to only support Google. I simply acknowledged how they knew exactly that the standard they were writing would only be matched by one vendor as they were writing it.

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in reply to Lichtblitz

They were written at some moment in time and major vendors often have multiple moments during the year when they release new phones. Even if GrapheneOS, while writing down the requirements, realized that only 1 brand met them at that time, they were still assuming and hoping other brands could also easily meet them in the time following. The main problem here was that other brands didn't seem to care. After hardware memory tagging was added to the ARM platform and Pixels immediatelly adopted this, GrapheneOS added it to the requirements, because it was such a subsantial feature that could outrule a large number of vulnerabilities. But, they have communicated multiple times across social media that they were willing to be much less strict about that requirement because earlier phones also didn't have to meet them and because Qualcomm didn't add ARM yet to their SoCs. They said back then they would be willing to support a Samsung phone if it would meet everything except for memory tagging (the main problem for Samsung is lack of proper third-party OS support). So, I think they've tried their best, to be honest. The current talks with the OEM I was talking abour earlier, also aren't the first time they do those efforts. They've had contact with OEMs in the past to try to push them towards meeting the requirements, but the efforts happened to fail. The negligence of other brands is just really that big. In the tech space, sadly, only Apple and Google seem to truly care about security, spending money on it, and hiring sufficiently large teams of security researchers. I really hope, together with you, that this will change 🙏 .
in reply to tranquil_cassowary

I agree, the ecosystem seems to be focusing too much on hype and not enough on a strong and secure foundation. I'm still hoping for the best but I feel must more hopeful towards Linux on mobile devices. They are moving at an excruciatingly slow pace, though. Not enough resources and hands.
in reply to Lichtblitz

Would be nice to have secure SoCs in phones that cut costs with regards to camera and screen, but there is not a market for it I guess because people think they don't care about security. Android is Linux of course since the Android kernel is a Linux kernel. I'm aware you are probablly referring to using traditional Linux OSes that are typically used on desktops on mobile phones. That would, however, be a significant regression for security. Android and iOS are both modern mobile OSes with an in-depth security model which includes a mandatory app sandbox with a sane permission model. This is not present on traditional desktop OSes. This is not meant to diss on those OSes, they are just children of their time, they were created much earlier, security practices have evolved. I can see why it would be a fun experience though to tinker with, it would just not be a secure experience and it's unlikely to get there because the improvements in traditional Linux distros go much slower than they go on Android and Android is already massively ahead.
in reply to cyrano

Graphene is also based on AOSP, which Google makes worse on purpose. I don't think they'll allow other devices to exist forever, or rather not in a way that's compatible with "real" Android (aka Google-infested).
The only proper solution is to focus fully on the new Linux Mobile ecosystem and become independent from Google-maintained shit (and hardware - Graphene is based on Google Pixels, they literally exist at the mercy of Google). Otherwise they will fuck you over again and again. Not saying getting Linux Mobile on par will be easy, but it's our only true, permanent option aside from rejecting smartphones altogether.
in reply to cyrano

Now I'm wondering if Harmony OS is going to break out of China.
in reply to cyrano

Graphene is locked to google hardware, so google effectively holds the keys to graphene too
in reply to traceur201

Only because Graphene is about using a security chip.

Lineage isn't, so runs on more devices. I'd argue most people don't have risks that require the security of Graphene.

But the moment another phone manufacturer decides to use a similar security chip, Graphene will be on it.

in reply to traceur201

I understand what you mean, as in GrapheneOS is a bit dependent on Google right now allowing third-party OS support. But, you have used words which actually mean something different in the software world. Keys often refers to signing keys for software and it's important to note that Google doesn't control those keys for GrapheneOS at all. GrapheneOS owns the keys, and signs all of their builds locally.
in reply to dragon-donkey3374

And that's the biggest issue. Every hoddam thing in tech is American.
in reply to Auli

We really need some global competition in tech. It's the main reason why I'm rooting for China when I read that they're developing new consumer tech. Bring some damn competition and hopefully these American tech companies will learn to stop enshitifying their products.
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in reply to dragon-donkey3374

Chinese version of YouTube (bilibili (B站)) has built in sleep timer functionality.

That beats the hell out of the adverts and autoplay rubbish YouTube subjects people not using Invidious or Piped to.

in reply to jystfact

“ but android is open source! You can do whatever you want with it!”

A 20 year-old lie, and I’m glad to see the android worshipers finally realize it was always a load of shit.

You can complain about iOS all you like, but android is no better. It’s about time people started to realize that.

in reply to floo

I just upvoted a comment which is sure to get downvoted to hell.

You’re right though, the idea that you could “do whatever you want” with android was always a fantasy.

Me right now:

in reply to baggachipz

Can I install an independently compiled version of iOS an an iPhone, equivalent to Lineage or Graphene?

I'm currently running a fork of Lineage called DivestOS. That's 3 more versions of OS than available for iOS.

Stop acting like they're the same, because they're not. I use iOS for my work devices, and have since 2010.1 my personal devices are Android, because iOS won't allow me to do things as simple as move files the way I need to.

in reply to Onomatopoeia

Watch out, we got a badass over here!

Sounds to me like you’re not using android, and this your condescending rhetorical question does not apply. Sure, you can put forks of forks on your device, but good luck running banking or travel or healthcare apps, among many others.

in reply to floo

I guess all these years of using apps from outside the Play Store and apps I've written myself have been an illusion.
in reply to TheAgeOfSuperboredom

You can write your own iOS app and install it on your phone. You just can’t distribute it without paying the troll toll.
in reply to baggachipz

I'm not a developer, but I want to use apps that aren't available on the official store.
in reply to floo

There's a world of difference between iOS and Android.

Just look at Lineage and Graphene. Both independently compiled versions of Android. Show me the equivalent in iOS.

in reply to jystfact

Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device.


Any chance you can just remove their shit via adb?

in reply to Mika

Also, does it affect installs via adb? Obtainium + Shizuku can be a way forward.
in reply to jystfact

Looks like I'm gonna just carry a stock phone, give it nothing but the most basic information and tether it to a laptop over a VPN. They stop tethering? I'll use VOIP and a hotspot.

Welcome back to 2011. Maybe messenger bags will come back into fashion in foss culture.

in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge

Run Lineage on your phone of choice.

Or if you're paranoid, a Pixel with Graphene.

in reply to Onomatopoeia

...What about after September 2026?

Well, there's one teensy tiny caveat.

Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device.

So, in theory... no gapps, no approval necessary?

Open devs just have to have two versions, as many already do, one signed with Google's spyware and one on github/fdroid with nothing.

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in reply to eva

Seems about right, for as long as they can.

I'd even consider the possibility of "google-free" phones showing up on kickstarter in two or three years for the tinkerer market. That market exists. Raspberrypi didn't buy itself. We are here!

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in reply to jystfact

golly gee whiz it sure looks like I'm finally getting around to getting off the stock android on my Pixel, I've been lazy and dragging my feet for some time. Thanks, Google, this is just the kick in the pants I needed!
in reply to jystfact

As an iPhone guy, I always thought, what apps am I missing? It was mostly emulators. Then Apple allowed them, and I ask the question again.

Oh yeah, we have Delta, why doesn't Android have anything like that? So, in a nutshell, I can uninstall Delta right now. App gone, games gone, saves gone, it's all gone. No longer have any trace of it on my iPhone. Go to the App Store and download it. Empty library. Got to start over, right? Wrong. Go into Settings, connect Google Drive. It's now downloading my games, my saves, my settings. Everything back where I was. Would be so cool if it were on all the platforms, so a game started on one could be picked up and played on another. Not necessarily Android <==> iOS, but more like phone <==> computer/tablet.

Yeah, so anyway, what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?

I get it's a slippery slope and future implications. I get that. I'm just not seeing the issue now.

Also, it seems like Google has taken away all the things that would convince you not to get an iPhone. They took your headphone jack (though an Android was the first to do so). They took your microSD card slot. The tech always sucked, no one tried to make it better; past 16 or maybe 32GB the write speeds were too low to be usable. Now they're coming for your sideloading? Honestly what is the argument for staying?

in reply to cerebralhawks

what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?


For me, it's an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone, but I try to get whatever I can from F-Droid. On other devices like my TV, tablet and e-reader, I'm not even logged in and use F-Droid and the Aurora Store instead. Not having to rely on Google is great.

Honestly what is the argument for staying?


There are still Android phones with headphone jacks

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in reply to ReluctantZen

it's an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone


Uh.

in reply to Onomatopoeia

Not a bad suggestion, but I'm not sure that'd work. Online payments are tightly integrated with the banks apps here.
I can try it though
in reply to ReluctantZen

Yes, my Android phone (Galaxy S10) has a headphone jack and a microSD card reader and a fingerprint reader. And it's a flaghship. But it's a 2019 flagship. (Still does things better than my iPhone 16 Pro Max, which is Apple's flagship from last year, and still their current flagship model. Most notably, the Android keyboard is better.)

Do any new flagship Android phones have headphone jacks? Not that I need one. I'm 100% on board with AirPods. Love them. I own headphones but it's a lesser experience. I have some decent (not great) over the ear Sennheisers (they were around $50, so not audiophile range, probably the brand's entry model) and they're good enough, but the AirPods are a better experience in many ways. But anyway, mid-range Android phones have headphone jacks, but they're underpowered compared to flagships, and Android flagships are underpowered next to iPhones of the same year. So while granted, a mid-range 2025 Android likely outperforms my S10 across the board, I have no reason to upgrade what is essentially my backup phone.

in reply to cerebralhawks

Do any new flagship Android phones have headphone jacks?


Less and less. Sony still does and Asus still does on their ROG Phones, but dropped it for the Zenfone 12 so not sure how long they'll last with it still (I love my Zenfone 9, so a bit sad about it).

But anyway, mid-range Android phones have headphone jack


Shockingly little nowadays. If I search between 300-500 euro, I can only find Sony, Poco and two Samsungs (A25 and Xcover 7).

in reply to cerebralhawks

I ended up with an iPhone due to their music making ecosystem being quite robust with several third party plugins available and an audio engine that Android is still dreaming of and have not missed anything from Android. Now there really doesn’t seem to be much of a difference other than feeling way more secure on my iPhone. I love that they vet app developers so hard so I don’t end up with some horrid app on my phone
in reply to Marshezezz

Not actually true, there are still some scam apps on the App Store. As long as they have recurring subscriptions, Apple doesn't care too much. It's the free apps that are just as good, they will bury, even if they have users.

As far as music, I agree. I use Apple Music because it's the best streaming service for my needs and they pay artists better than the other big one. But on iOS you also have Marvis Pro and MusicHarbor. I couldn't get that experience on Android. The actual Apple Music app is great on Android, and it has gotten better, but on iOS I still prefer Marvis, which is a frontend to Music.app.

in reply to cerebralhawks

Yeah, so anyway, what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?


When I upgraded my Samsung to a OnePlus13, Samsung's app that manages the tag device flat out had an error message telling me that it could only work on Samsung phones. 5 minutes later I found an open source app allowed me to use the Galaxy tag that I paid for on my new phone. Samsung has some of the best engineers in the world so they were 100% lying or intentionally trying to brick my tag device to either force me to buy their overpriced phones...

And that is just one example. I use tons of open source apps. For almost any useful app you can think of, there is a free open source version. Premium-YouTube? Newpipe is ad-free with all the premium features for free.

in reply to cerebralhawks

what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?


On the Android world, there are various Firefox forks with privacy enhancements. Such an example is IronFox. These apps are not listed on Play Store, and are, instead, distributed through F-Droid.

Besides this, there is a big difference between the policies of Play Store and F-Droid. Play Store takes your compiled blob, runs some security tests, signs it and publishes it. F-Droid, on the other hand, requires that all the source code is public and compiles the app.

This allows the users to be sure that the apps cannot be tampered by their developers. While, on Play Store, devs can easily submit applications that aren't built based on the published source code.

in reply to cerebralhawks

what can't I get in the Play store that I actually want


Well, for starters, versions of apps without Google play store tracking. Or without GMS/Firebase so the apps aren't constantly being awakened whenever someone else decides.

Or old apps that Google has decided you don't need anymore because they "won't run" on current versions of Android, yet work fine.

Or, any app category that Google doesn't permit you to publish to play, like my system wide ad blockers.

Or apps that aren't malware, since Play store is the single greatest source of malware.

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in reply to Onomatopoeia

AdAway isn't in the Play Store? That was my ad blocker back in the day... on, like, Jellybean and KitKat.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Google has since banned ad blockers. They threaten their business model after all.

in reply to jystfact

If Android sideloading needs to be verified by googld for "Security" then Maybe IOS seems like a viable option (except for the price and price to repair) but man i wish Linux on smartphones Has a good ecosystem of apps.
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in reply to Mwa

iOS is still worse, because you're then confined to whatever is in the App Store, which Apple take a 30% cut of.
in reply to jystfact

I wonder if these new developments will affect my android box and more important my future phone which will most likely run /e/ os
in reply to jystfact

So I guess my next phone will be a Chinese phone. Even if it spies on me, I'll have the freedom to install whatever I want from anywhere.

The Chinese have a golden window of opportunity. Let's hope they don't mess this up.

in reply to Balldowern

I am very happy with my One Plus 13 phone. It has better hardware and was at a better price than Samsung's S25.
in reply to Sauerkraut

Samsung used to be good. I used to always buy samsung but since I can't affort a "high end" device, I go with the medium end ones, and samsung medium end ones are terrible for the price. So instead of getting a medium end samsung, you can get something better and cheaper on another brand
in reply to Fijxu

Samsung always seems to have the paradigm of good hardware with shitty software, and with their recent phones they seem to manage to enshittify both.
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in reply to Balldowern

LOL. Chinese phones are way worse, they simply block installations of "unsanctioned" apps with no workaround.

My wife is Chinese and I used to live there for 7 years, it's an absolute privacy nightmare.

in reply to Eyck_of_denesle

Apart from Xiaomi and OnePlus, which are released for international audiences, I'm not aware of a single Chinese phone with active rom development.
in reply to Balldowern

Oppo = OnePlus

Huawei bootlaoders can't be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.

Honor bootlaoders can't be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.

Poco seems possible for now, never used one of their phones, but well good that there's something possible.

in reply to viking

So many people don't understand this at all. China is still the same as when the tanks were rolling over college students.
in reply to viking

If you dont want to put a custom rom on it (which is becoming increasingly difficult), you're can buy a HK version off taobao.
in reply to viking

I have a Xiaomi 14 pro, I just have to tap the correct button to install an outside app. (It's in Chinese, even though the phone is set to English, so i have no idea what it says but it gets me there).
in reply to Bongles

If you bought it outside of China that might be a thing, for Chinese phones it shows a cancel button only. There is a confirm button, but it's greyed out and not clickable.
in reply to viking

So I bought it from giztop, they take the Chinese version of the phone, get the Google play store on there and get it set to English, plus a couple other things, so that it's easier for you to get started with. I bought this because I had thought they'd make a global version and I could flash that rom when that happened, and only deal with some Chinese sections of the phone for a short while, but for some reason they didn't with this specific phone, they did for the 14 ultra.

I busted the phone out again to see the popup I was talking about, but actually one of the (semi) recent updates made it so the buttons are english. I am allowed to just install things with a few pop-up warnings and the phone does some kind of check. I wonder if it's because it's an "unlocked" phone (I don't know if it's the same in China where a carrier locks the phone to their network and has their own shit installed if you buy it from them) or what.

Either way, interesting.

in reply to viking

As someone who uses a Xiaomi phone, that's not true.

It was a faff getting it to install any random apk I found of off the Internet, but it was possible. Did involve holding down a graphic for 10 seconds as part of the unlock procedure.

But for now at least, you can still install any unsigned apk without going through a store.

in reply to Balldowern

I guess if GrapheneOS finally gets spoken to by a manufacturer interested in filling this market gap, that would be awesome too.

Hell, maybe it could be a chinese manufacturer.

in reply to Truscape

GrapheneOS is currently actively talking to a major Android OEM in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. If that succeeds GrapheneOS will be able to run on non-Pixel devices.
in reply to mnemonicmonkeys

Timewindow 2026, perhaps 2027 for release of such devices. Talks have been going on for a few months, if it wasn't working out at all that probably should've been clear already.
in reply to Balldowern

So you either need to put a custom/global rom on it, get the hk version, or pay like 20% more for a global version.
in reply to Alcoholicorn

Bonus problems, AT&T in the US kicked off the international phone versions a while back. They worked fine. I have a bunch of leftover G4 international versions that they up and banned one day around 2020. The terrible US version remained allowed.
in reply to jystfact

I believe disabling play protect turns this off

Edit: no it doesn't. This is play integrity API which can't be disabled and will be in the APK itself.... hopefully it can be patched out

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in reply to jystfact

only malware i have read about on android have came from google's oh so safe store.
in reply to jystfact

For the benefit of those reacting based on the headline and one-sentence summary, yes it's a pain, I agree with the mob that it should be the user's choice what they install, BUT, the headline is badly written, in that it implies that the app itself has to be verified, and also many commenters seem to have also inferred that it means an Apple walled-garden style Play Store lock-in which also isn't the case. (a better headline might have been "sideloading of Android apps from unverified publishers")

You can still publish and run apps from outside of the Play Store, but publishers will need to get a verified key from Google to sign them with. Google don't have any visibility of what the app actually is, they just issue you a key and you do whatever you want with it.

(EDIT: fuck me, don't shoot the messenger, just because you don't like what Google is doing. I even opened by saying I agreed that the user should be able to choose, knowing full well that the sort of person who doesn't read past the headline also would interpret correcting it as a defense of Google... guess I'd have been better off just quietly leaving y'all to get angry over things that didn't actually happen)

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in reply to dysprosium

Then they controll who gets a key and if you sign something that's isn't OK with them - revocation
in reply to skisnow

All Google would have to do is check what key an app is using on a user's device and they can invalidate it. Someone made a youtube vanced 2 (not revanced)? Google can easily invalidate it for everyone using this process.

Even if I misunderstand how the key works and it's more of a signature, it would mean that if you try to download an older app then it could fail bc the signature expired and isn't maintained anymore. You also run into the same issue with not being renewed if Google chooses.

My point is it could effectively be a side loading killer, maybe not right away but the point of sideloading is the independence which this takes away

in reply to skisnow

Agreed on the headline, but having to ID yourself as a developer to Google even if you're not using the Play Store is fucked too. It's a big step towards a walled garden.
in reply to skisnow

i'm sure google will be happy to verify and hand a key out to revanced or aurora store.
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in reply to skisnow

Any developer of piracy or emulation related software will not apply for the registration, because the trail will point to they official identity, opening a flank to legal actions. This will kill piracy in Android.
in reply to jystfact

Google can get fucked. I feel like there will be a nontrivial market for de-googled or older and unlocked Android phones after this. If they manage to kill off custom roms with their previous AOSP rug pull I'll go back to using a (subpar) Linux phone or maybe even one of those cheap flip phones.
in reply to zod000

I started joking that my next phone will be a Nokia 3310. I feel more and more each day like that should just be my actual next phone
in reply to mushroommunk

There's more and more people who feel just like you do. I'm so exhausted of all these companies being predatory and anti consumer. I'm the type to stand my ground and abstain or find alternatives, but it feels like there's 5 people who don't care and 4 people who will just let it go for every person willing to boycott bullshit.
in reply to fishy

Yes there are dozens of people who care. The vast majority of people never sideload.
in reply to Auli

I'm making a statement about companies in general. People are just so willing to bend over and take it. In my mind people used to have more gumption, but I'm probably overestimating how much was individuals vs how the media portrayed things.

Feels like if Upton Sinclair released "the jungle" today we'd all collectively say "oh well, guess we're eating rats and formaldehyde."

in reply to mushroommunk

Funny enough, Nokia started making cheap flip phones and some others in that form factor again. My daughter asked to replace her smartphone with one of the flip phones. It was only $70, so I got her one. It's build quality is what you would expect, but it works and has GPS at least.
in reply to zod000

They even actually re-released a version of the 3310 a few years back. I still have my old Garmin knocking about, wonder if it's got updated maps if I got a model without GPS.
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in reply to mushroommunk

It even runs WhatsApp and Signal now, or at least, that was the plan a while back. And it's only like 60 euros or something. Perfect for multiple day festivals and camping trips at least.
in reply to TigerAce

It no longer runs WhatsApp, actually. The new version of the OS (KaiOS which is a fork of the dead Firefox OS) broke compatibility and Meta apparently decided to not bother with supporting it.
in reply to TigerAce

Which model is that exactly? I'd love a "dumb" phone with Signal.
in reply to eva

I'm confused. I read an article about the new 3310 getting the ability to install apps, a long time ago. I found an article on how to do so, but it doesn't look like the 3310 screen in the screenshots but a general android OS. I thought it had a simplified OS, either their own or a stripped down android (unsure) as it has a tiny screen.

It's the Nokia 3310 4G model according to this article. But it might be a generic article in which they have the phone model automatically generated by the one you search for?

in reply to mushroommunk

In case you're curious, the Nokia flip phone I got my daughter is the Nokia 2780 Flip.
in reply to zod000

Don't worry we can just install Graphene OS on Pixel phones, there is no problem with my plan !
in reply to interdimensionalmeme

feels funny that you have to buy a phone from google to get around google's actions...
in reply to xistera

I'm sure it's just a fortuitous coincidence and nothing to be worried about
in reply to jystfact

If you have a non-Google build of Android on your phone, none of this applies. However, that's a vanishingly small fraction of the Android ecosystem outside of China.


Linux-based Android build when?

in reply to samus12345

Android is already based on Linux. But in general there are FOSS phone OS's. GrapheneOS being the dominant player
in reply to mushroommunk

needs to be a full linux based and controlled os base though since graphene is most likely dead in the water as more phone manufacturers make it impossible to unlock the bootloaders.
in reply to mushroommunk

If the dominant player is an OS that supports a total of seven phones, the entirety of which are strictly Google branded, were fuckin' doomed.
in reply to Ganbat

LineageOS is bigger than Graphene. It's just not automatically deGoogled.
in reply to jystfact

The current trends and direction of tech is making me want to become Amish...

I'm getting so fucking sick of everything turning into shit, what's even the point of fucking point anymore? This is borderline kernel level enshitification

in reply to zebidiah

The Amish that I grew up near were big into shunning, child marriage, sexual abuse, not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.

I'm just saying it might be easier to switch to open source or something.

in reply to VitoRobles

not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.


TIL I'm 2/5ths Amish

in reply to jystfact

That's a sure way to get me off of your OS. FAFO I've already dropped M$ products.
in reply to Tempus Fugit

99% of the people won't care and continue using it anyway. The other 1℅ isn't nearly enough to keep any non AOSP OS alive.
in reply to Trihilis

If postmarket gets the drivers under control, we can be running relatively vanilla distros on them. There's already a version of NixOS that leans on postmarkets work to run Nic right on a dozen different phones

You just need a window manager that can handle touch, small form factor, and just a couple of gigs of RAM. And there are already projects doing that.

in reply to rumba

Yeah I hope that happens. But I'm pretty low on hope these days...
in reply to Trihilis

I feel ya friend.

Those guys are getting really decent funding, then Gnome and Plasma-mobile are already serviceable. It's really just a matter of reverse engieering the cellular radio/voice/volte and the true hard part of the networks not pulling the rug on that work.

in reply to Trihilis

IDK, I'm pretty sure in capitalism the line is supposed to go BRRRRR. People leaving a platform or service isn't good for their bottom line. The only way to teach these corps is to hit em in the wallet.
in reply to jystfact

Does anyone have try puri.sm/products/librem-5/ Or c2 shop.jolla.com/
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in reply to interdimensionalmeme

Jolla is definitely interesting, but search around, there are caveats.

One notable thing is that until pretty recently they were on a subscription model for OS updates, that turned a lot of people off. I get the need for continued funding, but definitely not something I'd want to deal with on my phone.

Also, for me personally, my phone is partially for work too so it needs to be compatible with that or else I honestly probably don't really even need a phone. Jolla has some preliminary support there, but there's no way it could pass our requirements for MDM compliance at my company and I doubt it would for most others. There are things that are non-optional there in relation to audit requirements that a lot of very different companies all have to comply with and it's just not compatible with the idea. That's probably going to be the major sticking point for any smaller players trying to break into the mobile market.

I might consider a Jolla tablet if they gave it another shot, but we do have a lot more options in the linux non-phone portable space.

in reply to cyrano

How many carriers support it? I've legit been eyeing this for months for the next phone, but have never gotten a good answer
in reply to mnemonicmonkeys

Assuming you are in US, it seems dependent on ATT backbone. That is not a complete turnoff for me. I use ATT and the covereage is almost perfect. I cannot recall the last time I lost service.

I would be willing to call the company with questions and try it for everyone, assuming the pass the qusstions. Do you send ifo to AI like fairphone? Do you have any deals with Google? Are you open source?

Well, nevermind. They have nothing in stock that has a North American modem.

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in reply to jystfact

Google says it's no different than checking IDs at the airport.


You're not a fucking airport, Google!

in reply to TigerAce

Also we bought and own the fucking plane! Don't tell us where we can fly to!
in reply to YiddishMcSquidish

Better. We bought the airport. Google was paid to pave the runway and maintain it for a couple years after. And now they try to dictate that only planes they approve may start and land.
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in reply to Don_alForno

While stealing and selling all the data from the passengers.
in reply to jystfact

It also becomes no different than iPhone, so.. what's keeping me to android if they do this? Or hey, maybe I'll commit to de-googling. I have CoMaps, I'm planning to setup nextcloud soon... Hell, I don't even buy anything on Google play anymore since it's so shit, i have no purchases tying me to the OS. Maybe I'll buy a cheap old iPhone so I can finally use imessage with everyone that's been bitching about me and use other tech for everything else.

(I'm not going to iPhone, but the point stands)

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in reply to Bongles

I'm wondering why I even need a smartphone at this point. I'm tempted to go back to a flip phone.
in reply to tmyakal

I guess the next question is, which of those is actually better? If those collect data too, then how do we get out of this damned mess.
in reply to Bongles

That is precisely one of my main lines of reasoning; I've thought about this for a long, long time, and I'm switching to Apple iPhone. I'm keeping a Oukitel Titan for Android stuff ((Grayjay)). But I'm getting the 17 Extra Pro Max Plus Plus or whatever for a main.
in reply to Bongles

The only reason I still have Android is work apps in required to have that won't work properly without the Play Store. I guess I could carry two phones but I am definitely not that guy.
in reply to Bongles

I left iphone because of a walled garden issue, was thinking about working with my parents off of iphone so I can actually assist with them because I've been off of it for decades.

Instead may be the other direction because at least iOS has a modicum of privacy by at least telling the US government to make their own back doors instead of just licking the boot like google does. I'm not a fan of apple by any stretch of the imagination, but at this point of the falling apart world fuck it, I gotta figure out what the least evil is, even if it's only marginal.

in reply to Azal

I’m not a fan of Apple either (I have mostly Apple stuff except for a Linux gaming machine). But they are the lesser of the two evils. At least in my opinion. Google is openly selling your data and making them richer in the process. At least Apple says they don’t sell your data. I don’t know if they do. But I’d doubt it tbh
in reply to jystfact

Any developer of piracy or emulation related software will not apply for the registration, because the trail will point to they official identity, opening a flank to legal actions. This will kill piracy in Android.
in reply to Cochise

Half agree, there are official emulation apps on the play store right now. I literally just downloaded drastic on a off brand tablet.
in reply to Cochise

RetroArch ist not a tool for Piracy and u can pretty much emulate anything with it
in reply to Cochise

Whilst this is true, it's also a good reason to move to self hosting if possible.

I've been slowly removing my reliance on these ad filled services, even though the apks I use have ads removed, and this news just gives me more reason to ramp this up since these same APKs may no longer work without some trickery by 2027 (if they go with this plan).

Still, this all seems like constant patchwork as any and all effort is being taken to rid ourselves of control over our devices. It's an iffy situation and I just hope people smarter than myself will continue fighting, in some manner.

in reply to jystfact

How about we abandon proprietary locked-down launcher sandboxes on our phones and just run regular old Linux on them like we do on the desktop?

Isn't that what PostmarketOS is? Is there some bullshit firmware issue in the way of that? What exactly is stopping us?

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in reply to infinitesunrise

The difference is that mobile phone hardware is commonly more locked down by default than x86 hardware. Whatever phone you have now likely has some weird shit on it that makes it really difficult to do anything but what the manufacturer wants you to do. What Microsoft is trying to do with Win11 and TPM 2.0, has basically already been done with many brands of smartphone. I've been trying to research affordable smartphones to daily drive that are also de-googled, and hours of research has resulted in me struggling to use a pinephone. The hardware, the software, they're just not there, either. It's not like desktop Linux where really it's better than Windows if you give it a chance. Mobile FOSS OSes might be daily drivable if you try really hard.
in reply to drspawndisaster

What OS did you put on it and what issues have you run into? I've been considering the Pinephone Pro because it seemed both more flexible and cheaper than a Librem.
in reply to jystfact

No one talking about how this could completely annihilate open source .apk development? First off the lead dev has to get identity verified to get a key, which will reduce the number of devs willing to push through friction to start a project. Then when the key is issued and it is posted to the repository, what keeps anyone from grabbing it and using it for another repo? We'll they have an official app registration of some kind, ok, what about version control? Does every new version have to be registered before it can be loaded and tested? Same for forks?

This is about to be a terrible mess, Google is assassinating FOSS with this.

in reply to Coopr8

You distribute the code without your key and a built package that is signed. This isn't exactly rocket science.

Anyone who forks the code will have to use their own key to install a package they built.

It's just unnecessary red tape.

in reply to InFerNo

It's just unnecessary red tape.


Which will reduce the number of people using foss apks, which will in turn, reduce the motivation, and then the number, of foss apk developers.

in reply to giant_smeeg

Fdroid itself and every package they host will have to be signed.

Maybe there are still workarounds, like enabling dev mode on your phone, but still tedious.

in reply to Coopr8

It will kill everyone that is playing around with the phones. I have done a couple mobile projects where I just sideloaded the package I created to quickly test it and to demo it to people. Now that I can't do that why would I develop for your platform by choice.
in reply to jystfact

Wao, how is this going to work if now they are required by law to allow third-party stores in Android? What the fuck?
in reply to Steve Dice

Yeah, I usually download directly from the release in the repos (github, Gitlab, Codeberg, etc) with obtainium. F-Droid only if there's no alternative, and Aurora if it only exists in Google Play. This is a game changer for the worse.
in reply to jystfact

Google has been been cracking down on installing .apk's on your phone for years and they're getting more and more aggressive about it. It's not a question of if they'll disallow it completely, but when.

It's already extremely tedious. Back in the Android 2.3 days (oh, good old Gingerbread) you could just get an APK and install it, but those times are long gone.

Years ago they threatened the developer of Total Commander to remove his app from the PlayStore unless he patched out an APK install feature, so he was forced to do that.

Now another example: Try to install eBay on a phone that is not passing device integrity. It is not listed on the PlayStore because your device doesn't pass safety checks. You can grab an APK and install it, but the OS will check if the app has been installed through the PlayStore and if it hasn't, it will complain and close itself.

GrapheneOS has patched that bullshit out, btw.

And this behaviour happens with all apps where the developer has enabled the "App Integrity" option, which is heavily pushed as a super-great security feature. So developers might just enable that feature, not being fully aware of the implications.

As you can see, it's one method at a time, slowly but surely, until Google fully controls the ecosystem. The intention behind that is pretty clear: They don't want people to have AdAway and Revanced, they want money and user data. And they also want you to login to the PlayStore, get hooked on their stupid daily points challenges and spend your hard-earned money on virtual crap.

This is textbook enshittification, it will only get worse from here on.

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in reply to ඞmir

Yeah I carry that DNS server around with me in the other pocket /s
in reply to lazynooblet

Oddly enough your phone is more than powerful enough to do that.
in reply to lazynooblet

Idk why you're meming, it's easy as hell to run it on device, or you can just use dns.adguard.com instead
in reply to ඞmir

To be fair, unless you're using a private, controllable DNS with a frontend interface (like NextDNS, Pihole, etc) -- DNS ad blocking is "all or nothing". Those apps let you control which apps and services and domains come through.
in reply to NotKyloRen

I'm aware, I choose to use the adguard one but I've used the on-device ones in the past
in reply to lazynooblet

Rethink DNS
in reply to jystfact

I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: furilabs.com/

Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.

Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:
* clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-…
* news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1f…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j…
* theregister.com/2025/02/03/fur…

I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.

in reply to jystfact

Let Google know what you think: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAI…
in reply to xcjs

Not touching that website with a 10’ pole, spyware confirmed.
in reply to ohshit604

It's the official feedback form from developer.android.com/develope…

You didn't confirm anything.

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in reply to xcjs

Last time I check google is willing to log every keystroke you make on their sites, doesn’t matter if it’s YouTube.com, Gmail.com or Android.com if google owns and controls the content its spyware.
in reply to ohshit604

A fair point, but you misrepresented the nature of the link all the same.
in reply to jystfact

Hve linux nerds invented a new OS for phones yet? I think I'm gonna need one
in reply to orenj

They did, it's not great and device support is very limited.
in reply to weirdo_from_space

From what I can tell most of the roadblock is drivers for hardware support. Basically every price of hardware has to have a reverse engineered driver to work. We need hardware mfrs on board to really gain traction in this arena.

Still, I'm pretty sure my next phone is going to be a Linux phone. I know I'll lose functionality but if I can make calls, send texts, and browse the web I'll get by. Hopefully that space keeps gaining traction and it won't be long until it is a truly viable option to replace google/apple products.

in reply to Crozekiel

imho the biggest roadblock is more general applications. Most desktop apps don't scale well or at all to mobile screens, but it's better than nothing.
in reply to weirdo_from_space

At this point I'm thinking of just carrying around a small touchscreen laptop
in reply to orenj

Yes, and its pretty great on devices you can install it on.

Problem is? Its not possible to install on most phones.

in reply to orenj

Postmarket OS is getting there. It only runs at all on a couple dozen older phones. And they don't currently have receive voice. But 2 months ago they didn't have 4G data or send voice so...

Oh, and battery life is not good.

My next mobile device will likely be a small tablet running Linux and a Wi-Fi hotspot.

in reply to rumba

Hopefully we can see more efforts at generalizing phone OSs so they work on most devices, similar to how we have laptops.
in reply to humanoidchaos

Oh, the problem isn't the OS's. You can hardly get a phone that can have its bootloader unlocked these days.

When they stop providing security for our flagship phones, if we could just install lineage or GOS on it, they wouldn't get a new purchase out of us, and they'd also stop receiving all our data that they can sell..

in reply to jystfact

For your security we're going to block your access to FOSS and apps that let you avoid our ads. This is totally not a business decision. Pinky swear.
in reply to Banzai51

for the greater good

This good is gonna be so great after we lose everything to the worst of us.

in reply to Banzai51

and avoid our datamining capabilities, and the intrusive AI we keep pushing on unwanted customers. we knew thier android core app(spyware) was the first step. they probably want that to permanantly installed into everyones phone.
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in reply to jystfact

I know it’s not for everyone, but my Light Phone III arrives soon and tech headlines of late aren’t making me regret my choice.
in reply to DegenerateSupreme

This device looks really interesting, but I don't see anything on their site about how I can write software for Light Phone, or install anything except what they provide through their app.

How is that any different from what Google plans to do to Android?

in reply to BackYardIncendiary

Yeah, need them hardware manufacturers too.
\
We would have plenty of Linux phones if drivers were open sauce or even just available closed sauce.
in reply to jystfact

My phone is not an airport. It's a garbage collection machine found in a trash, with a battery so it looks portable. I don't need an ID to use it, nobody will ever need.
in reply to MangioneDontMiss

Not until this pain is felt and developers see an opportunity
in reply to MangioneDontMiss

Graphene and PostmarketOS. Biggest issue is banks and other organisations that only want to make apps that run in locked down environments. There needs to be a real push to bring in legislation to make this stuff work.
in reply to jystfact

I heard that they're probably going to be using the Google Play store and probably similar modules to play protect to enforce this. So the question becomes will disabling the Google Play store bypass this? It outright kills play protect dialogue as well as its app disabling capability as a whole since play protect is part of Google Play store.
in reply to jystfact

So Android is pointless now?
No, really. If I'm gonna be dragged kicking and screaming into the walled garden, why would I go with Google's joke of an ecosystem instead of much nicer and better integrated Apple garden?

I might as well start carrying one of those weird branded ultra-tiny laptops from AliExpress and some used, older iPhone for the 2 apps I need.
Fuck it. Throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub, the whole damn thing. Fuuuuck it.

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in reply to LiveLM

i have a feeling that google largely gave up on making a decent phone for a while, all they want is your data, plus to put thier AI into everything to offset the cost of using AI.
in reply to Tollana1234567

To be fair, they never cared about making a decent phone. They have always just wanted your data. They are a marketing company and you are the product up for sale.
in reply to myfunnyaccountname

that was pretty much clear years ago, when they moved onto to thier inhouse chips.
in reply to jystfact

I thought the EU said that Google and apple have to permit other app stores? If that is the case they'd have to allow side loading in effect.
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in reply to mub

As long as the developer of the app store undergoes registration
in reply to jystfact

The android dream is over. It was fun while it lasted. My next phone will be linux
in reply to jystfact

Can we still load custom roms? It's been a while since my last install of Lineage OS.

If that's not an option either, well, Linux phones I'm coming!

in reply to jystfact

I don't know anything about jailbreaking android phones yet, but are there resources for getting into doing this to my current android and taking responsibility for security myself?
in reply to whalebiologist

It's called rooting on Android, but you may have issues with banking apps blocking your phone, you will need a locked older phone to use them.
in reply to arararagi

ok that's good to know. Thankfully I'm only reliant on my phone for receiving text messages for 2FA and navigation.
in reply to jystfact

This a massive overreach and so stupid when nowadays apple even relaxed their limitations a little, I heard that iOS users don't need to jailbreak anymore to use outside apps.
What will be the point of android?
in reply to jystfact

So say you want to move to one of these other OS's graphene or whatever. Do those work with modern banking apps? Pretty much the only reason they haven't done The switch so far is because Bank of America would tell me to fuck right off as far as I know
in reply to CodingCarpenter

you can pack them on the magisk denylist and then they might work flawlessly.

this has never failed me but i would still not recommend it.

these banks and Google have no hesitation to cut your access to your money one day. they own your way of interacting with the web now and they don't like what you're attempting here

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in reply to jystfact

Google’s move to block sideloading of unverified Android apps marks a major shift toward tighter security. While it aims to curb malware and fraud, it also raises concerns about user freedom and indie developer access—Android’s openness is slowly fading. mcdvoice
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