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Broken links aside (fix incoming), #FDroid raises the case against the #Google developer forced registration once again.

We'll skip the small talk, go read, and better yet, spread this wide and far: f-droid.org/2025/09/29/google-… so people are made aware, actions can be taken and #Android is kept truly open!

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in reply to F-Droid

your citing format doesn't seems to render properly in the web?
in reply to F-Droid

I'm wondering: is a stock rom with removed Google Apps still under this restriction?

removed with #shizuku / canta.

#FDroid #android

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in reply to Radasbona

nope
if you disable/remove GMS and GPlay, google cannot do shit to your android
if you root, you can force it to install/replace GMS/GPlay with microG
in reply to just a blåhaj

@a_blahaj @radasbona We don't know the exact mechanism, we can imagine system components being tied to "verification lists". This might not be an issue for those few rooted users.
in reply to F-Droid

They're NOT changing the android base itself. It'd simply be too diffucult. And what does google have access over? GMS and GPlay.They also stated that ADB will still let you install APKs however you want, so if F-Droid supports/adds support for Shizuku, the problem would be mitigated...
...temporairly...Because google's plan is not to keep this, their tone says.

That's why rooting is a good idea. With root you can brute-force literally anything to happen.

in reply to just a blåhaj

@a_blahaj FYI, Shizuku packages are not-FOSS. Not sure we can recommend that currently. Also any solution that starts with "install adb and..." will not be feasible for 99.99999999% of users. We want good, secure, private, clean apps for everyone, not just for those lucky ones that know how to or can connect to a PC.
in reply to just a blåhaj

@a_blahaj You can always ask this question about any app: "If it's FLOSS, why isn't it on F-Droid?" The answer might enlighten you. Case in point: github.com/RikkaApps/Shizuku/i…
in reply to Radasbona

@radasbona
Short answer: It depends on the ROM, not any Google apps. If it's from a major manufacturer, probably.

Long answer: It's only on "certified Android" devices, and by that they mean on ROMs that are "certified" by Google, and installed on devices, but you can still replace that "certified" ROM with a non-certified one, such as GrapheneOS, LineageOS, etc, which wouldn't be under the restriction.

android.com/certified/partners…

They clarify in their blog.
android-developers.googleblog.…

in reply to Bolt

@boltx @radasbona "You can replace" is a big gamble with dwindling number of devices that you can buy today to even try. Are the best devices still from Google itself? Interesting. Did the biggest Android vendor on this side of the world (ughh-Samsung?) just blocked unlocking? Bad luck.
in reply to Radasbona

@radasbona if i understood google's pitch of this walled garden concept correctly, then you wouldn't even be able to get into developer mode with the restriction.
(though it's been around a month since i've read it, so my memory could be off)
in reply to F-Droid

formatting of article with links is very off putting.
in reply to F-Droid

Fortunately, de-googled Android phones are a thing. I am in need of a new phone and will be looking in this direction. I am hoping Google is stopped from implementing this new policy, but with the current administration, I see little chance of that happening. F-Droid has been my first choice for apps for a couple of years now. I hate to think of them ceasing to exist.

Eye reshared this.

in reply to F-Droid

I'll ditch stock rom and ll install custom that doesn't need Google shit and ll install f-droid in and use my phone freely.... But I'll wait for Google final answer.... F-droid need to launch their own phone with full Foss at very minimal cost to destroy proprietorship of tech corporates .. We ll buy f-droid fun immediately. Now it's time
in reply to Goku

@Goku @F-Droid oh lord that's a loaded suggestion...

Insisting a non-profit, donation based, open source project launch an entire hardware business and produce cheap hardware?

It would be astronomically expensive to set up, and the resulting phone would be a budget phone for flagship price... the opposite of what you want. (See the few Linux phone builders out there for reference... and those are companies with investors)

in reply to Shiri Bailem

@shiri investors not the problem.. Problem is very high profit 'margin.... In past 1+ done something grt when they created 1st 1+1 at 300$ when other manufacturers were selling at 600-700$..so it's little tough but not impossible...
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in reply to Goku

@GOKUSHRM @shiri Read a bit more about how 1+ did this and their backing though. It rhymes with *ppo 😉
in reply to F-Droid

We can also take more extreme and illegal measures against Google. In fact, it's certain to happen. Those with some knowledge will always be able to evade this. Ordinary users they are not worth it.
in reply to F-Droid

there's also the CMA which folks in the UK can report to. I documented my report here: danb.me/blog/google-developer-…
in reply to F-Droid

If we want #Android to be open, we need not permissive licensing, not #copyleft licensing, but a sense of “copyfarleft.”
in reply to F-Droid

I remember microsoft doing everything in it's power to destroy open-source alternatives to windows...now it's google's turn!
in reply to F-Droid

While I fully agree with your assessment and hope that Google's plans are stopped, I don't see why F-Droid couldn't register identifiers for distributed apps. There's no need for them to be the same identifiers the developers chose, is there?

My own app is distributed exclusively via F-Droid. I wouldn't mind if the F-Droid builds used an identifier like `org.f-droid.<my-app-id>`.

in reply to F-Droid

Did they already announce if and how they want to force phone vendors to leave that requirement in *their* versions of Android?

If they only lose the title of “certified Android device” but everything else still works, it should be possible to demand from the vendors that they … just undo that for their flavours of Android.

Or is “certified Android device” the requirement imposed by *other* apps to be installable (the thing that makes a lot of banking apps not work on custom ROMs)?

Surely hope that @Fairphone (inactive on the fediverse?) will still allow me to run F-Droid irrespective if Google takes that plan back or not.

in reply to Benjamin Braatz

@HeptaSean @Fairphone Vendors want to be certified to be able to carry Google apps (Youtube, Maps, Play, etc), they'll not endanger that. As the terms are not clear (does Google enforce signature blocking for certification purposes? Is the vendor allowed to add a toggle? Can #EU ask all vendors that want to sell to Europeans to add a toggle? etc) we can't know.
in reply to F-Droid

"The life of righteous may be swallowed by deceit for a time — but in the end, righteous will prevail."
in reply to F-Droid

The likely scenario is that those of us who use F-droid will eventually be able to circumvent this restriction. Even if I had to stop using the banking app on my phone, I could still use the browser on my phone or computer for banking transactions.
The rest of the population that uses Android won't even notice anything and will continue to download from Google Play whatever the ads show them.
in reply to Plsik (born in 320 ppm) 🇨🇿🇺🇦🇵🇸

@plsik But you will notice when your Google entrapped friends and family can't install the same nice apps from F-Droid: to take notes, to browse without scammy ads, to play or to communicate with you.
in reply to F-Droid

Question for understanding:

In case google isn't stopped by law:
Can in theory, users of custom rom degoogled Android versions in phones still use the F-Droid store like normal?

80% of my Apps now are open source anyways and the other ones ( as of now) work without google services or might be ok with microG.

I' d rather deal with not having Banking- Apps and nfc running on my phone ( not using both from phone anyways) than succumbing to googles world-domination fantasy.

in reply to F-Droid

Ich würde mir auch vom @BMDS Beiträge dazu wünschen, wie die Einstellung zu dieser MonopolisierungsHandlung von Google ist, die faktisch dazu führt, dass die gesamte mobil digitale Alltagsnutzbarkeit von unverzichtbaren Diensten (Banking, Fahrkarten, NFC...) komplett von 2 US Konzernen abhängig gemacht wird.

Google hat damit faktisch komplette Kontrolle über 70+% des Handymarktes und dessen Software + Infrastruktur der EU.

Wohin kann man sich als Bürger wenden?

in reply to F-Droid

Hello 🙂

More or less at half of the page, you have written:

«The F-Droid project cannot require that developers register their apps through Google, but at the same time, we cannot “take over” the application identifiers for the open-source apps we distribute, as that would effectively seize exclusive distribution rights to those applications.»

This passage is unclear to me, could you explain better?

Anyway, i don't understand how google could prevent a software developer to just release their source code and builds without registering themselves and their apps with google, so i guess that the problem would "only" be with developers who want to put their apps on google's store too. I also guess they are many, for obvious reasons; anyway, if google will act accordingly to its announcement, i think f-droid should, if possible, go on distributing apps by those developers who would not choose to comply to google's diktat (while i seem to understand there would be no possible technical solution for those who would choose to comply).

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in reply to Jones

anyway, at the end of the post you've written:

«If you are a developer or user who values digital freedom, you can help. Write to your Member of Parliament [europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/hom…], Congressperson [house.gov/representatives/find…] or other representative, sign petitions in defense of sideloading and software freedom, and contact the European Commission’s Digital Markets Act (DMA) team [digital-markets-act.ec.europa.…] to express why preserving open distribution matters. By making your voice heard, you help defend not only F-Droid, but the principle that software should remain a commons, accessible and free from unnecessary corporate gatekeeping.»

Since i live in italy, i'll certainly try to contact europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/hom… and digital-markets-act.ec.europa.… 🙂

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in reply to F-Droid

I'm confused, why people think using de-googled ROM flavors won't have this restriction? Chances are Google will poison the Android SDK directly.
in reply to pak0st

@pak0st When you build an Android distribution you can decide what to put inside. Depending on what layer the restrictions are setup, this might impact non-Google versions or not.
in reply to F-Droid

that is true. The actual implementation can cause differences in how they will lock it down. Would the Android SDK binaries enforce the verification? Would we have to build the SDK tools from source to disable it? Perhaps it would be some system service in the ROM itself?

With the recent release changes on AOSP, I feel Google will absolutely make the process as painful as possible to revert the "security enhancement". Technically it would be possible, practically tho...

in reply to F-Droid

Signed!

Quibble: it's spelled "provenance", without the "i". 🙂

Thanks for doing this. It's not just the freedom to use our own gear the way we want it, it's the lack of desire to have American companies to tell us what to do.

in reply to F-Droid

Maybe we can get all of the F-Droid developers to walk away from the awful Java environment and put their energy into native apps running on Ubuntu Touch 🤪
in reply to F-Droid

this looks like the best place to ask this question.
Hypothetically, if a developer chooses not to register with gooooogle, but still writes apps and publishes their code on gitea or codeberg or some other repository, can they still have their apps on fdroid? Maybe not on play store, but in fdroid?

Jones reshared this.

in reply to Sabrina Web 📎

@sabrinaweb71
(i've made this question too, yesterday: todon.nl/@jones/11528919301052…)


Hello 🙂

More or less at half of the page, you have written:

«The F-Droid project cannot require that developers register their apps through Google, but at the same time, we cannot “take over” the application identifiers for the open-source apps we distribute, as that would effectively seize exclusive distribution rights to those applications.»

This passage is unclear to me, could you explain better?

Anyway, i don't understand how google could prevent a software developer to just release their source code and builds without registering themselves and their apps with google, so i guess that the problem would "only" be with developers who want to put their apps on google's store too. I also guess they are many, for obvious reasons; anyway, if google will act accordingly to its announcement, i think f-droid should, if possible, go on distributing apps by those developers who would not choose to comply to google's diktat (while i seem to understand there would be no possible technical solution for those who would choose to comply).

(1/2)


in reply to Sabrina Web 📎

@sabrinaweb71 They can, but then their friends and family can't install their app. Who wants that?

Jones reshared this.

in reply to F-Droid

@sabrinaweb71

So, correct me if i'm wrong, the matter is this: if the google diktat will be actually enforced, no app not signed by google will be able to run on android.

in reply to Jones

@jones @sabrinaweb71 We see this confusion a lot. Google will only hold "a list of application ids and their associated signatures" that they *approved*. The signing part continues as usual. Play apps after Nov 2021 will be signed by Google, older ones will be signed by the developers. On F-Droid, apps are signed by the developers (reproducible builds) or by F-Droid.
in reply to F-Droid

Thank you. So it would be technically possible to keep f-droid.org running, even if google will actually enforce their diktat (as is very very probable, i seem to understand), to distribute the apps of those developers who would not register with google, right? And maybe also the apps of those developers who would?
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in reply to Jones

We sure do can, but we are also aware that the wast majority of our users is not running Google-free devices.
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in reply to F-Droid

So these apps that f-droid.org could still distribute, regardless of whether developers will choose to register with google or not, will *not* run on any phone with... what? The "google play services"?
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in reply to Jones

@jones @sabrinaweb71 On the so called "stock" phones that come with Google apps, yes.

Jones reshared this.

in reply to F-Droid

Thank you 😀
So f-droid would still work only on fairphones and other very costly degoogled phones, right?
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in reply to Jones

only on murena fairphones, not the normal google ones. it would also (from what i understand) work on any android phone running a non-google rom, like a pixel with grapheneOS
in reply to Jones

i wouldn't say "lots of money", you could get a phone that can run a non-google os for relatively cheap, if your own phone can't do it (although, would you really want to wipe your phone to unlock the bootloader?)
it just means people can't use their existing setup to run the apps, which is mega bullshit (and yes, they shouldn't have to pay more to be able to)
in reply to 🌸 lily 🏳️‍⚧️ θΔ ⋐ & ∞

@tauon @sabrinaweb71
I've searched many times for a degoogled rom supporting the 3 phones i have had (a ~100 euro samsung phone, another one, and the one i currently use, a nokia c-20 that i've bought for 60 euros), and never found one, so it is evident to me that this google diktat, when enforced, would cut out the vast majority of people of the world from the possibility of running free and open source and much much more secure apps on their phones.

Sabrina Web 📎 reshared this.

in reply to Jones

@jones
Fairphones aren't degoogled by default, you have to do that yourself. If the Fairphone is running the stock Google-certified ROM, apps from devs not approved by Google (so most on F-Droid) won't install.

Degoogled phones don't have to be costly though, I'm running LineageOS on a budget Motorola from 2019. There are less and less phones with unlockable bootloaders though, and that's a problem because you need that for degoogling.
@fdroidorg @sabrinaweb71

in reply to F-Droid

@jones @sabrinaweb71 am I getting this right that if hypothetically one would somehow have F-Droid on an affected phone, reproducible builds would still work through F-Droid if the app is older than 2021?

(not that it would matter in practice)

in reply to trissc̈hen

@trisschen Ignore the "2021" bit. Reproducible or not, we don't yet know what happens with already installed apps signed by developers that won't submit to Google gatekeeping.
in reply to F-Droid

> we cannot “take over” the application identifiers for the open-source apps we distribute, as that would effectively seize exclusive distribution rights to those applications.

I'm not sure I completely understand: does this mean that if an app chooses a unique name, say com.something.super.app, then it somehow belongs to google ? You don't want to becomo another central point of apps identification ? Naively it seems like every dev team could just distribute on f-droid with the id they choose, so I don't see what is blocking

in reply to rakoo

@rakoo It means that only the package with Google approved signature can be installed on the "certified devices". F-Droid might host a package named the same with the same signature (reproducible build) and all be fine or F-Droid might sign itself and Google controlled devices will reject the package.
in reply to F-Droid

tbh I don’t exactly get how this affects F-Droid at all. Like, if you’re saying it does, I’m sure that’s true, but I don’t understand what Google is intending to do in that regard. Also obviously still incredibly evil of them regardless.

And what Google achieves with that for me (who was about to purchase a new not just Android but Google phone specifically) is making me delay that purchase and more seriously consider some sort of Linux phone instead 🙃

in reply to F-Droid

@F-Droid @trissc̈hen to clarify how this affects F-Droid:

When implemented developers will be required to get their application signed by Google, regardless of whether it's distributed from the play store or not.

This comes about in large part because Google is being forced to allow third party app stores like F-Droid to get more elevated privileges and with it become easier and more accessible to use (among other things, I honestly haven't stayed entirely on top of it).

They're pitching it as a protective measure to prevent malicious sideloads, but the reality is it'll force side loaded apps to pay Google money as if they were on the play store anyways, as well as allow them to exert the same control over them as they do on the play store.

in reply to Shiri Bailem

@shiri @trisschen Please see floss.social/@fdroidorg/115293… and don't confuse "signed" with "allow to install".


@jones @sabrinaweb71 We see this confusion a lot. Google will only hold "a list of application ids and their associated signatures" that they *approved*. The signing part continues as usual. Play apps after Nov 2021 will be signed by Google, older ones will be signed by the developers. On F-Droid, apps are signed by the developers (reproducible builds) or by F-Droid.

in reply to F-Droid

This kind of move is against DMA. Even Apple can't go against such rule. Google will lose too.
@R1Rail
in reply to F-Droid

I've contacted the Digital Markets Act Team.

I think it would be really helpful if you provided a sample text people could use when contacting the DMA team, or local representatives.

Would you consider an online petition too?