I probably will need a new mobile phone this year. I like my 8+ year old iphone, but american products are not an option anymore. losing some purchased apps is annoying but there is no other choice. How are experiences with the #Fairphone ? Anything else reliable made in a non trustworthy source? #Jollaphone seems very underwhelming. Good camera & battery life, large display are my “have to have it” #UnplugTrump #UnplugUS
Synapsenkitzler
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Fairphone with custom-rom is a great sustainable and independent possibility. (Maybe tricky to buy from US).
Pixel with custom-rom grapheneos is a very secure possibility.
@waldschnecke
Schneckbert 🐌
in reply to Synapsenkitzler • • •Leander Lindahl
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Schneckbert 🐌
in reply to Leander Lindahl • • •Leander Lindahl
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Schneckbert 🐌
in reply to Leander Lindahl • • •pchblk 🌱
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Fairphone with Murena e/OS/ blocks App-Tracker, privacy easy to manage. All Apps I need are fully functional, no google-Account needed, but I don't use Murena-Services.
#fairphone #eos #murena @murena #opensource #sustainable #unplugtrump #unplugapple
Voxelpower
in reply to pchblk 🌱 • • •@pchblk @murena
e/OS/ is pretty much the worst choice for a smartphone OS in every aspect. e/OS/ massively reduces security and privacy compared to AOSP and almost completely eliminates the security model.
This includes, among other things:
-) No support for Verified Boot (a security-critical feature in Android)
-) Months of delays in security updates
-) Full patches can sometimes take longer than a year
-) Chromium came/comes in a delivery state that has not been updated for months.
-) They once had an Orbot client in use that had not been updated for years
-) There was also an incident where their cloud service mishandled session keys and granted users access to other users' files, then lied to users that the server couldn't see the files, even though there was no E2EE
-) The voice-to-text service from e/OS/ sends data to OpenAI by default ...
This is not a complete list; see also:
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134…
In addition, Fairphone uses some EoL hardware and still lacks important security features.
See also information from Tavi (Android security researcher and former developer of DivestOS):
forum.fairphone.com/t/is-fairp…
You should take a look at the comparison table from eylenburg, which provides a clear overview of important information about the individual custom OSes:
eylenburg.github.io/android_co…
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumSchneckbert 🐌
in reply to Voxelpower • • •pchblk 🌱
in reply to Voxelpower • • •@Voxelpower @murena so what is your advice? Old iOS with lack of updates? What is an non american, sustainable Phone which is practical?
GrapheneOS is great, but it supports only PixelPhones.
( Deleted some actually false information about grapheneOS )
Schneckbert 🐌
in reply to pchblk 🌱 • • •I have the kit lying around to restore my old iPod with an SD card and a fresh battery ... I'm quite sick of this... I'ts not the future I wanted to live in.
GrapheneOS
in reply to pchblk 🌱 • • •@pchblk @Voxelpower
> GrapheneOS is great, but it supports only PixelPhones
These are currently the only smartphones capable of providing reasonable privacy and security with an alternate OS. We have a partnership with a major Android OEM working towards meeting our update and security requirements for devices in 2027. We started working with them in June 2025 but it took a while to get it going and providing reasonably secure hardware, firmware and software is not an easy task.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@pchblk @Voxelpower
> Only self flashing
Not true. Devices are sold with GrapheneOS. It's also incredibly easy to install.
> Not for the masses!
It's far more suited to the masses than the unsafe products/services you're promoting. You should stop believing the lies they tell about GrapheneOS.
> Lack of some essential app-functionality
No, that's extremely inaccurate. GrapheneOS has far better app compatibility than /e/.
> a Nokia 5310
Nothing private or secure about it.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@pchblk @Voxelpower Android Open Source Project and GrapheneOS are Linux distributions. Android supports using mainline and LTS Linux kernels without modifications. Linux doesn't mean glibc, systemd and GNOME. Desktop Linux distributions have very poor privacy and atrocious security compared to AOSP or iOS. Wrong direction.
> so what is your advice?
Nearly anything other than supporting the scammers at Murena attacking real privacy projects. They successfully killed DivestOS.
Voxelpower
in reply to pchblk 🌱 • • •@pchblk @murena
A current iPhone is perfectly fine and definitely the better choice than a Fairphone with e/OS/.
> “Self flashing – not for the masses”
Incorrect, there are already several stores offering GrapheneOS:
shop.nitrokey.com/shop/categor…
shop.proxysto.re/de/i/pixel/
freifon.shop/c/freifon-kaufen/…
buy.jolla-devices.com/product/…
> “Lack of some essential app functionality”
No less than with other custom OS, quite the contrary.
> “Would say... Buy a Nokia 5310”
Far worse security and privacy than a smartphone, you can't even use encrypted messengers.
By the way, GrapheneOS is working with an OEM to ensure that future devices support the requirements for GOS (planned for 2027 iirc, @GrapheneOS is that correct?).
And honestly, I don't understand this anti-Pixel attitude. Google hardly makes any money selling Pixels (they make far more with their licensing), and if you buy them refurbished, they don't get any money at all.
If environmental protection is really important to you, buy a used smartphone and flash it with LineageOS (you can forget about security/privacy anyway, and LineageOS is still better than e/OS/). That's far better than buying a new ewaste device with an OS that only lies to users.
Handys alternatives OpenSource-Betriebssystem GrapheneOS
www.freifon.shoppchblk 🌱
in reply to Voxelpower • • •@Voxelpower @GrapheneOS
> And honestly, I don't understand this anti-Pixel attitude. Google hardly
Google supports a fascist liar who is fighting against democracies over the world with millions! Also security and tech is not unpolitical. Every descision you make is it. And so is wearing a daily accessory in your Hand and advertise Brands supporting a fascist liar.
But OK. That was not the question at first. So I am out with my advice and experience. And thanks for the GrapheneOS-hint.
GrapheneOS
in reply to pchblk 🌱 • • •@pchblk @Voxelpower Here's founder/CEO of /e/ and Murena linking to a neo-nazi conspiracy site to push fabrications about the GrapheneOS development team and direct harassment towards us:
archive.is/SWXPJ
archive.is/n4yTO
Gaël Duval has repeatedly used his personal accounts along with /e/ and Murena corporate accounts to spread harassment content including support Kiwi Farms.
Murena makes extraordinarily insecure and non-private products/services. They scam people for profit.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •bg
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •lothar
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Tobias Weibel
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Schneckbert 🐌
in reply to Tobias Weibel • • •Thats my "impression" from what I read on dxomark and some others, no real data on the 6, but it kind of paints a picture and would be pretty much one of the 3 top requirements for a device like this. (good camera, reasonable security & reasonable privacy for a person like me)
Max - Poliverso 🇪🇺🇮🇹
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • •@Schneckbert 🐌
Here's a "Fairphone Angel", I got my first FP3 in 2020 then I had FP5 and now FP6.
For the same price you can get a better phone both from a performance point of view and from a "stability" point of view (it's like using Linux, sometimes you need to workaround a problem).
So, if you buy it on a "weak motivation" there's a risk you get disappointed because it's strong point is ethics.
I'd say FP is a phone for human rights or environmental activists, people who put that stuff above many other things.
This being said, it's a good phone, you can make calls, browse the internet, listen to music, you have Wi-Fi, Bluetooh, NFC and all that nice stuff.
It's also the only phone I've ever had that makes me proud of it. Usually, a phone can make you happy if it's a good phone but not make you proud of it. Well... FP does it.
There is a strong community (the Linux analogy is always OK) that can help you if you run into troubles. There is a support team that's really slow to reply in case you need it so better if you keep a backup phone, just in case. However, when I had a problem (and after letting me wait for weeks) they really made everything they could to solve it. I've never seen the same involvement in any other support service.
Despite my involvement on the project I never suggest to anybody he/she should buy this phone, I don't want that responsibility. Satisfaction can be very different depending on how you weigh technique and ethics.
However, it's my phone since 2020, I'm happy for that and I would never change my FP6 for an iPhone 37 (or whatever number they are now 😀 )
My best wishes you can make the best choice for you.
P.S. If you live in Sweden have a look at "Bark Sweden" wooden cases. They have also for FPs, I've got one and it's the best suit for that phone 😀
Voxelpower
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Fairphone still lacks standard security features such as a secure element, and they have partially installed EoL hardware.
See also:
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134…
See also information from Tavi (Android security researcher and former developer of DivestOS):
forum.fairphone.com/t/is-fairp…
If you want a secure, privacy-friendly smartphone, the best choice would be a current Pixel (refurbished models are also fine) with GrapheneOS:
grapheneos.org/
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumSchneckbert 🐌
in reply to Voxelpower • • •Antti
in reply to Voxelpower • • •@Voxelpower But if you want European choice here then the Pixel with GOS doesn't really bring anything to the table. Of course still great choice for journalist and opposition activist! But for average Joe, there are privacy friendly options, which can even be fully Google free as they aren't even android based.
I also have problem a little bit how GOS people communicates. This has been demonstrated well in video: youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0
- YouTube
youtu.beGrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower You're participating in targeting an open source developer and project with blatant libel, bullying and harassment. Louis Rossmann is a Kiwi Farms user who directly involved them and began their harassment towards us. This is his identity verified account on that doxxing/libel/harassment site where he seeks out their support and regularly rants about organizations/individuals he wants them to target while feigning ignorance and pretending otherwise:
kiwifarms.st/members/larossman…
Just a moment...
kiwifarms.stAntti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> I didn't even talk to you
You linked to harassment content towards our team based on fabricated stories and are repeating those libelous false claims yourself.
> Claiming that I participated in libel, bullying and harassment is great lie
No, it's the truth and you continue demonstrating it.
> when you are representing yourself this way?
You're engaging in libel and harassment towards. We're just debunking it and posting accurate info about SailfishOS in response.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> You are doing bullying just right here....
No, this is more of the same lies Rossmann was engaging in and which you're now mimicking. You're engaging in libel and harassment towards our team, then claiming we're being aggressive or engaging in bullying because we responded to debunk it. Defending ourselves against someone making extremely toxic lies about our team is not bullying you. Pointing out your claims and what you're linking are fabrications is not bullying.
Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> Are you feeling okay?
You're participating in harassment towards our team. You clearly don't care about our well being. Is this the typical attempt at claiming we're insane?
> seems extreme
There's nothing extreme about our response.
> as you demonstrate that the toxic communication
Debunking posts with fabricated stories and harassment towards our team isn't toxic.
> Didn't say that GOS is bad project
You spread harassment content towards us. That's far worse.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> It just is fact that GOS doesn't bring anything to European value chain if someone wants to ditch US solutions, isn't it?
Based on what you've been saying, European values appears to be supporting a company which heavily collaborated with Russia after they invaded Ukraine. Do European values include supporting harassment towards open source developers with fabricated stories too? Do those values including portraying people as crazy who disagree with you too?
Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @Voxelpower well to be completely honest, I was devastated how almost any company didn't do anything after crimean invasion. As we know today that was bad call from everyone that it was still allowed for business to continue operate inside Russia. Did GOS exit Russia back then?
But if someone cuts Russians of by driving company to bankruptcy first and continuing with European ownership/team I am definitely willing to give them change.
GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower You have targeted GrapheneOS by spreading harassment content towards our team including on your main timeline, not only here. If that wasn't your intention then you're welcome to remove it everywhere you've posted it and we'll remove our responses about it if you'd like.
SailfishOS community has been heavily attacking GrapheneOS recently including personal attacks on our team. Jolla chose to permit it on their own forum and elsewhere so this does involve them.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Voxelpower
in reply to Antti • • •@Antti98
> "But for average Joe, there are privacy friendly options, which can even be fully Google free as they aren't even android based"
GrapheneOS is the only custom OS that does not weaken or eliminate the security of AOSP, but actually significantly improves it. It is also the only custom OS that does not delay security updates for weeks or months. Any custom operating systems that are not based on Android (e.g., Sailfish OS) lack basic security mechanisms such as modern exploit mitigations, memory-safe languages, reasonable sandboxing and permissions systems, strict MAC policies, etc.
This means they also lack the ability to protect users' privacy from malicious third parties.
The majority of GrapheneOS users are ordinary people, not opposition figures or journalists, so it is false to claim that GOS is only for such people.
And btw, the Linux kernel contains a lot of code from Google, Microsoft, Oracle, Red Hat, etc. Using Linux kernel-based OSes are not “fully Google free”.
> "I also have problem a little bit how GOS people communicates. This has been demonstrated well in video: youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0"
Louis Rossman often spreads fake news about GrapheneOS (e.g., he once said somewhere that GOS was dead and wouldn't be updating to Android 16, but a few days later, GOS was released with Android 16).
See also information from GrapheneOS about Rossmann and the video:
xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/…
Louis Rossmann also has a verified account on KiwiFarms, one of the largest neo-Nazi, hate, and troll platforms:
kiwifarms.st/members/larossman…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Far…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Far…
You can also see that he posts there regularly (the last time was this Wednesday, for example).
And that he specifically seeks out friendships with people who regularly attack GrapheneOS on KiwiFarms.
online web forum
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Antti
in reply to Voxelpower • • •@Voxelpower But back to the main point, Pixel (Google hardware) with GOS (Google developed OS with different clothes and nicer seams) doesn't contribute anything to the table if we are looking European alternatives, doesn't it?
It is okay to say that GOS is probably the safest, but why to bash every other alternative just to probe your superiority? Some alternatives are in my opinion good enough from privacy perspective to average Joe who's main privacy thread is Google/Meta/Microsoft 3/3
GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Antti
in reply to Voxelpower • • •@Voxelpower I didn't claim GOS isn't safe or anything → full lecture why it is only safe solution. Can other OS be broken easier? I bet, but on other hand how many normal Joe will ever experience that 3rd party will target your device specifically?
Difference between android and linux is that linux would still exists and develop without G. But G has full control over AOSP. They can end it any day if they want. 1/3
GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower Yeah, all you did is link to harassment content from a Kiwi Farms user targeting an open source developer and project with fabricated stories aimed at targeting them with violence. You're doing that to promote a largely closed source product (SailfishOS) with poor privacy and atrocious security paired with extremely false marketing.
GrapheneOS is a Linux distribution and unlike SailfishOS our code is entirely open source rather than mostly closed. You're spewing falsehoods.
Antti
in reply to Voxelpower • • •@Voxelpower I don't need to participate any personal attacks in one way or another. You just demonstrated what I meant, I don't know how chatting about phone OS turns into speaking about neo-Nazis without relating at all to those OSs? Can't deny that video is true tho about GOS communication? Note that I don't deny anything you say about Rossmann.
Didn't claim that average Joe couldn't use GOS, just that it makes most sense for those that probably face direct 3rd party attacks. 2/3
GrapheneOS
in reply to Antti • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> I don't need to participate any personal attacks in one way or another.
You posted content from a Kiwi Farms user bullying an open source developer and targeting him with harassment by pushing fabricated stories about him. You're engaging in personal attacks and participating in harassment.
> how chatting about phone OS turns into speaking about neo-Nazis
You linked to Kiwi Farms style harassment content. It's you who introduced it to the conversation to attack us.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> Can't deny that video is true tho about GOS communication?
Fabricated stories about our team don't demonstrate anything. You're supporting someone who targeted an open source developer with libel, bullying and harassment after they were repeatedly swatted by people who are part of actual toxic communities around other open source projects engaging in harassment to the point they've escalated it to violence. Trying to kill people via law enforcement is violence.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@Antti98 @Voxelpower
> Didn't claim that average Joe couldn't use GOS, just that it makes most sense for those that probably face direct 3rd party attacks.
GrapheneOS is far easier to use and far more production ready. It has very broad app compatibility. It's a privacy focused project first and foremost which it provides by keeping up with the latest AOSP privacy improvements and massively improving upon that with actual technical advancements. We also focus on privacy for all the services.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Balibalou
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Station
in reply to Schneckbert 🐌 • • •Schneckbert 🐌
in reply to Station • • •