Ok dude while yes voting for the lesser evil is not the best option it's still better than just letting the evil evil win. Until there is another candidate that has a real chance of winning that is not a Democrat or a Republican then voting for the lesser evil is our best shot. We may not have another election because Trump is in power or at the bear minimum these next 3 and a bit years are going to fucking suck the first year already has.
So you just say fuck it for the time being and just watch people's family's be ripped apart because you didn't vote for the lesser evil? (For this administration I know it wasn't because of people not voting trump was just way more popular than Harris)
It's absolutely incredible how stunted people are in their political thinking that they're unable to imagine any meaningful political action aside from pulling a lever every 4 years. The west is so cooked.
I can imagine more meaningful political action than pulling a lever every 4 years but you can both pull the lever and do the political action it doesn't have to be one or the other
I live in a shithole western country too. The fact that my country is going to shit doesn't preclude me from understanding why. Meanwhile, if you want to see a country that's not going to shit just go look at China or Vietnam.
...yes voting for the lesser evil is not the best option it’s still better than just letting the evil evil win.
Who said that we should just let the evil win? I don't see that anywhere.
It's so weird to me how many people accept the binary that's been handed to them. As though the ones that hand you that choice would ever let one of the options be to your advantage.
The meme is literally about not voting for the lesser evil (which is currently the only other actual option in our political system) that in turn means letting the evil win
which is currently the only other actual option in our political system
Premise: false
Isn't it weird how continuing to do the things that got us here, isn't fixing the problems that were created? I wonder why that could be. I guess we'll never know.
I'm not sure that you're gonna find "The Answer" that you want on here, but this is my attempt: Vote for someone that isn't the lesser evil. Self Organize on a local level. Fight fascist supporters even when they pretend to be the good guys. Unionize.
I feel like we'd see a lot more progress if these types of comments were higher up in the chain, instead of buried at the end of a conversation. I see a lot of ridiculing people for not knowing this stuff, a la: xkcd.com/1053/
I understand it's the ignorant masses' responsibilities to educate themselves. But like, we could all stand to make it easier on one another instead of jumping down each other's throats all the time.
Also this isn't directed at you in particular, just in general. I just liked your response, and I wish more people would give answers like this.
When the Democrats run a candidate who tries to act more hawkish on Iran than the GOP, gives a big speech about how we're not giving our over funded military enough and how she'll give us the "deadliest military in history," gives a speech on immigration where she literally says DO NOT COME , all while currently and presently doing all that they can to assist Israel conducting an actual fucking genocide...
... it should be really obvious that people like you don't even know that the fuck is going on. You're not even supporting a lesser evil, at this point it's just a fucking more polite evil. They'd still be ramping up deportations, you just wouldn't have Kamala posting dipshittery gloating about it on Twitter, AND FOLKS LIKE YOU WOULD BE AT BRUNCH NOT GIVING A FUCK
You should've seen the hoods the other guy would have made us wear. Enabling a genocide of our colonial subjects is a small price to pay to maintain 5% of our dignity. I'm on the left btw
"Hey, so electoralism is a rigged game, because only wealthy and prestigious families have enough money to finance the popularity contest to get themselves or their puppet candidates elected."
Marxists in the 1800s, with the rise of representative governments:
"Hey, this system is proving to be the safest shell for capitalist rule, because wealthy capitalists are able to stack every election to get their puppets elected, and people have the illusion that they live in democracies"
Goldfish-brained liberals in the 2020s:
"Electoralism is gonna work this time, we just didn't vote hard enough before!"
I'd love to have a discussion about this. I am a socialist through and through. I believe that the system needs to be dismantled to achieve any meaningful change, and that no progress can realistically be made within the system.
I'd argue that there are 4 actions within the system. Vote red, vote blue, vote third party, and don't vote. I'd argue that all 4 options will never lead to meaningful change. However, given this, every American who is eligible to vote is forced into playing the game, there is no way to abstain. Even not voting leads to a meaningful outcome within the system, and thus is still playing the game.
If no actions within the system can change things, I pose that the only way to disrupt this system is by dismantling it from the outside via revolution.
This however, cannot be done overnight, even if you are consistently acting on it. These types of things take a general sense of civil unrest to get kicked off. I believe that under capitalism, this unrest is inevitable, and once it hits a tipping point, the revolution will start. In the meantime, I feel we have two actions we can take.
First, we should be ushering in the revolution. Organize, make people aware of the alternative, disrupt the system in any means you reasonably can, try to get people to be sympathetic to the cause, etc. Don't slack on your responsibility to prepare and eventually initiate the revolution.
Second, since we have no choice but to play the game we've been dropped in to, you should vote for short term damage mitigation. If you are forced to take an action within the system, I feel people have a moral obligation to try to reduce the harm to others as much as possible. This involves making a vote, since not voting results in almost the same outcome as a vote for the candidate furthest away from the one you considered least harmful.
I have yet to see an argument that shows how not voting is going against or dismantling the system. However, considering so many people believe that not voting is the right choice, I'm really interested in hearing someone explain it to me, as there must be some reasoning behind it that I'm not seeing.
The simple argument is that electoralism cannot work. Therefore, workers should front and vote for our own parties, to measure strength and prove the inability to gain change via electoralism.
I don't know if I understand what you are suggesting. Are you saying the working class should vote third party, or each person should vote for themself? Or when you say vote for our own parties do you mean not vote at all?
The working class should vote for socialist parties like PSL, participate in them, and organize with them. That's about the best we can do within the bounds of electoralism, but we should use that to organize for dual power and revolution.
I agree with both of you that we need to vote for socialist parties and organize with them. But that doesnt mean to support the lesser evil argument. Lesser evil argument will be that we need to vote for Hillary in order to avoid Trump for example, that is absurd and is the reason we cannot support this lesser evil stupidity. I hope Carrot is not defending this lesser evil position.
If you abstain from voting then you're basically lumping yourself in with people who don't care or actually are fine with the status quo. If you cast a blank vote then you're expressing your disapproval of all the candidates. Essentially saying "I'm willing to vote, but it won't be for any of you guys". This would make sense if the system worked but it doesn't.
I’d argue that there are 4 actions within the system. Vote red, vote blue, vote third party, and don’t vote. I’d argue that all 4 options will never lead to meaningful change.
Second, since we have no choice but to play the game we’ve been dropped in to, you should vote for short term damage mitigation.
Let's draw the logical conclusion here.
Short term damage mitigation is the goal. There are three options that incur short term damage. Option 4, however, lets one continue working or resting, therefore incurring no damage at all.
As all 4 options don't lead to any meaningful change, option 4 is the best option.
I don't think I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that the time it takes to look into a candidate is the damage being done? I was thinking on a larger scale. All 4 options lead to a politician getting sworn in, who will inevitably, directly cause people to die. Picking the option that appears to be likely to kill the least people would theoretically cause the least damage in their 4 years. I'm calling 4 years the short term here.
Damage mitigation isn't the only thing. By voting for the party you support you're showing solidarity with that movement and also demonstrating to everyone else how the system doesn't work.
how not voting is going against or dismantling the system.
Its refusing to play their rigged game, and spending your energies elsewhere.
Every single positive change from the US came not through voting or participation in the electoral process, but from force or the threat of force from below, usually in the form of mass protests, or enemies of the US empire defeating them militarily.
Windows 10 died a few days ago, leaving users with three options: stick with the OS, upgrade to Windows 11, or switch to an entirely different platform like macOS or GNU/Linux. But months before Microsoft dropped support for the OS, Linux-focused companies were already campaigning to poach Microsoft customers and convert them into Linux users.
The Document Foundation, the folks behind LibreOffice, started its push as far back as June this year, criticizing Microsoft's decision to end support, which would render millions of perfectly functional PCs obsolete, and presented Linux as a cost-effective and secure alternative. We have also seen initiatives like The "End of 10" Campaign by KDE, making the case for Linux and providing guides and info on how to switch.
Of all the projects trying to poach Windows users, Zorin Group might be the most aggressive, launching its biggest OS upgrade, Zorin OS 18, on the very day Windows 10 died.
In a recent post on X, Zorin Group celebrated the launch of version 18, claiming that it hit 100,000 downloads in "a little over 2 days". The company called it its "biggest launch ever" and claimed that over 72% of those downloads came from Windows.
Zorin OS 18 just reached 100,000 downloads in a little over 2 days 🎉️
Over 72% of these downloads came from Windows, reflecting our mission to provide a better alternative to the incumbent operating systems from Big Tech.
Thank you for making this our biggest launch ever! pic.twitter.com/6U4h3EQ3dq — Zorin OS (@ZorinOS) October 16, 2025
So what's the big deal with Zorin OS 18? The new version comes with a redesigned desktop that feels a lot more modern. It uses a lighter color palette and a taskbar that has a floating, rounded style by default. The developers also introduced a much better window tiling system. If you drag a window to the top of the screen, a layout manager pops up, similar to Windows 11's Snap Layouts. The main difference here is that Zorin allows you to create your own custom tiling layouts.
As for Windows app compatibility, Zorin OS 18 now includes an updated version of WINE 10 for better support of Windows software. On top of that, there's also an expanded database that helps when it detects a Windows installer. The system checks the file and suggests the best way to run over 170 popular apps, whether that means installing a native Linux version, using the web-based alternative, or firing it up through WINE.
Microsoft isn’t offering support for it, but their help was barely useful to begin with.
There’s a few small hoops to jump through to enroll in the Extended Security Updates program, after which Windows 10 devices will continue to be functional and secure for at least another year.
Ultimately, I’m all for folks going out and dabbling in Linux. Unfortunately, most consumers are interpreting this situation as a requirement to rush out and buy a new Windows 11 PC and that’s bad.
There are two massive hoops as far as I am concerned, no local account & ms office forcing the use of one drive. I know these arent that big of an issue for most people, but I will never do either of those things.
I'm not all too familiar with mass grave, but it does seem like a similar loophole to the win11 updates without TPM 2.0, in that it works but ms doesn't want it to, so you may run into the issue of your system bricking or ms holding your data hostage. Also as far as I can decipher ltsc only fixes the security issue, as far as I am aware the one drive push is still there regardless of version.
All in all, I believe that there are workarounds, but if ms is so keen on making it this hard to stay on win 10 I would rather just take the adjustment period to a Linux distro.
IoT is Internet of Things, devices where you usually don't know there is even Windows to begin with, due to some McDonalds Menu Picker overlay or whatever. There is no market for Microsoft acc or OneDrive as they are by themselves are rarely meddled with and are installed en masse. They would get security updates for 10 another years. But besides some differences, only corpos and no end user have a reasonable access to said release, so if you may be checked for legitimity of your software e.g. you try to use it in your business and get caught, it's obvious you haven't bought keys for it. So it's for personal use only.
It's okay, Microsoft can't hurt you here anymore. You have just been living your whole life in an abusive relationship. It's okay we will be nice to you.
If just this one OS, that i havent even really heard of, hit 100k downloads in two days, then there must have been like 100M downloads in the last week or so for all linux distros combined. Now i wanna see someone try to aggregate all download numbers from the major distros into a time plot to see if there is a noticeable change.
I think you'll be disappointed, the zorin boost is due to their marketing as Windows esque, I believe they just tell people how they are like windows. Extrapolating downloads for more linuxy distros from one that is supposed to be windows:Linux edition is not going to work out very well.
"Zorin Group" never heard of that. Seems to be a shop that just wants to lift along with the Windows 10 discontinuation tbh.
And if their selling point is running windows apps then they have no chance. You can't get better at being windows than windows already is. You'll always be one step behind the real thing.
And really you don't need to, most linux apps are much better now that windows apps are more and more dumbed down. Look at the "new outlook" for example. It doesn't even do local storage anymore, you must import all your email into the microsoft cloud overlord.
I guess it is the year of the Linux desktop for at least some people.
I've used Linux desktop in various forms for just over two decades, this has to be the fourth time it felt like Linux was having its chance to seize marketshare. Each time it ends up not being the mass adoption that people hope for but it feels like the community grows each time so I think it is neat nonetheless.
I'm ok with that. You hit a point where a community sustains, and is good. Lemmy is a great example of that. Often, when it grows past that, it can become.. unsavory.
Anecdotally, I was tinkering with it earlier this year and finally stopped being lazy and flipped my main PC over. After I talked about it enough in my friend chat, three more friends followed suit and a fourth is going to soon. It's not just the end of supporting Windows 10, it's all of the repeated bugs, glitches, and AI garbage Microsoft has been pushing everywhere so aggressively. People who would likely only rate themselves as "mildly" tech savvy are sick of it and willing to make a move, I feel.
I'm all for Linux adoption. However, seeing less tech-literate people feel as if they have to choose between an unsecured device and spending money they don't have on a new Windows 11 machine really makes me angry.
Most won't understand what no more security updates mean, and some overreact and get really worried.
Stop calling yourself a "refugee" whenever big tech fucks up something you were using. Anyone who thinks having to switch software is worthy of that word has no idea what it's like to be a refugee. Check your privileged ass.
For Years, you had the Option to use Linux. Since the release of the win 11 beta, Linux has not made any relevant big steps. The leopards have simply decided to eat your face this time.
A refugee would be someone losing their home in a bombing. A windows 10 turned Linux user is more like a Trump voter turned no kings protestor because he though sending the government emails will sure stop the anti trans laws.
And no, sOmE uSeRs hAvE tO uSe WinDoWs is not an argument. If everyone who was still on windows until now was reliant on it, why are they installing and switching to Linux? Every new Linux user is someone who was simply too ignorant to install it.
I worked for almost 2 years at a company with my Linux PC, until one day I requested a laptop for travel and they were shocked that I didn't had one, I asked for one with Linux but was told that that's not possible, that they only had windows laptops. I thought, okays this is temporary, as soon as I'm back from traveling I'll return the laptop and things will be back to normal... when I came back and wanted to return the laptop they said that that was my work computer that I should use for everything, I was like, "you do realize our work runs on a Linux server, right?". But nope, I had to use the Windows laptop until I quit a few months later. I knew of at least a couple other devs who were running Linux, but didn't say anything because then they would be forced to switch too, but at my exit interview I remarked that forcing me to use Windows was part of the reason I had left.
I guess my point is maybe don't make a big fuss and don't try to convince HR people about it, they just don't understand.
I work in IT (security). The reason they are so adamant on Windows at least in our place, is because it offers so many opportunities to go BOFH and lock everything down so much so the user can hardly do their job 😀 No other OS offers that, even Mac.
They think they need this to be secure. I beg to differ but unfortunately Microsoft is constantly feeding them with 'best practices' and other BS.
For Years, you had the Option to use Linux. Since the release of the win 11 beta, Linux has not made any relevant big steps.
I would argue it doesn't need to. It's pretty perfect these days as it is, especially with KDE (and the great thing about it having so much control over how your computer works and feels, Windows can never offer that).
Thats what I mean, in the last few weeks/months, there was no big thing that win users needed to be able to switch.
Linux in a vacuum is a great OS, and what it cant do in the context of Windows is more a „Proprietary formats and software being Industry standard” problem than a Linux problem.
I'm not saying that everyone should just abandon the standards , but that if you need to have these standards, nothing is going to change in a production envoirment that magically makes Linux work for you (in home you can argue about VMs and proton, but that's not a valid tactic for companies), and you need to keep using windows.
And the other way around, if you don't need any of these standards, you don't have any reason to still use Windows, except that you don't want to change.
Yeah and also, many of the drawbacks of windows don't really apply to companies. All the AI and MS account crap? Just switch it off in intune and M365 portal. Telemetry you can minimise with group policies. Crapware you can simply not install. It costs money? Sure but at a corp level so does Linux because they always want to pay a vendor so they can blame them when something goes wrong.
So we're bashing the people who installed Linux now if they used something else first? What, if they've ever used windows we should send them to the Gulag? Wtf is this take? Like hey you dumb fucking person who finally figured out how to get away from the corporate software you were taught to use in high school, you are FuCkInG iGnOrAnT for putting yourself in this position in the first place!!1!
Let's not talk about the multi billion dollar industry spent locking people into an ecosystem from day 1, because blaming high schoolers and teenagers for not switching to an OS best know for running web servers is an awesome use of our time.
Speaking from experience: no one thinks about operating systems as much as we do. We are not the norm. Most people don't want to use the computer to begin with, but conceded its faster than hand writing everything. The guy who paved my driveway will never install Arch, because he only uses the computer to get paid. My office's cleaner doesn't understand how computers can even be unsafe.
When I went to primary school we had windows computers. Same thing in high school. In uni, because I did comp sci, I used Linux and found it was better for me. 350 people went through first year with me. Most of them continued using Windows, although a good chunk used Mac too. Like 10 of us used Linux. It is easier not to switch and that's not going to change. So can we stop having a go at people for not having the same interests as us, because that's the only difference.
I'm not trying to insult you just make you and others laugh. Its kind of a stupid joke but maybe you are taking this place a bit too seriously. The world is fucked up we need a laugh sometimes. This is one of the only places on the internet where people would actually care about something like a refugee.
Being an edgelord on someone voicing an opinion about something serious can be construed as very unfunny, I don't know why you seem defensive, you are the troll in the situation.
No I'm not trolling and I'm not an edgelord. Many refugees sort of deserve what they get because they support authoritarian regimes. Go to Africa or the Middle East and you can't throw a rock without hitting someone who wants to genocide all gay people or people of other religions or something. It's not really an accident that they ended up in that situation, it's generations of shittiness and ignorance and immortality. Unfortunately the only way to be free is to arm yourself and educate yourself and fight for what is right. Nobody is going to give it to you. Nobody going to solve your problems for you. Those people who claim to care about your safety or something are just trying to use you because most humans are terrible.
I'm old enough to have seen this "flocking" several times. Some people stay and are pleasantly surprised. Most people go back a few weeks/months later, and leave a "Linux suxx" post behind them. I don't expect this time will be any different, and that's totally fine.
Many people will definitely go back, but the percentage staying might be better this time around. Linux has gotten a lot more usable and stable for those tech inclinced enough to be able to install it thanks in part to proton, immutable distros, flatpacks, Wayland, and improved defaults. Mint and bazzite are pretty darn good for daily use. I've never stayed on Linux as long as I have with this run, and I really don't feel much of a push to leave it. Most everything I want to do just works.
I agree, I notice more new blood around Linux compared to the previous "OMG, Micro$oft suxx, let's all ditch Windoze!1!!" craze (I guess it was Win8.1 -> Win10, maybe?)
many people will go back, but of these, i’m sure many will also come back eventually
i’ve tried a bunch of distros in my last 2 years with windows. many didn’t satisfy my needs at the time, so i stayed on windows.
but now, it’s been over a year since I definitely switched to linux, and over 6 months since i nuked (accidentally, but shhh) my windows partition. and i don’t plan on going back anytime soon.
Yeah it's been a long road for me to be fully Linux on my personal systems. I think I started messing with Linux circa 1997 and didn't switch over fully until I think Windows 7 went EoL.
right now im on Fedora KDE! it works well enough for me, it’s modern, it looks good, and most importantly (for me) it supports fractional scaling well (my laptop needs fractional scaling and that’s been the thorn in my foot for a while)
I love and hate bazzite. It's still what I use daily, but man is it weird. Just small little bugs, an it is an immutable os so that threw me off, couldn't do my wild an whacky project but atleast most everything worked right out of the box!
I’ve looked at Linux for years but it was always so intimidating to me. I finally installed it when my pc was being aged out of windows 10 and honestly it’s really fun to play around with even though I’m not super tech savvy. It’s easy enough to find a solution online if I run into any problems and everything is free!
This is usually the case, people make it a monster in their heads but it's not bad as long as you're willing to accept it's a different OS to be used differently.
But this time Linux actually plays video games right out of the box. No trickery. Just install steam and the rest of the experience is smooth as butter
this was so surprising to me; my favorite game (tropico) didn't have blinking tiles/polygons on my linux rig than it did on windows.
it was super strange because i put linux on my old windows laptop and it also got the blinking; but the game got better when i bought a linux-only laptop with zero proprietary stuff on it (not even the bios). go figure.
I agree. This time, it's actually different. Big name streamers and YouTubers are showing their support. Not just people in the tech industry, but random channels like EmKay and PewDiePie.
Linux is better than ever. Steam is a breeze. Wine support has never been better.
Meanwhile, Windows has more nasty surprises, underhanded backstabs, and security nightmares than ever before.
Ads. Steering me to store all my data in Microsoft’s cloud where they do (or inevitably will) scan it for profiling, AI training, government surveillance, etc. (which also annoyingly locks file handles when documents are open). Shoving AI into every product, even when it’s completely useless. Sunsetting useful products. Changing license terms for paid products, forcing subscriptions. Requiring online accounts only and eliminating workarounds. Removing features and replacing them with incomplete UI offering less control. Massive security holes. Annoying patch/upgrade system that interrupts me while I’m working. Flaky, bug ridden tools (Teams, etc) And updates that break hardware.
Yes, I find Linux terribly unusable on my laptop, way too many driver issues, hard to get into a secure state, and I miss apps like signal (no official build) mpc-hc (the replacements are all trash) and a functional version of thunderbird (lol at the tray icon third party implementation that just doesn't work). Etc, etc. I don't have a ton of unique needs but I do want theto work
^and this is of course with KDE, gnome is all that but with just a trash user interface. How many gestures do I need to use to make my computer treat me like an adult ffs.
It's still of course on my server (an old laptop which ironically can't be used as a laptop because at some point after some random update the login service broke and won't accept input from the keyboard lol) and other headless devices I don't have to actually use, thank god.
The signal org produces a debian-compatible package and an apt server. I suppose there are hoops to jump through to make that work reliably on other distros but by that point my interest in using Linux was dwindling. (I actually moved for the performance benefits which didn't materialize I think due to linux' piss poor memory handling -- I have a pretty low end laptop with only 16 gb of ram. the above we're all just issues along the way).
If you care to trust random strangers with your secure messenger that's a choice you can make (admittedly the desktop isn't particularly secure to begin with but even more reason to use the actual org's build imo). I'm sure christian heusel is very reputable.
I don't consider "wanting a secure app to be installed through first party means" to be particularly unusual. I know in Linux it's standard to just install random stuff from the internet with root. I've obviously done that myself, but for secure stuff I want first party. Making a flatpak wouldn't be hard (they probably just need to review someone else's work -- it's like an intern project)
So I went and looked it up, and signal-desktop is listed as a reproducible build, so theoretically you should be able to go and check that it conforms to the source
Please make sure all your drivers are up to date and your screen is set to the correct resolution because it seems to be that you’re missing the bigger picture.
“Underhanded backstab” being the correct expression or not aside=> W11 sucks ass imo, get mad if you want to. (Something tells me this isn’t about proper word choice for you though, but feel free to correct me on that if that is a thing you care about)
I mean your point may have been windows sucks ass but I'm aware of where I am and that's a completely uninteresting claim here. Why not rant about water being wet -- it's just as unique or interesting as your take on windows.
What I specifically asked about is underhanded backstabs, because that's a unique and interesting claim I haven't read 464335735 times before on lemmy.
Well, you’ll have to ask the person making that claim to begin with. I just added my take on the list of annoyances about W11.
I find your interest in the expression itself rather uninteresting. I do hope it goes without saying people say these things without meaning them literally.
All in all the step from W10 to W11 is such a letdown one might compare it to a backstab, underhanded or otherwise.
And with that I’m done defending an expression I didn’t use to begin with. Good day.
I think it's easily good enough for general use. It's only certain types of gamers (anti-cheat support is still pretty terrible), and people who are heavily attached to a specific Windows program that they spend a lot of time using, that will have trouble switching across full time. For everyone else, Linux is superior because it runs so much faster than the now incredibly bloated Windows. Depending on the distro, it's also arguably simpler than Windows too.
I think a lot of people expect Linux to work like Windows, and that's why they go back to Windows, even if some stuff is easier on Linux.
Many of us probably remember times when we tried to download random applications through a web browser, because that's what Windows expects you to do. People will try that, and be confused, why stuff breaks or not work at all.
I mean I love linux but the biggest hurdle is that certain software/games just aren't compatible. I use my pc for sim racing in vr a lot. With no ability to use iracing or my vr in linux I'm stuck. While I hate Windows and would prefer to use linux, I'm not going to abandon my hobby and all the equipment I have for it just to use an os I prefer. Throughout many different domains of use for a computer their are many different variations of stories like mine. Until the software and games people use can be supported in the linux ecosystem 'good enough' never happens. Like for basic computer use linux is already better than good enough its fantastic, it just works has intuitive user interfaces the bones of the OS are there. The problem is that many companies and software providers just aren't filling the gap that is the needs beyond basic web browsing, media playback and, playing older/indie games without anticheat. Without the substance people expect it doesnt matter how good the bones of the system are they are gonna be trapped in windows and linux will be stuck as the outcast programmers and enthusiasts use while knowing they have to still use windows for the niche use cases they have. And time and time again, eventually running 2 systems gets tiring and linix use/adoption slows back down again.
Let me guess, you might have tried Linux on n the past but only really started using Linux full time around 2021/2022, because every time I see someone saying "Linux only became user friendly around year X" is always around a 1 year mark after they started using it daily, because it's a lot more a matter of being used to than actual usability. I have been using KDE since 2004, and while things have changed it wasn't all that much, I don't remember any big usability refactor or anything of the sort happening, I'm fairly confident that if I were to put you to use a KDE 3.5 UI you would feel right at home.
I was one of those nomadic users, every year, since 1998 with Mandrake Linux.
I have always been in love with the idea of an open source OS, but if I couldn't game and work on it, it wasn't ready. Every year, until Valve made it easy to game on Linux.
I made the switch when Proton was released and never looked back.
My point is, every time users go back to Windows, they have their own personal reasons, but those will some day not be the truth anymore.
Gaming for me is the only thing I don't use Windows for. But for gaming I still do. Because I mainly game in VR and that's still so far behind on LInux 🙁
But I have 20 odd computers in the house so it's easy to have one with windows around (two in fact, another old one with Win 10 LTSC for programming some old radios).
I love KDE for all the options it gives 🫶 I don't like Gnome, Systemd and all the other redhat influences but they are easy to avoid these days.
Because I mainly game in VR and that's still so far behind on LInux 🙁
This is a major sticking point for me too. I've got a dusty Win10 partition I haven't booted in ages, and I was keeping it around mainly for VR, but then Microsoft had to go and just extinguish that too.
Monado is making impressive progress but it's a huge pain because they have to reverse engineer stuff with zero help from the manufacturers, instead of simply interfacing with the hardware.
I refuse to let Meta have any of my money though. I hope a good affordable VR kit comes out that isn't another hyper-proprietary blackbox.
my buddy wanted to switch from w10 to mint and i tried to recommend kubuntu because of wayland, i told him mint will be laggy because he has many screens with different refresh rates and mint can't handle that. he wouldn't listen, installed mint, and a few weeks later went back to w10 raging how linux suxx it's so laggy. could've just installed kubuntu but no, it had to be w10.
oh, always thought it was an x11 issue and affected AMD too. well anyway he's broke and he got a high-end nvidia gpu for next to nothing so I'm not going to even try to convince him to get another gpu
I've been trying to switch to Linux for at least 5 years. I wouldn't say it's any better now than it was then. I desperately want to love Linux, but it fights me at every step of the way. As a media pc... I have had zero success using it as a media pc. My one requirement is an on screen keyboard, but it doesn't come with one, and all the offerings I've found are shit. They won't work in some windows, or at all.
As a laptop... This has been the most successful. I've not had any real issues with Linux on various laptops, other than finding replacements for certain windows software, but that's not really a Linux problem.
As my main pc... Gaming has been fine. Hdr has only really recently become a thing, and it seems fine. However, I'm constantly coming across stupid things are ARE a Linux problem. Downloading and installing software has too many methods. I understand downloading a file to install something. I understand downloading a script to install something. I even understand why you'd need to make that script executable before it'll work. I don't understand what to do with a bunch of random files that claim to be an installer but don't seem to have an install script or a .deb package. I don't understand why once I map/mount a network drive, it fucking disappears after a reboot and needs to have the mount process be automated at every reboot.
Linux is just hostile to users. And while it is, it'll never massively succeed.
Same. I loathe Linux. I've been trying to use it since I was 19, periodically installing one distro or another, and I hate it. I absolutely hate it. I'm not saying it is bad or anything but I do not have the patience to fight with an OS over every tiny thing or having to look up a guide for every installation or having to double check what will work and won't because you're going to need a container.
Linux, I'm sure, is great but it's also one of the least user friendly operating systems out there, regardless of Distro. I keep trying to use Linux Mint and it keeps driving me up the fucking wall. Either Linux supports nothing without a battle or nothing supports Linux without a battle and I'm not remotely interested in fighting with my PC to do something simple. The second that that shit gets sorted is the second I'll be fine.
Well that is a weird experience. I can imagine having issues with one device or one or more applications, especially when trying to use windows software in Linux, but having to fight everything seems... Extreme.
Each person knows what it feels more comfortable with.
Linux is not inherently hostile, it just has a very different way of doing things that what you're accustomed, so you perceive it as hostile. It is sometimes easier for someone who never touched a computer to learn Linux that someone who grew with Windows to unlearn the habits.
There's nothing wrong with feeling comfortable in Windows, it's the system you grew up with and know how to work with and maintain.
Windows, starting with 8, is inherently hostile to its users in ways that are very difficult or impossible to mitigate. It's a black box of complicated machinery, a lot of which is trying to spy on you, steal your data, show you ads, upsell you on their stupid cloud services so that they can steal more of your data, etc. At this point, disabling all of this is really difficult and unreliable.
Linux on the other hand is like a box of spare parts that you can build whatever you want from. You really do need to read the manual, or else whatever you build will look and work like shit. However, if you do build something good, it's yours now in a way that a proprietary OS never will be.
For anyone wondering, linux offers over a dozen virtual keyboards and btw they aren't called on screen keyboards. All of them work great. And lots of distros come with one included.
I understand downloading a file to install something.
That's a terrible start. Software installation sources by priority: 1. Package Manager 2. Flatpak (Graphical utilities like Discover unite these two) 3. AppImages downloaded from the browser 4. Rpm/Deb packages downloaded from the browser, but really should be avoided 5. ONLY IF YOU REALLY KNOW YOUR SHIT YOU CAN RUN SCRIPTS TO INSTALL STUFF
You can add other stuff like toolbox after n.2 once you've got more experience.
Mint or any other ubuntu-derivative distro is 10000% the move. I've been running ubuntu as my os for a while now, and I've spent nearly the last decade on linux (makes me feel old saying that lol).
The other distros have a lot of strength, but at the end of the day i want to spend my time messing with things i want to mess with. I don't want random weird issues that I have to constantly debug, and everyone can agree that stability is debian's (and therefore ubuntu's) undisputed strength
If you are new I suggest bazzite, and get lutris to install windows apps outside of steam. It takes care of most of the stuff and to install software, on bazzite you use "sudo rpm-ostree install " and then reboot because bazzite uses an ostree system, or just get it in a flatpak if available. Between bazzite and knowing how to install packages outside of the flatpak repository, that should cover most of your bases for a few years and you can learn other stuff when you have the inclination. ChatGPT is really knowledgeable about Linux since it's open source. It's often much faster than digging through forums just be specific when you speak to it.
Also if you get your setup in a decent shape, you can shrink the partition and image it with dd with a single command, and then compress it to have a full system backup, which is basically your own image. Then you just write it back with a program like etcher later if you screw up your system and then just reexpand the partition to the full drive. If you get bazzite though you won't have much need to use the terminal or install anything outside flathub which will keep you from breaking the system. Also update the system occasionally, to get security fixes once a week or two is probably fine if you don't have open ports to run a server and aren't running random software.
Seriously, if I was new to Linux, coming from Windows, asking for a cheat sheet or Linux for dummies manual, everything you wrote would sound like absolute gibberish to me.
If this was someone's response to me when asking for advice I'd immediately reinstall windows where at least (from the perspective of a typical end user) they speak words that make sense.
It's the easiest way to get into Linux if you need good GPU support and I assume most people play video games. Bazzite is what finally got me into Linux because it mostly just worked out of the box which is something most Linux distros I tried before that never did. I would always end up breaking them in a day or two trying to get the GPU driver installed or something. Bazzite is really good for beginning users. Not the greatest for mid tier when you are trying to gain a deeper understanding because it replies heavily on containers and file system overlays.
Also you have to remember that for people who aren't ultra Linux nerds. It's an incredible amount of work to get Linux to work. It's often days of painful configuration and research per machine. This, and a lack of gaming support is the main reason I think most people avoid Linux, which is why I suggest bazzite, as the shit just works distro.
It seems to be okay for me, there is maybe a handful of things I install, and I don't want fedora so much as that's what bazzite is built on. If it breaks I'll just move on as I'm getting a bit more familiar with Linux. I will probably install Debian or mint or something with a much more simple file system when this one breaks.
Even though bazzite is fedora-based you're not really meant to interact with the fedora side of it all. At least that's the impression I've gotten from it.
I dont think it matters really for installing little programs. You probably shouldn't change your kernel or something. When you update the system it's just using rpm-ostree and doing a standard update through the repos, then it updates flatpaks. On the steamdeck since it's arch it will break pretty easily if you update the wrong thing, but bazzite is built in fedora.
The rpm-ostree systems is also good for anything that breaks because it's basically a snapshot system. Everytime you install something or update it creates a snapshot of your old working install which you can easily roll back to if anything breaks. You could use containers for stuff but that's not really necessary. It does probably make the system more stable in ways but then you have to deal with the headaches of using containers and having everything isolated from each other. For web services though containers are worth it as it greatly increases the security of the system.
Just ask people here, people just love anyone who switches over to Linux and want to learn about it. Because we actually love this operating system. Its so good.
When my kid started using Linux, once he knew how to start programs and install things, we went through where the files are on the file system and how to get there in a terminal. I think thats a good starting point so you understand the foundation of the system.
And then go though a basic Linux command line tutorial to learn about the common tools for listing files, filtering results, renaming and deleting files etc.
You can do that stuff in a graphical file manager too but you dont really get that understanding of how things work until you do it in the command line.
Depends on what you feel lost about, if it is the basics in general then I would suggest you start of and read about the basics here labex.io/linuxjourney they write about the very basics in a very simple way. I think they did a good job, they start of with what Linux is, what distros are to commands from the most basics as how to navigate in the terminal to more advanced combinations. They also have vms where you can try out the commands if you haven't switched yet.
If it is a cheat sheet as in commands then i would say it is better to make your own of the commands you care about but you can start of by using other ppls list like this one geeksforgeeks.org/linux-unix/l… but it can be overwhelming for you so use the linuxjouney first. Also it is very important to learn how to look up how to use the arguments in the terminal with man or -h to make it faster and less painful to use.
If you are lost about programs then there are a lot of good GitHub pages that links to useful programs and cli tools, you just need to search for awesome Linux list
When looking for programs is it very important that you know what distro you are on, what desktop environment (like kde, gnome, xfce) and what window composition you use (usually Wayland or x11, x11 is older and is more compatible).
For new ppl do I think Ubuntu based is best because almost everything has a Ubuntu version, when you feel ready can you test out other distros. I haven't tried bazzite, I started of many years ago on debian (a few random ones like arch and mint) and then pop os for many years and now cachyos, I liked my journey but that doesn't mean it is correct for others.
I would suggest to have all of your data you care about on a separate disk or have automatic backup of it so you can break your os without care. And if you start customizing would I suggest setting up a GitHub repo and commit your changes everytime you like what you see so it is easy to go back if you regret something.
I hoped this helped on your journey, I didn't want to overwhelm you so I hope I kept it simple enough 😁
Dude, I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and nowadays I barely need anything beyond what I do on Windows and Mac. Just remember that everything is a file lol
Thanks for that, I've saved your post for when I switch. My laptop runs windows 11 but I'm not enjoying the experience. Used linux a bit in the 90s but I've forgotten everything and will have to start from scratch. Yep, when I get some time I'm going to make the jump.
With most modern distros, I would say that most typical users shouldn't have to go to the command line any more than they had to in windows (which is to say very seldom).
Yet there is that lingering reputation that you have to be some sort of command line guru to even think about using Linux- and that simply isn't true. Hasn't been true for decades.
This is true, but I think it is good to know the basics because sometimes is it easier just like it can be easier in Mac and windows.
I think it is good to know about the tools you have so you can do the best decisions for your use case.
But like you said the terminal is not a must (for most) so if you feel uncomfortable about it then the terminal is not a reason to not switch to Linux.
Glad I could be of help! Knowing the basics about the terminal (cli) will help you a lot with your raspberrypi when you wish to fix/change/do things on the fly. I often use ssh to connect to mine to do stuff from my phone haha
For all their faults, LLMs are pretty damn good at basic trouble shooting of Linux. Ideally prepare context for them with installation details. Use CLI client, recommend opencode CLI, plan agent is good to inspect the commands it will plan to run and let's you inspect and think through what it is doing. Can also ask for clarifications along the way.
Honestly, if you go that route I'd probably recommend using an LLM only for information and asking questions, but run commands yourself and actually read it's responses. If you don't understanding something, ask for elaboration. Otherwise, you risk too much automation, letting it set up configurations you don't have actual understanding of and making a spaghettified mess.
I've been a Windows user since 95. I tried a few times to move to Linux, but basic user unfriendly problems always brought me back to Windows. Now there's no option to go back. Linux Mint has had some bumps, but I'm properly motivated to jump over those hurdles now. I've become a proud Linux user this last week. Finally free of Microsoft's gravity.
I've been on Mint for 2 years now. So far the only roadblock I've hit is my obsolete audio interface not talking to it, and that's not Mint's fault. Everything else was a seamless transition for me. I will admit that I'm not super enthusiastic about GIMP though. Welcome to the club.
It's a laptop. Really I just need to buy a slightly newer interface. My old one was running in Windows 10 with a Windows 7 legacy driver. I haven't been bit by the recording bug lately so it hasn't mattered. I've been focusing on playing badly around campfires instead. Eventually I will get around to it. My list of hobbies is stupid long.
Right on. It's mostly the 1/4" and XLR inputs that I need. I should have picked something up by now, I just haven't. I'm sure Uli has something available that'll talk to Linux.
Aww, man alive. Most perfect desktop environment I've seen in years, and then it's a full OS rather than just a DE. Had been looking in the ArchWiki for how to install it and everything.
I remember someone on Discord server I used to be on kept telling people to "use Linux" which back then, I thought it was some scary OS for people who's tech savvy and wrote him off to be annoying. It was few years when I have my own laptop as early birthday present that I find Windows 10 annoying and remembered Linux exist so I run up a virtual machine and watch so many videos on YouTube about it. Then, I made USB-Boot and installed Linux Mint.
Far from perfect but I feel so much more comfortable using Linux over Windows, feels so much more smoother
As a Linux Noob, Linux was lot easier than I expect it to be. Think it was me having the "This isn't Windows so I might as well as research about anything Linux related" mindset which it paid off for me. It got to point where Windows is now my secondary OS (Mainly to use it to use Tomb Editor to make custom Tomb Raider levels which is annoying to get it running with Wine which I don't know how to troubleshoot at all.)
It's ironic how it's now my main OS and if you told me several years ago that I would be mostly using Linux, I would think you're talking total nonsense.
I think installing Linux exposes you to higher severity issues, like "now it won't boot". Once you get over that initial setup, it's not much different than windows or apple.
If more computers came with it pre installed, it would be even easier for folks.
I think about half the time I've installed Linux it was fine. The other half were problems with esoteric solutions.
I'm really enjoying the learning curve with Linux because it's a valuable skill to master. On the other hand, every time I've had to "go under the hood" with Windows, it's been to keep it from doing something awful to me.
I hope this doesn't mean the enshitifcaiton of Linux as we start to cater for people who don't want to learn.... We watched it with Microsoft products, though they also had a profitable reason to nerf their software.
Being simple to use out of the box is NOT a bad thing on its own. We are simply used to seeing the proprietary profit-driven version, which is the path to enshittification. When something works great out of the box but you still own your machine and have access to any damn thing you want that's hidden from view by default, that is just a good product.
I've been an engineer in electronics and software for over 20 years. I have a masters in software engineering. I currently work on C and C++ code every day for embedded systems, including one that's embedded linux. The terminal is my comfort zone. Screens full of super-legible monospaced text please my eyes.
I run Linux Mint Cinnamon (btw) on every computer of mine, even my work machine, and I don't care who knows it!
I recommend it to anybody of any skill level who will listen.
It doesn't have to. KDE is a great example here. Out of the box, it's extremely simple to use, as well as familiar in look and feel to Windows. But if you want to - it gives you a lot of customization options. So it doesn't seem to lose out on anything due to being simplified by default.
And frankly, a lot of Unix software could use a similar approach. I know it's not that simple, but it helps the users greatly - particularly new ones, but experienced ones too. Perhaps this wave of Windows refugees will in some way lead to progress in this area.
My biggest concern is the whole "removing powerful features = user friendliness!" mentality that these big tech companies have been pushing for years.
Why make users smarter when you can make software worse and charge more for it?
The dummies don't get the bigger picture, they just see "nobody needs powerful features that make things too confusing for me!" My hope is that they don't flood Linux with this drivel - profit margin or not, it's a toxic cultre that has already been created in commercial software.
oh yeah this is a fantastic language learning tool
(although it can bring up problems with tonal languages like Vietnamese, Thai, Mandarin, Cantonese, etc where the lyrics often abandon the words' inherent tones and follow the song melody instead. )
I have lrcget run on my library to grab missing lyrics each night and use Symfonium for listening and displaying the lyrics. If I need to, I go out to Genius.
I tried a lot of them. SongSync was the only app that gave me decent results. It can download synced lyrics like you want, but it depends on the lyrics provider. Spotify doesn't work, Apple does but kinda broken. Stick to the other options.
I often think about how much energy we waste because our hardware is fast enough to allow for software bloat. The dynamics of capitalism select for making software that's just good enough to use and can be pushed out cheaply and quickly, meanwhile hardware companies benefit from software bloat because it allows them to sell new chips. If the dynamic was different, we would have far more efficient software stacks that would require a lot less power to run. If you scale it up to billions of users globally, it translates to an incredible amount of energy saving. It's another example of how capitalist incentives lead to horrendous inefficiency.
You're obviously not wrong on the relationships between these variables. There's however use value in just-good-enough, easy-to-write, bloated software in that it could enable value creation and higher efficiency elsewhere. E.g. a shitty, power-hungry computer vision program that frees up 20 people from doing visual quality inspection of parts in a factory. These people can then do the manual work needed on additional lines, thus increasing the labour efficiency and output of the factory, and lowering the cost of the production per unit. Which frees up resources elsewhere in the economy, increasing the effect. All of which could more than offset the inefficiency of the original program and then some. Of course capitalism won't necessarily select for these use cases for bloat. More likely than not we're producing bloat that doesn't offset anything. But in a non-capitalist environment, such bloat might very well be desired. Especialy if you're trying to develop at speed that allows you to create deterrents before the US decides to liberate you from non-capitalism.
I completely agree, it's not always black and white and there are plenty of cases where having inefficient software is better than not having anything at all. My main complaint is that the mechanics of the system select for bloat, and there's little incentive to go back and optimize things. In a sane system you could make something that's inefficient first, and then spend time to make it better if it becomes widely used. To a certain extent, we see this happening with open source stuff like Linux, where you can have a very lean system compared to commercial alternatives.
Well there's definitely socialist dynamics in FOSS development. Most drivers in the Linux kernel were implemented because someone needed them, not for profit. The same is true for most things in the Debian repository. Also people generally own the means of producing that software. How do proprietary systems produced to maximize profit compete with software written to just work and cost nothing? FOSS is doing software product dumping! 😁 And the rest of the software economy has grown tremendously as a result. Imagine having to pay good money for a compiler. There were huge barriers back in the day.
Most recent news about AI seems to involve staggering amounts of money. OpenAI and Nvidia sign a $100b data center contract. Meta offers researchers $100m salaries. VCs invested almost $200b in AI …
Ethiopia started talks with China to convert at least part of the $5.38 billion it owes Beijing into yuan-denominated loans, following an example set by Kenya that bolsters China’s efforts to internationalize its currency.
And so Peter Navarro (remember him?) got hold of the monkey’s paw, and he said, “I wish we didn’t have a trade deficit with China,” and then the finger curled over.
[from Cuba In Context - weekly newsletter of the BellyOfTheBeast news/video collective]
Cuba has released its annual report on the impact of U.S. sanctions on the island's economy. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the damages amount to $7.5 billion, the single biggest loss in a year since Cuba began issuing these reports.
Also: * Farm near Havana pioneers #agroecology * Cuba wins gold at the Tokyo Athletics World Championships * Almost 1,000 same-sex marriages in Cuba last year * Cuban reggaeton artist returns home after emigrating to #US * Cuba extends tax exemptions on medicine and food imports * Millions of Cubans struggle to get water
[from Cuba In Context - weekly newsletter of the BellyOfTheBeast news/video collective]
Cuba has released its annual report on the impact of U.S. sanctions on the island's economy. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the damages amount to $7.5 billion, the single biggest loss in a year since Cuba began issuing these reports.
Also: * Farm near Havana pioneers #agroecology * Cuba wins gold at the Tokyo Athletics World Championships * Almost 1,000 same-sex marriages in Cuba last year * Cuban reggaeton artist returns home after emigrating to #US * Cuba extends tax exemptions on medicine and food imports * Millions of Cubans struggle to get water
[from Cuba In Context - weekly newsletter of the BellyOfTheBeast news/video collective]
Cuba has released its annual report on the impact of U.S. sanctions on the island's economy. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the damages amount to $7.5 billion, the single biggest loss in a year since Cuba began issuing these reports.
Also: * Farm near Havana pioneers #agroecology * Cuba wins gold at the Tokyo Athletics World Championships * Almost 1,000 same-sex marriages in Cuba last year * Cuban reggaeton artist returns home after emigrating to #US * Cuba extends tax exemptions on medicine and food imports * Millions of Cubans struggle to get water
[from Cuba In Context - weekly newsletter of the BellyOfTheBeast news/video collective]
Cuba has released its annual report on the impact of U.S. sanctions on the island's economy. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the damages amount to $7.5 billion, the single biggest loss in a year since Cuba began issuing these reports.
Also: * Farm near Havana pioneers #agroecology * Cuba wins gold at the Tokyo Athletics World Championships * Almost 1,000 same-sex marriages in Cuba last year * Cuban reggaeton artist returns home after emigrating to #US * Cuba extends tax exemptions on medicine and food imports * Millions of Cubans struggle to get water
[from Cuba In Context - weekly newsletter of the BellyOfTheBeast news/video collective]
Cuba has released its annual report on the impact of U.S. sanctions on the island's economy. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the damages amount to $7.5 billion, the single biggest loss in a year since Cuba began issuing these reports.
Also: * Farm near Havana pioneers #agroecology * Cuba wins gold at the Tokyo Athletics World Championships * Almost 1,000 same-sex marriages in Cuba last year * Cuban reggaeton artist returns home after emigrating to #US * Cuba extends tax exemptions on medicine and food imports * Millions of Cubans struggle to get water
You are going to fuck this up. Don't come crawling back to me when you lose all your data since the dawn of time and you completely brick this goddamn computer. This is your one and only warning.
With this ~~character's~~ file's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a ~~saved game~~ backup to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.
I would argue is less secure because there's more potential for signals to be intercepted, and you are only in control of a portion of the network (the other half being in control of your service provider)
When you're on you're own Wi-Fi you're usually much closer to your access point and in your home where you control the network (which has less range) and the space around it.
Either way the difference is minimal as both can be intercepted and attacked
Decrypting the 4g/5g network will require a key from the telecommunications company. I argue it's insignificantly less secure because a malicious actor can intercept it and decrypt it if they manage to steal the key from the company.
Practically, only your government would be able to get a copy of the key. But they'd also be able to watch your actual cable internet as well. And when your government gets interested in you then you fucked all the way up.
Say you access a VPN located over seas from your phone while on mobile data. Then your traffic is encrypted and your mobile data provider (for your phone) should only see traffic to one IP address.
Say you access the same VPN while at home connect to wifi or Ethernet on a PC (or on your phone), then your ISP should only see traffic to the one IP address (that's located over seas).
Now let's say your are tech savvy enough to run a Wireguard setup and or Tailscale setup at home and make your own VPN. Then you access that from work or from overseas with a mobile phone or laptop. All your traffic should now show as connecting to your homes IP address directly, but keep in mind your home ISP provider then sees you connecting to sites like Google, Facebook, or Lemmy.
Using a VPN makes the original question redundant. The VPN would have everything super encrypted for either home wifi or home 4g/5g. Your question transforms into "can i trust this vpn company"
It's going to depend on what types of data you are looking to protect, how you have your wifi configured, what type of sites you are accessing and whom you are willing to trust.
To start with, if you are accessing unencypted websites (HTTP) at least part of the communications will be in the clear and open to inspection. You can mitigate this somewhat with a VPN. However, this means that you need to implicitly trust the VPN provider with a lot of data. Your communications to the VPN provider would be encrypted, though anyone observing your connection (e.g. your ISP) would be able to see that you are communicating with that VPN provider. And any communications from the VPN provider to/from the unencrypted website would also be in the clear and could be read by someone sniffing the VPN exit node's traffic (e.g. the ISP used by the VPN exit node) Lastly, the VPN provider would have a very clear view of the traffic and be able to associate it with you.
For encrypted websites (HTTPS), the data portion of the communications will usually be well encrypted and safe from spying (more on this in a sec). However, it may be possible for someone (e.g. your ISP) to snoop on what domains you are visiting. There are two common ways to do this. The first is via DNS requests. Any time you visit a website, your browser will need to translate the domain name to an IP address. This is what DNS does and it is not encrypted by default. Also, unless you have taken steps to avoid it, it likely your ISP is providing DNS for you. This means that they can just log all your requests, giving them a good view of the domains you are visiting. You can use something like DNS Over Https (DOH), which does encrypt DNS requests and goes to specific servers; but, this usually requires extra setup and will work regardless of using your local WiFi or a 5g/4g network. The second way to track HTTPS connections is via a process called Server Name Identification (SNI). In short, when you first connect to a web server your browser needs to tell that server which domain it wants to connect to, so that the server can send back the correct TLS certificate. This is all unencrypted and anyone inbetween (e.g. your ISP) can simply read that SNI request to know what domains you are connecting to. There are mitigations for this, specifically Encrypted Server Name Identification (ESNI), but that requires the web server to implement it, and it's not widely used. This is also where a VPN can be useful, as the SNI request is encrypted between your system and the VPN exit node. Though again, it puts a lot of trust in the VPN provider and the VPN provider's ISP could still see the SNI request as it leaves the VPN network. Though, associating it with you specifically might be hard.
As for the encrypted data of an HTTPS connection, it is generally safe. So, someone might know you are visiting lemmy.ml, but they wouldn't be able to see what communities you are reading or what you are posting. That is, unless either your device or the server are compromised. This is why mobile device malware is a common attack vector for the State level threat actors. If they have malware on your device, then all the encryption in the world ain't helping you. There are also some attacks around forcing your browser to use weaker encryption or even the attacker compromising the server's certificate. Though these are likely in the realm of targeted attacks and unlikely to be used on a mass scale.
So ya, not exactly an ELI5 answer, as there isn't a simple answer. To try and simplify, if you are visiting encrypted websites (HTTPS) and you don't mind your mobile carrier knowing what domains you are visiting, and your device isn't compromised, then mobile data is fine. If you would prefer your home ISP being the one tracking you, then use your home wifi. If you don't like either of them tracking you, then you'll need to pick a VPN provider you feel comfortable with knowing what sites you are visiting and use their software on your device. And if your device is compromised, well you're fucked anyway and it doesn't matter what network you are using.
If it's from a random thief, both are about equality secure, they rely on proven cryptographic methods.
If it's from somebody powerful enough to make an ISP bend the knee, then they are equally insecure because those cryptographic methods assume you trust the underlying infrastructure. If you do not though, then yes using a VPN will help as you are adding your own level of encryption on top.
I use a Windows VM for apps not available on Linux and just want to cut out all the telemetry possible.
AtlasOS is installed as a Ameliorated Playbook and makes a ton of opinionated changes that aren’t privacy or necessarily performance related. Disabling the Windows 11 right click menus in favor of the legacy one, disabling window shadows, changing the wallpaper, etc. Privacy+ looks appealing, I wanna know if anyone has tried both and can tell me differences, like if one or the other improves privacy more.
Could you please use the cross-post feature instead of making a separate post in each community? That way our front-ends can consolidate multiple cross-posts into one post instead of it being listed multiple times.
Honestly, doing it your way looks like spam. This is what I see in my feed:
Oh sorry, I had heard that was fixed awhile ago but apparently not.
What I don't like about lemmy crossposts is having the whole post text inside block quotes, and sometimes isn't formatted properly. I think that and showing a link to the original post is bad design, like why would it matter if a post is a crosspost or not?
With the fourth plenary session of the 20th Communist Party of China Central Committee scheduled on Monday to review proposals for the 15th Five-Year Plan (2026-2030), it is an opportune moment to reflect on how the country has navigated its developm…
CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour apologized Monday after claiming that Israeli hostages freed from Hamas captivity were “treated better” than Gazans — remarks that provoked furious backlash from Israel supporters.
The longtime international correspondent retracted her statement on air just hours after Hamas released the final 20 living hostages under a cease-fire agreement brokered by the United States and Egypt.
Amanpour’s mea culpa came after she earlier told CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins that the hostages “were probably being treated better than the average Gazan, because they are the pawns and the chips that Hamas had.”
“That was insensitive, and it was wrong,” Amanpour said during a broadcast on Monday.
CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour apologized Monday after claiming that Israeli hostages freed from Hamas captivity were “treated better” than Gazans — remarks that provoked furious backlash from Israel supporters.
The longtime international correspondent retracted her statement on air just hours after Hamas released the final 20 living hostages under a cease-fire agreement brokered by the United States and Egypt.
Amanpour’s mea culpa came after she earlier told CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins that the hostages “were probably being treated better than the average Gazan, because they are the pawns and the chips that Hamas had.”
“That was insensitive, and it was wrong,” Amanpour said during a broadcast on Monday.
She was not wrong, it was completely factual. But she was harassed by the Zionist lobby group ''Honest"Reporting' and then pressured by her Zionist bosses at CNN to cave.
Speaking basic truths on Israel's barbarity is not allowed in Western media. Only Palestinians may be dehumanised.
I like NYPost for these posts, because they are so pro-Israel that they sometimes publish these headlines without the propaganda sauce on them, thinking anti-Israel folks will interpret it the same way.
LLMs totally choke on long context because of that O(n2) scaling nightmare. It's the core scaling problem for almost all modern LLMs because of their self-attention mechanism.
In simple terms, for every single token in the input, the attention mechanism has to look at and calculate a score against every other single token in that same input.
So, if you have a sequence with n tokens, the first token compares itself to all n tokens. The second token also compares itself to all n tokens... and so on. This means you end up doing n*n, or n^2, calculations.
This is a nightmare because the cost doesn't grow nicely. If you double your context length, you're not doing 2x the work; you're doing 2^2=4x the work. If you 10x the context, you're doing 10^2=100x the work. This explodes the amount of computation and, more importantly, the GPU memory needed to store all those scores. This is the fundamental bottleneck that stops you from just feeding a whole book into a model.
Well, DeepSeek came up with a novel solution to just stop feeding the model text tokens. Instead, you render the text as an image and feed the model the picture. It sounds wild, but the whole point is that a huge wall of text can be "optically compressed" into way, way fewer vision tokens.
To do this, they built a new thing called DeepEncoder. It’s a clever stack that uses a SAM-base for local perception, then a 16x convolutional compressor to just crush the token count, and then a CLIP model to get the global meaning. This whole pipeline means it can handle high-res images without the GPU just melting from memory activation.
And the results are pretty insane. At a 10x compression ratio, the model can look at the image and "decompress" the original text with about 97% precision. It still gets 60% accuracy even at a crazy 20x compression. As a bonus, this thing is now a SOTA OCR model. It beats other models like MinerU2.0 while using fewer than 800 tokens when the other guy needs almost 7,000. It can also parse charts into HTML, read chemical formulas, and understands like 100 languages.
The real kicker is what this means for the future. The authors are basically proposing this as an LLM forgetting mechanism. You could have a super long chat where the recent messages are crystal clear, but older messages get rendered into blurrier, lower-token images. It's a path to unlimited context by letting the model's memory fade, just like a human's.
That's a really clever, interesting solution. DeepSeek seems to be leaning hard into optimization and efficiency where other AI companies are just throwing more money at more hardware.
Honestly effenciy, more hardware options and federated are the only real AI advancements that makes huge waves to me. Like getting a reasonable output out of a hundreds of billion dollar DC just isn't as cool as: your PC, phone, toaster can now do xyz or contribute to xyz
Yeah, I'm mostly excited about LLMs that can be run locally. And it really does look like there's a lot more optimizing that can happen going forward. Stuff like this is also really exciting. It'd be pretty amazing if we get to the point where models that perform as well as current 600+ billion parameter ones could run on a phone.
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Want to wade into the sandy surf of the abyss? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)
Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 19th October 2025
Want to wade into the sandy surf of the abyss? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)
Simon Willison writes a fawning blog post about the new "Claude skills" (which are basically files with additional instructions for specific tasks for the bot to use)
How does he decide to demonstrate these awesome new capabilities?
By making a completely trash, seizure inducing GIF...
He even admits it's garbage. How do you even get to the point that you think that's something you want to advertise? Even the big slop monger companies manage to cherry pick their demos.
Anthropic this morning introduced Claude Skills, a new pattern for making new abilities available to their models: Claude can now use Skills to improve how it performs specific tasks. Skills …
In March 2016, someone conjectured on math stackexchange, in a 1-point question, that “Any entire function without zero is constant”. People quickly responded with the obvious counterexample of the exponential function, and explained why the OP’s argument failed.
But in October 2025, if you do a Google search for “non-zero complex function” its AI nonsense tells you, based on that obscure math stackexchange page, that:
“... a key theorem states that any entire (differentiable everywhere) function that is never zero must be constant, often written as f(z) = e^g(z) for some other entire function g(z), notes MathOverflow and Mathematics Stack Exchange.”
FFS Google, turn off this garbage generator and just link to entire pages people can read and assess for themselves, and which (if you put some effort into making your ranking algorithms work *against* the SEO spam and the AI slop) might have a decent chance of being accurate.
I'm starting to suspect that mathematics is not an emergent skill of language models. Formally, given a fixed set of hard mathematical questions, it doesn't appear that increasing training data necessarily improves the model's ability to generate valid proofs answering those questions. There could be a sharp divide between memetically-trained models which only know cultural concepts and models like Gödel machines or genetic evolution which easily generate proofs but have no cultural awareness whatsoever.
Kind of a ramble: So, I’ve been out in the wild recently. I use discord and have noticed that in most of the servers I’m in, either they have an explicit no-genAI policy or quarantined sections where genAI content is allowed. On one podcast’s server, I posted a complaint about some genAI content that was posted to the podcast’s socials, and the embed was removed because it showed the genAI content- 10/10, love to see it. On another server, I figured out that the channel was created specifically because they had a sealion problem but didn’t want to ban their sealion (it appeared to be just one).
An interesting (read: stupid) thing about this sealion was that they are a self-styled leftist that was pro-AI. I won’t try to replicate any of their nonsense here, because A) it was nonsense stemming from a refusal to believe any anti-AI data and a lack of understanding of how LLMs work, and B) I don’t want to look like I’m posting about some kind of argument I had elsewhere here in order to score internet points, as I’m self aware/anxious enough to know that I sound exactly like that right now.
They posted this recent article written by Peter Coffin. There isn’t much about this guy on the internet. All I can gather is that they are some kind of breadtuber or in the breadtube orbit. It’s funny (read: farcical) to see a person posing as leftist say they are “pro-AI” but “anti-AI industry”. Either they don’t understand how the technology works (i.e. ignorant) or are accelerationist, wanting both the destruction of the environment and art (i.e. wilfully stupid)
Anyway, this exploration has shown me that some leftists don’t support copyright protections. I understand that from a couple different perspectives: 1. The main beneficiaries of copyright protections are large media corporations, and 2. it can be interpreted as trying to capitalistically extract fictional value, much like a landlord charging rent. I’m not trying to debunk this (I don’t think I’m representing this well enough). My thought is that I don’t give a shit about corporations losing money, what I care about is the work of individual artists being under/de-valued. Copyrights are an imperfect method that artists use to try seek justice, so it’s a grey area for me. Coffin in the article linked paints the situation as black and white: anyone who tries to stop someone “stealing” is actually rent seeking, whether or not they are a megacorp or a starving artist. (edit) I think this comes from Coffin's "extremely pro-AI" agenda, i.e., being anti-AI is enough to be reductively lumped together under some conspiratorial pro-capitalist agenda.
End of ramble, sorry that there wasn’t much of a point or structure here. Would love to hear any thoughts that come out from reading this.
E: note that is posted as a common criticism of Coffin.
E2: ::: spoiler re: video above: I really didn't know about this before writing that edit. I did some more reading. Coffin is something of a pick-me internet guy, his entire personality crystallised by that video. He's moved from internet trend to internet trend, one of note being gamergate, formerly anti, now pro (yes, as of 2024). He also did rap parodies? Anyway this isn't about him. :::
[Copyright i]s not for you who love to make art and prize it for its cultural impact and expressive power, but for folks who want to trade art for money.
I wanted to point out something else: that our world consists increasingly of nothing but large numbers (also known as bitstreams), and that - for reasons having nothing to do with emergent properties of the numbers themselves - the legal system is presently committed to treating similar numbers radically differently. No one can tell, simply by looking at a number that is 100 million digits long, whether that number is subject to patent, copyright, or trade secret protection, or indeed whether it is "owned" by anyone at all. So the legal system we have - blessed as we are by its consequences if we are copyright teachers, Congressmen, Gucci-gulchers or Big Rupert himself - is compelled to treat indistinguishable things in unlike ways.
New research coordinated by the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) and led by the BBC has found that AI assistants – already a daily information gateway for millions of people – routinely misrepresent news content no matter which language, territory, or AI platform is tested. [...] 45% of all AI answers had at least one significant issue.
31% of responses showed serious sourcing problems – missing, misleading, or incorrect attributions.
20% contained major accuracy issues, including hallucinated details and outdated information.
Gemini performed worst with significant issues in 76% of responses, more than double the other assistants, largely due to its poor sourcing performance.
And yet the BBC still has a Programme Director for "Generative AI" who gets trotted out to say "We want these tools to succeed". No, we don't, you blithering bellend.
My fundamental concern with regard to how much voting control I have at Tesla is, if I go ahead and build this enormous robot army, can I just be ousted at some point in the future?
If we build this robot army, do I have at least a strong influence over this robot army? Not control, but a strong influence … I don't feel comfortable building that robot army unless I have a strong influence.
I’m sure this is fine, largely because he is an idiot. Probably bad news for other shareholders and customers though.
Anyone else getting “when I die, you’re all joining me in my mausoleum” vibes from musk?
note how it mentions nearly absolute fucking nothing about the supporting cast. about storage and networking, about interface capabilities, what kind of programmatic runtimes you could have! none of it. just gonna yeet a sat into space, problem solved! space DCs!
compute! in space! "what do you mean 'compute what'? compute!" I hear, as the jackass rapidly packs up their briefcase and starts edging towards the door. who needs to care about getting data to and from such a device? it'll run Gemma![0] magic!
SAR, in particular, generates lots of data — about 10 gigabytes per second, according to Johnston — so in-space inference would be especially beneficial when creating these maps.
scan-time "inference", like you'd definitely know every parameter you'd want to query and every result you'd want to have, first-time, at scan! there's a fucking reason this shit gets turned into datasets, and that the tooling around processing it is as extensive as it is.
and, again, this leaves aside all the other practical problems. of which there are many. even just the following ones should make you wince: launch, maintenance, power, heat dissipation (vacuum is an insulator!), repair, (usable) lifetime, radiation. and that's before even touching on the nuances in those, or going further on the list
good god.
I guess the one good bit here is that it isn't the "we're gonna micromachine them in orbit!" bullshit fantasy, but I bet that's not far behind
[0] - "multimodal and wide language support" so literally a Local LLM, but that means it needs... input... and... response... which again goes back to all those pesky "interaction" and "network" and "storage" questions.
The NVIDIA Inception startup projects that space-based data centers will offer 10x lower energy costs and reduce the need for energy consumption on Earth.
Currently a novelty at this point, but could prove useful to make the likes of Iocaine and Nepenthes more effective - especially since the paper notes:
the damage is multifaceted in changing the reasoning patterns and is persistent against large-scale post-hoc tuning.
It does also suggest doing some actual quality control to prevent damage to the LLMs, but that sure ain't happening
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Calling someone out for fascist ideology is seen as "harassment" by the Framework team. Enjoy the Nazi bar, Nirav.
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MNT Reform's doing a similar thing to Framework, but its nowhere near what they offered. The team is completely free of venture capital, and its got a non-binary head representing it, so it should be safe from a fashtech turn.
The ITUC has released a new report on the impacts of artificial intelligence (AI) on working people, with a clear call for trade unions to be fully involved in shaping how AI is deployed and regulated.
Lunedì 20 ottobre 2025 un maxi-down ha colpito numerose piattaforme globali a causa di problemi ai server di Amazon Web Services (AWS). Il disservizio, partito dal cloud di Amazon, ha generato interruzioni e rallentamenti a catena su applicazioni consumer e strumenti professionali in tutto il mondo, con oltre duemila segnalazioni registrate negli Stati Uniti e problemi di navigazione segnalati anche in Italia.
wine updated to bleeding edge
dxvk updated to latest git
vkd3d-proton updated to latest git
wine-wayland/em-10 patches updated
fixed news not loading in black desert online (revert GL/VK patch in e...
Iran’s Foreign Ministry spokesman has strongly condemned the Israeli regime's mistreatment of a rights activist who stood in solidarity with the Palestinian people, describing its actions as “cruel, inhuman and degrading.”
Esmail Baghaei made the remarks in a post on X, referring to reports that Israel “tortured and sexually humiliated” Greta Thunberg.
He cited Thunberg’s recent interview with a Swedish newspaper, in which the young activist described being violently assaulted during a protest.
“They grab me, pull me to the ground, and throw an Israeli flag over me,” Thunberg was quoted as saying.
The spokesman said Israel’s behavior reflects a deliberate effort to instill fear and suppress dissent amid its genocide in Gaza.
I agree but to what end?They revel in their disgusting image and everyone organizers included knew no food would get thru. Many of the groups involved are opposed to the Palestinian rssistance that inflicts the more important blood losses on the entjty
There are some that still give Israel the benefit of the doubt and showing that a humanitarian flotilla trying to deliver aid are kidnapped in international waters, strips away that.
Israel has, and will always be a piece of shit and definitely revel in it, but those who stand on the sidelines with their "two sides" arguments are now shown that they are morally complicit
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Iran has a complicated history having been one of the first and most progressive nations in the middle east.
They started a democratic parliament in 1906. Mandatory hijab was banned at some point in the 1930s. Women were educated and active in the professional sectors like lawyers and doctors in the following decades. Their royal family (shah) was still around but with decreasing authority, similar to many democratic European countries today.
Then a democratic elected leader wanted to nationalise oil the oil industry pissing off the UK and US
Operating Ajax was a CIA/MI6 lead coup that overthrew the democracy and reestablished the dictatorship of the shah with extended power.
In return for giving them a large share of the denationalisation oil they even helped train a secret police.
This helped fuel an anti-west sentiment as the shah was considered a western puppet. Actual progressive Political opposition got crushed making religion the primary public voice of dissent.
This turmoil ends in the islamic revolution and republic that dominates that eventually reversed all the progressive laws and brought back a mandated hijab for women.
These regime still rules today but you would be mistaken to consider them real representatives of the people. The majority of women today are still educated. Since a protest a few years ago there is mass civil disobedience, especially in big cities.
In effect 2025 the government of Iran has lost legitimacy towards the people but they still enjoy lots of military might to maintain their technical position.
It might be fair to say that some religious people in power would still wish to invoke their views on all women and make this argument in spite of the Irsael-US/UK connections but to equate that to the nation/people of iran is inaccurate.
You're talking about Mahsa Amini who was murdered by morality police after being arrested for not wearing a hijab, which was already part of a wider trend inside the country.
Iran crushed the subsequent protests by killing 500 people and arresting over 20,000. But amazingly enough, that event appears to have led to more women not wearing the hijab.
A growing number of Iranian women and girls have stopped wearing the hijab in public, despite the threat of arrest and imprisonment. Women say the move has transformed the streets of major cities in Iran.
Let's not act as if Iran is so supportive of human rights as they happily string up activists on cranes to then slowly hang them tontortur them to death
Gay? String em up or throw them from a high building
Female and your hair is a little too visible? Don't worry, morality police will be here soon to torture you to death
Great way to rant about technicalities and entirely miss the point that pretty much all islamic countries typically are extremely hostile to LGBT, and Iran in particular, lethal.
But oh noes, that particular method of execution actually does not happen in Iran! WHO FUCKING CARES? That is not the point.
You probably are too young to remember the news articles of crane companies having to find out that their products are used for public executions. Being gay or an activist in Iran is simply a very bad idea
Justifying imperialism with a touch of islamophobia by parroting western foreign policy in the name of LGBT rights, despite western countries having persistent homophobia
What the fuck are you even talking about? Are you high or off medication or are you just that naive to think that being gay in the middle east is a good idea? Are you one of those crazies that keep on going how well the gays are tested in Islam and that Islam really does embrace the gay? Or moreso, that gays are treated worse in the west than they are in islamic countries? Come on, you can't be THAT daft.
How far down did you go down what hole, I wonder...
But leave it up to types like you to take a legit criticism and use the whataboutism trope "but the west does it too!"
No, they don't. I'm still waiting for the next public execution of a gay man because he's gay. The US has quite a few idiots that would love that, but they're not even close to that happening
You're a tone def lib that doesn't understand that while your criticism is true in regards to Iran, it exists in a context where your gullible repeating it is used as a justification to intervene militarily.
First I don't say fuck everyone. If you read closely, you can clearly see that I said "Fuck the Iranian and Israeli dictator governments". Heck, you even quoted it, so one could mistakenly believe that you actually read it, but you didn't.
I said fuck Teo very specific governments. Not all the governments, not everyone in the world, two governments...
Then; are you really telling me that you've never understood that concept of "two can be wrong"‽ Are you 4? The Israeli government is fucking wrong. The Iranian government is fucking wrong. About what? Just about everything they're doing
Then; who or what law says that I HAVE to chose? I fucking have to breathe, I have to eat. What I do not have to do is look at two evil powers and then make the decision that I can only criticize one of them because some twat on the Internet told me so
Stamattina siamo passati a NodeBB 4.6.1, è una release principalmente di [em]bug fixes[/em] tra cui uno particolarmente fastidioso che metteva un carattere strano [code]'n'[/code] nell'oggetto perdendo della formattazione dai post che arrivavano da Mastod
Stamattina siamo passati a NodeBB 4.6.1, è una release principalmente di bug fixes tra cui uno particolarmente fastidioso che metteva un carattere strano 'n' nell'oggetto perdendo della formattazione dai post che arrivavano da Mastodon e da Friendica.
In realtà avevo già sistemato questo bug qualche giorno fa perché avevo aggiornato prima del rilascio della 4.6.1 e non appena avevo visto che questo bug era stato risolto ma ora ne ho approfittato per allinearci con la release stabile.
Kohler unveiled Dekoda, a $599 toilet sensor that uses a tiny camera and spectroscopy to analyze bodily waste and provide health insights12. The device clamps onto the toilet bowl rim and monitors hydration levels, bowel movements, and checks for blood in the toilet.
Users sign in with a fingerprint sensor before use, allowing multiple household members to track their individual data through the companion app. The system requires a subscription costing between $70-156 per year1.
"Kohler Health isn't just another app or product. It's a promise that your home can play a more active role in your well-being," said CEO David Kohler at the launch event2.
The company emphasizes privacy protection through end-to-end encryption. The camera uses "discreet optics" aimed only at bowl contents, not body parts1. The technology works best with light-colored toilets, as dark bowls can interfere with the sensors1.
Dekoda represents Kohler's entry into the digital health space, joining other smart toilet sensors from companies like Withings and Vivoo that appeared at CES 20232.
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I can kind of see this as a positive, where tracking health is useful...
But I'd have to let go of literally every corporation who has tried to be altruistic and then burned me later. 150 a year (let's be real too, per user probably), is too much for a monitoring service like this. Not to mention, you notice blood in your stools. Unless you just ignore weird feelings and just never turn around when flushing you're gonna notice. You don't need a service for that, just go to the doc immediately.
Someone use a Smartwatch? Their all your data go to Apple, Google, Amazon and also maybe even to your Doctor. We like to surround us with Spyware to make big corporations great again.
If i feel me bad or have blood in my shit, I go to the Doctor, no need of an app which say it.
Yeah, it’s actually really valuable data for your own personal use in aggregate. Obviously you would notice a dramatic change one day. But you wouldn’t notice a slow trending change. Having the data to see that could help you identify a condition early before you have symptoms.
Collecting the data has a lot of value. Paying a subscription service for the rest of your life to not lose the data kind of ruins the deal.
Yeah that seems like the perfect sort of thing to give away as a free benefit to people, but then charge big healthcare for the overall datasets to do analysis on. Fully anonymized of course. If I, someone who actually cared about privacy, was going to do it that'd be how.
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End to end really depends on which end to which end is being connected.
Butt seriously I WANT THIS, I want poop analysis, I want fecal spectrometry. I do not want it to be a god damn enshitifued from the drop app and crapware has to have big "We aren't recording you TRUST US" stuck to it.
Stez
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in reply to Stez • • •ComradeSharkfucker
in reply to Stez • • •nixus
in reply to Stez • • •Who said that we should just let the evil win? I don't see that anywhere.
It's so weird to me how many people accept the binary that's been handed to them. As though the ones that hand you that choice would ever let one of the options be to your advantage.
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Stez
in reply to nixus • • •nixus
in reply to Stez • • •Premise: false
Isn't it weird how continuing to do the things that got us here, isn't fixing the problems that were created? I wonder why that could be. I guess we'll never know.
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Stez
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zalgotext
in reply to nixus • • •I feel like we'd see a lot more progress if these types of comments were higher up in the chain, instead of buried at the end of a conversation. I see a lot of ridiculing people for not knowing this stuff, a la: xkcd.com/1053/
I understand it's the ignorant masses' responsibilities to educate themselves. But like, we could all stand to make it easier on one another instead of jumping down each other's throats all the time.
Also this isn't directed at you in particular, just in general. I just liked your response, and I wish more people would give answers like this.
Ten Thousand
xkcdm532
in reply to Stez • • •The question then is, what is the lesser evil?
And regardless of the answer, why is the "lesser evil" doing maximum genocide?
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eldavi
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LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins [none/use name]
in reply to CascadiaRo • • •When the Democrats run a candidate who tries to act more hawkish on Iran than the GOP, gives a big speech about how we're not giving our over funded military enough and how she'll give us the "deadliest military in history," gives a speech on immigration where she literally says DO NOT COME
, all while currently and presently doing all that they can to assist Israel conducting an actual fucking genocide...
... it should be really obvious that people like you don't even know that the fuck is going on. You're not even supporting a lesser evil, at this point it's just a fucking more polite evil. They'd still be ramping up deportations, you just wouldn't have Kamala posting dipshittery gloating about it on Twitter, AND FOLKS LIKE YOU WOULD BE AT BRUNCH NOT GIVING A FUCK
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ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •like this
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Dessalines
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Political philosophers in the year 300 BC:
"Hey, so electoralism is a rigged game, because only wealthy and prestigious families have enough money to finance the popularity contest to get themselves or their puppet candidates elected."
Marxists in the 1800s, with the rise of representative governments:
"Hey, this system is proving to be the safest shell for capitalist rule, because wealthy capitalists are able to stack every election to get their puppets elected, and people have the illusion that they live in democracies"
Goldfish-brained liberals in the 2020s:
"Electoralism is gonna work this time, we just didn't vote hard enough before!"
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Carrot
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •I'd love to have a discussion about this. I am a socialist through and through. I believe that the system needs to be dismantled to achieve any meaningful change, and that no progress can realistically be made within the system.
I'd argue that there are 4 actions within the system. Vote red, vote blue, vote third party, and don't vote.
I'd argue that all 4 options will never lead to meaningful change. However, given this, every American who is eligible to vote is forced into playing the game, there is no way to abstain. Even not voting leads to a meaningful outcome within the system, and thus is still playing the game.
If no actions within the system can change things, I pose that the only way to disrupt this system is by dismantling it from the outside via revolution.
This however, cannot be done overnight, even if you are consistently acting on it. These types of things take a general sense of civil unrest to get kicked off. I believe that under capitalism, this unrest is inevitable, and once it hits a tipping point, the revolution will start. In the meantime, I feel we have two actions we can take.
First, we should be ushering in the revolution. Organize, make people aware of the alternative, disrupt the system in any means you reasonably can, try to get people to be sympathetic to the cause, etc. Don't slack on your responsibility to prepare and eventually initiate the revolution.
Second, since we have no choice but to play the game we've been dropped in to, you should vote for short term damage mitigation. If you are forced to take an action within the system, I feel people have a moral obligation to try to reduce the harm to others as much as possible. This involves making a vote, since not voting results in almost the same outcome as a vote for the candidate furthest away from the one you considered least harmful.
I have yet to see an argument that shows how not voting is going against or dismantling the system. However, considering so many people believe that not voting is the right choice, I'm really interested in hearing someone explain it to me, as there must be some reasoning behind it that I'm not seeing.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Carrot • • •like this
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Carrot
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Carrot • • •like this
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Carrot
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •3yiyo3
in reply to Carrot • • •Oppopity
in reply to Carrot • • •m532
in reply to Carrot • • •Let's draw the logical conclusion here.
Short term damage mitigation is the goal. There are three options that incur short term damage. Option 4, however, lets one continue working or resting, therefore incurring no damage at all.
As all 4 options don't lead to any meaningful change, option 4 is the best option.
Carrot
in reply to m532 • • •m532
in reply to Carrot • • •Oppopity
in reply to m532 • • •Dessalines
in reply to Carrot • • •Its refusing to play their rigged game, and spending your energies elsewhere.
Every single positive change from the US came not through voting or participation in the electoral process, but from force or the threat of force from below, usually in the form of mass protests, or enemies of the US empire defeating them militarily.
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robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
in reply to Dessalines • • •