#BikeTooter #FatBiking
Today in 2016, 9 years ago: Brazil's President Dilma Rousseff is impeached and removed from office.
Two killed, six injured in Russian attacks on Donetsk region over past day
Over the past 24 hours, Russian forces killed two residents of the Donetsk region—in Sviatohirsk and Iverske—and injured six others. — Ukrinform.Ukrinform
NEW: #Immigration Detainees Revolt at Notorious #Florida #DetentionCamp, Report Says
unicornriot.ninja/2025/immigra…
#Politics #Democrats #Republicans #Liberals #Conservatives #Vote #Election #DemocraticParty #DNC #RepublicanParty #RNC #GOP #DonaldTrump #Trump #JDVance #Vance #JoeBiden #Biden #KamalaHarris #Harris #TimWalz #Walz #Democracy #US #USA #ElonMusk #Musk #Fascism #Fascist #BernieSanders #Sanders #AOC #FraudSquad #Progressive #Progressives #ConcentrationCamp
Reports of Uprising at 'Alligator Alcatraz' - UNICORN RIOT
Dade-Collier Training and Transition Airport, Everglades, FL – According to reporting by Noticias 23/Univision, an uprising took place on or around Thursday, August 28 at the notorious immigrant detention center called ‘Alligator Alcatraz’ by some an…unicornriotuser (UNICORN RIOT)
📣⚠️🚨#AlertaUrgente MÉXICO / Policía Municipal agrede y detiene a 4 defensoras jóvenes que se manifestaban en Puebla en el marco del Día de las Víctimas de Desapariciones Forzadas. Las compañeras continúan detenidas después de haber estado 6 horas en condición de desaparecidas.
Las defensoras, integrantes de los colectivos Malhabladas, Morras Sororas Histéricas e Históricas y Lunitas, no tuvieron acceso a comida, agua, uso de servicios higiénicos o a medicamentos durante horas. Durante la marcha, se reportaron múltiples agresiones contra manifestantes, incluyendo periodistas.
Desde la IM-Defensoras y la Red Nacional de Defensoras de DDHH en México, exigimos a las autoridades, incluyendo la Policía Municipal y Estatal garantías de debido proceso, de respeto al derecho a la protesta y demandamos que se haga justicia ante las arbitrariedades y violaciones a los derechos humanos de las que son víctima manifestantes y periodistas en el país.
Reenviado desde IM-Defensoras
(t.me/experienciainterdimension…)
🌎 Experiencia interdimensional
📣⚠️🚨#AlertaUrgente MÉXICO / Policía Municipal agrede y detiene a 4 defensoras jóvenes que se manifestaban en Puebla en el marco del Día de las Víctimas de Desapariciones Forzadas.Telegram
I painted this from a photo a photographer friend took in the Midwest countryside!
#watercolor #watercolour #aquarell #aquarelle #acquerello #aquarela #acuarela #landscape #weepingwillow #painting #art #countryside
I painted this from a photo a photographer friend took in the Midwest countryside!
#watercolor #watercolour #aquarell #aquarelle #acquerello #aquarela #acuarela #landscape #weepingwillow #painting #art #countryside
Favino, corteo pro Gaza? 'Non dimentichiamo potenza del cinema' - People - Ansa.it
https://www.ansa.it/canale_lifestyle/notizie/people/2025/08/31/favino-corteo-pro-gaza-non-dimentichiamo-potenza-del-cinema_fbbba812-5eba-4a1b-9026-da6444c16121.html?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Pubblicato su Lifestyle @lifestyle-AgenziaAnsa
Favino, corteo pro Gaza? 'Non dimentichiamo potenza del cinema' - People - Ansa.it
"I festival sono sempre stati momenti di riflessione, il cinema da sempre si occupa di quello che succede nella realtà. Questo non vuole dire che debba specificatamente raccontare un tema. (ANSA)Agenzia ANSA
As I explored London Town during the springtime in search of creative inspiration, I witnessed the moment that The Strand elegantly sparkled under the sun.
#ShotoniPhone #Photography #London #TheStrand #Hotspot #PlacesToVisit
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📸 : Samsung Galaxy S20 FE
⏳️ : 2024-10-02
#nature #landscape #landscapephotography #naturephotography #forest #eastcoast #canada #paysage #photographie #parcnaturel #mastophoto #fediverse #photooftheday #canadiangeographic #autumn #autumnleafes #fallseason
The image shows a social media post by a user named "grumfy" dated August 23, 2024. The post is on a black background with white text. The user discusses the removal of the "Big Bad Wolf" from the "Little Red Riding Hood" story, citing concerns about violence against minors and predatory behavior. The post suggests that the story has been altered to remove these elements, resulting in a version where Little Red Riding Hood goes into the woods and nothing happens. The user implies that children should still follow the path and not follow wolves implicitly, as they are told to do, similar to Little Red Riding Hood. The post includes a profile picture of a landscape with a sunset and a "Follow" button.
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@adhdeanasl
Yeah - some of that is the 24 hour extreme partisan news, some is where Congress changed the rules to limit "pork barrel spending". But also, from what I read, the usage of the filibuster was way more constrained, and there just still seemed to be SOME sense of duty to country over duty to win donors and primaries.
during mid 80s there was genuine concern about nuclear war; but a lot of Gen X blotted this out with alcohol and particularly drugs.
I don't recommend doing this - the rave era *was* a lot of fun, but there were quite a few casualties and the partying also distracted folk from making society better and the governments (particularly Europe in 1990s/00s) briefly turned a blind eye whilst they carried on with neoliberalism/capitalism, and then when it got too much clamped down hard with more prohibition, leaving a lot of bitter people who had to get sober quickly (but didn't really want to) and that is a big factor in why so many are turning to fascism..
GenX here. Worst it’s ever been for me as a CIS white man. During the Cold War while we were afraid of the Russian’s starting something, we never had doubts about our own country.
Now I’m sure if you ask some people of color they will tell you it’s been this bad for a long time and we are just opening our eyes since it now impacts us.
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@purplepadma @adhdeanasl im woth this 100%. Cleaning up rivers that burned, trying to reduce acid rain, and patching up the ozone layer were wins.
Putting all of that back to how shitty it was just so a few can fill their pockets is baggling
It seems bonkers to me that people want to "Make America Great Again", despite actively championing making it basically the worst it has ever been.
I guess they want to "return" to when they were children and didn't have to pay rent, or care about anything, and didn't have to care about who they hurt because they were kids? Idk.
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born 1972, and until age 15 I assumed I'd die in a nuclear event (bomb or meltdown). Then the Iron Curtain started breaking apart, the wall fell, and for a couple months I was wildly optimistic. Not an uncommon mood at the time:
youtube.com/watch?v=MznHdJReoe…
Felt nice until reality set in again. I think that's when we became Gen X. There'd be no big event that fixes everything.
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
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I mean, we've been rounding up and deporting "the wrong sort of immigrants" plenty of times over the years too. The unique thing this time is that there are a lot of white people objecting.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat… for example - after we actively recruited them to come and work our farms during WW2 even.
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@puppygirlhornypost2
What's happening right now is SO HARD to explain to someone who isn't actively brainwashed by it, because it just seems like the average person would be smarter than it.
But I had to watch my grandparents turn into these cold, lifeless, hateful wretches over the last 15-20 years. And so I kinda can tell you what's happening.
Fox News and conservative media has sold a really bleak version of the country to people who don't leave their homes and don't see it for themselves.
They think the country is falling apart. Costs are going up, education is indoctrinating people, spirituality is gone, gender norms and traditional marriage have been ruined, criminals have overtaken the country, nowhere is safe, and communism is on the rise.
When you take 30 seconds to break any of that down, we all know it's nonsense. But they don't. They think what's happening now is a "course correction" back to "sanity."
I'm a trans woman. Trust me, I've been there. I'm literally looking them in the eyes, saying "look at me. I'm who you're talking about." But they think I'm just "one of the good ones" and that ultimately I'm an exception to the rule.
God I hate the "one of the good ones" and "Shirley Exception" bullshit.
medium.com/@scottconnerly/the-…
The Shirley Exception
The Shirley Exception A thread by Alexandra Erin So I just saw someone wondering how liberals can cut ties with conservative friends and family members over immigration policies when most Americans …Scott Connerly (Medium)
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Yeah. My mom gives me that "You'll be fine though." assurance or something all the time.
What if I'm not though? What about everyone else, why aren't they fine?
@ElsaPreme @CordiallyChloe @jhavok
@CordiallyChloe M-I-L wouldn't pick it up as "one of the good ones", she'd accept that the examples she knew from experience demonstrated that Fox was straight up lying...until they lied to her again.
A particularly sad part of the situation was that my Father-in-law was suffering from aphasia, so when my Mother-in-law would start off on a racist rant, he couldn't bring her down with reason, he'd just have to bear it.
I remember that the term "Overkill" was common knowledge as "how many times can you kill every living being on earth with your nuclear arsenal" and how it was a sign of rationality that the number has been reduced as part of the SALT/SALT2 contracts.
Hello, Gen X here. I grew up in the UK following news and politics. We grew up assuming we’d either be blown up by the IRA or obliterated by a nuclear strike from the USSR.
At no point did I ever feel the existential dread that I feel when I look at the news today. Even at the worst of times growing up, there was still a sense that logic and reason would win out.
Today, I feel like something in society and rule of law has fundamentally, irreparably broken
I sometimes feel like this is the worst it's been in my lifetime, but I have to remind myself that my very young years are years I wasn't watching or reading the news and there were assassinations, KKK and other white supremacists killing folks, hijackings, Vietnam War, lots of other wars I'm sure, etc.
I think what folks who voted for Trump think "great" means probably varies across several demographics that voted for him. The ones who mirror the kind of awful shitbag he #USpol
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffer…
[GenX] As a kid, I had a background "knowledge" that I'd die in nuclear fire. You get used to that. AIDS was terrifying when it arrived, right as we came to sexual maturity. In the early days, no one understood transmission, and there were no serious treatments.
That said, I'd never experienced the kind of dislocation I've felt since the first Trump admin. (It was only years later that I understood how vile Reagan was.)
Yeah, especially towards the end of the Cold war when the USSR was actively destabilizing that was probably super spooky. I'm sure there were hard liners who HATED Mikhail Gorbachev. Had he felt pressed into a corner and threatened or there been some sort of coup or assassination, it could have gotten super bleak and super dangerous very quickly.
Boomer here, age 68. For sheer terror, this present mess doesn't even begin to compare with the thermonuclear menace of the Cold War. Dictatorships can be reversed, and usually at MUCH less cost than for Nazi Germany. But once ICBMs are en route, what can you do?
For the same reason, there was another recent Republican presidential candidate who, had he been elected, would have frightened me far more than #Trump: the viciously xenophobic John "My fellow prisoners" #McCain, who hated Asians so much that he could easily have started the Third World War.
Yes, fear is an important part of my reaction to the Trump regime. But far more so, SHAME and DISGUST. Directed not only at Trump personally, but at every single one of my compatriots who has ever so much as considered supporting him.
@dedicto yeah, thermonuclear war is possible even more terrifying. Humanity has shrugged off empires and dictators plenty of times. Complete nuclear obliteration? Would make even climate change look like nothing.
infosec.exchange/@JessTheUnsti…
Yeah, especially towards the end of the Cold war when the USSR was actively destabilizing that was probably super spooky. I'm sure there were hard liners who HATED Mikhail Gorbachev. Had he felt pressed into a corner and threatened or there been some sort of coup or assassination, it could have gotten super bleak and super dangerous very quickly.
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I will also say that things felt pretty dire after 2004 for me. I thought that this Christian Nationalist juggernaut was going to be unstoppable at that point too. We got a brief reprieve but still are dealing with the consequences of SCOTUS and Federal Court picks he got to make in his second term. That said, here is what I wrote, typos and all, in an email to friends the day after the election. While it is somewhat prophetic it missed the timeline by a decade and the perpetrators within the right wing machine substantially. Despite how salty this reads I still had no inclination to cut any family or friends off for voting for it. I was just pissed about it. We crossed my final threshold on that with the November 2024 election. It's just too far beyond the pale now and now I have excised MAGA family/friends entirely and am still too raw about the unfolding chaos to be able to just play nice at social functions with "mere" Trump 2024 voters even if it is at all avoidable:
"Well the election is now over and we have four more years of the federal
government being run by the cabal of religious right and neo-conservative
Republicans. I'll simply warn those who didn't take the threat of these
people seriously that your saftey is not assured by being in "the right"
group. That group will continue to grow smaller and more selective as their
power grows. We had a chance to stop the onslaught of these people and we
chose not to. It isn't only our loss, it is a loss for the world. We even
handed them a Congress even more amenable to overturning the woman's right
to choose, willing to remove any semblence of civil liberties (for the ever
changing "undesirable" group anyway),e willing to merge church and state and
that will continue to turn over our economy over to a select few corporate
giants. It's sad to watch the world's greatest democratic experiment come
to such an untimely end, but unfortunately it has begun. May the world
forgive us for not stopping the juggernaut while we still had the chance.
I'll leave you with some words from a very wise man who was placed in a
similar situation 70 years ago: (Bishop Niemoller quote)"
I was 10 when the Cuban missile crisis happened. The world was definitely about to end. (My mom said we still had to go to school.)
What's different about now is that I always trusted my country to be on the right side of things. I wonder if I'll ever feel that way again.
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I was just a kid in the 80s, but the threat of nuclear war was always in the back of my mind. An AIDS crisis I didn't fully understand (and realize now was much worse than I knew), Reagan's rhetoric and presence was a source of anxiety. Kind of an opposite to Mr. Rogers.
Despite all that, there was a sense that we could make progress to someplace better, and for a time I thought that was happening. I was naive.
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But now it's worse. I know that climate change and authoritarian governments will affect our children and their children.
Well, before the wall came down was the era of the unintentionally hilarious Protect and Survive leaflet, but I don't know whether anyone took it seriously. Other than perhaps as material for radio comedy shows. Nobody really believed that hiding under the kitchen table and sticking brown paper over the windows would save them from a nuclear attack.
The wall coming down was, in retrospect, an abnormal period of hope and optimism when we assumed things would continue getting better. You could argue that we're now back to situation normal as it was before. Only worse, because back then it was pretty well universally accepted that fascists were a Bad Thing.
The period in the late 60's/early 70's was a bit worse. Assassinations, riots, raging Vietnam War, the government lying to & spying on the public, racism, John Birch Society, Watergate, resignation of Nixon, the oil price shocks & hyper inflation after the Iran hostage impasse. The "Greatest Generation" was not so great, then.
The "great again" period of the 50's is a desire to return to Jim Crow & exclusions based on race. Make America White Again.
Music WAS great, though.
• The entire Cold War - fallout shelters, "duck and cover", radioactive snow
• The Cuban Missile Crisis - my father, a Marine enlisted man, went to work one morning. By 6 pm my mother and I were convinced we would never see him again.
• Viet Nam - "Ain't no time to wonder why. Whoopee we're all gonna die!"
• 70s energy crisis - nobody had gasoline
• 79-81 Iran hostage crisis
Did I mention walking to school barefoot in the snow? The worst part was that it was uphill both ways.
We paid very little attention to nuclear annihilation. Accident was always the most likely cause and there would have been only a couple of hours of panic, with the end instant and painless. Plus, we had a lot of good things going on for us.
Nothing like this slowly maturing horror.
I came up in the later part of the cold war.
This is much worse.
Not least bc we've been watching it coming for decades, & nobody with the power to affect change has done jack-shit. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Unlike the cold war, when it at least felt like the TPTB would generally prefer to keep the population alive, now they seem laser focused on destroying everything.
Most of the 1960s, in general, seemed grim.
I vaguely remember adults talking about the Berlin wall, and was 5 when JFK was assassinated.
History...
Civil rights (ongoing, but many were killed along the way)
JFK, MLK, Jr., RFK 🪦
Vietnam
Body counts
Protests (Kent State)
Pollution (visible "air," and rivers that burned)
Richard Nixon
Henry Kissinger
The Bomb
Good things...
Vaccines for: polio, measles
Folk music
Motown
Protest music
Rock music
Laugh-In
The Smothers Brothers
cool art
1968 might well've felt nearly as bad, but I was only 3 so my recall of MLK & RFK being assassinated & Nixon's win being upsetting is a specific reflection of my family.
Watergate was bad but not doomy; it was clearly BEING HANDLED.
Reagan was a disaster but the incremental fear of global nuclear war he brought wasn't so huge & he was truly patriotic to a fault, rather than clearly out for personal gain.
GWB was like a nukeless Reagan echo.
So, no. I've not seen it this bad.
Bleak times. 1983.
Watched TV film, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da… , that depicted atomic war, from perspective of Americans in Kansas, watching in horror as American ICBMs launch. Then incoming Soviet ICBMs come in kill half of everyone, make survivors regret survival.
We watched, my fellow teen friends, then stumbled outside, half crying, shocked, despondent. We were doomed, super doomed, all doom and hopeless doominess.
My mumsy: "Oh, Murple! That was propaganda!"
Not wrong.
Those other things were either accidents, lack of knowledge and understanding or just plain warmongering, but never at the hands of just one person.
The media were always trustworthy and accountable. Now I don't know what to trust.
GenX here, from Europe: We grew up with that constant threat of WWIII, of the Red Army coming, of nuclear annihilation. With Stings 'Russians' and movies like 'The day after'. We learned about 'Flexible response' at school.
But day to day we had other,.more closer sorrows: AIDS, Chernobyl.
And at the same time glimpses of hope, of a better future, like Live Aid and that whole futuristic experimental 80s music style (also Punk & No Future were fading into the past).
@thegibson You‘ve read about this „No Future“ generation in the 80s? Yes, that was real. We expected to die either in a hot flash or from fallout by someone making a mistake.
Today it‘s the realization that you may suffer because ~40% of the population would rather enjoy it or think it‘s in their best interest.
While the outcome in the 80s was more lethal, today is more disgraceful.
I'd say the mid-80s when Reagan was putting missiles into Europe against the will of the people living there in order to better threaten the USSR felt like life could end at any moment. I don't feel like the world will be obliterated now, just the way of life I enjoy will be wiped out.
It's a different kind of hopeless and doomed, but it felt much more tactile and day-to-day threatening.
Never had we thought that we're falling back to distatorship, nationalism, genocide, massive inflation, trade wars.
Fear for your job, what will be when you retire?
Fear because of the climate change the scientists warned us of 40 years ago. Can't imagine how it will turn out in 10 or 20 years because some countries still have not heard the shot and we're nowhere near whe we should already be in terms of CO2 reduction.
As a GenX child, I knew which wall in my house (the central spine wall shared with the adjoining property) to lean a mattress up against as shelter for *when* a nuclear detonation occurred targeting my city.
This was from a TV show broadcast in prime time on mainstream television "When the bomb drops".
When, not if.
Gen X here. We had the cold war, the long shadows of Vietnam, and the sense that everything was falling apart.
There were some people in my life who suffered greatly during those times, but I was young enough to only feel a pervasive trauma that never really left.
What's happening today feels like an extension of those horrible times - and it feels MUCH worse to me.
When you consider that some nights I went to bed wondering if we would survive the night... yeah, it's bad.
The Verge’s favorite gifts for book lovers
https://www.theverge.com/tech/761931/book-lovers-gadgets-tech-gift-guide-ideas-unique-holiday?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Tech News @tech-news-theverge
The Verge’s favorite gifts for book lovers
Giving an avid reader a book is a cop-out. Here, we’ve rounded up some more unique gifts for bookworms, including e-readers, book lights, smart mugs, and more.Sheena Vasani (The Verge)
France backs Greenland amid US pressure, says minister in Nuuk
“These are now exposed to new forms of tension and aggression,” he said, touring a French Navy vessel docked in the city harbour
War update: 182 combat engagements on frontline over past day, fiercest fighting in Pokrovsk, Lyman sectors
On August 30, Ukrainian Defense Forces engaged in 182 combat clashes with Russian forces along the frontline. — Ukrinform.Ukrinform
Iran's president says hijab law might have led to 'war' in society
https://www.africanews.com/2025/08/31/irans-president-says-hijab-law-might-have-led-to-war-in-society/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Africanews @africanews-euronews
Iran's president says hijab law might have led to 'war' in society | Africanews
Iran's president said that he refused to enforce a controversial dress code law as it might have started a "war" in Iranian society.Africanews
#35mm #35mmfilm #blackandwhite #filmphotography #film #blackandwhitephotography #blackandwhitephoto #filmisnotdead #filmisalive #believeinfilm #analogfilm #filmcommunity #keepfilmalive #bw #argentique #filmcamera #fomapan #streetphotography #bwphotography #noiretblanc #minoltadynax60 #toulouse
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It was not as crazily crowded as Saturday. We had a good walk on a park trail. Many dogs were there and Kengo had to react to them, meaning I had to hold him tight.
📍 Sweetwater Creek State Park, GA
#dog #dogs #DogsOfMastodon #AdoptDontShop #rescuedog #photography #FujiFilm #park
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📱 Apple’s “Awe dropping” iPhone 17 event is set for Sept 9 at 1PM ET 🎥
What to expect:
– iPhone Air may debut: ultra-thin (5.55mm), 48MP cam, smaller battery ⚖️
– iPhone 17 Pro: aluminum build, new camera island, 48MP zoom lens 🔍
– iOS 26 to launch with major UI redesign 🧊
Also likely:
– Apple Watch Ultra 3 with 5G + satellite texting 🌍
– AirPods Pro 3 with health sensors + capacitive case 🦻
🔗 engadget.com/mobile/smartphone…
#Apple #TechNews #iOS #iPhone #iPhone17 #iOS26 #AppleEvent #Tech #Mac #MacOS
Apple's iPhone 17 'Awe dropping' event is on September 9 — Here's what we expect
The iPhone Air may make its long-rumored debut.Will Shanklin (Engadget)
@dknight10k.bsky.social please follow @ap.brid.gy so that users of mastodon and other AP services can also follow, boost & reply to you. if everyone did this to bridge their account, moving would be easy, pressuring bluesky to never “go evil” like twitter did. fed.brid.gy/docs#bluesky...
L’esorcista
Bentornate anche alle cinture viola
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France Issues Warnings for Thunderstorms and Floods in South
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-08-31/france-issues-warnings-for-thunderstorms-and-floods-in-south?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=activitypub
Posted into Bloomberg @bloomberg-bloomberg
Mud Run Natural Area
Hickory Run State Park, PA
There is a stretch of Mud Run that widens and deepens into a lake-like pool, hidden near the busy Hawk Falls. Harder to reach, it rewards you with quiet escape 🤫
#FlyFishing #Nature #Wildlife #Hiking #Walking #Creek #Lake #Photography
GhostOnTheHalfShell reshared this.
Evidently I’m incapable of putting my oil pastels down. 🙃
#MastoArt #TraditionalArt #OilPastels #Nature #LandscapeArt #Forest #Mosstodon
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Saiba quais empresas financeiras e fundos foram alvos da megaoperação contra o PCC - Gazeta Brasil- Notícias
A megaoperação Carbono Oculto, realizada nesta quinta-feira (28) em oito estados, atingiu 42 dos 350 alvos na Avenida Brigadeiro Faria Lima, em São Paulo, umGazeta Brasil
Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed - Louis Rossmann
- YouTube
Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.youtube.com
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very seamless, official lineage builds work amazing.
only hiccups ive had are play integrity, i really didnt want to root but i have to in order to hide authy and similar apps that throw a fit. ended up installing magisk and im all green for now
other issue is losing sony sidesense, since i have an Xperia 5 III and it's 21:9, being able to pull down the notification drawer without reaching all the way up there was great. ill live with the alternatives that come with android for now though until i find out what is a real replacement
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We currently sell and ship Jolla C2 within the European Union, the United Kingdom, Norway, and Switzerland.
From a cursory glance, they don't ship to any of the largest smartphone markets. That's likely why you don't hear much about them as opposed to any of the global distributors.
For my next phone it will be between a used Pixel with Graphene OS and the Fairphone 6 with the de-Googled e/OS option. A modern Pixel would be a little better for CPU, camera and RAM, but the Fairphone has decent hardware specs and tries to be more ethical about the environment and its suppliers, and it has a replaceable battery. The Fairphone is expensive in the USA though.
shop.fairphone.com/the-fairpho…
wired.com/review/fairphone-gen…
Edit: After reading this thread I would lean towards Graphene OS:
The Fairphone (Gen. 6) now with privacy-first /e/OS
Stay in control of your data with /e/OS, a deGoogled Fairphone experience with all the functionality of Android, and none of the privacy concerns.Fairphone
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Recently a user here did the math on that and the fair/eco part of fairphone is really miniscule (they spend less than 5$ per phone and a big part of that are fairwashing credits).
Unless you need the repairability or the specific specs, you might be better off to buy a cheaper phone and just donate money to a good cause.
Here is the original post: lemmy.world/post/32013987
How fair is a Fairphone? (Or, how much of the sticker price does Fairphone spend on fair/eco?)
This is a short analysis of the official Fairphone 2024 impact report.Fairphone is kinda cagey about how much money they exactly spend on fair/eco initiatives, giving only very little information on what exactly it spends in these departments.
For a good reason, it is not a lot.
Specifically, these numbers are given in the report for 2024:
- The workers assembling the phones get $1.20 of "living wage bonus" for each phone assembled. This bonus is spread over all workers in the factory, no matter if they worked on fairphones or not, coming out to a yearly bonus of $60.67 per worker.
- $3000 was spent on gold fairwashing credits for some artisanal gold mine in Tanzania
- $13000 was spent on fairwashing credits for 2.5 tonnes of cobalt (that's 20% of the raw world market price of cobalt).
That's everything. They do talk about a few other fair/eco initiatives in there, but if you read about what they are doing there, it's usually very little and mostly marketing speech. We can safely assume that if any other initiatives would cost more than the ones mentioned above, they would have put these values into the impact report.
They sold 103 053 phones in 2024, so the credits mentioned above come out to just $0.155 per phone.
So to account for the rest of their initiatives and credits, let's be ultra generous and assume they paid 10x of that for all of these initiatives and credits, bringing this value up to $1.55 per phone plus $1.20 in living wage bonus, which gives us a total of $2.75 per phone.
To double check how realistic these numbers are, lets look at their use of fair materials using the Fairphone 5 as our example.
On page 42 they claim "Fair materials: 76%", but with the disclaimer "Average across 14 focus materials" next to it.
These 76% do not consider materials that are not "focus materials" (and aren't acquired fairly at all) and it also doesn't take into consideration the different distributions of the materials in the phone. Some materials (e.g. iridium) are only found in trace amounts in the phone, while other materials (e.g. aluminium or plastics) make up a large part of the weight of the phone.
On page 67 they go into more detail. Here they claim that only 44% of the materials by weight are "fair". To make this even worse, 37% of these 44% are recycled. Specifically, the materials they use in recycled form are metals, plastics and rare earth elements. These are materials that are cheaper to recycle than to mine, which means these 37% of "fair" materials cost nothing to Fairphone and might even save them money. You will likely find similar shares of recycled materials in any other phone too.
Of the 7% "fair" materials that are left, only 1% is actually mined fairly, the remaining 6% are fairwashed using credits. As we have seen above, these credits are really cheap (adding maybe 20% to the price of the material).
On top of that comes the fact that the raw materials make up only a tiny fraction of the manufacturing cost of a smartphone. The expensive part is turning a pile of minerals, metals and plastic into chips, PCBs, screens, batteries and assembling all of that. So even if they paid fairwashing credits for all materials in the phone it would likely not cost more than a few dollars.
TLDR: Less than $5 per phone are spent on fair/eco.
So where does the money go? In 2024 they had an EBITDA of just €1 745 840, or €16.94 per phone. That's not a lot at all, so it's not like they are pocketing huge sums of money.
Their main problem is that they are a tiny company with low sales figures that has to outsource almost everything they do. On their website they claim to have "70+ employees". That's barely enough for supply chain management, sales and marketing. They don't have an in-house production and likely not even in-house development. They don't have any economies of scale on their side and they certainly don't produce screens, batteries, chips or PCBs in house, like other major manufacturers like e.g. Samsung can do. Their development cost is spread over far fewer sold units.
All of this costs a lot of money.
So when you pay an extra €200-300 to buy a Fairphone instead of a comparable mainstream phone, you are mostly paying for a boutique manufacturing process that can't benefit from economies of scale.
Which is ok, that's nothing bad to do. Just be aware where that extra money is going.
Buying a Fairphone is hardly fairer than buying a regular phone and it is certainly not more eco friendly than buying an used phone.
commerce.jolla.com/products/jo…
Jolla C2 Community Phone
Reclaim your smartphone with Jolla C2 The Jolla C2 isn’t for everyone. It’s for those who believe their privacy is their own to control, who value trust over shortcuts, and who have the courage to make their own way.Jolla Shop
Jolla C2 Community Phone
Reclaim your smartphone with Jolla C2 The Jolla C2 isn’t for everyone. It’s for those who believe their privacy is their own to control, who value trust over shortcuts, and who have the courage to make their own way.Jolla Shop
It works well enough to use as a daily driver on Bookworm and Trixie (and some other distros) but would only recommend if you're ok with Linux, and either are a developer or don't mind some rough parts around the edges.
E.g. some carriers uses 2 APNs, one for internet and one for MMS. You can send/receive on both, but the router is not yet complete, so if you send/receive media or use a group chat via text, need to switch to MMS mode in settings to do so first, then switch back to internet. Not an issue on most carriers as they only have 1 APN, but an edge case for the ones that do have this configuration.
Yeah, that's a really rough edge, but also...if it doesn't apply to you... 🤔
Good to hear that it's a potential option, if you do your research.
Purism scams their customers left, right, and center and have for effectively their entire existence. They should not be trusted, and their phone specs are basically from 2013 sold for $800.
So even if you're idealistic enough to pay $800 for a phone that'd be in a landfill if it didn't have hardware privacy features, Purism will take that trust you have in them and screw you over – delay you for as long as they need to/can/want with no recourse for a refund outside of maybe the courts. After which you hope you either get a functioning product or get good luck with a disorganized, opaque, scumfuck company like that.
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You're not being honest. They struggled to deliver their ambitious mainline Linux phone on time during Covid yes, but they eventually delivered. The fact that they did is a huge win for the mobile Linux ecosystem becoming a real contender just when we need it. All their other products are just fine.
NXP i.MX family debuted in 2013; Intel i7 family in 2008. Their phone uses a 2017 i.MX 8M Quad, the same year they crowdfunded their phone. 2017 i7 computers are equally not from 2008..
It still today remains one of the best ARM processors with open source drivers without an integrated baseband. It means basically any flavour of Linux can install on the device, with a significant layer of protection from carrier conduited attacks. Other modules have similar tradeoffs between performance and interoperability/security.
Want better specs? We either need SoC companies to release more of their drivers open source, or more people to patiently reverse engineer closed source ones.
They struggled to deliver their ambitious mainline Linux phone on time during Covid yes, but they eventually delivered.
And for the people who requested refunds who waited months if not never received them? Despite them moving back their timeline literal years with repeated delays? I don't care what challenges they faced; they knowingly took people's money and refused to give it back to them when they couldn't deliver. It's their responsibility to be prepared for challenges. And in some extreme edge case where they couldn't have been prepared, it's their responsibility to be transparent about that to the people who gave them over a million dollars (let alone purchased the product after the Kickstarter was finished). I suppose too that the pandemic affected Purism in January 2019 when they were supposed to deliver their product?
The fact that they did is a huge win for the mobile Linux ecosystem becoming a real contender just when we need it.
The Librem 5 is not a contender for shit. It's so overpriced that it can only be successfully marketed to people who care so deeply about their privacy that they're willing to use an inconvenient mobile OS, get completely boned on hardware specs, and deal with a company notorious for fucking over its customers. Purism's behavior is a fucking embarrassment to the Linux ecosystem.
NXP i.MX family debuted in 2013; Intel i7 family in 2008. Their phone uses a 2017 i.MX 8M Quad, the same year they crowdfunded their phone.
That CPU is based on the ARM Cortex-A53 and Cortex-M4, launched in 2012 and 2009, respectively.
2017 i7 computers are equally not from 2008…
When I say "2013", I'm not talking about the debut year of i.MX. I'm talking about the fact that you can compare this phone side-by-side with a Galaxy S4 or S5. 3 GB of RAM, 32 GB of eMMC storage, a 720 x 1440p IPS display, no NFC, USB 3.0, an 8/13 MP front/back camera (which they inexplicably call "Mpx"; good job, guys), 802.11n Wi-Fi, no waterproofing, and a shitty-ass i.MX 8M CPU. I still remember watching a trailer for the Librem 5's continuing development, and as they were scrolling through a web browser, it was noticeably stuttering. This was years and years ago; I can't even imagine it today.
It still today remains one of the best ARM processors with open source drivers without an integrated baseband. It means basically any flavour of Linux can install on the device, with a significant layer of protection from carrier conduited attacks. Other modules have similar tradeoffs between performance and interoperability/security.
I do not give even the slightest inkling of a shit try to confirm or deny this, so I'm just going to assume it's 100% true, because it's not relevant to the point that the spec is absolute trash and being sold for $800. If you are not absolutely married to privacy, this is not a sellable product in 2025.
Want better specs? We either need SoC companies to release more of their drivers open source, or more people to patiently reverse engineer closed source ones.
Actually, if I want better specs, I'm just going to go out and buy a phone that isn't from Purism. It really sucks that it's not open, private hardware, but Purism is such a scummy company that so wantonly fucks over their customers that I wouldn't touch the Librem 5 even if I could justify spending $800 for that spec just for privacy's sake.
Everywhere I talk about some corporation removing features you bought and paid for, someone says that "they personally would never used that feature", or "serves them right for buying from that company".
In other words, go fuck yourself.
lol the pinned comment on this video is
“Ok, so what do i switch to now? I refuse apple. So what do i have to chose from?”,
and Louis’ reply is “nothing”.
Fairphone with lineage OS is a better option in my opinion.
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Child slaves labored to make raw materials for the device you're holding. Your purchase kept the market rate for raw materials high, encouraging the continued use of slave labor. Don't you feel bad?
We do the best we can with the decisions we have available to us.
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Likewise, Pixel 6 with similar track record but nearing 4 years. Plus it sits on my motorcycle handlebars for 18000km+ so it's hardly been coddled.
This all just makes me so sad about the future of phones. What a shit set of decisions we have coming up.
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[Installing software] will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
Fixed that for you 😀
"Uugfhh, but the users don't read the warnings!! They just click yes until it works!!"
And that's my problem because???? For fucks sake
With this shift and other control based decisions Google has been making, does Apple devices start to make more sense? Neither platform offers true control over there device you "own", but Apple at the very least isn't a marketing company.
I can't believe a company hasn't swooped in and eaten Apple and Google's lunch.
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You need a certain critical mass to enter this market, since you need to be able to get an army of Foxconn slaves to produce the handsets.
No company is going to be and to swoop in and eat those two's lunches.
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I kind of feel like MS tried three distinct times, first with their WinMo products pre-Apple, then with their Nokia partnership, then finally with one last push through the mid-10's before Intel finally made x86 on mobile an impossibility (nuking the Atom line, selling their 5G modem business to Apple, etc) and before there just weren't any paths forward for MS.
Amazon and FB having their own phone product lines felt like the weirdest me-too-also-ran Android reskins to extend their own walled gardens, but also felt like both threw in the towel after like 18 months?!?
MS had to be a loser for more than a decade before they gave up. They were really great at being a big loser.
It's just .. apparent that nobody is going to do this for the love of the game, and that they can only get minimum market presence by financing their way to launching yet another walled garden ecosystem. Which is exactly what we all want to avoid in this group.
You also need every company to develop for a third mobile platform, where two different ones are already a big ask.
Easy solution would be to run existing apps on Linux, probably would be Android.
Another solution would we move to PWAs to have apps in the browser.
Both these things already happened on desktop Linux with Windows games using Proton and most proprietary desktop apps switching to Electron.
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Honest question - why not fork android which already has all of the infrastructure needed for things like 5G handling, power management, and a widely supported ecosystem of components and vendors?
I would try a Linux phone, absolutely, but why not just Android instead?
The issue is current and future vendors for current and future Android phones are largely tainted and lockstep with Google.
But wouldn't developing off yesteryear Android still be leap years ahead of just reinventing the wheel around Linux? I kinda thought Android was Linux for our devices.
I'm mostly saying this just because I'm jealous to bring all of my APK's with me into that future.
I don't want to give up my reddit app and my current trio of browsers.
If Reddit Old would play nice with said device, and doesn't have a native app, I probably will settle on that when my ReVanced 3rd-party-Boost finally dies. (I also use the same developer's Boost for Lemmy app).
I already use Amazon in one browser instead of its app, and Facebook in a whole separate browser on my device, even.
But there are apps on in daily, like my brokerage account and my budget/financial app (Monarch Money is worth the subscription, for me).
I would absolutely pay for access to
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Until a few months ago I was all-in the Apple ecosystem. iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple TV. Seeing them launch things like Universal Control was amazing.
Then I jumped out, got a Pixel, put Graphene on it, and started messing with Linux.
... Only to discover that Universal Control is essentially just Input Leap, which can trace its history back to 2001 and the launch of Synergy.
Apple are absolutely a marketing company. Don't get me wrong, they add some much-needed polish, but they essentially just rejig existing tech and lock it down so it only works on their devices sold in the last few years.
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I use Debian as my daily driver and am disappointed to see that the best-supported devices under Mobian within my budget are the Pinephone (which has shockingly low specs) or the Pinephone Pro (recently discontinued, no longer sold. Also had poor specs).
I was toying with was getting an SBC with an LTE/5G hat & 7in touch screen, plugging it into a portable battery, and 3d printing a case for it.
Fairphone with PostMarketOS seems more practical.
The FLX1 runs FuriOS, which is an operating system based on Debian, designed and oriented for mobile use without any artificial limitations.
FLX1 - FuriPhone FLX1 Linux Phone
Fast, performant and cheap. You wanted all 3? Now you got it! The FLX1 from Furi Labs runs a fully optimized system called Furi OS, packing a lightning fast user interface, tons of storage, and a …Furi Labs: Planned Permanence
But I might have a look at it again and see how many tasks still remains before I could theoretically use Mobian as a daily driver.
My main problem with linux phones is that many apps only exist only for android or ios.
Sure some apps are basically a website that you can acess by web browser but many apps cant be replaced able (banking, tickets, public transport, games)
Android apps on mobile Linux, even for games. Doesn't help for banking apps though as they'll usually lock you out due to not passing Google safety checks.
I thought so too, but over the years I have migrated so much of my life away from apps in order to see if it's possible and apart from games I find that with a browser and an email client I don't really need apps. Still use apps though, they are way more convenient.
Banking is tedious without apps, but works with browser and an MFA-dongle in my country.
Something kind of concerning I just found - there's an option for "limited distribution" which is "Intended for 'students, hobbyists, and other personal use.'" One of the differences is the following:
Has "capped number of apps and installs"(specific limits not disclosed)
Doesn't this imply there's going to be global tracking of what apps people are installing even through sideloading or APKs? I can't think of any other way to enforce this. They would have to know how many times people installed an app even when its not through any kind of app store or even from the internet at all.
I'm pretty sure that was implemented a while ago. My install of VLC from F-Droid started showing up in Play Store's update list.
It couldn't update since the signature didn't match, but Google knew about it and included it anyway.
Google side loading detection(Stop let us install .apk files outside of Google play store)
What will happened now when Google stop let us install app's outside of Google play store? Google want to became Apple? Really is there a change Google stop let us install apps from .apk files...fits79 (XDA Forums)
It's been the case ever since I started using Android (and modded APKs such as old versions of apps re-signed to not update) in about 2011.
Some of the root apps back then such as Titanium Backup had features to "unhook" an app so it wouldn't appear as installed in the store, but my experience was that it never lasted long enough to be worth doing.
App stores provide the apks but then you'll use your phone's installer to actually, well, install the apks.
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hopefully some flavor of linux
edit: but I'd take MacOS or Windows over either iOS or Android at this point. I suppose a toughbook mounted in my truck would do the job also. Cops rotate those out on a fairly regular basis.
Well, I use Obtainium to install all my FOSS apps directly from the repository.
I also built a game for kids (available publicly) and then made a plugin just for my kid which includes some licensed characters, for obvious reasons I can't put that onto the Play Store, so apk installation it is.
I get what you're saying and you're definitely right. I don't side load things all that much but the times I have was because there was no other viable way to get what I needed and it worked amazingly well (not to mention testing something before it's available on the app store).
It's one of those things like a fire extinguisher that you might not need but you are very grateful it's there just in case you ever do.
Look up Australia's whitelisting system.
If you phone isn't manually approved, it won't be able to connect to a cell tower, not even for emergency calls.
(sources in video description)
If your phone isn't manually approved, its assumed your phone doesn't support 4g/5g, therefore, blocked.
4G/5G phones have already been blocked
Fairphone isn't certified in Australia, Pinephone also isn't, nor Librem 5.
Custom ROMs on an approved phone might work for now, but they could potentially start verifying OS in the future if the autocratization trend continues. Also, manufacturers could starts start locking the bootloader.
The best realistic way forward is have two devices, one is the "normie" phone, the other is your own pocket PC running a Libre OS.
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the collaborative world works off of demand. Pocket laptops and linux phones have been a nice distraction for long enough. They may soon become more of a saving grace.
I'm not saying you'll be able to run Spyware Simulator 2000 on PostmarketOS. I'm more saying that any secondary device you use for foss software will be more focused upon as an actual decent alternative for getting work done without being spied on by capitalist nazis.
These devices can run web browsers. That's 80% of your needs already taken care of and we haven't even left Firefox.
CARRY TWO PHONES??!!
What will the neighbors think!?
This defeats the entire purpose of me having android
Like I'm just going to switch to an iPhone now. Not because Apple is any better, but because I have more family with them.
They took away our SD cards, they took away our removable batteries, they took away our headphone jacks. Now they're taking away side loading apps, and that's it. I'm done. The death of android.
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Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot).
As for the headphone jack, I'm afraid it won't come back. Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days (I got both, so I know from experience), and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.
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Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days
Disputable.
* they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
* they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
* bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
* transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
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- they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
I'll give you that, but my bone conduction headset lasts a few days with the amount I use
- they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
Meh. I've put corded earbuds in my pocket and probably worn them out faster that way. Bluetooth headsets I tend to leave on (much to my wife's annoyance) and that makes them last longer in my experience.
- bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
Aha, that van outside must be tapping into me listening to The Dandy Warhols! I knew it! (In all seriousness, if security is that critical you probably shouldn't be doing whatever it is over WiFi, which is pretty much unavoidable with a phone)
- transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
Are we really talking about saving energy here? That's like... Moisture in the bucket levels. Not even a drop in the bucket
I agree with you, even if you are downvoted. I've wrecked more in-ear buds by (non-replaceable) broken cable than i can count, while i'm on my 3rd bluetooth headphone in about 10 years - i lost none of them, and the second one is still around as backup.
The security is a thing that can be patched if it pops up and is only an issue if your OPSEC differs strongly from the common citizen, and the energy argument comes across like a purity test - the light in my fridge probably uses more energy.
I would never go back to cable, especially since noise cancelling doesn't work without a battery anyway - and i am very unhappy without noise cancelling.
Also, i have a power bank where i can use 21600 Li-ion Battery cells as power source (and it doubles as charger for those cells) - on travels i take a few batteries with me, and even if i find myself for weeks without power, i will have it whenever i need it.
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separatel
If you wish for ANC you'll need a battery anyway, and most people do want ANC these days
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
I'm loosing my wired headphone far more often, for a simple reason: wireless ones having a battery allows me to make them beep, given they are near, of course.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
Sure, and so are wired headphone as they act as an antenna, broadcasting to anyone with an appropriate receptor anything you say and/or hear.
As for the implementation vulnerabilities, at least it can be patched.
transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
Sure, but is it that much of a problem? It would take years (if not decades) of constant listening to even use a dollar of electricity for wireless headphones. Even if you factor the data transmission from the phone into that.
And wired headphone are not energy neutral either. They works by pulling energy from the phone battery.
I prefer the wireless headphones ease of use to headphone I have to untangle every time I want to use them. I keep my wired ones for home uses.
I have two devices, one is my phone, and one only plays music. I only ever use my phone as my phone, and my music device as my music device in my car, and both run over Bluetooth.
It is a crapshoot as to which role my car will assign to which device. Sometimes I have to put my phone in airplane mode so that the car won't try to assign it the media player role in Bluetooth settings. I'm not impressed.
That has a lot more to do with the car itself.
If you ever want to talk about a shit OS...
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
Not a major drawback, IMO.
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
True, but I haven't lost any in the something like 6 years I've been using them.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
What's your threat model? Who's going to be attacking your security via your headphones? What happens if they succeed?
IMO this is a pretty ridiculous drawback, it's like saying "wired headphones are worse because the wire can be used as a garrote", which is true, but not an actual drawback for 99.999% of people.
transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
So what?
IMO the drawbacks of wired headphones are:
- The cable often gets tangled, and it's a pain in the ass to untangle it
- The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
- The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
- Even when the cable isn't tangled, just arranging the wire so it's out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
- Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it's out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
- Because of the wire, you're limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that's more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you're listening to.
- If you're doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can't put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you're moving to the sink to wash them off.
- In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that's convenient.
- ~~The headphone wire is a potential personal security vulnerability as a ninja can use it to garrote you.~~
The drawbacks for a wireless headset are:
- They tend to have batteries that can't be replaced, so eventually they lose their ability to hold a charge and need to be replaced. It can get really annoying to use them when the batteries are starting to fail and they hold less than an hour of charge.
- They tend to be much more expensive than wired headphones.
- Wireless buds are easier to lose, and easier to drop. If you drop them they can bounce and roll under things, or into the street or who knows where.
- They do eventually run out of charge, and you do have to charge them, and sometimes they can be low on charge / out of charge when you want to use them.
- There's a fair amount of lag, which can be annoying when you're trying to skip commercials on podcasts and so-on.
First of all, you're forgetting that the actual problem is that the headphone jack does not require you remove bluetooth from the device. The issue here is giving user less options and more costly "solutions".
The cable often gets tangled, and it's a pain in the ass to untangle it
Git gud. It's not that hard to roll up the cable so that it doesn't tangle. Worst case scenario, you can buy a small case.
The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
Use headphones with a replaceable wire. That way you can use a cable with or without a mic or use different lentghs. Hell, you can even make your own and they're cheap. Even if the wire isn't easily replaceable, most headphones can be fixed with a bit of patience and a soldering iron.
Even when the cable isn't tangled, just arranging the wire so it's out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
You're just doing mental gymnastics at this point.
Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it's out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
Or you can, I don't know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
Because of the wire, you're limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that's more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you're listening to.
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin'.
If you're doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can't put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you're moving to the sink to wash them off.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You're cooking in a kitchen. Lose the headphones.
In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that's convenient.
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won't have this """problem""".
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
New problem created. Now when you want to take your phone out of your pocket to take a picture of something or scan it for an NFT sale you can't do that easily because you have this wire running through your shirt connecting your phone to your headphones. Also, if it's winter, now your phone has to go in an inner pocket not an outer one so you can't easily access it anymore.
Or you can, I don't know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
And start blasting whatever you're listening to to the whole world? Well, you could pause what you're listening to first. Don't you see how this is much less convenient than wireless headphones where you don't have to make all these compromises?
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin'.
Ah, accept a less convenient alternative because of the limitations of the wires. Sure, sounds great.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You're cooking in a kitchen.
You're cooking in a kitchen. There are loud fans, loud kettles. Why would you use a speaker that you have to turn way up to blast over all that noise? What's wrong with you. Use headphones, you're in a kitchen!
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won't have this """problem""".
Now you have the other problems with your phone being inside an inner pocket and not easily accessible for doing things like taking pictures or doing NFT transactions. You really haven't thought this through, have you?
Great arguments! ~/s~
Still no reason to not just have both options.
I can't even follow your arguments anymore.
As a user, I want as many options as possible, but if I can get a phone that's $100 cheaper because it doesn't have a headphone port, I'll definitely choose that option.
You're the one that implied headphone jacks add cost to phones. I'm saying that they don't, and whatever cost they do add is minuscule. The implication that any cost savings is being passed to you is laughable.
Look, they killed the jack because they could save a couple bucks of design time and get a few cubic millimeters of space, but most importantly they could softly force their users to buy wireless headphones (maybe even the ones they sell and bundle?!). The former outcomes being happy accidents in order push the latter. It's win win for them, and lose for the customer.
They know that their price concious customers are still using wired headphone and unlikely to take them up on their bundle, so they keep including it there. The affluent ones are the ones with cash to burn and little care for this issue. I get you like BT headphones, so do I, but there's simply no good defense for the 3.5mm removal other than shilling.
You're the one that implied headphone jacks add cost to phones.
They do.
I'm saying that they don't, and whatever cost they do add is minuscule.
Ok.
The implication that any cost savings is being passed to you is laughable.
It is, but it isn't a major savings. But, it's hard to know because the pricing of phones isn't very transparent.
Look, they killed the jack because they could save a couple bucks of design time and get a few cubic millimeters of space
Yes....
most importantly they could softly force their users to buy wireless headphones
Why would they care?
You're missing the point again. It's not one or the other. We used to have BOTH. I use BT headphones day to day because I like the convenience, like you. However there plenty of times I wished I had an aux out or forgot my BT buds and wanted to use a pair of headphones I had at the desk.
We deserve BOTH.
Now when you want to take your phone out of your pocket to take a picture of something or scan it for an NFT sale you can't do that easily
Sure you can. Just unplug the headphones.
And start blasting whatever you're listening to to the whole world?
You're either trolling or you've never used wired headphones. Playback stops automatically when you unplug a wired headphone. It's the same thing when you disconnect a bluetooth headphone.
You're cooking in a kitchen. There are loud fans, loud kettles. Why would you use a speaker that you have to turn way up to blast over all that noise?
Wtf? Lol. If you're kitchen is that loud, something's wrong with it.
or doing NFT transactions. You really haven't thought this through, have you?
Yeah, you're either trolling or a very special kind of person.
Sure you can. Just unplug the headphones.
First you have to stop whatever you're listening to or you start playing it on a speaker for everyone. Doing that is an annoyance that you don't need to put up with if you just use wireless headphones.
Playback stops automatically when you unplug a wired headphone
Maybe it does today, I don't know, I haven't used wired headphones in many years. Back in the day it didn't.
Wtf? Lol. If you're kitchen is that loud, something's wrong with it.
If you are kitchen is quiet, you really should be using the fan to get the smoke and food smells out of the kitchen. Maybe if you're just making pop-tarts then it isn't a big deal, but if you actually ever do any serious cooking you'll discover that it gets loud.
Yeah, you're either trolling or a very special kind of person.
Why are you so scared of the modern world? Is it that you're too confused by it all? Can't handle touchscreens? Scared by https? It's ok man, just take a course. You'll learn to live in the present, not the past.
Missed a few things.
- They are cable-less, thus they use a battery and have a shorter lifespan
- The batteries they use are generally not user replaceable so they turn into e-waste rather quickly
- Due to the reduced bluetooth bandwidth, call quality is crap
- Sound quality is worse than a wired headphone that costs the same
The Apple adapter is very good. I used one on my Linux machine that had a finicky built in port. Obviously works great on a phone. If you need one in a car at least MagSafe/qi is available now but not ideal.
I don’t love the idea of “removable” batteries being mandated if that means like the batteries in an old flip phone. We needed them then because the capacity was so bad and power banks didn’t exist. I would prefer that manufacturers require them to be third party replaceable instead.
That’s convenient to swap a battery but I feel like my phone is more likely to get soaked than need a battery swap at any time in the next two years. The FP6 is IP55 rated.
Looks like FP6 battery is £45 and iPhone 14 is £60-£90 depending where you buy it. I know I can get that done in the next hour or two where I live, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
The replaceable camera feature is more compelling because a broken front iPhone camera can effectively brick the device.
My phone is IP68 and you can replace the battery. Does require removing some screws to get the case off but I think that would pretty much be required to waterproof it anyway.
Shame they discontinued Cat phones
A replaceable usb-c port is great too. My previous Nokia 8.1 died because of that, and my previous FP5 needed a replacement after 2 years of use.
But I agree that Fairphone have work to do on waterproofing their phones. It was hard with the previous hand removable back panel, but now that they added screws to the back panel, it wouldn't be that much of a a stretch to add some o-rings to further waterproof it. I'm sure they could get it to IP66 rather easily, maybe IP67 with a little more work.
Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:
- volla.online/en/volla-phone-x2…
- furilabs.com/shop/flx1/
- puri.sm/products/librem-5/#tec…
- pine64.org/devices/pinephone/
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
FLX1 - FuriPhone FLX1 Linux Phone
Fast, performant and cheap. You wanted all 3? Now you got it! The FLX1 from Furi Labs runs a fully optimized system called Furi OS, packing a lightning fast user interface, tons of storage, and a …Furi Labs: Planned Permanence
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
or 2027. Or some Chinese variant of android on Chinese/Taiwan phone that allows sideloading, perhaps with alternate playstore and maps. I don't yet understand how draconian this actually gets implemented, but death of android/google (to me) is possible. If hardware is good enough, then android emulator will be fine for legacy apps.
Bluetooth alternatives aren't better, that's laughable.
You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don't use Bluetooth.
The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don't have Bluetooth.
So when you say they're better 1. You're wrong. And 2. You're missing the point.
If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You're only ok with it because it doesn't effect you and I think that's appalling.
Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say "that's fine, wired headphones are better anyway". It's not about that, it's about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated
I work in IT and pairing bluetooth is sometimes so finnicky i give up for a few days. I can accept that I'm not that great at IT but I don't think 99% of people don't have these problems.
And it's not a thing you do one time, most of these gadgets need re-pairing every sone time for whatever reason.
Oh I'll agree that sometimes Bluetooth pairing can be finicky.
But the person I replied to was talking about how Bluetooth is not good enough for audiophile quality headphones. But most people don't care and can't even notice the difference.
There are a lot of very good Bluetooth headphones from Bose, Sony, and the like. If you take a look at lab tests, most of lf them got a frequency response pretty close to the ideal curve, and ANC helps a lot to isolate outside noises that would drown out the music on wired headphones.
But I do agree about choice, just not on the blind refusal of using USB-C adapters. That's unfortunate that they removed it, but it has some good reasons. A headphone jack wasn't made to be waterproof, and if some managed to make some of them waterproof-ish, it is often by enclosing it into its own little sub-enclosure, with a good short-circuit protection (because even a tiny water drop in there mean a short), both of which takes place.
Same goes for the DAC, we got so far into miniaturizing it, and inside interferences are so high now with new technologies, it probably wouldn't be viable anymore to have it inside the phone itself. Even larger device, like the Steam Deck, have problems preventing interferences on the headphones jack, so that must be an even bigger problem on something as tinny as a phone 😅
I don't care if it comes for Audeze, Sony, or a Chinese Knockoff, numbers doesn't lie.
Hell no. I'm well aware it is a good audio brand (german I think, but may be mistaken)
What I wanted to say here is that I prefer an objective good quality product, adapted to my needs, to a brand name. Even well known brands sometimes make bad products.
As an example, I have a Sony WH-1000XM3. But if I'd be interested in an XM4, there is no way in hell I'd buy an XM5, because of some shitty choices they took (no more foldable design, forced adaptative ANC). Maybe the XM6 will end up of interest to me, I did not yet check its specs, but considering I recently changed my current XM3 battery, I won't be back on the market until the XM7 or XM8.
They won’t become “removable” like in ye old Nokia days. It’s not like you can carry extra batteries and just swap them on the go.
They just have to be swappable without special tools or specialist equipment.
No, bluetooth is not better. Bluetooth has latency which is bad for anything that needs realtime audio, like video games or any kind of live performance. It also runs on 2.4 like every other electronic Wireless devices making it prone to interference. And it's yet another device to keep charged all the time.
USB C is also inferior because you need dongles which increase complexity of your setup, it's more prone to failures. Like audio cutting off every x minutes because connection is just slightly loose or other electronic gremlins. I'm saying this having just had a gig and the MD's phone we relied on for the metronome started acting up during the performance not recognizing the dongle until a reboot.
Audio jacks were simple, analog, worked perfectly fine and delivered high quality audio. What we have now is overengineered slop that is less reliable and more expensive.
Tbf, you can a very cheap android phone for around $100 USD, the cheapest iPhone starts at around ~~$400~~ (edit: Actually I got curious and looked it up, apparantly the iPhone SE is gone and the cheapest new iPhone right now seems to be the 16e which start at $600). Also, Apple developer account cost $99 per year, Google developer account cost $25 one time fee, so the cost is gonna trickle down to the user, sometimes you find free apps on google play and then you look at apple and it cost a few dollars, its most likely due to the recurring costs to maintain a developer account.
Also, Apple doesn't allow torrent clients, You can't use firefox with ublock origin on iOS.
(But then again, these advantages could also go away in a few years... 👀)
There is a "firefox" but its just a re-skinned safari basicly, because Apple has some weird requirement of using their "webkit" or whatever, and no extensions allowed on the "firefox". I used an iPhone before (because I was a young adult and iPhones looked shiny) and I was so sad to find out I couldn't use uBlock Origin on it. And then finding out torrent apps are non-existent just made me cry.
Yes they do have "adblockers" like Brave or those Adguard thing on safari, but those are dogshit and they broke like half of the time, and many ads get through anyways, especially on youtube (where as uBlock Origin only break sites like 5% of the time).
Friend you can buy a much cheaper android phone, which is why I don't really care much about this, though it is still obviously bad. I hate my phone, I hate cellphones in general, they're shitty feature locked mini laptops with a subscription so I can, what, make and receive 12 phonecalls a month? Download half a gb when I'm out of wifi range? Use google maps, the literally only truly useful thing my cellphone does for me?
Anyway, because of my disdain I buy the absolute cheapest cellphone on the market that has no attached plan, once every three or four years. I got a new one last month.
It cost thirty bucks. My monthly unlimited talk and text and data plan comes to about 22$ a month.
It's a piece of shit, obviously. But if all you're doing is begrudgingly using it to make a couple calls, send some texts, scroll Lemmy while you're pooping and occasionally use a map the price is appropriate.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I'm glad I stopped expecting logic from you people.
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I added, "if I can't find a linux one that is suitable for my needs". And I mean it, I will spend the time and energy for due research when the time comes to change it. I am a long time linux OS user in my personal computer so I won't shy away from using a phone if the OS feels different to android.
All I am saying is after this consideration, if I am left between iOS and android, I will go iOS because of how blatantly disrespectful google has become of it is base users in the last 5-10 years.
Not really, it is more like saying "I am going to move to another dictatorship". In both cases, lose enough of your "members" and your organisation becomes significantly weaker.
Also iPhone has been quite constant about its motivations and priorities quite from the start (even if did not announce it publicly lol). Android however was a product of a company who started its life with the motto "don't be evil" and is now trying to monopolize the shit out of everything, including its users free time. I am not even sure this can even be classified as a lesser of two evils scenario anymore.
Is there other alternatives to Apple and Google phones?
There are phones that run on other platforms, but the app library and hardware isn't competitive.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_…
You could also move most of what you do to a tablet or laptop if you're willing to carry that, and just use the phone as an Internet access device and for phone calls.
EDIT: Or use a cell modem for data and SIP service for phone service and texts, though then you need to have a device that you'll keep on if you want to get incoming calls when they come in. Cell phones are pretty optimized for low idle power usage.
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You're pissed about it? Visit here: opencollective.com/postmarketO…
IMHO that's our best shot. Totally Google free, mainstream Linux kernel.
Here you can see current state: wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Dev…
In theory it will just be another Linux able to run on everything Linux supports + Android hardware. Honestly I don't know if it will ever run on common modern phones but it should at least be possible to run it on more "open" phones like Fairphone or PinePhone.
These are the most supported devices, maintained by at least 2 people and have the functions you expect from the device running its normal OS, such as calling on a phone, working audio, and a functional UI.
If the above is where we are at still with PostmarketOS, it will be a decade or more before it is anything more than a curiosity. The table stakes of what people, even us tech nerds, expect from a smartphone fit for daily use is so much more than "it can make phones calls and the UI works" it is not even funny.
That’s not how you spell UBports.
I do support the PostmarketOS project, but it has much further to go before it’s friendly enough for regular people. Short of Valve releasing a Steam phone, I think UBports is better positioned to bring genuine linux to mobile.
UBports Installer • Ubuntu Touch • Linux Phone
A friendly cross-platform Installer for Ubuntu Touch. Connect a supported device to your PC, follow the on-screen instructions, and watch this awesome tool do all the rest!devices.ubuntu-touch.io
Yeah I agree. I've used PMOS as well as Lineage and Graphene.
The latter was the best experience and PMOS was the one that needed the most work, at least to reach any sort of side adoption.
I'm actually looking at something running SailfishOS as my potential happy mid-point, but currently the Jolla phone - which would be my preferred device for this - doesn't seem to shop outside Europe yet.
No one here is talking about regular people. Regular people will keep using stock Android.
UBports still relies on Android kernel and services. Custom ROMs are such a small part of the Android ecosystem that I didn't think Google will go after them yet they did. Can we be sure in a couple of years they will not try to destroy Android based distros like UBports?
I also don't really like the entire idea behind UBports. It's so heavily modified you can't even easily run native Linux apps so you're limited to Ubuntu Touch apps. As a developer I'm not really interested in learning completely new framework that supports only one platform. We have solutions to create cross platform Linux-Android apps so I can move my apps from Android phone to PostmarketOS without any work, they already work there.
So I'm supporting PostmarketOS and I really hope it will be usable when my Pixel phone dies. If not I will switch to something Halium based. What else is there to do?
Does anyone know anything about Furi Labs phones? I saw a comment about them on another post about Android alternatives midwest.social/comment/1956866…
I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: furilabs.com/Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.
Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:
* clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-…
* news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1f…
* reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j…
* theregister.com/2025/02/03/fur…I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.
FuriPhone FLX1: A Debian-powered brick that puts GNOME in your back pocket
: Fun with a FOSS-focused Phosh fondleslabLiam Proven (The Register)
It used to be a pocket computer, now its just a mini-prison-cell.
If anyone is using currently using a flagship phone, when your phone dies and you need a replacement: consider just getting a cheap $100 android phone then spend the rest of the money you would've spent on a flagship on a portable PC instead
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This is the route I went years ago. Not only do i not feel like lugging around an obnoxiously long buttonless 1kg remote control, within two months the display will be shattered because I sneezed, and I will have to buy a new one because replacing the screen costs as much as a new phone.
I know they do that shit by design. Why would the back side of the phone need to be made of fucking glass? It's literally the only reason I ever buy new phones, the screen is the only thing that ever breaks, and they never survive long enough to be "too old" to use.
I think I am just done with the whole concept of the convenient prepackaged tech product, and especially staying "connected" with them.
For example, I stopped wearing a smart watch this summer and it's been a positive. I was the type to wear it 23 hours a day and track my sleep with it and everything. It turns out that not instantly seeing every notification or knowing the exact minute of the day are not a big deal, sans are even good for me.
Part of what I've also done is use my phone a lot less and my linux desktop a lot more. I use it as a mobile communication device and not my computer for everything. I guess the next time I need to replace it I'll either get an iphone since everybody in my family has one, or I'll see where these wonderful Linux phone projects end up.
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In all fairness to smart watches, mine is what turned me on to regularly checking the UV index. That's an important thing for all people, but especially me because I have an increased skin cancer risk due to unrelated medical stuff. And it was extra-extra important this year because I have done a ton of good work outside this summer.
And to be more specific about my watch situation, there's more going on than just avoiding notifications. I have been minimizing the amount of stuff I keep on my person in general, right down to finally getting my wedding ring tattooed on this year. There are various reasons ranging from abstract introspective life improvement stuff to the practical where that outside work I mentioned was constant and pretty rough on anything on my hands/arms.
So even if I wore a nice mechanical watch, I'd probably still be going with the double bare wrists right now.
In all fairness to smart watches, mine is what turned me on to regularly checking the UV index.
Can't you just do that on your phone? Surely if the UV is high, you just plan accordingly for the day? Sunscreen, wide brim hat, stick to the shade where possible, etc. I can't imagine what benefit constantly checking the UV on your watch gives you. Even if it did happen to fluctuate for some reason, you would be wasting so much time constantly ducking in and out depending on what your watch says at any given moment.
Yeah you are absolutely right. I do just check it on my phone or PC now.
But having it constantly visible for the months or years I had it on my watch face etched the habit into my ADHD brain. It also gave me a feel for how weather and time of day affect it. But not in a way where I try to vibe measure the UV index. It reminds me to check the weather data. 😀
The only answer is money at that point. I don't know how much phones are these days, but aren't iPhones like $1400, but Android is like $900?
I may be wrong though. Last time I bought a phone was 2018, and it was $600. Still using it.
You probably didn't do it on purpose, but you made a comparison on Apple's terms, thus implicitly priveleging Apple.
Last thing Apple needs is us priveleging it.
I'm just saying Apple doesn't make anything close to a cheap stripped down $200 model.
I made the comparison based on feature set. For that you need an android flagship phone. Android DOES make cheap phones....but therexs no 1:1 comparison for Apple.
I’m just saying Apple doesn’t make anything close to a cheap stripped down $200 model.
Yes, I think that's exactly the point people are trying to make to you.
Apple A18 Pro vs Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 Elite: What is the difference?
What is the difference between Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 Elite and Apple A18 Pro? Find out which is better and their overall performance in the mobile chipset ranking.Versus
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
A $200 phone in 2015 is not the same as a $200 phone in 2025. I know from experience.
Those phones in 2015 were awful, but in 2025, they feel more like mid-range phones.
Edit: And $600 is pocket change? Sound like someone lived a privilaged life.
This 100%
I have used tracfone since 2012 and only bought phones from their store, sub $150. The budget phones today are so much better than the last 10 years.
I just can't wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year and it cost as much as a decent budget computer, but worse.
I just can’t wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year
Usually the people who replace their flagship phone every 1 - 2 years aren't paying full price for it, or at least not upfront. They are receiving trade-in and pre-order discounts, or spreading the cost out over a 12 - 24 month period through a plan with their telco.
I used my last phone for about 4 years. At that point the battery life was getting worse, and the coating to prevent smudges and make your finger slide easily had worn off in the middle. Even then it's still perfectly usable, I just wanted an upgrade and to get away from Samsung.
I don't understand the people that upgrade every year or two. In the last 5 years basically the only new development has been higher refresh rate displays and faker looking (more processed) camera images...
People who upgrade every year sell their old one at >50% the price.
So they don't fork over €600, they only do €250 or so.
Openness isn't just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
Identifying the devs is not in the "need to know" for Google. Google sells or helps to sell a general purpose open device where it is on us to exploit that device however we will.
Now Google wants to switch to a walled garden, moderated development model.
If Google promises it won't use those dev IDs to moderate development, their promise is only worth the wind it moves and the sound it makes.
Apple Revokes EU Distribution Rights for Torrent Client, Developer Left in the Dark * TorrentFreak
Apple has inexplicably revoked the EU distribution rights for the iTorrent app, and left its developer in the dark without answers.Ernesto Van der Sar (TF Publishing)
now while at first view, your sentiment is understandable, i actually kinda differ.
when you buy any product at any store, i believe that there has to be a legal entity behind the store that sells you this product, and the legal entity needs to be identifiable. i.e. if you run a shop and give packages to people, you need to show ID to open up that shop. i believe it is the same for charity organizations which give away packages for free.
now, why would it be different for apps? apps are software packages, and if they're given away, there should be a legal entity behind it that is identifiable. this isn't to surveil or suppress people, it's just how business has always been done, and for good reason so. businesses need legal representatives to operate, even if it's a charity, because otherwise there's nobody to "talk to" when there's issues, and also imposters would have an easy game.
that doesn't mean that you can't donate packages away on the streets. just put it in front of your front door and wait until somebody passes by and takes it, or give it directly into the hands of your friends, you don't need to open a business for that. just, if you do it regularly, interacting with people you don't personally know, there is a legal entity that represents that recurring activity, like a business or charity.
If i understand it correctly, even with the new changes, what can be done is that open software distribution sites like F-Droid can sign the packages instead of the original developers and therefore circumvent the identification of the original developers, and also you can still install unsigned third-party apps if you enter a command on the command line to disable ID certificate checking. it's just an extra step, not a block-all.
This change requires you to attach your real name when publishing software. That's all. You can still publish to and install packages from anywhere. This doesn't come close to Apple's complete control.
Google already scans packages you're installing for malware and alerts you and allows you to install them anyway. This gives that scanner one more tool to identify bad actors.
I haven't watched the video --- I would generally rather have text form content --- but if Rossman is announcing the same thing that I just read about elsewhere, it's not a removal of sideloading. It requires that a developer register and provide Google with personal information for Google to let them create packages. Assuming that Google is willing to let the F-Droid developers register an account (which I assume they have) and sign the F-Droid package, it should not restrict installation of the F-Droid package.
However, you wouldn't be able to use F-Droid to install any packages that didn't conform to Google's new requirements.
I doubt that the restriction is at the store app level, but at the package installation level. That is, I would expect that the F-Droid or Google's store app or whatever says "install this package" and the OS refuses.
developer.android.com/develope…
Starting in September 2026, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers in order to be installed on certified Android devices.Step 1
Verify your identity
You will need to provide and verify your personal details, like your legal name, address, email address, and phone number.
If you're registering as an organization, you'll also need to provide a D-U-N-S number and verify your organization's website.
You may also need to upload official government ID.
Step 2
Register your apps
You'll need to prove you own your apps by providing your app package name and app signing keys.
None of those have worked for me on Android since a couple of months.
Firefox with uBlock Origin is the last bastion, and don't think that's not on their radar.
They don’t care about those.
They want revanced and other ad circumvention tools out.
They ARE an ad company, you know?
As a user, you should be upset that a private company is controlling how you are allowed to use your device that you paid for with your money.
This would be like if Microsoft decided you could only run Microsoft-approved code on a computer you purchased, in some cases with a locked bootloader so you can't even change your OS.
Also, Google is (imho) already operating unethically when it comes to the app store (See Google v. Epic). I don't care about Fortnite, but Google really shouldn't be able to take a cut of random services just because it's running on Android.
Epic v. Google: everything we learned in Fortnite court
Updates on Epic’s big win versus Google in an antitrust trial over whether Android’s Google Play store constitutes an unlawful monopoly.Verge Staff (The Verge)
I think that other guy's comment about the ICE tracker app really highlights the most important problem: If only signed apps can run, governments can pressure companies to remove access to certain apps. Even if Google allowed posting the app, the author would have to de-anonymize himself, and Google would have to comply with the law if they were subpoenaed. They would definitely give up the author's name. It is an issue of freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to do with your device what you choose to do with it. You might not have a use for it (right now) but it's not necessarily something you'd want to give up.
And, honestly, I would personally be affected by this, eventually. I use an app called NewPipe to watch youtube. It already isn't available on the app store (violates google's ToS), and I doubt they'd let people install this even if the author properly identified themselves, because I use it to avoid watching adds and to be able to "subscribe" to channels without an account. I could just borrow my husband's premium subscription, I guess, but I really only use NewPipe to watch certain things, and it lacks the algorithmically driven feed (which I am actively avoiding, Google tends to suggest things that make you angry for clicks).
I don't want to drag this conversation into American politics, but I will say ICE has been doing things against USA law. Things are not great here. Even noncitizens have rights that need to be respected, and ICE is failing to do that. They have also arrested lawful residents, citizens too, in their sweeps.
The ICE tracker app is a protest app/ direct action sort of thing, not a tool for criminality. Surely you can see the value of being able to use technology to resist a tyrannical government?
By the way, do you want the USA government to potentially control which software can be installed on your phone? Google is an American company. USA courts could decide (international company) is violating (American IP law or something else) and instruct Google to disallow their app from being installed entirely.
They can pull apps off the app store now, and they do that, but currently you can still side load stuff.
If the ICE app is breaking the law, and ICE itself is breaking the law, two wrongs don't make 1 right. There are legal ways to protest.
Like I said, earlier if you aren't breaking the law then if someone asks you to ID yourself
, what's your fear? Loss of privacy?
You can't use privacy to hide the act of breaking a law.
Unless you're a developer it doesn't affect you anyway, you can still sideload apps. You just can't use a public highway like the internet to break the law and expect nothing to happen. I know it's not what any of you want to hear.
Tbh I'm not even sure the app is breaking any laws at all. Reporting on the presence of law enforcement is (not always but sometimes) protected speech here. I don't use the app, and I haven't heard that they are trying to arrest anyone in regards to it.
Honestly though... Have you thought through everything you're saying? Sheltering Jewish people during the holocaust was illegal in Germany.
Anyway, have a nice day, those are my thoughts.
You don't have a problem with Google dictating what you can and cannot do on your own phone? Seriously?
What's the benefit of that?
I guess I was brought up believing that if you do nothing wrong, theres no point hiding your identity.
I'm fine knowing the person who wrote the code of the app that I am about to install has had courage to identify themselves.
That's interesting, where did you grow up? I grew up believing everybody had the right to privacy. And to not provide your identity to strangers on the internet
It's like gay marriage. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. But don't support restricting the freedom of others because it won't effect you
You need an ID for those activities because it is required by law. Apples and oranges. Your argument is a logical fallacy of false equivalency.
A government dictating what you can and cannot do by law is a completely different thing than some random company telling you what you can and can't do with a device you own.
And again, if you're uncomfortable with that - then you still have the option of only downloading apps via the play store where identities are already verified.
So again, it's the gay marriage argument - do you support the freedom of others to do something you may not want to do? Or would you rather restrict others freedom when it doesn't effect you? If it's the latter, then I think you're an objectively bad person.
We're just not gonna see eye to eye on this.
I want privacy and freedom. You want Google to dictate what apps you can use even though it doesn't effect you.
You don't give a shit about people who rely on apps that aren't from the play store. You cant seem to understand why it's bad because it won't effect you. It's selfish
They are converging to become the same thing.
Its not any better on iOS, fyi, they too require Apple's final approval.
Jesus, how the heck is this called "sideloading is so easy on an iPhone"?
That's a nightmare procedure, and completely unnecessary.
Obviously Apple makes sideloading as hard as possible.
Sideloading being so easy on iphones
Is it easy? Apple has only made that change in the EU AFAIK, it's still a closed system all around the world.
You can research a phone you like and check if it has an unlockable bootloader, root it, and install something like LineageOS on it. It's fairly straight-forward, not super technically demanding, but it does require some tinkering and time setting up.
xdaforums.com is where the rooting kids hang out, post guides for specific models, upload images et c, you can probably do it in an afternoon with GPT.
The issue is that some apps, notably banking and official type apps, usually don't work as they rely on google services for operation. I solve it by having a cheap secondary phone that I only use for that stuff.
Oh, I almost forgot: FUCK YOU GOOGLE
yes. from what I understand, you will get a developer key from Google, and then you will sign your APK with your key.
you'll still be able to sideload apps that have been signed with developer keys. the main point here is that Google is forcing the developer to identify themselves.
adb shell settings get global package_verifier_user_consent
adb shell settings put global package_verifier_user_consent -1 # disable Play Protect
Same here, got a recent (so not completely new) Xiaomi 13T Pro. Very little crap on it and it has impressive specs like 16GB RAM, 1TB storage and a very good Leica camera.
I'd love putting Linux on it one day, the specs are almost as good as my main PC lol.
I expect however that Google will disable bootloader unlocking on future Pixel hardware.
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And for the same reason you cannot install on a rooted phone (or at least, you should not be able to do it)
im guessing the two possibilities are:
1. the developer signs the apk with their developer key
2. the user compiles an apk from the source code and signs it with their developer key
someone correct me if im wrong
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
What... the Fuck?
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Gonna have to elaborate on this because the European union has both good and bad people pulling strings.
If this is about chatcontrol. Scary as it is that the idea keeps coming back it has also always gotten shot down.
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them bringing it up again and again is a very significant problem. Imagine you're spending time with a girl and asking her to have sex with you. She says "no", and you simply keep asking her daily until she says "yes" once, probably because she's just not paying attention to your actual question on that day. Such a behavior would be recognized by most people as being improper, immoral and not in the spirit of "consent".
Now, the same is happening on the EU. They keep asking the same question after they already got an explicit answer, and such a behavior should be illegal by itself. No means No.
Apple now allows sideloading of apps
Apple allows as much sideloading as google wants to next near.
Yes, you can install from .iPa files, but you still need to pay 100€ a year to be able to sign the IPA files, otherwise you cant run them. as much as with googles new policy you now need to pay 25€ + your full name to get a signature, to sign the Apks with
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
afaik only in the EU?
> be me
> buy new phone, chose android cause I can install anything on it
> get free iphone from work
> sell iphone on ebay cause I can install anything I want on my android
> google doesnt want me to install anything I want
Fuck me. I kept the wrong phone.
If you are American, you should buy Chinese tech because the Chinese government is more interested in spying on and controlling its own people than you.
If you are Chinese, you should buy American tech because the American government is more interested in spying on and controlling its own people than you.
- Ask said worker to downgrade firmware, then, before they relock it, snatch phone and run out of the store.
Lmfao I just saw that video on reddit, it was so bizarre
not disagreeing in any way, but just sharing reputable sources on that statement before anyone says it is a "conspiracy":
bbc.com/news/world-latin-ameri…
aljazeera.com/news/2015/7/5/us…
Also, given that we are almost 10 years afte this article, I'm pretty sure any sane person (by that I mean someone who is not bolsonarist) can see where the (predictive) article agrees or disagrees with reality (past brazilian news and even memory of events):
themillenniumreport.com/2016/0…
US ‘spied on Brazilian president and top officials’
Whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks publishes NSA list of 29 phone numbers of top officials that were bugged.Al Jazeera
You trust China more? The State-Capitalist Authoritarian regime? They country that developed the spyware known as Wechat, which is currently monitoring most of the overseas Chinese Diaspora? LMFAO. Spoken like a westerner who never stepped foot on mainland China.
Why are people always being campist lol. Just because you think "your side" is is bad, doesn't mean you should just blindly support the "other side".
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The last thing I remember is it being a huge pain in the butt...
All of my old phones work fine as the last time they were updated. My 10 year old Sony xperia z3c would be fine except for security updates and it's only 3g, and the storage on it is quite measly. I still use it everyday for playing music, though.
Most of the speed issues are google bloat. Play services are absolute hogs, and anything that needs them will not work on this phone, but everything that doesn't is perfectly fine. So I'm basically stuck with f-droid apps. Which is fine, because it's a glorified iPod at this point
I bought a Pixel recently and for 2 days I tried to make it work. 2 whole days of fumbling pain! And I felt fucking horrible. Almost nothing is customizable and everything coated in a thick layer of AI. Every google app has dark patterns. Don't like it? Well too bad, apps like goog photos keep on asking if you want to upload your life with a recurring popup that tries to trick you. Don't want Google Search Bar? Well... you don't get to say no bitch, don't make me hurt you. It is not a healthy relationship.
So. I just took the plunge and flashed GrapheneOS. Graphene will take a bit of work getting replacements for some of my needed apps like mail and map. But there are lots of neat options and I'm having fun with it. Problem fixed.
I used the graphene web install. I booted up my Pi 4B+ and used gnome-disks to flash a MicroSD with Ubuntu 24.10 then installed the two packages in the web install instructions then I got Brave (I went to the Brave homepage and they have some curl option to download. I needed to install curl, did that then got Brave installed. Once brave is installed you have to disable browser fingerprinting memory reduction and disable the "brave shield" (the little shield near the address bar) for the web installer GrapheneOS page. (It's a fresh install, on a Pi, and I know the site, no real risk)
After this you can just press the big buttons on the page and follow the instructions on the page.
There are many ways to do this. They have lists of compatible browsers and operating systems. I picked (eww) Ubuntu and (eww) Brave because they seemed easiest on the list and I did not virtualize or use containers in any way cause it messes up the webUSB magic the website uses. I like to play it safe as possible when firmware is involved so I didnt speed up the instructions. And also when you buy a Pixel, big thing! Turn on dev tools and toggle your oem bootloader setting off and on again. If it can't do that you need to return the phone because it's locked down by carrier.
Well... I hope my long sleep deprived ramblings help someone else break their chains. Read a bunch about it before starting! Good Luck!
I mean, good on you to go for Graphene, but honestly a lot of stuff you describe is solved with a custom launcher. Search bar and customizability for example. I use KISS launcher on my private phone (Pixel 7) and on my work phone (Pixel 9), no issues with either of these topics.
The one thing I wholeheartedly agree with though is the cancer that is Google Photos and the peddling of backing up stuff.
~~DMA is only partly for choice.~~ Sorry, different act, but same group (EU). But the rest pretty much stands the same, the EU won't see it as malicious compliance, but as a great design choice.
commission.europa.eu/strategy-…
This is also huge part of it about being able to “prevent illegal” content.
“easier reporting of illegal content”
“less exposure to illegal content”
“level-playing field against providers of illegal content”
This will help give paper trails for everything, and that allows for easy reporting which is the bigger part of the DMA.
The EU’s Digital Services Act
A common set of EU rules that helps better protect users' rights online, bring clarity to digital service providers and foster innovation for online businesses.European Commission
Code signing offers slight protection from malware but not as you might think. If a company signs an installer, or executable then it tells you it came from them but not what it does. It could still be malicious, or it could be inadvertently bundled with malware in DLLs or scripts and you wouldn't know. You're just hoping the company has done its due diligence and you trust them to run.
Microsoft does have an antivirus system on top and fingerprints downloads too and applies some kind of trust score that is better if an exe is signed. There is probably no single mitigation that stops malware infection but apply lots of smaller mitigations in in depth and most people will be safe.
The irony is Microsoft still lets people run files ending with .scr way too easily. Much of the malware on torrent websites is a file ending with .scr knowing the OS will hide the extension, e.g. movie.mp4.scr appears as movie.mp4 in File Explorer and people click through and get infected.
So that in time, google's "unwanted" software will be starved of attention and funds to continue being developped and these "weeds" in their garden slowly wither and die
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Just an idea, im not doing this, nor do i know how practical it actually is.
You can't sideload in Linux.
"All" you need to do is reflash your phone and reinstall Android/Chromium (soon to be renamed Android).
Since you are not a certified supplier, the checking is not activated.
On Chromebooks the setting will be on, since they are used in schools, but since it has a terminal you can remove the block, it won't be simple, probably terminal commands and changing configuration files, but it won't be impossible.
So yeah we'll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we'll move to a Linux based OS phone.
Simple as that.
You forgot your /s
Expecting sarcasm to be understood in text is dumb. Too many dipshits exist to assume people arnt serious
I wouldn't call it dumb but maybe expecting too much from people now that convenience and hand holding is expected at all times.
*Canned laughter that fades into awkward reflective silence.*
Dude. On what hardware?
My 1 years old AND 4 years old Samsung phones now lock their bootloader.
Random, fly by night China phones won't have enough documentation or enough consistency in hardware to be a viable rally point for firmware devs, will they?
Don't get me wrong. I will buy exactly that Linux Phone for my next device if it gives me three browsers and enough untracked fundamental functionality like calculators and contact lists.
But I'm genuinely worried there won't be a hardware vendor in the game in my market (the land of Y'allQaeda) to sell me a compatible device that plays nice with the three mobile providers that still exist here.
This is the risk of "trusted computing" architectures. Who is governing the "trusted" part of that.
These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that's how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.
The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?
I'm not sure what that answer is right now.
I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years ... That's why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice.... Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there's a signature to ensure that the app hasn't been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it's security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?... Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We've been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That's how SSL works, that's how the Internet works, that's how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like... Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that's trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it's own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Thanks for sharing all of that. I got to think a little bit about stuff that normally I would take for granted.
Apple pulls iPhone torrent app from AltStore PAL in Europe
iTorrent’s developer has been blocked from distributing apps on alternative iOS stores.Jess Weatherbed (The Verge)
I don't have an iPhone to test, but google is showing mixed results so I can't confirm.
However, Ive been on android for about 20 years, never owned an iPhone, always android. I'd ditch it just for blocking it as a point.
- Android will require apps to be signed with real name signatures. You can install apps from anywhere.
- iPhone doesn't allow any apps to be installed except when downloaded from Apple through iTunes.
You can side load on iphone. I can't verify since I don't have an iPhone, but I'm seeing mixed posts online.
Either way, I'd change on the fact they're disabling going forward just as a parting middle finger.
Its only recently that most Android phone owners even used the internet features, now you need apps just to park your car.
There's nothing stopping someone from having you install malware from a pirate QR code someone puts over the proper sticker.
Where else are we going to go?
Apple pulls iPhone torrent app from AltStore PAL in Europe
iTorrent’s developer has been blocked from distributing apps on alternative iOS stores.Jess Weatherbed (The Verge)
I just hope that the Graphene devs continue to support the last supported versions of Android that allow installing apks.
I couldn't be happier with my P7 that has been running Graphene since day one. Zero Google. Zero problems
What do you mean ? There is ubuntu touch working in some phone.
I saw that there is some improvements, for the fair phone 5 it seems that it is working but no dual Sim possible and LTE phone calls.
You can check it out for your model on this site :
devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
Ubuntu Touch • Linux Phone
Ubuntu Touch is the open source phone that has freedom and privacy in mind. Supported by dozens of devices, with installer for FOSS fansdevices.ubuntu-touch.io
The openness of Android is the thing that kept me on the platform. Now that the openness is being removed, iOS is now more appealing.
Sadly, I think most of the customers that use Android never sideload a single app at all. I don't expect this to create a mass exodus, but a smaller one with power users.
I didn't get it. EU pushes Apple for sideloading option. Android will come with embedded Linux terminal support and you can even run native Linux apps on your Android phone with Android 15.
I guess some C-Level assholes forcing this change in Google but this does not make any sense...
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Racism Wrapped in Rural Warmth
Staying in my hometown means facing subtle prejudice in day-to-day life.Rana Banks (The Texas Observer)
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in reply to 🌎 Experiencia interdimensional • • •La imagen muestra a dos mujeres participando en una protesta. La mujer en primer plano sostiene un cartel con un dibujo de una figura con ojos azules y el texto en español que dice: "Que los ojos de los desaparecidos te persigan y el llanto de sus madres no te deje dormir." La mujer detrás de ella sostiene otro cartel con el texto: "Que los ojos de los desaparecidos persigan sin descanso a las madres, llanto de las madres te deje dormir." Ambas mujeres llevan mascarillas y una de ellas tiene un pañuelo en la cabeza. El fondo muestra un entorno urbano con árboles y edificios, y el suelo está mojado, lo que sugiere que ha llovido.
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