I don't think people are realising the danger the Fediverse is in.
The only thing stopping corporations and VCs taking over this place is that the Fediverse is spread out on many different servers, which makes it very difficult to purchase.
If most of the Fediverse ends up on mastodon.social, which is now a strong possibility, there will be nothing to stop most of it being sold to Musk or Zuckerberg or whoever.
The bigger mastodon.social becomes, the more likely a buyout is to happen.
(1/4)
The only thing stopping corporations and VCs taking over this place is that the Fediverse is spread out on many different servers, which makes it very difficult to purchase.
If most of the Fediverse ends up on mastodon.social, which is now a strong possibility, there will be nothing to stop most of it being sold to Musk or Zuckerberg or whoever.
The bigger mastodon.social becomes, the more likely a buyout is to happen.
(1/4)
Poliverso - notizie dal fediverso likes this.
reshared this
FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •-The Mastodon server software & API (though the current version is FOSS)
-The mastodon.social server, which has 1 in 7 of all Fediverse users
-The official Mastodon apps, now telling people to just sign up on mastodon.social
-The official website at joinmastodon.org
-The trademark for the word "mastodon", which lets them dictate terms to any server which uses it
This is a tempting package for any potential buyers.
(2/4)
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JenJen :heart_sp_pan: :twitch:, GoToSocial, Amolith e rag. Gustavino Bevilacqua reshared this.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •And it's getting worse. Mastodon gGmbH is now making official apps which direct people to sign up on mastodon.social instead of a random trusted server or choice of trusted servers.
The more people sign up on mastodon.social, the more tempting Mastodon gGmbH becomes as a takeover target.
(3/4)
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JenJen :heart_sp_pan: :twitch: e GoToSocial reshared this.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •➡️ *IF* mastodon.social becomes more than 50% of the Fediverse, either by total users or monthly active users, the rest of us should defederate it.
Sticking with mastodon.social because "that's where the people are" is pointless. Centralised growth will simply cause the governance problems we've seen on Twitter and Facebook to be replicated on here.
Growth has to be decentralised in order to protect the independence of all Fedi servers.
(4/4)
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nikol, Florida Ted, pettter e GoToSocial reshared this.
Crookedlilhouse
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •BentiGorlich
in reply to Crookedlilhouse • • •After a quick google search, here is a step-by-step guide on how to switch servers: https://nerdschalk.com/change-or-switch-servers-on-mastodon-step-by-step-guide/
If you want to find a server, https://instances.social has basically all of them, and at https://wehavecookies.social we always welcome new users.
Change or Switch servers on Mastodon: Step-by-step guide
Nerds ChalkZZ Bottom reshared this.
Karin Sorenby
in reply to BentiGorlich • • •METADESTROYER !! (He/Him)
in reply to Karin Sorenby • • •Experiencer (Mastodon)
in reply to Crookedlilhouse • • •Mastodon - Decentralized social media
joinmastodon.orgExperiencer (Mastodon)
in reply to Experiencer (Mastodon) • • •that's for accounts to follow, can't remember the one was for picking a server
Sally Strange
in reply to Experiencer (Mastodon) • • •Fediverse Observer checks all servers in the fediverse and gives you an easy way to find a home using a map or list.
fediverse.observerMartin Vermeer FCD
in reply to Experiencer (Mastodon) • • •Jens Ljungkvist :mastodon:
in reply to Crookedlilhouse • • •Hello!
There are a collection of servers on https://joinmastodon.org/servers, also on https://instances.social as well as on https://fedi.garden/
My server is also open, but mainly for people living in Sweden.
Servers
joinmastodon.orgWigbert B 🎻🏛🎭🎤🗞🎥📚
in reply to Crookedlilhouse • • •Here is my experience switching:
https://wigbert.medium.com/mastodon-migration-how-to-change-your-instance-server-and-why-97776abec52d
Mastodon — Migration: How to change your instance / server (and why)
Wigbert Boell (Medium)The Doctor
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Sure, the rest of us would be rid of mastodon.social, but if that instance is really that big then all we've done is turn them into another birbsite, and then there's the rest of us.
Defederation isn't as big a threat as it sounds, because if m.s is that big, it's self sustaining. It doesn't actually need the rest of the Fediverse.
ZZ Bottom reshared this.
Mx Amber Alex
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Don Whiteside
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Feoh🤓💾👁️
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •If the few try to silence the many, this often fails and they are in turn silenced. Witness the myriad open source projects that decide to fork and then simply die from lack of contributors.
Kristian
in reply to Feoh🤓💾👁️ • • •@Fedi.Tips
Doug
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Ursula Katherine Spiller
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •If choosing a server doesn't become much simpler, there is no way the direction will change.
nikol reshared this.
Ryan Hamel
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •For providing tips on how to use Mastodon and the Fediverse, you're actively leveraging your platform to spread opinions and propaganda, removing your status of being purely an informational service to the community.
reshared this
nikol e ZZ Bottom reshared this.
BöotesVoid
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Also, I feel that if any VC's decide to muscle in they'll go after ActivityPub like Google did with Android and Chromium. Makes them immune to defederation.
There's also the fact that while mastodon.social has grown substantially I don't think it's going to beat the coming corporate offerings in terms of actual marketshare
nikol reshared this.
BakersRelay
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •FoolishOwl
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Computers and communication are inherently complex, and apparent simplicity means you're being deceived and manipulated.
Brian Vastag
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jay🐅♉︎🚀🌞
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I'm happy I moved my backup account from mastodon.social to a smaller independent server a few days ago.
I really don't feel like bird situations over here.🙏
nikol reshared this.
David Hopeward
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •ᗰᗩᖇǤᗴ against Putin #NAFO
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Der Ansatz ergibt insofern Sinn, da viele schon vor dem Einstieg, durch die Suche nach einem passenden Server, völlig überfordert sind.
Ragashingo
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •"Come to Mastodon where we'll ban you for... coming to Mastodon."™
Mike 🍁✔
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •djvenus (she/her)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •ocdtrekkie
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •1. Probably a lot more of mastodon.social accounts are junk than you realize, come visit our local timeline, lol.
2. The app leans into a default server because it's the top reason people just... don't join the fediverse at all. Server choice is hard, and we should onboard people and *then* convince them to move.
3. Medium, Flipboard, Facebook's P92, etc. will absolutely dwarf anything Eugen controls as they grow into the fediverse.
miasmo
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Michal Špondr
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •CharlieBleu
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •What I hear in your statement resonates not of growth based upon freedom of choice; but rather, intimates manipulation and control. It’ll sort itself out as it will; and that, as I see it, is the whole point.
I see your point, but man things sure can get a bit paradoxical. Ain’t that just like life?
✌️
Gramix
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •1. I feel like 50% (or even 40%) might be too late and too big to change. We should try to wait for 20% or 30% before defederating.
2. Would it be a good idea to make a website for instances to pledge to defederate when mastodon.social reaches the target threshold to defederate, and also to create early visable pressure?
Jeff Fillian
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •OutOnTheMoors
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Lea
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •1) If a big company wants to "take over" as Twitter 2.0, they'll just do it-they don't have to buy m.s., which is teensy compared to what their size would be.
2) If fediverse keeps growing, there will be more and larger servers. Should we defederate from every one that gets "too big" and fragment the fediverse?
3) No one owns ActivityPub--the fediverse is safe.
smellsofbikes
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •stephen judkins
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Juggling With Eggs
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Erotic Mythology (hire me) 🌹
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Zach777
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •GP
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •You provide a valuable service yourself, don’t dilute that.
aristeon89
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Mark Wieczorek
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Step 2. There is no step 2 because you wont do it.
Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Chris Rory 🇵🇸
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •MaryPot
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I agree that the trend is not good. Too much in one place and too tempting.
If I ran a server with the name mastodon in it now, I would be looking for another URL.
GLW
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Us “regular users” may need instructions on how to migrate off of mastodon social.
Charles Herold
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •cowvin
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •maegul
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •It makes a lot of sense to start talking about what is required of platforms to be considered good fediverse citizens.
AFAIK, both Pixelfed and Lemmy actively encourage people to diversify into multiple servers.
Without a good set of ideas around what’s required, and why, it’s pretty meaningless to just get upset and predict nightmare scenarios. You need thought out principles and consequences.
☝️This is a good start.
Irenes (many)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •C.
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I think 20% would be a much better target - and I realize it's getting close now.
Maybe I should write a bot that just posts instructions on how to move your account to an independent instance, and point it at hashtags related to mastodon.social...
Richard
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •just like with #Cryptocurrencies the #Fediverse should guard itself agaist "#51PercentAttack|s"...
Zak
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •It's my position that general-purpose public servers should only defederate for being a source of content incompatible with that server's policies. A federated communication network where much of the network is inaccessible to many of the people using it loses its primary utility.
Johannes Ernst
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jemal Cole Loves Each Of You
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •HistoPol (#HP)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •In order to prevent your, alas not unlikely, scenario, migrating #toots/#posts would be my utmost priority regarding development.
Regarding the limited features on #Mastodon, I'd give #Akkoma a shot. This would possibly give the #Fediverse an additional boost, as the limited features on rival platforms are always an issue.
I hope that developers take notice of this scenario.
"The...
Brian M
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Alireza Ehteshami
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •dragonfrog, llama president
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •"Fog in channel; Europe isolated"
Earthling
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I use mastodon.world. Also a very good server, thanks to @ruud !
🤗
Wilson reshared this.
James
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jörg Seidel
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Pendolino70 ✅
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jan Walzer
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@scy
Jons Mostovojs
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •NeonkAaa
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Wuzzy
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •morri
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Boiling Steam
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Fritz Mills
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •michael
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Here's what Eugen said in an interview with the Financial Times in December 2022:
"Rochko told the FT he had received offers from more than five US-based (venture capital) investors to invest 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' in backing the product, following its fast growth."
https://www.ft.com/content/de808736-2e05-4c3b-a53c-55b170ae9efd (paywalled)
Twitter rival Mastodon rejects funding to protect non-profit status
Ian Johnston (Financial Times)MaryPot
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •AnneFromMtka
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •This is what I’m here for: “Mastodon’s independence, and the choice of moderation styles across its servers, [are] part of its attraction”. I’m on Spoutible 🐳, too, trying out both as alternatives to 🐦. I like both, but there’s definitely a positive creative and independent vibe here that is different from a monolithic “central server”.
Battle Masker
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fde808736-2e05-4c3b-a53c-55b170ae9efd
12ft |
12ft.ioDoug
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •lobster
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Money is an object of only vested interests.
We poor gullible freedom freaks are not so easily bought, enslaved and pawned …
For example I sold my sole to the devil for an empty phish can …
Fortunately I obtained nothing of value, from no one believable …
🙏🫶😸
Hella (old account)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Lizard
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Matthieu
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •GeRy
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •thepwnicorn
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Zitrone
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •also keep in mind that all this started out quite different than fb and the like, theres a _very_ different mission from day one, its floss, its a Ggmbh (wich might even protect from selling out?).
yet dangers are there, but on a complete different level than twitter has always been!
i'm not a fan of the default-sever-move, too, but: i never understood the mastodon-is-so-difficult-people
Henry Edward Hardy
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •One risk which concerns me is a "catch and kill" from Facebook, Twitter, or Trump's "Truth Social."
Mastodon.social being sold is one thing. Not good, but survivable.
Mastodon gGmbH or its assets such as the code being bought means serious problems.
Calling having independent federated servers an "ideology" rather than an essential feature, talking VC talk about "onboarding process" and so on, I think the ship has already sailed.
Leaving mastodon.social is the best early response
@feditips
Ryan Hamel
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •𝗌𝗆𝗈𝗄𝗎
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Nordnick :verified:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •nikol reshared this.
🏳️ Ben Soule :coffefied:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Raphael
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jeff Fillian
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Red Shirt Dude
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •OwnedByWuigi 🇬🇧🏳️🌈
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •BronMason
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •It sounds more like he kept some strings attached to the software & basically got others to shell out for expenses like servers, admins, maintenance etc, so that it becomes valuable without him putting up $$. My bubble is burst!
#fediverse
HistoPol (#HP)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •This practice should stop immediately.
Fabian ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 🐘
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •"Linux" is also a trademarked term (owned by Linus or the Linux Foundation). They just decided to not care how anyone uses it but they have to have it in order to protect it.
But I fully agree to all other points.
Pöppelwolf
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Not saying that this is fool-proof, but it surely disincentivizes a takeover.
Also not saying that this is an argument against decentralization, just helping to evaluate the risk you described.
In contrast to this, Google finds a Mastodon gGmbH in Benin (not Berlin), which looks like a holding. This seems a bit strange to me.
Alexander
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Rob Abram
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Fritz Mills
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jürgen Hubert
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I mean, it's not as if the shareholders could get paid out.
Connected Dots
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •2004, I proposed project institute to create the draw of people to common reality baseline, using various methods, capacity builders, etc.
Declan
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •tallship
in reply to Declan • • •Katherine Derbyshire
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •nikol reshared this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Granted, #ActivityPub as a #MultiVendor / #MultiProvider - #Standard will outlive #Mastodon anyway, just as #HTML & #JavaScript outlived #Mosaic & #Netscape.
At most Mastodon will die out like #ActiveX, #InternetExplorer & #Twitter nowadays and #Windows ["Server"] in the future...
Jeff Fillian
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Piousunyn
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Been hearing how Mastodon cannot be taken over by one Musky type of asshole.
Now on Mastodon, I am seeing this about Mastodon pointing specifically at Mastodon Socal can be taken over by one Musky asshole? WTF?
Emelia 👸🏻
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •§ 52 AO - Einzelnorm
www.gesetze-im-internet.deRicardo J. Méndez
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •The gGmbh gets to dictate terms to things that want to call themselves “Mastodon” - it doesn’t get to dictate terms to anyone running the code under a different name.
NeonkAaa
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Basically, it was you who gave Eugen that power. Or maybe it is not your https://fedi.tips/ that describes Mastodon as the only solution?
Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
fedi.tipsFritz Mills
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •FaBE
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jürgen Hubert
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Yes, this is obviously biased towards mastodon.social, but it's hardly a Microsoft-style monopoly. And what else are they supposed to do in the face of constant cries of "Mastodon is too complex to join!"?
Zaini :v_enby:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •The Doctor
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Feoh🤓💾👁️
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I SUSPECT that Eugen & Co are doing this from good intentions. The SINGLE biggest hurdle to Fediverse adoption, or at least what we hear the most kvetching about, is the fact that you have to decide which instance to join.
This is ludicrous for those of us who've 'lived here' a while, but in a world where people are used to being force fed by the Algorithm, choice is a burden rather than a boon.
I honestly don't know how to fix that.
From a concrete perspective, what should we do? Eugen owns Mastodon. It's an open source project, so if they go forward with this people are free to fork.
Or even better, perhaps this is an opportunity to signal boost other instance software that doesn't funnel everyone into mastodon.social?
nikol reshared this.
marc [sustain release] ✅
in reply to Feoh🤓💾👁️ • • •I feel, it is important to establish a variety of large trusted server instances. Its not easy for newbies to arrive here, so signing in on mastodon.social feels quite natural.
Also, many other large instances may include limitations like language restrictions....
@feoh
marc [sustain release] ✅
in reply to marc [sustain release] ✅ • • •However, I'm expecting more new users to arrive on specialised servers through dedicated communities.
At this point, it may even be helpful to join some forces on the main server to assist with and monitor the development of infrastructure costs.
But generally you are right. It's important to watch the development...
@feoh
Experiencer (Mastodon)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I have a Calckey backup which has something like 700 or 800 users if something ever happens though.
Feynman 🔴
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Moon :akibafied_pink:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Ryan Hamel
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •No one has to use the official apps, they simply just exist. Mastodon is trademarked to protect the name. If the owner doesn't do it, a malicious person would.
R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •This is very, very bad.
Mastodon does not need a BDFL. It should belong to all of us.
Chaotic Insanity
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Berg Am Laimerin
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •There are very very hard terms to use or pull any created capital.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinn%C3%BCtzige_GmbH
Rechtsform für Gemeinnützige Firmen in Deutschland
Autoren der Wikimedia-Projekte (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)testing
in reply to Berg Am Laimerin • • •Berg Am Laimerin
in reply to testing • • •https://www.handelsregister.de and searched for the HRB mentioned at https://mastodon.social/about with Register Court "Berlin(Charlottenburg)".
This company is really non-profit. It is created that way.
#MastodonIsNotForSale #gGmbH #MastodonGGMBH #gemeinnuetzig #NonProfit #LookAtTheHandelsregister #MastodonDotSocial #NoPanic #KeinePanik
Mastodon
Mastodon hosted on mastodon.socialBetterifyouneil
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •#SeparateButEqual
Let others on his team moderate their own social instance.
People need to leave Twitter in a jiffy, .social is the catch all. It will be lovely when all our toots can easily migrate with us to any instance/server instead of feeling like starting fresh.
Maybe I'll feel artsy for six months, maybe I'll want to nest in travel for two months...
nikol reshared this.
Richard Grant
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •qclak
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Gabriel H. Nunes
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Wilson
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •And under that dropdown could be a list of tags of interests you could tap-to-check that would allow it to suggest interest-based servers (interest-based servers can include a list of interest tags).
Justin Macleod
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jcrabapple
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Vincent 🌻
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Fish Id Wardrobe
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •If mastodon.social pulls anything, we *will* all block it, and more servers will spring up.
This is literally as per Eugen's design.
Simon Lucy
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jeff
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Like it or not, most users don't care about the theoretical implications of using a technology; they care about the practical ones.
If users are afraid of centralization, then they can choose any other server.
If they don't care, then directing them to one main server is an excellent solution.
The people who disagree with this are just staunchly against centralization of any kind and want everyone to be like them
JohnW
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I do hope that accounts that have been on Mastodon Social for a while consider migrating to smaller, more personable instances.
If enough accounts migrate (as a continuous thing), it would keep the risk somewhat lower at least.
erfty
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@pineywoozle
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •The Cadence Collective
in reply to @pineywoozle • • •Jeff Fillian
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •How To Love Comics
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Can Mastodon seize the moment from Twitter?
Nilay Patel (The Verge)Ryan Campbell
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Piousunyn
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Answer: Supreme Court Justice.
Eric Lawton
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I think the issue is legal ownership, rather than servers.
Cooperative ownership of many instances, where major decisions like selling or constitutional change have to be approved by super-majority vote, would be a stronger guarantee than just many instances privately owned or controlled by a small number of people.
AGM
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •thepwnicorn
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Christo
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Tinu - Empress of Twerk
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Is Mastodon.social nonprofit? Would this not preclude a purchase per the rules of pursuing profit in capitalism.
Could we not solve some of this via migration? I have four accounts. I don’t care which is dominant if I can figure out how to keep my network.
Has anyone brought this to the attention of the admin?
Blue sky is basically a Mastodon ripoff- per same wack profit rules they stole it, why also buy it?
Edward
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesellschaft_mit_beschr%C3%A4nkter_Haftung#Gemeinn%C3%BCtzige_Gesellschaft_mit_beschr%C3%A4nkter_Haftung
"company with limited liability" in different countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein)
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)KristFist
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Colby
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •pino
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •In the end, you screw up with it anyways, because:
The bad girls/guys have fun, interesting challenges, profit, success stories, helping hands, power, energy, resources, incentives, motivation, ...
The good ones have children, Netflix, a partner and a job (and brutally dropped everything else on the way).
Richard Kay
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Larry Cannell
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •𒀭Ralf Muschall🐙-
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Corporations like FB will run their own mastodon servers, offering better service than the current ones (like higher speed, unlimited space for pictures, videos etc., well-staffed hotline that really helps, ...). They can do that simply because they have money. In the next step, they'll add cool features which aren't open-source. After collecting enough users, they defederate, taking the users with them.
This has already happened once with XMPP where both Google and FB defederated, thereby taking encryption away from people (back then, encryption was implemented as a plugin on top of free chat clients which stopped working, forcing users to use the corporation-provided client).
Mister Shade
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •So I admit I am reluctant to leave my new instance, which seems larger and more reliable. Are there particular alternative instances that you recommend?
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •joliet :kirbyverified:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •We Want EVERYTHING! 🌹
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •HistoPol (#HP)
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Of course, everything has its price, so also this loss could be compensated.
https://www.winheller.com/gemeinnuetzigkeitsrecht/gemeinnuetzige-gmbh/verkauf-ggmbh-anteile.html
Peter Butler
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •If dot social gets sold and there’s any deterioration in service (like ads), who stays?
Down10
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •tallship
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •For starters 'Fedi.Tips', I don't do #hellthreads, but just going by the timbre of your post I'm responding to here, I gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised.
I rarely boost anything of yours coz it usually sounds like you're a masto cheerleader instead of a Fediverse advocate - no offense, just my personal observation.
Second - it's exactly what Eugen wanted for his "Brand", and he's caused enormous damage by creating a deprecated, legacy monolithic silo.
Yohan Yuki Xieㆍ사요한・謝雪矢
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •But how can we make people explore the fediverse when:
1. People falsely assume that #Mastodon is the #Fediverse / #ActivityPub. That's like saying #China is #Asia.
2. When something is lacking in Mastodon, people assume it is the Fediverse / ActivityPub that is lacking. That is like saying chicken is the worst food because you've tasted McDonald's chicken, when there #Jollibee's #ChickenJoy is tastier and juicier.
There are now even people who praise a non-fediverse network based on those false assumptions above. They have time to research a non-fediverse network, but doesn't have the time to do their due diligence about the Fediverse; all because they falsely assumed they've seen everything.
It's like moving to a new country, settling in a new home, exploring their new neighbourhood, and then assumed that village they're in is a representation of the entire country.
If we can make people see, and make people explore their own “city” and “country”, then maybe, just maybe, the distribution of people in the fediverse will start to balance between the different forks, projects, and instances. It won't happen overnight, but maybe we can plant the seeds.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to Yohan Yuki Xieㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 • • •counterpoint: what I can see is pretty limited, and seeing anything else is difficult by design. Normies do not care about how hard it is for the system to be taken over. The barrier to entry is presently too high to attract the non-enthusiasts that actually say interesting/funny stuff.
Community seems to be mostly people already invested in #fediverse rather than people who are only incidentally using the fediverse to create. Big difference
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@ouij @youronlyone
If all someone cares about is convenience, why not just stay on Twitter? Why come to a decentralised network and demand that it centralise? It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and complaining they don't serve meat.
The solution isn't "choose a larger instance", the solution is to discover people to follow through many different methods: https://fedi.tips/how-do-i-find-accounts-to-follow-on-mastodon-and-the-fediverse-how-do-i-find-my-friends/
And for admins, the solution is to use hashtag/instance relays: https://fedi.tips/using-relays-to-quickly-expand-a-servers-view-of-the-fediverse/
How do I discover accounts to follow on Mastodon and the Fediverse? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
fedi.tipsFediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@ouij @youronlyone
The problems on Twitter, Facebook etc are a direct result of their structure, they inevitably "enshittify" because they are owned by a single company that will keep pushing to squeeze more and more revenue from a saturated market. They are incentivised to exploit their users in ever worse ways.
Yes this place is structurally less convenient, but it's the structure that keeps it from turning to crap like Twitter.
People have to choose their priorities.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@youronlyone again, I’m here incidentally. The network exists and I figured I’d give it a shot. That is usually how these sorts of networks grow.
I am currently struggling to find things to follow. I appreciate the hard work you’ve been putting in to make that easier. But it’s not work most casual users will probably want to put in. And that’s going to affect who gets on and stays on the network.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@ouij @youronlyone
"But it’s not work most casual users will probably want to put in."
The methods I listed in the link above are not *that* difficult. They're the kind of thing people did online before Facebook etc existed.
I know it can take getting used to different ways of doing things, but once you're over that barrier it's pretty simple.
Even simple things that people have done for decades can seem difficult if you're not used to them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNEzndgiFI
Hilarious video show 17 year old teenagers baffled by rotary phone
YouTubeJames Endicott
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •FediTips has moved!
in reply to James Endicott • • •@o76923 @youronlyone @ouij
The reason Twitter is run by a bad person is precisely because of its simpler structure.
Putting an entire social network onto one instance means it can be very easily sold to anyone with money.
The same thing that makes it convenient is the same thing that makes it vulnerable to being taken over by Musk etc.
It's much harder for anyone to buy this place, because it's spread out on thousands of independently owned instances. The complicated structure protects us.
James Endicott
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Literally yesterday you were advocating for a feature that would make discovery easier/UX simpler for following others. On a technical level, it would require implementing changes that reduce incentives for centralization.
You demonstrably know that convenience isn't the same as centralization. I have no idea why you are bullying @ouij@tambayan.us for asking that the Fediverse be more convenient to use.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to James Endicott • • •I'm not sure if "bullying" is an appropriate way to describe what I wrote? Was there some particular phrase I used that was inappropriate? Please do let me know if I am overstepping any marks.
I was responding to the section "What I can see is pretty limited, and seeing anything else is difficult by design. Normies do not care about how hard it is for the system to be taken over."
With this phrase, @ouij seemed to be asking for centralisation.
1/2
FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Non-techy people may think they don't care about how hard it is for a place to be taken over.
But they do care really, because we've seen the vast number of people unhappy with the behaviour of centralised social networks. That's why people are leaving Twitter.
The technical side of things and the effects of the technology are two sides of the same coin. You cannot have a centralised network that is safe from people like Musk.
2/2
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@youronlyone @o76923 I wasn’t asking for centralization.
I observed that I have certain frustrations with the platform, and the advice I keep getting from other users boils down to “your instance is too small, join a bigger one.”
If that’s what solves my frustrations, then the biggest instance always wins.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •Luigi de Guzman
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@youronlyone @o76923 the vibe I get from a lot of advocates then shifts to “well good riddance we don’t need them.”
The small size and insularity of this user base relative to the larger non-technical population makes that kind of hostility more likely.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@ouij @youronlyone @o76923
“well good riddance we don’t need them.”
That is the opposite of what I do.
I spend my spare time trying to help new people. I run this account, my other accounts and websites to help non-technical people get onto here.
"non-technical users do not care about the structure of a network. They care about the messages they can send and receive"
If what you say is true, why would they leave Twitter? I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely asking.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@o76923 @youronlyone users are leaving twitter because their experience has deteriorated. Stuff they don’t like is propagated into their feed. Stuff they do like becomes harder to find. Their ability to access the network has been (rate-) limited. It sucks, and people decide not to tolerate an experience that sucks.
Is that a consequence of twitter’s structure? Maybe. But that’s not why people are leaving.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@ouij @youronlyone @o76923
Could you give some specific examples?
I think this discussion would be clearer if we talked about specifics?
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@o76923 @youronlyone so, see here.
https://qoto.org/@volkris/110816915773094018
This is a helpful explanation about why my feed seems so dead, and I appreciate it. But to me it boils down to: your instance is too small, and your frustrations are by design!
That’s a benign message, but to a normie the takeaway is: you are being frustrated so the system is working as designed
FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@ouij @o76923 @youronlyone
"the instance doesn’t search all of fediverse for it, but only searches through the limited number of posts that have happened to be shared to that one instance that you’re on."
...that's because of the decentralised structure.
If you want every post on every instance to be searchable from every other instance, you are calling for centralisation.
This isn't a "poison pill", it's just a consequence of decentralisation.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@ouij @o76923 @youronlyone
The technical costs of every instance trying to index all other posts on all other instances would be huge. Only megacorporations would be able to afford to run an instance.
However, there are ways for smaller servers to mitigate this using relays, especially relays based on tags:
https://fedi.tips/using-relays-to-quickly-expand-a-servers-view-of-the-fediverse/
Using relays to quickly expand a server’s view of the Fediverse | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
fedi.tipsLuigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@youronlyone @o76923 so the upshot is to find another instance, I guess?
Again, this is useful but not to an end user that doesn’t run his own instance.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@o76923 @youronlyone so once again: the system is Good because the user experience is Not Good.
I am utterly indifferent to centralization or decentralization. If there is a better way to find things/people I can read, I’ll do that.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •No, you're not reading my response properly.
It is not a deliberate decision to restrict things. It's a downside of a system that has many upsides.
There are no 100% good and bad options, there are only "least worst" choices.
"I am utterly indifferent to centralization or decentralization. If there is a better way to find things/people I can read, I’ll do that."
If you are utterly indifferent to the causes of your problems, you will never solve your problems.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •There are many easy-to-understand reasons why decentralisation is a good idea. These do not require technical knowledge to understand:
https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers/
Why is the Fediverse on so many separate servers? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
fedi.tipsLuigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@o76923 @youronlyone a good idea and a good experience are not the same thing.
Again: nobody ever got started posting on a network because they were intrigued by its structure.
FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •@ouij @o76923 @youronlyone
It's not about being "intrigued by a structure", it's about being appreciative of the effects of the structure.
I am not particularly interested in house building and construction codes for their own sake, but I appreciate the work of builders and legislators when my house is warm in winter and it doesn't fall down.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@o76923 @youronlyone in that case you have felt warm and dry, and so have benefited from the structure.
Imagine being told that you had to live in a stifling room or tolerate what seems to be a leaky roof because the structure demanded it
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@youronlyone @o76923 the upsides are diffuse and not relevant to what I want to do. The downside is discrete.
White cat, black cat—what’s the difference, so long as it catches mice
FediTips has moved!
in reply to Luigi de Guzman • • •The upsides are very relevant to what you want to do, because they tell you whether the solution will be effective.
Global warming is very relevant to a farmer whose crop yields are threatened by climate change. A farmer can choose to ignore climate science because it seems "diffuse", but such a choice will not help them solve their crop problems.
If your problems are caused by something, ignoring the cause will not help.
Luigi de Guzman
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@youronlyone @o76923 the practical takeaway is: I can only look for what is visible to my instance. So to solve that, I have to move to an instance that sees more. So users should join the biggest possible instance?
Again I am honestly trying to figure out why my feed seems so empty so I can break out what seems to be nothing but a feedback loop of fediverse self-congratulation
AskPippa🇨🇦
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I don't really know how it all works, but maybe there is a seed of an idea here?
William B Peckham
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Ellen T Wright
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •paul
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Cardboard Robot
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Boswell
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Auntie Denier
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Pepper
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •laus
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •@feditips
Berg Am Laimerin
Unknown parent • • •Ist halt Quark. Da hat jemand nicht Verstanden, was eine gGmbH ist.
(Das erste "g" steht für "gemeinnützig", da kommt man nicht so einfach wieder raus.).
Mary Hilton
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •TL;DR: make it easier to move your home base to another.
Ben Sahlmueller
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Jens
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Feoh🤓💾👁️
Unknown parent • • •So if that happened and they forked, then the FLOSS model is working as advertised and we're all good 👍
METADESTROYER !! (He/Him)
Unknown parent • • •Ryan Hamel
Unknown parent • • •Ryan Hamel
in reply to METADESTROYER !! (He/Him) • • •> not trying to centralize the system by the admins
Each instance has a centralized admin/mod team.
> having people realize the nature of the fediverse and move servers?
Not everyone wants to move servers all the time, but rather a stable and reliable server, like email providers.
> whats with the blaming the person trying to warn you of shit that happens all the time and trying to help figure out solutions?
This doesn't happen on mastodon.social 🙂
Francis Augusto 🇳🇴/🇧🇷/:bahia:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •- Mastodon code doesn't get written by itself. It needs financing, and @Gargron is doing a great work to secure it;
- There is a good community involved on the development.
- The only thing keeping folk to use forks is the stability of the current code. If the FOSS nature of it changes, well, it is easy to jump boats.
- Mastodon gGmbH is a non-profit organization. Dunno if one can have personal gain by a sellout.
Fish Id Wardrobe
Unknown parent • • •Ivan Maljukanović 🏳️🌈
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •If you know anything about the #openSource, is that it can't be bought.
The true danger comes from the #bigTech (closed) platforms joining fediverse.
They can (ab)use their money to attract more people to those platforms, than all of the open source platforms combined.
seeteegee
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •NeonkAaa
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Fritz Mills
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Alan Rycroft 🇨🇦
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •No problem if mastdon.social were to be sold out -- we'll all just block the server!
Clayton
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •otheorange_tag
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Till
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Why?
Switching instances is easy. As long as mastodon.social is part of the federation, every user can switch to another pod and still keep in contact with all their peers.
If mastodon.social is defederated, people would (again) leave their peers behind, when they switch to another instance. A lot of them will not want to do that.
Keep mastodon.social federated and everyone who doesn't like, where it is going, can easily switch to somewhere else in their own pace.
Also: A lot of people who come from centralised plattforms like fb or Twitter, expect Mastodon to have a single point of entry. A lot of people are overwhelmed, when they have to select a pod first. I single, "official" platform helps them to get into the fediverse. And from there, they can start exploring. They can realise, that they are writing to people from other servers, learn about different communities, clients, etc.
And then, they can still switch to a place, that suits them better.
If we take that single point of entry from them, they will likely choose another social media, that is easier to get into and promises to be better than [whatever they used before].
SmashedRatOnPress
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •caos likes this.
Till
in reply to SmashedRatOnPress • • •You can see posts of
* People you are following (independent from the server)
* People who are on the same server as you are
* People who are followed by people who are on the same server as you are.
That means, if you are on a server with a lot of people, the fediverse feels very alive. But if you set up your own server and don't know anyone who you can follow (yet), there will be nothing but a vast and silent emptiness.
If you are new to the fediverse, it is very useful to be either on a very full server or on a server with people who have a lot in common with you. That makes it easy to find interesting people. And you can take that contacts with you, if you decide to migrate to a smaller server later on.
snowyfox
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Avviso contenuto: meta
Jakub Klawiter :mastodon:
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •Declan
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •tallship
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •I wish you wouldn't create serialized hellthreads.
Have you tried moving to another, more capable platform that can accomodate your posts? The one you're on cannot - that's for sure.
And who cares what happens to mastotron .social anyway? It's just a deprecated, monolithic silo that has outlived its usefulness. Just block that instance and move on - away from all of that #November Rain trash left over from the initial #twitugees that returned to Twitter now that the big freakout ended up anything to nothing at all when Elon took out the trash.
Boiling Steam
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •2) the instance model is the wrong model (that's a flaw of the current design) since it facilitates centralization within a decentralized network
caos likes this.
volkris
in reply to FediTips has moved! • • •But you might be missing the value proposition for that theoretical buyer.
They wouldn’t buy the instance without some value that makes the purchase worthwhile to them, and the ability for users to move to other instances should they provide a poor experience after the purchase is yet more reason that they wouldn’t make the purchase for bad reasons.
On the other hand, if a VC buys a major instance and provides a better experience for users, well more power to them!
A purchase is not necessarily a bad thing.
A purchase can also provide resources and leadership that can work for users too.
FediTips has moved!
Unknown parent • • •@ouij @youronlyone
"if you don’t like it/don’t get it GTFO)."
That would indeed be a terrible attitude, and absolutely NOT what I am saying. Apologies if that's how I came across, I didnt intend to give off that kind of vibe.
I'm just saying is a lot of the difficulty is from getting used to something different (like the teenagers and the dial phone). It isn't impossible to learn, and once you do learn it can become second nature.