No, he wasn't banned. That's why I included the link in the post, you can click and see he is there and not banned.
BS originally thought it was a fake account, but when they found out it was real they unbanned it, verified it and sent an email to Fox News saying he was welcome on the platform.
Bluesky are openly welcoming, verifying and hosting accounts of prominent far right politicians. Trump's VP Vance is now on Bluesky:
bsky.app/profile/jd-vance-1.bs…
"We welcome the Vice President to the conversation on Bluesky" (Bluesky in their email to Fox News)
More 🚩: Bluesky is centralised, run by a for-profit corporation, its CEO has blockchain background, it is partly owned by VCs & Blockchain Capital.
Bluesky are going down exactly the same Nazi Bar path as Twitter.
(via @mastodonmigration)
Poliverso - notizie dal Fediverso ⁂ likes this.
reshared this
@mastodonmigration
Not surprising that they open him with open arms "to the conversation".
As if you can converse in a meaningful way with fascists. 🙄
I wonder what happens should he or anyone from that sickening regime joins a fediverse instance.
Hello feditips.
I am a moderator at this instance you see me posting from, app.wafrn.net.
We have optional (read: opt-in) bluesky integration and we have just banned JD Vance
Yes, we can do that. Because yes, Bluesky is just a bit more open than you make it out to be 😀
That's a bridge, not actual federation.
And blocking just Vance is not defederation. It does nothing to isolate the instance that is hosting him and platforming him. If you want to defederate, you need to block the entire bsky.social instance.
No, we are not a bridge, here read our source code:
github.com/gabboman/wafrn/tree…
We ingest the firehose directly, we interact with bluesky directly. You can even view bluesky accounts like, say, bluesky's own directly: app.wafrn.net/blog/@bsky.app
Notice how there's no bridgy in there? You can check my profile on the bluesky side at bsky.app/profile/alexia.at.app… too ← Notice how there's no bridgy here either?
wafrn/packages/backend/atproto at main · gabboman/wafrn
Wafrn is a federated social media inspired by tumblr. Join us and have fun - gabboman/wafrnGitHub
If you are federating, are you now going to defederate bsky.social?
Or are you okay with them platforming fascists?
Are you going to take a stand on this or not?
Well to answer that we must first look at how bsky.social is just the auto-assigned domains for new users
the underlying servers are all hosted at subdomains of .bsky.network, luckily mary-ext / mary.my.id has a neat lil' GitHub repo that collects them all in one place: github.com/mary-ext/atproto-sc…
Now if we wanna specifically exclude content from the PDS that JD Vance is on, all I'd have to do is look up which one of these PDS instances vance's account is, nuke it from our database and stop ingesting content from that PDS through the firehose
For reference, we can use pdsls.dev to look up JD's server and determine it to be https://woodear.us-west.host.bsky.network/
problem is, unlike how fedi tends to work, the underlying PDS instances are assigned automatically; Vance didn't choose that PDS, it was chosen for him. As such straight up blocking this PDS from being indexed has about the same impact as blocking a large Mastodon instance like mastodon.social or something along those lines would have: We would hit lots of people that have nothing to do with vance, or are even actively blocking and shaming him
Now you are right in the observation that Bluesky PBLLC is choosing to platform vance, jesse singal and others; Their moderation is very akin to centrist beliefs, and as such quite weak in protecting especially those most vulnerable.
It's just that from a technical standpoint with how ATProto works, it doesn't quite make as much sense to block the server vance is currently on, it makes much more sense to block the account and associated did:plc identity ← This makes sure that even IF vance moves his account (although I'd doubt it) to another PDS, he will stay blocked on our infra.
GitHub - mary-ext/atproto-scraping: Git scraping of AT Protocol/Bluesky instances
Git scraping of AT Protocol/Bluesky instances. Contribute to mary-ext/atproto-scraping development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
"As such straight up blocking this PDS from being indexed has about the same impact as blocking a large Mastodon instance like mastodon.social or something along those lines would have: We would hit lots of people that have nothing to do with vance, or are even actively blocking and shaming him"
...in other words, too big to defederate?
That's a copout answer, shame on you.
If mastodon.social was hosting Vance, other instances would be defederating them including mine.
"Now you are right in the observation that Bluesky PBLLC is choosing to platform vance, jesse singal and others; Their moderation is very akin to centrist beliefs, and as such quite weak in protecting especially those most vulnerable."
"It's just that from a technical standpoint with how ATProto works,"
Maybe you shouldn't be using ATProto then?
It's designed to give large organisations more control than small ones or individuals, and you chickening out over this is an example.
@alexia This is an unnecessary focus on defederation imo: the line to be drawn is at an individual instance's discretion, not for you to specify when you aren't even a user of that instance.
In this case, they've assessed that there's sufficiently many innocent / good accounts which they want to maintain relationships with on bsky (or, equivalently, mastosoc) that it's worth the moderation overhead of banning the individual accounts instead to protect their users - something which is also a viable choice between ActivityPub instances, albeit rarely chosen.
Some instances are irredeemable: those whose purpose and entire user base is complicit in spreading hate and vitriol; that does not currently, ime, describe bsky overall, whose users have pushed back against Singal, Vance, and hell, even bullied Adobe off their platform (something fedi, in any other context, would usually be celebrating).
Freedom of association exists and should be one of fedi's greatest strengths. Would I agree with their assessment myself? Idk. But my opinion doesn't matter here as I'm not a user of their instance, so I'm unaffected. If I was affected, then my opinion would matter as to whether I defederated from them or not -- but again, thus far, their moderation has meant I've been unaffected by similar actors, so...
"the line to be drawn is at an individual instance's discretion, not for you to specify when you aren't even a user of that instance."
No.
This is absolutely the wrong approach to fascism and hatred. Once you leave it entirely up to individual discretion, you are opening up society to 1930s scenarios where hatred is mainstreamed.
I've tried to give an example here:
social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/…
Vulnerable minorities will suffer and die if you use an individiual block approach.
FediThing 🏳️🌈 (@FediThing@chinwag.org)
Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell everyone you're doing horrible stuff, the worst crimes imaginable. They make videos, articles, livestreams, all pushing the same lies designed to make everyone hate and fear you.Chinwag Social
It's vital that we drive fascists out of all mainstream discourse. They are not participating in good faith, they are participating in order to radicalise people to do acts of the worst kind of hatred and violence.
They don't care if individuals block them, because all they care about are those who don't block them. Those who don't block them can be radicalised into spreading hatred themselves, which radicalises even more people.
Fascism is a virus, it thrives on publicity.
I feel obligated to clarify, given that you have misrepresented my words in your reply.
I did not, at any point, talk about individuals blocking fascists. I talked about instances banning the individual fascists, rather than cutting off entire instances, as a choice of moderation style. I also agree that defederation is a valid option for instances, perhaps due to moderation burden, or because the remote instance in question is irredeemable.
An instance banning Vance means, on that instance, no user is capable of being radicalised by Vance's account. This is the same as if an open-signup instance banned Vance's account upon registration. This is the same result as defederating the entire remote instance for the sole reason that Vance is on there, except that otherwise innocent users on the remote instance are not caught in the crossfire.
Many of those remote users will not be aware of Vance's presence on their instance (especially when that instance is Bluesky), and therefore cannot be considered Nazis by mere affiliation: they have not interacted with him. Those users remain on that instance, and defederating will do nothing to protect them if he attempts to radicalise them; however, a moderation team can monitor the users of that instance and continually assess the risks and whether defederating later is reasonable to them. What can, in fact, sometimes happen is the opposite: the Nazi gets bullied out of there, or -- as in the Nazi bar analogy -- the users notice the Nazi and leave of their own accord (at which point I'm sure the calculus will shift in favour of defederation); perhaps such users move to fedi in this scenario, having not been ostracised for reasons they would not otherwise have understood.
Finally:
Does your instance currently block mastodon.social? If not, as some instances have out of concerns for its moderation & size, then that is an example of what I was describing which you quoted and responded "No." to.
No instance should be hosting a fascist who has masked thugs literally kidnapping people off the streets without due process.
Any instance that hosts such a person is itself supporting fascism, and should be shunned by everyone. Admins should defederate it, users on that instance should leave it.
The idea is to isolate not only fascists but those who tolerate and help fascism.
Fascism has to be resisted in every way possible, while such resistance is still possible.
If Fosstodon hosted Vance, you can bet it would be defederated by people who are on the fence.
I would personally defederate any instance that hosted Vance, including mastodon.social.
I've also spent lots of time trying to discourage large instances even existing, I run a site at fedi.garden and account at @FediGarden to promote good smaller instances.
Sensitive content
Precisely. I saw a number of their moderators dismissing and gas lighting the concerns of LGBTQ people in my feed
I don't see that on Bluesky. In fact when there is a trans /homophobic user there, they are dealt with swiftly by the community. Here there are often crickets, or when marginalized groups bring up concerns there is much defensiveness.
@alchemistsstudio @daemon_nova @alexia
"I don't see that on Bluesky. In fact when there is a trans /homophobic user there, they are dealt with swiftly by the community. "
Vance's first post is all about eroding trans rights, and Bluesky are sending emails to Fox News telling him how welcome he is.
I guess you care more about making a point then addressing valid concerns about trans/homophobia here on the Fediverse.
I find that sad.
JD Vance is not a moderator on Bluesky.
And believe me, the fediverse often platforms racism, transphobia, misogyny and homophobia. Here it can only be dealt with after the fact. On Bluesky its mostly dealt with proactively.
Currently, nothing on the fedi side.
We eventually plan to automatically check whether the boosted post is available via bridgy, and boost that on the fedi end (and vice-versa), but that doesn't exist in the software yet.
We take care of moderation ok ishly.
The model there is different than here same way they federate in a different way than us
I'm not being fucking smug, I'm being fucking angry and terrified.
People like Vance are threatening very vulnerable minorities who are shit scared of what will happen to them. People are living in fear and terror. If you're not even addressing this then you are the one who needs to do more research.
No one should have anything to do with anyone who welcomes people like Vance.
dont get me wrong I also love being a smug cunt. its fucking adictive.
But seriously, the federation architecture is VERY different.
Do you love being scared that fascists are going to beat you up or kill you?
Because that's the effect Vance has on vast chunks of vulnerable minorities.
Maybe you could stop joking about this and address this seriously.
I'm not being smug about Bluesky, I'm being scared and angry. Can you have some empathy for that?
I don't give a shit about tech, I give a shit about people who are scared. If tech exists, it should be to protect such people.
man, the sheer gall you have to bring minorities into this...
Like bannuh, you do realize that fedi treats people of colour abhorrently badly too, right ??? (hell, it's way, way, wayyyy worse for us over here ! )
So dude, don't go trying to rope in minorities into this, as it's awful over here on fedi for us !!
And as a person of colour (and I'm confident that folks like me feel the same way), I'm saying this- that we don't want you to use us as convenient shields for your misinformative self.
And if you don't like us saying that, then you can go and take yourself back to whatever cushy, white suburbian hell you came from.
I think there is some misunderstanding here?
Vance's Bluesky post is attacking queer people. I'm not "roping in" anyone, Vance and the far right hate me as a queer person.
In my part of the world the word "minorities" is pretty general and also covers queer people, disabled people, language minorities etc.
I don't know if this is an American vs European english thing, but I'm talking about vulnerable minorities in general, not specifically ethnic minorities.
@GroupNebula563 @gabboman @alexia
"secondly, some things aren’t worth arguing over"
Fascism is worth arguing over.
Calling me a "smug cunt" for trying to warn against fascism is just... there's no words. What are you thinking?
Do you think this is some kind of childish tech vs tech dispute like Mac vs Windows?
I run these accounts purely to try to stop the spread of fascism and hatred. Any tech that helps in that fight, I promote. Any tech that hinders that fight, I warn about.
@GroupNebula563 @gabboman @alexia
If you think I've got a tech wrong that's fine to discuss, I do discuss things regularly and I often message developers to find out more. But hateful name calling and patronising and avoiding mentioning the Nazi elephant in the room is not the way to do it.
I can assure you I'm not. I am terrified about what is going on.
I don't care what protocol is used as long as it makes federation accessible and controllable by anyone including very-low-cost grassroots instances that can communicate without relays.
@gabboman
Hi, question. If a user on your instance who is opted-in to Bluesky integration boosts a post from someone on another fedi instance, is the boost ingested by Bluesky?
Your insistence on believing there is a single bsky.social instance is commendable, for sure
Multiple people have explained to you over time how there is no singular bsky.social instance (as they have an entirely different technical model) and how blocking the server is less effective than deplatforming the user.
Because again, account moves are more powerful on Bluesky than they are on fedi.
Maybe you should do just a bit more research into how ATProto works
You're not really selling AT Proto if this is your approach.
Maybe you should take a bit more action against fascism instead of hiding behind technicalities and promoting something designed for corporations above individuals?
Using compulsory relays is hardly the way to democratise social networks.
If it's actual federation, are they going to defederate bsky.social?
If not, why not?
Are they comfortable with the platforming of fascism?
Here's your answer
app.wafrn.net/fediverse/post/f…P.D.: I have seen suggest like 5 posts on my timeline doubting about federating you. May want to backtrack
Well to answer that we must first look at howbsky.socialis just the auto-assigned domains for new usersthe underlying servers are all hosted at subdomains of
.bsky.network, luckily mary-ext / mary.my.id has a neat lil' GitHub repo that collects them all in one place: github.com/mary-ext/atproto-sc…Now if we wanna specifically exclude content from the PDS that JD Vance is on, all I'd have to do is look up which one of these PDS instances vance's account is, nuke it from our database and stop ingesting content from that PDS through the firehose
For reference, we can use pdsls.dev to look up JD's server and determine it to be
https://woodear.us-west.host.bsky.network/problem is, unlike how fedi tends to work, the underlying PDS instances are assigned automatically; Vance didn't choose that PDS, it was chosen for him. As such straight up blocking this PDS from being indexed has about the same impact as blocking a large Mastodon instance like mastodon.social or something along those lines would have: We would hit lots of people that have nothing to do with vance, or are even actively blocking and shaming him
Now you are right in the observation that Bluesky PBLLC is choosing to platform vance, jesse singal and others; Their moderation is very akin to centrist beliefs, and as such quite weak in protecting especially those most vulnerable.
It's just that from a technical standpoint with how ATProto works, it doesn't quite make as much sense to block the server vance is currently on, it makes much more sense to block the account and associated
did:plcidentity ← This makes sure that even IF vance moves his account (although I'd doubt it) to another PDS, he will stay blocked on our infra.GitHub - mary-ext/atproto-scraping: Git scraping of AT Protocol/Bluesky instances
Git scraping of AT Protocol/Bluesky instances. Contribute to mary-ext/atproto-scraping development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
"I have seen suggest like 5 posts on my timeline doubting about federating you. May want to backtrack."
What does that mean? Is that some kind of threat?
Have you defederated from Mastodon.social and Mastodon.online after years of Black and Brown folks pointing out the harassment, antiblackness, Islamophobia, etc
You make a lot of noise but are you backing it up? There’s been CSAM on .social, did you defederate? Stop spouting as if you know what you’re talking about when you consistently look foolish
1. You're accusing me of being performative
2. You're saying people should defederate from mastodon.social
3. You're posting from an account on mastodon.social
I regularly post about how being on mastodon.social is a bad idea due to poor moderation and putting the network at risk, I have a whole article about this: fedi.tips/its-a-really-bad-ide…
Mastodon.social blocks my posts from trending there because they were so pissed off with this.
Mastodon.social is not a good way to join Mastodon. If you’re already on it, you might want to move your account to a different Mastodon server. | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediversefedi.tips
@McWabbit Bluesky invited somebody for a discussion. Discussions are good. Discussions help us to shape or rethink an opinion. They did not invite him to post propaganda (although it will be interesting to see, how Bluesky reacts, if he does)
If you want a fediverse, which blocks discussions, because you don't like the other person's (extreme) opinion.... Is then bluesky the problem? Or maybe it might be you?
Get lost with that "tolerate the intolerant". How often do people have to point out the tolerance paradox? How often do people be reminded that right extremists don't care what your intentions are as long as they gain attention and power from it? Western societies atre past the time when we had enough freedom to discuss with those that have "different opinions". We've done that and look how well we dismantled them: they sit in every government.
@t_robinart @McWabbit Not everyone at Twitter is a Nazi. But those, who are attracted by ultra right ideology, will more likely join Twitter, if Vance or other fascists only post there.
If somebody like Vance now joins Bluesky, young politically disappointed people might join Bluesky, too. And there they are reachable for other opinions and ideas, which have no voice at Twitter.
There is nothing more dangerous then isolated bubbles in social media.
@dideldum @t_robinart @McWabbit
"And there they are reachable for other opinions and ideas, which have no voice at Twitter. "
No, it doesn't work like that.
When you give fascists a broader audience, you simply get more fascists.
All you do is normalise fascism in mainstream discourse, and people who would have previously stayed away from it suddenly think it's okay to do fascist things.
The only effective response to fascism is to make its audience and reach as small as possible.
On Bluesky you can subscribe to a Maga block list. It's a seamless experience and automatically blocked him for me before I heard he was there.
Here on the fediverse I encounter more homophobia than on Bluesky and fewer people speak up about it sadly.
Here I'll stumble upon admins of an instance defending a moderator who blocks LGBTQ hashtags and quotes homophobes in their profile because of 'free speech'.
It's not enough to block these yourself.
Fascists don't care about people who block them.
Fascists care about people who don't block them, because they can radicalise them into believing and spreading hateful lies about vulnerable minorities.
I've tried to give an example here: social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/…
FediThing 🏳️🌈 (@FediThing@chinwag.org)
Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell everyone you're doing horrible stuff, the worst crimes imaginable. They make videos, articles, livestreams, all pushing the same lies designed to make everyone hate and fear you.Chinwag Social
You've literally responded to nothing I've brought up.
Jd Vance is blocked by 30% of the users on Bluesky. He has no power there. On the fediverse there is a moderator on a bigger server who has blocked lgbtq/trans related hashtags and quotes a homophobe in their profile.
If you are trying to protect people from fascism, and hopefully homophobia I hope you are calling out fosstodon too. I didn't stumble on jd Vance on BS, but stumbled on them dismissing LGBTQ people here
"Jd Vance is blocked by 30% of the users on Bluesky. He has no power there."
Having 70% of a platform to talk to is a tremendous amount of power. Even if it was only 10% that would still be millions of people to potentially radicalise.
It's the people who don't block him but listen to him that are the problem. He isn't speaking in good faith, he's trying to deceive people into doing bad things.
Funny. I just went searching to dig up the original nazi bar story for my blind friend on the phone.
It's posted on bluesky.
It doesn't matter whether he's blocked by people who hate him, what matters is he isn't blocked by the people he is trying to reach.
By hosting and welcoming him, Bluesky are legitimising his presence and making it easier for him to radicalise people who are on the fence.
More at social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/…
FediThing 🏳️🌈 (@FediThing@chinwag.org)
Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell everyone you're doing horrible stuff, the worst crimes imaginable. They make videos, articles, livestreams, all pushing the same lies designed to make everyone hate and fear you.Chinwag Social
Don't be so negative, folks!
Until proven wrong, we can at least hope this will reduce the overall activity over at tw*tter, thus also reducing Musks profit!
And if he continue to live out his far right fantasies at bsky, we may even get the pleasure of seeing him get kicked out some day! 🤗
If you know someone who is interested but finds it intimidating or overwhelming, I would be happy to help. The website at fedi.tips is written for non-technical people for example, and I'm happy to directly answer specific questions 🙂
Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediversefedi.tips
That's a fair point and I did wonder for a while whether or not to link directly to the account.
I posted the link because it proves he's there and active (he had briefly been blocked because BS thought it was fake), it proves he's hosted by Bluesky and it proves he's been verified by Bluesky.
The link is a smoking gun of Bluesky's behaviour, so it seemed on balance best to post it.
@Eh__tweet If you don’t want to link directly to the account, you can link to the ClearSky page, which also gives you things like “How many people/Lists are blocking the account”
Yeah, they briefly blocked him because they thought it was fake.
As soon as Bluesky found out it was really Vance they restored and verified the account, and then emailed Fox News to say they welcome him.
I mean, very pedantically speaking, Trump is on Mastodon, no? As in, truth dot social is a mastodon instance with the branding replaced?
But I don't think it federates at all, and if it did, it would be very high in the fediblock lists.
Trump's media org stole Mastodon's software code in order to build their own centralised platform.
I wouldn't personally count them as part of Mastodon.
He bloody blocked me and called me maga. This grift has gone on too long . I’m on a maga list. Wtf. 🦁 Roaaaaar!
I really don't care about nazi label , which is what the zionist regime is calling anyone who says dont do what you says germnay did to you.
and far-right and literal extremest racist western politicians are completely supporting their pet rabid dog in middle east.
but all the other parts are correct like about centralized service danger and becoming like twitter being a cesspool of many many bad stuff.
p.s. It isn't enough to say that individuals can just block stuff they don't like.
Fascists don't care about people who block them, they only care about those who don't block them.
Fascists use platforms to try to radicalise anyone who will listen. Fascists spread hateful lies about vulnerable minorities, and if someone believes those lies they may follow the fascist and spread lies too.
I've tried to explain this in a way that hopefully anyone can relate to:
social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/…
FediThing 🏳️🌈 (@FediThing@chinwag.org)
Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell everyone you're doing horrible stuff, the worst crimes imaginable. They make videos, articles, livestreams, all pushing the same lies designed to make everyone hate and fear you.Chinwag Social
reshared this
p.p.s. No, Vance wasn't banned by Bluesky. That's why I included the link in the original post so you can see he isn't banned.
Bluesky had blocked the account briefly because they thought it was fake, but when they found out it was real they unblocked it, verified it and sent an email to Fox News saying that Vance was welcome on Bluesky.
Mastodon Migration reshared this.
That's not enough, he has to be deplatformed because not everyone will block him:
social.growyourown.services/@F…
p.s. It isn't enough to say that individuals can just block stuff they don't like.Fascists don't care about people who block them, they only care about those who don't block them.
Fascists use platforms to try to radicalise anyone who will listen. Fascists spread hateful lies about vulnerable minorities, and if someone believes those lies they may follow the fascist and spread lies too.
I've tried to explain this in a way that hopefully anyone can relate to:
social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/…
FediThing 🏳️🌈 (@FediThing@chinwag.org)
Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell everyone you're doing horrible stuff, the worst crimes imaginable. They make videos, articles, livestreams, all pushing the same lies designed to make everyone hate and fear you.Chinwag Social
I was talking to a close friend about the Fediverse a while ago. Her main reason to sticking to Meta platforms was mostly that she doesn't use social media for fun, but primarily for marketing. She's a singer, like me, and it's just sort of expected of you to use these things, because that's where your audience is.
But she also said that she's wary of dividing the world into different echo-chambers when using a platform that's more popular with left-wing users. Made me think of this.
I have tried to register with Bluesky today but seem to be blocked because they cannot get an e-mail to my e-mail account.
Maybe that is not such a bad thing.
Beautifully put by @eons in a reply to another thread on this topic today:
"when a hostile actor appears, if your options are "look away or leave" then you're in a nazi bar"
mastodon.gamedev.place/@eons/1…
when an hostile actor appears, if your options are "look away or leave" then you're in a nazi bar
No, here I have to disagree hard: I don't want the crazy hateful, fascist and / or simply cookoo voices to disappear. I want the tankie nutjob, the fascist white power lunatic and the vatnik idiot to be able to scream his or her vile bullshit into the void of the net. Because this is the freedom the net gives us.
Fascism and oppression has to be fought with dialogue, through teaching people and sometimes with fists and steel... but never through censorship and silencing of ideas.
Here's a thought experiment:
Someone with millions of followers is telling people that you (not your group but you personally) are a murderer and rapist and all kinds of other untrue stuff.
People believe him, his speeches get carried on TV, on radio, and newspapers give him an easy time without questioning his allegations too much.
What would you do? Would you want even more people to hear his allegations about you? Would you want his audience to be even bigger?
"Fascism and oppression has to be fought with dialogue, ... never through censorship and silencing of ideas."
I'm sorry but that's a load of crap.
When the Nazis were defeated, their party was banned and their symbols were made illegal. Those who voted for them were made to march through death camps and look at the corpses to see the consequences of their votes.
Dialogue with fascists is like dialogue with rapists or murderers, it normalises stuff that should not be normalised.
I don't like being in an information bubble, myself. But I recall a quote about #Nazis and #Fascism (I do not recall where I heard it):
"The only thing that a tolerant society must not tolerate is #intolerance ."
There are a few things that should never be allowed a forum for discussion, because the uneducated and bigots do not debate; they merely jump straight to hate. Along the way, they pull others into their darkness.
It's not easy to walk the fine line between #FreeSpeech and justifiable #censorship , but we must be constantly straddling that line and holding onto it firmly.
We do not give pornography to children or spread it on social media. Nor should we give that same social media space to Nazis and hate.
#LyndaCarter #WonderWoman #1970sTV #CarolynJones #TheFeminumMystique #QueenHippolyta #BlueSky #JayGraber
I disagree. The Nazi party was banned because they ACTED upon their atrocious beliefs... purely talking about ideas - as much as I may despise them - has to stay possible.
Just think about it: If you start to censor ONE topic, what guarantees that this is not followed up with other topics?
The current fascists ARE acting on their beliefs.
Masked thugs are snatching people off the streets without due process and sending them to foreign jails.
Do you think the victms of fascism are getting their freedom of speech respected?
"Just think about it: If you start to censor ONE topic, what guarantees that this is not followed up with other topics?"
There are lots of things which society rightly bans, from minor stuff like spam to serious stuff like CSAM.
And while I'm here, just wanted to say thank you for all the work you do for the Fediverse, it's truly appreciated.
Defederation also creates echo chambers. I'd much rather prefer that admins proactively ban spam, disinformation, and other rulebreakers.
I doubt Vance will change people's minds on BlueSky. I'd say the opposite: if we never engage in discussions, they will keep winning elections.
"Fascists use platforms to try to radicalise anyone who will listen."
Like if you the """good""" left don't do the same 💀
Please stop being hypocrite.
Yeah... .I tried Blusky because someone told me "It's just like old Twitter"...
And after a day or two I remembered... I hated old Twitter too...
I keep being proven more right.
Glad I only checked it out for 2 weeks & deleted it.
Moderation on BS is actually more decentralized than in the Fediverse - block lists managed by the community are a better tool than Fediverse instance admins being in command, especially since you can't yet switch fedi instances without changing identity.
How would that be different if Vance was setting up its own Fedi instance?
Yup, that's why I included the link so people could see for themselves.
If you do an internet search for "fox news bluesky vance" you'll find the article where Bluesky welcome him to the platform (I'm not going to link it).
Here, in Italy we have other ideas....
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Really scratching my head over bsky apologists not quite getting that choosing to host JD Vance alone makes the CEO of bsky anathema to being good company.
It doesn't matter if you can block him, or that you are not on their instance. It's a matter that anyone welcoming these shits onto their platform must be yeeted from all parts of polite society. Including the bsky execs.
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I normally block anyone cross-posting from Bluesky (BS?) and X. I'll make an exception for this one.
In a recent @WIRED interview, when asked "Would you welcome President Trump?" CEO Jay Graber responded "Yeah—Bluesky’s for everyone." So their welcoming of Vance doesn't surprise me. (I don't support this choice, to be clear.)
wired.com/story/big-interview-…
Bluesky Is Plotting a Total Takeover of the Social Internet
All the lefties fled to Bluesky following Elon Musk’s Twitter takeover. But CEO Jay Graber says the app is for everyone—and could revolutionize how people communicate online.Kate Knibbs (WIRED)
I guess Bluesky's unofficial motto is now "Bluesky: the social network that welcomes fascists".
That is even more disturbing. Total lack of morality from Graber and Bluesky, at a point in history where people need to be taking a stand. Spineless bunch of greedy cowards.
Follow-up question should have been about whether Graber supports neo-nazis being on there, for example the neo-nazis Trump pardoned.
Everything on Bluesky flows through a central relay system controlled by the Bluesky Corporation. In practical terms they have complete control over everything, which is dangerous if they decide to do bad stuff.
"I still don't understand federated social media very well."
This guide might help? It tries to explain why having lots of independent servers is really important for the health of a social network:
fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse…
Why is the Fediverse on so many separate servers? | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediversefedi.tips
@mastodonmigration
The top 5 most blocked accounts on Bluesky. Vance rockets to #2 in less than a day.
1. Jesse Singal
2. JD Vance
3. I have no idea
4. Wealthy, insufferable, self-obsessed, Zionist Brianna Wu
5. Billionaire loudmouth Mark Cuban
@Voline @mark_ohe Following / blocked by ratio's interesting too:
Singal ??* / 80,6
Vance 14,5 / 75,4
breezing **
Wu 27,7 / 61,1
Cuban 1 400 / 48,8
____
* couldn't find his account for some reason -- is it only available for logged in users?
** apparently a bot listing "bsky trending words" every ten minutes
It's not enough for individuals to block hatemongers, people spreading hate have to be de-platformed. Platform owners should be refusing to platform them.
Not everyone will block him, some will listen to him and believe his lies and become radlcalised. Then they will spread the hate even further, and it will kill people.
⚡Tasin 🚀
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