Starlink is experiencing a network outage, Elon Musk’s SpaceX-owned satellite internet company said on Thursday, with Downdetector showing that the service was down for thousands of users.
The Sapienza computer scientists say Wi-Fi signals offer superior surveillance potential compared to cameras because they're not affected by light conditions, can penetrate walls and other obstacles, and they're more privacy-preserving than visual images.
[…] The Rome-based researchers who proposed WhoFi claim their technique makes accurate matches on the public NTU-Fi dataset up to 95.5 percent of the time when the deep neural network uses the transformer encoding architecture.
The tracking happens even with a big reflector/scatterer on your head, but as long as you dont wear it regularly, the system would have difficulty identifying you from wave propagation alone
I've seen some article recently that the patterns of Wi-Fi/Bluetooth (don't remember which one) interference with brainwaves can be scanned to reconstruct brainwave signature remotely, meaning that it might be possible to scan anyone's EEG from Wi-Fi/Bluetooth distance. And there are some AI advancements for reconstructing inner monologue from EEG. So maybe we're not so far from actual remote mind-reading.
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Well they can identify you are the same person but not your identity.. So it's like a disenbodied fingerprint.
I suppose they could potentially make some database and train an AI on it someday to match to actual identities, but usefulness would be pretty limited at only 95% accuracy. That's a false reading 1/20 times, so I suspect it would fail bigly to accurately recognize people from large data sets.
Never said that it wasn’t easy, it’s just harder than with facial recognition. In theory you could do it correctly in a way that it isn’t indentifiable.
Also this works in places where faces are protected
I'd imagine it's like online advertisers: they convert your fingerprint to a token to try to sell you shit, but they allegedly don't know who exactly you are or where you go. So visiting animatedllamaporn.com is still your little secret...
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You'd need fabric with continuous metallic threads that form a complete mesh to actually block the 2.4/5GHz signals - most DIY foil approaches leave gaps that WiFi can still penetrate thru.
I feel like you’re overthinking this. There are people who buy crystal-infused drinking cups to reset their personal feng shui. (Spoiler: it’s just glitter.)
I really wish I didn’t have morals. It’s so easy to make money if you’re willing to fleece people.
I'm generally pro research, but occasionally I come across a body of research and wish I could just shut down what they're doing and rewind the clock to before that started.
There is no benefit of this for the common person. There is no end user need or product for being able to identify individuals based on their interactions with WiFi signals. The only people that benefit from this are large corporations and governments and that's from them turning it on you.
Continued research will ease widespread surveillance and mass tracking. That's not a good thing.
If all you need is presence detection then a motion sensor would be vastly more efficient.
If you actually need identity detection, then maybe, but you'll still have to have a camera or detailed access logs to associate the interference signature with a known entity and at that point you may as well just put an RFID reader under the bowl you throw your keys into or use facial or gait detection.
This kind of thing relies on the fact that the emitter and environments are static, impacting the propagation of the signals in a predictable way and that each person, having a unique physique, consistently interferes with that propagation in the same way. It's a tool that reports "the interference in this room looks like the same interference observed in these past cases."
Search and rescue is a very dynamic environment, with no opportunity to establish a local baseline, and with a high likelihood that the physiological signal you are looking for has been altered (such as by broken or severed limbs).
There are some other WiFi sniffing technologies that might be more useful for S&R such as movement detection, but I'm not sure if that will work as well when the broadcaster is outside the environment (as the more rubble between the emitter and the target the weaker your signal from reflections against the rubble).
Don't think of this as being able to see through walls like with a futuristic camera, think of this as AI assisted anomaly detection in signal processing (which is exactly what the researchers are doing).
Microwave based ground penetrating radar is actually different from WiFi. Also the technology referenced in the link is a motion based body locator, not an identity recognition device.
This is different technology doing different things than what the original article was talking about.
I mean I don't understand this as a lay person, so if it doesn't work then fair enough, but if wifi signals can identify human beings, and pets, when a building collapses better than other methods, or even augment the capabilities already used, then at least there is some benefit from this technique. It's not going to disappear, Genie is out of the bottle now, so why not at least put it to a good use instead of keeping it only being abused by the billionaires and other evil entities.
It's too late now to stop that and I hate that they can do this.
Please don't mistake me trying to find a silver lining as anything other than trying to find a reason that this isn't just another way we are fucked but the science is what it is so out it to better use. It's an interesting capability regardless of how it can be abused, and since we aren't going to stop using the technology we should really understand exactly how this works by using it and making it was beneficial as possible.. Until we were ready to ban the tech, which I have no faith that we will ever.
A bespoke device made to do this, not just your wifi router at home, might as well study it for good praises, or we may if only be abused with little defence against our collective abusers
WiFi uses a subset of the significantly wider microwave band. Ground Penetrating Radar also uses a subset of the microwave band. While there can be some overlap, the frequencies desired for GPR will very broadly based on what you are looking for, what you are looking in, and how deep you are looking for that thing. The wattage supplied can also differ.
WiFi and Microwaves in general are most definitely not the same thing and I will absolutely encourage you to not set up a 1kW 3GHz jamming antenna for your WiFi needs.
Could you use WiFi for search and rescue? Maybe for a narrow set of circumstances, but in almost all situations a dedicated GPR option will be better.
This also won't identify a victim, only revealing that one exists.
First - someone comes up with this. Next, privacy researchers and black/white/grey hat techies come up with methods to defeat it.
Better for surveillance tech research like this to be published out in the open than developed in some secret lab. I figure these researchers are doing more positive than negative by publishing their findings. It's not like if they didn't publish, someone else wouldn't come up with this and possibly use it clandestinely.
When anyone or anything says that their product works "up to x%" I always presume it doesn't really work at all. Christ, 1% is included in that "up to 95.5%" vague bullshit statement.
I believe the reason they had to say "up to" is because the "signatute" will vary day to day ever so slightly (natural weight fluctuation), and if you gain or lose weight it can change dramatically, so the AI would have to constantly consider that and adjust it's records.
Honestly, unpopular opinion, but as long as it isn't very short wavelength RF and they allow for self-hosted/open-source alternatives, I do find it a bit more privacy respecting than cameras, of course they have to say they are using the technology in public places.
It also has it's ways of fooling it, instead of wearing a wig and a false nose, you could wear a carbon-infused silicone fat suit to change the way you interact with RF.
I know people, funded, building WiFi scanners, but for the industry. They are cheap and can scan big stuff but they are quite imprecise, I wonder if you have like to stand in a specific pose on a specific spot for it to work?
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I can imagine this being initially an accidental discovery like oh every time so and so’s body interacts with the WiFi signal it’s the same pattern… until someone starts exploring this further… and then some engineer or their manager started looking for applications for this. In my experience engineering researchers especially are very good with coming up with use cases for whatever tech they’re working with, with little ethical consideration.
I doubt it. You'd need to be looking really closely at the waveforms to notice this, so they were likely already doing something similar, like that research that can pinpoint where people are in a house based on their WiFi. They were probably already doing something creepy before they noticed that this was more straightforward than they expected.
Once you start playing with radiowaves and antenna you start noticing the intricate ways it plays with and around bags of water like bodies. I'm sure the original research on location/movement tracking was due to scientists trying not to get interference, later once they figured it out it was natural to see how much data they could get out of a radio interference profile.
I remember the original tech was going to be marketed as a way to tell if your old person (parent etc) had fallen down and stopped moving. Not the best use case, and then the privacy implications became clear. Once that happens the race begins to exploit the tech.
...But the eventuality here is something like a Star Trek tricorder that can take multiple vitals and detect irregularities from across the waiting room. Sensors that remember who was in a room and what settings they had. Etc. Some cool thing besides the bad stuff (microtarget those ads).
Well I heard about this and thought "this will be great for home automation", but I also know that someone was equally excited about using this to rob people of basic freedoms or being a fucking creep or both.
Cameras require light, while radio waves works almost as well in darkness.
A motion sensor is an extra device that needs to be connected, have power and so on.
There are already radio wave motion- and room occupancy sensors where you can specify zones and so on, but if I could have personalized on top of that I'd take it.
Finally, using a thing for something useful other than its intended purpose is kinda fun.
People willingly provide enough tracking of themselves already
While this could have military applications, the need to generate a profile of the person you want to track makes this less of a concern for your average “carries a phone everywhere” person
Tech companies are always foaming at the mouth to get more data. Yes they know who you are but what do you think, how do you feel, how do you move? The only way to go is to get richer data. This satisfies that addiction. You really think mark Zuckerberg won’t use this against you if he can?
The resulting image must just basically look like a shadow, I can't imagine that they're going to get much internal detail with Wi-Fi considering that my router's signal practically gets blocked by a piece of cardboard.
This research essentially amounts to, humans can be individually identified with nothing more than low quality x-rays. Well yeah, so what, you can also use visible light and in any situation where you're going to use Wi-Fi to detect someone, it's got to be easier to buy a cheap CCTV camera.
First of all: cardboard does NOT block electromagnetic waves. You need a Faraday Cage for that. And even then, it has to have holes of a certain size to block specific wavelengths/frequencies. It’s why you have a mesh on the door of your microwave for example.
Secondly: they’re not attempting to photograph you. Just identifying your unique signature once would allow them to track your location anywhere where they have the gear installed.
EDIT: I suppose your comment is written in a way that it's not clear whether you're saying certain frequencies absolutely require meshes of a certain size to be blocked or if you're just adding that extra detail about the design of Faraday cages for the hell of it. But...
Original comment: It doesn't have to have holes to block radiation. A continuous sheet blocks all frequencies. A mesh is just nice so we can see through the cage or allow air to pass etc.
From the page you linked: "A Faraday shield may be formed by a continuous covering of conductive material." "... if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation."
My bad, a Farady Shield works just as well and it doesn’t need holes. But I was thinking about ways to combat this while posting and a solution involving conductive fabric was going through my head during that moment.
They explicitly went into the advantages over cameras: - Any light condition (of course IR lighting with IR cameras are the gold standard so this can argueably be met otherwise) - The ability to cover multiple rooms through walls with a device. A sub-10 GHz signal can penetrate most interior walls. People could be tracked without even being able to see a camera and by extension not knowing where to mess with to defeat surveillance.
So perhaps a building takes a picture of everyone as they come in the front door and also establishes a 'WhoFi' profile for that person. They could keep track of their movement through the building while maintaining an actionable correlation to a photo.
You know, this, and the using wifi to see through walls stuff to me just immediately seemed to fall into "don't research this, it can only be used for evil".
I don't get why we bother studying these types of things.
Yeah, like, why learn how to split the atom if all we can do is splode stuff. It's not like we can cure cancer or power things without emitting planet killing gasses or anything.
And this here folks is the true ending. No one there is going to stop it as always.
Congratulations! You are now fully fucked!
There is the draft dodger, he is located in building #52556 in this city, info updated 125 milliseconds ago. He left his phone at his house 5 states away, go get him.
It was very much not even far fetched at that point. 1984 wrote about the same kind of surveillance, and at that time it would have been pretty far fetched. It was published in 1949; the video camera was only 24 years old at that point.
Привет! Хотелось бы узнать, кто из вас уже пробовал использовать Manus - китайский искусственный интеллект? Если вы уже пользовались этой ИИ, расскажите, пожалуйста, каков ваш опыт разработки приложений для компьютера с её помощью? Насколько удобно и эффективно оказалось использовать Manus для таких задач?
Manus is a general AI agent that turns your thoughts into actions. It excels at various tasks in work and life, getting everything done while you rest.
È ovviamente ironico ma, anche per via del mio nuovo Papiellify che mi sta tenendo letteralmente le mani occupate, adesso sto scrivendo meno papielli della roba mia qui sopra… peccato. Ma va bene, suppongo ci sia comunque tempo per scrivere un piccolo aggiornamento, prima di andare a letto… tanto, se già ieri sera ho ampiamente […]
ripaperamento delle pigne nintendiche per mezzo del cartatore (aggiornamenti Papiellify e usi pratici)
È ovviamente ironico ma, anche per via del mio nuovo Papiellify che mi sta tenendo letteralmente le mani occupate, adesso sto scrivendo meno papielli della roba mia qui sopra… peccato. Ma va bene, suppongo ci sia comunque tempo per scrivere un piccolo aggiornamento, prima di andare a letto… tanto, se già ieri sera ho ampiamente ritardato il sonno perché ho come al solito perso la cognizione del tempo a programmare, e la sera prima ugualmente perché dovevo fare gli ultimissimi ritocchi al progetto per l’esame del giorno dopo (…che manco sono serviti, maremma cara), allora stasera posso fare lo stesso dopo essermi liberata dal giogo della carta. 👍
In mezzo a questa tale mia disperazione, almeno, c’è qualcosa di buono da vedersi in come, piano piano, tutti i miei strumenti lavorino sempre meglio tra di loro, e come io quindi mi stia avvicinando in modo sempre più comodo ed efficace ai miei piani finali (purtroppo, appunto, a scapito del sonno, ma vabbé). Avendo solo dal giorno prima fatto pace con la creazione di fogli sfiziosi grazie alla previa creazione di Papiellify, infatti, sono potuta tornare qualche attimo a Pignio; che, tra i tanti motivi, come accennai, è stato creato anche per permettermi di raccogliere materiale relativo a schifezze da stampare, oltre ai meme da ospedale psichiatrico… 🦫
E quindi, ieri sera, in un attimo (…talmente tanto “attimo” da avermi fatta andata a mimir un’ora più tardi del normale, e il mio normale è già tardissimo), ho implementato una cosa che avevo stranamente dimenticato dall’inizio, cioè il listino di singole directory del file system… e, lasciando stare che pure stavolta mi sono accorta solo la mattina in produzione di un piccolo difetto nella app (e ormai, con questo progetto, questo schemino è una certezza, sigh), oggi ho potuto godere meglio di quelle 91 immagini che ieri ho caricato in blocco sulla piattaforma, appunto in una cartella apposita: tutte (?) le carte da lettera di Nintendo Swapdoodle, rigorosamente ottenute tramite screenshot a manina dalla app sul mio 3DS e qui ricaricate violando il copyright (di software oggi non più ufficialmente distribuito)!!! 😍 Quindi, mi sono poi nuovamente messa all’opera sul fronte cartaceo mediato digitalmente, adoperandomi nel tentativo di trasformare una a caso di queste carte da lettera (di cui una gran parte onestamente molto belle e interessanti, e ne godo che ora siano preservate sul mio Pignio) in dei normali fogli per appunti — a dimensione ISO A6, anziché il quadrato di 250×230 pixel che Nintendo ci ha (in)gentilmente concesso, ma per A4 o altro vale lo stesso — e ci sono riuscita. Ho dovuto implementare ancora qualche altra robetta nel fogliatore per farlo, con non poca fatica (e non ho ancora finito…), ma ce l’ho fatta, e trovo sia incredibilmente magico vedere fianco a fianco l’originale immaginetta di dimensioni micragnose e il mio riadattamento — fatto col taglia e cuci, ma pulito, senza stretching… e soprattutto semi-automatico. 😋
E si, stavolta la questione è davvero tutta qui, scusate se è poco; non sto banalmente cacciando fuori magie, bensì sto poco a poco riuscendo attivamente a combattere il principio di Murphy per cui non si può mai fare niente senza che qualcos’altro vada fatto prima. Comunque sia, i nuovi piccoli aggiornamenti che insomma ho fatto a Papiellify (assieme ai tanti ancora non discussi per il Pignio, ma vabbé) sono già online… e ho aggiunto pure il modello creato stavolta alla raccolta dei file: memos.octt.eu.org/m/gnwNvbS4zv… (dovrebbe essere l’ultimo in lista). Quindi ora, forse, posso dormire… ma domani c’è da rilegare questi 10 fogli in un quadernino da 40 pagine, quindi il grind per me non finisce mai. 😵
With the passing of Chuck Mangione at age 84 today, I’m dedicating this week’s Throwback Thursday to the time I played a Mangione chat, Legend of the One Eyed Sailor, with the Jim Ott Brass Ensemble at the 2015 Drum Corps International World Championships
With the passing of Chuck Mangione at age 84 today, I’m dedicating this week’s Throwback Thursday to the time I played a Mangione chat, Legend of the One Eyed Sailor, with the Jim Ott Brass Ensemble at the 2015 Drum Corps International World Championships Semifinals.
“The family of Chuck Mangione is deeply saddened to share that Chuck peacefully passed away in his sleep at his home in Rochester, New York on July 22, 2025."
Open up developer console (F12) network tab and reload page/play audio. In the list of network requests, look for something that looks like the resource you want (e.g. in this case, filename: "mp3", initiator: "media", type: "mpeg"), right-click and "save response as". This doesn't work on every site, but works on yours!
Fancier sites do not serve media files directly but fetch encoded chunks of data and recombine them using javascript. To get the whole file back you need to re-implement the javascript, which is what yt-dlp does, but only works for sites it knows how to handle.
For this website, it seems the only way is by fetching the MP3 URL from the network tab (or a random JavaScript file) and passing it into yt-dlp like so:
As the other comment said, if you inspect page html source (ctrl-U) and ctrl-F search for "mp3", the URL of the embedded audio file is also right there in plaintext in the middle of javascript code, but it's merely good fortune that the developer left it easily visible and not renamed or obfuscated in some way. Saving from the network tab works in more cases in general.
You don't need to use yt-dlp to fetch files 😁. It will let itself be used as wget, sure, but the browser is already capable of saving files - that's it's job! Paste the link into the address bar.
Thanks for helping me get this far but now I'm stuck. Neither yt-dlp nor pasting the url into the browser works. The latter gets me the image below, yt-dlp says it's not a valid url
Edit: I got it to work with yt-dlp. I forgot the quotes around the url
Yep! The "save response as" works in more cases because it already includes all the correct cookies/referrers that sites use to protect against hotlinking.
One other thing to try: addons.mozilla.org/firefox/add… (presumably also available for other browsers). Then hold shift while you reload the page, and play the media. Chances are extremely good the addon will catch it and start dancing in your toolbar. Open the addon, click the file you want to download, and it should just download.
Israel is paying to have MAGA social media influencers, with millions of followers, visit Israel to learn how to keep US youth supporting Israel, ignoring Gaza.
The App Store is designed to be a safe and trusted place for all ages, including children. The age rating system for apps and games has been updated in order to provide people with more granular age ratings.
Is it possible to Spoof Android User Agents without rooting? I have found github.com/ray-lothian/UserAge… but it requires rooting. Since I'm using GOS I don't think rooting my device is a good idea.
By android UA I actually meant system wise UA, so that with one spoof all the app installed on the system would recognize my device as the spoofed one, no just the browser
Kessler syndrome is about a chain reaction that destroys everything in orbit and keeps us from accessing space for years.
Ruining your view is not "nearly as bad". That makes you sound like one of those folks on Martha's Vineyard, opposing offshore wind turbines that local communities desperately need, because they'll "ruin the view".
Is that accurate though? Assume a satellite is in a decaying orbit (thus too low to contribute to Kessler syndrome on its own) and another satellite is in a different orbit eccentricity-wise but they both collide. Are we certain that none of the pieces from the collision would acquire enough speed to become boloids that contribute to Kessler syndrome?
Time to go down the rabbit hole that is orbital mechanics for me again. Byeeee lol
Edit: looks like the lowest orbit for starlink's first shell is at 550km which is very much above VLEO and would definitely be a factor in Kessler Syndrome.
Most starlink satellites are set to deorbit themselves upon failure to avoid this. However the de orbiting could still fail and then it should take about a year or so to deorbit itself?
So it looks like there is a low possibility of it initiating Kessler syndrome. But it's not negligible.
A year is actually quite a short time (in terms of deorbiting).
As for your previous question yes a collision at starlink orbit could send some shrapnel to higher orbit planes however a majority would be in highly eccentric orbits that would decay quickly on the low end.
The issue would be a starlink collision then hitting something in a higher orbit causing Kessler syndrome in that orbit. The odds of this are still next to zero but never zero.
For your question, no. There's no way for an object to have an orbit that doesn't intersect the same altitude where an impulse happened. They could be knocked into an eccentric orbit, but it at least has to have the lowest point at the highest point of the Starlink network.
This is not to say it can't hit something else after that changes the perigee at a later point in it's orbit, thus lifting it higher. For a single collusion though, no, at least with the collision alone.
You’re off ten fold. They have thousands. Around 5000 with a planned 12k after gen 3 has been fully deployed. It’s definitely a “let the intern push to prod” type of scenario by numbers alone.
Thank you so much ! /s Come and join me where the options are many and the price is so cheap. /s /s
If you'd like to experience what it's like to access the internet sans Starlink, perhaps you could just throttle your modem to 8 or even 10 Mbps. Yes? No? Then consider how lucky you are, and have some empathy for those of us who have little or no alternative.
"I know millions of people use their service because it's the only real option they have, but because it's associated with this one guy I don't like, they can all eat a dick!"
Your options are limited not by random angry dude on the Internet, but by deliberate and calculated lack of development conspired between legislators and telecoms. Starlink will hit the limits imposed by physics and geometry, and then will get worse and worse the more people sign up.
SpaceX sure but Tesla has been in decline for so long that I wouldn’t be surprised if by the end of the decade it’s either irrelevant or sold off / taken from Musk.
Iris2 and Eutselsat OneWeb are currently massively expanding their network - for European coverage first,though, but with the explicit goal to be a Musk alternative.
Got a nice fibre-optic connection, have you? Try throttling that to <10Mbps and you might understand what some people have to deal with. DSL at 10Mbps from an evil corporation, or 150Mbps from an evil corporation, hmmmmm, what a choice.
It's easy to shit on the owner, but have some sympathy for folk who don't have a reasonable alternative.
I have a place in the boonies and I use starlink. I find it to be vastly superior to the only other semi-viable option, line of site. Speeds aren't as great as they use to be and I'll be happy to change when another better or similar option comes along.
I do experience mico-outages every few days. Like a 1 to 2 second drop that I would only notice with vid chats or gaming.
I do have a media server and surf the seven seas. Starlink is crap for that, so I found a new home for it as I move my residence out here.
I live in a country praised for its IT industry, digital government and whatever
I got off ADSL in 2024. Fucking lol. I don't even live on a farm or anything. Lucky to receive fiber though, now they want to prioritize 5G home connections instead.
My coworkers mom paid $200 a month with a 20GB datacap for HughesNet and couldn't even stream Netflix or Youtube. Their service is completely useless in 2025.
I'm sorry, but not even having a Musk backed product as my only alternative could get me to use HugesNet's antifunctional service. Literally dialup is better.
Lemmy is by default a link aggregator which means users who are browsing posts get 2 things only: - Link. - Title.
From my experience, literally those 25 extra characters could just include that word that can be the word that will give a meaning to the previous 200 characters. Especially that the main competitor for Lemmy (Reddit) allows for up to 300 characters titles.
Overall, it seems pretty essential to give people more context about the link they about to click.
New Executive Order:AI must agree on the Administration views on Sex,Race, cant mention what they deem to be Critical Race Theory,Unconscious Bias,Intersectionality,Systemic Racism or "Transgenderism
Uh.... Just saying.... you (or others reading) need to think in much bigger numbers for that extreme of a schedule... Entry level devs at FANG make around that amount of money..... and we didn't work nearly that many hours at the office.....
I would like to see the data set where you pulled this anecdote from. This starting number for annual comp is not supported by any publicly available data for entry level in any meaningful quantity.
More like $200k in total comp (but I suppose if the stock rockets like 5x after you're hired, it can end up being $400k). Senior positions can make > $400k/yr in total comp. Some companies have back-loaded vesting schedules so they can get rid of you before the majority of your options vest though.
For the absolute bottom rung, not exactly 400k, but around there. Also depends on the city and team.
The main point is that if you're gonna work a 996, you better be making at least $1M/year or more (honestly probably more, I tend to undershoot salaries) for it to be worth it. Otherwise, just get a normal FANG job if you only want to make $400k (lower end for FANG).
If I was in my 20’s I’d have thought about that 2.5x offer. Now that I’m in my 40’s I can say i wouldn’t even do it for 5x. You can’t buy back missed time, no matter how much money you have.
Part of me says that I’d do it for 20x… but I’d just end up quitting in a few months, take my money and retire early.
I did it (we called it 6x12s) for about 2-3 years in my 30s. At the time it felt worth it; food, lodging, and transportation were all covered as well. I don’t really regret it most days but looking back years later I think it may have damaged friendships more than I’d realized until recently.
There’s no fucking way I’d do it now. Now I’m just one bad day away from rage quitting and retiring. Unfortunately I’m in a great position with a great boss and a reasonable work load and ample coverage and support and never been denied time off so that bad day isn’t likely to come anytime soon.
The sweet spot for 12s is in having 4 days off per week. There isn’t time for anything in life on work days except work, sleep, commute. Thirdly, the first day off is a wash. Recovery. Like a nap that simply goes on all day. 12s are great but only with block scheduling and days off.
This schedule proposal sounds like something out of pre-OSHA, possibly intended to kill people. Live to work, not the other way around.
There has been no subsequent meta-analysis examining the effects of long working hours on health or occupational health since 1997. Therefore, this paper aims to conduct a meta-analysis covering studies after 1997 for a comparison. A total of 243 ...
Nothing to do with productivity. It's all about small dick energy CEOs wanting to validate and underline their self-perceived superior status. "How dare the little people work as little time as me?"
Yeah they're not going for productivity, they're an AI company. They just want the appearance of it to juice up their valuation or to stroke an executive's ego.
It honestly blows my mind how these "leaders" get paid billions of dollars to run their companies into the ground because they have no fucking clue how real humans operate.
I'm pretty sure half these articles are issued by the companies themselves just to get people outraged and talking about this, just so that they can test the waters and see how many people will defend it.
Authority is the right word, nothing in this is about actual products or traditional economic value.
It's feudal (or crook) impression economy. That "AI" is liked by people who can afford to continuously waste money on it. Such schedules are liked by the same people. They are the "Silicon Valley elite" or whatever.
I've read once a description by Russia's ambassador to Persia during Qajars how this historically worked.
So - Qajar Persian court, they've received, say, 2 (I don't remember, maybe 6) modern (for that moment) Russian cannons as a gift. What do they do with the cannons? The cannons stay with the court and are shot for fun at an empty ground with no aim, while the whole court and the monarch moan "ja-a-a-n" with every shot.
It's the same. The oligopolization of tech has made these people so much money and connections with other such people who have money, that they don't care about results at all. It's all shared impressions of what they "already have". They don't have to "run to stay on the same place". They don't have to compete - they collectively own search, social media, what we use instead of pen and paper, everything.
Or a more traditional example (I might have gotten the years wrong, but I think the idea doesn't suffer) - a bunch of knights in XV-century tournament armor are not a very good army compared to cuirassed musketeers with a wagenburg and actual discipline, but the societies are built the way that those real soldiers are very rare, expensive and present only in select important areas during real honest-to-god war. While on their tournament the gentry may pretend it's still XII century and they are competing in useful things.
that probably goes along with that $20M zuck offered to AI professionals. Yeah, we'll pay you $20M a year, you'll be spent around 6mon into the job your productivity will be 60% so.. (taps calculator) we get f#ck all for a sh%t ton of money and destroy people... letsdoit!
If you're going to work that hard to make some rich guy richer, why wouldn't you do that for yourself?
I had that revelation 30 years ago, and I've been mostly self-employed since. Even in those times when I wasn't, I was still working for my own benefit, not anyone else's. Those jobs didn't last long. I can only work for myself. I'm a good boss, I get away with everything.
That's a good question, what do you suggest I research to find out what to do for myself? I'm thinking about starting my own recycling business in the future, but that's about it.
Start reading about business, and start thinking about a micro business you can start with very little money, and start doing it. Never forget that the ONLY goal is to make a profit, because that is your income.
It's a startup, the goal is to get people who work for vaporous promises of future wealth So you squeeze them as hard as you can imagine then the company collapse and you take their work and sell it to private equity aka "angels"
The founders can do all the 996 they want, but if they want to have their employees do the same, they should offer a fair share of the company at least.
That's ok, they can promise more with no intention of ever paying it because there's a special privileged 'preferred' stock that the bigger investors and executives get that's prioritized for sales and dividends before anyone else's.
You are not kidding. I have some experience with startup stock options and... it's not pretty.
Before anyone retorts with remarks about "phantom stock" and other similar offers, I want you to do some math.
Figure out what the 'strike price' of that stock is likely to be when it matures, and calculate what the payout will be. Then figure out capital gains tax and subtract that. Divide what's left over by the amount of unpaid overtime (hours in excess of 40 a week) you're going to put in for the maturation window. Lastly, compare these figures to other testimonials in your field, and also, look up typical yearly bonus figures for more mature companies. You're going to see that it's not a lot of cash for the extra time, that it's nowhere near your base pay rate, and more established companies are going to do a better job of compensating folks for less effort. You may even find that with a 996 grind-set, it might pay out less than taking a second job at retail.
I can also warn you that if the company sells instead of going IPO, you may get a much smaller payout than all that. I was in a situation where they threw the advertised strike price in the trash, and negotiated a sale of everyone's stock to the buying company for much, much less.
What's really sad about it is that most of the shit they believe is complete sci-fi bullshit and they won't build a super-intelligence nor escape the planet no matter how much of their finite time they pump into these futile efforts.
I avoided this issue by embracing the completely non-controversial "become a contractor" work schedule. When you're a temp they specifically want you NOT to work overtime without prior authorization - because they have to pay for it. And as a software dev I was always treated identically with employees, except for a few special things like some company meetings and offsite events - which I didn't want to attend anyway. And I got paid almost twice as much hourly than I would as an employee. Sure, I had to buy my own health insurance and didn't get paid time off, but when you double your salary those are non-issues. But what about job security? LOL what about layoffs? My job security was that there are always contract jobs everywhere.
I kept pushing my previous employer for a midnight-8pm Saturday, and a 4AM-midnight Sunday shift, but couldn't get them to approve it. 40 hours a week, 5-days off.
Embracing? This is been the reality for many startups for a long time. Same with many game devs and animation studios too. Many technical jobs grind their staff despite being the most profitable industries. It is almost like the more money you make, the more you abuse your staff.
Kobe Bryant dedicated all his waking hours to basketball, and I don’t think there’s a lot of people saying that Kobe Bryant shouldn’t have worked as hard as he did.
Yeah, but he was working to achieve something for himself and not to make some parasite richer.
(Originally posted in response to @how's announced ultimatum wrt the future of SocialHub.)
Unless a community team steps up, SocialHub will cease to be ..
@how is urgently asking members of this community to brainstorm and consider options to keep this community not only alive, but make it thrive as one of the grassroots developer centers that help evolve the fediverse. SocialHub Community Values Policy
Now there’s a deadline: the activitypub.eu domain that hosts this community’s email service expires on September 10, 2025 [..]
So, either way the change is coming. I’d rather have it come in a structured way.
In 2019 @how and Petites Singularités graciously took custodianship of SocialHub, and I for one am very thankful for that! I am sure many in the fediverse developer landscape share that gratitude too.
For people reading this and considering community involvement.. when does P.S. plan to give public announcement / responsible disclosure of SocialHub winding down?
Perhaps it can be hosted in read-only mode for another year or two? That would be nice.
I believe there are ways to export the forum and turn it into a static html site, which could be hosted permanently to keep the information archive intact and accessible. silverpill:
Most developers have already left, so I think shutting the forum down is not a bad idea.
Did they leave or is the forum federated? @strypey did step up, and some time ago there was also interest of other people. Let's see where things go.
Another option is that W3C SocialCG takes over the custodianship role in addition to the activitypub.rocks website, if they are willing.
On a recent episode of the Dot Social podcast, John O’Nolan of Ghost said; “For the size of the group [working on federating long form articles], which as you say is not large, man, we are spread across Mastodon DMs sometimes, an email thread other …
Most developers have already left, so I think shutting the forum down is not a bad idea.
If they've all gone somewhere else, then SH has been replaced. In that case, I would agree it makes sense to convert it onto a read-only archive.
OTOH If they've just scattered to the four winds, and there's no replacement, then this is a collective action problem to be solved. Potentially by a community-driven reboot of SH. aschrijver:
Another option is that W3C SocialCG takes over the custodianship role in addition to the activitypub.rocks website, if they are willing.
That would make sense, given SH sits under a domain they are now managing. I'd be happy to work with SocialCG on this.
Most developers have already left, so I think shutting the forum down is not a bad idea.
If they’ve all gone somewhere else, then SH has been replaced. In that case, I would agree it makes sense to convert it onto a read-only archive.
OTOH If they’ve just scattered to the four winds, and there’s no replacement, then this is a collective action problem to be solved. Potentially by a community-driven reboot of SH.
It seems contentious to claim that "most developers have left" when the forum continues to show activity. In the past month, 44 topics have new posts, the majority of which are not federated topics. Who are these developers, have they really left, and does their leaving justify shutting down the forum? What is the alternative venue or forum for discussing ActivityPub-related topics, community, software, standards, etc? Does such an alternative (if it exists) provide a better experience for discussing these things?
If the answer is "they're on fedi now", then this is what I would categorize as "scattered to the four winds, and there's no replacement". The value of SocialHub is that it is a gathering place for these discussions, and it allows for those discussions to be long-form. There is a world of difference between a forum thread and a chain of replies in 500 characters or less. This has been previously discussed as well: aschrijver:
silverpill:
Most developers have already left, so I think shutting the forum down is not a bad idea.
The value of this SocialHub forum is in bringing people together to discuss things, and the introduction of federation in its current form has been arguably counterproductive to this end. Quite simply, if the discussions about ActivityPub are spread all over random pockets of microblogging, then this is an inferior experience to a proper forum with an actual social context. You can aggregate a bunch of microblog posts, but that's not the same -- the focus just isn't there in the same way that a real thread would remain mostly focused on the same topic. Replying to something is not the same as having a directed discussion. Every new reply is a chance for the topic to drift away from where it started, and if all you have is a reply tree, then you can't recognize these shifts.
What then? Do we converge on the w3c/activitypub issue tracker, or on the SocialCG mailing list? Or is the discussion around ActivityPub dead, and all that's left to do is have ad-hoc communications between various devs without any sort of coordination or commonplace? Maybe that's fine for the developers who have supposedly already left, because what's the point of having conversations when all you're trying to do is fix a one-off incompatibility between two projects? I don't think it's conducive to any sort of broad alignment, though.
At the end of the day, if the financial and organizational sponsor wants to back out, then we can't really do anything to force them to continue, but I think it's more worthwhile to consider the reboot rather than the shutdown. We can't easily fold the scope of this place into the issue tracker, because issue trackers are not general discussion forums. We can't easily fold the scope of this place into the mailing list, because this place was started to avoid flooding the entire SocialCG with ActivityPub-specific matters. So ideally something ought to occupy this niche.
On a recent episode of the Dot Social podcast, John O’Nolan of Ghost said; “For the size of the group [working on federating long form articles], which as you say is not large, man, we are spread across Mastodon DMs sometimes, an email thread other …
The various observations @trwnh makes are spot on. trwnh:
Quite simply, if the discussions about ActivityPub are spread all over random pockets of microblogging, then this is an inferior experience to a proper forum with an actual social context.
"Scattered to the winds" is also my observation. Anyone noted the new HTTP Signatures proposal to the ActivityPub community? Maybe by coincidence or by having a good 'following' collection. Or maybe because I created a cross-reference as a commons janitor. It means now at least there's archive that it happened, though the content of the discussion may already be gone, link-rotted as happens on microblog timelines.
What does it mean to be federated as a forum? That is what I mused about in the fragmentation discussion, and I formulated a Need:
Support the communication and cocreation of all participants in the ActivityPub ecosystem to help foster healthy growth and evolution of the Fediverse.
Note there is not the word "community" here. It is the vaguest term when it is just dropped casually. What is the "FOSS community" for instance? I claim it doesn't exist unless you use "community" in most handwavy terms. Long ago as facilitator I came to the conclusion that SocialHub was not a community, but just a discussion forum. And that though that is a shame, that still is valuable. These discussions are in the archives of this forum.
What should we do?
In order to be able to talk about "community" it has to be well defined what that entails ..
Collect problems that hold the AP dev community back from collaborating and evolve the foundational technologies that the dev ecosystem of the fediverse relies on.
Collect the challenges SocialHub faces to address these problems.
Refine the Need above, breakdown into more granular needs and find other requirements for a prolongation of SocialHub on a healthy trajectory.
Let people and groups thereof, like @strypey before (please boost his call to action), step up and announce themselves
I propose everyone to step up to prepare a Community Plan consisting of ..
Wiki post (such that it bumps the list upon edits) with a summary of the plan.
Separate discussion topic referenced from the wiki post, to discuss details of the plan.
Objective: Convince @how that responsible custodianship is taken care of, and it is responsible to hand over these tasks to the new community custodians.
---
Listing some needs and requirements that SocialHub always had, or for a long time already ..
Reach the AP dev community, connect people for focused discussion.
Provide insight in ongoing discussions such that others can chime in in real-time.
Keep record and archive that can be searched, quoted and cross-referenced.
Provide entry point to the ecosystem where newcomers can discover, onboard themselves.
Become native to the fediverse. SocialHub is to be part of the fediverse via federation.
Be a helpful tool to allow the FEP Process to fulfill its custodianship role for FEP's.
On diversity @jdp23 I would add that point 5 equates to the diversity of the fediverse itself (iff 'federation-done-well') and that point 6 acknowledges the need for a decentralized developer environment, where there can be many independent dev hubs furthering AS/AP et al. This notion promotes diversity in itself, and SocialHub in this setup does not take an authoritative position nor gatekeeper position.
The diversity problem + challenges then boil down to 1) the diversity that the microbloggoverse fedi and its moderation processes gives, and 2) how forum federation / threadiverse is able to forge community on top of that (as a well-defined concept) using the fediverse social graph where ecosystem participants and prospects (newcomer onboarding) engage.
And that brings this to a mighty interesting applied research area, on the basis of which alone a SocialHub reboot might be a very worthy undertaking. As mentioned above both @strypey and me in that fragmentation discussion were wondering:
What does it mean when we say that a Discussion forum has become "part of the fediverse"?
If I might give this a shot to formulate a definition ..
Federated discussion forums are like collaborative gardening centers where a group of fedizens gathers together around a theme and fosters a curated garden of relevant information and connections to other groups and people to interact with, have insightful discussions and deepen relationships, and to enrich the collective knowledge base together.
From a more technical perspective you might consider Federated discussion forum software to constitute a collaborative / multi-user ActivityPub client with dedicated management features for content curation, aggregation and moderation.
You don’t need to be willing to volunteer for anything other than being on the call. I’m just looking for indications that people still think SH is (or could be) a useful community service, and worth rebooting.
Any discussion and volunteer efforts to collect that information is welcome of course. But as I see it (interpreting @how's ultimatum) there's a stark choice within 4 weeks time of:
Either a community team steps up with a Community Plan that @how feels comfortable transferring custodianship to, before stepping away from that role with P.S.
Or there is no viable plan and team, and @how with P.S. is tasked with responsible shutdown.
What is a viable plan, what is a viable community then? Well, again my opinion, but there is no need at all to be broadly interesting, relevant to a large group, or targeting the entire dev ecosystem. A community team may choose any niche area to focus on. It is up to them. Viable in my book means first of all:
There is a team willing to take the commitment, and @how approves on the (transition) plan.
After that happens then I think it is important that the new team has free reign to do whatever they want to forge healthy community in whatever direction, scope and audience they want to serve/explore. They should be able to revitalize, reposition and foster the community as they think is best. They are now sole custodians of that, the ones making the fresh start. The "Why?" and "What to do about it?" may not be all that relevant against their new direction, the mission and vision of this new team.
I'd personally definitely reposition, and can imagine many different directions that might be interesting for a community to explore..
"We want to focus on improving the developer experience for newcomers that is still deplorable to this day. We will dedicate on lowering barriers to entry of the fediverse as much as possible."
"We focus on bringing the qualities and benefits of linked data to the forefront, in ways that still appeals to JSON-only crowds. We'll bridge gaps with other linked data standards."
"We focus on becoming a portal that collects feedback from fedizens, whose voices are insufficiently heard, in the developer-oriented release processes of individual apps."
"We will focus on collecting all the highly innovative ideas around decentralized networking, and give space for people to think out of the box, be creative and unrestricted by what's currently possible."
"We want to emphasize the 'social' in social hub, and give minority group a stronger voice in the developer community. We will actively reach out to developers other than those 'from the West' who dominate the scene."
"We will focus on the C2S side of the fediverse, which we consider to be the path to future of social networking."
"We think it is currently fine as it is, and will gladly support that from now on."
" ... [ add your dream community plan here ] ... "
Thus far 2 people have stepped forward. @strypey and @lullis how do you like the idea to outline thoughts, ideas and plans for the reboot of this community in a separate topic? As a means to excite and attract other people.
It seems contentious to claim that “most developers have left” when the forum continues to show activity. In the past month, 44 topics have new posts, the majority of which are not federated topics.
Great point @trwnh. Here's a recent example of how SH has been used. @claire, a member of the Mastodon team, came here to consult with devs from other projects about plans for federated Quote Posts in Mastodon, with an eye to documenting their approach through the FEP process (created here). The topic was created in Feb this year and constructive discussion is ongoing 5 months later. To me, this alone demonstrates that SH is useful, and worth saving. aschrijver:
do you like the idea to outline thoughts, ideas and plans for the reboot of this community in a separate topic?
Sounds great. I really like all the aspirations you lay out above, although it does make me realise that SH has a potentially huge brief. So it's hardly surprising the forum has only realised a fraction of its potential so far.
Oh and I know @jdp23 and I have a tendency to butt heads (most recently on the SocialMusic forum). But they make some fair points in this thread, and ask a good question here; jdp23:
If you wait until after the new community team is set up, how do you know that you haven’t already replicated the current problems in ways that will be hard or even impossible to fix later?
To me, this is not a 'one and done' process. The nature and infrastructure of SH has been negotiated and altered before, and no doubt will be again.
What we're trying to do right now, under urgency, is to put together a transitional team that can keep the lights on until at least the end of the calendar year. While we figure out more permanent solutions for;
hosting: both admin work and funding for any upstream costs
community management: moderation, outreach, conflict resolution, etc
governance: active stewardship to ensure that both of the above continue to be taken care of. In ways that facilitate the SH mission; being neutral ground for devs to parlay about pan-fediverse concerns
Once we've made arrangements to keep SH from blinking out of existence, I'd really like to see us put together a survey to send out to all fediverse devs. Past and present, of servers, clients and other tools. To find out if they've used SH, whether they still do, what they consider useful about the way it's been operated, and what would make it more attractive as a place for them to interact with other devs.
Hi! As you may be aware, Quote Posts are an often-requested feature for Mastodon, but this is something we are careful to implement properly, offering a proper framework for users to consent to being quoted.
Sounds great. I really like all the aspirations you lay out above, although it does make me realise that SH has a potentially huge brief. So it’s hardly surprising the forum has only realised a fraction of its potential so far.
These are not aspirations for one community, certainly not of SH (though opinions vary here), but ideas for different directions. SocialHub started out in a great position as literally the tool that SocialCG used for communications between the dev community regarding ActivityPub standardization. Then SocialCG went dormant and SH was the only active hub for a time.
From my time and experience as founder of Humane Tech Community I learned that having too large a scope and audience means you can only have a discussion forum run by staff, and not what you can meaningfully call a "community". At SocialHub I made various calls and put much effort into having people state their level of commitment and interest, and the outcomes were very clear: SH for a long time was just a discussion forum, where devs can conveniently read stuff on their subject of interest, and reply to them. That's it. No community at all. And in itself this is a perfect raison d'être for SH to exist. But we should be fair about it then, and accept SH for what it really is.
Later on, if anything, the custodianship of the FEP process is the only well-scoped true 'community-level activity', and that role might be further established (i.e. the "guarantee open ecosystem" mission and "bottom-up standardization process" vision), if there are folks interested in doing so. Yet here @silverpill - the currently only real active FEP facilitator - does not see merit, and is open to do everything in the codeberg issue tracker of the FEP (which I doubt is a good idea, but that's a different discussion).
In any case, in follow-up to @trwnh, looking at the #standards:fep category, a decent amount of good discussion takes place on SocialHub. And it is feedback we can still consult and respond to, contrary to all the FEP communication that shifted to the microblog timelines, where that feedback is all lost unless explicitly linked to. This makes the FEP more of a "do whatever you want" thing for any dev to spec just enough features for their own app, without much rigorous scrutiny from the dev community at large wrt improving general interop in the ecosystem. trwnh:
That’s quite a lot of things and generally enough to justify the forum’s continued existence rather than shutting it down. Of course, that doesn’t solve the (potential?) sponsorship issue being posed here that is necessary to answer for that continued existence.
Generally I'd define viable community as:
A viable community is where enough of its members care enough for its continued existence.
And with that care are committed to step up and help guarantee that existence. Very often this boils down to more or less the 90-9-1 rule, where one percent of members takes that responsibility seriously.
Currently in separate thread(s) and wiki post(s) we can gather what it takes to continue as-is, what problems are that led to current need for a reboot, and what ideas exist for fresh new directions. I'd advise using wiki post to summarize stuff (this thread for example is already 23 posts long and only TLDR's others). And it'd be great if @how could assign forum moderator or even forum admin privilege to some people so they are enabled to organize and steer this thing along efficiently.
Cross-referencing to social.coop discussion on Loomio, where @strypey had the great idea to raise awareness on this topic, and asked if members are interested to help and/or the cooperative to consider taking custodianship. I just added to that discussion myself:
A Fediverse instance for people interested in cooperative and collective projects. If you are interested in joining our community, please apply at https://join.social.coop/registration-form.html.
> I answered this on the forum, but your and mine mastodon thread does not show that
The federation of replies from SH into Mastodon might take some time. Due either to the generally slow performance of Mastodon, or to the issues you've raised with the impacts of AP federation of the SH Discourse instance;
Admittedly I'm only a hobbyist ActivityPub developer, I've been toying with a little implementation on nights and weekends for a few months, but I wanted to chime in on the "None of the developers want this, they've all moved on" sentiment and say:
As a lurker, I've found this forum incredibly useful, and would hate to see it go away.
I know community building is under appreciated, difficult, work. So if you haven't heard it enough, thank you to those of you involved in making this place run.
I'd pitch in what effort I can to keep it around, but acknowledge that I can't offer much.
Thank you @Hanse00, and it is great to hear you get value from SocialHub.
(Generally speaking it matters a lot when people speak out their appreciation for a commons based initiative they benefit from. There's an imbalance in our fediverse culture I think where people, often from the sidelines, are ready to pounce with unconstructive criticism. Leaving little room where fertile seedling can mature into strong trees. I regularly say it leads to an environment where "we divide ourselves to be conquered". We need a more forgiving culture, where there is acceptance that not everyone is as perfectly principled and valued yet, and there are shades of grey through which people can be guided gently into the light.) Hanse00:
I’d pitch in what effort I can to keep it around, but acknowledge that I can’t offer much.
Great! That is three people on the list already.
In a community there are many different tasks that can be where you shine, and also take personal interest in. Despite the challenges and sometimes frustrations being discussed above, there is a lot of rewarding and uplifting experiences too, which make it all worth it. And there's opportunity to learn useful skills that are much in need not just in social impact movements, but anywhere in modern society where we alienate ever further from each other.
I talked to a handful of ActivityPub developers about this over the weekend in Vancouver. All of them turned out to be in the "Most developers have already left" category that @silverpill was talking about above. I don't want to name names -- they can stand up for themselves if they want to -- but I got a bunch of views on why SocialHub has had little net-benefit for them and what they are working on.
I believe it's also true to say that while there are developers new to ActivityPub all the time, who want to build and are building stuff, they generally don't end up as regulars here.
For me, the question of "who administers the server" and "who pays the bills" are minor questions that can be solved without much difficulty. I'd be happy to contribute, too.
However, the real question is: how do we (for some value of "we") meet the needs of our "customers" (for some value of "customers"), so they value it and engage and come back and contribute. Because if the customers leave, clearly the value isn't there -- and to be frank and consistent with what I heard, I don't have the impression that this goal is at the top of mind of too many people here. Some other goals appear to be, and is fine, but we should not be surprised at the above consequences.
From my perspective, I want as many developers as possible build as much open social web software as possible, consistent with the values, and to do that, we need to treat potential developers as customers and understand what they want and need, and address that. Ideally, this would include -- in an nicely designed integrated whole:
An ActivityPub landing page for developers (e.g. a revamped activitypub.rocks -- in progress)
Extensive, maintained, consistent reference material and examples (currently all over the place, hard to use as a new developer)
Places where to ask questions and discuss (e.g. a forum and/or a chat group)
Online and in-person seminars with "howto" demonstrations or discussions of particular issues
Development tools (e.g. debugging, testing) -- some of this exists, also all over the place in various states
The ability to easily find developers of other applications to resolve interop problems with specific other applications.
Beyond that, for "advanced" developers, we also need debate of extensions and mechanisms (FEPs and the process around them) to further the state of the art.
I believe this is the time to design such a "developer journey" to get them to great interoperating software as directly as possible, and I'd be quite willing to help with that. It doesn't make much sense to me to look at the Socialhub forum in isolation and I would not know how to "fix" it in isolation.
Thanks heaps to @lullis and @melvincarvalho for the admin offers. @how said PS want to see 4 admins volunteer before they're willing to pass the torch, so we need 2 more. @nightpool are you still active on admin duty here? Would you be keen to join a new admin team? j12t:
talked to a handful of ActivityPub developers about this over the weekend in Vancouver. All of them turned out to be in the “Most developers have already left” category
Thanks for asking around @j12t. Your point about the need for a more integrated network of dev spaces and tools is well made. It gels with many of @aschrijver's sentiments about social coding design, and to some degree with my push for more forum federation
But that's a much larger issue that needs it's own topic (or several). SH can't be part of any integrated effort if it vanishes beneath the waves in September.
Coming back to the sentiment that SH isn't currently scratching the itch for some devs, there are some insightful examples in @devnull's topic on FediCon. Including;
Thanks, @j12t and @indieterminacy for your help and feedback! strypey:
Thanks for asking around @j12t. Your point about the need for a more integrated network of dev spaces and tools is well made. It gels with many of @aschrijver’s sentiments about social coding design, and to some degree with my push for more forum federation
Generally speaking it is easy to come up with lists of things that would be helpful to the dev ecosystem. Much harder it is to get people to collab and connect their otherwise independent initiatives, and still harder it is to find people doing the chores to maintain that.
As an example is the need for having comprehensive developer documentation. On SocialHub is still a pinned wiki post with an attempt to crowdsource enough notes for such an artifact. Another example is when @gabek started fedidocs crowdsourcing attempt, and I posted about the need for cohesion in Cohesion of FediDevs with other fediverse initiatives. Fedidocs stalled, migrated orgs, became fedidevs and then stalled again (I think). Why? People don't like to write techdocs in the best of times, and are happy when they have things well in order on their own project. Even less people want to arrange the crowdsourcing process, and editing/publishing chores.
Generally speaking one should not fool oneself talking about "community" when there isn't one. The AP ecosystem is characterized by fiercely independent people who opportunistically come together to talk about subjects of shared interest.
The general tendency in this thread is that SocialHub better offer a broad range of services to become a relevant community again. And I think people underestimate how hard that is, in this environment of individuals.
Positioning advice: Choose between 'community' and 'cohesion'.
My strong advice to any community team stepping up is to first choose between 2 options:
Wanna be a community? Better cover only a comprehensive niche then, with a well-defined audience and scope. See my list with some quickly brainstormed topics as examples. Then foster community.
Otherwise best be a loose collective. Fit for a grassroots environment. On any broader scopes + audiences forget "community", it herding cats lost cause. Find ways where people while working on their own initiatives still combine that into a larger, more valuable whole. Then foster cohesion.
“Any decentralized [ecosystem] requires a centralized substrate, and the more decentralized the approach is the more important it is that you can count on the underlying system.”
when does P.S. plan to give public announcement / responsible disclosure of SocialHub winding down?
We are not planning anything. We've been announcing that we'd like this community to self-manage for years. We're now 'giving an ultimatum' as a last resort because supporting work does not seem to be taken into account as long as things run.
I've read elsewhere that I am "dropping". This is not the case. But if you've been here a long time you must have seen that my participation here has faded away, so I want other people to take over before you're all left with a down server and nobody to turn it on again. trwnh:
Why does the forum need to shut down just because an email domain expires?
It doesn't. But notifications and registration confirmations go through the activitypub.eu domain since we could not get access to the activitypub.rocks domain to manage email there. So if there's now control on activitypub.rocks domain, we could as well move the email there for consistency. aschrijver:
I consider it to be a matter of custodianship responsibility for P.S. to manage the shutdown in a responsible manner.
We're not shutting down. We want other people to take over. If other people do not take over, then it means nobody wants to take responsibility for it, then it should die. aschrijver:
mho it would be better to be open for any proposals
No: there is something very political in the way the SocialHub was organized, that fosters collective work and limits to what is acceptable for a community. If fascists want to take over, or people who do not care about privilege and solidarity, then you'll be left with a backup and we'll go away for good. That's the deal IMO. We don't work for years to let this community fall into preying hands. trwnh:
The value of this SocialHub forum is in bringing people together to discuss things, and the introduction of federation in its current form has been arguably counterproductive to this end. Quite simply, if the discussions about ActivityPub are spread all over random pockets of microblogging, then this is an inferior experience to a proper forum with an actual social context.
aschrijver:
Collect problems that hold the AP dev community back from collaborating and evolve the foundational technologies that the dev ecosystem of the fediverse relies on.
If fedi devs are scattered to the winds, then they did not realize that the SocialHub has been part of the Fediverse for some time, and they should be reminded. aschrijver:
Objective: Convince @how that responsible custodianship is taken care of, and it is responsible to hand over these tasks to the new community custodians.
I'll be convinced when:
I'm not the only one keeping the server up-to-date
We're clear about X, Fakebooz (including threads), and other centralized surveillance systems that the Fediverse is not aligned with them, and strives for other forms of online social relationships not based on domination, nudging nor abuse.
The keys are yours. aschrijver:
Become native to the fediverse. SocialHub is to be part of the fediverse via federation.
Most of it is part of the Fediverse. The #software category is lacking fediversity because software owners didn't federate! lullis:
I’d also volunteer to host this server if needed.
It's not a hosting issue, and it's not an individual issue. Handling the hosting from a non-profit organization to an individual would not make sense. But thank you for volunteering. strypey:
@how can you please confirm that we’re understanding this correctly, or correct us if we’re not, so we’re all clear on what the situation is.
I hope this answer is clarifying my position. In other words: either there is a community here, and the community is taking the engagement to take care for itself, and we're good; or there's no community, and this forum is just a drag on my back, and you can do without, so I can shut it down.
The way the community is taking over, is up to you, but my preference would be as stated so far. jdp23:
On both the “why?” and “what to do about it?”, getting the perspectives of people who aren’t currently here seems key.
We need to federate more, and include the SH groups in the interesting fedi discussions, so that they can be archived here, and not lost in the Fediverse. SH is an archipel, a navigation tool: not a centralizing place. It's easy to add @fep@socialhub.activitypub.rocks to a federated discussion and have a topic created here that includes the ongoing discussion (and there are more AP actors!) aschrijver:
A viable community is where enough of its members care enough for its continued existence.
aschrijver:
And it’d be great if @how could assign forum moderator or even forum admin privilege to some people so they are enabled to organize and steer this thing along efficiently.
Oh yes, that would be great. aschrijver:
Yes, the #fediversity::category channel is where one might ponder if it doesn’t make the audience of the community too broad.
I'm very surprised to read this. I really do not understand why the audience would be too broad. I mean, really. Why? aschrijver:
It is nice to offer dedicated forum space, but most FOSS projects don’t use it.
Indeed. With more people invested in it, they would use it, either from here, or from the Fediverse. strypey1:
that Loomio thread too.
Isn't Loomio federated? Then why is it not common? silverpill:
I doubt that things can be improved if the forum changes ownership (the opposite seems more likely)
Can you elaborate on this @silverpill? strypey:
Given how often PS admins have been incommunicado when thing need fixing or tweaking, and doing facepalm-inducing stuff like threatening to delete most SH accounts
I really do not appreciate your simplification of the situation here @stripey. I find it unfair and quite disrespectful actually. I have been calling for help for years and had to change teams several times over because people actually did not help at all. So putting this on either me or my organization is simply not acceptable. melvincarvalho:
CPU and RAM requirements. Perhaps someone could tell us the spec of the current server?
For me, the question of “who administers the server” and “who pays the bills” are minor questions that can be solved without much difficulty.
Well, I tried solving these questions collectively since 2019, so I'm very open to concrete steps now
I skipped the last two posts because tl;dr, and had to catch up on the whole discussion at once. Sorry for that. BTW, thank you @aschrijver for standing up again and making this discussion happen.
The refutation is way earlier… You can read the whole development in Policy Proposal: SocialHub Community Values. It was a long and hard discussion. And the conclusions are here: So you see, even I did not remember that @kaniini finally agreed.
SocialHub admins can federate categories, making categories accessible in the fediverse. This is an overview of current ActivityPub actors that you can follow and participate in from the Fediverse.
|SocialHub Category | ActivityPub Actor @socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Settings||--- | --- | ---||#activitypub | @protocol@socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Full topic as Notes||#activitypub:s2s | @proto-s2s@socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Full topic as Notes||#activitypub:c2s | @proto-c2s@socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Full topic as Notes||#standards:fep | @feps@socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Full topic as Notes||#community | @community@socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Full topic as Notes||#fediversity | @fediversity@socialhub.activitypub.rocks | Full topic as Notes|
You may find federation information in each federated category on the tools line:
Continuing the discussion from SocialCG should consult SocialHub before appropriating tasks: I’m a bit behind on how AP federation works between forums, so I’m not sure what this means.
I doubt that things can be improved if the forum changes ownership (the opposite seems more likely)
Can you elaborate on this @silverpill?
That's because I don't know anyone who is both interested in running this forum, and is qualified to do that.
First of all, I think it shouldn't be handed to someone who is not an active forum participant.
But in this thread? Many share a strange patronizing attitude towards developers. Like we're sheep incapable of self-organizing that must be herded to some website in order to be educated by wise community managers and spoonfed with linked data slop. Thanks but no. This attitude is absolutely the last thing we need on a developer forum.
In theory, the place can be run by developers themselves, but nowadays most of us use our own software, and we can talk to each other directly without SocialHub in the middle, or via other forums and groups.
At this point I am fairly convinced that shutting down the forum and publishing a static archive is the best option.
we can talk to each other directly without SocialHub in the middle
The SocialHub is not exactly in the middle: it's part of the Fediverse. So it would only be normal that discussions relevant to everyone would be archived here, since they would be transmitted here as well.
But most discussions about fediverse development elsewhere on the fediverse aren't transmitted to SocialHub as well. There's a lot that factors into this, including:
technology limitations. Kudos to the work that @devnull et al are doing on that front, and there's steady progress, but are there any forum-based spaces that are well-integrated in this way with the broader microblogging fediverse today?
awareness; some devs don't know that they can tag communities here to create a thread on SocialHub, others know in principle but (since it requires an extra step they don't do on most posts) just don't remember to do it in situations where it would make sense.
on topics other than FEPs, it's not clear what the value is -- and there are also costs to take into account
One way to look at this is that the initial attempts at SocialHub federation were a prototype that wasn't as broadly useful as hoped but has succeeded in revealing issues that need to be addressed. In another thread you mentioned that right now SocialHub "feels like a failure" because it hasn't able to keep a stable and growing and rotating team of responsible people in general, although the FEP team is going well ... looking at it as a prototype, though, it's not a failure: it's identified a use case that's a good match for the current state of the prototype, as well as a big challenge to address to extend to other use cases.
In terms of the overall reboot or shutdown question ... those aren't the only two options. Another possibility is to take a hiatus, putting the community into read-only mode for a while; or, narrowing of focus, at least in the short term, for example keeping the FEP discussions going and shifting other stuff into read-only for the time being (if that's possible in Discourse). Both of these keep open the option of moving SocialHub forward (potentially in a different form). They also create an opportunity to see what alternatives evolve on their own -- and the space to come up with proposals and plans for moving forward that identify and address the underlying challenges.
Then again, sometime the takeaway from a prototype -- even one with valuable learning -- is that this isn't a direction you see as practical to pursue given the overall constraints. If SocialHub shuts down, people who see value in some or all of what happens here will start up other mechanisms; to the extent that there's currently a community here, it can migrate. As long as there's an archive, or the site's available in read-only mode, history isn't lost; and everything here is CC-SA-4.0 so new sites can take whatever subset is useful. All of that's true whether or not you officially pass the torch to somebody else.
But in this thread? Many share a strange patronizing attitude towards developers. Like we’re sheep incapable of self-organizing that must be herded to some website in order to be educated by wise community managers and spoonfed with linked data slop. Thanks but no. This attitude is absolutely the last thing we need on a developer forum.
Where are you seeing this? From what I'm seeing, the discussion is not about any of those things, so this is quite the bizarre statement. I also don't think this is strictly a "developer forum", as there are several different sections dedicated to software, spec work, interest gathering, and so on -- and participation is welcomed by anyone. silverpill:
In theory, the place can be run by developers themselves, but nowadays most of us use our own software, and we can talk to each other directly without SocialHub in the middle, or via other forums and groups.
If there are "other forums and groups", then no one is being made broadly aware of them. If the answer is "we can talk to each other directly", then this is essentially abdicating any sort of collective communication -- if you don't follow a bunch of the people involved, you won't see the conversations.
As it stands, SocialHub is the most prominent place to go if you want to see discussions about ActivityPub and related topics. I'm not aware of any more prominent venues. This isn't to say that anyone is being "herded to some website" or that SocialHub must be "in the middle", but it is generally valuable if the discussions end up being collected somewhere in aggregate, and it is generally convenient if the discussions can be carried out long-form with all the creature comforts of forums and none of the limitations of microblogging. What's the alternative being posed here? Where do people go for this stuff?
> I also don't think this is strictly a "developer forum", as there are several different sections dedicated to software, spec work, interest gathering, and so on -- and participation is welcomed by anyone.
Fair, there is space for all of these discussions, but considering that of a given set of ActivityPub developers, only a small subset of those developers contribute to SocialHub.
That may be a signal that either the existing space is not suitable for AP implementors, or a new space may be a welcome addition.
of a given set of ActivityPub developers, only a small subset of those developers contribute to SocialHub.
That may be a signal that either the existing space is not suitable for AP implementors, or a new space may be a welcome addition.
I would pose this question in two parts:
What are developers doing that could be brought to a forum like SocialHub?
What makes SocialHub specifically not suitable for bringing those topics here?
The existence of any forum implies an opportunity for collaborative participation rather than a mandate. It would be helpful to have explicitly identified examples of discussions that could be brought to a forum, and explicitly identified sentiments of why those discussions weren't brought to this forum.
So far, the most clearly articulated objection seems to be advocating for bypassing forums in favor of ad-hoc communications or backchannels. Perhaps this is adequate for fixing one-off bugs as compared to creating a topic in that software's category. Perhaps that bug was filed on a project's issue tracker instead. But for having sustained conversations over the course of days or weeks or months or even years about meatier topics, I can't imagine much effectiveness in a scattered diffuse set of posts only living on people's profiles if you scroll back far enough.
Personally, I bring such conversations here because I don't want them to be lost to the timeline and I don't want character limits or a lack of blockquotes to impair my communications. I also know that there is an audience here for ActivityPub-related special interest topics, whereas there is no such expectation for my hangout spot where i go to check in on what some friends are doing. the context matters a lot.
Great questions @trwnh, relevant not to just SocialHub but also to alternatives. trwnh:
What are developers doing that could be brought to a forum like SocialHub?
Here's some examples of some of the conversations happening now or over the last couple of weeks that fit in SocialHub's scope (as I understand it) and seem relevant to developers (they all relate to limitations and/or potential improvements in the software).
the Dropsitenews report about Meta's scraping
starter packs and consent (sparked by the Mastodon announcement)
A New Social's post on crossposting vs bridging that also led to discussion of federation in the client
Fedi clients (sparked by a request from Laurens and a couple of discussions in Fediverse Report)
the Online Services Act / EU and Australia age verification and their implications
the "verify your account" spam/scam
Ghost's ActivityPub support (including their currently-proprietary client)
trwnh:
What makes SocialHub specifically not suitable for bringing those topics here?
In a nutshell:
people who are active on SocialHub don't bring those topics here when they see them, presumably because they don't see value in doing so. You mentioned that you personally bring conversations here because you know there's an audience here for the ActivityPub topics you focus on, but that's not necessarily true for topics like these. You also cited character limits and a lack of blockquotes but other than vanilla Mastodon most fedi software supports that pretty well, so again that's not relevant for a lot of people.
people who aren't active on SocialHub generally have no incentive to bring discussions here
even if people who don't have accounts here want to bring discussions here, it's not in general obvious how. I experimented with trying to bring the bridging / crossposting / federation in the client post here. The first dilemma was not knowing what account to tag for a given post; even once I found the list, should it be fediversity, software, or ... ? I chose Fediversity, and replied to the thread tagging the category actor ... but nothing showed up here. So I started a new thread, tagging the category actor ... but once again, nothing showed up here.
Of course these aren't only challenges for SocialHub. A few of these discussions are on piefed.social/c/fediverse and lemmy.world/c/fediverse but most aren't. That said, I do think the specific dynamics of who's currently active on SocialHub and what they're interested accentuate the problems. A reboot could offer opportunities to make progress on those, but if it's being driven by the people who are currently active here I'm not sure how likely that is.
itch.io is a simple way to find, download and distribute indie games online. Whether you're a developer looking to upload your game or just someone looking for something new to play itch.io has you covered.
(In a discussion on SocialHub, @trwnh asked what kinds of developer-focused discussions were happening elsewhere on fedi and what the barriers were to bringing them to SocialHub. This is certainly a good example! So, as an experiment, I'm going to try tagging @ fediversity @ socialhub.activitypub.rocks to see how that works.*)
I certainly agree about the connections and (where feasible) interop across networks/protocols as being critical. From a terminology perspective it might be better to come up with another term that includes server-based federation (via a same protocol), cross-protocol adapters (server-side connect across protocols), and cross-posting with client support for merging discussions.
* EDIT: it didn't work. In fact it may well. have caused a load spike on SocialHub that made SocialHub unavailable for a few minutes, although it's possible that was just coincidence. In any case I edited this post to remove the tag to keep anybody else from unintentionally also temporarily crashing SocialHub!
It goes both ways. There are a lot of interesting discussions started here and not elsewhere. It all contributes to the grassroots ecosystem at large and helps evolve the fediverse. The AP dev community has a broad range of opinions, ideologies, values, things they find important. And all across the ecosystem there are various independent initiatives where people can find their peers, and join groups they feel most comfortable to be with. It is a good thing, that. It helps stimulate the overall diversity of the ecosystem, and resilience of the fedi movement as a whole. If there's sustained custodianship of SocialHub, and a dedicated community team, then SocialHub is viable.
Damn what's with the crazy Corbyn hate boner? The one politician trying to stand up for the people but instead everyone wants to slobber off Keir Starmer.
Jeremy Corbyn has just announced he is launching a brand new left-wing party – but it already sounds very similar to the Green Party’s proposals.
Together with fellow former Labour MP Zarah Sultana, the ex-Labour leader promised a “new kind of political party” which “belongs to you”.
They said they would call for a wealth tax, champion an NHS which is free from privatisation, stand up for Palestine and challenge the fossil fuel giants “putting their profits before our planet”.
These policies are not dissimilar to those backed by the Green Party, which many former Labour supporters, now disillusioned, have flocked to over the last year.
That could therefore put the two parties at odds with one another.
Zack Polanski, the frontrunner in the ongoing Greens’ leadership race and the party’s current deputy, told HuffPost UK shortly after Corbyn’s announcement it is clear the parties have plenty in common.
He noted: “I’ve read the statement and I can’t see a single thing in there that’s not Green Party policy or doesn’t align already with the Green Party.”
He said: “I really like Jeremy and Zarah both as people and also as politicians. I’m supportive of anything they’re setting up.”
But the London Assembly member also made it clear they would be “welcome” in the Greens, which he called a “movement for change”.
He said: “I think it’s a positive thing that they’ve recognised that the Labour Party as a vehicle of progressive change that utterly collapsed, and it’s time to abandon it. They’ve not left the Labour Party, but Labour Party has left them.”
However, he noted that – unlike Corbyn’s new group – the Greens do not need to have a conference in the autumn to decide their name.
“Maybe that conference should decide actually, the Green party exists and is doing really well,” Polanski said, pointing to the nearly two million votes they secured in the general election. “It kind of makes sense to join the Green Party.”
Bit of a bummer about Ozzy, but not exactly a shocker. Hulk Hogan was a celebrity? He starred in one of the 3 Ninjas movies, but that's the only time I've ever heard of the guy.
Secondo Capasa, Presidente di Camera Nazionale della Moda Italiana, lo sfruttamento nella moda è un fenomeno limitato.
Ad ora sono stati indagati:
• Alviero Martini
• Armani operations
• Dior Manufactures
• Valentino Bags
• Loro Piana
Fenomeni isolati o sistema strutturale?
Si tratta davvero di fenomeni isolati? Oppure la moda è totalmente nella mani della finanza, dei grandi fondi - del lusso (LVMH, Kering, Richemont) e del fast fashion (Shein, Zara, H&M) - espressione del capitalismo puro?
Spazi di resistenza:
🔴 Slow fashion, piccoli brand indipendenti.
🔴 Comunità che rifiutano il consumismo (es. DIY, swap parties).
La domanda vera è: Possiamo immaginare una moda davvero libera dal capitalismo? O è un’utopia?
Decifrare le antiche iscrizioni romane con l'AI è possibile
Google DeepMind, il laboratorio di ricerca sull'AI di Google, ha presentato Aeneas, un modello progettato specificamente per aiutare gli studiosi a comprendere, attribuire e persino ricostruire i testi antichi.
Decifrare le antiche iscrizioni romane con l'AI è possibile
Google DeepMind, il laboratorio di ricerca sull'AI di Google, ha presentato Aeneas, un modello progettato specificamente per aiutare gli studiosi a comprendere, attribuire e persino ricostruire i testi antichi.
The games were mentioned in a 2024 report and are now part of a new lawsuit in which a 11 year old girl was allegedly groomed and sexually assaulted after meeting a stranger on Roblox.
An error message appears saying "The following are not allowed: no zionist, no zionists" when users try to add the phrase to their bios, but any number of other phrases about political and religious preferences are allowed.
Trump’s bitter dislike of renewable energy first erupted publicly 14 years ago in a seemingly trivial spat over wind turbines visible from his Scottish golf course. As Trump returns to Scotland this week, though, he is using the US presidency to squash clean power, with major ramifications for the climate crisis and America’s place in the world.
Although Trump failed in his legal attempt to halt the Scottish wind farm, an enduring scorn towards renewables appears to have been seeded that now has global consequences.
As president, Trump has declared wind and solar projects unwelcome in the US, barring them from federal lands and signing a vast spending bill that demolishes support for a nascent industry that held the promise of revamping the American economy while cutting dangerous planet-heating pollution.
It's so wild. I vacationed in Northern England, about an hour south of Scotland, in Tynemouth, and our whole family found the offshore turbines to be magical.
There's ruins of like a massive 4-6 story monastery from the 15th century, and it's wild because the remnants of the one wall are the tallest thing in town, and have been for centuries. There's literally paintings and drawings going back centuries showing it, and centuries and centuries of people living in the shadow of this partial massive monument that no longer exists.
It's super interesting, but there's also something kind of inherently scary and depressing about feeling like you're seeing ancient remnants of some massive great thing that can no longer be done.
But then at a foggy sunset we saw the off shore turbines and it was genuinely uplifting and magical in a solar punk way. Just the blades peaked out of the fog, and similar to the monastery ruins, they looked too big to be created by humans, but these were actually still working. It felt like it was providing a glimpse into our future massive endeavours, and was one of the most magical moments of the whole trip.
Cibo, buon vino e musica si fondono per il ritorno, sabato 2 agosto, della rassegna "Calici sotto i tre colli". Il borgo medioevale di Brisighella si trasformerà in una cantina a cielo aperto per poter gustare buon cibo da strada e i calici delle migliori produzioni vinicole del territorio. Il tutto accompagnato da spettacoli di musica dal vivo nello splendido scenario del 3 colli.
Dalle ore 20:15 in Piazza Marconi va in scena l'esibizione di "Encuentros – Live tra Flamenco e Pop" con Carlo Calderano alla chitarra flamenca e Valentina Rambelli alla voce. Sul palco la formazione di flamenco pop che unisce gli studi classici e la sonorità flamenca che restituiscono un mix di accorgimenti armonici e sonorità per nulla scontati.
Dalle ore 21:45 in Piazza Carducci è il turno dei “7SevenUp" con loro carica esplosiva, dettata anche dalla giovane età, nella migliore esplorazione delle hit degli anni ‘90 e Duemila.
Durante la serata, passeggiando per il centro storico, si potranno inoltre assaggiare gli ottimi vini delle cantine del territorio: Baccagnano, Cantina Bulzaga, Ca’ Barchi, CAB Terra di Brisighella, Cantina Casadio, Conte di Val D’Amone, Gallegati, Le lagune Terre Antiche, Loiano, Tenuta Uccellina, Terra e Sale, Terrabusi, Vespignano, Vigne di San Lorenzo, Villa Liverzano, Zinzani.
L'ingresso è a offerta libera. Per informazioni www.brisighella.org.
Nel centro di Brisighella torna “Calici sotto i tre colli” La musica sotto le stelle si fonde con il buon cibo e le degustazioni di vino Cibo, buon vino e musica si fondono per il ritorno, sabato 2 agosto, della...
Torna anche questo agosto il festival che regala due giorni magici nel bellissimo borgo marchigiano di Ripatransone con spettacoli di grandi artisti, laboratori, street food e visite guidate al Museo della Matemagica e alle sue incredibili illusioni ottiche.
Il cuore della nuova edizione di RipaMagic batte forte nel nome di Mattia Flip, al secolo Mattia Bidoli, mago, fotografo e operatore umanitario che da oltre quindici anni porta la magia nei luoghi più feriti del mondo: ospedali da campo, carceri, campi profughi, zone di guerra.
Oltre allo spettacolo che aprirà la prima giornata, Mattia sarà protagonista di un incontro pubblico in cui condividerà esperienze, immagini e storie dai conflitti in Siria, Libano, Iraq, Ucraina e nella Striscia di Gaza, dove ha trasformato le sue esibizioni in gesti di cura, resistenza e umanità.
Accanto a lui, un cast ricco di artisti italiani e internazionali: dal cubano Ernesto Planas Roldan - maestro mondiale della comedy magic, Luca D’Avvero – definito “giocoliere della magia” e “comico del pericolo”, Manuel Guarnori - specializzato in grandi effetti scenici; Tino Fimiani - già protagonista a Zelig Circus e in tournée con Arturo Brachetti - Madame Rebiné, Daigoro e Giacomo Seri.
RipaMagic Magia, illusionismo, comicità e incontri straordinari tra le piazze e i giardini di Ripatransone. Due giorni gratuiti con grandi artisti, laboratori e museo interattivo.
Il 2-3 agosto a Sefro (MC) torna “La Trota e il Verdicchio”, evento tra natura, gusto e racconti, nel cuore dell’Appennino marchigiano. Sabato 2 si parte con la finalissima del social contest dedicato alla trota: tre content creator presenteranno le proprie creazioni alla giuria composta dalle chef Serena D’Alesio e Maria Rita Spoglia, dal prof. Giovanni Caprioli (Unicam) e da Manuel Saraceno, ambassador di Giallo Zafferano.
La serata proseguirà con l’inaugurazione del Parco Sensoriale e con “Sorgenti d’eccellenza”, una cena evento che celebra l’incontro tra trota e Verdicchio, arricchita dalle testimonianze di imprenditori come Lanfranco Beleggia (Brosway), Domenico Guzzini (Fimag) e Antonio Centocanti (Cantine Belisario), intervistati da Erika Mariniello.
Domenica 3 si apre all’insegna del benessere con il Forest Bathing drammaturgico a cura di Barbara Migliorelli. Nel pomeriggio spazio ai bambini con “Il baule delle storie” di Roberta Mora. Alle 18:00 presso la Torre da Varano, Natasha Stefanenko presenterà il suo libro “Dalle Marche con amore” in dialogo con la giornalista Sara Santacchi.
Gran finale serale con l’Aperitrota: clubbing, sperimentazione gastronomica e trota d’autore con gli chef Marta Pierozzi e Paolo Pistola. Alla consolle DJ Jacopo Jajani e il violinista Andrea Casta.
“La Trota e il Verdicchio” è promosso dal Comune di Sefro con il cofinanziamento della Regione Marche nell’ambito del programma FEAMPA, e fa parte del Grand Tour delle Marche, circuito di eventi firmato Tipicità e ANCI Marche. Due giorni per scoprire un borgo che si propone come capitale del buon vivere nella Regione del benessere.
Il 2-3 agosto, a Sefro (MC), torna “La Trota e il Verdicchio”. Sefro: elisir di benessere! Due giorni tra natura, gusto, racconti. Un programma ricco di esperienze per ogni età. Il primo week end di agosto, nell’incantevole borgo di Sefro...
LOS ANGELES — Sales of previously occupied U.S. homes slid in June to the slowest pace since last September as mortgage rates remained elevated and the national median sales price rose to an all-time high of $435,300
Same here. I also kept ignoring my window ac units alert about cleaning the filter until it just stopped working. I cleaned the filter and it magically works a lot better.
The layer of dirt on him was the only thing keeping newer forms of germs from infecting him simce his skin couldnt do it anymore. They washed him and killed him.
A motor that runs at a constant speed all the time can last basically forever. Starting and stopping puts way more stress on the mechanical parts.
Same reason I hate how modern hard drive enclosures force the hard drive to shut down after a period of inactivity. With a lot of workloads it will keep spinning up, stopping, and spinning up again which is a great way to kill the motor.
Well I'm pretty sure my grandpa bought this thing at walmart for like 10$ so idk about a 100 year warranty but it outlived him already. Now it's on to me.
No More Forced Restarts: This is a huge relief for many!. Firefox on Linux no longer requires a forced restart after your package manager applies an update. This means smoother, uninterrupted browsing, even during system updates.
Reduced Memory Usage: ForkServer leads to a significant reduction in memory consumption for content processes. The base resident memory for a content process is now around 50% lower. This helps Firefox run more efficiently, especially if you have many tabs open.
Faster Process Startup: You'll notice that content process startup times are reduced by approximately 35%. This translates to snappier new tab openings and overall improved responsiveness.
I have currently 13 tabs open and I don’t see the issue. RAM is there to be used. I actually expect my programs to extensively cache stuff and use the RAM.
(The other Firefox processes for the individual tabs are cut from the screenshot.)
Absolutely, it's only about convenience. I often miss the fact that firefox is in the list of all the packages that are getting updated and realize it only when I open a new tab and I get the error message, and that's annoying. Very much a first world problem for sure!
Per tutti gli amanti della corsa, ecco un evento a cui poter partecipare.
Nella meravigliosa Val Camonica, un posto unico, dove ci ho lasciato un pezzo di cuore.
[url=https://citiverse.it/category/running@lemmy.world]@running@lemmy.world[/url]
:link: [u
Per tutti gli amanti della corsa, ecco un evento a cui poter partecipare. Nella meravigliosa Val Camonica, un posto unico, dove ci ho lasciato un pezzo di cuore.
Il 31 agosto a Capo di Ponte si terrà la Run Aragosta, corsa non competitiva che promuove salute, divertimento e solidarietà. L'iniziativa gratuita, ma tutti contribuiscono
Oracle and OpenAI expand Stargate project with 4.5 gigawatts of data center capacity, part of a $500 billion U.S. AI infrastructure investment creating over 100,000 jobs.
Microsoft is also involved in Stargate as a tech partner. So are Arm and Nvidia. Middle East AI fund MGX will join SoftBank in its investment; MGX’s first public deal was an investment in OpenAI.
SoftBank, OpenAI, and Oracle are also listed as “initial equity investors” in Stargate.
It's interesting that FoxNews omit that the source for big part of that funding is coming from Middle East.
besselj
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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pelespirit
in reply to besselj • • •like this
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hornedfiend
in reply to besselj • • •wouldn’t that make it worse? basically any signal can bounce off you, making yourself even easier to track.
edit: wording
besselj
in reply to hornedfiend • • •like this
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Flagstaff
in reply to besselj • • •DasFaultier
in reply to Flagstaff • • •Diplomjodler
in reply to DasFaultier • • •Passerby6497
in reply to Flagstaff • • •MadMadBunny
in reply to Passerby6497 • • •kerntucky
in reply to MadMadBunny • • •Capricorn_Geriatric
in reply to hornedfiend • • •Since it 'figerprints' you, changing your fingerprint by blocking parts of the signal with pieces of foil doesn't seem like a terrible idea.
Now, the question is: is such a tactic like wearing gloves, or like using super glue?
hisao
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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jmill
in reply to hisao • • •like this
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pdxfed
in reply to jmill • • •This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥
in reply to pdxfed • • •setVeryLoud(true);
in reply to This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥 • • •hakunawazo
in reply to This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥 • • •FiddlersViridian
in reply to hakunawazo • • •🏆 Here is an award for the best comment in the thread.
This may be the largest gap between the quality of an actors performance vs the movie it's in.
Truly an abysmal movie, but Rahul Julia is so much fun to watch in it.
kazerniel
in reply to hakunawazo • • •🇦🇺𝕄𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕𝕔𝕣𝕠𝕔𝕠𝕕𝕚𝕝𝕖
in reply to hisao • • •like this
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Saleh
in reply to hisao • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.comDiplomjodler
in reply to hisao • • •TonyTonyChopper
in reply to Diplomjodler • • •artyom
in reply to bignose • • •hhhhwat. How can they identify you and also be privacy preserving? 🤔
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sorter_plainview
in reply to artyom • • •artyom
in reply to sorter_plainview • • •realitista
in reply to artyom • • •artyom
in reply to realitista • • •realitista
in reply to artyom • • •Well they can identify you are the same person but not your identity.. So it's like a disenbodied fingerprint.
I suppose they could potentially make some database and train an AI on it someday to match to actual identities, but usefulness would be pretty limited at only 95% accuracy. That's a false reading 1/20 times, so I suspect it would fail bigly to accurately recognize people from large data sets.
Warehouse
in reply to realitista • • •And when has something like that ever stopped anyone?
realitista
in reply to Warehouse • • •Vinstaal0
in reply to artyom • • •They know you are a person and they can call your a certain UUID, but there will be a hard time matching you to your name etc.
Camera's can do face recognition (if your face is even in the database) to know who you are.
This only works until the point where they have your form in a database which they can check...
artyom
in reply to Vinstaal0 • • •Vinstaal0
in reply to artyom • • •Never said that it wasn’t easy, it’s just harder than with facial recognition.
In theory you could do it correctly in a way that it isn’t indentifiable.
Also this works in places where faces are protected
Diplomjodler
in reply to artyom • • •Empricorn
in reply to artyom • • •LillyPip
in reply to bignose • • •Neat. Good luck protecting yourself from this.
On the other hand, I’m seriously considering opening an Etsy shop selling foil-lined clothes. I’m pretty good at sewing. What do you think?
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svc
in reply to LillyPip • • •- YouTube
youtu.beZer0_F0x
in reply to svc • • •NaibofTabr
in reply to LillyPip • • •MysteriousSophon21
in reply to LillyPip • • •LillyPip
in reply to MysteriousSophon21 • • •I feel like you’re overthinking this. There are people who buy crystal-infused drinking cups to reset their personal feng shui. (Spoiler: it’s just glitter.)
I really wish I didn’t have morals. It’s so easy to make money if you’re willing to fleece people.
e: autocorrect
BananaOnionJuice
in reply to LillyPip • • •boonhet
in reply to LillyPip • • •ayyy
in reply to LillyPip • • •License Plate
xkcdThis is fine🔥🐶☕🔥
in reply to bignose • • •Chuck vindicated. What a chicanery.
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eleitl
in reply to This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥 • • •TonyTonyChopper
in reply to eleitl • • •PattyMcB
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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Telorand
in reply to PattyMcB • • •WizardofFrobozz
in reply to Telorand • • •unmagical
in reply to bignose • • •I'm generally pro research, but occasionally I come across a body of research and wish I could just shut down what they're doing and rewind the clock to before that started.
There is no benefit of this for the common person. There is no end user need or product for being able to identify individuals based on their interactions with WiFi signals. The only people that benefit from this are large corporations and governments and that's from them turning it on you.
Continued research will ease widespread surveillance and mass tracking. That's not a good thing.
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realitista
in reply to unmagical • • •like this
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SufferingSteve
in reply to realitista • • •like this
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Vinstaal0
in reply to unmagical • • •like this
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unmagical
in reply to Vinstaal0 • • •If all you need is presence detection then a motion sensor would be vastly more efficient.
If you actually need identity detection, then maybe, but you'll still have to have a camera or detailed access logs to associate the interference signature with a known entity and at that point you may as well just put an RFID reader under the bowl you throw your keys into or use facial or gait detection.
Vinstaal0
in reply to unmagical • • •Jarix
in reply to unmagical • • •unmagical
in reply to Jarix • • •Probably not.
This kind of thing relies on the fact that the emitter and environments are static, impacting the propagation of the signals in a predictable way and that each person, having a unique physique, consistently interferes with that propagation in the same way. It's a tool that reports "the interference in this room looks like the same interference observed in these past cases."
Search and rescue is a very dynamic environment, with no opportunity to establish a local baseline, and with a high likelihood that the physiological signal you are looking for has been altered (such as by broken or severed limbs).
There are some other WiFi sniffing technologies that might be more useful for S&R such as movement detection, but I'm not sure if that will work as well when the broadcaster is outside the environment (as the more rubble between the emitter and the target the weaker your signal from reflections against the rubble).
Don't think of this as being able to see through walls like with a futuristic camera, think of this as AI assisted anomaly detection in signal processing (which is exactly what the researchers are doing).
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nooneescapesthelaw
in reply to unmagical • • •FINDER Finds Its Way into Rescuers’ Toolkits | NASA Spinoff
spinoff.nasa.govunmagical
in reply to nooneescapesthelaw • • •Microwave based ground penetrating radar is actually different from WiFi. Also the technology referenced in the link is a motion based body locator, not an identity recognition device.
This is different technology doing different things than what the original article was talking about.
Revan343
in reply to Jarix • • •Jarix
in reply to Revan343 • • •I mean I don't understand this as a lay person, so if it doesn't work then fair enough, but if wifi signals can identify human beings, and pets, when a building collapses better than other methods, or even augment the capabilities already used, then at least there is some benefit from this technique. It's not going to disappear, Genie is out of the bottle now, so why not at least put it to a good use instead of keeping it only being abused by the billionaires and other evil entities.
It's too late now to stop that and I hate that they can do this.
Please don't mistake me trying to find a silver lining as anything other than trying to find a reason that this isn't just another way we are fucked but the science is what it is so out it to better use. It's an interesting capability regardless of how it can be abused, and since we aren't going to stop using the technology we should really understand exactly how this works by using it and making it was beneficial as possible.. Until we were ready to ban the tech, which I have no faith that we will ever.
A bespoke device made to do this, not just your wifi router at home, might as well study it for good praises, or we may if only be abused with little defence against our collective abusers
nooneescapesthelaw
in reply to Jarix • • •You are correct because something similar has already been used
spinoff.nasa.gov/FINDER-Finds-…
Microwaves are the same as wifi waves, these are able to detect bodies and whether the bodies are beating or not
FINDER Finds Its Way into Rescuers’ Toolkits | NASA Spinoff
spinoff.nasa.govunmagical
in reply to nooneescapesthelaw • • •WiFi uses a subset of the significantly wider microwave band. Ground Penetrating Radar also uses a subset of the microwave band. While there can be some overlap, the frequencies desired for GPR will very broadly based on what you are looking for, what you are looking in, and how deep you are looking for that thing. The wattage supplied can also differ.
WiFi and Microwaves in general are most definitely not the same thing and I will absolutely encourage you to not set up a 1kW 3GHz jamming antenna for your WiFi needs.
Could you use WiFi for search and rescue? Maybe for a narrow set of circumstances, but in almost all situations a dedicated GPR option will be better.
This also won't identify a victim, only revealing that one exists.
Revan343
in reply to unmagical • • •Cat tracker
unmagical
in reply to Revan343 • • •Revan343
in reply to unmagical • • •muusemuuse
in reply to Revan343 • • •pulsewidth
in reply to unmagical • • •First - someone comes up with this. Next, privacy researchers and black/white/grey hat techies come up with methods to defeat it.
Better for surveillance tech research like this to be published out in the open than developed in some secret lab. I figure these researchers are doing more positive than negative by publishing their findings. It's not like if they didn't publish, someone else wouldn't come up with this and possibly use it clandestinely.
Seleni
in reply to bignose • • •Oh fuck all the way off.
iglou
in reply to Seleni • • •D_C
in reply to Seleni • • •Christ, 1% is included in that "up to 95.5%" vague bullshit statement.
novus_dervish
in reply to D_C • • •I believe the reason they had to say "up to" is because the "signatute" will vary day to day ever so slightly (natural weight fluctuation), and if you gain or lose weight it can change dramatically, so the AI would have to constantly consider that and adjust it's records.
Honestly, unpopular opinion, but as long as it isn't very short wavelength RF and they allow for self-hosted/open-source alternatives, I do find it a bit more privacy respecting than cameras, of course they have to say they are using the technology in public places.
It also has it's ways of fooling it, instead of wearing a wig and a false nose, you could wear a carbon-infused silicone fat suit to change the way you interact with RF.
toynbee
in reply to D_C • • •I hate it when commercials say "up to 100%." It's literally a pointless metric; that could mean anything from 0% to 100%, inclusive.
edit: Closed quote.
Smoogs
in reply to Seleni • • •no banana
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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INHALE_VEGETABLES
in reply to no banana • • •like this
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Diplomjodler
in reply to INHALE_VEGETABLES • • •like this
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i_dont_want_to
in reply to Diplomjodler • • •SGG
in reply to INHALE_VEGETABLES • • •like this
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muusemuuse
in reply to INHALE_VEGETABLES • • •Valmond
in reply to bignose • • •ParadoxSeahorse
in reply to bignose • • •IndustryStandard
in reply to ParadoxSeahorse • • •Sabata
in reply to bignose • • •ayane_m
in reply to Sabata • • •Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to bignose • • •hodgepodgin
in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge • • •Sorry dude I forgot to add your bio signature to my WiFi router.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to hodgepodgin • • •Glitterbomb
in reply to bignose • • •This shits already used by xfinity
xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wif…
WiFi Motion: Detect Movement In Your Home
www.xfinity.comEvotech
in reply to Glitterbomb • • •GrantUsEyes
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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hakunawazo
in reply to GrantUsEyes • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.comileftreddit
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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gcheliotis
in reply to ileftreddit • • •sugar_in_your_tea
in reply to gcheliotis • • •turtlesareneat
in reply to sugar_in_your_tea • • •Once you start playing with radiowaves and antenna you start noticing the intricate ways it plays with and around bags of water like bodies. I'm sure the original research on location/movement tracking was due to scientists trying not to get interference, later once they figured it out it was natural to see how much data they could get out of a radio interference profile.
I remember the original tech was going to be marketed as a way to tell if your old person (parent etc) had fallen down and stopped moving. Not the best use case, and then the privacy implications became clear. Once that happens the race begins to exploit the tech.
...But the eventuality here is something like a Star Trek tricorder that can take multiple vitals and detect irregularities from across the waiting room. Sensors that remember who was in a room and what settings they had. Etc. Some cool thing besides the bad stuff (microtarget those ads).
StenSaksTapir
in reply to ileftreddit • • •Echo Dot
in reply to StenSaksTapir • • •StenSaksTapir
in reply to Echo Dot • • •Cameras require light, while radio waves works almost as well in darkness.
A motion sensor is an extra device that needs to be connected, have power and so on.
There are already radio wave motion- and room occupancy sensors where you can specify zones and so on, but if I could have personalized on top of that I'd take it.
Finally, using a thing for something useful other than its intended purpose is kinda fun.
douglasg14b
in reply to ileftreddit • • •Everything is incremental progress in some way.
I remember years back someone doing experiments with Wi-Fi to see if a room was occupied based on signal attenuation.
This just looks like an extension of that.
Not everything is a giant leap
MouldyCat
in reply to ileftreddit • • •You think if people who publish their work publicly didn't research things like this, they would just never be discovered?
At least this way, we all know about the possibility, and further research can be done to see what can mitigate it.
whotookkarl
in reply to bignose • • •like this
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ILikeBoobies
in reply to bignose • • •IhaveCrabs111
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •ILikeBoobies
in reply to IhaveCrabs111 • • •People willingly provide enough tracking of themselves already
While this could have military applications, the need to generate a profile of the person you want to track makes this less of a concern for your average “carries a phone everywhere” person
IhaveCrabs111
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •Echo Dot
in reply to bignose • • •The resulting image must just basically look like a shadow, I can't imagine that they're going to get much internal detail with Wi-Fi considering that my router's signal practically gets blocked by a piece of cardboard.
This research essentially amounts to, humans can be individually identified with nothing more than low quality x-rays. Well yeah, so what, you can also use visible light and in any situation where you're going to use Wi-Fi to detect someone, it's got to be easier to buy a cheap CCTV camera.
douglasg14b
in reply to Echo Dot • • •voodooattack
in reply to Echo Dot • • •First of all: cardboard does NOT block electromagnetic waves. You need a Faraday Cage for that. And even then, it has to have holes of a certain size to block specific wavelengths/frequencies. It’s why you have a mesh on the door of your microwave for example.
Secondly: they’re not attempting to photograph you. Just identifying your unique signature once would allow them to track your location anywhere where they have the gear installed.
enclosure of conductive mesh used to block electric fields
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)leburb
in reply to voodooattack • • •EDIT: I suppose your comment is written in a way that it's not clear whether you're saying certain frequencies absolutely require meshes of a certain size to be blocked or if you're just adding that extra detail about the design of Faraday cages for the hell of it. But...
Original comment: It doesn't have to have holes to block radiation. A continuous sheet blocks all frequencies. A mesh is just nice so we can see through the cage or allow air to pass etc.
From the page you linked: "A Faraday shield may be formed by a continuous covering of conductive material." "... if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation."
voodooattack
in reply to leburb • • •jj4211
in reply to Echo Dot • • •They explicitly went into the advantages over cameras:
- Any light condition (of course IR lighting with IR cameras are the gold standard so this can argueably be met otherwise)
- The ability to cover multiple rooms through walls with a device. A sub-10 GHz signal can penetrate most interior walls. People could be tracked without even being able to see a camera and by extension not knowing where to mess with to defeat surveillance.
So perhaps a building takes a picture of everyone as they come in the front door and also establishes a 'WhoFi' profile for that person. They could keep track of their movement through the building while maintaining an actionable correlation to a photo.
Goretantath
in reply to Echo Dot • • •voodooattack
in reply to bignose • • •Baleine
in reply to voodooattack • • •2910000
in reply to Baleine • • •GreenKnight23
in reply to 2910000 • • •you might be onto something.
take a mylar square and place it somewhere random on your body every day.
Pulptastic
in reply to GreenKnight23 • • •Krudler
in reply to GreenKnight23 • • •Eat a piece of spinach and increase the iron in your body.
This is all beyond stupid and hysterical.
GreenKnight23
in reply to Krudler • • •instructions unclear, I have glued spinach to my skin and the rabbits won't stop chasing me.
need further instruction.
Krudler
in reply to GreenKnight23 • • •Actually you've gone far enough to baffle the system.
I would say have fun frolicking with the rabbits?
chunes
in reply to bignose • • •nutsack
in reply to chunes • • •Evotech
in reply to nutsack • • •nutsack
in reply to bignose • • •Krudler
in reply to nutsack • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to bignose • • •panda_abyss
in reply to bignose • • •You know, this, and the using wifi to see through walls stuff to me just immediately seemed to fall into "don't research this, it can only be used for evil".
I don't get why we bother studying these types of things.
Phoenixz
in reply to panda_abyss • • •We study it because EVERYTHING can be used for good or evil.
If we'd stopped researching anything that could be used for evil we'd never have gotten into the stone age
jaemo
in reply to Phoenixz • • •Sundiata
in reply to bignose • • •And this here folks is the true ending.
No one there is going to stop it as always.
Congratulations! You are now fully fucked!
There is the draft dodger, he is located in building #52556 in this city, info updated 125 milliseconds ago. He left his phone at his house 5 states away, go get him.
Hikermick
in reply to bignose • • •2910000
in reply to Hikermick • • •🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮
in reply to Hikermick • • •axEl7fB5
in reply to bignose • • •dtrain
in reply to axEl7fB5 • • •Doesn’t help.
HertzDentalBar
in reply to bignose • • •