Addio al malware! Nel 2025 i criminal hacker entrano con account legittimi per restare invisibili
Un report di FortiGuard relativo alla prima metà del 2025 mostra che gli aggressori motivati economicamente stanno rinunciando sempre più a exploit e malware sofisticati. Invece di implementare strumenti utilizzano account validi e strumenti di accesso remoto legittimi per penetrare nelle reti aziendali senza essere rilevati.
Questo approccio si è dimostrato non solo più semplice ed economico, ma anche significativamente più efficace: gli attacchi che utilizzano password rubate sfuggono sempre più spesso al rilevamento.
Gli esperti riferiscono che nei primi sei mesi dell’anno hanno indagato su decine di incidenti in diversi settori, dalla produzione alla finanza e alle telecomunicazioni. L’analisi di questi casi ha rivelato uno schema ricorrente: gli aggressori ottengono l’accesso utilizzando credenziali rubate o acquistate , si connettono tramite VPN e quindi si muovono nella rete utilizzando strumenti di amministrazione remota come AnyDesk, Atera, Splashtop e ScreenConnect.
Questa strategia consente loro di mascherare la loro attività come attività di amministratore di sistema ed evitare sospetti. FortiGuard conferma questi risultati nello stesso periodo: le tendenze relative alle perdite di password documentate nei documenti open source corrispondono a quelle identificate durante le indagini interne. In sostanza, gli aggressori non devono “hackerare” i sistemi nel senso tradizionale del termine: accedono semplicemente utilizzando le credenziali di accesso di qualcun altro, spesso ottenute tramite phishing o infostealervenduti su piattaforme clandestine.
In un attacco analizzato, gli aggressori hanno utilizzato credenziali valide per connettersi a una VPN aziendale senza autenticazione a più fattori , quindi hanno estratto le password dell’hypervisor salvate dal browser dell’utente compromesso e hanno crittografato le macchine virtuali. In un altro caso, un operatore ha ottenuto l’accesso tramite un account di amministratore di dominio rubato e ha installato in massa AnyDesk sull’intera rete utilizzando RDP e criteri di gruppo, consentendogli di spostarsi tra i sistemi e di rimanere inosservato per periodi di tempo più lunghi. Ci sono stati anche casi in cui gli aggressori hanno sfruttato una vecchia vulnerabilità in un server esterno, implementato diversi strumenti di gestione remota e creato account di servizio fittizi per spostare e poi rubare documenti di nascosto.
L’analisi ha dimostrato che il furto di password rimane una delle strategie più economiche e accessibili. Il costo dell’accesso dipende direttamente dalle dimensioni e dall’area geografica dell’azienda: per le organizzazioni con oltre un miliardo di dollari di fatturato nei paesi sviluppati, può raggiungere i 20.000 dollari, mentre per le aziende più piccole nelle regioni in via di sviluppo, si aggira sulle centinaia di dollari. Le massicce campagne di infostealing forniscono un flusso costante di dati aggiornati e la bassa barriera all’ingresso rende tali attacchi appetibili anche per gruppi meno addestrati.
Il vantaggio principale di questo schema è la furtività. Il comportamento degli aggressori è indistinguibile da quello dei dipendenti legittimi, soprattutto se si connettono durante il normale orario di lavoro e agli stessi sistemi.
Gli strumenti di sicurezza focalizzati sulla scansione di file dannosi e processi sospetti spesso non sono in grado di rilevare anomalie quando l’attacco si limita all’accesso di routine e alla navigazione in rete. Inoltre, quando si rubano manualmente dati tramite interfacce RDP o funzionalità RMM integrate, è difficile risalire ai file trasferiti, poiché tali azioni non lasciano artefatti di rete evidenti.
Secondo le osservazioni di FortiGuard, gli aggressori coinvolti in tali campagne continuano a utilizzare attivamente Mimikatz e le sue varianti per estrarre le password dalla memoria, e continuano a utilizzare l’exploit Zerologon per l’escalation dei privilegi. A volte, utilizzano anche manualmente utility come GMER, rinominate “strumenti di sistema”, per nascondere la propria presenza.
FortiGuard sottolinea che la protezione da tali minacce richiede un ripensamento degli approcci. Affidarsi esclusivamente ai tradizionali sistemi EDR che analizzano il codice dannoso non garantisce più una sicurezza affidabile. Una strategia basata sugli account e sul comportamento degli utenti sta diventando più efficace.
Le aziende devono creare i propri profili di attività normale e rispondere tempestivamente alle deviazioni, ad esempio accessi da posizioni geografiche insolite, connessioni simultanee a più server o attività al di fuori dell’orario di lavoro.
Si raccomanda particolare attenzione all’autenticazione a più fattori, non solo per il perimetro esterno, ma anche all’interno della rete. Anche se un aggressore ottiene una password, richiedere un’autenticazione aggiuntiva ne rallenterà i progressi e creerà maggiori possibilità di essere individuato. È inoltre importante limitare i privilegi di amministratore, impedire l’uso di account privilegiati tramite VPN e monitorarne gli spostamenti all’interno dell’infrastruttura.
FortiGuard consiglia alle organizzazioni di controllare rigorosamente l’uso di strumenti di amministrazione remota. Se tali programmi non sono necessari per motivi aziendali, è opportuno bloccarli e monitorare eventuali nuove installazioni o connessioni di rete ad essi associate. Inoltre, si consiglia di disabilitare SSH, RDP e WinRM su tutti i sistemi in cui non sono necessari e di configurare avvisi per la riattivazione di questi servizi. Secondo gli analisti, tali misure possono rilevare anche tentativi nascosti di spostamento laterale all’interno della rete.
L'articolo Addio al malware! Nel 2025 i criminal hacker entrano con account legittimi per restare invisibili proviene da Red Hot Cyber.
#KlimaKatastrophe
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Fachleute fordern: Deutschland soll Küstenregionen an Nord- und Ostsee aufgeben
Nord- und Ostsee sind beliebte Urlaubsziele. Geht es nach der Forderung zweier Forschungsgesellschaften sollen zahlreiche Gebiete jedoch aufgegeben werden.www.fr.de
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Discord conferma attacco hacker: informazioni sensibili a rischio
Un fornitore di servizi clienti di terze parti è stato compromesso dagli hacker, che hanno avuto accesso a informazioni parziali sui pagamenti e a dati di identificazione personale relativi ad alcuni utenti di Discord. L’attacco, avvenuto il 20 settembre, ha interessato un numero limitato di utenti che avevano avuto contatti con l’assistenza clienti di Discord e/o con i team Trust and Safety.
La società di messaggistica, nella notifica inviata agli utenti coinvolti, precisa che il 20 settembre si è verificato l’attacco e che “un soggetto non autorizzato ha acquisito un accesso ristretto ad un sistema di supporto clienti di terza parte usato da Discord”.
Originariamente concepito come mezzo di comunicazione per appassionati di videogiochi, che costituiscono più del 90% degli utenti iscritti, Discord si è trasformato in una piattaforma versatile accogliente varie comunità, offrendo la possibilità di scambiare messaggi tramite testo, intrattenere conversazioni attraverso chat vocali e effettuare videochiamate.
Venerdì, Discord ha reso pubblico l’incidente, affermando di aver preso provvedimenti immediati per isolare il fornitore di supporto dal suo sistema di ticketing e di aver avviato un’indagine. “Ciò include la revoca dell’accesso del fornitore di assistenza clienti al nostro sistema di ticketing, l’avvio di un’indagine interna, l’assunzione di una società leader di informatica forense per supportare i nostri sforzi di indagine e bonifica e il coinvolgimento delle forze dell’ordine”.
L’attacco pare avere una natura finanziaria, visto che gli hacker hanno richiesto a Discord un pagamento per non divulgare le informazioni trafugate. Secondo le statistiche della piattaforma, più di 200 milioni di persone utilizzano Discord ogni mese.
Le informazioni trapelate comprendono dati personali identificativi, quali nomi effettivi e nomi utente, indirizzi e-mail e ulteriori informazioni di contatto fornite all’équipe di supporto. Il servizio di comunicazione sociale ha reso noto che sono stati violati anche indirizzi IP, messaggi e allegati scambiati con gli agenti del servizio clienti. Gli hacker hanno avuto accesso anche alle foto dei documenti di identità rilasciati dal governo (patente di guida, passaporto) di un numero limitato di utenti.
Ad oggi, resta incerto il numero di utenti Discord coinvolti e non è stato divulgato il nome del fornitore esterno o del vettore di accesso. E’ importante sottolineare che numerose aziende hanno subito violazioni delle loro istanze Salesforce in seguito all’intrusione del gruppo di estorsione ShinyHunters, i quali hanno sfruttato token OAuth rubati da Salesloft e Drift per ottenere l’accesso.
L'articolo Discord conferma attacco hacker: informazioni sensibili a rischio proviene da il blog della sicurezza informatica.
Bubble's gonna burst!
OpenAI generated US$4.3 billion in revenue in the first half of 2025, according to financial disclosures to shareholders.
The artificial intelligence firm reported a net loss of US$13.5 billion during the same period, with more than half attributed to the remeasurement of convertible interest rights.
Research and development expenses were its largest cost, totaling US$6.7 billion in the first half.
(OpenAI current valuation: $500Bn.)
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Early NVIDIA was a lot better. They identified that you could make a graphics accelerator for 10% of the cost of the ones in high-end graphics workstations (which cost tens of thousands of dollars) with maybe half the performance and sell it to at least a thousand more people. They were the first to do hardware-accelerated geometry transforms and lighting. They were the first to make parts, then more parts, of the graphics pipeline programmable shaders instead of fixed-function units.
They rode (and were some of the major drivers of) the wave of 3D acceleration becoming mainstream. A computer sold in 2000 often had a dumb frame buffer and might have had a 2D accelerator (though often didn’t because CPUs were getting to be fast enough that these rarely helped). By 2005, even laptops had 3D accelerators. NVIDIA was in a market that grew from a tiny niche to the 200M units per year. The NVIDIA stock price quadrupled between 1999 and 2005.
The problem with that kind of staggering growth is that investors expect it to continue. But once you’ve saturated the market, how do you keep growing? You need new markets.
They’ve made mobile chips, but that’s a market with a lot of established players. They’ve made server chips, and they bought a SmartNIC vendor and so were in a good position to displace AMD as the cloud SoC vendor of choice. Unfortunately, best case, that would have doubled their profits. The market demands more.
As far as I can tell, their current stock price is assuming so much growth that it assumes everyone in the world will own at least three NVIDIA high-margin GPUs in a few years. It’s well past the point where the market is behaving rationally and deep into greater-idiot syndrome.
@david_chisnall @oddhack @laird You know about Sutherland's wheel of reincarnation in graphics, yes? Circa 1990 I worked at one of NVIDIA's ill-fated predecessors—Real World Graphics, used gangs of cheap RISC processors in place of custom silicon to do "cheap" GPU stuff for PCs. The mass market gamer PC graphics cards only matched their performance about a decade later.
Alas, they were targeting industrial/workstation niches and very under-capitalized.
Dragon is the Latest, and Final, Craft to Reboost ISS
The International Space Station has been in orbit around the Earth, at least in some form, since November of 1998 — but not without help. In the vacuum of space, an object in orbit can generally be counted on to remain zipping around more or less forever, but the Station is low enough to experience a bit of atmospheric drag. It isn’t much, but it saps enough velocity from the Station that without regular “reboosts” to speed it back up , the orbiting complex would eventually come crashing down.
Naturally, the United States and Russia were aware of this when they set out to assemble the Station. That’s why early core modules such as Zarya and Zvezda came equipped with thrusters that could be used to not only rotate the complex about all axes, but accelerate it to counteract the impact of drag. Eventually the thrusters on Zarya were disabled, and its propellant tanks were plumbed into Zvezda’s fuel system to provide additional capacity.
Visiting spacecraft attached to the Russian side of the ISS can transfer propellant into these combined tanks, and they’ve been topped off regularly over the years. In fact, the NASA paper A Review of In-Space Propellant Transfer Capabilities and Challenges for Missions Involving Propellant Resupply, notes this as one of the most significant examples of practical propellant transfer between orbital vehicles, with more than 40,000 kgs of propellants pumped into the ISS as of 2019.
But while the thrusters on Zvezda are still available for use, it turns out there’s an easier way to accelerate the Station; visiting spacecraft can literally push the orbital complex with their own maneuvering thrusters. Of course this is somewhat easier said than done, and not all vehicles have been able to accomplish the feat, but over the decades several craft have taken on the burden of lifting the ISS into a higher orbit.
Earlier this month, a specially modified SpaceX Cargo Dragon became the newest addition to the list of spacecraft that can perform a reboost. The craft will boost the Station several times over the rest of the year, which will provide valuable data for when it comes time to reverse the process and de-orbit the ISS in the future.
Reboosting the Russian Way
By far the easiest way for a visiting spacecraft to reboost the ISS is to dock with the rear of the Zvezda module. This not only places the docked spacecraft at what would be considered the “rear” of the Station given its normal flight orientation, but puts the craft as close as possible to the Station’s own thrusters. This makes it relatively easy to compute the necessary parameters for the thruster burn.
Historically, reboosts from this position have been performed by the Russian Progress spacecraft. Introduced in 1978, Progress is essentially an uncrewed version of the Soyuz spacecraft, and like most of Russia’s space hardware, has received various upgrades and changes over the decades. Progress vehicles are designed specifically for serving long-duration space stations, and were used to bring food, water, propellants, and cargo to the Salyut and Mir stations long before the ISS was even on the drawing board.
Reboosts could also be performed by the Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV). Built by the European Space Agency (ESA), the ATV was essentially the European counterpart to Progress, and flew similar resupply missions. The ATV had considerably greater cargo capacity, with the ability to bring approximately 7,500 kg of materials to the ISS compared to 2,400 kg for Progress.
Only five ATVs were flown, from 2008 to 2014. There were several proposals to build more ATVs, including modified versions that could potentially even carry crew. None of these versions ever materialized, although it should be noted that the design of the Orion spacecraft’s Service Module is based on the ATV.
American Muscle
Reboosting the ISS from the American side of the Station is possible, but involves a bit more work. For one thing, the entire Station needs to flip over, as the complex’s normal orientation would have the American docking ports facing fowards. Of course, there’s really no such thing as up or down in space, so this maneuver doesn’t impact the astronauts’ work. There are however various experiments and devices aboard the Station that are designed to point down towards Earth, so this reorientation can still be disruptive.
As described in the “AUTO REBOOST” section of the STS-129 Orbit Operations Checklist, the Shuttle’s computer would actually be given control of the maneuvering systems of the ISS so the entire linked structure can be rotated into the correct position. A diagram in the Checklist even shows the approximate angle the vehicle’s should be at for the Shuttle’s maneuvering thrusters to line up properly.
With the retirement of the Space Shuttle in 2011, maintaining the Station’s orbit became the sole domain of the Russians until 2018, when the Cygnus became the first commercial spacecraft to perform a reboost. The cargo spacecraft had a swiveling engine which helped get the direction of thrust aligned, but the Station did still need to rotate to get into the proper position.
After performing a second reboost in 2022, the Cygnus spacecraft was retired. It’s replacement, the upgraded Cygnus XL — is currently scheduled to launch its first mission to the ISS no earlier than September 14th.
Preparing for the Final Push
That brings us to the present day, and the Cargo Dragon. SpaceX had never designed the spacecraft to perform a reboost, and indeed, it would at first seem uniquely unsuited for the task as its “Draco” maneuvering thrusters are actually located on the front and sides of the capsule. When docked, the primary thrusters used for raising and lowering the Dragon’s own orbit are essentially pressed up against the structure of the ISS, and obviously can’t be activated.
To make reboosting with the Dragon possible, SpaceX added additional propellant tanks and a pair of rear-firing Draco thrusters within the spacecraft’s un-pressurized “trunk” module. This hollow structure is usually empty, but occasionally will hold large or bulky cargo that can’t fit inside the spacecraft itself. It’s also occasionally been used to deliver components destined to be mounted to the outside of the ISS, such as the for the outside of the ISS, such as the International Docking Adapter (IDA) and the roll-out solar panels.
While the ability to have the Dragon raise the orbit of the International Space Station obviously has value to NASA, the implications of this experiment go a bit farther.
SpaceX has already been awarded the contract to develop and operate the “Deorbit Vehicle” which will ultimately be used to slow down the ISS and put it on a targeted reentry trajectory sometime after 2030. Now that the company has demonstrated the ability to add additional thrusters and propellant to a standard Dragon spacecraft via a module installed in the trunk, it’s likely that the Deorbit Vehicle will take a similar form.
So while the development of this new capability is exciting from an operational standpoint, especially given deteriorating relations with Russia, it’s also a reminder that the orbiting laboratory is entering its final days.
Reading The Chip In Your Passport
For over a decade, most passports have contained an NFC chip that holds a set of electronically readable data about the document and its holder. This has resulted in a much quicker passage through some borders as automatic barriers can replace human officials, but at the same time, it adds an opaque layer to the process. Just what data is on your passport, and can you read it for yourself? [Terence Eden] wanted to find out.
The write-up explains what’s on the passport and how to access it. Surprisingly, it’s a straightforward process, unlike, for example, the NFC on a bank card. Security against drive-by scanning is provided by the key being printed on the passport, requiring the passport to be physically opened.
He notes that it’s not impossible to brute force this key, though doing so reveals little that’s not printed on the document. The write-up reveals a piece of general-purpose technical knowledge we should all know. However, there’s a question we’re left with that it doesn’t answer. If we can read the data on a passport chip, could a passport forger thus create a counterfeit one? If any readers are in the know, we’d be interested to hear more in the comments. If you are into NFC hacking, maybe you need a handy multitool.
Header: [Tony Webster], CC BY-SA 4.0.
Truffa del finto servizio assistenza: così hanno bucato i siti di Netflix, Microsoft e altri
@Informatica (Italy e non Italy 😁)
I criminali informatici hanno messo appunto un’insidiosa tecnica di attacco che sfrutta le inserzioni sponsorizzate tra i risultati di ricerca per condurre le ignare vittime su vere pagine web di assistenza online i
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Ma quindi davvero non serve tutta quella plastica?
Vi sarà sicuramente capitato di comprare qualche piccolo oggetto in un negozio Mediaworld, una scheda SD, una chiavetta USB, ecc.
Avete notato quanta plastica ha intorno? Tra l'altro anche una plastica estremamente resistente e difficile da aprire.
La settimana scorsa la porta USB del mio #Fairphone ha cominciato a dare problemi quindi sono andato sul sito e ne ho comprata una nuova (25 €).
È arrivata qualche giorno fa in una ragionevole confezione in cartoncino certificato FSC (Forest Stewardship Council), con stampa in inchiostro di soia (chissà, magari con un filino di olio sopra è pure saporita 😁) e all'interno di una piccola bustina.
Ma quindi si possono vendere cose anche senza inscatolarle in grossi contenitori di plastica antiproiettile?
Beh... se te ne importa qualcosa dell'ambiente evidentemente sì.
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Hackaday Links: June 22, 2025
Hold onto your hats, everyone — there’s stunning news afoot. It’s hard to believe, but it looks like over-reliance on chatbots to do your homework can turn your brain into pudding. At least that seems to be the conclusion of a preprint paper out of the MIT Media Lab, which looked at 54 adults between the ages of 18 and 39, who were tasked with writing a series of essays. They divided participants into three groups — one that used ChatGPT to help write the essays, one that was limited to using only Google search, and one that had to do everything the old-fashioned way. They recorded the brain activity of writers using EEG, in order to get an idea of brain engagement with the task. The brain-only group had the greatest engagement, which stayed consistently high throughout the series, while the ChatGPT group had the least. More alarmingly, the engagement for the chatbot group went down even further with each essay written. The ChatGPT group produced essays that were very similar between writers and were judged “soulless” by two English teachers. Go figure.
The most interesting finding, though, was when 18 participants from the chatbot and brain-only groups were asked to rewrite one of their earlier essays, with the added twist that the chatbot group had to do it all by themselves, while the brainiacs got to use ChatGPT. The EEGs showed that the first group struggled with the task, presumably because they failed to form any deep memory of their previous work thanks to over-reliance on ChatGPT. The brain-only folks, however, did well at the task and showed signs of activity across all EEG bands. That fits well with our experience with chatbots, which we use to help retrieve specific facts and figures while writing articles, especially ones we know we’ve seen during our initial scan of the literature but can’t find later.
Does anyone remember Elektro? We sure do, although not from personal experience, since the seven-foot-tall automaton built by Westinghouse for the World’s Fair in New York City in 1939 significantly predates our appearance on the planet. But still, the golden-skinned robot that made its living by walking around, smoking, and cracking wise at the audience thanks to a 78-rpm record player in its capacious chest, really made an impression, enough that it toured the country for the better part of 30 years and made the unforgettable Sex Kittens Go to College in 1960 before fading into obscurity. At some point, the one-of-a-kind robot was rescued from a scrap heap and restored to its former glory, and now resides in the North Central Ohio Industrial Museum in Mansfield, very close to the Westinghouse facility that built it. If you need an excuse to visit North Central Ohio, you could do worse than a visit to see Elektro.
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It was with some alarm that we learned this week from Al Williams that mtrek.com 1701 appeared to be down. For those not in the know, mtrek is a Telnet space combat game inspired by the Star Trek franchise, which explains why Al was in such a tizzy about not being able to connect; huge Trek nerd, our Al. Anyway, it appears Al’s worst fears were unfounded, as we were able to connect to mtrek just fine. But in the process of doing so, we stumbled across this collection of Telnet games and demos that’s worth checking out. The mtrek, of course, as well as Telnet versions of chess and backgammon, and an interactive world map that always blows our mind. The site also lists the Telnet GOAT, the Star Wars Asciimation; sadly, that one does seem to be down, at least for us. Sure, you can see it in a web browser, but it’s not the same as watching it in a terminal over Telnet, is it?
And finally, if you’ve got 90 minutes or so to spare, you could do worse than to spend it with our friend Hash as he reverse engineers an automotive ECU. We have to admit that we haven’t indulged yet — it’s on our playlist for this weekend, because we know how to party. But from what Hash tells us, this is the tortured tale of a job that took far, far longer to complete than expected. We have to admit that while we’ll gladly undertake almost any mechanical repair on most vehicles, automotive ECUs and other electronic modules are almost a bridge too far for us, at least in terms of cracking them open to make even simple repairs. Getting access to them for firmware extraction and parameter fiddling sounds like a lot of fun, and we’re looking forward to hearing what Hash has to say about the subject.
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@superviviansunshine @echedellelr @jimniels
So much on target that l caught a block from my callout. Some people hate mirrors.
@superviviansunshine @echedellelr @angelastella @jimniels That dude actually blocked you? What a loser move.
(Maybe I’ll also earn a block from him. 😈)
@jimniels
can we bring back the mega block??
l"being a human" and "having humanity" are the exact same thing, their only NOT the exact same thing -- if you dehumanize people -- the subtext is dehumanization its "some people arent really human"
also making it shit like this is fucking ableist as fuck towards autistics and other ND people,
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
in reply to Hart • • •Gid
in reply to Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC • • •Funfact. Die Überschwemmung der Küstenregionen ist jetzt schon bis 2100 gesetzt, selbst wenn wir (optimistisch) die Temperatur auf 2° begrenzen.
@hart
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
Unknown parent • • •Verzicht ist noch viel zu kurz gegriffen. Unsere gesamte Art, über uns, unsere Rolle auf diesem Planeten und die Welt an sich zu denken, ist komplett verkehrt und muß enden. Unsere Zivilisation ist schon seit vielen Jahrhunderten auf dem komplett falschen Kurs und ist nicht mehr zu retten; diese Zivilisation _wird_ auf die eine oder andere Art enden. Die einzige Möglichkeit, einen Zivilisationskollaps zu vermeiden wäre gewesen, die gegenkulturelle Alternativstrukturen ab den 1970ern zu einer komplett neuen, radikal nachhaltigen Zivilisation aufzubauen und die bestehende Zivilisation zu demontieren und auf den Schrotthaufen der Geschichte zu werfen. Die meisten Menschen machen sich überhaupt keine Vorstellungen davon, wie tief die Unnachhaltigkeit in der gesamten modernen Kultur steckt, und wie sehr völlig falsches Denken über uns Menschen und den lebendigen Planeten, dessen Teil wir sind, verankert ist.
Es gab nie irgendeine Möglichkeit, diese Zivilisation zu retten, diese Kultur zu bewahren, weil die Zivilisation schon seit Jahrhunderten im Arsch ist und auf ihren Untergang zurollt. Das Industriezeitalter hat das nur beschleunigt, nicht verursacht. Der ganze Scheiß fängt schon an, wo Menschen sich einbilden, die Welt sei für sie geschaffen worden, und sie seien die wichtigste Spezies auf dem Planeten, die Chefs der Erde. Was uns hätte vor dem Kollaps bewahren können, wäre eine ökosozialistische Weltrevolution gewesen, welche radikal neue Gesellschaften und Kulturen anstelle der alten gesetzt hätte, aber die hätte spätestens um die Jahrtausendwende stattfinden müssen.
Mit Reformen war da nie etwas zu machen, dafür sitzt das Problem zu tief.
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
Unknown parent • • •Eigentum ist meiner Ansicht nach generell ein Problem. Und natürlich die Tatsache, daß kaum noch jemand imstande ist, Eigentum und Besitz mental voneinander zu trennen. Besitz ist natürlich und offensichtlich, entweder man besitzt etwas oder nicht. Da braucht es überhaupt keinen Staat. Eigentum ist erst im Verlaufe der Jungsteinzeit entstanden, zusammen mit den ersten Staaten.
Ich als Anarchist halte natürlich weder Staaten noch Eigentum für gute Sachen, sondern für höchst ärgerlich. Wenn man sich einmal Kulturen anguckt, die es geschafft haben, über viele Jahrtausende ökologisch nachhaltig zu leben und zu wirtschaften, dann gab es bei denen keine komplexen staatlichen Strukturen und keine Superreichen, keine großen bedeutenden Zivilisationen, nichts, worüber man irgendwelche Geschichtsbücher schreiben könnte, sondern nur egalitäre Gesellschaften ohne große Hierarchien, und es wurde kein großartiger Handel betrieben, sondern einfach alles zusammengetragen und nach Bedarf verteilt. Nichts mit Befehl und Gehorsam, sondern Leute haben sich zusammengesetzt und gemeinsam besprochen, was zu tun ist.
Dumm nur, daß solche Kulturen heute nur noch in ganz abgelegenen Gebieten existieren, die für den Kolonialismus zu uninteressant waren, anderswo wurden sie von den neuen Herren plattgemacht.
Schlüssellochkind 👁️
in reply to Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC • • •@LordCaramac
Hier hieß es "entweder oder"..
mastodon.social/@marquito/1153…
🤷♂️
Marquito
2025-10-04 12:43:21
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
in reply to Schlüssellochkind 👁️ • • •@stubenhocker Wenn der Faschismus (wie gerade bereits schon absehbar) in den nächsten paar Jahren alle Anstrengungen der letzten Jahrzehnte, die Ökologie ein klein wenig langsamer kaputtzumachen, komplett zunichtemacht und das größte Umweltzerstörungsprogramm seit den chinesischen und sowjetischen Irrsinnsprojekten auflegt, dann wird das für die nächsten zigtausend Jahre nichts mehr mit Zivilisation, dann ist die Biosphäre für Jahrzehntausende nicht in der Lage, Milliarden von Menschen zu tragen, sondern bestenfalls Zigmillionen. Nirgendwo wird es stabil genug sein, um langfristig dort zu siedeln, also wird die Restmenschheit aus nomadischen Stämmen von zusammengewürfelten Kollapsüberlebenden bestehen. Daran können wir vermutlich nicht mehr viel drehen. Die Faschisten müssen mit allen Mitteln beseitigt werden, so schnell es geht, denn es geht jetzt nur noch ums nackte Überleben, es geht darum, ob es auf diesem Planeten überhaupt noch eine ökologische Nische für große Affen wie uns gibt oder nicht, und darum, wie schnell sie zusammenschrumpft, und davon wiederum hängt es ab, wieviele Menschen noch ein einigermaßen langes Leben haben werden und wieviele im Zuge des Kollaps bei der einen oder anderen Katastrophe, Seuche oder Hungersnot draufgehen.
Nach dem Kollaps werden Konzepte wie Geld oder Eigentum nicht mehr existieren, weil sie eine Stabilität voraussetzen, die nicht mehr gegeben sein wird. Eine Weile werden vielleicht hier und dort Mad-Max-Krieger versuchen, einem postapokalyptischen Raubrittertum zu frönen, aber es wird sehr schnell nicht mehr hinreichend viele seßhafte Menschen geben, die man ausplündern kann; mit der Klimastabilität des Holozän verschwindet auch die Landwirtschaft, und einige wenige schaffen es, zu Jägern und Sammlern zu werden, während der Rest verhungert. Quasi Altsteinzeit mit Eisenzeit-Technologie, unser Schrott wird umgeschmiedet zu Werkzeugen und Waffen aus Recycling-Stahl für die Stämme, die durch die ökologisch verarmten Landschaften ziehen und dabei überall Obstgehölze anpflanzen, wo sie langwandern, um bei späteren Wanderzügen Beeren sammeln zu können.
Na ja, mal sehen. Wir werden irgendwann erleben, wie es ist, wenn man plötzlich keine Satelliten mehr hat, denn früher oder später wird uns einfach irgendeine so massive Eruption von der Sonne voll in die Fresse treffen, daß die Elektronik im All einfach komplett geröstet wird. Und wenn Musk weiter solche Unmengen von Billigschrottsatelliten in den LEO haut, dann haben wir da bald das Kessler-Syndrom, da stecken wir dann erst einmal Jahrzehnte auf der Erde fest, bis es wieder sichere Startfenster gibt, wo man Raketen zwischen den Trümmerteilen durchschießen kann. Bis dahin ist die Raumfahrtindustrie doch komplett weg. Mit der Zusammenstreichung der NASA dürfte schon klar sein, daß das Ende der westlichen Raumfahrt bald kommen wird; ich bin mal gespannt, wie lange Indien und China durchhalten. Mit dem Fortschreiten des sogenannten Fortschrittes wurde unsere gesamte Zivilisation immer komplexer und fragiler, nicht viel davon wird das Chaos des 21. Jahrhunderts überstehen, und über die kommenden Jahrhunderte und Jahrtausende wird fast alles, was dann noch übrig ist, wegbröseln. Und unser Maschinenzeitalter wird der Zukunft nicht viel hinterlassen außer Schrott. Unsere digitalen Datenspeicher sind wertlos, alles, was nicht menschenlesbar ist, wird niemandem mehr nützen. Papier wird alt und spröde und zerbröselt irgendwann. Nomadische Stämme werden nicht viele Schriftrollen mit sich tragen, das wird irgendeine heilige Schrift sein, eine Stammeschronik und ein Lehrtext oder zwei, ansonsten wird sehr viel Wissen einfach verschwinden. Wenn wir es hinbekommen, daß Pferde und/oder Esel nicht aussterben, dann sieht die Zukunft besser aus, dann kann man mit Wagen durch die Lande ziehen, die schon richtige mobile Häuschen sind, aber da müssen wir schon richtig Glück haben.
Mal sehen, ob ich lange genug lebe, um zu sehen, wie Menschen um mich herum anfangen zu verstehen, daß wir aufrechtgehenden Nacktaffen keine höherstehenden Wesen sind, sondern genausolche Tiere wie alle anderen, und daß eine Welt, in der Affen aussterben, eben eine ist, in der _wir_ aussterben, weil wir Affen sind. Falls unsere Spezies nicht ausstirbt, werden wir hinterher mit Sicherheit für Zigtausend Jahre überstehen müssen, bevor die Biosphäre wieder genug von uns trägt für eine Zivilisation.
Schlüssellochkind 👁️
in reply to Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC • • •@hart
Schlüssellochkind 👁️
in reply to Schlüssellochkind 👁️ • • •Und zu dem verlorenen Wissen in deinem Drehbuch mach ich mir dann wenig Sorgen. Die Datenspeicher werden von den LLMs in den verbleibenden Jahren sowas von zugeschwurbelt sein und die Fakten verschwindend gering, daß ein lesen wohl mehr Nachteile als Nutzen hätte. 🙃
Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
in reply to Schlüssellochkind 👁️ • • •Die Küsten werden absaufen, das hält keiner mehr auf; die Frage ist nur, wieviel Eis abschmilzt und wie schnell, davon hängt halt ab, wie schnell der Meeresspiegel steigt. Weite Landstriche in den Tropen und Subtropen werden absolut tödliche Hitzewellen abbekommen, die niemand ohne irgendeine Art von Kühlung überlebt, da werden Hunderte von Millionen sterben, und dann hat die Welt eine Milliarde Klimamigranten. Langfristig verliert der Begriff "Migration" seine Besonderheit, weil Seßhaftigkeit einfach verschwindet und alle Menschen zu Nomaden werden, weil kein Ort mehr sicher dauerhaft bewohnbar ist.
Diese Zivilisation hat eine Krisensituation geschaffen, aus der sie nicht wieder herauskommt. Die einzige Chance ist, in den Rissen der zerbröselnden alten Zivilisation mit den Wurzeln einer neuen anzufangen, aber wahrscheinlich wird großmaßstäbliche Zivilisation für eine lange Zeit komplett verlorengehen, nur in einzelnen Gegenden, wo das zukünftige regionale Klima zufällig einigermaßen OK wird, könnte sich vielleicht ganz vereinzelt mal eine Stadt halten, wo es noch wirkliche Zivilisation gibt, ansonsten nur Dörfer, die nur in bestimmten Jahreszeiten überhaupt bewohnt sind, weil die Leute ansonsten durch die Gegend ziehen, jagen, fischen, sammeln, Nachbarstämme besuchen.
Falls wir überleben. Wenn wir jetzt alle Teilkrisen der Polykrisis, Treibhausgase, synthetische Schadstoffe, Habitatzerstörung, Überdüngung der Ackerböden, die ganze Batterie der ökologischen Zerstörung, weiter eskalieren, dann sieht es für unsere Überlebenschancen als Spezies sehr schlecht aus. Ein solches massives Aussterbeereignis wie das, an dessen Anfang wir gerade stehen, kann leicht an den Punkt kommen, wo es über 90% aller Arten dahinrafft, und Homo sapiens wird da nicht zu den Überlebenden gehören, wir sind zu groß und zu schwer, Tiere unserer Größe überleben so einen Scheiß einfach nicht, das kann man in den Fossilien ganz klar sehen. Ob es uns gefällt oder nicht, wir sind Affen, dieser Planet war lange Zeit sehr affenfreundlich, aber wenn er es nicht mehr ist, sterben wir aus. Aber vielleicht buddeln in 23 Millionen Jahren Wissenschaftler der Lemming-Zivilisation fossile Überreste menschlicher Artefakte aus und lernen etwas aus unserem Untergang.
Schlüssellochkind 👁️
in reply to Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC • • •Nach meiner Theorie geht das (aus)Sterben nicht schlagartig, und je mehr Millionen von uns nach und nach weg sind, desto weniger "heizen" die restlichen nach. Ist halt die Frage wie viele Kipppunkte dann noch nicht durch sind..
Nebenbei haben wir ja evtl. noch nen großen Krieg der als Katslysator hilft.. 🙃
Schlüssellochkind 👁️
Unknown parent • • •Standortoffene Behausungen werden sich wohl als Evolutionsvorteil etablieren, seh ich auch so..
@hart @LordCaramac
flo
in reply to Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC • • •"Wenn wir es hinbekommen, daß Pferde und/oder Esel nicht aussterben, dann sieht die Zukunft besser aus, dann kann man mit Wagen durch die Lande ziehen, die schon richtige mobile Häuschen sind, aber da müssen wir schon richtig Glück haben."
Vielleicht sind diejenigen, die heute schon FahrradWohnwagen und -Wohnmobile austüfteln, Vorreiter (no pun intended) dieses neuen Nomadentums?