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Mappa geografica dellโEuropa Riguardo le ultime vicende accadute in questi giorni in Europa e altre parti del mondo, urge una breve riflessione ma รจ una riflessione nuda e cruda. 1) Il fatto โฆVincenzo Tartaglia Blog
As the U.S. turns its back, Europe is scrambling to step up.Nicholas Vinocur (POLITICO)
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Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are feeling the wrath of constituents as their phone lines light up with complaints, worries and confusion over Elon Musk's efforts to gut government programs and fire longtime civil servants.Tom Boggioni (Raw Story)
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After realizing that my servers were offline since the 25th of January 2025, I've been in contact with Oracle support in a multitude of ways trying to figure out why this happened and how we can recover both the account and data.
I wasn't told that my account was disabled. I didn't receive an E-Mail or anything. When logging in, I was simply told that my username or password was incorrect. After (successfully) resetting my password twice, I realized it wasn't about the password. Oracle had just deleted my account without any notice.
Both through calls and text, always with the same service request (SR) number, I contacted support. Initially, support told me that my account was flagged โInactiveโ and hence disabled. They also verified that they saw me login almost daily and that I never missed a payment or anything. Even if an account was inactive, that's never a reason to disable it, especially without any warning E-Mail or an E-Mail letting me know that my account was disabled in the first place.
This chat was the result of all of that, where the highest team I've yet been elevated to told me that there's nothing they can do about it, there's no reason they can tell me for why this happened, and there's no one else I could ask.
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Interestingly, two days before Oracle deleted my account and all servers associated with it, I publicly criticized Oracle's CEO in a viral post for promising dystopian AI surveillance technology to his investors.
mastodon.de/@ErikUden/11387936โฆ
What a weird coincidence.
Day three of Trump's term and the largest push for surveillance capitalism yet has been made: Project Stargate will be a $500.000.000.000 (500 billion USD) data center used for running a multitude of AIs with the purpose of spying on you.Larry Ellison, the world's second richest man and CEO of Oracle, one of the main partners of Stargate, said:
โCitizens will be on their best behavior, because we're constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on [...]. We're using A.I. to monitor the video.โ
โ Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle on how the company's A.I. systems will be used for in the future [Source: Business Insider]This is who is in power now. This is the vision they have.
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Oh. Teh. Lulz.
Edit: found the GDPR thread below.
Also, isn't GDPR applicable here? (I had also a account deleted with the reason of โwe can't tell youโ (and it happened while I was asking for help with the registration) and the help desk ignored my questions for data. But I had other problems and did not get very far.)
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Really, really weird โฆ
โWe cannot tell you why your account was deleted, because if we did we would admit that we censor everything that speaks against our boss.โ
"Coincidence".
Any US technology provider is suspect from now on. Larry Ellison kissed the Imperial ring.
Sorry about your misadventure.
interesting, looks like you hurt little Larry's feelings.
I didn't think he had emotions.
Yeah, Uncle Larry's like that - vindictive and petty.
One note, his title at Oracle changed in 2014. He's actually the Chief Technical Officer and Executive Chairman (whatever the hell that means.) Safra Catz is Oracle's CEO.
Huh.. Rather interesting indeed...
I am very curious how they will legally justify this.
Moving these servers, despite having no long term impact like data loss, will have some financial impact. Don't feel forced to, your vocal support about this issue was more than enough to turn my evening from a bad to a wonderful one, however if you have the financial resources I'd be happy about a little support:
mastodon.de/@ErikUden/11393140โฆ
Where will this money go to ;)? 
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This morning, on February 2nd 2025 at 06:58 (GMT+1) I've received an E-Mail by Oracle stating โYour Oracle Cloud account has been reactivated.โ
I couldn't believe my eyes and didn't really understand how to respond. At the point in time where I received this E-mail, my post regarding Oracle's mistreatment has already gathered thousands of shares and was also discussed heavily on Hacker News among other platforms.
My many pleas and requests from the past week didn't do anything. My GDPR request didn't do anything so far. But within a few hours of public complaints and so many people telling me to take this to court... I guess this was simply the easiest way.
I still don't fully understand the E-Mail I've gotten. It talks about an order about universal credits that occurred at 5:20 AM, where I've been cold asleep. When I login to Oracle Cloud, no such credits exist. Additionally, they don't show up when I look into the โCost and Usage Reportsโ under my account management. Even more interesting are the dozens of files showing an account and server activity, with the calculated cost of it all, for a time period where my account was supposedly irreversibly deleted.
I'll share more interesting findings soon. I am honestly just shocked about this development. I would've expected many things except for a 180.
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I wish my main and inspiring takeaway here would be that we can fight them and win.
However, I was in no control here. The fact this resonated with a lot of people causing an internet wide uproar was nice, but Oracle's legal team could've decided to not care.
Are they taking the wind out of our sails by reinstating my account? Is this their way of admitting and undoing an honest mistake? Would this have happened if I never complained publicly about it, or was my private GDPR request what did the magic here?
I cannot tell you. All I can say is that your account and all your data still exists on Oracle's servers even over a week after your account has been โirreversiblyโ wiped. Keep that in mind the next time support tells you there's nothing they can do.
โWe cannot provide more details or reactivate your account.โโThere is no way to recover your account.โ
โThere is no team to which to escalate this.โ
โYour Oracle Cloud account has been reactivated.โ
I also dislike the passiveness in that statement. You reactivated it. Doesn't matter if it was an automated system or a human, you did that. It wasn't magically reactivated by some third party, it was you.
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Fail on you if you buy your it services from a small, completely dubious company that has no idea what it's doing.
Oh, #Oracle is a company that has been on the market for almost 50 years and has a turnover of almost 53 billion?
And apparently has no idea what it does.
What I'm about to say is obviously just speculation, but if it was some terms of service I was violating, or their system goofing up and believing I was a free tier account and hence them stopping everything as they needed to make space for a paid service, wouldn't my server shut down first and my account be deleted second?
If there was some problematic material found to be stored on my server, or if I was illegally running a mail-server, TOR exit node, crypto miner, illegal streaming site, or something else that was violating the TOS, wouldn't the server be the first thing they irreversibly nuke?
The server was apparently constantly running, even when my account was terminated. Its IP address and any public access (ingress, egress rules) were removed or blocked.
The current uptime is 17 days. This makes everything all the more confusing...
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I would say selfhosting in your own environment is the only true alternative preventing you from this ๐
Just because they locked your account doesn't mean they don't want your money.
It's a US company. As long as they can come up with reasons to send you invoices, there is simply no need for customer service.
My prediction is that your account got hacked or compromised somehow, and some bad actors used it to run counter-ToS activity.
*Customer service* is just people reading scripts handling only common flows. The script says the account is "irreversibly" closed. The script is written that way, because actual bad actors will try to weedle their way back into being allowed.
Automatic server shut-down on account deactivation might be a "do later" task on some backlog task list.
Repeat after me: "...or you will leave me no choice but to pursue all available legal remedies." cc a legal team email or fax it to their legal department.
They do this stuff because nobody thinks "I just got fucked by someone providing a service to me, that's a breach of contract/law, I should sue them for not providing what I paid for an interfering with my ability to do business."
It doesn't necessarily change if Oracle's contract says "no-sue-ees!" torts.jotwell.com/just-kiddingโฆ
Edward Cheng, Ehud Guttel & Yuval Procaccia, Unenforceable Waivers, 76 Vand. L. Rev. __ (forthcoming, 2023), available at SSRN.Anthony Sebok (Torts)
oh also, oracle has/had a contract with the heritage foundation to build a loyalist database for project 2025.
we honestly should just boycott. what-his-face is also a nazi even though he was raised by a single jewish mother.
Sensitive content
Weird coincidence.
Guess the alpha version of the surveillance AI did not take the critique lying down?
le premier rรฉflexe des fascistes, c'est de faire le mรฉnage autour d'eux.
Vous critiquez ? Vous dรฉgagez...
Vous avez dรฉcrie une machine terrifiante de surveillance de masse comme mรชme les chinois vont รชtre jaloux...
Ensuite, ils lanceront la chasse au sorciรจres : dรฉmocrates, wokes, รฉtrangers, etc.
Nous avions peur du retour du bruits des bottes. Nous n'avions pas anticipรฉ que se serait celui des claviers qui serait terrifiant.
Oracle is very sensitive on the subject of their role in anti-democracy.
My Twitter account was suspended for commenting on an Oracle PR post.
They've been supporting #Project2025 for a while.
welcome to digital feudalism. you insulted the king and thus shall be punished.
aka Majestรคtsbeleidigung ๐
Funny that. I've called Ellison a *checks notes* Dumbass Fucktard a few times, and my account is still active.
Suppose I'll be quiet.
I decided long ago to switch all databases from Oracle to PostgreSQL.
It's free, it's (in my opinion) better all around. And you get better documentation (which is also public, so you can use google search on it).
Do you have some personal issue with Larry?
He is a head-case.
Progressive service restoration expected from Thursday.iTnews
Google did that to me about 3 years ago to an account more than a decade old.
So many things were lost that day that can never be recovered.
The only reason they gave was claiming that I broke their ToS, which seems unlikely given that I'm the kind of person who actually reads the fine print.
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Larry Ellison & Oracle and a fossil fuel funded fascist movement...
#Project2025 is funded by a #KochNetwork front, The Heritage Foundation.
sfchronicle.com/tech/article/pโฆ
@chbmeyer a post I recently made was reposted and only through a friend of mine seeing it I realized it had 3.8 million views on Reddit. To this day I'm being sent Instagram posts by other accounts reposting that daily through friends or because these accounts tag me.
It's easy (and even appreciated by me) when my posts leave this platform. I don't think I've angered anyone, I'm way too irrelevant. However, when arbitration is the norm, a small act like this can easily be pushed under the rug.
I guess the problem rather is that it may as well be true. Since we're given no explanation, or rather a refusal to explain what happened here by Oracle, we must come up with what sounds like a conspiracy.
Do I believe there's really a connection here? 99.9% sure there isn't. Is it possible for any AI to scan the internet for criticics and make their life harder? Sure is. Is it most likely Oracle's arbitrary practices? Yeah.
This could've happened to anyone, a critic, fan, or someone who's indifferent to Oracle. That's almost worse than it only happening to someone critical of their CEO.
@ilookloud I paid them money. I still do. I also won't make any efforts to stop them from taking my money (additionally, I currently can't even do that, since I can't login to my account as it was deleted, although I'm seeing a charge for the next month).
So... I don't know what this is supposed to mean. It seems as if my account was deleted, but my server wasn't. I'm still paying for the server, but I will never be allowed to create an account to access that server.
I had this happen but interestingly it was after I started paying them money for VM that I was previously running on their free tier.
I was stupidly building an app with someone else on a live server without any backups, but when it came time to make it live I needed to increase the resources and when I did it just *poof* disappears.
Oracle supports was absolutely clueless and useless.
My experience with Oracle left me with a clear playbook: that I will check regularly if they bought a service I use and terminate that one immediately if true.
I will never do any business with Oracle on my own free will, even if itโs for free.
This is not specific to Oracle alone.
This is specific to #cloud services and #closedsource lock-ins.
See also: karl-voit.at/cloud/
ho ho man, I would love to be the guy that got to "lament to inform" Larry Ellison that his fancy yacht sank... And that his data centers were on fire...
We don't need billionaires; they're a disease.
This royally sucks, but I'm glad you have backups.
Your experience demonstrates we cannot fully trust any public cloud. Few organizations (let alone individuals) have the legal might to take companies like Oracle, Amazon, and Microsoft to court over this sort of thing.
@ilookloud call the credit card issuer to block further payments to them.
And it probably makes sense to make this story as public as possible.
Which pretty much summarizes one of the core points of personal ASes... ๐
Sorry this happened to you, and I hope that this is a wakeup for at least some people and orgs that are still a bit naive in that regard.
faggots.
An Oracle colleague told me that the company's name stood for "Owned by a Rich Arsehole Called Larry Ellison".
I joked when I joined that I had just signed up with "Globex Corporation". None of the team laughed.
The signs have always been there.
What tipped me over the edge was both the helplessness of Oracle "help" and Oracle's self-interest support for Trump's first bid for presidency.
I saw Larry Ellison in the mid to late 90s at a Linux event in San Jose. Big booth and he arrived unannounced, hopped up ona chair or table to tell us how Oracle loved freedom and Linux.
He was the best way they could have said "Don't use Oracle" and nobody walked away from that as believers in Oracle or its leadership.
Every time I've been tempted since, I've been hurt.
"Your account was suspended. Contact My Oracle Support for assistance." Soviel zum Always-Free-Tier der #Oracle Cloud. Ich hatte gestern ein OpenVPN fรผr meinen persรถnlichen Gebrauch aufgesetzt. //cc @frumble@chaos.socialMastodon
Oh, wow.
This is my experience with Oracle's customer "service":
mstdn.games/@Sven/111923443857โฆ
I think it was after I "successfully" created an account but still couldn't log in, because it didn't exist. ๐
Not sure how they still have paying customers at this point.
Attached: 1 image This must be the least effort I've ever witnessed in a customer service incident. Not even sure how to top this. Even stalebot (if you know, you know) seems more engaged. ๐Mastodon Games
This isn't normal, but with Oracle it is.
Oracle. Not even once.
They can, but they won't. Distictions matter.
@toriver @realn2s @funbaker
The history of Larry Ellison's support for fascist coups is interesting.
washingtonpost.com/politics/20โฆ
The history of Oracle itself is even more fascinating.
businessinsider.com/the-cia-maโฆ
People continue to ignore how well funded this fascist movement has become.
oracle.com/jo/news/announcemenโฆ
The CIA was the customer that launched Oracle, co-founder Larry Ellison said on stage Sunday night.Julie Bort (Business Insider)
You may have a legal right to know why they terminated your account.
In many jurisdictions, you have the right to request all personal information they have about you, especially stuff like this, and they are obligated to retain any information about you that were used to make a decision affecting you (like deleting your account) for a period of time (one year where I am) so you can make such request.
La decisione di Lituania ed Estonia di aumentare la spesa per la difesa al 5% del PIL segna un momento storico e al tempo stesso preoccupante nella politica europea.Giuseppe Gagliano (InsideOver)
@Notizie dall'Italia e dal mondo
La presentazione delle valutazioni preliminari del cingolato Lynx da parte dellโEsercito Italiano presso il Poligono militare di Nettuno segna un momento cruciale nel programma di ammodernamento delle forze corazzate nazionali. Il
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La campagna attorno a me domenica mattinaPixelfed
Facebook mi ha proposto questo ricordo (del 2011), ma visto che di lร me ne sto andando, e visto che questa scena mi emoziona sempre, lo ricreo qui...
They say that love is a fragile thing,
a limits wing, a magic ring made of gold.
They say that love is a bird in flight,
a gleam of light, a star too bright to behold.
Tell me, tell me, tell me oh child of the moon.
Is it as they say, must love slip away too soon.
Tell me, Rima, where are the meadows of June.
Speaking with her eyes, softly she replies:
I know a place, where green mansions are
as near or far, as any star up above.
And in this land of eternal spring
where hummingbirds can learn to sing.
Green groves, the mansions of love.
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Lo stipendio mensile lordo annuo di un insegnante รจ di 30 mila euro/anno. Ben al di sotto del costo di un'ora di volo di un F-35 che sfiora i 42 mila dollari.Redazione PeaceLink (PeaceLink)
Col coordinamento di Umberta Telfener, che ne ha curato la stesura, i Didatti della scuola di specializzazione in terapia sistemica del CMTF hanno prodotto un saggio che rappresenta lo stato attualโฆCorpi che parlano
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Oggi abbiamo passato un bellissimo e divertentissimo pomeriggio con una gara goliardica di tiro con l'arco fra i dipendenti e gli amministratori del comune di Piovene Rocchette.
Un doveroso ringraziamento al Sindaco Renato Grotto per averci creduto e per la fattiva collaborazione.
Un altro grande ringraziamento va alla ASD Arcieri del Pasubio per la qualificata assistenza tecnica.
Ora prepariamo la versione estiva.
#piovenerocchette #arcieridelpasubio #adp #tiroconlarco #archery
#sport
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Anche io sono qui da pochi giorni.
Qualche anno fa avevo deciso di prendere una seconda laurea in Psicologia, ho dato 2-3 esami ma poi ho dovuto rinunciare perchรฉ non riuscivo a far stare insieme universitร , figlio, lavoro e tutto il resto.
Poi...
In casa mia ci sono:
Dai che non sei solo ๐๐๐
Ciao,
Max
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@Massimo Max Giuliani @Massimiliano Polito uno dei modi piรน facili per trovare persone affini e quello di utilizzare i "gruppi": gruppi friendica, comunitร Lemmy, gruppi gup.pe (vedi qui per capire come funzionano)
Esiste per esempio una comunitร Lemmy @Musica Agorร ma anche un gruppo Friendica @Psicologia - Gruppo Forum
I gruppi funzionano come i vecchi gruppi di discussione: tu indirizzi il primo messaggio a loro e loro lo ripubblicano in favore di tutti quelli che lo seguono.
ร il sistema per simulare i gruppi Facebook o i subreddit all'interno del fediverso
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hoshikarakitaridia
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •liyunxiao
in reply to hoshikarakitaridia • • •F/15/Cali@threads.net
in reply to liyunxiao • • •compostgoblin
in reply to F/15/Cali@threads.net • • •Continued to support Democrats after they fucked him in the 2016 primary, Iโm guessing?
I donโt know, I still like him
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F/15/Cali@threads.net
in reply to compostgoblin • • •Lumiluz
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in reply to F/15/Cali@threads.net • • •โ Yฯษ ฦิฯส โ
in reply to hoshikarakitaridia • • •Bernie is basically a modern day version of Bernstein. Though a century apart, both peddle reformism as a political pacifier, diverting energy from the radical systemic change required to dismantle capitalism. Their approaches, while superficially progressive, function as ideological traps, diverting energy from serious movements necessary to upend capitalism.
Bernstein was a leading figure in Germany's SPD, and he famously rejected Marxist revolutionary praxis in favor of evolutionary socialism. He argued capitalism could be gradually reformed into socialism through parliamentary means, dismissing the inevitability of class conflict. He neutralized the SPD's revolutionary potential, channeling working-class demands into compromises like wage increases or limited welfare programs that left capitalist hierarchies intact. As Rosa Luxemburg warned in Reform or Revolution, Bernstein's strategy reduced socialism to a "mild appendage" of liberalism, sapping the working class of its transformative agency.
Likewise, the political project that Bernie pursued mirrors Bernstein's trajectory. While Sanders critiques inequality and corporate power, his platform centers on social democratic reforms, such as Medicare for All, tuition-free college, a $15 minimum wage, that treat symptoms instead of root causes. By framing electoral victory as the primary objective, Sanders diverted a what could have been a millions strong grassroots movement into the Democratic Party, an institution structurally committed to maintaining capitalism. His campaigns absorbed activist energy into phone banking and voter outreach, rather than building durable, extra-parliamentary power such as workplace organizations, tenant unions, and so on.
When Sanders conceded to Hillary Clinton and later Joe Biden, his base dissolved into disillusionment or shifted focus to lesser-evilism. Without autonomous structures to sustain pressure, the movement's momentum evaporated similarly to how the SPD was integrated into Weimar Germany's capitalist state. However, even if his agenda were enacted, it would exist within a neoliberal framework. Much like FDR's New Deal coexisted with Jim Crow, imperial plunder, and union busting. Reforms within the system are always contingent on their utility to capital, and their purpose is demobilize the workers.
A meaningful challenge to capitalism requires a long-term strategy that combines direct action, mass education, and dual power structures. Imagine if Sanders had urged supporters to unionize workplaces, organize rent strikes, and create community mutual aid networks alongside electoral engagement. Movements like MAS in Bolivia, show how grassroots power can pressure institutions while cultivating revolutionary consciousness. Instead, his campaign became a referendum on his candidacy, leaving his followers adrift after his defeat.
Bernstein and Sanders, despite their intentions, exemplify the dead end of reformism. Their projects mistake tactical concessions for strategic victory, ignoring capitalism's relentless drive to commodify and co-opt. In the end, the reformist approach ends up midwifing full blown fascism. By channeling energy into parliamentary politics, the SPD deprioritized mass mobilization. Unions and workers were encouraged to seek concessions rather than challenge capitalist power structures. This eroded class consciousness and left the working class unprepared to confront the nazi threat.
When the nazis gained momentum, the SPD clung to legalistic strategies, refusing to support strikes or armed resistance against Hitler. Their faith in bourgeois democracy blinded them to the existential threat of fascism, which exploited economic despair and nationalist resentment. In the end, SPD famously allied with the nazis against the communists.
The "progressive" wing of the Democratic Party is following in the footsteps of the SPDโs reformist trajectory. While advocating for policies like Medicare for All or climate action, it operates within capitalist constraints, undermining radical change and inadvertently fueling right-wing extremism. The Democrats absorb grassroots energy into electoral campaigns while their reliance on corporate donors ensures watered-down policies that fuel disillusionment.
The SPD's reformism actively enabled fascism by disorganizing the working class and legitimizing capitalist violence. Similarly, the Democratic Party's commitment to pragmatic incrementalism sustains a system that breeds reactionary backlash. Trump is a direct product of these policies. We're just watching history on repeat here.
โ๏ธ-
in reply to โ Yฯษ ฦิฯส โ • • •โ Yฯษ ฦิฯส โ
in reply to โ๏ธ- • • •krolden
in reply to โ Yฯษ ฦิฯส โ • • •MeowZedong
in reply to hoshikarakitaridia • • •Maybe for those who wish to support bombing foreigners while funnelling the military industry into their state.
Motherfucker parades around like he's antiwar because he voted "nay" on a single ballot initiative that was already a shoo-in and inconsequential for him to vote against. Literally a couple months later, he voted to further the funding for those military actions.
Bernie has had blood on his hands for 30-40 years now and continues to try to wash it off with more blood.
Someone who pretends to support the poor at home while simultaneously supporting bombing and invading the poor elsewhere sure is a role model, just not a good one.
davel
in reply to hoshikarakitaridia • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.comorca
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in reply to HappySkullsplitter • • •โ๐-๐๐
in reply to HappySkullsplitter • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to โ๐-๐๐ • • •Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Marxists are great people. Leninists have fantastic ideas. And Marxist-Leninists betray everything Marx and Lenin stood for.
"Socialism in one country" is the invention of a bourgeois dictator who sought to destroy communism because it was a threat to his power.
Karl Marx died an anarchist.
davel
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Declassified CIA report:
A lot of the cold war propaganda about the USSR turned out to be bullshit, as contemporary Western academic historians will tell you, including Domenico Losurdo.
CIA COMMENTS ON THE CHANGE IN SOVIET LEADERSHIP : CIA : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Internet ArchiveDragon Rider (drag)
in reply to davel • • •reddit.com/r/DebateAnarchism/cโฆ
Please judge this source by the content of the writing and the sourcing of its own arguments rather than by the hosting medium.
davel
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Even if it were true that Marx threw out his entire lifeโs work and became an anarchist on his deathbed, how did the Paris Commune turn out? Why has no anarchist society lasted more than a few months before collapsing from within, or from without by capitalist/imperialist forces? Anarchism has not and can not succeed in the world we presently live in, if for no other reason than they cannot defend themselves against the imperialist forces of the monopoly capitalists who want to profit from everything everywhere.
From Michael Parentiโs 1997 book Blackshirts and Reds:
Anticommunism & Wonderland
redsails.org๐ดAkuji
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to ๐ดAkuji • • •๐ดAkuji
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to ๐ดAkuji • • •Okay. We try to do that, butโฆ
Bloodlies : Grover Furr : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Internet Archive๐ดAkuji
in reply to davel • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •No, lol. Marx wanted a fully publicly owned and planned economy free of class antagonisms, Anarchists want decentralized networks of communes. These are very different systems with very different analysis.
Socialism in One Country is correct, Trotsky wanted to abandon building Socialism essentially and just keep trying to do revolutions elsewhere. The correct path is to not abandon building Socialism, while still supporting Socialist movements elsewhere.
TrickDacy
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •liyunxiao
in reply to TrickDacy • • •like this
Maeve likes this.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to TrickDacy • • •like this
Maeve likes this.
TrickDacy
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to TrickDacy • • •davel
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •unless theyโre to the left of the center-right,
in which case we spare no expense or moral compunction to primary the fuck out of them.
kasai (he/him)
in reply to TrickDacy • • •My dear fellow user, there is no need to be so defensive. No one is going to kill you or shame you because you express your views. I and many others here may even be convinced by you. Your opinion does matter, and so does you, so, there is no need to disregard someone open to discussion just because you diverge in something. If you don't want to discuss on something, there is always the option to not give these quick-witted responses, saying few words and assuming positions from "the enemy" that the person has never said. No one here is your "enemy".
If you really think u/Cowbee is wrong, and wish for other people to understand you, articulate your answers. Say in a comprehensible way WHY he is wrong, instead of making arguments like "oh yes because my opinion is shit and you are the only pure socialist" or some ironic weak shit like that. We are (mostly) all adults, there is no need to engage in childish behavior, and you should not expect that we will understand what you mean by saying "his definition is wrong" without saying what "definition".
If you really think that there is no convincing anyone here, because we are all hopeless mfs or smth, just stop arguing and save yourself the time and sanity.
TrickDacy
in reply to kasai (he/him) • • •Lunar
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to Lunar • • •Lunar
in reply to TrickDacy • • •prototype_g2
in reply to TrickDacy • • •Funny you put quotes on the word liberal. You know words have meanings and definitions right? I know many people don't bother to check a term's meaning and end up miss using it, but that does not detract from the fact that the word still has meaning.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberaliโฆ
Note that liberalism defends the right to private property (AKA Capitalism). (Also, private property and personal property are two different things.)
political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Lunar
in reply to TrickDacy • • •lemmy.world users and completely missing the point of every single argument
name a more iconic duo
TrickDacy
in reply to Lunar • • •Lunar
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to Lunar • • •Lunar
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to Lunar • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to TrickDacy • • •Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Exactly! Marxists, anarchists, and leninists are alllies. Statist liberals on the other hand, whether they be social democratic corporate capitalists or stalinistic state capitalists, will always try to infiltrate and divide the communist movement.
It's just like this motte-and-bailey meme. The implied position is that the communists were wrong to tell the Americans to vote against fascism. The strong position, which is claimed to be the only position when it meets resistance, is that it's only against capitalist liberals.
ClathrateG [none/use name]
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •like this
Maeve likes this.
Belly_Beanis [he/him]
in reply to ClathrateG [none/use name] • • •Hatandwatch [she/her, comrade/them]
in reply to Belly_Beanis [he/him] • • •Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to ClathrateG [none/use name] • • •themeatbridge
Unknown parent • • •culprit
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •leftist : anti-capitalism :: liberal : pro-capitalism
Why is this so hard for some radlibs to understand? I think it is all the propaganda they passively consume.
davel
in reply to culprit • • •Antonio Gramsci - ProleWiki
ProleWikiBelly_Beanis [he/him]
in reply to culprit • • •lewdian69
in reply to culprit • • •davel
in reply to lewdian69 • • •awareness of one's social class
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)lewdian69
in reply to davel • • •Again very US centric in this definition but it's who needs deprogramming.
davel
in reply to lewdian69 • • •Sometimes the evolution of language isnโt so much organic as it is a political project, such as a century of red scares and socialist purges.
Americans believe Sanders when he calls himself a socialist because theyโve lost a vocabulary for socialism itself. And they think Sandersโ centrism is โthe left,โ because the Overton window has shifted so far right that there is no left left.
We canโt simply use their terms, because their terminology is both muddled and lacking.
range of ideas tolerated in public discourse
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)lewdian69
in reply to davel • • •Ok. But regardless of the cause, organic or political project, it doesn't change the fact that the language has moved on correct?
But there's the rub. You/we ARE using their terms and the message is muddled and lacking BECAUSE OF the difference in perceived definitions. And as the past couple decades have shown there is zero chance of getting the American people to learn things, or unlearn as the case may be.
I assume very few people this far down a thread into a political discussion, on Lemmy, don't know what the Overton windowS are and how fucked the US is because of the current far right position on the left/right scales. I find it lacking and dislike it's libertarian origins. We are even now discussing the difference of a word being used for social vs economic ideas and these two scales do not necessarily overlap.
PunnyName
in reply to lewdian69 • • •You don't think words can mean things?
You just live in some kind of word salad blob?
lewdian69
in reply to PunnyName • • •~~What? That's literally the opposite of what I'm saying... I'm saying words can have multiple meanings depending on context.
But the point of this was how does "liberal" having a different colloquial definition from how op was using it have anything do with "developing class consciousness" which can be done regardless of this single word?~~
Yes
bloubz
in reply to lewdian69 • • •Isn't it progressism?
But anyway liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. The artificial differences created between conservatives and progressists is just a smoke screen to create a false debate and prevent from challenging capitalism, switching the enemy from the rulling capitalist class to the person next door with different views
Dessalines
in reply to lewdian69 • • •This is also wrong. US liberals are just as anticommunist as their further right counterparts, and their "social liberalism" goes only so far as not to infringe on capitalist "freedom" to do whatever they can get away with. Hence their hatred of homeless / the poor, communists, and colonized peoples.
As the saying goes, US liberals are against every genocide except the current one. Hence their staunch support for Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
kaprap
in reply to culprit • • •Leftist โ Liberalism
Liberalism is Leftwing leaning but isn't leftist
blindbunny
in reply to kaprap • • •Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to kaprap • • •folaht
in reply to Z_Poster365 [none/use name] • • •Liberal is centre-right to right-wing.
PunnyName
in reply to kaprap • • •FTFY
Quadhammer
in reply to kaprap • • •Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to culprit • • •Quadhammer
in reply to culprit • • •dubyakay
in reply to Quadhammer • • •Quadhammer
in reply to dubyakay • • •Okay buddy. You guys just want to twist a good ideology into a wedge issue. The only thing vaguely "capitalist" about a liberal is the belief that the government isnt allowed to seize your shit unlawfully. The right to own property comes way after personal liberty in my book. That means billionaires dont get a pass for abusing the populace.
davel
in reply to Quadhammer • • •Liberalism means PRO CAPITALISM.
The first sentence from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberaliโฆ:
From the first paragraph of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_โฆโ :
Liberalism: A Counter-History (online copy)
โ Not to be confused with personal property.
Personal property - ProleWiki
ProleWikiQuadhammer
in reply to davel • • •That line says nothing about capitalism. Pro ownership? That is a tenet of some branches of leftism. I dont agree with corporations or the state having a monopoly on land ownership. Though the government cant come and take an individuals shit for no reason. Being an abusive billionaire though has an asterisk in the foot notes.
Though I'd argue that anyone owning shit comes a large and wide second or 3rd to human rights.
It says it right there.
blindbunny
in reply to Quadhammer • • •Dessalines
in reply to Quadhammer • • •krolden
in reply to Dessalines • • •JusticeForPorygon
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to JusticeForPorygon • • •nothing, it's just anti-trans, anti-queer bullshitting.
Edit: after looking it up, if i understand it correctly, it's misogynistic bullshit? maybe? maybe not? idk
davel
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •pink cat-ear beanie hats
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)goldfndr
in reply to davel • • •What did Biden have the authority to do that wasn't done (to avoid this loss)?
blindbunny
in reply to goldfndr • • •Reddfugee42
in reply to blindbunny • • •blindbunny
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •Krauerking
in reply to Reddfugee42 • • •queermunist she/her
in reply to goldfndr • • •The Supreme Court ruled that any Official Act done by the President is Constitutional.
Surely you can think of some pretty cool stuff this enables?
ubergeek
in reply to goldfndr • • •plzExplainNdetail
in reply to JusticeForPorygon • • •Officially named Pussyhats, they were first worn symbolically at the 2017 US Women's March in Washington DC. Created by Krista Suh and Jayna Zweiman (who met at an LA knitting club), the hat was made in direct response to grab em by the pussy remark from tdump. The original idea was for marchers to knit, sew, or crochet hats to create a visual statement โa sea of pink. "If everyone at the march wears a pink hat, the crowd will be a sea of pink, showing that we stand together, united," reads the introduction to the knitting pattern on the Pussyhat Project website. The actual hats were created by people who could not attend physically, but wanted to show their support.
Since then, some have come out against it as any one symbol isn't as all encompassing as they would like, but none have yet given or inspired a good replacement for such a strong show of women's solidarity.
The Pussy Power Hat is more than just a piece of headwear; it is a symbol of protest, unity, and the power of grassroots movements. The project demonstrated how a simple act of knitting could contribute to a larger political discourse, inspiring similar initiatives worldwide.
The Pussy Power Hat: A Symbol of Solidarity and Resistance - Encyclopedia of Design
Simon (Encyclopedia Design)Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to JusticeForPorygon • • •SoJB
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •RizzRustbolt
in reply to SoJB • • •I'm okay with it.
I hate those stupid transphobic hats.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •I'm really struggling to find a party that i fully agree with.
For one, i like true leftist ideals, but i don't like guns, so i guess the left parts of the image doesn't apply to me.
On the other side, i think the long-standing support for Ukraine is an atrocious mistake, because it prolongs the suffering unnecessarily (after all, the uproar in Ukraine is mostly an CIA-inspired action after all i believe, and diplomatic solutions were not sought). But shitting on that pink hat (which is clearly a symbol for queer/trans people) is just unacceptable. just leave the people live their own private life as they want. What's so difficult about that?
Edit: as per the comments, i stand corrected and am sorry for my half-assed take. i'll leave it up anyways, because i guess it's a chance to learn for any reader.
Maturin [any]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •its time to read theory. you are currently at the utopian anarchist stage. which is a step in a better direction, but ultimately irrational.
you need to better understand that the people in the image [conveniently] on the left incorporated violence because they lived under the constant threat of deadly violence. 99% of the violence was directed at them. Fred Hampton was executed by the police not long after that picture of him was taken.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Maturin [any] • • •โ๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธEdie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Political theory. Like this intro reading list
Cowbee [he/they]
2024-11-12 13:19:57
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to โ๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธEdie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name] • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to โ๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธEdie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name] • • •mortemtyrannis
in reply to Maturin [any] • • •Do you really need to read volumes of theory to grasp what is fundamentally a rather straightforward concept?
Leftism shouldnโt be locked behind intellectual elitism.
TL;DR the capitalist state will use threats of violence/actual violence against threats to capitalism which includes those who stand for progressive ideals. Leftists believe this is a justification to use violence against the state.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to mortemtyrannis • • •There's merit to your question. Ultimately, as someone who largely hadn't taken theory seriously until the last couple of years, I think theory is not only useful, but necessary. There are good comrades who do good work without theory, I don't want to discredit that. However, theory has had a profound impact on my understanding of history, tactics, and life itself. Theory is important because our predecessors have given their lives discovering and handing down the lessons they've learned.
From Marx, who dedicated his entire life to discovering the mechanisms of Capitalism to give the Proletariat the tools to surpass it, to Lenin, who analyzed Capitalism's monstrous evolution to Imperialism, to Gramsci who spent the later years of his life rotting in prison and reflecting on Marxian teachings, to Politzer who stood against the Nazis and taught Parisan workers Dialectical and Historical Materialism before being captured and executed for his Jewish heritage and Communist alliance, to modern theoreticians such as Losurdo, Parenti, and the many Communists who dedicated their lives to the working class. Revolutionaries like Mao, Fidel, Guevara, Ho Chi Minh, Lenin, and more all have unique lessons to tell from their experiences in their existence. People like Mao, Deng, Xi, Zhou Enlai, Liu Shaoqi, and more have helped build and design the largest economy in the world. What can we learn from them? What should we copy, what should change?
We owe it to them to learn from the lessons they dedicated their lives to teaching us. We have a duty to humanity to move beyond the wretched system of Capitalism before the planet is destroyed by Climate Change for the pursuit of profit. We owe it to our predecessors to continue the work they started. We owe it to our successors to use the best tools we can to make their struggles easier. We owe it to ourselves, so that we have a future.
Theory is a tool. If you don't take every advantage you can against the most heartless, greedy, brutal Empire in history, do you really care at all? If you refuse to truly learn your enemy, in all its complicated facets of expropriation, or learn the successful tactics and strategies for overcoming them, or learn from the missteps of our predecessors or the correct actions they've taken, we will not have a decisive victory.
โ๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธEdie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]
in reply to mortemtyrannis • • •Yes! The three volumes on shitting are essential reads. (/s)
Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to mortemtyrannis • • •Maturin [any]
in reply to mortemtyrannis • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •That isn't what that is a symbol for at all. It was a knit hat made for an ineffective Trump protest in 2017. Actually queer and trans people found the hats exclusionary. So did non white people whose genitalia aren't that color. The entire pussy-hat movement was feel-good liberal activity that accomplished nothing and made no difference. Much like the liberal "support" for Ukraine.
This is extreme privilege. None of us like guns just to like guns. Brother Malcolm was being threatened with his life daily and his home was firebombed then he was assassinated, he was trying to protect himself. Fred Hampton was literally murdered by the police. The Zapatistas and Palestinians don't resort to violence because they "like it" either, they are targets of the state that act with violence on them and both have learned that civil disobedience has its limits. Sacco and Vanzetti were anarchists that were executed by the state after being framed and falsely accused of a bombing, armed robbery and murder which the state of Massachusetts apologized for in 1977.
ShinkanTrain
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to ShinkanTrain • • •WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •moody
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •So you suggest they should have let Russia annex and genocide the rest of Ukraine like they did with Crimea?
Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Z_Poster365 [none/use name] • • •wait until they self-destruct, mostly.
i say this as an european
Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •this is laughably utopian and ahistorical, i'm sorry but this is fantasy. There's a reason that the "violent" and "authoritarian" communists have actually won and seized power while the utopian eurocommies have never accomplished a single thing.
Your nation has never successfully had a revolution. They need to be listening and learning from those that have, following their example, and not trying to invent their own perfect (white) system from whole cloth
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Z_Poster365 [none/use name] • • •Well yeah i can tell you what the communists have achieved in the Sovjet Union, and that's 20 million people dead due to stalinistic terror. So much for "winning". No thank you.
Meanwhile, lots of european economies (and people!) have been doing well since after the second world war. Maybe they have accomplished something.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Life expectancy over doubled from the 30s to the 70s in the USSR. Literacy rates went from the 20s and 30s to 99.9%, above Western European and USian rates. Famine was ended by collectivization and industrialization in a country where famine was common under the Tsar. This same nation, barely industrializing at the start of the 20th century, beat the United States into space, and continued beating it with the first man and first woman in space.
Social Safety Nets expanded greatly. Healthcare and Education were free and high quality. Housing was incredibly affordable, and there was full employment. Abortion was not only legalized, but free. Women played a role even in the highest ranks of politics. The economy was democratized. 80% of the combat in World War 2 was on the Eastern Front, the Soviets defeated the Nazis.
Sadly, there were excess deaths, but 20 million people did not die, such a number comes from anti-communist myth-makers before the opening of the Soviet Archives. The numbers given by the Black Book of Communism include Nazis killed during World War 2, and use various other misdirections to grossly inflate the number of excess deaths. Were there excess deaths? Sadly, yes, and nobody denies this. However, when compared to contemporary peers like the British Empire who intentionally starved millions of Bengalis, the French who were colonizing Vietnam, Algeria, and more, or the United States who killed millions of Iraqis, Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, and more, the USSR played a far more progressive role. From supporting Palestinian resistance against genocide, to helping China throw off their colonizers, to helping Algeria throw off the French, to helping Vietnam against the US Empire and French Colonialists, the Soviets played a far better role.
Wealth inequality went far down, whike GDP growth was constantly positive except during World War 2. It was one of the most rapidly growing economies in the 20th century.
Western Europe (and of course the US to a greater degree), to this day, relies on brutal expropriation of the Global South through outsourcing industry and brutal IMF loans. They have been doing well because they are Imperialists. To say they are doing well is to say the Trust Fund kid working at his father's investment firm is doing well, he does so on the backs of actual laborers and did not earn his vast wealth, but inhereted it from former and current Empire.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Colonization and now Imperialism have been the driving forces of Western European Economies for centuries. All of this sheer expropriation of wealth hasn't gone away in any capacity, the IMF still debt traps countries in Africa, Latin America, and other areas in the Global South. Especially during the latter 19th and early 20th centuries, countries like Britain, Germany, and France had industrialized to the point of monopolization, and a blending of financial and industrial Capital. This turned towards the Global South, seeking to export Capital to super-exploit for super-profits.
If you want to read about the origins of this system, the book Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism is quite a quick read, written in the early 20th century (though it mentions many entities that exist today in the same forms, like Deutsche Bank). For modern analysis, Super-Imperialism by Hudson, though it is US based Western European Imperialism is intricately tied to US Imperialism.
3rd Edition: Super-Imperialism | Michael Hudson
Michael (Michael Hudson)anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •That would be a funny tagline.
Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Ram_The_Manparts [he/him] • • •Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to Ram_The_Manparts [he/him] • • •Z_Poster365 [none/use name]
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •GrammarPolice
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •MechanicalJester
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •Helps get a rapist felon fascist get elected
๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •MechanicalJester
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •Wakmrow [he/him]
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •in professional wrestling, the portrayal of staged events as if they were true
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)MechanicalJester
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •MechanicalJester
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •Harris was not going to push for more tax breaks for the ultra rich.
The project 2025 agenda was not going to be pursued under Harris.
You may not approve of the Harris agenda, but they are not remotely comparable except through an absolutist all or nothing lens.
Claiming they are the same is absurd.
๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •Wakmrow [he/him]
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •ziproot
in reply to MechanicalJester • • •Yes, it is better to vote for a Democrat than a Republican, but it is much better to build grassroots support for leftism, which, shocker, is what leftists have been trying to do in the US for centuries. If anything, the leftists are doing the most to fight fascism, by trying to get rid of the US system of government that is biased towards the status quo, which by definition benefits the ruling class.
blindbunny
Unknown parent • • •UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • •ynthrepic
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •Why couldn't your meme show like solar punk utopian imagery, and people living in beautiful harmony with nature.
Oh, that's why.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ynthrepic • • •The problem with Solarpunk is that it isn't really grounded in theory, it's a vibe and an aesthetic, a hope for a better future but without any real binding ideology. It's easy to transform, like cottagecore being weaponized into upholding traditional gender roles.
Solar will absolutely be a huge part of the future, but getting there requires taking supremacy over Capital to go against the car and oil industries. This requires Socialism.
ynthrepic
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •The term was literally created by Marxists to insult the kind of person who wants to use tanks to suppress a worker's revolution. Tankies aren't communists. They're counterrevolutionaries who want to stop all progress made towards dissolving the state as Marx said.
AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demands_โฆ
So you're saying the revolution demanding minimum wage and the right to strike wasn't a worker's revolution? Are all tankies this right-wing or just you?
Demands of Hungarian Revolutionaries of 1956 - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to AntiOutsideAktion • • •- Lenin, 1922
It probably means they read Lenin and liked his ideas a lot better than Stalin's nonsense. Now, you were explaining how tankies oppose minimum wage and the right to strike?
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •To be clear, drag is calling Nazis and Nazi sympathizers "the advanced working class." Trying to twist Lenin into supporting fascism is incorrect, to say the least.
Moreover, Stalin was dead before 1956, this was Khrushchev.
Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •There's nothing fascist in the 16 demands, and drag's search for evidence of this chalk thing turned up nothing with the word "chalk" in it -
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •drag asked for sources, was that just to waste my time? Read them. Here's another few excerpts:
Section from the book โThe Truth about Hungaryโ by Herbert Aptheker; a prominent figure in U.S. scholarly discourse in the 1940โs, and Marxist Historian. Written in 1957 it outlined what later would be confirmed by the bourgeois Western press:
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •drag does realize that the Hungarian counter-revolutionaries were working with literal Nazis, and were marking the doors of Jews and Communists, right? They were lynching people, and even freed Nazis from jail to help with the lynching. The "political parties" they wanted to be able to participate were not worker parties, but fascist ones.
This is genuinely what liberals often accuse "tankies" of doing: uncritically supporting movements based on nominally being progressive, despite in reality being highly reactionary. Further, Hungary wanted to get out of paying reparations for World War II, that was one of the biggest cruxes of the situation. Who did Hungary fight alongside in WWII, does drag remember?
Spoiler: the Nazis.
Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •This is a decent overview of the background that led up to the events of 1956, and this is a decent overview of the darker side, where the lynchings happened. Content Warning: lynched corpses. Here is a source on MI6 training and arming the counterrevolutionaries. Those 3 articles give only the briefest overview of the events, but don't do the real buildup to them, their complexities, what the people actually supported, or the real character in any depth. If drag wants to actually take a deep dive, these are additional sources:
The History of the Working Class Movement in Hungary
1956 Counter-Revolution in Hungary
Others can offer more sources.
Overall, when it comes to geopolitical enemies of the United States in particular, it would not be a bad idea to treat drag's current understanding with extreme skepticism until drag has investigated counter-sources as well. That doesn't mean the US always lies, in fact it frequently tells mostly the truth, but will distory either the quality or quantity of an event.
The 1956 counter-revolution in Hungary and the present-day anti-Communist Propaganda
www.idcommunism.comDragon Rider (drag)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Read the sources drag asked for. What this was was a bourgeois supported counter-revolution that armed fascists that were doing pograms. The legitimacy of the demands immediately comes into question when drag understands that these were Nazi sympathizers. They wanted to allow fascist and Capitalist parties to dominate Hungary and wanted to get out of paying reparations for the damage they did as Nazis during World War II.
As for striking, it happened sometimes in the Soviet Union. Worker rights were much better there than in Western countries so it wasn't as common.
AntiOutsideAktion
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •What the hell you talking about? These are all revolutionary heroes acting in self defense and promoting solidarity.
Calling Fanon a tankie is the most ridiculous thing I've read today. Try reading a book for once in your life. He talks about how violence psychologically harms the revolutionary more than it does the people they attack.
Malcolm X was protecting himself after being firebombed here.
Fred Hampton was a socialist and preached cross racial solidarity and black power as a way of elevating black people into solidarity.
The Zapatistas are indigenous heroes who are resisting oppression of the state, who prefer civil disobedience but will act to protect themselves.
Sacco and Vanzetti were organizing a general strike and were framed then murdered by the state
Leila Khalid was separated from her family at 15 during the Palestinian expulsion and resisting Israeli occupation
Where the hell are the tankies in this pic? What are you people even talking about
Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •drag is defending a fascist counter-revolution, and refused to read sources after asking for them. drag wasn't right about anything. You are defending people that lynched and massacred Jewish people and Communists.
Section from the book โThe Truth about Hungaryโ by Herbert Aptheker; a prominent figure in U.S. scholarly discourse in the 1940โs, and Marxist Historian. Written in 1957 it outlined what later would be confirmed by the bourgeois Western press:
Dragon Rider (drag)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •The fascist movement was the "revolution." If you're saying that the Soviets caused this by beating the Nazis and the Axis powers in World War II, you're siding with the Nazis.
Anarcho-Bolshevik
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Anarcho-Bolshevik • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to Dragon Rider (drag) • • •Quadhammer
in reply to blindbunny • • •Typical leftoid
blindbunny
in reply to Quadhammer • • •gearheart
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •There two sides.
1% and their zombies
The rest of us.
Let's not split up and weaken. ๐ช
BrainInABox
in reply to gearheart • • •PieMePlenty
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •The "left" is way too broad of a grouping today. The classic political compass is 2D with left-right referring to economic and up-down (authoritarian-libertarian) to social policy. And even that is oversimplifying it, many saying it should be 3D. Grouping everyone into either A or B is I guess what humans do when their understanding of a topic is too narrow.
I find this especially funny with Trump's tariffs. You know, the mechanism with which you control the market... closing it... like leftist economic policy does. Trump is a leftist now? Any more tariffs and he'll be a complete communist! Dismantle more government and he'll be an anarchist! It just completely falls apart.
ziproot
in reply to PieMePlenty • • •This is supposed to be a tetrahedron, but I suck at drawing 3D shapes. Just imagine that anarchism is the top of the tetrahedron and that the triangle is the base.
EDIT: Also, yellow is liberalism, if you canโt read it
EDIT 2: I have no qualm with down-voting, but I would prefer a comment explaining what parts specifically you did not like, so I know how to not make the same mistake in the future.
aelixnt
in reply to ziproot • • •Political compasses are silly and pointless brainrot. Yes, this includes trying to make new and better galaxy brain political compasses. It especially includes that. "Meritocracy" lol.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ziproot • • •I'll offer an explanation, I think it would be helpful.
First, mapping complex political beliefs on ill-defined and vague lines adds more confusion than it clarifies. What is authoritarianism? What is meritocracy? We have a general idea, but these aren't useful for measuring ideologies.
Second, making it 3D makes little sense. Why is Liberalism in the "meritocracy" column, when one of the most widely agreed countries to focus on an idea of meritocracy, China, is a Socialist Market Economy? Why is liberalism distinct from conservativism enough to be an entirely separate leg?
All in all, it's nice to think about how to view ideologies, but we should view them as they are, and not on some map that doesn't exist. For example, why is a fully publicly owned, democratic society considered more "authoritarian" than society decided by the whims of few Capitalists competing like warlords?
ziproot
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to ziproot • • •bouh
in reply to PieMePlenty • • •While this is somewhat true, in all of the west there are only 3 groups currently : liberals, fascists and leftists.
Liberals are a diverse group, ranging from socio-democrat and liberal green parties to libertarian who leans on fascism.
Fascists are all the brands of conservatives who leverage racism, authoritarianism and nationalism.
Leftists are basically the groups opposed to both fascism and liberalism.
Those are 3 objective groups. They are the groups that determine how likely they will cooperate or oppose each other, or how elections will turn.
Some parties will be a bit in between, but that's merely political communication. In practice a group that promote itself as a middle group is actually leaning right. This means that "leftist liberals" (who range from some green parties and movements to the socio-democrats) will always pick liberals if they must choose between them and the left. Likewise, conservatives and libertariens are leaning toward fascism when given the choice.
The political spectrum is radicalised and triparted. You can deny this model and blur the information, but it usually means that you are leaning more to the right than you are pretending.
m532
Unknown parent • • •Korhaka
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to Korhaka • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Korhaka • • •Lila_Uraraka
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to Lila_Uraraka • • •JohnDClay
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to JohnDClay • • •JohnDClay
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to JohnDClay • • •JohnDClay
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Dessalines
in reply to JohnDClay • • •Itsapersonn
in reply to Dessalines • • •Dessalines
in reply to Itsapersonn • • •It seems like it should help, but in practice, its been useless. You end up having a greater diversity of candidates and parties, but if capital still stands above the political system and controls it, it just means more capitalist puppets, and more advertising money required to get those preferred puppets elected.
Multi-party Bourgeois parliamentarism is not really any different from the ancient roman imperial senate. Its government by oligarchy / the wealthy entrenched class.
PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to Itsapersonn • • •Lila_Uraraka
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •tiredturtle
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to tiredturtle • • •vga
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to vga • • •Zerush
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •AbsoluteChicagoDog
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •vfreire85
in reply to AbsoluteChicagoDog • • •AbsoluteChicagoDog
in reply to vfreire85 • • •Unless you're gay, lesbian, trans, atheist, Muslim, Jewish, Satanist, black, brown, female, an immigrant, or really anything other than a straight white Christian man.
What an incredibly privileged take. Try having some empathy for other people sometime.
vfreire85
in reply to AbsoluteChicagoDog • • •of course. let's have some respect for the american minorities while minorities abroad can be tortured in some basement in a third world shithole while being watched over by a cia agent.
and i get to be called privileged by some oversized gringo. oh the imperialist exceptionalism.
Catfish [she/her]
in reply to AbsoluteChicagoDog • • •Dessalines
in reply to AbsoluteChicagoDog • • •Just because US democrats stopped calling them "detention camps", and prefer "influx" facilities, doesn't mean they did anything to dismantle the immigrant prison system that's currently holding 30,000+ people in camps.
Wikimedia list article
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Dessalines
in reply to AbsoluteChicagoDog • • •America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign
Medea Benjamin (The Guardian)dandelion
in reply to Dessalines • • •For trans people in the U.S., the difference between a GOP win and a Dem win in the house, senate, and presidential elections is the difference between having or not having certain rights.
Federal prisons now will force trans women to be transferred to male prisons and they will be denied gender-affirming care like access to estrogen.
If you are a trans person in the U.S. there is a clear difference between the Dems and the GOP - one is clearly better than the other.
Nothing in response has responded to this, shown it to be false, etc.
It does not require that we overlook that the Dems have far-right policies, especially on immigration and international affairs. It does not require we defend U.S. imperialism to say the Dems are better than the GOP for trans people in the U.S. Both are true.
I understand the moral disgust and the impulse to see how villainous the Dems are, I feel the same way, but if you care about the political outcomes, you can't ignore that there remain significant and tangible differences between the parties and their policies.
Jentu
in reply to dandelion • • •Grandwolf319
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to Grandwolf319 • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •He did a lot more than "save capitalism". Social Security, the Citizens Conservation Corpse, and the full blown WW2-era command economy (complete with ration cards and production quotas and public housing for all the rapidly mobilized industrial workers) had far more in common with Stalinism than Coolidge's laisse-faire market economy. Hell, FDR even had his share of gulags, when you consider how Japanese Internment Camps were created and administered.
There's a sharp line between an oversized land baron clutching a fist full of stock certificates and a popular elected bureaucrat charged with administering the public labor force.
Oligarchy can't just be "guy with rich parents" or it quickly descends into austerity fetishism. Oligarchy is fundamentally anti-populist. It requires a strong centralized police force to compel a broad, disorganized public into acting against their own material interests. FDR's New Deal was a meaningful shift away from oligarchy precisely because he adopted policies from his left-leaning proletarian base in defiance of the Depression-Era economic elites. And he implemented them with the enthusiastic support of the body public. Nobody was getting held up at gunpoint to take a salary from the Parks' Department or to pile into Keynesian school house construction programs or to patch up wounded soldiers at the VA.
FDR's personal wealth gave him a platform upon which to propagandize left-liberal policies on a national stage. But his messages resonated because they had a popular basis not because he simply hammered people with Madison Avenue propaganda.
BobTheDestroyer
in reply to UnderpantsWeevil • • •You seem to be arguing that FDR was a leftist because of the policies he implemented. But I think what you are missing is why he implemented those policies. I think the truth is he didn't really have the public interest at heart. His agenda was to contain a growing threat to capitalism in the form of the Communist Party of the 1930s. His strategy to contain the CP was to neuter the party by bringing it into the Democratic party fold, alienating their most militant members, and slowly squashing their agenda. Of course he had to appeal to their interests to do so. But it was a temporary strategy, not a real shift in US policy. There are a few articles on the topic if you are genuinely interested. Here's one. And here's a quote from another.
The Popular Front Didnโt Work
jacobin.comUnderpantsWeevil
in reply to BobTheDestroyer • • •Its hard to argue a politician is something other than his policies.
The why hardly matters. Only the consequences. You can definitely argue that FDR failed to cement the more progressive programs (fully employment through public agencies, public control of finance and agriculture, a long term peaceful coexistence with the Soviet states). And for that reason, he was a kind-of failure. But I would argue putting the weight of the world on one man's shoulders is deeply unfair. FDR took US policy as far as he could. Then it was Truman and Eisenhower and their lackeys who fumbled the bag (or capitulated to corporate interests deliberately).
The Democratic Party, as a whole, has a vested interest in neutralizing rival movements and harvesting their members. That's not a strategy FDR invented or pioneered. Neither was the DemSoc liberalism of FDR incompatible with a more Reform Oriented American Communist Movement. The strategy worked in large part because American Communists saw FDR's outreach to Stalin's Russia and Mao's China as a positive turn foreshadowing a real global movement.
I might argue that Stalin's "Communism in One Country" and Mao's failure to open China up until Nixon, thirty years later, that did more damage than FDR's liberal-washing of Communist organizing efforts. I could easily argue that the Truman/Eisenhower Cold War was what ultimately did in the American Communists. Socialists couldn't uproot Hoover from the FBI or unseat McCarthy from a strong union state like Wisconsin or keep guys like Nixon or Kennedy from worming their way into the upper echelons of the US government on a wave of mafia money.
At some point, you have to acknowledge the failures within the leftist organizing movements that happened in the US. Deng and Khrushchev and Ho Chi Mein and Kim Il Sung didn't collapse in the face of these problems in their home states and they all had it much worse.
Quadhammer
in reply to blindbunny • • •blindbunny
in reply to Quadhammer • • •Quadhammer
in reply to blindbunny • • •blindbunny
in reply to Quadhammer • • •Oh you mean pro-Incarceration, pro-imperialism, pro-colonialism pro-genocide? Honestly I think you need to pick up a book if you think supporting any of that isn't ignorant shit. Shit, there's whole songs about how you're wrong.
I hate liberals because they think they can stay in their heated box and ignore their community while people freeze and starve to death because they can't contribute to some oligarch's capital and only leave to work for said oligarch so they can afford their funco pops and magic cards.
I hate liberals because they don't intersectionalize and they're quicker to bend a knee to their boss then to join in a strike.
But you do you, spineless lib.
- YouTube
youtu.beBelly_Beanis [he/him]
Unknown parent • • •UnderpantsWeevil
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •"You can't trust those leftists because they're just tankies"
The Tankie they're referring to:
millie
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •This framing isn't particularly helpful for solidarity.
The left relies on coalitions. Criticizing the stewards of those coalitions because they fail to address the needs of the people they rely on for votes is helpful and constructive. Just reducing all left-wing voters to a pair of stereotypes and trying to push one of those stereotypes away from the other? Not helpful.
We need nuanced dialogue and mutual aid. It's a matter of survival. This isn't that.
๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด
in reply to millie • • •They are imperial murderers and managers of corporate oligarchy. The solidarity we form is against them. They are not left-wing at all, they are hard right wing reactionaries in a nation where the overton window has been shifted and the population is so brainwashed that they can even entertain that they are left-wing. They are barely left of most right wing politicians in the world. As a prosecutor, Kamala Harris has condemned thousands of innocent people to hard labor in slave camps and is an agent of the carceral state. Anyone in the US government is the enemy of free people in the US and around the world.
Your last phrase uses the words of the people on the left not the right, but clearly you don't understand the problem. You are just an apologist for genocide, slavery and empire.
millie
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •ziproot
Unknown parent • • •Yeah, I didnโt even touch Pennsylvania. If you ignore Pennsylvania (specifically PA-7 and PA-8 which are the most likely candidates for election shenanigans) and the one seat Republicans gained due to gerrymandering (technically three: NC-6, NC-13, NC-14, but Republicans actually had to remove gerrymandering leading to Democrat wins in LA-6 and AL-2), Democrats would have taken the House. This is why the Supreme Court ended up voting against Independent State Legislature, as it would have benefited the Democrats due to ending the independent redistricting committees in states like California.
EDIT: I honestly think Republicans thought the race would be closer than it was, so they messed with suburban Philadelphia specifically since Pennsylvania was key to their strategy. This is mostly due to polling errors in PA-7 and PA-8 that underestimated the Republican by eight points, along with comments by Musk and Trump.
Oh, and also this article. Yes itโs New York Post, bear with me here. nypost.com/2024/11/05/us-news/โฆ
They didnโt say this, but Laflin Borough is part of PA-8.
Election Day problems in 3 deep-red Pennsylvania counties threaten to delay results for critical swing state
Ethan Dodd (New York Post)Airportline
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •โ๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธEdie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]
in reply to Airportline • • •ILikeBoobies
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •If someone said they were leftist then I would very much hope they were pro EU and pro Ukraine
Itโs the far right that is against those
Pilferjinx
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •ILikeBoobies
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •Probably not left then
Just want to pretend they are because they arenโt as far right as someone they can point to
Pilferjinx
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •explodicle
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •agent_nycto
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •davel
in reply to agent_nycto • • •davel
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •Pilferjinx
in reply to davel • • •Pilferjinx
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •I donโt think Russia currently has an interest in expansion. I already linked above to the reasons for Russiaโs invasion, and they werenโt revanchism or Lebensraum, as Western governments & media claim.
Itโs also often said that Russia is imperialist. I think that if Russia could be imperialist it would be, but since it presently canโt, it presently isnโt. Putin tried to join NATO once, to join the imperialism club, but the US rejected Russia, because the US wanted (and still wants) Russia Balkanized and re-plundered instead. Russia has figured out that itโs better off allying with Global South countries than attempting imperialist adventures upon them. And this war has accelerated that allyship.
Iโve answered this before: lemmy.ml/comment/9498456
sudden release of price and currency controls
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Pilferjinx
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •I think Russia knows full well that it canโt โreclaimโ western Ukraine: few people there want to be part of Russia, and the Banderite fascists especially donโt. It would be a absolute nightmare to hold. There would be endless insurgencies and bloodshed, and it would be a huge drain on state resources. Russia wants what is says it has wanted since the 1990s: a neutral buffer state.
Keep in mind that when the invasion started, Eastern Ukraine had been in a civil war with Western Ukraine for almost a decade, and some in Eastern Ukraine had for years pleaded Russia to intervene. Eastern Ukraine is a very different situation from Western Ukraine. Russia had almost no issues when it โinvadedโ Crimea in 2014, because most of the people were glad to no longer be ruled by the Banderite coup government. They were right, too, because they didnโt suffer nine years of fascist paramilitary terrorism like their northern neighbors in Eastern Ukraine did.
As I said, revanchism isnโt what this was ever about, despite what Western states publicly claim and Western media repeat. Russia would piss off its allies and its enemies if it invaded another country, and its enemies would probably ramp up their war machines against it significantly.
AppleTea
in reply to Pilferjinx • • •The stated goal of the US State Department is to drag out the conflict for as long as possible. Years ago, Boris Johnson threatened to cut Ukraine out of financial markets if Zelenskyy held peace talks with Russia.
There's a group that wants as much suffering as possible out of this war. But it's not the people who recognize that being the proxy in a struggle between the US and Russia is only going to hurt the people of Ukraine.
Pilferjinx
in reply to AppleTea • • •AbsentBird
in reply to AppleTea • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to AbsentBird • • •AbsentBird
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •What do they gain by continuing the war?
It's hardly in Russia's interest for their sons to die, their equipment to explode, and their economy to crumble. It's self destructive, which it has in common with capitalism, but worse than that it's a genocide of the Ukrainian people.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to AbsentBird • • •krolden
in reply to ILikeBoobies • • •ILikeBoobies
in reply to krolden • • •Itโs about a super power trying to exploit a small country
Palestine isnโt leftist either but you will find people campaigning for the protection of their people
Sorgan71
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •deerdelighted
in reply to ๐ด hamid the villain [he/him] ๐ด • • •But unlike probably most people here on lemmy, if someone runs a business that's not completely out of control and has unionized employees, I don't think there's a problem with that.