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Hai spento
Scarabocchio dalla prima de @ilmanifesto, oggi in edicola.
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La Germania conferma ODF come standard obbligatorio
linuxeasy.org/la-germania-conf…
La Germania inserisce ODF come formato obbligatorio nel Deutschland‑Stack, confermando il ruolo centrale degli standard aperti.
L'articolo La Germania conferma ODF come standard obbligatorio proviene da Linux Easy.
E' vietato riprodurre questo
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Alle porte del Paradiso si sente una voce che urla a pieni polmoni: "Per Dio!!! Per la Madonna!!!"
Salta fuori San Giuseppe - incazzato come una jena - e dice: "Oh!?! Ma chi è?"
E la voce: "Postaaa!"
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Qualche giorno fa siamo stati ospiti di Radio Base Venezia!
Ai microfoni dell'Urlo, trasmissione condotta dal mitico Steve Giant, abbiamo raccontato di V.O.C.I e del nostro percorso.
Lanciando anche qualche idea per il futuro di Venezia e del Carnevale.
Sottoscrivi anche tu il manifesto su www.v-o-c-i.it
Intervento trasmesso dal vivo il giorno 12/03/2026
Ciao assieme a una cricca di Veneziani (di terra e di mare) stiamo facendo questa cosa..
Dateci un'occhiata e se volete farne parte fatemi un fischio
#venezia #mestre #vivaveneziaviva #mestrestateofmind
Riesci a immaginare una Venezia in cui musica, arti e socialità siano i cardini per migliorarne la vita, la sicurezza e l'economia? Bene, allora impegnamo...VOCI - Venezia Operatori Culturali Insieme
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Maeve, Get_Off_My_WLAN, aramis87, irelephant, thisisbutaname, FerretyFever0, wildncrazyguy138, Lasslinthar, eutampieri, Rozaŭtuno, adhocfungus, copymyjalopy e Nobilmantis like this.
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Spanish bound4blue has installed the first eSAIL units on the first of five tankers owned by Danish Maersk Tankers.Nadja Skopljak (Offshore Energy)
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Ok sorry I will be that guy.
At the outset, let me say renewables are the end goal and the best outcome.
That said there are a number of problems with this approach. This chart doesn't define what 40% it's talking about. Which is actually impossible because metrics in shipping are considered different for different types of ships and trade. I assume this map/post/thing about deadweight tons (DWT), which is the metric you judge liquid and sold bulk goods. For containers it's TEU (twenty foot equivalent units), for offshore vessels it is often but not always bollard pull, for cruise ships its passenger to crew ratio, etc.
Also the original poster may be referring to total tonnage by metric X (dwt, displacement, raw number of ships) or some other unknown metric)
But let's assume this is a good faith argument. In terms of bulk commodities, it is probably true that nearly half the fleet by deadweight is shipping coal, crude, refined products, LNG/LPG. But that is an effect of the size of ships one uses to transport such commodities - they are always very big ships even though there are far more many smaller ships in terms of raw numbers.
And in any case the problem is demand. If people want cheap shit from China and cheap oil from the Gulf, someone is going to ship it. Renewables are the way forward, but if you want to transport a lot of stuff or a lot of people that you cannot transport by rail, planes and ships are the answer. No other source has the energy density of petroleum to ship stuff.
Somewhat ironically, per ton-mile (i.e., how much stuff you can carry per mile), shipping is by FAR the most efficient way in terms of energy consumed. The pollution from ships is horrible, even changing certain weather patterns in the N Pacific, but as long as we have the demand, it will exist.
40% of 60% of all current ships is still a lot less than 40% of 100% of all current ships.
Also there are sail assisted cargo vessels.
Needless to say, there is a lot of room for easy, quick, and achievable today improvement.
After six months sailing around the world, the numbers are in for the retrofitted ‘Pyxis Ocean.’Andrew Paul (Popular Science)
They did not mean the ships become green energy ship, they meant the ships would no longet be sailing at all because we don't need to ship the coal etc.
Also, brrak the larger ships down into several sailing ships. Infinite small sailing ships would be more green than one large fuel burning ship.
Infinite small sailing ships
And infinite small sailing ships could all simulatenously dock at our fractal infinitely long shorelines, all unloading their infinitely small cargo at the same instant, simultanously flooding the earth with infinite amounts of oil and zero amounts of oil that we wouldn't notice at all. 😀
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Inb4
Please think of the Poor Freight Captains and tHe eCoNoMy
tHe eCoNoMy
funnily enough renewable energy is probably gonna be the biggest driver of the economy in the next 10 years or so, considering that a lot of new infrastructure has to be built for it and they will generate a lot of power to drive further manufacturing.
Well, the average deck hand can stay working at the normal ships that are shipping other stuff.
The above average ones can become a deck hand for the newer vehicles for deep sea operations.
Both are probably already paid low enough that corporate can easily pay them while reducing shipping rates at the same time.
I’m thinking the deep sea exploration pays a bit more than a guy who can hook some cables on a crate.
But wtf do I know…
seamen’s
What kind of abomination is this?
Unless it's officially propped up by governments at the behest of rich and powerful fossil fuel lobbies!
It's inevitable that it will end some day, but not nearly as fast as it otherwise organically would.
The big costs comes from building the infrastructure for fossil fuels. So as soon as demand falls, you have a huge part of the bill has been paid already. So you get low fossil fuel prices. You need to keep in mind that most large oil producers are state owned. Therefore those states will try to shut down other suppliers production.
You can see that already with sanctions against Russia and Iran to keep US oil producers going strong.
Yes, thats assumed. However we are taking into account that machinery rusts away quickly. If you stop one refinery for example, that's not a smooth change, its an abrupt step. If we stay steady below the usual high, then trying to come back will be expensive. For that reason we'll see the price increase slowly...you need the fuel, so its a seller's market, they need to get paid as if their load was double in case they need to double. At some point it might drop a bit until it becomes a luxury item.
Here's an example where the price is going up became the supply keeps dropping and the demand keeps increasing regardless of the supply situation:
The same would happen to ice cars. People still want to use them if they have them, but the market keeps shrinking.
in the US i found figures ranging from 6 to 12% the largest sector by usage is road traffic using ~45% of the oil in us
here's a chart for EU
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Imagine not having to rely on countries to pump up oil and polluting the earth by burning it.
We have the technology, but for some reason we want to rely on some other party and pay tons of money.
If the post is even accurate, that likely doesn't factor in secondary needs. Roads, tires, shampoo, soap, lubricants, hydrogen, solvents, medical plastics. So many things made from oil and oil byproducts.
All of these industries have to be looking into alternatives in parallel, if they are even aware.
The vast majority of oil and gas consumption is just burning the shit in a pile
The oil companies want you to think about plastics to make you think all the oil we drill is important, but it's actually only a tiny fraction. It's all propaganda.
There is indeed propaganda going on, but there is also a reality that many supply chains need conversion, and that money needs to come from somewhere. Not saying it is right, nor that it is unsolvable, just a reality. Most often, the smaller businesses are destroyed by expensive switches to new methods. Which is all we need, more megacorps owning everything.
In a world with functioning governments, processes, grants, tax breaks, and such could be set up to help companies switch.
Asphalt for pavement and shingles is amaong the most recycled materials on the planet.
Soap and shampoo can be made from animal fat or vegetable oil.
Hydrogen can be made from water. You get oxygen too.
These are not unsolveable problems.
Asphalt for pavement and shingles is amaong the most recycled materials on the planet.
Not how you think. The asphalt is ground up for the mineral content then mixed with new bitumen.
Soap and shampoo can be made from animal fat or vegetable oil.
Most of it is. Cheapest way to do it.
Hydrogen can be made from water. You get oxygen too.
By wasting a lot of electricity.
Hydrogen can be made from water. You get oxygen too.By wasting a lot of electricity.
Just curious, how is the majority of hydrogen produced/mined/farmed now?
I kinda always assumed it was electrolysis just because the process is so simple.
Whoa, seriously? Okay that's awesome to know. And pretty cool.
-- Frost
I mean, yeah, lots of things are possible.
Whether or not they are economically feasible with current tech is a different question.
Given that oil-based fuel still exists, there's no reason for anybody to try to actually create a feasible, sustainable, scalable process to do such a thing.
It was literally the byproduct of fuel production. They had to find uses for it and created the petrochemical revolution.
The issue was we already had ways of making all our products without petroleum byproducts. They also didn't cause cancer which is kind of nice.
All of these industries have to be looking into alternatives in parallel, if they are even aware.
Why?
I mean, I think it would be good, but why would they have to be looking into alternatives? Why couldn't we phase out fossil fuels for burning purposes, and then whenever that's done start thinking about phasing them out for use in other products?
Plastics are a waste product of converting oil to useful fuels. That's why they're so cheap and used in the most unbelievably wasteful ways. They'll remain inextricably linked. Fuel is expensive, plastics are incredibly cheap. If we ban the use of fossil fuels but still rely on oil based plastics, plastics will become very expensive and we'll still be creating the fuel. We'll just have a growing supply of worthless energy sitting around and decaying in storage.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea as I'm not an expert by any means, but to keep plastics for essential uses like in medicine will likely require a heavily subsidized plastic industry at least. But hey we already subsidize the fossil fuel industry directly and by externalizing the planet destroying effects of their use...
plastics will become very expensive
Which will mean people will switch to cheaper alternatives whenever possible.
So many things made from oil and oil byproducts.
if i remember correctly, 97% of fossil fuels are actually used to generate energy from it, and only around 3% are used as material, i.e. turned into plastic and such.
Also, the top energy reserves by company in the world are 5 Chinese silicon producers. 17 m² of high-efficiency solar panels (approx. 100-200 kg total) can produce the same amount of electricity in a year as one barrel of oil (135kg), and they will continue producing for 25+ years.
In these times, having solar is immunity from geopolitical extortion that applies to those dependent on feeding dinosaurs into their energy furnaces.
In the US, we use a lot of prime farmland to grow corn that we turn into ethanol - 30,000,000 acres. Thirty million acres!
That ethanol is combined with gas (making the gas less efficient, by the way) and powers our cars in the US.
If you look at the number of miles the ethanol powers in the US, and calculate how many acres of solar we'd need to power electric cars to go that number of miles, we'd need to convert less than a quarter of a million of those acres to solar. So let's round up from 214,000 acres to the 250,000 because... inefficiencies, or whatever.
So we could gain 29,750,000 acres of land to grow more food or whatever and stop growing corn to turn into ethanol just to burn it in our cars.
For that matter, if we wanted to use that ethanol land (JUST the land we're using for ethanol) to power ALL cars in the US, switching everyone over to electric, it would only take about two million acres. Sure, 2,000,000 acres is a lot, but that would still be freeing up TWENTY EIGHT MILLION ACRES of land we're using JUST to grow corn we turn into ethanol.
It does ignore anything like the chaos of forcing everyone to buy a new electric car, setting that infrastructure up - I'm not saying this would be easy, but it is stunning how much land we could stop abusing to grow corn to burn in our cars.
In the US, we use a lot of prime farmland to grow corn that we turn into ethanol - 30,000,000 acres. Thirty million acres!
not actually true. This is oil and gas propaganda.
Most of the corn grown in the US is not edible. Barely 1.5%. Most of it is grown for sugars, oils and other industrial processes.
Most of the corn grown in the US is not edible. Barely 1.5%. Most of it is grown for sugars, oils and other industrial processes.
not actually true. This is oil and sugar propaganda.
Most of the corn grown in the US is grass. 100% of it, in fact. Soybeans make up a large percentage of animal feed.
Most of the corn grown in the US is grass.
....grass? you mean feed?
or do you mean maise technically being a grass, but having diverged greatly from it's original form via agricultural selection?
if that's the case, when you say most, what's the remainder then?
Bypassing the question of whether sugars and oils are edible (?), field corn is perfectly edible for humans. Field corn isn't sweet corn, and doesn't taste good as a vegetable. But we can eat it the same way most people throughout history have eaten corn - as a staple crop, as a grain like wheat, as corn flour, cornmeal, grits, parched corn, hominy, maza, etc, etc. We just choose not to.
And calling opposition to ethanol "oil and gas propaganda" is ridiculous. Like the comment you responded to point it out, ethanol is sold mixed with gasoline. The industries are synergistic, not competitive. They have a common interest in promoting internal combustion engine vehicles and opposing EVs.
Mandating solar PV in all building codes nationwide, and incentivizing onshoring of all of the processes that go into manufacturing solar PV panels (including using trade protectionism practices such as tariffs AFTER WE ALREADY HAVE PROCESSING AND MANUFACTURING CAPABILITIES IN THE USA) will do wonders for helping average people transition away from fossil fuel Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) cars to EVs.
Many people who cry foul about EVs and renewables adding too much load to a grid that is too old and just can't handle it forget the main counter to disarm their arguments: colocating generation with utilization.
Having solar PV (and other renewable) generation closest to where that power wants to be used is the best for the grid infrastructure (maybe not the grid investors) because it reduces residential/commercial load while maintaining the needs of the original giga users of the grid: Industry.
There are solutions to SO many of today's problems. We just have politicians that are bought and sold by billionaires and their corporations who won't do the public's bidding. Voting progressive politicians in, and preferably ones who vocally claim they're Democratic Socialist or similar, is the strongest way we push back against Big Oil, Big Coal, Big Tech, and all the other mega industries.
If what you say is accurate, the other benefit would be that they wouldn't even need prime, fertile real estate.
They'd just need any space with good sun capture.
Theres a lot of misunderstanding going on here about both corn and solar power.
Corn is not something that requires ideal or fertile real estate. People imagine corn being grown in the stereotypical midwestern river-adjacent and particularly fertile type of places, like Iowa or Ohio or whatever. The reality is that modern corn production requires a shitload of artificial nitrogen fertilization, so the actual fertility of the land is virtually unimportant. Believe it or not, Texas is actually one of the most productive places for corn farming, and in particularly hot and arid areas where you wouldnt be farming much else. More like typical ranching land, not prime farming land.
Now with solar power, at the current levels of efficiency (and unlike corn), having a cloudy day is a major killer. UV intensity at high elevation can be virtually nothing when it gets a little cloudy. Whereas on a sunny say it would be extremely high. So you need ideally somewhere that is as high altitude as possible, but where it is also sunny almost all the time. There are not a lot of places that meet that description, and even the few places that do are largely very expensive to acquire land in because people want to build houses and hotels and golf courses and whatever else in (or adjacent to) the mountains. Take Pueblo, CO, for example. It’s one of the solar hubs of the US. But its difficult to expand from there because you can either go east, down in elevation, and increase the number of cloudy days. Or you can try to go west and everything becomes exponentially more expensive the closer you get to the Rockies.
More importantly though, corn and solar production necessitate two completely different environments. No one is growing corn in Pueblo, and you wont find many solar fields in places where corn is grown effectively. Because a lot of the time people grow corn where it rains often, therefore those places have many more cloudy days in a year. Realistically you cant just take corn fields and turn them into solar fields
If this is true then solar dominance would be very efficient for our society in your's and op's description because in this scenario, corn will still always be grown.. however, it would be marginalized to its regions that can only grow corn as you described.
I think that's what you was coveying.
So we could gain 29,750,000 acres of land to grow more food or whatever and stop growing corn to turn into ethanol just to burn it in our cars.
What if there is another potato famine, (added: another potato destroying mold)? That corn creates food security because it can always be used as food while the ethanol is replaced with petrol.
Corn grown for ethanol would not help in a food shortage, so for the idea of a food shortage, it is.......... not helpful.
We have plenty of land not being used right now that could be used to grow food.
But we don't have a shortage of food. We have food being wasted and thrown away. We have plenty of excess food. This is like being worried about your driveway taking up valuable lawn space. It's...... not.
would not help in a food shortage
Others have pointed out that it can be eaten as staple food.
We have plenty of land not being used right now
Land doesn't help if there is no food.
But we don’t have a shortage of food.
A reserve is for out of ordinary situations.
You can also scour the ground for pennies just in case you run out of money, too. It'll technically bring in more money than you had before.
You could also keep a stash of aluminum cans to turn in for money as well in case you run out of money.
But the amounts of help these things would do is so incredibly minimal that there are much better uses of your time.
Yes. Technically. Growing less than one percent of the land we grow for ethanol corn would mean that extra less than one percent of corn we really don't want to eat JUST IN CASE we needed that last tiny bit.
We could also easily open far more than that in farmland and grow other crops that are more edible first.
But yes, technically, we could grow food we neither want nor need.
Are you happy now?
I am sorry but I am not happy.
Yes. Technically. Growing less than one percent of the land we grow for ethanol
It was 30%.It could be used otherwise if we used elecrric cars but that wouldn't create food security.
JUST IN CASE we needed
Well, not starving to death is a reasonable cause to do something.
We could also easily open far more than that in farmland and grow other crops
Then there is other surplus food that has to be thrown away, or also be turned into ethanol.
technically, we could grow food we neither want nor need.
For food it's worth having a surplus. The bad part is that food is turned into ethanol while people starve to death.
We do not fucking need that land for food. There is no shortage of food. Nobody is fucking starving due to a lack of food. There is a lack of distribution, yes. But not a fucking lack of food.
Furthermore, converting 250k acres of that corn that we are NOT FUCKING EATING BECAUSE IT IS BEING USED FOR ETHANOL into solar that powers cars instead would ALLOW US TO GAIN ALMOST 30,000,000 ACRES OF LAND TO GROW FOOD.
Food that we do not fucking need in the first place.
Jesus fucking christ.
Have a nice day. I'm done. Goodbye.
I meant to say that the problem could be another potato destroing mold. The famine could be avoided by switching to ethanol corn.
Not growing that corn would lead to the same result as exporting it.
Some ships would carry ammonia, hydrogen, etc.
Still better than the status quo.
Some ships would carry ammonia, hydrogen, etc.
there's already a movement to change over to ammonia for fueling shipping. I don't have a good feel for the benefits and drawbacks but it is out there.
news.mit.edu/2025/unlocking-am…
Founded by four MIT alumni, Amogy is offering ammonia-cracking and ammonia-to-power systems for industries like maritime shipping, power generation, manufacturing, and more.MIT News | Massachusetts Institute of Technology
sounds awfully good. almost too good.
ugh
Offshore wind and onshore solar excess can be used to produce hydrogen, not coal.
It takes extra steps and introduces inefficiencies, but it is able to store larger amounts of energy than batteries, and can be used in certain industrial processes which do not run on wires and electrons.
In a succesfully electrified world, it is likely that some ammonia and hydrogen is shipped around the world for such use cases. The main alternative is to keep using fossils.
not just that but that's millions of jobs worldwide lost.
had we started moving to renewables 40 years ago, like we should have, the impact wouldn't be as bad now.
let's assume worldwide shipping creates enough jobs for 1% of the world's population. that's 70,000,000 jobs.
if half of those jobs (35,000,000) just poofed out overnight, what would be the global climate impacts after 6-8 months?
I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be positive.
edit: sorry, didn't realize I was on a slrpnk instance where emotions outrank logic.
We lived for millions of years without jobs. We'd be fine. In fact, We'd replace those jobs with jobs in renewable energy sectors.
Its insane to me that people argue that we should continue accelerating climate change which will kill far more people and cost more money than what we would make addressing and mitigation it.
But that would get in the way of your dumbass argument wouldn't it?
Not wind with sodium ion batteries.
EDIT: Source
EDIT: This comment is based on outdated information (see the below thread). A growing number of wind turbines are switching from electromagnets to permanent magnets, the latter of which use rare earth minerals. You could still make wind turbines with electromagnets, but that does likely give countries with rare earth minerals a competitive advantage.
What is the generator made of?
Batteries aren't an energy source but a storage.
Apprently my information is outdated. For a long time, wind turbines used electromagnets (the fact check is from 2016), but it looks like they are starting to use permanent magnets now (which require rare earths). They still don’t need them, and I think a lot of the ones using permanent magnets are from countries which have rare earths, but I will update my initial comment since I don’t want to move the goalposts.
In any case, there is a commenter above that mentioned solar, which according to my link does not need rare earth minerals.
I think the world bank report is a good read, regardless.
Look, you’re not thinking about the shareholders. I NEED YOU to think about the shareholders! How will they ever make their billions? You selfish bastard!
/s just in case.
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It's the rocket ship problem.
You need fuel to move the fuel that moves the fuel that moves the rocket
induction roadways
Do you mean railways?
No.
Here, let me DDG two words for you: enrx.com/en/Induction-Applicat…
Wireless inductive charging for continuous transfer of energy to road networks.www.enrx.com
This would be incredibly energy inefficient first of all, because a lit of energy gets lost when using induction and that rises really quickly with the distance from the source.
Second of all, that would be really expensive to build.
Third of all, this doesn't solve the real problem of individualized travel. Cars are really inefficient, becuase: 1. Their infrastructure wastes a lot of space. Most people travel alone in their cars, which means, you have all this sourounding machinery you need to transport in addition, which is huge. Cars get into traffic jams, so the city decides to widen the rode. This moves the whole city further appart, which means people need the car more often, which means there are more traffic jams.
2. They are hugely energy inefficient, because (as said before), you need to move the whole car around just to transport one person
3. They are the most dangerous mode of travel and most often endanger bike drivers or pedestrians.
4. They are loud and stink
You could solve most of these problems with proper public transport. These "futuristic" ideas, like inductive roads or Musks Hyperloop are just a way for big companies to direct funding and attention away from public transport.
OK, well there's a lot of engineers and scientists that you'll have to find and explain how wrong they are. I wasn't inventing induction roadways in my head, they're a real thing and showing a lot of success for use cases like the trucking industry and use on highways where cars travel at speed most of the time.
If we could power vehicles on negativity and dismissiveness of electrifying fossil fuel infrastructure until everyone got the exact solution they wanted, we could all drive to the moon and back.
insideevs.com/news/777157/wire…
prima.ca/en/project/inductive-…
enrx.com/en/Company/Media/News…
en.newsroom.vinci-concessions.…
sciencedirect.com/science/arti…
newatlas.com/automotive/electr…
Tucking in behind a heavy truck as it crawls along the highway could soon be quite an attractive option for EV drivers. Early results from a wireless charging pilot show the technology capable of transferring "more than 300 kW of instantaneous power.Paul Ridden (New Atlas)
The thing is, we already have the solution though. It's public transport. Railways can also be used to transport cargo. For longer routes you can still use ships.
Your solution is the unrealistic one. Because we would have to invest an insane amount of money into that infrastructure. We could invest a fraction if that into public transport and we would be so much better off.
I don't care how many scientists agree with you. Just think critically for like 10 seconds about this. How would this really improve anything over public transport?
Also there are a lot if scientists agreeing with me, so...
I think you're assuming everyone lives in an urban setting or a developed Western European country where trains are already present. That is not the case for a significant number of people, like it or not. it is not a one-size-fits-all solution, and certainly not a bridge to ease people off of fossil fuels.
My parents live 2 hours from a large city, and 30 miles outside of a small town, the last 2 miles of which are a dirt road. What, exactly, form of public transport should I take from the airport to their house? A series of busses and then walk 2 miles? How would THEY get to the store? How should they buy and get food to their small farm? On a bus?
Since you're awake, you're likely in the same time zone as I am, or close enough. Are there not isolated villages and communities where you live where 100 or fewer people aren't worth a bus going by every 45 minutes, just in case?
China is actually one of the very few countries meeting its commitments so far. They're even a bit ahead of schedule: renewable and nuclear power plants, fleet electrification (cars and trucks, plus advanced railways), planting large forests, etc.
Granted that won't be sufficient, they should do more and faster, and they now see coming issues with the degradation of their soils and their water resources. But during that same time period, western countries rolled back environment policies and came back on their promises, going further and further away from adverting a catastrophe.
Not to mention all the fossil fuel used to build the ships in the first place.
There's a lot of fossil fuel burned before that steel arrives at the shipyard.
Burn oil to pump oil
Burn oil to refine oil
Burn oil to ship oil
So we can burn oil at home.
cook oil to make plastic/chemicals
dump plastic/chemicals in the ocean
Beneath the ocean’s surface, bacteria have evolved specialized enzymes that can digest PET plastic, the material used in bottles and clothes.ScienceDaily
We're happy to announce a long-term partnership with Motorola. We're collaborating on future devices meeting our privacy and security standards with official GrapheneOS support.
motorolanews.com/motorola-thre…
Motorola announces three new B2B solutions at MWC 2026, including GrapheneOS partnership, Moto Analytics and more.marreroc (Motorola's Official Global Blog)
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@publicvoit @lunareclipse @a53bdb Kind of depends on whether you count "cheap electronics that don't really need to call home or shouldn't but still do".
There's a whole lot of them and they routinely get compromised and added to botnets later in their lifecycle.
@JamesDBartlett3 @lispi314 @a53bdb @lunareclipse I agree.
I consider the USA as the premium example for the latter. 😉
@a53bdb To be fair, all phones are made there so that risk always exists anyway.
As long as GrapheneOS doesn't slack on their requirements including (but not limited to) being able to access low level stuff it shouldn't be much worse if you flash the phone yourself. And those kind of requirements are why Pixels where the only ones supported to begin with...
@joonq @a53bdb
Sorry, but despite US offices and staff, the company is 100% Chinese.
Here is why:
-> Acquisition: Bought Motorola from Google in 2014 for $2.91B.
-> Headquarters: Global HQ is in Beijing.
-> Shareholders: Parent company Legend Holdings is Chinese.
-> Leadership: CEO Yang Yuanqing is Chinese.
-> Origins: Born from a state-owned research institute.
What might be cause for concern is if the ‘blond’ driving the world crazy were to target Motorola or Lenovo, causing them to pull out of the US market, or if, like Huawei, they were to have Android stripped away from them. At that point, they might decide on one of two things: either ‘steal’ the GrapheneOS technology, or strengthen their partnership with Graphene and make Graphene the primary software for Motorola/Lenovo. It could be an interesting development, but I imagine it would be stressful for the creators of Graphene
@anon_4601 @joonq @a53bdb Lenovo is a publicly traded company with 31% of the shares are owned by Legend Holdings.
Legend Holdings is a publicly traded company with 29% of the shares owned by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
That works out to the Chinese Academy of Sciences owning around 9% of Lenovo. They're far from owning the majority of it.
We're continuing to support Pixels which are the only Android devices from a major OEM based in the US. Smaller brands are white labelled ODM phones.
Tell them to fix the misspelled "GrapehenOS" tag at the bottom of their article. 😀
...unless there actually are some grape hens in the pipeline. Hey, no kink shaming!
EDIT: Looks like it's fixed as of now.
Please try to get a mid-range phone also supported.
Pixel a series at least in Germany is basically thrown after people having a phone included in their mobile network contract, so you can get a current a series half a year after release for 300 € in Germany. Considering the remaining 6.5 years of support by Google, this is an insanely good price for a long lasting and secure phone.
This is great news.
I hope there will be a Pixel 9 Pro form factor equivalent as well (the Signature is a bit larger than I like).
But primarily I hope this will secure funding and development for GrapheneOS.
Well done and congratulations!
@lumi GrapheneOS is based on the Android Open Source Project which doesn't have Google apps and doesn't use their regular services. It only uses Google as a provider for very basic standard services which we replaced in GrapheneOS.
The purpose of GrapheneOS isn't specifically avoiding Google apps and services but rather providing a high level of privacy and security in general. Using Pixels is not in any way counter to our goals. We want official OEM support, lower level hardening, etc. though.
TL;DR: Yes.
Well, as degoogled as using an OS maintained by Google gets
yeah, ofc the end goal is using a proper linux phone, to get maximal freedom and security
but having a degoogled android device is a step along the way. though i have been stuck at that step since around 2014
Where's the application sandboxing, memory safe languages, modern exploit protections, deep integration of powerful hardware-based security features and everything else we focus on in GrapheneOS?
Aside from any of that, the concept that the Android Open Source Project isn't a Linux distribution is wrong. Linux isn't the userspace software that's largely portable to other operating systems. There was a Debian variant using the FreeBSD kernel which is clearly not Linux.
let me disagree here. Android is fork of Linux.
Fork with huge change-set - hard to review.
With drivers written to "get to market fast", not quality.
With other closed drivers in userspace to avoid open sourcing.
Naaaah, this ain't Linux I'm running on my laptop.
I won't argue — security features of AOSP may be superior. But what runs beneath these features isn't!
> let me disagree here
Okay, but you're objectively wrong.
> Android is fork of Linux.
No, Android isn't a fork of Linux. Android works fine with mainline, stable and longterm Linux kernels from kernel.org. It doesn't have any required downstream patch set.
> Fork with huge change-set - hard to review.
It's not a fork and has no required changes to the kernel.
> With drivers written to "get to market fast", not quality.
Hardware vendor drivers aren't Android.
> With other closed drivers in userspace to avoid open sourcing.
That's not part of Android and is in no way required to use it. Desktop Linux distributions ported to the same hardware nearly entirely relying on the same drivers regardless.
> I won't argue
You're just making objectively inaccurate claims to promote massively rolling back privacy and security by moving to legacy desktop software. Replacing vendor drivers has nothing to do with that whatsoever.
> No, Android isn't a fork of Linux. Android works fine with mainline, stable and longterm Linux kernels from kernel.org. It doesn't have any required downstream patch set.
Show me one vendor of phone shipping clean kernel. One.
Hardware vendor drivers are part of Linux I use, are you implying Android != Linux? 😉
@lumi @alexia The current default software stack for desktop Linux is kind of terrible and the lack of coherent threat model or proper ecosystem of sandboxed applications are major issues with desktop right now. What I am still questioning is whether it is even possible to make a proper competitor to ChromeOS (if we ignore the hardware insecurity of basically all PCs).
So example software choices:
systemd -> dinit or s6
sudo -> s6-sudo (setuidless)
glibc -> muslc
glibc malloc or jemalloc -> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure (which supports more CPU architectures)
bubblewrap (sandbox used by Flatpak) -> #syd (it's written in Rust, has many important exploit protections, and can even be the user login: gitlab.exherbo.org/sydbox/sydb…)
GNOME or KDE -> XFCE (when their new Rust Wayland native WM is finished)
gnutils -> *BSD or uutils
The issue of course with most of these alternatives is that they are separate projects and therefore dont have the same goals, methods, or threat models. Also most of these projects are written in C which does not help at all. Also there is of course the lack of a proper chain of trust from the hardware to loading the kernel and userspace.
It may just not be reasonably possible to provide a alternative without millions of dollars of funding and a decade of development. It would be nice for there to be an alternative to AOSP/ChromeOS or even MacOS for desktop computing which actually takes security seriously. It doesnt even need to have be completely on par when it comes to security, just do better than current Linux distros (not a very high bar).
What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
> systemd -> dinit or s6
Lots of these are giving up even more security features.
> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure
These aren't the same classes of allocators at all. Neither the musl malloc or mimalloc is a hardened allocator. mimalloc is performance focused and musl's is focused on low memory usage.
> What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
What about when IBM decides to kill systemd, GCC and GNOME?
What about when IBM decides to kill systemd, GCC and GNOME?systemd
Between GNU Shepherd, supervise-daemon and runit? 
GCC
You'll have to explain why/how IBM owns GCC. Fairly sure it's an actual FSF project. 
GNOME?
RIP lol 
Other than the accessibility stuff most of it I don't care much about, and with the ensloppification going on & Red Hat apparently insisting on it, it might well die anyway.
What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
This however has real chances of happening and already has a largely closed development process with no community.
Which means it doesn't even need a poison pill contributor agreement, all the necessary rights are probably already in Google's possession for malicious license changes.
Not to mention that the main useful part of Android, the drivers & their documentation, aren't even included anyway. Everything else could be replaced by something better with some work.
@King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi You know, if you're just going to avoid the question you could simply not answer that post, like you did with my mobile modem isolation question.
The overwhelming majority of the BSD tooling that isn't systemd could be ported with a modest effort if systemd died. Note that I linked daemon supervisors earlier, because session managers and init systems are a lot easier to come by.
edit: Ah, my bad, I confused the subthread. You did ignore it and replied to the prior post.
@lispi314 @King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi
> You know, if you're just going to avoid the question you could simply not answer that post, like you did with my mobile modem isolation question.
Don't know what you're talking about. You're one of hundreds of people.
> The overwhelming majority of the BSD tooling
It has little to do with the desktop software stack. That increasingly only has an incomplete port over to BSD with a growing amount of hacks. It would just roll it back even further.
From what I've heard none of the 2026 devices from Moto made the cut.
This deserves a "GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!"
Also, will it be possible to load Graphene on my own? In case Motorola pushes some bloatware I don't want 😁
finally no more 23W max charging speed and pixel errors (literally lol). Hoped for Nothing/CMF because of their awesome techy Designs and they are europe based but i guess Motorola was nice in the past atleast.
Oh and dont forget that overheating issues when charging or doing stuff, especially in summer.
Also if you have a protective case, stickers and privacy screen protector it heats up even more and charging speed drops to 3W or even less. Pixel 8 is not great except the camera
please comment on this
According to publications in Israeli media from December 2023, the Motorola smartphone devices have been used by the Israeli military in fighting inside the Gaza Strip.
very cool news!💙
i'm shopping for my next phone & looking for an OS OS - Open Source Operating System. The article doesn't mention when the GrapheneOS Motorola phones come out
When will they be on the market?
i have the incredible LG ThinQ Dual Screen (technically tri-screen) which is hands down the coolest phone EVER, but LG stopped making phones
i'd like to see the foldable #Motorola in #GrapheneOS
btw, anyone know how to abbreviate Open Source Operating System? 🤔
You can't even abbreviate one bc then it looks like it's just the abbrev
Open Source OS
OS Operating System
o/s OS?
Ooohhh...that is promissing news!!!
My first phone ever was a Motorolla.
If they provide official Custom Rom options: i am so in!
@Brokar
It looks like motorola could show itself and sell "secure entrprise grade" cellphones.
Which deciders could enforce employee to use as their authenticator or a small computer that doesn't leak internal company data.
I see value there. It's the same customer target as thinkpad
Google's announced destruction of android except as completely controlled by google has shocked us, and reduced independent app makers, secure phone makers to writing begging letters to billionaires.
Lenovo, laptop king who also sells those laptops cheaper without Windows, using linux, is PARTNERING to sell a LINUX PHONE!
Lenovo sells phones under the Motorola brand name. (Lenovo brand phones sound more marketable)
This FANTASTIC news, express interest, build this. Buy one soon
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@ferricoxide @luana No, it's a much different feature than the incomplete implementation for desktops. The entirely of the firmware and operating system are cryptographically verified with downgrade protection. The secure element is used to store the version metadata for downgrade protection for the OS and efuses are used for the firmware portion of it. It's fully integrated with the A/B update system with automatic rollback until reaching the home screen successfully.
grapheneos.org/install/web#ver…
Web-based installer for GrapheneOS, a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility.GrapheneOS
@dalias @luana Our hardware requirements include supporting using verified boot and other features with non-GrapheneOS operating systems too:
grapheneos.org/faq#future-devi…
> Verified boot key fingerprint for yellow boot state displayed with a secure hash (non-truncated SHA-256 or better)
That applies even if the device has official GrapheneOS support with green verified boot state. Green verified boot state isn't mandatory of course but we'd like to have it. It could differentiate with a better UI.
Answers to frequently asked questions about GrapheneOS.GrapheneOS
@luana Yes, that's part of our hardware requirements:
grapheneos.org/faq#future-devi…
Whether they'll be sold at retail with GrapheneOS preinstalled as an option isn't a question we can answer yet. It mostly comes down to Google's requirements and the extent to which those can be worked around or pushed to be relaxed.
Answers to frequently asked questions about GrapheneOS.GrapheneOS
Brilliant 👍
When can I buy one in the UK?
It's not hardware that interacts with software that concerns me. I'm talking about hardware with it's own firmware that is capable of capturing data and sending it without the OS even being aware. I wish I could remember the model or find the article but a year or so ago I read that an android phone model was found to be communicating with networks even while the phone was powered off.
To be clear, it's not that I don't trust you. I just have a hard time trusting huge corporations who have no opposition to the current US administration especially when they are part of a specific industry that heavily tries to dictate what you can and can't do on your phone.
I'm not trying to downplay how huge of a deal this is and it is exciting but I an concerned as well and I think it's important to make that fear known.
@greenpete @joe9nf
: with all the split and sell-off, which motorola are we talking about?
The one sold to Google? The lenovo division? Another entity?
They say that they can't support Fairphone hardware unfortunately. I'm using a FP4 with Lineage now and I love it. User replaceable parts and a swappable battery.
I always hope Graphene and Fairphone would work something out because I've always thought they compliment each other well.
But also I'd rather give FP my money than Motorola
Man this post rubs me the wrong way. You ignore the main point I'm raising only to go on a rant telling me I'm using an extremely insecure device and actually attacking the manufacturer because of something someone else did (and to be clear you'll never hear me defend e/OS which is what I'm assuming you're referring to)
Let's be clear that you just tossed a company under the bus which is exactly what you were complaining about someone else doing to you. Is this about being right or doing what's right because those two things aren't always the same.
The e/OS thing was quite a while ago... At some point you are going to have to move on.
@greenpete @joe9nf
I don't care! I care what you are doing.
The obsession with what someone else is saying about you quite literally frightens me about what you are doing. It's almost like a misdirection.
Also, archive.is has been caught DDoSing via their captcha and I believe there is at least some suspicion about ties to Russia. They've also been changing some text in their archives. arstechnica.com/tech-policy/20…
DDoS hit blog that tried to uncover Archive.today founder's identity in 2023.Jon Brodkin (Ars Technica)
I didn't even bring e/OS up until you did. I hate e/OS... It's why my US bought FP uses Lineage now.
I've read all the stuff and e/OS.... You've literally blasted me with it again and still haven't set me at ease with what YOU are doing. I'm not looking for a fight... I'm looking for answers that have NOTHING to do with Fairphone or e/OS
Oh, my bad... You deleted your entire tirade so that others wouldn't see it
techhub.social/@bobkmertz/1161…
It's not hardware that interacts with software that concerns me. I'm talking about hardware with it's own firmware that is capable of capturing data and sending it without the OS even being aware. I wish I could remember the model or find the article but a year or so ago I read that an android phone model was found to be communicating with networks even while the phone was powered off.To be clear, it's not that I don't trust you. I just have a hard time trusting huge corporations who have no opposition to the current US administration especially when they are part of a specific industry that heavily tries to dictate what you can and can't do on your phone.
I'm not trying to downplay how huge of a deal this is and it is exciting but I an concerned as well and I think it's important to make that fear known.
@greenpete @joe9nf
Where did I attack you? Someone else mentioned Fairphone and I said that you previously said you wouldn't support them.... Then you turned the hose on me complaining about Murena. I didn't even bring it up at all. And yes, I said you were being obsessive and that's apparently when you realized I was right and deleted all of your posts.
All I mentioned was my concern about *Motorola* potentially hiding a hardware device in the phone that the OS is unaware of.... Next thing I know you're yelling at me for using a Fairphone.
@greenpete @joe9nf
@lumi @navi > It takes 50 minutes to make a completely clean build of the OS on a $500 Ryzen 9950X gaming CPU. It then takes seconds to do incremental builds for nearly all changes. What's the issue with that and how is it appaling?
That's not 3 days. There's a mismatch here and I'm not sure of its source. Does GrapheneOS simply do it better?
> It takes far longer to build a modern web browser
The web browser ecosystem is also considered a disaster we should probably give up on entirely and cease using.
Using split-up protocols with open standards/specifications and Free Software clients for those things that have unwisely been conflated and bundled into browsers haphazardly (making them subject to a large number of questionable development practices in the doing).
i did not have access to a $500 cpu, specially not back in late-2019 which is when i did this -- my system had a 7th gen i7, 16 gigabytes of ram, and was running on an SATA SSD, all of which is still a reasonable mid-to-high gaming system now a days
note that since then, the requirements got worst: source.android.com/docs/setup/…
> At least 400 GB of free disk space to check out and build the code (250 GB to check out + 150 GB to build).
> A minimum of 64 GB of RAM. Google uses 72-core machines with 64 GB of RAM to build Android. With this hardware configuration, it takes approximately 40 minutes for a full build of Android and only a few minutes for incremental build of Android. By contrast, it takes approximately 6 hours for a full build with a 6-core machine with 64 GB of RAM.
like, ex-fucking-cuse me? 64 gigs of ram *minimum*?
google takes 40 minutes to build with a 72-core machine with 64 gigabytes of ram, now explain how are you hitting this perf on a 9950x
my current 6 core system with half as much ram (32 gigs) builds my whole gentoo system in about an hour (excluding web browsers and toolchains, since i doubt you're also building the whole NDK)
and at last, the point was about boostrapability, incremental builds do not help
> The GKI kernel doesn't contain SoC-specific or board-specific code.
😄 Are you making fun of me here or what's the goal here? Prove me you have right, even when obviously you don't have?
Linux kernel contains all SoC, board specific bits + drivers.
Let me translate for regular people: Google compiles minimal, itself not functional, Linux kernel core and then takes a glue (GKI) and put all the ugly stuff I mentioned in the first post it.....
> It takes over 32GB of memory to do a single production Linux kernel build for GrapheneOS because that's simply how much memory it takes to build the upstream kernel image with a very minimal configuration with LTO enabled
except not? i have built the linux kernel with less before, and it didn't take nearly as long -- not close to 3 days long as it took to attempt an aosp build on my old system back in 2019
and if 64 gigs takes 6 hours to build, any less would exponentially lengthen the build due to swapping and oom stalling, sure 64 gigs might not be the minimum but any less and you'd be spending days to build, which i did, which is unnacceptable
okay, sure, the help page is still about building for development though, so i assume, debug and without lto
meaning an actual optimized release build would be even worst than 6h on 64gb ram -- this does not help your point like you think it does
debug builds, with optimizations, is not only counter intuitive but also no your numbers don't add up
and even if they did, assuming a 9950X is a baseline is absurd and any normal system someone that isn't middle class from a first world country is going to be *far* from that metric
specially now
no, my family and friends growing up could not afford to think of "price over it's lifetime", what they could get were mid-range phones where anything with "pixel" on it were either not available in brasil, or prohibitively expensive for ~80% of the population
we could *not* afford to think in "years of support", we could not switch phones when support ended, 2 years of support? great, my friends would still be using their phones 5 years after that, and getting a new one only when that one broke
wake up to how people outside first world countries actually have to live, please
not to mention that a 8gb phone is plenty enough for basically anything except gaming
sure ignore the part where an 9950X or comparable, with enough ram, is not a baseline but a privilege
go on
@lumi @navi Yeah uh, have you heard of The Sam Vimes theory of socioeconomic unfairness, or Boots theory?
Because this is what's happening in reality. They can't pony up for the long-term more optimal economic choice in the first place.
again it does not, i do not require full LTO to have a functional "production" linux kernel, i can setup a new gentoo system from scratch on a way cheaper machine
honestly, i'm done -- you're so self centered that you attack those that like your work, because they have criticisms, you ignore what is convenient and pull unfair comparisons to have it look reasonable
other projects taking a shit load of resources to build, does not make aosp look better, it just makes the group as a whole look worse, two wrongs doesn't make a right
just, bye
> What explains this need to put things down because it's not glibc, systemd and GNOME?
all of those 3 projects are *constantly* criticized and put under scrutiny for their design choices, so, i have no idea what you mean by that
Nobody has attacked you. Conveying technical details is not self centered. By that logic, teachers and experts can never discuss their field with anyone without being self centered.
You liking GOSs work does not grant you a pass for anything. Part of GOSs work is this, refuting misinformation or correcting inaccuracies. You being upset with what the details are does not mean it is acceptable to attack and insult others.
i did not get attacked, someone else in the thread did
i did however, get my technical and socio-economical points completely handwaved away, over and over again, which is why i'm done with this thread
no, i did it once, because i was fed up of being redirected and brushed away
so, i am sorry for that -- it was wrong of me, but also i see that nothing i say will lead anything anywhere, so please untag me from now on
because a) you completely ignore anything else i say, including the two times i said that third world countries don't get pixel phones, specially not cheap ones, and b) because you said it yourself:
> > firstly, don’t see this as an attack on GrapheneOS
> Okay, but that's how we see it.
Literally. The double standard is ridiculous.
It's been years of GrapheneOS publicity/social media activity making the maintainers look self-centered and ignorant. I have to tell anyone I recommend GrapheneOS to not look at your social media activity. If you can't take criticism, how are you going to ensure security through peer reviews? How will users be able to trust your ability to work together to make secure software when this is how you treat people who disagree with you?
Stubborn, self-centered people are a risk factor in InfoSec because these attributes indicate closed-mindedness. You have to work on this if you want people to (continue to) trust you with this project.
— A concerned long-time GrapheneOS user
Sensitive content
@linux_is_best Motorola Signature (2026) is one rank ahead of the Pixel 10 Pro XL in dxomark.com/smartphones/ and has far better CPU and GPU performance via the 1 step from highest end Qualcomm SoC. The future devices we end up supporting have a high chance of using the highest end Qualcomm SoC.
It's not their ultra low-end budget devices which are being worked on. Their high end flagships for 2026 are close to meeting our requirements but not quite there yet so the next gen is what's relevant.
The DXOMARK scores in the rankings below reflect the device’s performance and the quality of the user experience.DXOMARK
When Motorola tells us they will provide X years of updates — let’s say, for argument’s sake, seven years — we will likely receive seven updates. We will lag behind on security updates for months. Bugs will be discovered, reported, and well documented, but never addressed. Most of their battery drain will come from their own bloated Motorola apps, and there will be many.
I wish you had chosen any other provider. Really — any.
@izzy Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 is currently the only SoC meeting our security requirements on paper and would need a LOT of work to meet them in practice. It has MTE support on paper but that's different from it being properly integrated and all the issues with it for broad usage in the kernel and userspace resolved.
MediaTek doesn't have everything we need and also has a very poor track record on security compared to Qualcomm. It wouldn't really be usable any time soon for GrapheneOS devices.
@izzy
It was your point that Motorola is the partner because they want to make money. If the people are only able to buy their phones after some others already did and now resell them, I don't See how they profit. People buying the high Ende devices for Graphene may exist AS well but in WhatsApo rate
@GOKUSHRM Our partnership is Motorola is not exclusive and we're fully allowed to partner with other OEMs. However, we don't currently have the resources to partner with additional OEMs and it will likely be a while before we do.
Partnerning to make smartphones with a company which recently discontinued their smartphones doesn't sound workable. The point is also mainly getting an OEM to raise their security to meet our requirements rather than getting an OEM to sell devices with GrapheneOS.
doing PGO on a development build (considering the guide is meant for developers) is insane IMO
that's something one would do on their final fully optimized build, not for development, and specially not if the need to debug anything in native code is there...
from what i recall in my encounters with googlers: it's pgo.
from my own experience on gentoo lto adds around 30% memory pressure and pgo adds around 50%, compile time is mostly unaffected with lto but pgo quadruples it.
parallel builds and LTO stuff, i assume
meaning you could run with less memory, by reducing the amount of parallel builds, except that would make the already long 6 hour build time increase close to exponentially
so 64 gb for 72 build processes doesn't seem super unnatural but 64 for 6 is weird.
it's probably fine with 8 to 16 on 6 core.
Answers to frequently asked questions about GrapheneOS.GrapheneOS
@bobkmertz @greenpete @joe9nf That was most likely the modem and in some early mobiles there was zero isolation preventing the modem from simply reading all the memory bus.
(The modem should be understood as a blackbox device at the mercy of hostile infrastructure providers & "authorities", it is attack surface.)
I would hope that such isolation is part of the GrapheneOS safety requirements.
I think flip times were fun, but are over. I also think we have so few resources and so much technical knowledge, that we should do the basic extremely well...
Apple [sic] does something like that when launching new ideas, and even with old ideas.
Minimalism means focus, means that fewer force results in greater pressure.
Lefa just make the best smartphone that most people use. Win the race. And then winner takes it all and can create stuff that nobody buys.
@GrapheneOS Go for it. You will succeed when there are, let's say, three phones from affordable to high range.
The future: When you are supporting a lot of Motos, integrate another brand (Asus?) and finally get rid of the Pixels. 😀
If they #Motorola could add #LoRa or something similar that could be a game changer.
They would offer something that other companies don't, while there is demand from users.
It also brings privacy advantages as it makes it easier to communicate undetected from cell towers. People are starting to roll out networks covering wide areas.
In addition to that, it adds an element of resilience where people could continue to communicate even when cell towers are shut down. This is especially important during national disasters and governments overreach shutting down internet access.
This is a premature joke for the 1. April, right? 😳🤔😂🤣
Choosing a company like Motorola with it's owner Lenovo behind it for the reasons of privacy and security isn't beyond a good idea but pure hypocrisy and a punch in the guts for all of the supporters of GrapheneOS in my opinion. 🖕
Greed ate brain, happened again it seems. 🤮
#GrapheneOS #Motorola #Lenovo #Privacy #Security #Hypocrisy #Joke
The point isn’t whether GrapheneOS receives money from Motorola.
The point is the consistency of the security and trust model you advocate! 🙄
GrapheneOS often emphasizes minimizing trust in large corporations, opaque supply chains, and potential state influence.
Yet Motorola is owned by Lenovo, a Chinese company operating under a legal environment where state access to companies can be mandated.
If the argument is that users should minimize trust and maximize verifiable security, partnering with an OEM embedded in that jurisdiction raises legitimate questions.
This isn’t about “greed” but about coherence of principles.
If Chinese OEM ownership is usually framed as a risk in privacy discussions, it seems inconsistent to dismiss those concerns when it becomes convenient for hardware support.
Criticism here isn’t hostility—it’s asking whether the same standards are being applied consistently. 😉
@kranzkrone It's quite apparent you're using an LLM to generate concern troll replies. It's incoherent and lacks actual substance. We're not going to be interacting with a text generator someone has directed to waste our time and energy.
If you don't want us banning your instance and making a public post asking everyone else to do the same then remove both of these AI generated replies and stop bothering us.
Here's our policy on AI generated content for discussions:
It's indeed quite apparent that you acting out in the same way like you did in the past when the founder of GrapheneOS had a personal dispute with another somewhat prominent personality of the tech world.
If you don't want me to further investigate your toxic behavior of communication and try to framing me as the bad one, you should definitely thread lightly.
Threatening me with whatever action won't result in deleting my previous posts but instead will strengthen my personal investment in further interactions and maybe legal actions.
Louis Rossmann may would find this interesting to read too.
I'm fine to end it here by agreeing to disagree.
@kranzkrone You've moved on from posting low quality concern trolling which appears to be at least partially generated by an LLM to blatant libel and support for harassment. We haven't framed you for anything. Your replies to our thread make it clear what you're doing.
Louis Rossmann orchestrated harassment towards our founder by making many extraordinarily dishonest claims in a video where he engaged in blatant bullying. Rossmann is openly a Kiwi Farms user and is the one who involved them.
any chance that we'll have Google wallet support?
since the bootloader will trust the grapheneos keys I can't imagine why would safetynet and the other play protect mechanisms won't pass attestation (for all intents and purposes graphene would be indistinguishable from the stock Motorola image)
if that's the case I'll buy the device the moment it comes out...
I heard rumours that GrapheneOS will ship in phones and it will not be possible to flash another OS.
Is this true?
I tried doing some searching online and I couldnt determine if Pixels have open source firmware? Idk how realistic to hope that these collab devices will have at least source available firmware.
Also, do you know what the expected EOL timeframe for these new devices will be? Can we expect something on par to the Pixel 8? With advancements in hardware security (eg. the development of MTE) is it even worth holding onto a phone for a 7 year lifespan?
Anything regarding headphone jacks and microSD?
Those would be the main reason to branch away from the current wave of Google Pixel phones, at least from an end users perspective.
If I were in your position I'd consider commissioning some kind of Single Board Computer, to satisfy customers who want a tailored device.
(Raspberry Pi et. al. seem to treat DIY pocket computers as an afterthought)
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Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.www.youtube.com
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@GrapheneOS @lumi @alexia well, to be fair, you wrote "it's a lot of work which is meant to be done by the OEM and their hardware partners" (referring to providing mainline branches of the kernel)
grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/…
@stovis It's entirely possible to use a newer kernel branch whether it's an AOSP-based OS or not but it's a lot of work which is meant to be done by the OEM and their hardware partners to keep providing updates to the device for more than a year or so. Linux kernel LTS branches are back to only 2 years of support so there's an expectation that vendors are moving to a new kernel branch. Most OEMs and Linux distributions aren't doing it but it's what the Linux project expects.
@GrapheneOS @lumi @alexia
> Okay, but that's how we see it.
GrapheneOS is a great project, I don't understand why you have to see enemies everywhere.
> Android Open Source Project and GrapheneOS work fine with mainline kernels and drivers
Which is what I wrote in my last sentence.
Jetzt ist die Katze aus dem Sack! #GrapheneOS wird mit #Motorola zusammenarbeiten. Ich bin sehr gespannt!
RE: grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/…
We're happy to announce a long-term partnership with Motorola. We're collaborating on future devices meeting our privacy and security standards with official GrapheneOS support.motorolanews.com/motorola-thre…
Motorola News | Motorola's new partnership with GrapheneOS
Motorola announces three new B2B solutions at MWC 2026, including GrapheneOS partnership, Moto Analytics and more.marreroc (Motorola's Official Global Blog)
Steinberg gibt Audio-Schnittstellen ASIO und VST unter Open-Source-Lizenzen frei
Software-Entwickler können die Audio-Schnittstellen künftig in Open-Source-Software einbinden. Das öffnet den Weg für eine breitere Nutzung unter Linux.
heise.de/news/Steinberg-gibt-A…
#Audio #GNUGPL #IT #OpenSource #news
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Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC e djpanini reshared this.
Cool. Aber wie konnte dann bisher Asio4All möglich und kostenlos sein, wenn Steinberg scheinbar ein Recht über ASIO hatte? (Und wieso geht das überhaupt bei so einer grundlegenden Technologie?)
de.asio4all.org/about/
Danke an Asio4all. Ohne das könntre ich ohne ext. Hardware die einen eigenen ASIO-Treiber mitbringt nicht vernünftig (=latenzarm) Musik machen. Nutze ich seit ca. 20 Jahren. ❤️
(S.a. heise.de/download/product/asio… )
#asio #asio4all #steinberg #daw
ASIO4ALL ergänzt Rechner mit Onboard-Soundchips oder Einsteiger-Soundkarten um einen Treiber für das Audiotransfer-Protokoll ASIO.www.heise.de
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chaosmonaut e djpanini reshared this.
Gioca con le parole “cuore” e “arte” ed è fatta dai disegni dei bambini della Striscia, raccolti dal palestinese Mohammed Timraz e dall’irlandese Féile Butler.Anna Maria Selini (Altreconomia)
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tentapes team X Heart Of Gaza.
Ieri sera abbiamo avuto il piacere di partecipare all'inaugurazione della mostra Heart of Gaza presso la biblioteca comunale di Spinea con una breve performance musicale.
È stato molto toccante leggere le storie dei bambini di Gaza e confrontarsi con la realtà delle loro lotte quotidiane e delle loro sofferenze. Nessuno di noi può immaginare cosa si provi a vivere in quel modo. Nessun bambino dovrebbe mai subire tutto questo. Ecco perché il lavoro di Mohamed Timraz è così importante.
#palestina #heartofgaza #gaza #tentapes
tentapes team X Heart Of Gaza.
Last night we had the pleasure of taking part in the opening of the Heart of Gaza exhibition at the Spinea municipal library with a short musical performance.
It was very moving to read the stories of the children in Gaza and to get a reality check on their daily struggles and suffering. None of us can imagine what it feels like to live like that. No child should have to go through these things.That is why the work of Mohamed Timraz is so important.
#gaza reshared this.
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chiaraingrafica, The Kimchi Demon, Ed Tamarro & Antifascista, Andrea Tridico - TridiComics, bupig, Alex 🐘, djpanini, Alfonso, Rinaldo Giorgetti, [AF]2050 e Pinocchio reshared this.
Disegni meravigliosi!
Una cosa... tu come consiglieresti ad un artista che vuole tentare (di nuovo) di studiare il gestuale per le pose?
30100 EP è il mio primo disco rap! Ed è pazzesco quanto amore stia ricevendo da questa scena. Tanti repost, tanti consigli, tante persone che non conoscevo che mi scrivono di continuare a fare rap. Venendo dal mondo della musica elettronica questo è veramente una novità per me.. Ai miei amici dj e producer (house-techno-ukg etc) del veneziano dico: tiratevela meno e supportate la scena locale che alla fine sarà quella che forse vi salverà... Bless
Ascolta l'album 30100 EP di tentapes su #SoundCloud
on.soundcloud.com/hRKFyTJK8nnQ…
Giacomo Tesio likes this.
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Queen of Argyll, Clockwork ☃️✒️, Oloturia, Enrico Zini, Giacomo Tesio, Ciccio dell’Oca, Domenico De Treias, djpanini e Raffy_Baffy reshared this.
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Stati Uniti, agenti dell'ICE uccidono una donna a Minneapolis nel corso di una massiccia operazione anti-migranti.Redazione (Lettera43)
djpanini reshared this.
Better late than never!
tentapes.bandcamp.com/album/ru…
Rising from the dark waters of the lagoon comes the sound of Dj Nap.
Deeply inspired by the post-dubstep sound of the late 2000s, the EP captures the anger, romanticism, and melancholy of a twenty-something in the 2020s. Like memories dissolving into the Venetian fog after a boat ride back from an unreachable party.
djpanini reshared this.
🐧 Dai comandi classici alle ricerche più avanzate, il terminale Linux ha sempre l’arma giusta.
Ecco i comandi indispensabili per cercare qualsiasi cosa sul tuo sistema Linux 😎👇
Su Linux puoi trovare tutto: file, percorsi, pattern di testo con risultati alla velocità della luce.
🔍 Trovi tutte le infografiche dedicate a Linux nel gruppo fediLUG:
👉 
@linux@diggita.com
#UnoLinux #Linux #comandi #terminale #sysadmin #devops #opensource #UnoOpen #FediLUG
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FediLUG Italia - il Linux User Group ufficiale del fediverso, fabrizio, nextredblog, Magnetismo, Open Source Italia, Anomaly e djpanini reshared this.
Fedi MTV is coming... This Xmas! Fuck yeah.
"It’s late capitalism, and artists have nowhere to go. Where’s left? Where can people discover new, risk-taking art? ...
We need a real human place for real human video art. So, we made one."
#music #musicVideo #musicDiscovery #mtv #fediMTV #TIBtv
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mirlo.space, Matthew, william.maggos, Stefan Bohacek, Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC, djpanini, wakest likes your bugs ⁂, ana veronica e Eddie J reshared this.
I daren’t edit the post again… but if you’re an artist and want to submit your video, there’s still time!
Here is the form:
portal-6579606279.portal.massi…
Roberta Fidora reshared this.
definitely, open hopefully forever!
I love that there’s an extra reason to make music videos now. Looking forward to seeing yours 🫡💜
Hi — we’re running a small, stable self-hosted setup and wondered if it’d be useful for us to act as a relay for Fedi MTV.
We can pull a single RTMP/SRT stream and re-serve it (EU-based), probably good for ~20–50 concurrent viewers to start.
Best-effort / volunteer, no expectations — just offering bandwidth and resilience if it helps.
If that’s of interest, let us know what ingest format you prefer and we can test quietly
@alan are you running Owncast as well? Just wondering how we could possibly share the load (a few more of us have servers too!) … do you mean to redirect some viewers to different sites, and all ingest the same RTMP stream?
There might be a way to merge chats in the future as well…
Tagging our admin: @limebar
Yeah, re: the chat window. My “fruity” message is just normal HTML in between the two iframes (video + chat) — I didn’t tweak anything in the iframe itself, and the Owncast server is just at defaults
Fingers crossed the mention of fruit didn’t shock the chat window into retreat 🤞🏻🍒
This is awesome. I'm sending to my folk music friends, some of my unwarranted feedback at first glance:
-Fedi mtv is a better name than indie beat fm
-colour code/font choices are somewhat uncool
The design overall feels outdated. Idk if it's owncast itself or this specific project
#FediMTV is coming *tomorrow*!
Check the thread 👆
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Appunti Personali..
... the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard..
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"Meta spies on us and then allows predators to use that surveillance to destroy our lives for the same reason that your dog licks its balls: because they can."
Thank You @pluralistic
mamot.fr/@pluralistic/11551482…
Reuters' Jeff Horwitz analyzes leaked memos that reveal that: 10% of Meta revenue comes from scam ads, and; Meta knows it, and; decided not to stop about it, because; the fines for facilitating life-destroying fraud are less than the revenue from helping destroy users' lives:reuters.com/investigations/met…
-
If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:
pluralistic.net/2025/11/08/fae…
1/
djpanini reshared this.
Source: foxes-in-love.tumblr.com/post/…
Copyright: foxesinlove.net
Hypolite Petovan likes this.
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The Sun unleashing a spectacular solar flare and coronal mass ejection, captured by the Solar Dynamics Observatory spacecraft.
Credit: SDO/NASA Goddard
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Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch) , ⚾️🤌☕🤌KinmenRisingProject-🇹🇼🇺🇦, Roni Rolle Laukkarinen e djpanini reshared this.
Ricordiamo che su Poliverso non sono ammessi post che esprimano odio o disprezzo verso categorie di persone: questo tipo di contenuti determina la sospensione immediata!
Si possono esprimere opinioni di ogni genere, anche in controtendenza rispetto al comune sentire, ma ci sono delle regole da rispettare.
Queste sono le regole di Poliverso:
0) L'utente deve conoscere la fediquette, una netiquette del fediverso
1) L'utente che utilizza Poliverso deve sentirsi più felice, più sereno, più aperto alla discussione e più fiducioso nell'intelligenza e buona fede altrui. In caso contrario è meglio che cambi istanza
2) Poliverso è parte del fediverso e vuole continuare a farne parte: ogni atteggiamento ostile o comportamento tossico verso utenti di altre istanze comporterà la sospensione
3) E' vietata la pubblicazione di contenuti illegali, contenuti disturbanti (senza contrassegnarli come sensibili), spam, comportamenti e discorsi d'odio e disinformazione (trucchetto per individuare la disinformazione: se prima di postare un contenuto la prima domanda che vi ponete è "Come posso sapere se è disinformazione?", allora è disinformazione)
4) Sono consentiti account istituzionali, commerciali o promozionali, purché la comunicazione avvenga in italiano e non sia equiparabile allo spam
5) Friendica non dispone di un sistema di moderazione: per minimizzare i rischi di sistema, gli utenti che non seguono l'amministratore o che non gli rispondono tempestivamente, potrbbero essere espulsi dalla piattaforma.
6) Se vuoi dare un'occhiata alla timeline locale, guarda qui. Se non ti piace, puoi iscriverti altrove (qui puoi esportare il tuo account per portarlo in un'altra istanza)
Esiste una #fediquette?
La risposta breve è sì, ma abbiamo creato un post per spiegarlo meglio.
E ricordiamoci sempre che la parola #fediverso contiene le radici delle due parole più importanti per la socialità universale: alleanza e diversità.
#Netiquetteinformapirata.it/2022/03/22/fe…
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"There are several possible dates you might pick, but for me it will always be September 5th 2014 - when I committed the first sketch of a specification I called ActivityPump and pushed it to Github."
Happy 11th birthday, ActivityPub!
akko.erincandescent.net/object…
#ActivityPub #fediverse #anniversary
The obvious choice for ActivityPub’s birthday would be the 23rd of January 2018 - the day it was annointed as a W3C recommendation. That doesn’t seem quite right though - its not as if the spec came into existence in any sense upon that date. In fact, Mastodon implemented it before thne.There are several possible dates you might pick, but for me it will always be September 5th 2014 - when I committed the first sketch of a specification I called ActivityPump and pushed it to Github
It wouldn’t be until November that I actually submitted (a revised and enhanced version of) that draft to the working group, but even then I had the very nucleus of the specification written down.
Happy 10th birthday, ActivityPub. 🍰
Here be a first draft · w3c/activitypub@f510032
Contribute to w3c/activitypub development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
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I have a printed version on my wall 😀
It says in the lower-left corner that this not a map but a work of art.
You might want to credit Sabine Rethore - sabine-rethore.net/
Giancarlo Dessì
in reply to Gabriele Marcosanti • • •djpanini
in reply to Gabriele Marcosanti • •